₦airaland Forum

lexiconkabir:
first of all are you willing to debate the fact that Spirit means a prophet in the NT(scholar whom you love so much tried but later gave up)? furthermore the word Holy just like other frauds of the bible, was never beside the word spirit in that verse, willing to debate that too?

1. Bros, but that's not true! Where we concluded was that you wanted the proof that Spirit and Ghost are used interchangeably and I showed you a passage! And can you show where spirit was used instead of prophet ANYWHERE in the NT?

Or did the Quran ever call a prophet, a spirit?

Humblebloke:
I really wanna give up on you...... The fact that you think revenge and justice are the same.....sigh*

Justice as logically, legally, and ethically defined—isn’t
really about “getting even” or experiencing a spiteful joy in
retaliation. Instead, it’s about righting a wrong that most
members of society (as opposed to simply the alleged
victim) would agree is morally culpable. And the presumably unbiased moral rightness of such justice is based on cultural or community standards of fairness and equity. Whereas revenge has a certain selfish quality to it
.


The driving impetus behind revenge is to get even, to carry out a private vendetta, If successful, the party perceiving itself as gravely injured (though others might not
necessarily agree) experiences considerable gratification:
their retaliatory goal has been achieved—the other side
vanquished, or brought to its knees. Just or not, the avenger
feels justified. Their quest for revenge has re-empowered them and, from their biased viewpoint, it’s something
they’re fully entitled to.

On the other hand, social justice is impersonal. It revolves
around moral correction in situations where certain ethical
and culturally vital principles have been violated.

Revenge is an act of vindictiveness...justice is an act of vindication.

Like I said earlier.... The people who made these laws could also face the law
......you say its not right to take law into one's hand but you worship a vengeful and vindictive imaginary humanoid who doesn't live by his own laws


How do you rationalize these things.....Its crazy tho'....... You“Christian ethics demand that humans should not take revenge.

Yet you worship a God who is the greatest avenger of them all. Defy him and you burn in eternal hell, an act of revenge which is completely out of proportion to the crime.

Next time put your reference.

Now why do we say revenge is taking laws into your hands? Meaning you seek to enforce justice by your self not wanting another to enforce justice on your behalf!

promisechuks:
Everytime, you mention Rom 6:1 without knowing the meaning.

Please if you are sincere to know what grace means and to settle the Rom 6:1 case, read the below CAREFULLY.



Beloved, if you believe that christ died for your sins, then why not, that's why it is called grace- unmerited favour/what we do not deserve. If you will still be punished for your sins, then it means that christ was not sacrificed but murdered by God.

Are we saved in sin or saved to sin or saved from sin?

A sinner will not go to hell because of the fact that the person committed sin but because the person is misbelieving his(christ)

And when we believe shall we continue in sin? Why then did Christ die if I will remain a slave to sin? What then makes the New Covenant better if it only makes us sinners with permission?

death by thinking that there is another more work required of him to be saved or that the person refused the man who took the consequence of the sins of the world(including his or hers), the wages of everyman's sin which is DEATH to himself by dying on the cross, and the man is JESUS CHRIST

But the blessing is not generalized! We still must enter in by repentance and faith!!! If we say we have believed and continue in our sins then we don NOT believe! And while the offer of Grace is constant, we have to hold fast in faith and that faith is revealed in that we walk in newness of life!

THERE IS NO WORK REQUIRED FOR YOUR SALVATION, BUT ONLY TO CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESU AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED.

Saved from what!Is salvation the same as permission to live in sin? When HE saves us is it not that He saves us from the guilt and Power of sin? And when we are saved from the Power of sin do we still remain slaves to sin? And if we remain slaves to sin, we get the wages of sin -DEATH!

Jesus said; whosoever that shall call upon me shall be saved.

Book, chapter and verse where Jesus said this! But did Jesus misunderstand Salvation when He said on two occasions after forgiveness:
GO AND SIN NO MORE? WHat role does the Spirit come to play in our lives after we believe? To cheer us on in sin?

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:13 was written to Believers!!!

There is no amount of right living you will live for you to please GOD that's why the bible says "our righteousness is as a filthy rag before God"

That is why we receive His righteousness at salvation and we are to walk in newness of life else our faith claims are all false!

even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:22
Which means we receive His righteousness , we are made partakers of the Divine Nature but remember that if we dont watch, the pig that was washed can return to her wallowing in the mire. Is it still clean?

that's why Jesus has to come and die for us so that our lost relationship will be restored with God[b](with sin or no sin)[/b]

This is heretical! So if A claims to believe and today he sleeps with sister B, tomorrow sister C, next aborts a pregnancy for sister D and he dies while going home, he will land in Heaven?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil
1 John 3:8
Was also written to believers. What then did Christ destroy if I am not free?

The first problem with many of us is that we hardly forgive ourselves even after accepting christ.
Secondly, the problem of wrong believing.
Thirdly, we are too sin-concious instead of love and grace-concious.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:34-36
Free to live in sin or free from the power and control of sin? ANSWER!!! The Son comes to deliver us FROM our former master not TO our former master!

But why would someone enjoy intentionally committing sin after seeing such a great love and grace from God through christ?

Because there is still a tempter and many have been deluded through his subtlety! You should listen to your people and perhaps yourself too! These teachings will never make ANYONE to hunger and thirst after righteousness; or to seek to be pure in heart!

As for me, each time I see sin before me and I remember God's love and grace, I will just melt or possibly burst in tears of joy(simply because I don't worth such love because in my holiest form I AM A BEAST before God)

Grace does not leave us with our self righteous rags but makes us partakers of the divine nature such that our very heart shrinks from the thought of going into sin!!! How then do you say when we believe sin or no sin, we are alright

and overcome the sin without stress or even unknowingly, though even if I commit it, I know that I will not suffer for it because christ has suffered the consequences for me.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die! That passage in Hebrews 6 speaks of people who were once enlightened and had the Holy Ghost! What does it say about them? That whatever happens they are still alright? Why dont we read our Bibles?

I don't even know when last I committed sin, but still when I look at my works(which is 100% right living) and look at the grace of God, I will simply call myself A BEAST, but in christ I AM A HOLY NATION, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, RIGHTEOUS KING, A CHOSEN ONE, CHILD OF YAWEH(as christ is, so are we in faith)because I can't compare my works with the grace and love of God through christ.

What a contradiction! Perhaps those works are not by Grace! Else to start with, we do not glory in the holiness of life produced by Grace! (what do you have that you did not receive? ANd if you received it why are you proud?)However, the lack of a life of victory shows that our faith is vain!

SEE THE SOLUTION FOR LIVING RIGHTLY;
1. Forgive yourself and forget your former sins, and try your best to see yourself as HOLY, LOVELY, RIGHTEOUS before God, under all cost, no matter what you did, doing and will do. STOP FEELING GUILTY ALL THE TIME!!!

Did you read what Paul said to the Corinthian church when one of them went to incest? That they ought to have MOURNED! In fact, he disciplined the erring person! Afterwards Paul spoke about how they carefully went about reforming their church! What about that! Or was Christ being hard when HE said that a Church had a name to be alive but dead? Or did you not read that some miracle workers who so believed that they could, by faithin Him, do MANY miracles and He will reject them because they are workers of INIQUITY!

2. Start being GOD'S GRACE & LOVE-CONCIOUS instead of SIN-CONCIOUS.(It will make you to always thinks about how kind, lovely and graceful God is throughout your life). Constant looking up to Jesus the author and the finisher of our faith.

3. Start believing rightly, ask the holyspirit to help you understand before reading the bible and to give you the revelations that are behind the letters.

No.3 solution is the problem with many christians who misunderstood Mathew 5: 17-18 and Romans 6:1. It is a very big problem to them that makes them to ignorantly reject grace and stick to law without even knowing.

1.While in Mathew 5: 17-18, jesus said"17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL ALL BE FULLFILLED."

It simply means UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED the law will not be abolished.

So Question; UNTIL WHEN WAS ALL FULFILLED?
Answer; AT THE CROSS, at the point he said "IT IS FINISHED!!!" And gave up the ghost, the law became abolished.
Now we are not saved by work(law)but by faith(grace) we have in christ.

And when we believe on Him, the righteousness of the Law should be fulfilled through us too(as we walk in the Spirit) else we shall die!
that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

2. In Romans 6:1;"what shall we say then? Shall we continue IN sin, that grace may abound?"

The problem with believers and this chapter is that they combine sin, as in, nature and act as act.

Sin are in two aspect BY NATURE AND BY ACTION.

Of which every single soul in this life is sinful by nature, even if a new born baby, but in the case of a new born baby he will go to heaven(if I should say) because the baby has not reached an age of accountability and of course, didn't reject accepting Jesus.

So, when you see or hear "IN" it is talking about nature and when you see "TO" it is talking about action.
The word "IN" in that verse means NATURE and not action.

See the difference; "shall we continue IN(nature) sin" and "shall we continue TO(action) sin"

That's why he went to the next 2 verses to say;"2. GOD FORBID, how shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer thereIN(nature of sin). 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as baptized INto(nature of christ) jesus christ were baptized into his death"

I pray that anyone who is not sure of his salvation will be very and certainly sure about his or her salvation in Jesus' name, say AMEEN.

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Roman 6:6-16
Verse 16 means if after we have 'believed' we continue yielding to sin, we are the servants of sin and his wages is DEATH!

promisechuks:
But you must be careful when indicating false prophets.

It is better not to indicate at all than to blaspheme against God's true anointed man of God.

There is NO such things as blaspheming a man!
Besides, juxtapose this teaching to that of many parts of the Gospels and Epistles and see glaring differences. Unfortunately, most purveyors of eternal security NEVER consider these verses when you show them. One even went ahead to claim some NT books/parts is not for us all in a bid to embrace this man's teaching!!!

promisechuks:
Why is it that you don't read your bible well and listen VERY WELL ro people's teaching before criticising?

What pastor chris meant was that masturbation is quite a sin before God.

But if that person believes on the grace of God through the finished work of christ, then though he committed the sin, he will not suffer the consequences in hell, because that is what jesus die for, in the person's place, at the cross of calvary.



If God will still punish the person because of the person's sin that Jesus was condemned to death for on the cross, then it means that Jesus was not SACRIFICED but MUDERED by God.

shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Dont you know that,''he that abideth in Him sins not''!
Bro, it appears you people think grace is only forgiveness! It includes forgiveness and Power to be victorious over sin! And both are accessed by faith! If you have no true victory, then your faith is a hoax! Paul said in Ephesians 5,'' let no man deceive you with vain words for because of these things the judgement of God comes...''
Meaning avoid deceptive people that indirectly encourage you in sin!

Humblebloke:
Wow....

-The judge didn't make the law...... He's just an enforcer*


-The law was made by the (society)......that's not revenge

The law was made by the Government of which the Judiciary is an arm!

It's really sad........ A scholar like you should know there's a difference between revenge and justice.

Unlike revenge....Justice is about closure

Justice is Revenge on behalf of the aggrieved!

The judge aint taking vengeance on anyone's behalf

Interesting!

The judge is not an imaginary entity..... If he kills someone in the name of revenge.... He will definitely face the law

The soldiers that execute the criminal in line with the instruction of the Judge are not murderers! On whose behalf do they kill? The judge or the plaintiff (Mr A)

According to you...... Vegeance is not good,vengeance is(yahweh) the opposite of good.....

Which is right?
You take laws in to your hands and commit murder or
You have the murderer arrested and the Government enforces the penalty of the law of capital punishment?
And when the Govt. makes and enforces that law, are they murderers? If you never went to the police or the court would anything be done? Then on whose behalf have they acted?

esere826:
This is what you've just done:


Let us avoid evil communicators, for example, "Olaadegbu is of the devil" [size=5pt]is a statement that can come only from the mouth of those who are easily given to evil communication[/size]

But Jesus said to beware of false prophets? The tenor of these teachings negate:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
Hebrews 6:1-6

Why did Jesus and the Apostles command us to watch and pray and be sober if there were no dangers of backsliding once we 'believe'?

reallest:
Y don't u back it up with Bible verses just like I did

Alright this is where they started with Israel:

8 Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim. (for no provocation they just attacked the band of recently liberated, unarmed and weary slaves! Joshua was sent to defend Israel.)

14 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven(their unprovoked attack drew the wrath of God)

Exodus 17:8,14

God however waited till 1 Samuel 15 to execute that judgement! He normally waits for the erring party to repent like Nineveh did after Jonah preached to them!

2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1 Samuel 15:2,3 (The time for judgement had come and it was to be child for child, wife for wife, son for son in OT fashion!)


This declaration of Samuel to their king showed they simply went from bad to worse after their fathers:

Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past. 33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.

1 Samuel 15:32,33

It was a case of justice served!!! ANd what I see here is the patience of God! Not willing that any should perish but mercy will not always be there!

Likewise many are saying why has Jesus not come back? God is simply being patient perhaps there will be repentance!


Like many desert tribes, the Amalekites were nomadic. Numbers 13:29 places them as native to the Negev, the desert between Egypt and Canaan. The Babylonians called them the Sute, Egyptians the Sittiu, and the Amarna tablets refer to them as the Khabbati, or “plunderers.”

The Amalekites’ unrelenting brutality toward the Israelites began with an attack at Rephidim (Exodus 17:8–13). This is recounted in Deuteronomy 25:17–19 with this admonition: “Remember what the Amalekites did to you along the way when you came out of Egypt. When you were weary and worn out, they met you on your journey and attacked all who were lagging behind [typically women and children]: they had no fear of God. When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance, you shall blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!”

The Amalekites later joined with the Canaanites and attacked the Israelites at Hormah (Numbers 14:45). In Judges they banded with the Moabites (Judges 3:13) and the Midianites (Judges 6:3) to wage war on the Israelites. They were responsible for the repeated destruction of the Israelites’ land and food supply.
gotquestions.org

Humblebloke:
Really.... Dude doesn't even practice what he preaches.



Who makes laws and does not live by them......bad example!!!

So would you adjudge a Chief Justice to be guilty of murder for sentencing a serial killer to death by firing squad?
ANswer!



Afterall the judge is taking vengeance on the serial killer on behalf of the community who would not take laws into their hands!

nasiayam:
The oldest copies of the Gospel of Mark, the Sinaitic and Vatican, end at Mark 16:8. A note in the New International Version of the Bible states: "The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20." Verses 9 to 20 appear to have been added later by an unknown Christian forger. The addition was quoted in the writings of Irenaeus and Hippolytus in the [size=13pt]second or third century.[/size]



DO CHRISTIANS AGREE IT'S A FORGERY?

They are not the oldest! The Wikipedia pegs the date of the writing of Sinaiticus in between 330-360 AD meaning there was an older one that Irenaeus quoted from and that one had the verses 9-20!

The real forgery are your dears - the Sinaitic and Vatican! Product of gnostic tampering!

promisechuks:
Please, if you are really a Christian, you will know that angels are quite different holyspirit.

Holyspirit is the part of God that posses every believer of the gospel.

Does angel live/posses human being?

Just think about it!

I know. I just want to clarify things from their perspective.

Empiree:
I did actually. You said u are mobile.

I didnt say there is any. Rather it is a pure command and warning. Quran does not give judgement either. It says to abstain from it. The statement is very clear. I dont know why you people chose to ignore. The implication of eating pork is manifest in the world now. "Retribution" can be proven and has been proven scientifically. When you get the chance, watch the pastor again. It's moral too. Anytime God used command tune in Holy Books, like "Do not", common sense tells you there is repercussion either in this world or hereafter. Pretty simple. You cant ignore the fact that your Bible says pork is unclean and you are FORBIDDEN from eating it. Thats my point.

Well I guess the difference between the Quran and OT is that the latter has purely ceremonial laws that do not get us nearer to God , and moral laws which are binding in all dispensations.However, right from the time the OT was given, God clearly hinted of the future showing that beyond external forms and compliance with rites, He wanted transformed hearts and lives just as the NT provides:

29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deuteronomy 5:29

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6

This is why when John the baptist was born, his father declared concerning the soon to be born Messiah for Whom John was a forerunner:

to perform the mercy promised to our fathers,
and to remember his holy covenant;
73 the oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 that he would grant unto us,
that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies
might serve him without fear,
75 in holiness and righteousness before him,
all the days of our life.
Luke 1:72-75

This carries more weight than the outward ceremonies of abstinence from meats while the real defilants are in the heart!

You Christians really misunderstood covenant issue. I cleared it up here
https://www.nairaland.com/2922804/truthman2012/1#42769839

What aspect is misunderstood? Kindly indicate vis a vis the prophecies found in the prophets quoted

Empiree:
Yup

Are other angels also so described or only Gabriel?

Empiree:
Seems you dont get it. When your Bible said in OT pork is FORBIDDEN, this is enough to abstain from it. You do not know better than creator. He has reason for saying not to eat pork. Quran does not give earthly punishment for it either. It simply warns us....which means there is danger in it. It is up to us to reason and research but we must obey His command first.


In these verses of Quran, they are enough instructions and warning to not eat pork. Pretty simple.


“He has forbidden you only dead animals, and blood, and the swine, and that which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for other than God.” (Quran 2:173)



"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience". (Al-Mā'idah 5:3)




Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah" (Al-'An`ām 6:145).



"He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah". (An-Naĥl 16:115)




There is no earthly punishment mentioned in the Quran either. We only obey God by abstaining. God Himself determines punishment in the Hereafter. He may also choose to forgive.


“When God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, they (the believers) should not have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys God and His Messenger; he has indeed strayed into a plain error.” (Quran 33:36)

Well, the Law was given to Israel, notice that the Gentiles (who made no distinctions between meats) then were to be admitted to Israel's passover only if they yielded to circumcision nothing was said about meats to them. Even in Acts 15:28,29, only a minimal part was, through the Holy Spirit's leading handed to them. The goal of the NT is reconciliation to God and holiness of heart and life, not proselytizing of Gentiles to Jewish practices.

Humblebloke:
If you murdered my father..... And i avenged his death by killing you....



Will your god be ok with that

Now even the laws of the land will tag you a murderer for taking laws in your hand!
Vengeance belongs to God!

Empiree:
So you clear about pig meat or pork now or still believe it is edible?. What do you think of ur NT now?

When a command in the OT was moral, the judgement for disobedience was either death, being cut off, and was described as an abomination to God! Now was this said about pork?
Pray were Pigs in Eden? How come God made morally unclean animals? Were Pigs is Noah's ark? Why didnt God seize that opportunity to wipe out the unclean animal? Summary? They were ceremonially tagged not as though they were intrinsically unclean.
Besides, Jesus clearly and openly declared that meats do not defile! Rather it is the sins that come out of a sinful heart! Mark 7:18-23
Pls let's not discuss this any further till you have read that reference.

reallest:
Give one instance

Amalek attacked and killed many Israelites in cold blood just because of water, God issues a judgement, God waits for centuries perhaps that they will repent but Amalek continues wasting others rendering mothers childless (as Samuel said) now after waiting centuries God decide to execute vengeance on Amalek for all her atrocities against others! Is this murder?
If you doubt me do your research on the amalekites.

.

Empiree:
It looks like you are about to get it twisted. I can sense that. Before you rip me off, let me quickly post arabic word used in the verse bcus oni bara e n bole bo


16:102

قُلۡ نَزَّلَهٗ [size=20pt]رُوۡحُ[/size] الۡقُدُسِ مِنۡ رَّبِّكَ بِالۡحَـقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِيۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا وَهُدًى وَّبُشۡرٰى لِلۡمُسۡلِمِيۡنَ

@bolded is "Ruh" which means 'pure spirit' is referred to Angel Gabriel in most cases throughout Quran



You can check other translations of the same verse. Ruh refers to Angel Gabriel.


Asad: Say: "Holy inspiration has brought it down from thy Sustainer by stages, setting forth the truth, so that it might give firmness unto those who have attained to faith, and provide guidance and a glad tiding unto all who have surrendered themselves to God."



Malik: Say, "The Holy Spirit (Gabriel) has brought it down piecemeal intact from your Rabb to strengthen the faith of the believers, and to give guidance and good news to the Muslims."



Pickthall: Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).



Yusuf Ali: Say the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in truth in order to strengthen those who believe and as a guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

‏

okay Muslims believe Angel Gabriel=Holy Spirit?

Empiree:
Did u even care to watch the video?.

by this question i see that you did not read my replies!

Do you read ur Bible at all?. What is the bible verse below says to you?


Deuteronomy 14:8

"The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DLA_BRO4p4

Another video for u ^

Leviticus 11:7-8

"And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you."

here is the problem! These quotes do not give any judgement or retribution! Why? They are purely ceremonial not moral! These ceremonial laws are not carried into the NT. But the moral laws with higher demands are found in the NT! Why? because grace is available to enable us do them!

This is talking about "children of Israel. You are not Israelite. You are christian. What does this has to do with you?.

Glad you asked!
The Seed of Abraham, the One through Whom the New covenant was to be sealed (He Himself said so) was to be He through Whom all the nations of the World (not only Abraham's biological descendants) would be blessed!
Psalm 22 was a prophecy of David on the death of Christ and it ends by showing that the Gentiles will be brought into this covenant in keeping with God's promise to Abraham
Psalm 22:27
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord and all kindreds of the world shall worship before thee same Psalm 72:11,
Psalm 98:3
Isaiah speaking of the renewal sealed it up thus:
...It is a light thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob(Israel)...I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation to the ends of the Earth
Note the repetition of the ends of the earth, all the world etc in keeping to God's promise to Abraham.
there are many prophecies on the New Covenant and the benefits therein and the fact that the Gentiles are to be included!
In summary, the New Covenant is the Gospel!Jesus alluded to that in Matthew 26:28, Luke 24:44-47.


That is why when He came and some did not receive Him, as many as received Him were given the adoption!

Besides, it says covenant is written in their heart?. Do Jews have the covenant in their heart?.

The OT was sealed only when Israel indicated there commitment thereto Exodus 24:7,8 (note the role of the blood)! The NT is enforced only in those Who receive Him ie believe on His Name (not as a mere prophet)
Hence we have Christians who are jews and hristians who are gentiles. Any who truly believes is brought in and we become one in Christ!
So it did does not drop on Isreal by force, commitment of faith must be expressed!

Listen, Quran speaks of something similar. Jeremiah you quoted says Israelites broke the covenant and the Lord was going to make new one with them. What is the covenant and where is it now?. It's not even talking about Christianity.

Jeremiah was not the only one who prophesied such! Ezekiel did, Isaiah did etc In fact, Malachi called Jesus Lord and the Messenger of the Covenant:
Malachi 3:1
... And the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come...even the messenger of the Covenant...

Hence any claims should agree with all the prophecies!

So we should let the thief off the hook bcus we are also sinners?. Thief Quran is even talking about is not petty. It is talking about (qintar) big stuff like ur politicians who steal big. A hungry man who steals should be given job. His/her affairs should be reviewed before punishment is handed down.

I see. Jesus said My kingdom is not of this world. Hence we Christians cannot form a parallel govt with laws to punish societal offenders! That is why we have the govt in place.

But in Christianity, you scrap it completely from your NT. This is why your politicians and pastors dont want shariah to to be implemented.

Well, there is a separation of state from faith. Besides, no true believer will go to steal! If he does, either he has fallen or was never in: The detailed communal laws in the OT was so because a nation was just being born and God wanted it to be Theocratic! Now gentiles who believe are not called to try to make not their communities Theocratic, but their own lives and thus they have a positive influence.

Empiree:
Jubril (Angel Gabriel) alaiy salam. I cant help u with linguistic analysis of "brought in your earth" or "recite or read". It is clear enough for the wise

Okay so we can infer that the Quran uses the term Pure spirit instead of the word angel for angels?

Empiree:
Jubril (Angel Gabriel) alaiy salam. I cant help u with linguistic analysis of "brought in your earth" or "recite or read". It is clear enough for the wise

Okay so we can infer that the Quran refers to angels as Pure spirits?

Empiree:
What is covenant?. Remember we talked about this in the other thread but you gave up?.

No I didnt give up. However read this:
Jeremiah 31:31b,32a
...that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[b]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them...out of Egypt which my covenant they brake...
You can read further (i am not on a desktop).

Remember we talked about this as well in the other thread but you gave up?. Yes, they were instructed to obey and fulfill the Law but they always rebelled with their prophets

[Quran 2:87]

"And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed".

consider that passage above. They broke the covenant repeatedly and God said a New one was to be made (not immediately) and if you read further this New covenant was to deal with the heart because that is the controller of external actions.

@underlined, is there annything like true Gospel?.....which of the Gospel are you referring to, pls?

The 4 Gospels. I had to qualify it because of the purveyors of the contaminated ones on NL.
Besides, who is the Pure Spirit?

@bolded, Quran has this to say

2:97

'Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah , confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."

I thought some folks say it was read and recited? Perhaps that's why many want to learn it by memory. And who kept it there? Kindly shed more light. Besides is there any history of similar dealings with angels among the arabs? Can you quote directly from any hadiths?

16:102

Say, [O Muhammad], "The Pure Spirit has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."


Again, what is Covenant?. Does it change the old Laws?

Who is that referring to?

Empiree:
So Jesus do away with old Laws?, permits eating of pork? etc?. And bcus other men sin we should let go all sinners?. Well, listen to your fellow Christians. Are they wrong?. What does "Keep The Commandments" means?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak2WlWYHcqM

1. Concerning pork, kindly quote here the OT passage that forbids it and the repercussion for those who eat.

2. Jeremiah 31:31-33 distinctly prophesies a New Covenant that involves transformation inside out. Thus the Old was to give way for the New.

3. Before you condemn a sinner, examine your heart! For example before we amputate the hand of the thief, are we not guilty of covetousness in the heart and the NT ranks us as the same? We dont continue in either after we receive Grace thru Jesus though.

4. My phone cannot run a video but that quote you drew therefrom, ...
When the rich young ruler camme to Jesus and Jesus told Him to keep the commandments, remember that the ruler said he had been doing that already yet there was a lack, a void that Jesus pointed out, though indirectly, that only Him as Lord could fill. The Law was still in force, Jesus had not died then, however, the ruler had got to the point where the limitations of the law shone forth.
Why did Jesus not rebuke him when he said he had been keeping the commandments but still felt a lack? The Law had it's limits God purposed it that way. The dispensation of the NT through Christ that was prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc was to take care of those limitations but all at God's time.

And Jesus pointed him to a life of surrendering to, and following after Jesus

In case the video dealt with another portion apart from this, kindly vouchsafe some excerpts.

reallest:
God took vengeance on who?

On the murderer of Mr A's loved one.

Empiree:
If thats isthe case, it means he approves of it. He never changed anything there like Laws that Christians have abandoned today

And HE also affirmed that there is going to be a New Covenant just as Ezekiel 36,Jeremiah31 prophesied. Now since two Covenants cannot run concurrently, the Old had to give place for the New and that is Why He clearly said He came to FULFIL the Old. Hence the Old has come to Pass (like prophesies do), based on the fact that He fulfilled it!!! By the way He did not say, " I Have come to OBEY the Law, why did He use the Word FULFIL?

Did Moses ever tell the Israelites to Fulfil the Law? THe word then was obey, observe, do etc Why did Moses not tell them FULFIL?
But since the WOrd of God can NEVER be set aside Christ came to FULFIL the Law thus making way for the dispensation of the NT which He also corroborated!

Honestly, this is clear enough to suggest corruption. If it was written after him, how the heck it's Divine Books?.

Interesting! Now the writers of the true Gospels etc were inspired by the Spirit of God. (before you throw stones, muslims also claim that the Quran came through an angel to a man and up till that time I doubt if the concept of angels meeting men like was done to Muhammed, was popular among the Arabs, unlike the Spirit Whose Influence fills the OT!)

In islam, Quran is Supreme authority. No other books stands in judgement over it not even hadith. Hadith is a collection of sayings and deeds of the prophet collected and written after Muhammad(saw). And every muslim understands that it is not 100% valid. Authenticity of each hadith has to be verified with Quran. That is, it has to be in harmony with Quran. If not, it has to be thrown out or put at the bottom list for further review. That is why we have grades: Sound ahadith, weak ahdith and fabricated ahadith. So how can you say Bible is not corrupted knowingly well it was written after Jesus(peace be upon him)?.

[quote]Can you reason?. Did Jesus verify what is written after him?. No.

Too bad NL encourages this!

Here is Jesus speaking to His disciples!!!

27 and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 15:27

As for inspiration you mentioned, no disciples can take the place f Jesus. Just like no sahaba(companions of the prophet) can take the place of muhammad(p). They are prophet sent with message. Therefore, they are solely responsible for guiding the people no disciples or companions.

Quran was verified and written down in the lifetime of Muhammad(peace be upon him). If Bible is contrary, there is no way you can be sure it is not changed or corrupted. This is what gave birth to different versions of the Bible. But we only have one Quran in Arabic. Got it?

Congrats! However, we have the Law and the Prophets to verify with! That is one of the basis by which it is easy to recognise the ones tampered with! Besides, the Spirit sent by Jesus leads us into all Truth!

Yes?. How then they changed the Laws?. For instance, pork is forbidden, there is serious punishment for adultery and so on. But all these are neglected by NT and Christians.

Now what is the goal of the law?
1. Kindly prove the prohibition of pork and name the punishment for it according to the Law.
2. Adulterers etc who do not repent will be condemned by God's judgement! The reply of Christ to those who wanted to stone the adulteress deserves your earnest consideration! In the NT, lust in the heart attracts the same judgement as adultery! I think that is higher.

Besides, sincerely answer this, what pleases God? External conformity with forms and rites or love from the heart that expresses itself in obedience and a passionate hatred for those things God hates and a determination to avoid them because you want to please Him? (
Grace through Jesus does the latter, religion of laws and forms/rites demands the former )

And you telling me it has not changed?. If Jesus as you rightly said referred to OT, and nothing suggest he changed the Law rather he fulfilled it, then why did NT is absent or almost absent or devoid of Law and punishments?. Can you see clearly what Muslims are saying ow?

bs

And who is qualified to punish his fellow man for sins in the light of the higher righteous standard revealed in the New Testament? WHO?

The New testament demands not just outward conformity while the heart is black and full of all hypocrisies etc It provides a transformation of heart that enables outward conformity! Else why:

Will God command me to stone a brother to death who backslides when I might as well have backslidden in heart long ago?
Will God command the murderer to be stoned to death when there are just as many among the executioners with hatred in their hearts?
(Murder=hate in the NT; they get the same judgement from God)
If A was a terrible criminal and A was saved by Grace, on what grounds would God ask A to kill other criminals? Was A ever better than they? Was it not His grace that changed A to a righteous person?

Muafrika2:
Its very serious. Not every other person can just wake up and literally captivate and entice an entire world in the time and space that this has happened.

That is because of the spirit by which he speaks. Paul spake of:

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2 Corinth 11:4

We have to be careful. My joy, though, is that Moses' rod will always swallow the counterfeits!!!

holymayor5:
According to bible if u're sinner, u're goin to hellfire and also bible said u should not serve other gods apart from Him. What now are the hope of people servin OGUN, SANGO, OSUN e.t.c durin 1902 and co. Before bible or christ message enter there town.

I am sure the Gospel got to them! Before the Europeans etc came, the Gospel was already flourishing seriously in Africa so I am persuaded they had their fill! What I cannot say is their response thereto!

Muafrika2:
I don't hate him. In fact, he's a good preacher. But listening to his summons If you have never bothered to open up the bible for yourself can lead to misinformation.

He has a habit of throwing around scripturally baseless positions amongst his scriptural ones.

In an age with poor reading culture, could this be dismissed with a wave of hand?

This is what John called the spirit of the antichrist!

While the false Christ is merely a pretender to the Messianic office, the Antichrist "assails Christ by proposing to do or to preserve what he did, while denying Him." Antichrist, then, is one who opposes Christ in the guise of Christ.
Vincent Bible Studies

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother
Galatians 1:19

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?
Mark 6:3

Did Jesus read the OT books? YES HE referred to them and quoted therefrom many times!

The Gospels were His memoirs and (for want of another word) biography written after His death, resurrection and Ascension! The Epistles were Inspired letters written to instruct the Churches and/or Ministers.

Since all the writings took place after His ascension , how would He read them? But do the Gospels and Epistles agree to the OT that Christ read and refer to( even after Resurrection)? YES!!!

It's quite similar to attempting to refute the biography of a great man written after his death on the grounds that he did not read it!!!

malvisguy212:
honestly bro, the devil has really fool this people. The verse the op quote was misquote by satan in the book of psalm, this atheists are following the footsteps of their father the devil.

Psalms 91
91:10 There shall no evil befall thee,
neither shall any plague come nigh thy
dwelling.
91:11 For he shall give his angels charge
over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
91:12 They shall bear thee up in their
hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a
stone.
91:13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and
adder: the young lion and the dragon
shalt thou trample under feet.
91:14 Because he hath set his love upon
me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set
him on high, because he hath known my
name.
91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will
answer him: I will be with him in trouble;
I will deliver him, and honour him.
91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and
shew him my salvation.

Indeed, it has always been the devil's antic! If thou be the Son of God, turn stone to bread!