₦airaland Forum

newnature:
To interpret Lazarus and the rich man as representative of what will happen to the saved and the unsaved immediately after death, means to milk the parable for lessons foreign to its original intent. If the narrative is an actual description of the intermediate state, then it must be true in fact and consistent in detail. But if the parable is figurative, then only the moral truth to be conveyed need concern us.

Not when the scenarios used has many literal cross references all over the Bible!

newnature:
The book of Revelations is not for the body of Christ, don't go there. Because after the Body of Christ is lifted off the earth, the whole period of the Day of Yahweh is called the final meeting of the ages, or the Greek word “sunteleia”; but, the crisis in which it culminates is called the end of the age, or the Greek word “telos.” These two Greek words are rendered “end” in the New Testament, but the use of these two words must be carefully distinguished.

The Letters were to the 7 CHURCHES. Who else is the BODY OF CHRIST BUT THE CHURCH?

ANd why does the Bookend with the SPIRIT and THE BRIDE SAYING COME? WHO IS THE BRIDE?

There is great danger when we put the Bible aside!!!

newnature:
The notion of the eternal torment of the wicked can only be defended by accepting the Greek view of the immortality and indestructibility of the soul, a concept which is foreign to Scripture.

This is what happens when we replace the Scriptures with human reasoning.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41

pls answer:

What would be the final end of the devil and his angels? (Remember spirits dont die)

Besides, the witch of endor purported to call up the spirit not the body of Samuel.

newnature:
To the best of our ability, all we can do is walk worthy of the vocation that belongs to us, because God has freely given it to us, we have been justified freely, sanctified in Jesus Christ, how should we be conducting ourselves. We should conduct ourselves in a manner conducive to the job that God’s given us, it is our ambassadorship of the message of reconciliation.

Watch how you use chapter and versus, because you are mixing the programs together, because the Israelites have an earthly hope, they were promised the earth forever.

Pls where did I do that?

newnature:
But Remember the carnal Corinthians are guilty of the things Paul listed for them, but that did not reduce, reverse or remove from them their sanctified identity that already belonged to them in their union with the risen, glorified son of God.

But remember Jesus Himself said to some to repent in Revelations? In that passage, Paul after listing out those things said," of such WERE {past tense} (not ARE) some of you but ye are washed...etc" MEaning after they were washed, they did not continue therein!

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
revelation 3:1,2,4

If we defile our Garments, we may make many claims but before Him we are dead!!!

Dead to sin, we now have a brand new identity, those who would die in their sins, were those who would continue to have their identity in Adam, Adam in rebellion, to die with that identification intact. We no longer have that identification once we believe Paul’s good news, now we have a brand new identity.
[quote]dead to sin that we might become servants to righteousness and the FRUIT _Holiness will characterise our lives.
Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[quote]Grace that results in peace with God, understanding the grace of God which has brought peace with God, is the foundation of every believer’s joy in this age. In the midst of Paul’s troubling circumstances, he was thanking God, he was thinking what God accomplished for him through Jesus Christ.

And was daily expressed through him by the Power of the Spirit that mortifies our flesh and quickens us with the Resurrection Life!

newnature:
Just reasoning Paul, no need for chapter and versus. Because those of us who are bent on satisfying the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life fall into a snare, in that we become addicted to the manner in which we satisfy those lusts. Paul does not talk about God pushing a bad button and having something bad happen to us or God taking our life.

Without the scriptures it is easy to inadvertently or deliberately leave out words, phrases, contexts, succeeding verses that would not agree with the point we are trying to reason out!

Paul does talk about when we pursue the satisfaction of the sinful lusts of the flesh, it is not ruination God is bringing on sinful believers, but ruination sinning believers are bringing upon themselves.

But do you remember Paul, by Inspiration, said the end of such 'believers' is destruction? (Phil 3)

newnature:
People oftentimes base their salvation and their relationship to God on their emotions, from Paul’s perspective these people are walking after the flesh

Can you pls back up your points with scriptures?


What were the works of the flesh mentioned in Galatians 5?

promisechuks:
EXACTLY!!!!

He took the entire sin(past, present and future), that means ALL. We are the sons of God, not because we live rightly, but because our debt has been paid COMPLETELY.

WE OWE NO DEBT!!!

We are made sons by His Grace. What fruit does God then expect from sons (by the same Grace):

15 that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that [size=14pt]I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain[/size].
Philippians 2:15,16

As per the amplified, Paul knew if they did not walk in newness of life, they had no record in Heaven and he would have laboured in vain.


Do You have this in your Bible:

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:46

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

And was Peter a pharisee when he thus wrote:

3 according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 [size=14pt]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.[/size]

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:3-11

Verse 3 and 4 tells us we have His Divine Power and are made Partakers of His Divine Nature (GRACE) and the following verse shows that these Gifts of Grace MUST manifest practically in our lives else we are reprobates. Vs9

promisechuks:
your problem is that you are too self-righteous.

But you know what I will be creating a new thread on grace to expound more on this issue.

Show me one self-righteous statement in ALL my post that contradicts the NT.

promisechuks:
I wouldn't have replied this comment, but your last question has made me to.

You are passing judgement on a sister who died in abortion, while samson who died by suicide was counted for righteousness.

Man, you better stop all this judgement!

I will answer you with a question.

Why was samson counted for righteousness, despite the fact he committed suicide?

Judges 16:30; "Samson said, “Let me die with the
Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might,
and down came the temple on the rulers and all
the people in it. Thus he killed many more when
he died than while he lived."

It is just like; I was kidnapped, by the boko haram and while there I got hold on a bomb, put it in my body after prayer and blow up myself together with them and despite that I was accounted for faith and made perfect by God.

Thank God that the scriptures clearly shows that almost all men of God sinned and most of them was not accounted for asking for forgiveness, but still made heaven

That was a suicidal act, but was accounted for righteousness.

Hebrew 11:32-40;
32 And what more shall I say? For time would
fail me to tell of f Gideon, Barak, SAMSON ,
i Jephthah, of j David and k Samuel and the
prophets—33 who through FAITH conquered
kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 m quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, n became mighty in war, n put foreign armies to flight. 35 o Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 q They were stoned, they were sawn in two, 1 r they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated—38 of whom the world was not worthy—t wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, u though commended through their faith, u did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, THAT APART FROM US THEY SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT."

How can a man that committed suicide be made perfect?

God justifying samson who committed suicide and was made perfect by grace.


I laugh at people who pass judgement on people, because they are the ones that will be the victims of them, if care is not taken.


My friend, under grace, sin is not a problem all you need is to believe and you will see it loosing hold of it on it's own and not you trying to merit it by right living.

Kindly highlight the judgement I passed.

Samson committed suicide

You hastily make accusations that you cannot prove.

promisechuks:
I have explained vs7

11. "......RECKON ye also yourselves dead to sin...."

Now let's analyse:
The bible is written in greek, so let's explain the word "Reckon" as used in the greek bible.

Reckon in greek is "Logizomai"-Verb meaning: to take into account.

Now, "....RECKON(take into account- faith) ye also yourselves dead to sin...."
Start to believe, start to account, start to see yourself as dead [size=14pt]to the cause[/size] of sin(no condemnation), even when you do something bad, still see yourself as dead to sin. No condition is added to that. This is a continuous taking-into-account exercise by believing that you are dead to the cause of sin, for christ's sake. By so doing, you see yourself yielding as servant to righteousness.

That is YOUR addition! And the statement that follow your conclusion based on your addition to that verse!
Did you not read what being a servant to righteousness produces-Holiness!!!! When you were a servant to sin, sins characterised your life. Now when you are made free and become servant to righteousness what should characterise your life

That is talking about faith in what I explained concerning verse 7.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

The greek word for yield is: anadidómi; meaning to give up, hand over.
The greek word for reign is: basileia; meaning kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, kingdom.
The greek word for let is:aphiémi; meaning release,
permit.

[size=14pt]Seeing that when you sin[/size], you are not condemn for christ's sake, don't LET(permit) it(sin) REIGN(have authority, rule, have kingdom) in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lust thereof.

Another addition by YOU to suit your position. Even the statement you created is neither coherent with itself nor with other parts of the Scriptures!!!

To permit something to have kingdom/authority involves voluntarily taking a decision to HAND OVER to it.

Meaning we have the power to resist SIN!

Rom 7:7-end "What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful?
Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have
known what sin was had it not been for the law.
For I would not have known what coveting really
was if the law had not said, “You shall not
covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity
afforded by the commandment, produced in me
every kind of coveting. For apart from the law,
sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the
law; but when the commandment came, sin
sprang to life and I died. I found that the very
commandment that was intended to bring life
actually brought death. For sin, seizing the
opportunity afforded by the commandment,
deceived me, and through the commandment
put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and
the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Did that which is good, then, become death
to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that
sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is
good to bring about my death, so that through
the commandment sin might become utterly
sinful.
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am
unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not
understand what I do. For what I want to do I do
not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I
do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but
it is sin living in me. For I know that good
itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful
nature. For I have the desire to do what is
good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do
the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want
to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I
do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but
it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to
do good, evil is right there with me. For in my
inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see
another law at work in me, waging war against
the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of
the law of sin at work within me. What a
wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from
this body that is subject to death? Thanks be
to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our
Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s
law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law
of sin."

Reading in that passage he commits sin, but when that happens he feels sorry " What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? ". That act of feeling sorry is called "Godly sorrow".

And godly sorrow leads to REPENTANCE and not an acquiescence to a Sin-repent virtuous circle! But a desire for Total Victory!!! And that Victory and Its means was described in Romans 8- walking in the Spirit , being quickened with the Resurrection Life by the Spirit and mortifying the flesh by the Spirit!

The believer who committed the sin(like paul did) is not sorry because he may be condemned to hell fire. No! If so then eternal life is dependent on how we live and therefore is no more of grace/gift but reward for right living. And that is heretic!

That passage was Paul when he was still under the Law that is why he wrote therein as regards the Law etc

They are sorry because they see it as "no, I am tired of living this way

So one can claim to believe and continue living in sin till they ARE TIRED??!!! IS that what you are IMPLYING?

, I am of much value to bring myself so low to fornicate", "though my entire life sin is forgiven, but I suppose not to make myself so devalued to say raca to that person." "Though I am righteous before God for christ's sake, but I need to be improving in my character, not to be something near righteous before God(no, because christ already qualifies me and makes me right
eous before God), but because I am the light and salt of the world, who ought to be an example to others."
You see?

This is serious! Please, does this refer to the grace described in Titus 2:11-14? this is PATHETIC!

And this is what is called repentance, NOT sinner's prayer because his sins has been paid and forgiven once and for all.

People think repentance is sinner's prayer. NOT SO!

In greek bible, repentance means
: metanoia meaning; a change of mind.
Very simple!

It was mosiac pastors that started preaching sinner's prayer as a way of repentance.


The above, according to my explanation is clearly a different case where a kidnapper accepts christ and still stay in the kidnapping business without his conscience judging him and he is happy about it. In that case the person has permitted the sin of kidnapping to become to have kingdom in his body.

And as such, the person is not taking into account(reckoning) that he is dead to the cause of sin. Which makes him live ignorantly out of grace.

You can't be enjoying grace and be enjoying(I mean happily) doing abortion, all being a cultist. Any one like that is not under the grace because the person has taken the decision to permit sin to deal on his body.

Finally, on this ground, I conclude that when a believer who believes and reckons himself as dead to the cause of sin and believes that he has been made free from the guilt, imputation of sin and condemnation, sin, it does not mean that the person has taken a decision to make is have kingdom, in his body, so far the person has godly sorrow and can feel sorry for what he did he is still justified and of grace.

I hope I have clear some air here, as I can.

Finally, kindly read the Gospels and Romans /Ephesians (Iwould have said the Epistles but just keep to those) with an open mind.

The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, [size=15pt]forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration,[/size] politics without God, heaven without hell.”
― William Booth

Very True!!!

KingEbukasBlog:
lmaooo ... that was meant for someone else .

Sorry

Alright.

plaetton:
Imagine if public officers swore to my village Oracle while taking oath of office.
There would be less corruption and more corpses on the evil forest.

Now can you explain what scientific process would be responsible for that.

KingEbukasBlog:
Are you Jehovah witness ?

You do realise that anything short of equality of divinity , power , authority , majesty , glory etc means they are different gods . They are all one and can be addressed collectively - as seen with "Father" - since they are three but one .

No I am not. Of course I agree with the highlighted.

promisechuks:
The problem is not right living, the problem is what happens when a christian sin? Having known that christ was condemned for his sake, will the person be condemned for the sin jesus was condemned for?

Perhaps you can kindly direct this to Peter who said this:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Peter 2:20,21
After we believe , we are called to endure to the end. Jesus is coming for a Church thus described:

that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.Ephesians 5:27

And if a christian sin his reaction will be according to what I said here:

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
2 Corinth 7:9-12

You misunderstand the scripture, that's why you are living a christian life full of contradiction.

Thank you very much. It's your opinion though.

Just answer these questions with bible verse, otherwise will be seen as heresy:
Jesus was condemned for our sake, right?

But we only appropriate this when we believe else the world is automatically saved!(Heresy)

Jesus abolished the law and it was fulfilled in him?

He fulfilled and the righteous demands of the law will also be fulfilled in us who believe and Walk in the Spirit.

If jesus was condemned and punished for our sin, how can we(that believe) be punished for the sins he was punished for?

If we fail to appropriate what He provided!Or if we appropriate but do not abide in the faith by which we received.

If we can be punished for sin after accepting christ, how can you explain the fact that Jesus was used as a sacrifice for sin?

What happened to Ananias and Sapphira? Christ's death was not to change God's attitude to sin but to redeem us from the power of sin thus enabling us to live in Victory

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
titus 2:14
The good works is a FRUIT of Grace received by faith!!!

If the bible clearly states that jesus was made wrath of the sins of the whole world, how can God pour his wrath on us after pouring the same for the same sin on jesus?

If God is a God of justice, how can God punish a sin twice(injustice)?

[size=15pt]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God[/size].
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin
Hebrews 3:12,13

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness
2 Peter 3:18
Judas by transgression fell.


We accessed the Benefits of His Death by Faith.
We have a responsibility to watch and take heed and hold fast in FAITH lest we depart from God and face the judgement of the unbelievers.

promisechuks:
That passage is only talking about handling sin in church.

Though, by grace the person is forgiven, the purpose for that is to discipline the flesh.

To understand more of what that verse means, read rom 5: 11-13 and continue with 6:1-11.

Please, do me a favour by reading verse 11 twice to understand what grace(jesus) is.

11. And SUCH [size=14pt]WERE[/size] SOME OF YOU(you were like what I have said): but ye are WASHED, but you are SANCTIFIED, but you are JUSTIFIED in the name of the lord Jesus, and by the spirit of our God.

But that, they are justified despite what they were doing according to previous verses, does not mean that sin should be promoted in church. So he sets up a way of judging immorality in church as a way to discipline the flesh.

The highlighted shows that those things are in the past and should not be once named among them NOW:

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:3-5

Would you accuse Paul here of advocating right living to enter the Kingdom? Was he not saying the FRUIT of true believing is right living?

promisechuks:
You are misunderstanding it!

Rom 6:7;"For he that is dead is freed from sin"

I will like us to clearly analyse this verse.
Q1: How where we dead to sin? By right living? No! Because a times you still sin, even unknowingly(if it is by right living, please explain). By physical death? No! By spiritual death? No! Then how? We where dead to sin by having FAITH in him(jesus) that was punished, condemned and put to DEATH for our sin." For as he died, we also died with him by faith and not right living. Right living is NOT a proof to being dead to sin, as there are people who are not under christianity, who live more rightly than you can imagine, does it means that they are dead to sin. NO!

ANd when by Faith we died with Him, what follows:

4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin
Romans 6:4-7

If we truly believe and identify, the result is newness of life as a result of the working of the Spirit that raised Jesus working also in us.

What you are saying is indirectly meaning that, when we have not sin, we are dead to sin. And when we sin, we have resurrected IN sin. Then please, proof the death and resurrection of our IN SIN with the bible.

We are dead to sin forever only when we start to BELIEVE in christ's death forever.
Being dead to sin is not all about works but FAITH.

But that faith will reveal itself in newness of life else it is vain.

Q2: after been dead to sin by faith, how are we freed from sin? By flesh(right living)? No! Because even after accepting christ, things like your sexual urges is still very active,

The sexual urge is not sinful!!! Sin starts when we seek to satisfy it by ungodly means!

if you are heading to somewhere important with your car, you may disobey traffic rules(like red light) without even feeling as if you sinned, you may not put on your seat belt and when you see police you fasten it immediately, 2 sins committed; disobedience and hypocrisy.

Bro, these are man made regulations for your good. The only danger in disobeying them is risk of harm to yourself and others. Okay, was Jesus sinning when, contrary to the rules, He paid tribute for Him and Peter when they could simply claim their rights and refuse to pay?NO!

If you have not committed sin since you have believed in christ, tell me. Don't tell me that you are made free from sin for the next 3 hrs you will not commit sin and then not made free from sin for the past 5 minutes you committed sin. Saying this is heretic and unscriptural. Because you are insinuating that we are made free from sin by our right living and not by faith.

Prove the highlighted by quoting me directly!!!!!

Then how? My friend, when we were dead to sin by having FAITH in christ who was put to death for our sake, we were at the same time being made free from the PENALTY of sin, that's what that verse is saying. This happens by faith only and not faith + right living. Believing in faith+right living gospel clearly shows that you are underestimating christ's finished work, by thinking that your faith alone in christ's work cannot give your eternal life, so you have to HELP HIS (imperfect as you've thought through actions) work by right living, so as to qualify yourself, earn it and merit a gift that has been provided and maintained freely.

True faith will produce right living. Did Paul remain the same after he was saved by faith?NO! There was a transformation!!! How about Cornelius? Did he just get a positional righteousness?NO There was an impartation, an inward transformation:

He made no distinction between us and them, for [size=14pt]he cleansed their hearts through faith[/size]
Acts 15:9
Out of the heart are the issues of life(Prov) hence the newness of life will be a result of our faith!!!

If we forever believe we will be forever free from the penalty of sin.

So long as we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:12,13)

You are more conscious of righteousness before men than righteousness before God. This is a foundational trait of the pharisees, they are ignorant of "...before God" and busy establishing their own righteousness.
Righteousness before men works with right living(righteousness by works), but the righteousness before God works with BELIEVING(faith only).

an opinion of yours which has no relation to ANY of my posts before now. If I am wrong just quote one of such.

IT IS ALL ABOUT GRACE!

Heb 11:3 (read all to see it all)

Law does not go with faith, rather grace. Think about the law of karma, can you think faith can help?

Law says; do bad, I will curse you and your entire generation, that's where generational curses started from.
Do good, I will bless you.

Pls address Paul's inspired statement in 1 Corinth 5:11.

But grace says; I shall allow blessings to come for the righteous and the unrighteous, I am happy with them because someone has taken their punishment. I will not keep record of their already paid sin, rather their sins I shall remember no more.

Give references that agree with this statement credited to grace.
Now, if a Christian 'sister' goes for an abortion (result of a 'mistake' with a neighbour's husband) and dies while it is being done, where does she stand?

lordnicklaus:
The translators did not translate it using correct terms. The word for "God" in Greek is "theos" and it can mean any "god" [/b]while the word used for "Almighty God" specifically is "[b]ton theon" which means "the God" so in the Greek text, the real translation should be "In the beginning was the Word (logos) and the Word was with God (ton theon) and the Word was a god (theos"

Wrong, why will it refer to Logos as a god? When the verse following reveals that all things were made by Him(meaning the Logos was indeed the Maker of all that was made). Pls apply your analysis to John 1:18 to see the implication.

promisechuks:
The problem is not right living, the problem is what happens when a christian sin? Having known that christ was condemned for his sake, will the person be condemned for the sin jesus was condemned for?

You misunderstand the scripture, that's why you are living a christian life full of contradiction.


Just answer these questions with bible verse, otherwise will be seen as heresy:
Jesus was condemned for our sake, right?

Jesus abolished the law and it was fulfilled in him?

If jesus was condemned and punished for our sin, how can we(that believe) be punished for the sins he was punished for?

If we can be punished for sin after accepting christ, how can you explain the fact that Jesus was used as a sacrifice for sin?

If the bible clearly states that jesus was made wrath of the sins of the whole world, how can God pour his wrath on us after pouring the same for the same sin on jesus?

If God is a God of justice, how can God punish a sin twice(injustice)?

Kindly consider 1 Corinthians 5:11-12 and tell me if you agree with it.

dolphinheart:
@ Scholar8200 and HIbreed.

I think for a better understanding of each other, and for others to understand the truth better, you should refrain from just posting scriptures that seems to or supports your views. when replying someone else post, one should endeavor to explain the scriptures the other person posted(that's if he thinks the explanation given is not accurate or correct) before posting his own scripture to support his views.

Alright, thanks.

faheez:
So who is the SAMIRI we are talking about?

Okay so Samiri was not a descendant of Joseph but Simeon?

promisechuks:
My friend you are preaching a good message in a heretic way.

The problem with you is that you don't even know what the law entails and you are busy preaching heresy.

The law is made up of 10 commandment and 630+laws.

You said that the spirit of God gives you the power to keep all his laws.
So heretic!
He does not do such! Please if so show us a single verse that says that the holyspirit helps us to live rightly. Jesus clearly stated the functions of the spirit of truth.

Can we be fair and stop these rather deliberate mis-quotings??

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 Show me what I posted that differs from this.

John 16:7-16 King James Version (KJV);
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient
for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the
Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world
of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father,
and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world
is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but
ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not
speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that shall he speak: and he will shew you things
to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of
mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine:
therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and
shall shew it unto you.
A little while, and ye shall not see me: and
again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because
I go to the Father."


What makes us to leave rightly is the love of God shed abroad in our heart.

And WHo sheds that Love?

and hope maketh not ashamed; because the [size=14pt]love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost[/size] which is given unto us.

Romans 5:5

The spirit of God only convicts us of righteousness, and not of sin because he hath convicted of sin before we start to believe in christ due to the fact we weren't believing in christ.

So now you keep the 10 and 630+ laws?
Don't tell me that you are not under the law but under grace because you don't believe that the law has been made non and void(abolished). You still believe that you have to keep the laws(that are not even meant for gentiles) after accepting christ.

Is that what Paul was saying in Romans 8:4?

My friend, you CANNOT fulfil the law of righteousness by yourself(whether you are filled with the power of the spirit or not). In your own understanding, fulfilling the law in us; means living accordingly to the laws(10 and 630+).

That highlighted is a bold contradiction of Romans 8:4!!!

My friend, fulfilment of the law has been done and established in the righteousness of jesus. When you believe in him, his righteousness will be imputed on you even when you are not living rightly. This happens with FAITH ONLY and not keeping of the law(right living) or worst of all, faith + right living.
Your right living is a self-established one and not of jesus' righteousness.

Oh, tell this to Peter:


Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:13-16

At the point of believing we are justified (the old account is settled), also when we believed, we receive the Grace of God, the Power of the Indwelling Spirit that imparts the Life of Christ while mortifying the flesh, this produces Newness of life - holiness.

Rom 10:3;"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about ESTABLISHING(as your are doing), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God(which is of faith only, not faith+right living".


Rom 3:28;"Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH(not right living) WITHOUT the deed(obeying) of the law."

And through FAITH he also has access into the Grace of God, thus, he is a New Creature and sin does not have dominion over him! Justification/Forgiveness is not all there is to Grace!

promisechuks:
Bro, I does NOT entail right living as a HELPING MEANS or whatever, to be near righteousness before God. if you say no, disprove it with the scripture ONLY, no answer based on imagination, thoughts or experience, so we can analyse it.


What it entails is Freedom from the penalty, condemnation, imputation and judgement of our sins.

ANd also freedom from the Power and dominion of sin. If this is not there, we make grace a permission to cruise on in the broad way with an assurance of making it through the narrow gate!

promisechuks:
We were saved from the curse of the law.
Period!

But was the Angel wrong when he thus said:

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:21

OR was Zechariah mistaken when he said concerning the Messiah:

74that he would grant unto us,
that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies
might serve him without fear,

75 in holiness and righteousness before him,
all the days of our life.
Luke 1:74,75

The wages of sin is death, the curse which EVERYBODY deserves(no matter how rightly you live), but the GIFT of God is eternal life, which we can NEVER deserve but has been given freely because Jesus tasted death(which we deserve) for every man that hath, is and will live on earth, to give us the gift of righteousness.

What a great love!!!

Jesus was made guilt for our sin, was condemned for our sin and was punished, so that we can FREELY have his righteousness not withstanding sin.

CAn you pls explain this:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, [size=14pt]in this present world[/size];
13 looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works
Titus 2:11-14

HIbreed:
l'm the subordinate child here
you coudn't answer my questions but rendwring yours here

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;



1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

But when He returns they shall look on Him who they have pierced, is that a spirit? ANd when the Bible says this mortality shall put on immortality does it mean we shall become spirits too?
My refs: Zechariah 12:10, 1 Corinth 15:53

ANd what is this referring to:

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body...
Phil 3:21a

Remember Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones, What then?
As regards your question, look at Phil, 2:6 to get your answer on equality.

promisechuks:
My friend, to understand grace properly, you should be looking at it in the person of Jesus.
Grace is a person(jesus).

Now, while still looking at grace in the person of jesus. Let's answer this question.

Q1: Why did christ die?
a. For the guilt, imputation, condemnation and penalty of not just our entire sin but the sins of the whole world?
b. For the power of sin over flesh?

Answer: Jesus NEVER died for the power of sin over flesh. Please to disprove this, quote even a single reasonable scriptures. Proving it with your imagination, experiences or thought, should be regarded as heresy.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6:7,11,12,13

This is clear enough bro. Besides, if we continue obeying sin this is what it says:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:15,16

If we keep yielding to sin, we are sin's servants and we get sin's wages!

What jesus died for is the guilt, imputation, condemnation and penalty of our sins. Each time I read the scriptures I see things like ".....who bore our sins on his body(penalty)."
1Peter 2:24;"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins(punishment), should live unto righteousness(which is of faith, not works): by whose stripes ye were healed."

Isaiah 53:6;"All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the
LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him."

But Paul, inspired by God, said this will be the result when we believe:

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:22

Yes HE died to free us from guilt etc, but He also died to free us from sin's dominion!

NOTE: accepting and believing the finished work of christ does not make one SINLESS, NEVER. Does not even make us live rightly, rather the love of God shed abroad in our heart. If you don't agree, disprove it with the scriptures ONLY. And despite the love, it does not mean that we can never sin, rather the love gives us the hunger for right living, we can still sin because of our imperfection in flesh. Not withstanding the love, we commit sin, we are NOT condemned, because jesus was condemned for our sake.

As regards the highlighted, the Love gives us the desire and the POWER to walk in Newness of life (what you call right living)! Yes John wrote that IF (not WHEN) any christian sins, we have an advocate with the Father. Meaning there may be times of occasional slips but it wont be the norm. And in fact, such will be followed by instant desire to make things right!

The saints in Corinth had an issue regarding sin by one of their members and Paul wrote to rebuke them; afterward he, through the inspiration of the Spirit, commended their action:

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, [size=14pt]if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.[/size]
1 corinth 5:11

Did they brand Paul a pharisee that did not understand the workings of grace? NO rather see their reaction which Paul commended:

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
2 Corinth 7:9-12

Remember this was written to believers in whose church the gifts of the Spirit was in continual manifestation!!!

They eagerly sought to make things right with godly sorrow and repentance. If we have received grace, sin will not be the norm and IF it happens, we will not sit basking in a deceived notion but true grace will beget godly sorrow an genuine repentance with all necessary restitution and a more taking heed lest it ever repeats itself.

Romans 7:14-25
"14. We know that the law is spiritual; but I am
unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not
understand what I do. FOR WHAT I WANT TO DO I DO NOT DO, BUT WHAT I HATE I DO(sin). And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, BUT IT IS SIN STILL LIVING IN ME(sin is still in his flesh). FOR I KNOW THAT GOOD
ITSELF DOES NOT DWELL IN ME, that is, in my SINFUL NATURE(flesh). For I have the desire to do what is
good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do
the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want
to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but
IT IS SIN THAT IS LIVING IN ME(flesh) THAT DOES IT.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to
do good, evil is right there with me. For in my
inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see
another law at work in me, waging war against
the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of
the law of sin at work within me. What a
wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from
this body that is subject to death? Thanks be
to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our
Lord!
(by imputing on him jesus' righteousness). So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s
law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law
of sin.
"

Yes but he continues in Chapter 8 that the Spirit that raised up Jesus quickens our mortal bodies (with the same Resurrection life) and mortifies the flesh thus giving us Victory that the Law could not give!!!
see Romans 8:4,10,11,13

That you accept christ does not make you sinless, that's to show you that grace(jesus' death) is not for the power of sin over flesh, because even paul was struggling with sin, but not struggling to be righteous before God.

Paul was not reporting Romans 7 as a present battle else how did he arrive at Chapter 8 and the Victory described therein? The same Paul could testify thus:

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe
1 Thessalonians 2: 10

Was that by the Law or struggling?NO It was by the Grace he also received!!!

But, you believing in christ, makes you eternally, innocent, never to be judged, condemned, punished and imputteth not your sins on you because it has been carried out on jesus.

Rom 5:13:"(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

This is heresy! Was Paul inspired when he said what he said in 1 Corinth 5:11 about saints (brothers) who continue in sin? We do not live right to be justified or to get to Heaven. BUT, when we receive Grace, the evidence of what we received is that we walk in newness of life except if we lost Grace, we are enabled to continue walking therein.

HIbreed:
its clear in the bible that Christ resurrected as a flesh,ascended to heaven as a spirit.By the way, its this a suppossed derailing of my questions?

Back this up with the clear Scriptures!
I am not derailing, this is a short cut leading to the same destination.

marcopollo:
✞ Is It True Our Salvation is Really A FREE GIFT? No Strings?
.
God has revealed to us “The wages of sin is death but the *GIFT of God is eternal life...”
.
*Gift Defined: Something
voluntarily transferred by one
person to another without
compensation or payment.
.
When you receive a birthday gift
from a love one how much does it
cost you and what must you
promise to do to receive or keep it?
.
If you have to make any
contributions of money or
word...by definition is is NOT a gift! That is not what a gift is!
.
Jesus made a complete and total
payment for our sins though his
death, shed blood, burial and
resurrection and by virtue of HIS
work he offers salvation to all who will trust in him for it as a gift.
.
All that is required to receive your
gift of salvation is BELIEVE-[trust]
that he shed his blood, died to pay
for your sins and rose from the
dead to GIFT you will eternal
salvation.
.
You can only give a gift that you
have paid the full price for. For
those who receive a genuine 'gift,'
there are no hidden fees or
surcharges applied to the recipient. And it cant legally be taken back!
.
God's gift of salvation is no
different regards of what you have heard or thought. The Bible shows there are no strings attached because Jesus paid the price in full. If you put your faith in his death, shed blood, burial and resurrection of Jesus the only begotten son of God (1 Cor. 15:1-4), he gives you the 'gift' of eternal life and no charge to you. He paid the price in full. It's really that simple.
.
Read it here:
"For 'if' we 'believe' that {Jesus died and rose again}, even so them also which sleep [died] in Jesus will God bring with him." -1Thess.4:14
So here is the question you must
answer now, Will you accept the
gift of God right now? How?
Believe (Trust, have faith) in Jesus,
that he died paying for your sins
and rose from the grave to save
you.
.
Add nothing or take nothing away
from this gospel message unless
you make it null and void as it then is no longer a gift.
.
➜ Please, please 'SHARE' for the lost on Facebook or any other social media if you agree .

Op, what are we saved from when we receive salvation?
And when we receive Grace, what does grace produce in us?
Why is it that Paul always commenced his epistles stating the benefits of free Grace but end with demands for a righteous life: a proof of grace received?

HIbreed:
Now that he ascended to heaven as a spirit,he said this also: Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:2 Be thou watchful, and establish the things that remain, which were ready to die: for I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
Revelation 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. HE WAS NO LONGER FLESH WHEN HE SAID THESE THINGS, can a G od Worship a God?

Differentiate the Resurrected Jesus that showed Thomas His pierced hands and side, and the Jesus that spoke in Revelations.

I hope you are not trying to imply that the Resurrected Christ was a spirit?!

HIbreed:
'Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name' God exalting himself?

Luke 22:42 Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine."
ARE THEY OF THE SAME EQUALITY? Point-blanked NO!!

All took place after Phillippians 2:4-6 after the Word had been made flesh.