₦airaland Forum

onetrack:
He is not talking about atheists here, he is talking about Christians.

Indeed! Especially current atheists (Theophobes) who were once Christians!

ebamma:
the Egyptian first borns, he killed through Moses, don't think so,
There are so many others too, that are on the other side of the fence,
The kids killed by Elisha for calling him baldy, and the numerous tribes he helped Israel defeat in wars .

This is one-sided. Did the Egyptians kill Israel babies? Yes He defeated them but what of when He, in judgement after several warnings, had to defeat Israel through Babylon, Assyria etc

ebamma:
I'm i the only one that finds the 'in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god passage silly and lacking in meaning?,
This will even make more sense,
'in the beginning was a dog, and the dog was with god, and the dog was god.

Alright God loves you so much,

vooks:
Second point Muafrika2


Remember, I'm following YOUR (and Scholar8200's) definition of righteousness as CONDUCT, behavior that mirrors God's character. Since God never sins, if you purport to possess God's character, and you go in and sin, then you don't possess His character!

While you overlook all the emphasis I made on Life and expression thereof as the flesh is mortified by the Spirit? this is not too fair.

He hanged himself , died, bloated and afterwards the carcass fell off the tree and burst due to the accumulation of fluids in the suspended corpse. Have you seen one who tripped, fell and burst like a baloon?

HIbreed:
Even the angels are existing in the form of God, spirit.

Now that place is not talking about spirit! So would you say the devil is also in the form of God? NO!!! It refers to that which is peculiar to God and Him alone!!!

Well if you make the accusation of Legalism, what part of the NT has been contravened thus far? State it and in clear times and with Bible references . (without the latter I will take whatever is said as your opinion and leave it at that).

vooks:
God help you with what, you ALREADY have the righteousness of God, the very character of scholar8200 is God's!

Well, this is God's expectation when we receive His Grace, this is what it should produce in us :

15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:15,16

And that happens as we receive grace for grace and move from glory to glory being renewed in our mind. That is why Paul said this after he said he wanted to be found in Christ having His Righteousness:

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Phil. 3:13-15

Is this pursuit optional? NO

(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Phil 3:18,19

Stay Blessed.

vooks:
Dear Nairalanders,
Scholar8200 & Muafrika2 have assured me that if God possesses any character, one needs to look no further than in in their lives to see this character manifest. These are righteous folks

That is the Divine purpose just as the Father was fully revealed in the Son:


For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren
Romans 8:29

It is a Gift of God's Grace that we be made partakers of the Divine Nature and we partake by faith. But of course, we grow in Grace meaning there will always be greater heights as we are transformed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of God.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2Peter 3:18

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord
2 Corinthians 3:18

May God help us, Amen.

vooks:
Bro this is ETERNAL LIFE not a lifestyle. Wake up

And what is Eternal Life? A quality of life or a quantity sans end? And when do we receive Eternal Life? At death or now?

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin’s dominion) through His [[g]resurrection] life.
Romans 5:10 (AMP)

The highlighted is my focus.

{one thing about these discussions is that God help us to press further in their practical realities, Amen.}

vooks:
Excuse me, exactly WHAT is received? Good manners?
Jesus died so you can have better manners and you receive better manners from him?

Mr Scholar8200, are you righteous? Do you have the righteousness of Christ?

What is received: Life.

31 but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:31

vooks:
It is honestly childish denying your own posts

Once again, are you better at keeping the law?

Just be kind enough to show me where I advocated keeping the law.

vooks:
And the question is , this 'life' is dos and don'ts?

Do you have the righteousness of Christ mr Scholar8200?

Yes.

michaelwestern:
Please, do you keep all the commandments in the old testament?

In the NT, the question should be what progress are you making in walking in the Spirit? Because that is the only way we fulfil the righteousness of the law. Romans 8:4.

vooks:
Righteousness of Christ which is BY FAITH is a bunch of dos and don'ts?

It is a Life expressed through faith and depending on the Indwelling Spirit. (The Fruit of the Spirit is the outworking of that which He works in us)

vooks:
That 'receiving and manifestation' is behavior modification which takes human effort. How is it a gift?

Because it is received. And effort here is more of watchfulness to ensure that we have not fallen from the faith and/or grace and this calls for regular self-examination.

vooks:
That is a statement on itself capable of being examined by itself. Whatever else you said does not add nothing to it. Holy Spirit helps you keep the Law is your point. Paul kept the Law without the Holy Spirit and without Christ and he fled all these only to keep the law again? Are you serious?


You spoke of KEEPING the Law not the righteousness being fulfilled. Do you know the difference between KEEPING and FULFILLING?

Now where did I say that?

Romans 8:1-4 (ESV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, [size=14pt]who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit[/size].

1. There is no condemnation
2 observe the contrast between Spirit of LIFE and the law of SIN & DEATH...life in the Spirit vs sin & death
3. The righteous requirement of the Law is death to all who break it, who sin. This is what Christ condemned in the flesh', and once condemned nobody condemns you.

No condemnation if we walk in the Spirit.Further below it says we will reap the wages of sin, if we walk in the flesh (Romans 8:13)

vooks:
Because it concerns me. If you can't stand by what you post, then don't post.

Then it will be fair to consider the whole post and not just the part.

Are you better at keeping the Law?

Would you repeat this same question to the Inspirer of Paul when he wrote this:

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

Behaviour modification? Rather, what I see is the receiving and manifestation of a Life while we witness the mortifying of the old and the renewal of the mind, by the Spirit.

Muafrika2:
Indeed, and for Christians, If you ever reach a place where you are not feeling the change, be very careful. This scripture has been a guide to me for years.

When you think you stand, watch out lest you fall (someone will have to remind me where it becomes is 1 Corinth 10:12)

Very correct, that is why Paul said to examine ourselves.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Corinth 13:5

Agreed. And there are very vulnerable Christians who will never learn how to walk with God because of this notion that Christianity is a free ride.

And we become slaves to God. Bond servants. And a good servant will definitely seek to please his/her master.

Indeed and that not by struggling or trying but by the Grace which He so freely gives to the willing!!!

cloudgoddess:
Why not Krishna?
https://sim03.in.com/366f08fd86f512e061c76efee7ef6d9a_ft_xl.jpg

The Supreme Being Krishna has been around longer. Since around 1000 BC. Whereas Christian God only showed up around 300 AD. Personally, I would choose Krishna, since Krishna has over a thousand years more experience than Christian God.

Krishna is the Indian version of the Semiramis lie which she invented after Nimrod died.

Of course she ,like her offsprings, had to STEAL an extant, much awaited promise of GOD commonly known to all before the Great dispersion.

The Egyptians had theirs too.

HIbreed:
if Jesus is of the same equality with God, why did he directed all the glory.To God.

Answer:
Philippians 2:5 - 11 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied himself, [size=14pt]taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men[/size];
and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.[/b]

You asked a question and quoted a passage that answers you.

These passages you quoted:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.

John 7:16 Jesus therefore answered them and said, My teaching is not mine, but his that sent me.

Were spoken after the Word became flesh.

HIbreed:
Jesus affirmed clearly that the Father(God) is superior to himself. This thread is baseless as its a digression from what the bible teaches. Now can you elaborate on what apostle Paul was trying to say here. Remain blessed

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Bro, consider this passage and answer the following question:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 2:22

1. As per the passage you quoted, was that so before the creation of Adam?

2. The arrangement in that verse you quoted became so because the Word became flesh, the Second Adam, for redemptive purposes. Yes or No?

3. Phil 2 shows that the Son became flesh and took upon Him the form of a Servant, could this verse not have been speaking in that term?

4. The verse I quoted, would it be right to take that verse and either:
a. Claim to have found Peter contradicting the Word; or
b. Establish that Jesus was an ordinary Man approved by God just like Elijah, No more, no less?
choose (a) or (b) or both and give reasons.

5. Why did the Father call (by the hand of Isaiah) the Son, the Mighty God? or David in Spirit called Him Lord? Or Isaiah saw the Lord (Pre-Incarnate Christ) and next Isaiah heard was,"who shall I send and who will go for Us" why not Me?

Muafrika2:
Vooks, Scholar8200 you guys have settled on the fact that grace is unmerited. Now we move on to the next question as posed by Scholar8200



This is the source of confusion for the extremist grace peddlers out there. Forget the dictionary here and lets dissect the scripture for what grace generally and specifically entails.

I believe we can tell that by enumerating the components of the favour, the manifold (multifaceted) grace or free gifts. The first, we all agree is forgiveness. ...

Second, salvation. Of course not merited because there are indeed men called to be vessels of wrath;

Romans 9:22 |
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

We do all agree that the Spirit of God, Christ and the fruits and gifts of the Spirit of God are graces, right?

The powers of God?

These are the scriptures by which we know that all the above are gifts. Unmerited. But does that mean that everybody can have them? That is the real question.



Gifts of God.
These are without repentance(He does not take them away at any time). They are:
His Son (Jn 3:16,Jn 4:10)
His Spirit (Acts 8:20)
These three are one.

Due to the nature of God, whatever he gives is not an end to itself. So His gifts give on:

HIS SON
Gifts of Jesus
Gift of grace(Rom 5:15), given for our justification(verse 16)
Gift of righteousness(Romans 5:17)
Gift of grace
This are gifts that come through the work of the grace of God in us. They are for ministry, enumerated in (Eph 4:11); Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, teachers.
Fruits of righteousness(2 Cor 9:10, Mat 3:8, Phil 1:11)
Fruits of the Holy Spirit are also the fruits of righteousness. They are sown in peace(james 3:18)

HIS SPIRIT
Fruits of the Holy Spirit(Gal 5:22)
These are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against which there is no law(and therefore, no snare, which means they are the best weaponry against the works of wickedness.)
Gifts of the Spirit
These are also the gifts of grace:
Prophesy(1st Cor 14:1, 1st Cor 12:10)
Speaking in unknown tongues (1st Cor 14:2, and their interpretation(v.10)
Wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Christ(Eph 1:17, Ex 28:3)
Exellence and knowledge(1st Cor 8:12, Ex 28:3)
Faith(1 cor 8:9)
Healings(1st cor 8:9)
Working of miracles(v.10)
Discernment of spirits(10)

GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
These gifts keep giving on. The best of which are:
Fruits of the gift of knowledge of Jesus (1 pet 1:5-
To faith, add virtue, to virtue, knowledge, to Knowledge, temperance, to temperance, patience, to patience, Godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness, charity.
Gifts of wisdom(Prov 4:9)wisdom has fruits(James 3:17)
These are ornaments of grace, or a crown of glory. Remember the personality of Jesus is wisdom(1 cor 1:30)Its the gifts come to full circle. Its good with an inheritance, and by it there is profit there is profit to them that see the sun.(Ecc 7:11)
The gifts/fruits of wisdom are:
Riches(prov 14:24)
Honor(prov 4:18)
Multiply your days(prov 2:11)
Rule and inheritance(prov 17:2)
Increase sorrow(Ecc 1:18, 6:4,7,7:7)(this is because of the increase in knowledge of the perversion of justice by the sons of darkness.)
Wisdom is a defence(Ecc 7:12)
Strengthens (Ecc 9:18)
Makes their face to shine, gives boldness(Ecc 8:1)
Heard more than the fool(Ecc 9:17

The list is by no means exhaustive.

Thanks a lot!!!

Indeed, can all these and many more be received without faith? And when received do we remain just the same way we came? Or do we change only in a positional or judicial sense? GOD FORBID!

We call ourselves Pentecostals, claim the Baptism with the Spirit, expect manifestations of the Spirit as 1 Corinth 14 shows but overlook or dispense with the manifestation of the Spirit as Romans 8 and Galatians 5:22-25 shows!

In other words the gifts must manifest(perhaps we love the show) but the fruits are a passive positional deposit (because the flesh must be mortified and self denied)?! We tell the seeker of the Spirit's baptism that there must be manifestations by the Spirit but we tell the new convert that (in spite of the Spirit that indwells him through faith) that we must remain slaves to sin!!!

It is this disparity that is being addressed.

Both should be balanced.

vooks:
From your post;

Again,you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

But that is not the only sentence there? Why selecting that alone?

As Romans 8 says, we fulfil the righteous demands of the law when we walk in the Spirit, but that is not all there is to Romans 8. Kindly consider the whole post and not just that sentence (evidently edited)

vooks:
In short, you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

Pls Where did you get that from the post you quoted?

malvisguy212:
is like this muslim is becoming a jehovah witness. It was the jehovah witness bible translated "the word was a God".

Indeed, or perhaps he thinks all Christians welcome all translations blindly.

vooks:
Bro,
It is UNMERITED. You got that right. What is the difference between a NT Saint like yourself and an OT Saint like Job? Are you BETTER at obeying God than them?

A NT saint is justified by faith in Christ and receives the Indwelling of the Spirit, quickened by the Latter, he is enabled (Grace) to please God in the deepest sense of the word.

A NT saint is born of the Spirit, is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ, Is Indwelt and empowered by the Spirit (enabling him to fulfil the righteousness of the law which law is written on the table of his heart by the same Person Who wrote it on tablets of stone-the Spirit, only that this time the Writer indwells him as a Power and Revealer of the Life of He that fulfilled the Law).

The OT saints (most of who were pleasing to God on account of their faith in Him) were rather limited as a result of the hardness of heart and that is why the high point of the NT is a transformation that begins from the heart and manifests in the life.

vooks:
Regardless of what 'favor entail', is it MERITED in any way? Is it earned?

Like I said before, it is neither merited nor earned. But then, when received, what does it entail?

promisechuks:
Leave the pharisee christian!

The guy hasn't known that the topic of this thread that he started is a kind of blasphemy and can take him in an express way to hell, because when grace is not unmerited, it is merit. Forget about the way his beating round the bush.

Perhaps you need to re-read the Op.

That's how they go around preaching contradiction but I thank for the wave of the pure gospel going round the world.

Noted.

Just see how contradicting these statements are;

1. Grace is not an unmerited favour, but it is freely given.

That's because you did not discern what the thread is trying to address.

2. No works can merit the gift of eternal life but you have to live rightly to gain eternal life and make heaven.

Quote this directly as stated by me

3. Jesus was condemned for our sins, but after accepting the lordship of christ you can be condemned of your sins; then what is the essence of christ's condemnation over sin?

Because all is appropriated by faith and we CAN fall from the faith if we do not take heed.

4. Living above the law(grace) means to live more rightly than he that is under the law; yet the pharisee-christian cannot keep the 10 commandment and 630+ laws and do extra as a person who really lives above law by right living.

Judgest thou? What then does the New Covenant promise of God writing His laws in our heart mean to you?

5. After accepting the gift of eternal life, you have to maintain it with your right living; please whose righteousness can maintain what his righteousness couldn't earn?

Kindly show me where I said that.

6. The law was not abolished but we are not under the law; please can law(moses) and grace(jesus) co-exist together?

Now answer, did Jesus fulfil the law or abolished it? Quote relevant references.

7. Jesus; "whosoever that shall believe in me shall not perish." Then they say; if you only believe without doing the right thing you cannot be saved, let alone going to heaven but eternal life is a free gift and unmerited favour that is based on faith."

And faith worketh by love meaning no love means no faith! "If any man has not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of His" etc Ever found these in Scripture?

8. jesus was punished for the sins of the whole world, but sinners can be punished for their sins in this day of salvation.

Quote where this was written so that you can get more clarifications

9. When you are saved and do something bad, you are unsaved, but all our sins have being forgiven; so now God is a joker? So God can play injustice by punishing us for the sins he punished jesus for?

He that shall endure to the end shall be saved. What does that mean? We are not of them that drawback unto perdition... What does this imply?

10: col 2"....ALL our sins where forgiven" but the all there doesn't include all the sins of our entire life, but all your sins till the day of your salvation; please, can there be all without a complete past, present and future? Is ALL = past - present - future?

Be sure to quote where I said this and I will explain.

11. By his stripes we WERE healed of our diseases(past, present and future) but by his death we are only forgiven of our past and not present and future till we ask for forgiveness.

Taking this issue, if one became sick again and does not appropriate by an active faith this Provision does he get healed

12. There is no more condemnation to them that believe in christ, but the holyspirit convicts and tells us we are going to hell because of our bad we did; so the holyspirit is responsible for the condemnation of a believer. But at the same time the devil is the accuser of the brethen; please in this statement, what is the difference between the devil and the holyspirit?

You are treading thin ice here!!! Why didnt you finish that passage that says there is no condemnation ONLY for those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh??

I think I should stop here.

there are misrepresentations here; only God knows if they are inadvertent (needlessly) or deliberate.

promisechuks:
Please, I challenge you to bring up your meaning of grace, for us to know whether it is more than unmerited favour.

Now when you say unmerited favour, what does that favour entail?(Answer using Scriptural references to back your points).