₦airaland Forum

AlBaqir:
Sadaqa 'Allahu al-Kareem. Here Allah clearly highlight@underline. Who are the "believers"?
I have given you an ayah before : *They do not doubt after they have believed. There are other attributes spelt out in the Qur'an as well. So it depend on who meet those attributes based on what is documented about them.



First, If the message of Muhammad (peace be upon him and his household) is timeless, then the first receipents of the message are the sahaba themselves. So the Prophet was actually addressing and warning his companions about "his companions"

* This give a clue that the word "my companions" in this hadith, and other ahadith {e.g hadith that says some companions will be showed the way to hell-fire, whereby the prophet will exclaim: MY COMPANIONS, MY COMPANIONS! And it will be said to him "They have Apostatized and innovate after you left them}, do not refer to every tom, dick and harry sahaba.

Second, Qur'an repeatedly exposed that there are Munafiq (hypocrites) among the companions of the holy Prophet; Allah not only rebuked them but also cursed them. There are also these 12 - 14 sahaba who planned to assassinate the holy Prophet until Allah exposed them. Then, there are also those sahabas who accused the Prophet of Madness and talking nonsense, on his death-bed...Are those also part of the above-mentioned sahaba we are warned not to hate, talk ill about, Mr Sino?

Third, the hadith is crystal clear for the Prophet conditioned their love with his. Thereby, these "companions" must be a true follower of Prophet, a true lover of the Prophet not those who doubt his prophethood, ran away from war thereby exposed prophet to severe danger, plot against him, accused him of madness etc.

A Case Study Of That "My Companion"
Imam Muslim in his Sahih under the "Merits of Ali", document that Mu'awiyyah Ibn Abi Sufyan ordered Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas to CURSE 'Ali ibn Abi Talib (as). Sa'd refused to do so and he tender 3 "exceptional Merits"(in his words) of 'Ali that makes it difficult for him to curse or abuse 'Ali.
Does 'Ali deserve and continue to deserve this merits is subject to scrutiny!

*There are so much examples in this regard.
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Indeed, you have shown some of those that you criticize on here, but I see the reasons you have given here to criticize some of these companions (such as Umar (ra)) as inadequate and shallow. For example, Allah (SWT) says there were hypocrites amongst them, did He (jalla jalaaluhu) mentioned them by name?! Do you have the list of hypocrites from the companions of the Prophet (SAW)? I am very interested in this list as well if you have…

Here is an insightful post on hypocrisy and how to talk about it, using the Qur’an and Sunnah.

A few points to note

i. You and I can NEVER judge someone as a hypocrite, we do not have that right, It does not matter how clear their actions are… We do not have the license to call anyone a hypocrite. This religion did not give us that sanction.

There are two kinds of hypocrites

a. Hypocrites that know that they are not muslim, they are only prtending to be muslim ex: spies

b. The second type of hypocrite is the one that has no idea that he is a hypocrite. This is the scarier kind because it could be anyone of us… None of us are safe…

So
i. you can’t label anyone a hypocrite

ii. We can’t keep ourselves safe from that label… We can’t assume that we are safe from hypocrisy..

Al-Hasan Al-Basri said about hypocrisy, “No one fears it but a believer, and no one feels safe from it but a hypocrite.”

‘Umar ibn Al-Khattaab used to ask Huthayfah ibn Al-Yamaan saying, “Did the Messenger of Allaah , mention me to you among (the names of) the hypocrites?” Huthayfah replied in the negative.

The prophet gave Huthayfah the names of hypocrites and umar was scared, he was part of them…
This is Umar that was guaranteed Jannah. That is a believer.

It is narrated in a Hadeeth (narration) that Ibn Abi Mulaykah said, “I have witnessed thirty of the companions of the Prophet , all of them feared falling into hypocrisy.” [Al-Bukhaari]

iii. You might see attributes of hypocrisy that are mentioned in the Quran in people but you are still not allowed to call them hypocrites.

This is clear from a hadith where the muslims were involved in a battle (a raid) and usama bin Zaid and an ansar killed a man even after he said his shahada because they felt he was not sincere and he was just doing it to save himself. When the prophet heard about this, He (the Holy Prophet) said: Did you check inside his heart to find out whether he said it (out of fear) or not? In another narration he said: Did you kill him after he had made the profession that there is no god but Allah? He was upset and kept on repeating this such that Usama wished he had not embraced Islam before that day. ( the narration can be found in Bukhari & muslim) (Muslim Found in: Faith (Kitab Al Iman) Hadith no: 176 &177)

Obviously the man is trying to save his skin but even in this clear instance, you cannot say he is a hypocrite.

So when we hear these things about hypocrites, there are two attitudes, a. you start thinking of someone else or b. you look within yourself.

The believers attitude as he is reading this is : Is this me?

This is correct attitude…. May Allah protect us from hypocrisy…

you can read more here: https://www.nairaland.com/1152172/hypocrisy-discussion-surah-baqarah

AlBaqir:
Here's the footnotes to this hadith:
بل السند ضعيف جدا
It is a da'eef chain"
http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/

But for the sake of Argument, should the hadith be Sahih/Hassan, it has to be treated in line with the previous hadith you posted in Bihar al-Anwar.
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Okay i see, and so my reply to your post about the previous hadith also stands for this as well.

AlBaqir:
Kafir? Absolutely NO! He definitely died a Muslim with all the conditions of being a Muslim. Anything outside this, I do not believe.

Imam ibn Hibban (d. 354H) records the Treaty of al-Hudaybiyyah (6AH):
"So, Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said (about the Day of al-Hudaybiyyah): "By Allah! I never doubted since I accepted Islam EXCEPT on that day. So I went to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said, 'Are you not truly the Messenger of Allah?"
~Sahih Ibn Hibban bi Tartib Ibn Balban, vol. 11, p. 216, #4872.

'Allamah al-Albani comments: Sahih
Sheik Shua'ib al-Arnaut: It is sahih.
[Both as annotators of the above reference]

This is doubting the Prophethood of Muhammad.
Conversely, Qur'an says:
"The Mu'min are those who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and do not doubt afterwards..." ~Quran 49:15

So there's difference between Muslim and Mu'min.

* Oh Oh Oh...he has repented after that, and Allah has forgiven him...!

#Is there evidence of this? The reverse is the case as far as Qur'an and ahadith are concern. What came to mind are Battle of Khaybar (7AH), he ran away; Battle of Hunain (8/9AH), he was among the runners; then, incident of surah al-Hujurat (9AH); at the deathbed of the Prophet; Even of Saqifa of Bani Saidah after the demise of the holy Prophet. {I reserve my comments brother lest you accuse Albaqir of cursing or abusing Umar}.

Oh you don’t need to write more, you had already written enough, so in your own words, Umar (ra) is just a Muslim, and not a Mum’in because he doubted, well, I can’t be a party to such statements, for I have read and learnt the following…

"Yet another example is when Ibrahim said: "My Rabb! Show me how you give life to the dead." He replied: "Have you no faith in this?" Ibrahim humbly submitted: "Yes! But I ask this to reassure my heart." Allah said: "Take four birds; train them to follow your direction, cut their bodies into pieces and scatter those pieces on hilltops then call them back; Allah will bring them back to life and they will come to you right away. Thus you will know that Allah is All-powerful and Wise." (Q 2:260)

Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(We are more liable to be in doubt than Ibrahim when he said, "My Lord! Show me how You give life to the dead.'' Allah said, "Don't you believe'' Ibrahim said, "Yes (I believe), but (I ask) in order to be stronger in faith.'')

The Prophet's statement in the Hadith means, "We are more liable to seek certainty.''

A Yoruba proverb says “a gbo ejo eti kan da, agba oshika ni” meaning basing a judgment on just one person’s narration, is a great evil or wickedness, you have presented a narration from Umar (ra) which looks incomplete, there is no report of where the Prophet (SAW) gave a response nor does it show that Umar still continued to doubt the Messanger, are you trying to say the Prophet (SAW) would ignore such a question from his sahabah and leave him in doubt? What are you trying to insinuate Albaqir?! That the Prophet (SAW) didn’t care?! (audhubillah!).
Sometimes I become perplexed by some of your submissions, the danger in your statements are far greater than the wrong of the person in which you are criticizing. And if indeed it was certainty Umar (ra) was seeking from the prophet (SAW) as Ibrahim (as) did in the Qur’an, what then would you say when you stand in front of Allah (SWT) on judgement day? Alhamdulilah you said you believe Umar (ra) died a Muslim; tell me Albaqir, what are your responsibilities towards your Muslim brother, dead or alive as instructed by Allah (SWT) and his Prophet (SAW)?!

عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ الْكَلْبِيِّ ، قَالَ قَالَ جَعْفَرُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ إِذَا بَلَغَكَ عَنْ أَخِيكَ الشَّيْءُ تُنْكِرُهُ فَالْتَمِسْ لَهُ عُذْرًا وَاحِدًا إِلَى سَبْعِينَ عُذْرًا فَإِنْ أَصَبْتَهُ وَإِلا قُلْ لَعَلَّ لَهُ عُذْرًا لا أَعْرِفُهُ
7853 شعب الإيمان للبيهقي السابع والخمسون من شعب الإيمان وهو … فصل في ترك الغضب وفي كظم الغيظ والعفو عند

Hisham ibn Al-Kalbi reported: Ja’far ibn Muhammad said, “If you hear something from your brother that you reject, then make an excuse for him up to seventy excuses. If you cannot do it, then say: Perhaps he has an excuse I do not know.”
Source: Shu’b Al-Iman 7853

Narrated Aisha
The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Don't abuse the dead, because they have reached the result of what they forwarded."
Narrated Anas bin Malik
The Prophet was not one who would abuse (others) or say obscene words, or curse (others), and if he wanted to admonish anyone of us, he used to say: "What is wrong with him, his forehead be dusted!" (Sahih Bukhari)

Narrated Sa'id ibn Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl
Rabah ibn al-Harith said: I was sitting with someone in the mosque of Kufah while the people of Kufah were with him. Then Sa'id ibn Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl came and he welcomed him, greeted him, and seated him near his foot on the throne. Then a man of the inhabitants of Kufah, called Qays ibn Alqamah, came. He received him and began to abuse him. Sa'id asked: Whom is this man abusing? He replied: He is abusing Ali. He said: Don't I see that the companions of the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) are being abused, but you neither stop it nor do anything about it? I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say--and I need not say for him anything which he did not say, and then he would ask me tomorrow when I see him --AbuBakr will go to Paradise and Umar will go to Paradise. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect (as in No. 4632). He then said: The company of one of their man whose face has been covered with dust by the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) is better than the actions of one of you for a whole life time even if he is granted the life-span of Noah (Sunan Abu Dawood)

In his speech to Mufaddhal ibn `Umar, Imam Ja`far ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq (peace be upon him) said:
مَنْ رَوَى عَلى مُؤْمِنٍ رِوٌايَةً يُرِيدُ بِهٌا شَيْنَهُ وَ هَدْمَ مُرُوؤَتَهُ لِيُسْقِطَهُ مِنْ أَعْيُنِ النٌّاسِ أَخْرَجَهُ اللٌّهُ مِنْ وِلاٌيَتِهِ إِلـى وِلاٌيِةِ الشَّيْطٌانِ
“A person who talks about a believer’s conduct hoping that through this act, he is able to lower the other person’s value and worth in the eyes of others will be taken out of the guardianship of Allah and will be placed in the guardianship of the Shaitan.” Al-Mahajjat al-Baydha, Volume 5, Page 155.

AlBaqir:
Did I formulate anything about Umar myself? My crime as always been I do not buy the interpretations of Sunni Ulama to justify many ahadith that expose him.

You see the difference between you and I is that Albaqir search the truth at the expense of any personality. My Mawla and the Mawla of every believers says {"Search the truth, and you will recognize its people"}.
On the other hand, you want to reach the truth through personalities. Only Muhammad (peace be upon him and his household) fit that category.
"And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth while you know." ~sura al-Baqarah:42

The position Umar ibn al-Khattab occupied made him centre of attraction. One can turn apostate or believer in the character of Umar's Khilafa, if not carefully study. This is the issue of Khilafa whose obedience is synonymous to the holy Prophet as stated in the Qur'an. The chaos, fights and sectarian muslims find themselves today was originated by him and his like thinking the "evil" had been averted.

Imam al-Bukhari records:
"Ibn Abbas: I used to teach qirat to some men...'Abd al-Rahman came to me and said, "If only you had seen a man who came to Amir al-Muminin today, saying: "O Amir al-Muminin! What do you say about so-and-so? He says, "When Umar dies, I will pledge allegiance to so-and-so, for, I swear by Allah, the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was nothing but an ERROR and it succeeded"

So, Umar became angry...sat on the pulpit...praised Allah as He deserved. Then he said: "I have been informed that a speaker amongst you says, 'When Umar dies, I will pledge allegiance to so-and-so.' One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was an error and it succeeded. NO DOUBT, IT WAS SURELY LIKE THAT. However, Allah saved from its EVIL...Ansar opposed us and gathered, all of them, at Saqifah Bani Sa'idah; and 'Ali, al-Zubayr and whoever was with them both, also opposed us; and the Muhajiruns gathered towards Abu Bakr..."
~Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 6, p. 2503, #6442.

In fact, same Sahih al-Bukhari documented 'Ali NEVER recognized the Khilafa of Abu Bakr until after six months, ONLY when people were expressing animosity towards him.{Sahih bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 546}.

Yet after that conditioned allegiance and recognition of Abu Bakr's Khilafa, Imam Muslim in his Sahih documented Imam 'Ali's thought of the two. Sahih Muslim quotes 'Umar saying to both Imam 'Ali and al-Abbas:
"When the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, died, Abu Bakr said: "I am the wali of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him."...So both of you ('Ali and Abbas) thought him (i.e Abu Bakr) to be a LIAR, SINFUL, a TRAITOR and DISHONEST. And Allah knows that he was really truthful, pious, rightly-guided and a follower of the truth. Abu Bakr died and I became the wali of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and the wali of the Abu Bakr. So both of you thought me to be a LIAR, SINFUL, a TRAITOR and DISHONEST.
~Sahih Muslim, vol. 3, p. 1376, #1757

These are very long ahadith, but my point is the Evil their Khaliphacy brought to this Ummah was never averted. It continues till date to the point of bloodshed. Prophet was clear in his statement {"I left for you TWO KHALIFAs so long you follow them, you will NEVER go astray; the Book of Allah...and my progeny, my ahl al-bayt..."}.
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Indeed you may not formulate, and I will not bother responding to the narrations you have presented for I have been able to come up with counter arguments to narrations presented prior these ones. And from the Qur’an and sunnah, as well as from your Shi’a books I had and will still show how to relate with Muslims, especially the companions of the Prophet (SAW).

Please tell Albaqir, how did Ali (ra) relate with Umar (ra)? Did he call him an innovator? Did he call him a less Muslim than himself? Did he even revert or criticize any of the so called innovations and atrocities Umar (ra) and other caliph that preceded him committed? I am most interested in such narrations.

Ali (ra) says:
لقد رأيت أصحاب محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم، فما أرى أحداً يشبههم، لقد كانوا يصبحون شعثاً غبراً، وقد باتوا سجداً وقياماً، يراوحون بين جباههم وخدودهم، ويقفون على مثل الجمر من ذكر معادهم، كأن بين أعينهم ركب المعزى من طول سجودهم، إذا ذكر الله هملت أعينهم حتى تبل جيوبهم، ومادوا كما يميد الشجر يوم الريح العاصف خوفاً من العقاب ورجاءً للثواب

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind. [Nahjul Balagha, sermon 96]

وروى المجلسي عن الطوسي رواية موثوقة عن الإمام علي كرم الله وجهه أنه قال لأصحابه: أوصيكم في أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم: لا تسبوهم؛ فإنهم أصحاب نبيكم، وهم أصحابه الذين لم يبتدعوا في الدين شيئاً، ولم يوقروا صاحب بدعة، نعم! أوصاني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في هؤلاء

Shia scholar Majlisi has narrated from Tusi who has narrated a Muwathaq tradition, from Ali that he said “I order you regarding the companions of the Prophet (s) , don’t criticize them, because they are the companions of your Prophet (s). They are his companions, they didn’t start any bidah in the religion, nor given honor to any innovator. Yes! The Prophet (s) has ordered me regarding them.
Hayat ul Qulub , Vol. 2, p. 621

The above is the same narration you said is daeef due to some majhul (unknown) chain, but reported here to be thiqa (trustworthy) chain…

Sheikh Saduq (a shi’a scholar) in his book “Khisal” narrated:
كان أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله اثنى عشر ألف رجل
28-5 حدثنا أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا علي ابن إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن أبيه، عن محمد بن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: كان أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله اثني عشر ألفا ثمانية آلاف من المدينة، وألفان من مكة، وألفان من الطلقاء، ولم ير فيهم قدري ولا مرجي ولا حروري ولا معتزلي، ولا صحاب رأي، كانوا يبكون الليل والنهار ويقولون: اقبض أرواحنا من قبل أن نأكل خبز الخمير.
THERE WERE TWELVE THOUSAND COMPANIONS OF THE PROPHET
28-5 Ahmad ibn Zyad ibn Ja’far al-Hamedany – may God be pleased with him – narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashim quoted his father, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr, on the authority of Hisham ibn Salim that Aba Abdullah as-Sadiq (alaihi salam) said, “There were twelve-thousand companions for God’s Prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ali). Eight-thousand of them were from Medina, two-thousand of them were from Mecca and another two-thousand of them were the free atheist who had become Muslims. There were no Qadarites, Marajites, Kharajites, Mo’tazelites, nor any who act according to their own opinions. They cried day and night and said, ‘O God! Please take away our souls before we eat barley bread”.

The above are all from Shi’a books, all narrations I have read from both sunni and shi’a have used companions (generally), they didn’t segregate them, they didn’t say some were this and others were that, and I don’t know how you get those you need to curse and criticize, for I leave that to Allah (SWT), they are dead, and their deeds are well recorded with Allah (SWT) and they are being rewarded.

The rule of not criticizing/abusing the companion is general! If by narrations in which we can argue back and forth, criticize to be weak or even fabricated are what you base your license to curse and abuse and criticize some sahabah, then you are on your own…if I choose to pray for all the companions of the prophet (SAW) (and not curse some of them in which the shi’a curse), have I become a kafir?! I pray for Nigeria generally, some are kafirs who are even plotting against Islam; would that withhold Allah’s punishment for such?!

Abu Lahb is continually cursed because Allah specifically revealed a surrah on him and his wife, so is Shaitan (la), Albaqir, give me the names of these sahabas to be cursed, give me a narration from Ali (ra) or the Imams where they cursed these sahabas, even when the Prophet (SAW) was stoned at taif by the Mushriks and he bled till his shoes were filled with blood, he didn’t curse them, he rather prayed for them…I want to be like Muhammad (SAW), He is my example, the best of example to emulate and follow.

AlBaqir:
Whatever they are praying, which to me is not condemnable, is definitely not Muhammad's commanded and practiced Qiyam Layl.

First, there is no doubt many Sahaba innovated after the demise of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household).

Imam al-Bukhari:
Ahmad b. Ishkab - Muhammad b. Fudayl - al-'Ala b. Al-Musayyab - his father (al-Musayyab):
"I met al-Bara b. Azib and I said, "Congratulations to you! You kept company of the prophet, peace be upon him, and gave him ba'yah under the tree.' As a result of this, he replied, "O son of my brother, you do not know what WE HAVE
INNOVATED after him."
~Sahih al-Bukhari vol.4 p. 1529, #3937

NB: But we need to be extra careful as not all "innovations" can be condemned. Some are good. In fact I do not even see anything Nawafil as Bid'ah just because we don't see evidence that prophet did it unless for what is obvious like reciting salat fatih instead of sura al-Fatiha.

Please can you list the innovations this Sahabah was referring to? Was he referring to himself alone or the entirety of the sahabas? And Alhamdulilah you placed the note, but I would say, perhaps what he (ra) thought to be innovations, were matters that has nothing to do with the deen

From what I have learnt about the Sahabas, they were the most cautious in regards to the deen and the most humble of people, who fear praise and any form of actions that would taint them in front of Allah (SWT), they feared innovation and would warn against it.

As it was presented by Ibn Taymiyah, Bid'ah is either defined literally, or thechnically, which is the Shari'ah's definition.

AlBaqir:
Second, the statement of Umar "That which they will sleep before praying is better than this one they are praying" testify they are not praying Tahajjud/Qiyam layl. Whatever they are praying is born out of their discretions, No Problem here.

Third, there are excuses we can infer as well.
* Those sahaba might be among the ahl saffah - the destitute whose house is the Prophet's mosque.
* Some might secluded himself in the mosque, being Ramadhan, and the adab of staying in the mosque is do not be redundant. Find something rewarding doing.

* These are my excuses for them especially when we dissect the prophet's specific saying "So, you people should go and pray at home, for the prayer of a person at home is BEST except the obligatory prayers".

Don't try to be cunning brother. Technically both are prayed 'after' salat Ishai. The difference is highlighted even in the wording of Umar himself when he said: {BUT THE PRAYER WHICH THEY DO NOT PERFORM BUT SLEEP AT ITS TIME IS BETTER THAN THE ONE THEY ARE OFFERING.’
He meant the prayer in the last part of the night (Tahajjud)."}
~Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 32, No 227

* And that is the command of Allah in the Qur'an as highlighted in the OP. And that is the Sunnah of Muhammad. Sleep after salat Ishai then wake up to pray. (or delayed till mid-night): 1/2 of the night, 1/3 of the night, 1/4 later part of the night = all these are specified in sura al-Mudassir.

* Tarawih of Umar, even as seen being followed till date has nothing to do with Tahajjud of the Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad.

Narrated Abu Huraira
I heard Allah's Apostle saying regarding Ramadan, "Whoever prayed at night in it (the month of Ramadan) out of sincere faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." (Sahih Bukhari)

Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar's Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one qari (reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."

These two hadiths from sahih bukhari clearly shows the prayers the sahabas were offering was qiyam layl (also known as tahajjud), the merit of this prayer is established, and in this case, in the month of Ramadan hence the yearning of the sahabas towards it in ramadan. The sahabas prayed with the Prophet (SAW) in congregation before he instructed them to pray at home, and the reason being the fear of such prayers becoming obligatory on them. I wonder where the bid’ah in regards to what had taken place during the life time of the Prophet (SAW). Do we need to start defining night to understand that the prayer is the same? Trying to say they are different prayers, is what seems deceitful. We can see that a plausible reason for the comment of Umar (ra) was as a result of them praying early, and then sleeping at the time the Prophet (SAW) usually observed it. And this buttressed what I had written on the jinn thread about the fact that what the prophet (SAW) prescribed/observed in non obligatory acts, is far superior to whatever anyone can bring. Umar (ra) understood this, and thus his statement, but he didn’t rebuke them for it was Ramadan, the nights are for qiyam, while the days are for fasting, and the rewards are enormous…Now we can understand why some Islamic scholars such as Sheikh Fawzan et al., would never classify this act of Umar(ra) as a bid’ah in the shari’ah definition, but rather say what was meant is in the literal definition.

So using this to support other innovations such as eid maulud which has no basis in the shari’ah, is wrong and farfetched. And when I say eid (festival), I mean the eid as defined in the shari’ah, an act of worship with rules and guidelines.

AlBaqir:
There are lots of hadith placed by the compilers under an heading yet have nothing to do with the headings.

Then, there are lots of headings giving to set of hadith that do not fit the content of those ahadith.

If you do study books of ahadith, you can easily confirm this.

* It might be deliberate or not deliberate by the compiler especially the former when such hadith has things to do with his aqeedah.

Seriously?! Hadiths with Ramadan or fasting in its content gives us the clue that it is being in the right category, also, these compilers are not just some regular dude with no knowledge, agreed, they may make mistakes, but they are scholars, who traveled wide, and studied deep, I don’t think they just come up with flimsy excuses to put an hadith under a particular heading without proper research and understanding of what that hadith is talking about.

AlBaqir:
Yes there is specific number for Prophet's Tahajjud. Anything outside it is definitely not Tahajjud but other form of personal or among other prophet's nawafil e.g You might decided to observe Salat Tasbih (4rakah), Salat Hajah (2rakah) in the mid-night before Salat Tahajjud. All of them are among Prophet's Sunnah.

As per Tahajjud, here's 'Aisha:
[color=990000]Narrated Abu Salma bin ‘Abdur Rahman: I asked ‘Aisha, “How is the prayer of Allah’s Apostle during the month of Ramadan.” She said, “Allah’s Apostle never exceeded eleven Rakat in Ramadan or in other months; [i.e. throughout whole year] he used to offer four Rakat– do not ask me about their beauty and length, then four Rakat, do not ask me about their beauty and length, and then three Rakat.” Aisha further said, “I said, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Do you sleep before offering the Witr prayer?’ He replied, ‘O ‘Aisha! My eyes sleep but my heart remains awake’!”[/color]
~Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 21, No.248
***************

Abegi give me a narration where the Prophet (SAW) fixed the number of rakah for tahajjud, any other talk is theory, in which I can counter, is tahajjud obligatory on us?! If no, then if we pray more than what the prophet did, is it bid’ah? Did we not agree that we can do more non obligatory prayers if we have the capacity? Didn’t the Prophet say in a particular hadith that he makes istighfar 100 times in a day, if I do more than that, is it bid’ah?! Now you should get the difference between the shari’ah definition and the literal definition…

AlBaqir:
What athar reported is Umar established 20Rakah, but technically especially going by his ruling on Mut'a where he attached punishment of stoning for whoever practice it, we can infer he made it no obligatory. But you can "appreciate" how much importance people attached to it today esp in places like Saudi Arabia, and our local society et al. People even go as far as completing the whole Qur'an during Tarawih for the month.

Bro it is Ramadan, who wants to be left out in Allah’s bounties?! If there is no narration that Umar(ra) made it mandatory, then there is no issue. In the Masjid I pray and behind my Sheikhs and ustaz, we observe only 10, in fact, we do not finish the Qur’an, we use selected chapters and verses… is there a reason why 20? It can be due to the fact that they intend to finish the whole Qur’an in a month or want to increase their ibadah in the month of ramadan

AlBaqir:
Aamin to your prayer while I prayed the same, even more for you akhi.

Yes not everything is documented but in the case of Umar and Ammar vs Tayammum, ALL we need to know regarding conditions of Tayammum is documented coupled with explicit order of the Qur'an.



@Bolds kindly follow me while we analyze what is OBVIOUS except we intend to close the door of our reasoning just for emotional feeling for some persons.
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Tayammum is documented with its condition CLEARLY STATED in the holy Qur'an. Twice, Allah mentions Tayammum. So there's no excuse whatsoever for anybody.

The statements of Allah on Tayamum reads:
"O you who believe! When you intend to offer As-Salat (the prayer), wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, rub your heads, and your feet up to ankles. If you are in a state of Janaba, purify yourself. But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women AND YOU FIND NO WATER, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful."

You can even appreciate how other sahaba cited the Sunnah of the Prophet and a clear ayah of Tayammum for the sahaba who ruled NO prayer. And amazingly, his defence was the fact Umar did not satisfy with Ammar's reminder. Qur'an is emphatic concerning Allah's divine ruling:
"...And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the
wrongdoers.

...And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the
defiantly disobedient."
~sura al-Maidah: 44 - 48

This is my submission.

Ameen, Jazakumullahu khayran for the prayer.

I believe this is a fiqh issue and should be looked at carefully my emotions are not important, and should I remind you of the reasons given about the narrations of the Imams in some shi’a books about mut’a being haram (forbidden) even when the shi’a believed it to be permitted by Allah (SWT) in the Qur'an? Cleanliness (At-taharah) is an aspect of fiqh, we know that water is the best for purification, and dust is used only when water cannot be found or when such an individual is sick and cannot use water for purification. You do not know the conditions that warranted Umar’s statement to the questioner. Or do you? Even, salah, the five obligatory prayers can be haram for someone, so unless you get the facts, quoting just one hadith, and then jumping into conclusion in regards to Umar (ra), is plainly shallow I must say.

“…Muslim (368) narrated that a man came to ‘Umar and said: “I have become junub and I cannot find any water.” He said: “Do not pray.” ‘Ammaar said: “Do you not remember, O Ameer al-Mu’mineen, when you and I were on a campaign and we become junub, and we could not find any water? You did not pray, but I rolled in the dust and prayed, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘It would have been sufficient if you had struck the ground with your hands then wiped your face and hands with them.’” ‘Umar said: “Fear Allaah, O ‘Ammaar!” He said, “If you wish I will not narrate it.” ‘Umar said: “We accept what you say.” According to another report, ‘Ammaar said: “O Ameer al-Mu’mineen, if you wish, because of your position, I will not tell it to anyone.”
‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) had forgotten that event.

“ ‘Umar said: ‘Fear Allaah, O ‘Ammaar!’” – What this means is that ‘Umar said to ‘Ammaar: Fear Allaah with regard to what you are narrating, for perhaps you have forgotten or become confused. With regard to ‘Ammaar saying, “If you wish I will not narrate it,” what this means – and Allaah knows best – is: If you think it is better for me to refrain from narrating it than to narrate it, then I will refrain, because it is obligatory for me to obey you so long as that does not involve sin. The basic principle with regard to conveying knowledge had already been fulfilled, and if he had withheld this hadeeth after that, he would not have come under the heading of those who withhold knowledge. It may be that he meant, ‘I will not broadcast it so that it becomes well known among people, rather I will only narrate it rarely.’ This was stated by al-Nawawi.
“ ‘Umar said “We accept what you say” – i.e., the fact that I do not remember it does not means that it is not true, and I have no right to stop you narrating it. This was stated by al-Haafiz in Fath al-Baari.” http://islamqa.info/en/40204

I have not read anyone ruling (in our present time) that you cannot perform tayamum based on Umar's ruling...

And Allah SWT knows best

AlBaqir:
Illahi ameen. Thanks for the du'a brother. I appreciate it and pray more for you and all muslims.

Ameen, Jazakumullahu khayran

AlBaqir:
Ma sha Allah. May Allah purify your heart more for the love of Muhammad (peace be on him and his household). Rabiul awwal 12th - 17th is usually declare Unity week in Iran. Here, the government used to invite scholars from various sects and Nations, Christians and Jewish scholars too are never left out. And the deliberation is nothing other than personality of Muhammad. Isn't this a good act than declaring Mawlud to bid'ah?
**********

Indeed, it is a laudable effort, in the Masjid i offer Jumu'ah, what my Sheikh usually do every month of milad, is to devote the khutbah for the biography of the Prophet (SAW), and this is no bid'ah. But making the day a eid, a holy day, is what is being contested, and rightly categorized as a bid'ah and i will present the argument in my subsequent posts...

AlBaqir:
You have misjudge my point of argument in these posts pertaining to "Mawlud Nabiyy". MrOlai also misjudge perhaps due to initial accusations.

Why does Umar came into the fore? Its about his classification of Tarawih under "Bid'ah Hassana (good innovation)". I believe truly in that.

Last year tbaba1234 ironed out this tarawih misconception at maclatunji's side talk show. I stated it clearly there that I do not see any evil in observing tarawih, only that it is not a sunnah of Muhammad as sunni want us to believe.
www.nairaland.com/1794405/islam-muslims-side-talk-station/1#down

However when sheik like Saalih Fawzan and his likes continue arguing there's nothing like "good innovation", that Bid'ah is Bid'ah; and that what Umar meant by the statement is just linguistic, then I found it disgusting and dishonest.

So technically I used Umar's "Good Innovation" to support my argument (about Mawlud) rather than condemning him.
***********

Sheikh Ibn Taimiyah in his book “The Right Way” states:

“Innovations are always undesirable. This point should be grasped as general rulings and principles of the religion. However, some people tend to categorize innovations under two heads: good and bad. In order to substantiate their claim they refer to this remark of Umar about Taraweeh prayer: “How good this innovation is?” ….As to the opponents they may take only the two positions: Either they should hold that once it is established that some innovations are good and others are bad, the bad one is that which has been forbidden by Shariah. As to the innovations about which Shariah is silent, they are not bad but may possibly be good.

Or, they should say that such innovations are good in view of such and such advantages. That is, they do not hold the faith that each innovation is error.

Our stance is that it is reported in authentic Hadith:
“The worst deeds are innovation. Each innovation is error.”
These are unmistakable statements of the Prophet (SAW) regarding innovations. It is not, therefore, proper for anyone to reject Hadith. One guilty of it is in error.

The opponents may, however, argue that if something is endorsed by Shariah, it cannot be regarded as innovation. Given this, a general principle (each innovation is error) will be followed without making any exception. Or a practice of which sanctity is established, would be taken as an exception. And it is well known that the general principle is always applicable except in its exceptional cases. Otherwise every innovation would be held as an error according to the general ruling.

So those who believe that certain innovations are exceptions, the onus lies on them for producing sound argument in defence of innovations. Otherwise every innovation would be held as an error according to the general rule.

It should be realized that the arguments which exempt something from general principles should be based on Shariah. In orther words, these should be drawn from The Qur’an, Sunnah and consensus, whether directly or by implication. The views and practices of certain communities and persons cannot in any way supersede the Prophet’s saying.”

“taraweeh prayer is not an innovation. That it is Sunnah is evident from Prophet’s words and deeds, for he said:
“Allah has made fasting in Ramadan obligatory; and prayer therein is sunnah.”
In the early part of Ramadan the Prophet (SAW) led congregational Taraweeh prayer three nights and he repeated the same on the last nights of Ramadan, saying:

“when one prays behind Imam and stays till Imam finishes, he gets the reward for praying for the whole night.”
The above hadith is reported by many Muhadditheen; and Imam Ahmad has inferred from the same that it is better to offer Traweeh prayer in congregation than individually. This hadith obviously exhorts us to offer Taraweeh prayer in congregation hence it is a clear Sunnah. Moreover, the Prophet (SAW) did no object to the companions praying Traweeh in congregation. His silence and the continuance of the practice are themselves a proof that it is Sunnah.

As to Umar’s remark about Taraweeh that it is a good innovation, it leaves little room for the opponents to draw a fallacious conclusion. For, if on other occasions a religious command is mentioned with reference to the statement of Umar or any other companion, the very same persons declare that a companion’s statement is not a clinching argument. If this is the principle, Umar’s statements which contravenes the Prophet’s Sunnah cannot be a clinching argument. Moreover, those who regard a companion’s statement as a sound basis do concede the point that a statement which is contrary to Hadith cannot be reckoned. In any case it is not proper to cite a companion’s statement in opposition to Hadith. This is no doubt true that if a companion’s statement is not objected to by anyone, it may be used for making an exception to the general principle of hadith. In the light of the above what can be established, at most is that a particular innovation can be proved good. However, it leaves out other innovations.

We must reiterate the point Umar branded Taraweeh prayer as good innovation. He, however, used a literal expression, not a Shariah one. It is common knowledge that innovation stands for such acts which are done without precedence. In Shariah terminology, innovation signifies an act which does not have any basis in Shariah. So, if one practices an act in the light of the Prophet’s conduct after his death and follows the same, for example, a practice initiated by Abu Bakr, (issuing a book of charity) it may be literally described as innovation in that it did not have any precedence….However, an act which is endorsed by the Qur’an and Sunnah is not an innovation according to Shariah, though it may be literally considered as innovation. For the literal meaning of innovation is much more wide ranging than its definition in Shariah. Obiously, in the Prophet’s statement: “Each innovation is error,” innovation is not taken in its literal sense…on the contrary, the Prophet’s reference is to such acts which are not prescribed by Shariah.

Same holds true for treating the Prophet’s birthday as a sacred day. Muslims do so in imitation of the Christians who celebrate with much pomp and show Jesus’s birthday. They do so out of their love and respect for the Prophet (SAW). Allah would reward them for their love for the Prophet (SAW), but not for their innovation.
Nonetheless, it should not be celebrated as a holy day. First, there is divergence of opinion about the exact date of his birth. Moreover, early Muslims did not celebrate it as a holy day though they could do so and there was apparently no obstacle to it. Had it been a really good thing, early Muslims would have celebrated it. For they loved the Prophet (SAW) more than us and were more virtuous than us. Yet they did not do so.
(Sheikhul Islam Ibn Taymiyah.The Right Way, A summarised translation)

AlBaqir:
First, the translation of this hadith is faulty. It is "CURSE" not "criticize"@underline. Whoever has translated that did it deliberately to support his belief.
Besides, the hadith is daeef at the least. Looking at the full sanad, there are lots of names classified as "Majhool". Please read more here:
shiaonlinelibrary.com/

I find it quite interesting the ease of “daeefness” of narrations in your books that seems in synch with the sunni’s views, but what do I know about the shi’a’s science of hadith…

There is absolutely no fault in the translation of the word “sabb” to mean criticize, in my dictionary, these are the translations given: to insult, abuse, call names, revile, rail, to curse, to blaspheme, curse, swear some of these words are related to criticize….When you criticize someone wrongly and dubiously, then you have insulted, abused and reviled that person. In fact if I was to translate this narration, I would have used “abuse”.
There is also another hadith where the Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said “The abuse of a Muslim is a sin, and killing him is disbelief.”

Take note of the word Muslim in the above narration.

In this hadith, the same “sabb” word is used, you cannot abuse an ordinary Muslim, even if he sins, this was also the teaching of the best of mankind (SAW) when a sahabah abused a sinner (drunk) and the Prophet (SAW) reproached him not to do so but help his brother Muslim.

All in all, you are not allowed to abuse an ordinary Muslim, talk more of a companion of the prophet (SAW).

AlBaqir:
Second, if we accept this daeef hadith, it is still crystal clear in its message "Do not curse those who never innovated any innovation after him (the prophet) and they never supported any innovation". THIS EXCLUDE THE INNOVATORS. There are plenty Sunni ahadith that exposed many sahaba who innovated, and other ahadith from the prophet who foretold some known sahaba will innovate after him, and he will disown them on the day of judgment.

Third, Shi'i Mujtahid have repeatedly and continously declared CURSE sahaba (righteous or not) publicly as HARAM. Whatever you do at your private life, is between you and your lord. IN MY NL HISTORY SO FAR, ALBAQIR HAVE NEVER CURSE ANY SAHABA
Here's my thread on the fatwa of Shi'a Ulama that forbid Cursing sahaba:
www.nairaland.com/1903995/religious-authority-sistani-condemns-cursing

Please can you list the innovations of these "Sahabahs" that deserved to be cursed and the list of the sahabahs to be disowned by the Prophet (SAW) on judgement day? i am interested in their names...

AlBaqir:
Please anytime you comment or reply a thread, try to see beyond yourself. Threads and posts are viewed beyond two people. That has always been my approach to responses. However, Hot or cold, long or short, in sha Allah I will try to be concise to avoid derailing from the main topic.

True, but in most cases, i can only speak for myself even though i know a lot of people share my beliefs. I know this is an open forum, posting here means it is not a discussion between me and you alone, the reason i find time to reply even when i am busy like a bumble bee ...Thanks for not derailing, but you have made some points that needs to be addressed a little which i believe is in line with the discussion at hand.

Empiree:
^You think sino have time for this ?. He rarely frequent nl lately. He only comes to drop[b] "time bomb"[/b] and disappears. I know you keep doing research to satisfy to thirst for ilm. That's good by the way.

@ bold you remind me of "you know who" and his friday pipe bombs

Actually, i am supposed to be in guest mode, i got a lot on my plate for now...May Allah (SWT) grant us His Tawfeeq ameen.

@Albaqir, i see you, but this topic is a done deal in my books, i see no new information....

@Albaqir, may Allah (SWT) Bless you and make you a better Muslim and everyone of us ameen.

You have good arguments about Milad, to me, whether we like it or not, The Prophet’s (SAW) birthday is a remarkable day, and if not for anything, we should make his life known to the world in the day/month that he was born and most importantly in everyday of our lives by following his Sunnah.

AlBaqir, you sometimes can’t help it I have noticed, you always like looking for the misguidance of Umar (ra) and Abu Bakr (ra). In your subsequent posts to argue in favour of your views, you decided to go the way which I must say is distasteful…May Allah (SWT) guide us aright amen.

First, I would like you to read and digest this narration below…

عن الصادق عن آبائه عن علي عليه السلام قال: «أوصيكم بأصحاب نبيكم لا تسبوهم، الذين لم يحدثوا بعده حدثاً، ولم يئووا محدثاً؛ فإن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم أوصى بهم الخير
Ali(as) said:“I order to you regarding the Companions (ra) of Muhammad (SAW), don’t criticize them, They were the people after the Prophet (SAW), who did not bring any innovation in the deen and never supported any innovation and the Prophet (SAW) ordered to behave well towards them” Bihar al-Anwar 22/305

Honestly I have no intention to go on a long debate with you on this issue, I just felt like pointing out few things I observed…

1. So you say taraweeh is different from tahajud, the hadith of Umar(ra) says Sahabas were praying in the mosque individually, and in small groups, what were these sahabas praying?! Was it Taraweeh or tahajud before Umar united them behind one qari (reciter)? Are both not offered after salatul isha?! These hadiths are under the ramadhan/fasting /taraweeh heading, do you think the compilers of these hadiths do not know what they were talking about?!

2. For someone who agrees that we can do more than what was prescribed by the Prophet (SAW), is the Tahajud of the Prophet (SAW) not a nawafil, is there any narration that the Prophet (SAW) fixed number for it? Did Umar(ra) made it mandatory to pray 20?

3. On tayammum, may Allah grant you the understanding of that which you write ameen. Are you not also the front runner of the fact that not everything is documented?! Do you know the conditions that warranted Umar (ra) to give the ruling to the questioner? Is this how you come to conclusion about these sahabas?! Please read the below hadith from Sahih Bukhari about the same issue…

Narrated Shaqiq bin Salama:
I was with 'Abdullah and Abu Musa; the latter asked the former, "O Abu Abdur-Rahman! What is your opinion if somebody becomes Junub and no water is available?" 'Abdullah replied, "Do not pray till water is found." Abu Musa said, "What do you say about the statement of 'Ammar (who was ordered by the Prophet to perform Tayammum). The Prophet said to him: "Perform Tayammum and that would be sufficient." 'Abdullah replied, "Don't you see that 'Umar was not satisfied by 'Ammar's statement?" Abu- Musa said, "All right, leave 'Ammar's statement, but what will you say about this verse (of Tayammum)?" 'Abdullah kept quiet and then said, "If we allowed it, then they would probably perform Tayammum even if water was available, if one of them found it (water) cold." The narrator added, "I said to Shaqiq, "Then did 'Abdullah dislike to perform Tayammum because of this?" He replied, "Yes." (Sahih Bukhari volume 1 hadith no. 342)

4. I now ask you Albaqir, did Umar (ra) die a kafir? Why would you want to attribute misguidance to him without any benefit of a doubt?! Do you ever find excuse for your brother (as instructed by the Prophet (SAW)) who had preceded you in faith?! We know the Sahabas were human, thus were fallible, how did Allah (SWT) say we should address such in the Qur’an?

Allah says in the Quran: Those who have come after them say, Our Lord, forgive us and our brethren who preceded us in faith. And do not put in our hearts rancour towards the Believers. Our Lord, You are Most Kind, Most Merciful.” Quran (59:10).

Where do you leave the narrations of the Prophet (SAW) about his companions O AlBaqir?!

The Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said: “Allah, Allah! Fear Him with regard to my Sahabah! Do not make them targets after me! Whoever loves them loves them with his love for me; and whoever hates them hates them with his hatred for me. Whoever bears enmity for them, bears enmity for me; and whoever bears enmity for me, bears enmity for Allah. Whoever bears enmity for Allah is about to perish!” (Narrated from Abdallah ibn Mughaffal by Al-Tirmidhi, by Ahmad with three good chains in his Musnad, al-Bukhari in his Tarikh, al-Bayhaqi in Shu`ab al-Iman, and others. Al-Suyuti declared it hasan in his Jami` al-Saghir #1442).

ن الرضا ، عن آبائه عليهم السلام قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله : من سب نبيا قتل ، ومن سب أصحابي جلد
Imam Reza has narrated through his forefathers that the Prophet (saw) said : One who kills a prophet should be killed, and one who talks ill about his companions should be flogged. [Bihar al anwar, Vol. 76, p. 222]

Shaikh ul Islaam Ibn Hajr al-‘Asqalaani Rahimahullah in the preface of al Isaabah quotes Imam Abu Zura’h ar-Razi Rahimahullah (d.264 H) he said:

When you see a man who criticizes any one of the companions of Rasoolullah (Sallalaahu Alyhi wa Sallam) then know that he is a zindeeq (Disbeliever who claims to be Muslim). The reason is that the Rasoolullah (Sallalaahu Alyhi wa Sallam) is Truthful and the Quraan is Truthful and what Rasoolullah (Sallalaahu Alyhi wa Sallam) was sent with is the Truth, and these things have been brought to us by the Sahaabah (Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anhum). The Sahaabah (Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anhum) are our witnesses to this therefore whosoever discredits or ridicules any one of them intends to discredit the Quraan and the Sunnah. Therefore these people are themselves worthy of criticism and they are Zanaadeeq.

Albaqir you only quote one hadith which is this…
Anas b. Malik reports:
"The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Some persons from amongst those who kept me company will meet me at the Lake-fount. I will see them, and they will be presented to me. Then, they will be forced away from me. I will say: 'O my Lord, my Sahabah! My Sahabah.' It will be said to me: 'You do not know what they INNOVATED after
you.'"
~Sahih Muslim, vol. 4, p. 1800, #2304 (40)

I think this is an issue way beyond you; it is a matter of hereafter, the ghayb which only Allah (SWT) knows. Do you think these sahabas didn’t learn about this narration? Or do you have the lists of these sahabas that innovated, and you are sure of their innovations in the deen? Can you vouch for yourself that you are rightly guided before contesting the guidance of Umar (ra) who saw the blessed face of our beloved Prophet (SAW), ate and drank with him, fought battles with him and learnt directly from him?!

Assalam alaykum.

And Allah (SWT) Knows Best.

tbaba1234:
Assalamu aleikum,

Lanrexlan, a little advice and it is for me too, when talking about islam, don't make it personal or get angry to the extent that you want to say things that will make people dislike you. Once you start getting angry, something is wrong.

Yes, the Quran is an ocean and we can never know all about it in our lifetime but it has provided knowledge that we should apply the knowledge available and not ignore.

Empiree, we share the kalima so you are like my blood brother. I know sufi and all other muslim scholars emphasise that we follow Quran an Sunnah. I do not know how that makes people salafi.

As for your assumptions.

For the record, I am not salafi. I do not ascribe any tag to my self. I rarely listen to scholars that tag themselves salafi or any sect. I am influenced by all 4 madhabs.

I did not think or say, you are commiting shirk or following jinn.

I have not questioned your aqeedah or attacked you in any way like you did to me.

All I have asked is bring forth evidence, if you are truthful.

The Quran/sunnah are not just 'paper' evidence as you and lanrexlan have asserted. It is the guideline for our lives so we refer back to it on issues.

I do not go about refuting people, I do not even like debating with muslims unless I find something problematic.

It should not be about arguing but learning. I am open to learning.

Personal attacks take away from that.

Ma Sha Allah, let me just add these two quotes from these great Scholars...

Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali narrated:
It was related that a man said to Haatim al Asam: “You are a non-Arab who cannot speak fluently, but no one has debated you except that you silenced him, so how do you defeat your opponents?” He said: “With three: I am pleased when my opponent is correct, I am sad when he is incorrect, and I preserve my tongue from saying anything that offends him.” Imaam Ahmad stated: “What a wise man he is.”
[“Al-Farq bayn al-Nasiha wa’l-Ta’yir”].

Imam Shafi’I was reported to have said:
Never do I debate a man with a desire to hear him err in his speech, or to expose the flaws in his argument, and thus vanquish him. Whenever I face an opponent in debate I silently supplicate, ‘O Lord, help him so that truth may manifest itself in his heart and on his tongue. If it be that the truth is on my side, may he follow me; and if the truth be on his side, may I follow him.

May Allah guide us all ameen,

tbaba1234:
Assalamu aleikum Sino,

On point!!

Wa Alaykum Salam Bro.

I would quickly like to add this on the issue of Ruh...

Islam as a religion is not based on personal reasoning or innovative ideas; it is based on what was revealed to the best of mankind, practiced by the best generation of Muslims…

The Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said: “Verily the best among you (to follow) is my generation (the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and his Companions (RA)), then those who follow, and then those who follow them…” (Saheeh Muslim, Book: the Virtues of the Sahaabah, chapter 52 hadeeth #2535)

Allah (SWT) states: “And whoso opposeth the messenger after the guidance (of Allah) hath been manifested unto him, and followeth other than the believer's way, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned, and expose him unto hell a hapless journey's end!” (Qur’an 4:115)

So when we ask for you to bring evidences from the best of mankind, and the best of generations, we are not being rigid, we are being careful to follow the Prophet’s (SAW) instructions cos there is no other Guidance except that of Muhammad (SAW). You can twist and turn words, you can even come up with your own tafsir and the likes, but if no evidence still, you are on your own SIMPLE!

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُمْ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا (
85)
“They will ask you about the Ruh, say the Ruh is from the command of my Lord, and what you have been given (the questioners and mankind in general) in knowledge is but little” (Qur’an 17:85)

The reason for the revelation of this verse is said to be as a result of some Jews asking the Prophet(SAW) about the Ruh, and thus the Ayah was revealed…

According to tafsir Tabari, there is a difference of opinion in the interpretation of Ruh in the above verse, the first interpretation is Jubril alayhi Salam and a narration to support this is as follows:

محمد بن عبد الأعلى، قال: ثنا محمد بن ثور، عن معمر، عن قتادة( وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ ) قال: هو جبرائيل،

Reported from Qatadah, “and they ask about the Ruh” he said it is Jubril.

Others are of the opinion that it is an Angel amongst the Angels amongst them was Ibn Abbas and Ali (RA) according to the narrations presented in the tafsir. The narration that is quite interesting, although not sure of its authenticity, is the following…

حدثني عليّ، قال: ثنا عبد الله بن صالح، قال: ثني أبو مروان يزيد بن سمرة صاحب قيسارية، عمن حدثه عن عليّ بن أبي طالب، أنه قال في قوله( وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوح ) قال: هو ملك من الملائكة له سبعون ألف وجه، لكل وجه منها سبعون ألف لسان، لكل لسان منها سبعون ألف لغة يسبح الله عزّ وجلّ بتلك اللغات كلها، يخلق الله من كلّ تسبيحة مَلكا يطير مع الملائكة إلى يوم القيامة.

“It was reported from Ali ibn Abi Talib (RA) that he said, in regards to Allah’s Statement “And they ask you about the Ruh”: He said: it is an Angel from amongst the Angels with 70,000 faces, and for each face, there are 70,000 tongues, and for each tongue, there are 70,000 languages in which it uses to praise Allah ‘aza wa jalla, and Allah creates from each praise an Angel that flies with the Angels till the day of Judgment.” (Tafsir Tabari)

I remembered I have heard this narration before from one of the lectures I attended when I was younger, and seriously, I also remembered having to joke about “rawaniya” with my colleagues back in the days, we say something like, “ma ran awon rawaniyah mi si e” meaning I’ll send my rawaniyah to you (in most cases, as a threat) or when we want to claim some form of high level of spirituality or knowledge, even back then, Jinns were what we knew to be “rawaniyah”.

Talking of experiences, “oro po ninu iwe kobo” I decided not even finish the narration from my Ustadh, and although, I haven’t seen much myself, but my dad has and Alhamdulilah, He had made me realize that sticking to the Sunnah, is the best way to guidance and spirituality, and seriously speaking, I do not care much for such stories…As a Muslim, the Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW) is enough as a miracle, I don’t need some extraordinary miracle to make me believe that I am on the right path or my level of spirituality, because there are lots of tricksters around preying on the gullibility of man and his yearnings for extraordinary events to happen…Even in Christendom, there are people who claim spirituality and based it on personal experiences, saying they saw Jesus Christ or the Holy spirit telling them this and that or even performing miracles through them, is that what we want to turn Islam to?

Description Of Love

A true lover is proved such by his pain of heart;

No sickness is there like sickness of heart.

The lover's ailment is different from all ailments;

Love is the astrolabe of God's mysteries.

A lover may hanker after this love or that love,

But at the last he is drawn to the KING of love.

However much we describe and explain love,

When we fall in love we are ashamed of our words.

Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear,

But love unexplained is clearer.

When pen hasted to write,

On reaching the subject of love it split in twain.

When the discourse touched on the matter of love,

Pen was broken and paper torn.

In explaining it Reason sticks fast, as an ass in mire;

Naught but Love itself can explain love and lovers!

None but the sun can display the sun,

If you would see it displayed, turn not away from it.

Shadows, indeed, may indicate the sun's presence,

But only the sun displays the light of life.

Shadows induce slumber, like evening talks,

But when the sun arises the 'moon is split asunder.'

In the world there is naught so wondrous as the sun,

But the Sun of the soul sets not and has no yesterday.

Though the material sun is unique and single,

We can conceive similar suns like to it.

But the Sun of the soul, beyond this firmament,

No like thereof is seen in concrete or abstract.

Where is there room in conception for His essence,

So that similitudes of HIM should be conceivable?

Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi

Did I Not Say To You

Did I not say to you, “Go not there, for I am your friend; in this
mirage of annihilation I am the fountain of life? ”

Even though in anger you depart a hundred thousand years
from me, in the end you will come to me, for I am your goal.

Did I not say to you, “Be not content with worldly forms, for I
am the fashioner of the tabernacle of your contentment? ”

Did I not say to you, “I am the sea and you are a single fish;
go not to dry land, for I am your crystal sea? ”

Did I not say to you, “ Go not like birds to the snare; come, for
I am the power of flight and your wings and feet? ”

Did I not say to you, “ They will waylay you and make you
cold, for I am the fire and warmth and heat of your desire? ”

Did I not say to you, “ They will implant in you ugly qualities
so that you will forget that I am the source of purity to you? ”

Did I not say to you, “Do not say from what direction the ser-
vant’s affairs come into order? ” I am the Creator without
directions.

If you are the lamp of the heart, know where the road is to the
house; and if you are godlike of attribute, know that I am your
Master.

...Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi

AlBaqir:
Amin atawa naa o bi jahi Muhammad, an-Nabiyy Rahma.

Kindly link me with the thread for ease access.

Ameen, here is the link

https://www.nairaland.com/1007823/journey-through-quran-amazing-quran

AlBaqir: I will pretend you didn't ask this question akhi. If every utterance of Muhammad (peace be on him and his purified ahl al-bayt) does not increase our Iman and Taqwa, then we should reboot that heart.

Even Ordinary greetings with non-muslims is a serious case in the sight of Allah not to mention what has to do with Aqeedah:
"And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet [in return] with one better than it or [at least] return it [in a like manner].Indeed, Allah is ever, over all things, an Accountant."
~sura Nisa:86

Indeed brother you are correct, but don’t you think it is based on context in which we use their words, for example, some people would quote Qur’an and ahadiths to mock and ridicule, and some people will quote to cause fitnah, spreading hate. It all depends on why and how they are being quoted…

I did not disagree with Ali (RA) being the first Muslim; I only tried to explain what is meant by AbuBakr (RA) being the first Muslim also. Personally, I see no reason we should be arguing about it, for it would not increase anyone of us in our responsibilities to Allah (SWT).

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

AlBaqir: Did the sahaba experimented and exhaust all the happenings of life till Qiyamat? Never! So how do we tackle new issues and challenges of life today?

A case was brought to the 2nd Khalifa, Umar ibn al-Khattab, during his reign. A woman gave birth at 6months. Technically such a case never happened throughout the 23years of the Prophetic mission. So no practical experience for the Khalifa to make his rulings. Alas! The Khalifa, after consulting his legislative members, pronounced a death penalty for the woman saying its obvious she committed adultery that she must have been carrying the pregnancy before her husband slept with her.

The woman was about to be stoned, comes my Mawla and the Mawla of all believers 'Ali ibn Abi Talib, al-Mur'tadha, alahi salam. He asked the woman to be freed with explicit and unmatched exegesis of the holy Qur'an given below:

* One verse in the holy Quran says bosom-feeding should be for 2years (24months)

* The other verse says both "pregnancy and bosom-feeding" is within 30months

'Ali (as) said the woman carried her pregnancy for 6months and will bosom-feed for 24months, all = 30months which Quran says.
***************

Today, what does Ulamas says about cloning, artificial insemination, surrogate mother, biotechnology, etc etc etc. Will all these just be declared "Haram" because its not practically mentioned in the Book of God and Sunnah of His prophet?

Ma sha Allah, I do not have problem with things that are not part of fundamentals of the religion, and more reason of stating that I was particular about worship. Let me quote my sufi guy again (at this rate, I may become a sufi o )

"The actions that Resulullah did or abstained from are of two types:

The first type of actions is the ones which he did or abstained from as worships. Every Moslem has to adapt himself to these actions. Actions which do not conform with them are bid’ats. The second ones are the actions done as customs by the people of the city and the country where he had been to. He who dislikes them and says that they are unpleasant becomes a disbeliever. But it is not obligatory to do them. An action not conforming with them is not a bid’at. Doing or not doing them depends on the customs of one’s country and nation. They are in mubah section. They do not have anything to do with the religion. Each country has different customs. Even, the customs of a country may change in the course of time. [Ibni Abidin, while telling about the sunnets of ablution, explains the things which Resulullah did and used as customs and calls them Sunnet-i-zevaid and says that it is not a sin no to do them. Nevertheless, following Resulullah also in things pertaining to customs supplies one with many advantages and causes much happiness in this and the next worlds.]

Ibni Abidin, in telling about the kiraet (Reciting the Kur’an while standing in nemaz) in nemaz (prayer), says: “The things which disbelivers do and use are of two types:

“The first ones are the things which they do as customs, that is, the things which each nation, each country do as their customs. Out of these, doing or using the things that are not haram and that are useful to people is never a sin. Using trousers, fez, different types of shoes, spoons and forks, eating meals at a table, putting each person’s meal in a dish in front of him, and cutting the bread in slices with a knife and using various tools and gadgets are all actions concerning customs and are mubah (permisible). It is not a bid’at or a sin to use them. Resulullah wore the shoes special for priests.”….

(Huseyn Hilmi Isik, Endless Bliss)

From this, I can state where bid’ah, haram are applicable and where they are not, I do not mix the usul and the fur’u together, so all these issues you raised would be looked at thoroughly using ijtihad to arrive at a conclusion Islamically.

AlBaqir: In the word of my Mawla and the Mawla of all believers, 'Ali al-Murtadha (as), he says:

"From the time of his (the Prophet's) weaning, Allah had put a mighty angel with him to take him along the path of high character and good behavior through day and night, while I used to follow him like a young camel following in the footprints of its mother..."
~Nahj al-Balagha, vol.2 p. 82

What we claim based on the Quran, ahadith and historical facts is that 'Ali was the BEST follower of Muhammad. That is what make his master (saws) declared him as mawla of all believer.

Allahuma Salli ‘ala Muhammad wa ‘ala Ahlihi wa Ashabihi ajma’in

AlBaqir: A prescribed medicine to specific ailment is under Wajibat (obligatory acts). While extras like eating variety of fruits, nutritious food, blood tonics, multivitamins falls under "non-obligatory" ibaadat. What you take is what will work in your system. And if you don't, just make sure your wajibat is intact.

I get you brother, but that is not the point I was trying to make. It is about following the prescription, following the instruction of the doctor…another analogy is this, as a student who wants to write and exam let’s say mathematics, the examiner writes, solve the following quadratic equations using the almighty formula, instead of the student to use the almighty formula, he decided to use substitution method, he may get the answers correctly, but he failed to follow simple instruction and thus he would be penalized.
That is the way I see this issue.

AlBaqir: @bold, here's my mawla and the mawla of every believers:
"Intelligence is not worthy of reliance when it is against obedience to God and makes you exit from the highway of Gods blessed guides Beware of companionship with the ignorant, he might wishes to benefit you but in reality he harms you." ~Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as).

Whatever is prescribed in the Qur'an and Sunnah must be follow to the letter not only theoretically but deeply to the fact that Allah will open other doors of idayah in your heart. What we say is that they also pave way for 'new' practices based on our understanding. Best scenerio was a sahaba who used al-Fatiha for Ruqya without the initial approval or taught of the Prophet. The sahaba possibly used his 'initiative' that Allah says Qur'an is Shi'fa (cure) and he adopted the "mother of the sura, al-Fatiha". What he did was perfectly within the scope of Qur'an and Sunnah; hence, the Prophet of Rahma endorsed it.

If such happened today without a reference in the book, the salafi-wannabe ideology will exclaim BID'AH, HARAM, KUFR
How many things have been declared bid'ah, haram based on this!

I love this quote of Ali (RA), and this is what I have been trying to say. I had come with examples of where the Prophet (SAW) gave specific recommendations/instructions, and I stated that we must follow such recommendations/instructions; no amount of experimentation can top the guidance of Rasulullah (SAW). And if we disobey the prophet (SAW), we are indeed disobeying Allah (SWT)

I agree with the bold, but the “paving way for the new practices” is what I disagree with, especially in ibaadah.
The Sahabah on doing what he did, informed the Prophet (SAW), when you AlBaqir come up with new things, especially in the act of ibaadah, who do you meet for ratification and endorsement?

Quickly, lets look at the istikhara example again, I said the Prophet (SAW) thought his sahabas what to do for istikhara, and you said you could use surah Fatha for it, so my question is, who are you following in using surah fatha for istikhara? Who said you can use it? Why would you use alfatha when the Prophet (SAW) thought us what to do?

I hope you understand my stand?

AlBaqir: We never insinuate the underlined. And we agree in totality. The only problem is you sound with the description in the bracket @underline if we remove the word "takfiri" (you are definitely not that).

@bold, ma sha Allah kanan, I love that statement of yours. And I tell you that is practical experience we talk about. Have already talk about different grades ^

I am long done with appellations; I am a Muslim, one who tries to follow the Sunnah (so you can call me Ahlu Sunnah). I have left that life of what is in the bracket, I do not condemn groups/people blanketly (unless they openly exhibit kufr and bid’ah), and I take what is good, and do away with what is bad from them. I have quoted from the asharis, the salafis, the madkhalis, the maturidis, the deobandis, the sufis and what have you…

AlBaqir: @underlined, so we are safe doing adhkars in thousands, millions depending on our capability. We are safe having an x fixed count based on spiritual experience!

What we are not safe at is legislating those fixed count of ours on people, formulating this and that reward. Even if our spiritual experience/manifestations revealed to us the enormous reward of our x fixed count, we can only share or recommend never legislate.

@bold, we say that "any other thing" is what is outside the scope of the shariah.

From the onset, I had not negated the bold, what I am advocating is people should not neglect and abandon the Sunnah, in chasing after some esoteric experimentation. I used an example of people not knowing the adhkar of morning and evening, but they are bent on doing Ya Lateef I million cos of one special effect in which in most cases are, wealth and power…What should be the priority AlBaqir? Following the best of Mankind or experimenting?

AlBaqir: Nobody denied the facts above. What we kick against is "fanaticism", "rigidity", and "bid'aism".

If anybody brought a system not primarily documented in the "books", we flexibly examine the A, B, C, D of that system inline with our understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

For example, if in groups (jama'a) we gather ourselves in a secluded place (e.g Mosque), at a specific time and start dhikr in a particular posture (sitting, standing); pause, then reflect deeply on what we chant in dhikr.

Is it outside the scope of the Sharia judging with the fact that prophet primarily doesn't practice it with his sahaba? We said NO! It is still within the scope of the sharia.

"Those who remember Allah (aledhina yadhkuruna' llah) standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire.
~sura al-Imran: 191

We refuse to condemn vehemently that since such a practice is not documented, then we cannot do such. That's rigidity!

Why didn’t you add “lying down on their sides” and doing dhikr in jama’ah? lol Fortunately, there are ahadiths about doing dhikr in jama’ah, and indeed, there had been a lot of argument in regards to this, especially when you take the hadith of Ibn mas’ood into cognizance…Scholars who are weary of innovation, who put all the narrations of dhikr into proper perspective, would rather have a ta’lim class, where they practically teach people the deen, they teach how to supplicate and do dhikr according to the Sunnah, how to reach a state of Islamic spirituality…I have been fortunate to be part of such gatherings, it is far from what some groups do in terms of doing dhikr nowadays.

Let me quote from my sufi book again:

“Zikr means to remember Allahu teala. And this will be done through the heart. It is not Zikr for many persons to assemble together, to shout “Hy!” or “Huy!”, to dance and whirl. Many things have been made up under the name of tarikat for a hundred years. The way of the great men of religion, of the murshids of tasawuf, has been forgotten. The ignorant and even sinners have become shaikhs and have commited sins under the name of zikr and worship… We should read the old, real books of the great men of religion, and correct our worships and thoughts in accordance with them. We should not believe the thieves of religion, who work behind the curtain of valuable names such as men of tarikat, sheikhs, murids, but we should abstain from them. ”
(Huseyn Hilmi Isik, Endless Bliss)

AlBaqir: Fair enough brother. None of us ever claim to be something extraordinary. We are all striving towards perfection.

@underline, so you can consult an experienced Raqi. I thought your claim was "just adhere to the theoretical 'sunnah' documented down"!

Consulting a Raqi, that on its own is a form of Tawassul between the sick and the Curer, Allah. Do the sick not have direct access to the Curer, Allah? The case of 'blind' Nabi Yaqub (as) whose son, Nabi Yusuf (as) sent a blessed shirt to, to rub his eyes to regain his sight! ~Sura Yusuf.

Kindly tell me a single Raqi you (or tbaba 1234) knew or heard about who has not added or introduced 'something new' into the documented Sunnatic methodology of Ruqya?

LOL, @bold, where did I make such claim? There are traditions of the Prophet (SAW) performing Ruqyah, not only that, it is common knowledge also that people sought the Prophet (SAW) for prayers, which gives us the understanding to seek righteous people to guide us, and pray for us. There are also traditions which the prophet (SAW) encourages us to consult our brothers in faith, a classical example is the case of istikhara.
I know you have some preconceived notion about people who state that people should adhere to the Sunnah and nothing more, but you should try to understand people’s point of view before thinking they are being rigid or fanatical.

I have stated earlier that in terms of ibaadaat, sticking to the Sunnah is the surest way to guidance…

AlBaqir: The noble Prophet (peace be on him and his household) first advice the blind man that his blind condition is better for him than what he sought. When he insisted for cure, Allah restored his sight through His beloved.

Imagine how this kind of news will spread then. Naturally this will ginger all other muslim blinds to approach the holy Prophet (peace be on him and his household).

We can safely conclude that he advised them on what is better and they accepted rather than turning his back on them or unable to do the same Mujizat. This is a reliable possibility.

Can you do the same (now karamat) if the blind insist? Can I do the same? If we upgrade our spiritual proximity to Allah, His merciful door is widely open for us to lay our hands on His divine permit. Thereby we do those karamat by His leave.

How do we upgrade our spiritual proximity? Definitely by Adhering to the Quran and Sunnah. But how deep your understanding is will define your level of spiritual proximity.

Then what grade is our target? The least grade of muslim? The high grade of Mu'min? The higher grade of Muhsin and saliheen? The more grade of Sadiq/sidiqa? The most grade of Awliyah? The better grade of the beloved? The highest and best grade of Muqarabun?

What makes Prophets superior to each other (apart from the quality of task given)? What makes Sahaba superior to each other apart from common practice of wajibat and recommended sunnah? It is those EXTRA practice within the guideline of "Quran and Sunnah".

Muhammad (peace be on him and his household) will pray privately at night until his blessed feet swollen up, he will fast for consecutive days without break, etc. Bilal will not perform ablution at any time until he perform nawafil to the maximum level of exhaust.

As Muslims, we should Endeavour to seek the highest level we can get, but some things are just beyond us, they are meant for special people like the Prophets (‘Alayhim salam), and this is why I had to bring an explanation on mu’jizah and karaamah…

@bold, that is exactly what I am saying, your extra practice should be according to the Qur’an and Sunnah, but I know where we disagree, I shall state that subsequently.

Interestingly, I came across the classification of grades of following the Sunnah by the Sufi’s, I find it insightful and in line with my perspective….

"There are seven grades in following Resulullah:

The first [/b]one is to believe the rules of Islam and learn and do them. The following of all Moslems, savants, zahids (Those who do not set their hearts in wordly possesions.) and abids (persons who try to perform all kinds of worships) is in this grade. Their nefs (soul) does not belief Him. Allahu teala, pitying, accepts the heart’s believing only.

[b]The second one is, together with doing the commands, to do all of Resulullah’s words and habits and to purify the heart from evil habits. Those who walk in the way of tasawuf are in this grade.

The third one is to adapt oneself to all the states, spiritual pleasures and the things that comes to the heart, which occurred to Resulullah. This grade is obained in the rank which tasawuf calls Vilayet-l-Hassa. Here, the nefs, too, believes and obeys and all worships become real and perfect.

The fourth one is to be real and defectless in all auspicious deeds as well as worships. This is peculiar to the great who are called Ulema-i-rasihin. These savants with perfect knowledge understand the deep meanings and denotations of the Kur’an and hadiths. Such were the Ashab of all the Prophets. The nefs of all of them believed and became obedient. Following of this sort falls to the lot of either those who advance in the way of tasawuf and wilayet or those who who obey all the sunnets and abstain from all the bid’ats. Today, the world has been invaded by bid’ats, the sunnets having gone. Today, it has gone beyond posibility to find out the sunnets and embrace them and to get rid of the ocean of bid’ats. The bid’ats have become customs. Whereas, customs cannot build up the religion or the sheri’at, no matter how widely they have settled and spread and how beautiful they look. [This means to say that for reaching this grade it has been obligatory today to advance in the way of tasawuf. In the early centuries (of Islam) it was easy to follow all the sunnets. There was no need for tasawuf then.]

The fifth one is to adapt oneself to the perfect, high qualities peculier to Resulullah. These qualities cannot be obtained through knowledge or worshipping. They come only through Allah’s blessing and gifting. In this grade are the great prophets and the very few great ones of the ummet of Resulullah.

The sixth one is to adapt oneself to the perfect qualities of mahbubiyyet and ma’shukiyyet (to receive the hidden blessings that are given to the darling himself (Resulullah) in Resulullah: this is peculiar to those whom Allahu teala loves very much; it cannot be obtained through blessing; muhabbed (love) is necessary.

The seventh grade is for all the motes of man’s body to adapt themselves to him. The follower is so similar to the one followed that imitation goes away from the midst. He, too, as if like Resulullah, takes everything from the same source.

In defining tasawuf,

Tasawuf: The things which Allah and His messanger commanded and prohibited are called the Sheri’at. The things which were neither commanded nor prohibited but which are said to be good and useful to do or good and useful not to do, are halal (permitted). After having adapted oneself to the Sheri’at, it is called “tasawuf” to follow all these. In short, it is the Sheri’at to follow the commands and prohibitions of Allah and His Messanger. It is tasawuf to follow each of his manners, each of his attitudes that are not peculiar to him (the prophet). There are grades in tasawuf. It is disbelief and it is not Islamic to busy with tasawuf without following the Sheri’at.

The information which Allah teala sends to prophets through angel is called the sheri’at. Each Moslem learns the Sheri’at from masters. When a Moslem’s heart has been purified from sins, information on the Sheri’at comes to his heart by itself. That Moslem has reached the hakikat. For reaching the hakikat, it is necessary to strive and make progress in the way called tasawuf. The works that are done and the things that are acquired by entering this way until reaching the hakikat are called as the tarikat."

(Huseyn Hilmi Isik, Endless Bliss)

Empiree:
mashallah, sino. You and Albaqir love epistles. You both seem so passionate about religious matters. May Allah bless you two. Amin. I definitely got your points all along, sino. There are plenty of views out there which still the same thing. Just wanted to let go.

Anyways, your Alfa, how is he doing?. Honestly, i didnt know at out-start he was your Alfa when you talked about ya lateef. I presumed he was average Joe you met on the street. Is he okay though?

When it comes to epistles, i'm still a learner

My Alfa is fine, although i like calling him ustaz. Thank you for your concern.

AlBaqir:
The evidence (Abu Bakar vs 'Ali vis-a-vis the First Muslim) SEEM even and balanced, based on the opinions of different sahaba depending on their loyalty or info heard etc.

Likewise, the view of Sunni Ulamas are the same. Some goes for 'Ali, some rooted for Abu Bakar. In fact, Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah lost control to the extent that he downplayed 'Ali's acceptance of Islam being a "child" and argued that his acceptance of Islam doesn't take him out of paganism.

So when this kind of discussion turns volatile amidst different emotional views, Qur'an says:
"... (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." ~an-Nisa:59

So leaving aside anybody's opinions, what was the holy Prophet's opinion?

1. Imam Ahmad records:

'Abd Allah (b. Ahmad) - my father (Ahmad b. Hanbal) - Abu Ahmad - Khalid b. Tahman - Nafi b. Abi Nafi - Ma'qil b. Yasar:
"I was with the Prophet, peace be upon him, one day. Then he said, "Would you like to visit Fatimah, may Allah be pleased with her?" I said, "Yes." So, he stood up, leaning on me, and said, "But, someone else apart from you will soon bear its weight and its reward will be for you." It was as though I was carrying nothing until we entered upon Fatimah, peace be upon her. He (the Prophet) said to her, "How do you feel?" She answered, "By Allah, my grief has intensified, my want has worsened and my sickness has lasted long." He said, "Are you not satisfied that I have married you to the one who was [size=25pt]the first of my Ummah to accept Islam[/size], and the most knowledgeable of them, and the most clement of them?"
~Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbali, vol. 5 p.26, #20322.

Note:
1. Imam al-Haythami (d. 807H) states about this report: "Ahmad and al-Tabarani recorded it with narrators who have (all) been graded thiqah (trustworthy).

2. Al-Haythami again comments: "Ahmad and al-Tabarani narrated it. In the chain is khalid b. Tahman. Abu Hatim and others declared him thiqah (trustworthy). The remaining narrators are (all) thiqah.

~Majma' al-Zawaid vol.9 p. 147 - 148, #14669.

3. Sheik Shu'aib al-Arnaut (the annotator of Musnad - Cairo Edition) surprisingly declared: "Its chain is da'if." Strangely, he gives NO REASON for his verdict.

4. Sheik al-Albanni comments: "Ahmad (5/26) recorded it, and from his route Ibn Asakir (12/89/1).
I (al-Albani) say: 'This chain is da'if. Its narrators are thiqah (trustworthy), except Khalid b. Tahman for the majority declared him da'if. Ibn Ma'in said, "He is da'if. He became confused ten years before his death. But, before that he was thiqah (trustworthy)."
~Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da'ifah wa al-Mawdu'ah wa Atharihah al-Sayyiah fi al-Ummah, vol. 10, p. 535, #4898.

***[b]I intend not to make this comment cumbersome because I would have analyze to the whole world how sheik al-Albani shot himself in the leg. The sheik claimed the "majority" declared Khalid as da'if but he can ONLY cited Ibn Ma'in. The sheik also claimed with no prove that Khalid became confused [b]in the last 10years of his life. Earlier Muhadith viewed it otherwise. And the same sheik al-Albani has treated many cases of "confusion" worst than that of khalid thereby, declaring such hadith Sahih. The biggest point according to the Sheik is "does the hadith in question narrated before or after such narrator became confused", and "what's the significant of his confusion".
@sino, I will refer you to one of research book of Toyib Olawuyi "Ali- the best of sahaba" p. 123 - 128. He excellently, expose the hasty judgment of sheik al-Albani in grading the chain da'if.[/b]


2. A corroborating hadith is recorded by 'Allamah al-Hindi (d. 975H):

Narrated 'Ali:
"Abu Bakar and 'Umar sought the hand of Fatimah in marriage from the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. But, the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, refused their proposals. So, 'Umar said, "You are for her, O 'Ali." He (Ali) said, "What do I have apart from my armour, my camel and my sword?" So, Ali approached the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, one day and he (the Prophet) said, "O 'Ali! Do you have anything?" He replied, "My camel and my armour."

I mortgaged both of them. So, the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, married Fatimah to me. When the news got to Fatimah, she wept. As a result, the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, went to her and said, "Why are you weeping, O Fatimah? I swear by Allah, I have married you to the most knowledgeable of them, and the most clement of them, and [size=25pt]the first of them to accept Islam[/size] ."

Al-Hindi comments:
"Ibn Jarir (al-Tabari) recorded it and DECLARED IT SAHIH. Al-Dawlabi also recorded it in al-Dhurriyah al-Tahirah. "

~Kanz al-Ummal fi Sunan al-Aqwil wa Af'al, vol. 13, p. 98, #36370.

3. Imam al-Tabarani also recorded another version with different chain of same wording of the prophet (peace be on him and his household).

~Mu'jam al-Kabir {annotator: Hamadi b. 'Abd al-Majid al-Salafi}, vol. 1, p. 94 #156.

Al-Haythami comments:
"...it is mursal WITH A SAHIH CHAIN."

4. Imam Ibn Asakir (d. 571 H) records:
'Aishah narrates:
"Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, told me that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said to her, "Your husband is the most knowledgeable of the believers, and the first of them to accept Islam, and the most clement of them."

Imam Ibn Asakir also recorded further through different chains linking 'Ali, Fatimah, Asma b. 'Umays, 'Aishah (again).

~Ibn Asakir al-Shafi'i, Tarikh Madinah Dimashq, vol. 80, p.113; vol. 42, p. 132

5. Imam Ahmad b. Hanbali records:

'Ma'qil b. Yasar narrates:
"...He (the prophet) said (to Fatimah), "Are you not satisfied that I have married you to the first of my Ummah to accept Islam, and the most knowledgeable of them, and , and the most clement of them?"
~Abu 'Abd Allah Ahmad b. Hanbali al-Shaybani, Musnad (Cairo: Muasassat Qurtubah) {annotator: Shu'ayb al-Arnaut}, vol. 5 p. 26, #20322.

There are many corroborating ahadith, these are the least to save space

Seriously, please tell me, how does this information increase us in Spiriyuality, Iman and Taqwa?

I had presented narrations, even balanced, and trying to explain what is meant by Abu Bakr (RA) being the first to accept Islam, but you just can't let it go, you went ahead to prove Ali (RA) is the first Muslim which i am not disputing with you...

Ibn Kathir said: It is clear that the people of his house, believed before anyone, his wife Khadija, his freed slave Zaid, Zaid’s wife Umm Ayman, “Ali and Waraqah.”

Tell me AlBaqir, Who accepted Islam after the above list?

To your questions Empiree and AlBaqir, I am no khidr, nor did Allah (SWT) give me knowledge of the unseen, and I no get super powers . I do not know anything other than the fact that a person afflicted with Jinn should consult a righteous scholar who would perform Ruqyah according to the Sunnah, and I’ll also advice the person to adopt the sunnah as much as possible in his/her way of life.

@AlBaqir, I believe there is m’ujizah, and there is karaamah, the former is for Prophets, while the latter is for righteous servants of Allah. The case of the blind would be looked at within the purview of m’ujizah, and indeed, there were other blind men at the time of the Prophet (SAW), is there any report of him restoring their sight? e.g Abdullah bin Umm-Maktum.

The mu‘jizah (miracle) is the extraordinary sign with which Allah supports His Prophets and Messengers, and challenges people. The karaamah is something extraordinary that Allah causes to happen at the hand of one of His close friends. There are many differences between the mu‘jizah and the karaamah, including the following:
1. The mu‘jizah is meant to be done openly and be seen and known by many people, and the one for whom it is done (the Prophet) is enjoined to show it openly, whereas the karaamah is based on concealment and the one for whom it is done (the wali or close friend of Allah) is enjoined to conceal it.
2. The mu‘jizah may be accompanied by a challenge and claim of Prophethood, whereas the karaamah is not accompanied by any challenge or any claim of virtue or high status before Allah.
3. The fruits of the mu‘jizah bring benefits to others, whereas the karaamah usually only benefits the one to whom it is given.
4. The mu‘jizah may be any extraordinary event; the karaamah can only be of a few types.
5. The mu‘jizah is only for the Prophets, whereas the karaamah is for the close friends of Allah.
6. The Prophets use their miracles (mu‘jizah) to establish proof against the mushrikeen, because their hearts are hard; the close friends of Allah (awliya’) use the karaamah to establish proof for themselves so that they will have peace of mind and certainty of faith, and will not be worried or anxious.
Quoted from a Master’s thesis entitled al-Wilaayah wa’l-Karaamah fi’l-‘Aqeedah al-Islamiyyah by Muhammad Khayr al-‘Umari.
You can read more here: http://islamqa.info/en/124838

I agree that we lack spirituality, and to think Salafis don’t know about spirituality, that they are only people of theories, is just naïve. Real salafis (not the trigger happy- takfiri merchant-salafi wannabe) are spiritual. Islamic spirituality is the deepest you can ever find, and it is pure beauty when you experience it, even if it is just for a day!

I have stated that, there are narrations of the prophet given us a fixed number of adhkar to do, and others there isn’t. I’ll rather do what the Prophet (SAW) specifically instructed, at the time prescribed, than do any other thing. Why? I know I have the opportunity to do more at other specific times given for ibaadaat without specificities in terms of count, form or duration, not only that, I am following the best of Mankind as instructed by Allah (SWT) in the Qur’an…

I give you an example, After Subhi, the Prophet (SAW) has a specific set of adhkar, with quantity, I do that, then after which I can do as much dhikr or qira’atul Qur’an as I want and can till the sun comes up for I have read that this period is of enormous blessing in the Sunnah. I do not increase nor innovate on what the Prophet (SAW) instructed, I am still on the Sunnah. I do not place my personal reasoning into it, nor do I try to experiment, I follow the Sunnah!

Let me give another example of what I have been trying to say all this while, take the example of salawaat on the Prophet (SAW), I’ll use the example of the brother with at least 5000 salawaat, we agree ikhlas (Sincerity) is important, so we look at the other aspect following the Sunnah on the following six guidelines given by Sheikh Uthaymeen (Rahimahullah)

The First:as-Sabab (reason, motive): We agree the motive is to send salawaat on the Prophet (SAW) as instructed by Allah (SWT), the Prophet (SAW) also instructed us to send blessings on him, we are good.

The Second: al-Jins (type): So what is the type recommended? Salatul Ibrahimiyah, the full or the short form, this is what is recommended.

The Third: al-Qadr (quantity): There is no quantity, I can do as much as I can, when there is no quantity dictated by the Shari’ah, do as much as you can, you can use all your time or less, for dua’a to send salawaat on the Prophet (SAW), it is recorded in the Sunnah.

The Fourth: al-Kayfiyyah (manner, mode): I follow the text in the way it was presented, I do not distort it, nor do I read it like I’m in a rap battle competing with Eminem, I recite it with the proper pronunciations and concentration.

The Fifth: az-Zamaan (time): During the early hours, after tahajjud, or after the recommended adhkar after the obligatory salah, or during the time I can perform an act of non-obligatory ibaadah.

The Sixth: al-Makaan (place): All the halal places where ibaadah can be performed.

I strongly believe that if we channel our acts according to the Sunnah, we will indeed gain spirituality; following the Sunnah is not an option in acts of worship, it is mandatory, if we truly say we believe, love the Prophet (SAW) and hope for salvation through Muhammad (SAW).
Allah (SWT) says:
"Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Qur’an 3:31)

Let me make a quick analogy, a patient goes to the doctor who prescribed drugs to be used 3 times daily, the patient in his own wisdom, thinks due to the pains he is feeling, and wants a quick relief, he decided to use the drugs all at the same time, dismissing the instructions of the doctor, if care is not taken, this patient may lose his life!

On a final note, from your responses so far, AlBaqir, is it wrong for me to infer that you believe we can jettison the Sunnah at will, by following our own initiative, experimenting (in a deen that is complete) to also arrive at the same result with that of the Sunnah, even when we know what is recommended/instructed, we can still go ahead and experiment with our own reasoning, and in doing that, we are still following the Sunnah?

This is not the time for experimenting, this is the time for following, the Sahabas had experimented under the watchful eyes of the Prophet (SAW), during the period of divine revelation, you can never have that back!

I seek refuge in Allah from innovation in the deen and what would lead me to it. Ameen


NB: @ AlBaqir,

1. You have raised issues in your responses which cannot be discussed on this thread further, I hope in sha Allah, Allah will grant me the opportunity to discuss them with you later, as some of it is the basis of the difference in aqeedah between the Sunni and the Shia

2. In regards to the Qur’anic verses quoted, it is unfortunate you cannot see the correlation, calling on Allah (SWT), worshipping Allah (SWT), following the Prophet (SAW). The prophet (SAW) came to teach us how to call on Allah, how to worship Allah (SWT), without the Prophet (SAW) you can never know Ibaadah (Worship). Hope you will understand.

3. Tbaba1234 is not a mufasir, may Allah increase him in knowledge, but he made a beautiful thread on tafsir surah Fatha according to what he was thought by his teacher which I believe must have studied different tafsirs. I made reference to it thinking you would have come across the thread.

4. Unless you want to state otherwise, Ali (RA) followed the Sunnah of Muhammad (SAW), he was a follower of the best of mankind.

Assalam Alaykum.

AlBaqir: Don't get confused dear brother. Sahabas doing acts of non-obligatory ibaadat outside the prophet's recommendations, and his (saws) approval showed nothing but the exercise of "independent reasoning" as explained by Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani and other Shuyukh.

If I may ask, has the holy prophet ever say "Radi'Allahu anhum" after the name of any of his sahaba? He never said so! He never commanded or recommended that act even though Allah revealed the word in His Book! The sahaba too never practiced it either yet they read the Quran.

Only our "independent reasoning" judge its a good act.

Saying radillahu anhum can be traced directly to the Qur'an, Allah has used it on them, so thus we can, we are not introducing anything new to worship or Islam, so please you cannot use that. It is not an “independent reasoning” it is what the Qur'an categorically states. I believe there is lots of ikhtiram among the Sahabas themselves during their lifetime, and they prayed for themselves often, at least, praying for your Muslim brother is an act of sunnah, they learnt it from the Prophet (SAW), thus they would have practiced it often.

AlBaqir: Have we ever brought anything so far in this discussion, alien to the Shari'ah? Please point it out brother if there's any. What we are arguing about is "independent reasoning" in the non-obligatory ibaadat. Whoever make his own independent judgement or practice obligatory to people should be the one you have loggerhead with.

What is outside the scope of the Sharia are stuffs like doing dhikr or performing nawafil na.kedly, reciting Ya jabajaba ja'ilu, Ya Jinn (as Empiree pointed out), or as 'sheik' Onikijipa told some of his followers who would like to be enrich that they should perform Subh, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Ishai at the time of Subh, then repeat all again at every salat for xdays etc, and other stuffs like that.

What brought about this long discuss, is the issue of reciting adhkar and Surah of the Qur'an for a fixed count, which promises such and such rewards not documented in the shari'ah. The issue of a creature not classified in the Shari'ah. And my point has been to uphold the Shari'ah, following the Sunnah, for surely, that is where guidance is.

AlBaqir: @underline, absolutely, in the wajibat. As per non-wajibat, we are at liberty to do as we are capable of.
All these have been explain already.



Thank God for the bolded part.

Oh dear brother, what i'm trying to say is this for example; the Prophet (SAW) thought the Sahaba isthikhara, it is not wajib, it is a form of worship, so if someone now comes and said, if you want to make a decision, recite khaf, Ya sin, and isawaka, recite them on a daily basis for 7 days, Allah (SWT) will guide you and give you this and that, indeed, reciting the Qur'an has its benefits, guidance is part of it, and it is a form of dua'a. But the Prophet (SAW) has thought us what to do, the person has no solid foundation on what he is doing or calling people to do, the Prophet (SAW) nor his companions said those specific surahs should be recited when one wants to make a decision or when one seeks guidance...that which the Prophet (SAW) thought, is far more superior to that which anyone can come up with. He is our teacher, our leader, we must follow him. I hope you can see what I am trying to say?

AlBaqir: There are whole lots of things happening today never happened at the time of the prophet and no direct teachings on them. The Ulama however derived (formulate) rulings for it in line with their respective understanding of the Shariah. Bottom line, what prophet taught us (in this regard) are guidelines and prerequisites in our own personal exercise of Ijtihad.

You should note that I have been very careful in just talking about worship which is part of the fundamentals of the religion (Usool-u-deen), one of the major task of the Prophet (SAW) is to teach us how to worship. I do not know of what new things in terms of worship that is happening these days, everything about worship has been taken care of.

Abdulaah Ibn Mas’ood said:

“Follow and do not innovate, for everything has been taken care of, and you must follow the ancient way (i.e., of the Salaf).” [Ad-Daarimi in his Sunan]

And did I read you right? Personal ijtihad? By who? Me and you? Even issues on other branches of religion (Furoo' deen) not explicitly stated in the Shar'ah are tabled to the scholars, for they are those with knowledge who are capable of Ijtihad, and it is not every scholar that can even do Ijtihad.

AlBaqir:
Absolutely, Allah's words are truth. By perfection of Islam, it means the wajibat (obligatory) acts required of every muslim to the extent that they are enough to guarantee paradise. As per non-obligatory ibaadat (where companions exercise their personal reasoning), we are at liberty to do as we wish, and the holy prophet's (peace be on him and his progeny) recommendation is there, simple and enough for every sundry. Doing outside that is not haram or bid'ah so long you are capable of it and will not affect your wajibat acts in anyway hence justifications for many sahaba who acted beyond the recommendation ibaadat taught by the prophet to every tom, dick and harry. Not doing it (non-obligatory acts) at all i.e you just focus only on the wajibat (obligatory acts) earn no punishment or retribution. Doing it earn extra reward.

Look, what you have just stated here is quite far from how the sahabas felt about the religion. The shari'ah definition of ibadaat comprises of the obligatory and the non obligatory acts, that is why the warning about bid'ah is very high, the sahabas were very careful in doing things not sanctioned by the prophet (SAW), hence they always ask, the sahabas were always thirsty for knowledge and seek to know if what they were doing is right or wrong. And that is why we could know of such activities you quoted earlier, people notice things someone is doing, they bring it to the attention of the Prophet (SAW), they don't go saying, it is non obligatory, so no qualms na, abi?

It was reported from Abu Salamah, from Abdullah bin Amr (RA) that the Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite the Qur’an in one month.” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in twenty (days).” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in fifteen.” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Recite it in ten.” He responded, “I find myself (more) energetic.” So he (the Prophet, PBUH) said, “Recite it in seven and do not do more than that.”
(Hadith No. 1388, Chapters pertaining to the Month of Ramadan, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2).

It was reported from Yazid bin Abdullah, from Abdullah bin Amr (RA), that he said, “O Allah’s Messenger (PBUH)! In how many days should I recite Qur’an?” He (the Prophet, PBUH) replied, “In one month.” I said, “I am capable of more!” – and he made it less, until he said, “Recite it in seven.” So he (Abdullah bin Amr, RA) said, “I am capable of more!” But he (the Prophet, PBUH) said, “He who recites it in less than three (days) will not understand it.”
(Hadith No. 1390, Chapters pertaining to the Month of Ramadan, Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 2).

So I ask you AlBaqir, what will you advise in regards to the above hadiths? This is not an obligatory act, it is supererogatory. This is a case of a sahabah, stating how energetic he is, that he is willing to do more, and still the Prophet (SAW) told him not to do more. Do you expect this Sahabah to go against the instruction of the Prophet?

Let me add another tradition, so people don't get it twisted in respect to the completeness of the Religion brought to us by the best of Mankind:

The Messenger (sallallaahu-alaihi-wasallam) said as is recorded by Ibn Khuzaimah in his Saheeh about the perfection and comprehensiveness of his Guidance: "By Him in Whose Hand is my soul. I have not left a single thing which brings you closer to Paradise and distances you from Hellfire except that I have commanded you with it and I have not left a single thing which brings you closer to Hellfire and distances you from Hellfire except that I have prohibited you from it "
Reported by Ibn Khuzaimah and Ahmed

‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood (r) said:
“Whoever wants to follow an example, let him follow the example of those who have passed away, the Companions of Muhammad (saw). They were the best of this ummah, the purest in heart, the deepest in knowledge, the least in sophistication. They were people whom Allah chose to be the Companions of His Prophet (S) and to convey His religion, so imitate their ways and behaviour, for they were following the Straight Path.” [Al-Baghawi in Sharh as-Sunnah]

Abdulaah Ibn Mas’ood said:
“Follow and do not innovate, for everything has been taken care of, and you must follow the ancient way (i.e., of the Salaf).” [Ad-Daarimi in his Sunan]

‘Ali Ibn Abi Taalib (ra) said:
“If religion were based on opinion (what people think is common sense), then we should wipe the bottom of the khuff (leather slippers) rather than the top, but I saw the Messenger of Allah wiping the top of them.” [Ibn Abi Shaybah in Al-Musannaf]

Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud said:
“No word is accepted without deeds and no words and deeds are accepted without a sincere intention (niyah), and no words and deeds will be accepted unless they are in accordance with the sunnah”.
[“Kitab Al-Ikhlaas Wan-Niyah”, 60].

Imam Al-Shafi’ie said:
“The scholars are agreed that if the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) becomes clear to a person, it is not permissible for him to ignore it in favour of the opinion of anyone.”
[“Madaarijj al-Salikien”, 2/335].

Imam Malik said:
“The Sunnah is like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.”
[“Majmoo al-Fatawa”, 4/57].

I believe this is why Scholars of the Ahl Sunnah, have based the acceptance of acts of worship, on ikhlas and 'itiba'ah which i had quoted Sheikh Uthaymeen earlier. Like the hadith on recitation of the Qur'an above, the act may not be bid'ah, or haram, but it can be makruh.

AlBaqir:
Hmmm...interesting story! Indeed the presence of a prophet is a blessing, a check and balances, not only for Abu Bakar but all who lived with him (peace be on him and his progeny).

But allow me to clear some myth in this story. In the effort and hard labor of sheik ibn Abayomi to intertwined the blessed prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) with Abu Bakar, he did made the following blunders far from the truth with sunni documented reference:

1. If the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) is 2years older than Abu Bakar, and they both spent "63years" together, that makes the age of the prophet 65 at the time of his death. History recorded him to be 63years when he died.

2. If they both spent "63years" together, that means they've started their friendship since age "0". There was no record of Muhammad and Abu Bakar before the former was appointed as a prophet of God. If there ever was, perhaps the later would not had ever been once a pagan.

3. The claim that Abu Bakar was the first to believe in Muhammad vis-a-vis accept Islam is another broad-daylight rape of truth. It is a common claim [size=20pt]with no validity[/size].

Abu Bakr is a respected companion of the Prophet (SAW), Allah (SWT) recognizes him in the Qur'an, there are narrations of his close relationship with the messanger (SAW), there is no need to rope anyone with anybody, if you have issues with Abu Bakr(RA) and his khilafah, why not wait till judgment day and see where we all will end up...
In your haste to bring up the myth and blunders of Sheikh Ibn Abayomi, you didn't consider if 63years was a typo by the publishers, what was intended was 23 years of nubuwah?

It is reported that Abu Bakr is the first male, NON-FAMILY member to accept Islam, so the Sheikh is still right. I already mentioned that the quote is from a lecture adapted to a book, so such statement shouldn't make you go all defensive. And in truth, there are sahih narrations in regards to Abu Bakr, being the first male to accept Islam.

“ِAm I not the most deserving of it among the people, Am I not the first to become Muslim…”
Source: Al-Tirmidhee, Sunan, vol. 6, kitaab manaaqib, ch. abu bakr’s merits, pg. 351, hadeeth # 3667 (hadeeth # 4029 in some versions)
Al-Albaani graded this hadeeth Sahih in SaHeeH wa Da`eef Sunan Al-Tirmidhee, vol. 8, pg. 167, hadeeth # 3667
Aboo Taahir Zubayr `Alee Al-Za’i said this hadeeth is Sahih in Sunan Al-Tirmidhee, vol. 6, pg. 351, hadeeth # 3667

Sayyidina Abu Sa’eed Khudri (RA) reported that Abu Bakr (RA) said, “Am I not the most deserving of all people. Am I not the first of those who embraced Islam. Am I not the companion of so-and-so? Am I not the com panion of so-and-so?”
Source: Al-Tirmidhee, Sunan, book on merits, chapter 37-No caption, 3687

Jalaludin Suyuti (Sunni Scholar) in his book Tarikh ul-Khulafa (History of the Caliphs), he died in 911 A.H.

Abu Sa’id al-Khudri said: Abu Bakr said, “Am I not the most suitable of the people for it (the khilafah)? Am I not the first to accept Islam? Am I not the one of such and such? Am I not the one of such and such?”

Al-Harith related that “Ali, said the first among the men to accept Islam was Abu Bakr”

Zaid bin Arqam said: The first to perform the prayer with the Prophet, was Abu-Bakr as-Siddiq.

Abu Arwa ad-Dawsi the Companion, said: “The first to accept Islam was Abu Bakr as-Siddiq.”

Furat ibn as-Sa’ib said: … There is a disagreement as to him and Khadijah (which of them was first to accept Islam) until (it is said that) he married her to him, and all of that before the birth of Ali.

A whole group of the Companions and the Followers said that he was the first to accept Islam, and some of them claimed that there was a consensus on that. It has been said, “The first to accept Islam was “Ali”. It has also been said, “Khadijah”. The reconciliation between these apparently conflicting statements is that Abu Bakr was the first man to accept Islam, “Ali was the first of the children to accept, and Khadijah was the first woman to accept Islam.

Salim ibn Abi’l-Ja’d said: I said to Muhamamd ibn al-Hanafiyyah, “Was Abu Bakr the first person to accept Islam? He said, “No”. I said, “So how did Abu Bakr excel and precede others so much so that no-one else is mentioned but ABu Bakr?” He said,“Because he was the best of them in Islam from the moment he accept Islam until the moment he met his Lord.”

Muhammad ibn Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas said to his father Sa’d, “Was ABu Bakr the first of you to accept Islam?” He said, “No. More than five people accepted I[b]slam before him, but he was the best of us in Islam.”[/b]

Ibn Kathir said: It is clear that the people of his house, believed before anyone, his wife Khadija, his freed slave Zaid, Zaid’s wife Umm Ayman, “Ali and Waraqah.”

Source: Jalaludin Suyuti, Tarikh ul-Khulafa (History of the Caliphs) pg. 18-19.

AlBaqir:
In Sunni dictionary, what is the definition of "Khulafai Rashidun (Rightly Guided Khalif)"? @bold.

Guided by who? By Allah! So what's the justification of the popular belief (though with no validity) that Abu Bakar was among the Khulafau Rashidun?

A Rightly Guided Khalifa MUST know and understand every single details of the holy Qur'an and Sunnah because that is the ONLY where guidance is.

Seriously, brother, you have let this Shia ideology becloud your sense of judgment, what is wrong with Abu Bakr's (RA) statement that warrant using it to weigh his being rightly guided or not? Please read the following and know that a sincere Muslim, should always be in constant hope and fear, it does not matter how much of the Qur'an or Sunnah you know, please read tafsir of Al-Fatha by Tbaba1234 on the verse “guide us to the straight path”

Allah (SWT) says:
“Call upon Him with Fear and Hope.” [Qur'an 7:56].
“Their sides forsake their beds, to invoke their Lord in Fear and Hope.” [Qur'an 32:16].
“Verily your Lord is Quick in Punishment and verily He is Oft-Forgiving, the Giver of Mercy.” [Qur'an 7:167]

Anas – radiAllaahu ‘anhu – reported that the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam entered upon a young boy who was dying. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam asked: “How are you?” The boy replied: “O Messenger of Allah, I am in-between hoping in Allah and fearing for my sins.” The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam said: “The like of these two qualities do not unite in the heart of a servant except that Allah gives him what he hopes for and protects him from what he feared.”
Hasan – Collected by at-Tirmidhee & Ibn Maajah. Authenticated by al-Albaanee in Ahkaamul-Janaa’iz (no. 2).

"The lands will shake, the caller will call out, the beasts will be resurrected, secrets will be revealed, hearts will quake, the Hell-fire whose fire will be blazing, will come into sight. O slaves of Allaah, fear Allaah! With the fear of a person who is truly afraid, who is truly cautious, who truly sees (impending doom), and who is truly deterred (from sinning)."
— Ali ibn Abi Talib (radiAllaahu ‘anhu) [Hilyatul-Awliya 1/77-78 and Sifatus-Safwah 1/171-172]

Abû Bakr Al-Siddîq – Allâh be pleased with him – said:
I will not leave anything Allâh’s Messenger – Allâh’s peace and blessings be upon him – did, except that I will also do it; for I fear that if I were to leave any of his commands and ways I would deviate.
Al-Bukhârî, Al-Sahîh 2:386 hadîth no. 3093; Ibn Battah, Al-Ibânah article 77, and others.
Notes
After recording this narration, Ibn Battah states:
This, my brothers, is the greatest Siddîq (true believer i.e. Abû Bakr), fearing that he would fall into deviation if he were to leave any of the commandments of his Prophet – Allâh’s peace and blessings be upon him. What then is to happen in a time in which people deride their Prophet and his commandments, and compete with each other and show off in contradicting him and mock his Sunnah? We ask Allâh to protect us from slipping and to save us from evil deeds.

When Abû Bakr Al-Siddîq was on his deathbed he called ‘Umar – Allah be pleased with them – and said:
Fear Allah o ‘Umar, and know that Allah has deeds to be done for Him in the day which He will not accept if done at night, and He has deeds to be done for Him at night which He will not accept if done during the day. He will not accept extra (nâfilah) deeds unless you fulfill the obligatory deeds. The scales of those whose scales will be weighty on the Day of Resurrection will only be weighty because they followed the truth in this life and it was weighty to them. And scales in which the truth will be placed tomorrow truly deserve to be heavy. And the scales of those whose scales will be light on the Day of Resurrection will only be light because they followed falsehood in this life and it was a light matter to them. And scales in which falsehood will be placed tomorrow truly deserve to be light.
Allah the Exalted has mentioned the people of Paradise and mentioned them in the context of their best deeds, and overlooked their evil deeds, so when I remember them I say to myself: I fear that I will not be included with them. And Allah the Exalted has mentioned the people of Hell and mentioned them in the context of their worst deeds and rejected their best deeds, so when I remember them I say: I hope I won’t be amongst them. Allah’s worshipers should always be in a state of hope and fear, they shouldn’t wish flimsy wishes about Allah and neither should they despair of Allah’s mercy.
If you keep to this advice of mine, no one who is not with you now should be more beloved to you than death – and it is sure to come to you. But if you disregard this advice, no one who is not with you now should be more hated to you than death – and you cannot escape it.
Abû Nu’aym, Hilyah Al-Awliyâ` Vol.1 p18; and Ibn Al-Jawzî, Sifah Al-Safwah.

@Empiree, I believe my response herein to AlBaqir would also suffice as my response to your posts.

AlBaqir:
The case of al-ibaadat is far different @bold. We are at liberty to exercise our personal reasoning to formulate dhikr so long its within the scope of the sharia. Its not necessary we limit ourselves to the two hard covers of the recorded books of ahadith.

“...This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion...” (Qur'an 5:3)


One day, after the death of Muhammad (SAW), Abubakr As-sidiq (RA), his best friend was weeping profusely. He felt life could not continue without the Prophet. He was very close to the Prophet, though he was two years younger than the Prophet.

But as it has been said, Abubakr was one of those rear gem who submitted himself completely to a fellow human being because of God. He submitted himself to Allah through Muhammad (SAW).

When the Prophet dies, Abubakr could not contain himself. He led people in prayers but he always ended up in tears, crying almost everytime. When he speaks, he cries, when he drinks he cries. They had lived together for 63 good years, and when Muhammad (SAW) came with the news of his Prophethood, Abubakr was the first man to believe him.

He wept and wept so much that other companions came around and said: “What is wrong with you, O Abubakr! Muhammad was a Prophet and it is written in the Qur'an that He would die...” Abubakr said: “Look! I am crying not because the Prophet is gone. He has gone to a better place but I am crying because when he was alive, if I make any mistake he would correct me or Allah would send a revelation to correct us. But now, how am I sure every step I take between now and the time I will die would be in accordance with the will of Allah, since there is no prophet to say it is the Will of Allah? Let me cry!”
(Shaykh (Dr) Ibn Abayomi, Lecture series 1. Islamic Spirituality, Essence, Deepness and Vastness. Advanced Academy Publishers 2005, page 59-60)

NB: This is a lecture adapted into a book, hence the way the narration is presented.

You cannot compare the Sahabas with the Prophet (SAW) in their midst, and the revelation still coming, with our time, that period was meant to teach us our deen, things happened for a reason, Allah (SWT) is the best of planners isn't He? Hence, using the narrations you posted as a yardstick for matters of Ibadaat, to bring in things alien to the Shari'ah is quite far fetched, and Alhamdulilah, you stated that the ibadaat must be within the scope of the shari'ah, and we know the sources of the shari'ah especially in terms of ibadaat, are the Qur'an and Sunnah!

So far, nobody has negated the fact that you can do as much supererogatory act as you wish according to your capacity, and we have established that your acts of Ibadaat must be Shari'ah compliant, not only that, that which is recommended by the Prophet (SAW) is far more superior to whatever anyone can come up with. Honestly, that is my aim, to let people know what is expected of them, and not to subject themselves to unnecessary endeavors...

below, I quote a sufi scholar from Turkey,

It is called Ibaadat (worshiping) to do the farz and sunnah and to abstain from the haram and makruh, that is, to carry out the rules of Islam, in order to attain Allah's consent and receive sawab (rewards). There cannot be worship without intention. It means to say that it is necessary first to have Iman and then to learn and carry out the rules of Islam in order to follow Rasulullah (Hadrat Muhammad).

To have Iman means to begin following him (Resulullah) and to go in the door of happiness. Allahu teala sent him for inviting all the people in the world to happiness and declared in the twenty-eight Ayet of Sebe' Sureh, “ O my beloved Prophet! I send you to humanity so that you give the good news of endless bliss to all the people in the world and guide them in this way of happiness.”

For example, a little midday sleeping of a person who adapts himself to him is much more valuable than spending many nights worshiping without following him. For it was his honorable habit to perform Kaylule, that is, to sleep for a while before noon. For example, not fasting on the feast day, but eating and drinking because his sheri'at commands so, is more valuable than years fasting that doesn't exist in his sheri'at. Little thing given to the poor with his sheri'at's command, which is called zekat, is better than giving gold coins of a pile as big as a mountain as alms with one's own wish. After performing a morning prayer in congregation, Hadrat Omer, the Emir-ul-mu'minin, looked at the congregation and, not seeing one of the members, he asked where he was. His companions said, “He prays until morning at nights, Maybe he fell asleep.” The Emir-ul-mu'minin said, “I wish he had slept all the night and performed the morning prayer in congregation, it would have been better.” Those who have deviated from the Sheri'at blunt their nefs (soul) by subjecting themselves to inconveniences and endevouring. Yet this is valueless and base because they don't do it compatibly with the Sheri'at. The wage for these works of theirs, if there is any, consist of a few worldly advantages. Whereas, what is the value of all that is worldly, so that a few of them may be valuable? These people are like dustmen; dustmen work harder and get more tired than anybody else, but their wages are lower than anybody else's. As for those who adapt themselves to the Sheri'at, they are like jewelers who deal with fine jewels and precious diamonds. Their work is little and their earnings are a lot. Sometimes, an hour's work provides them with hundred thousands of years earnings. Its reason is that the action compatible with the Sheri'at is accepted and liked by Allahu teala; He loves it.

[He has declared at many places of His book that this is so. For example, He declares in the thirty-first Ayet of Imran Sureh, “O my beloved Prophet! Tell them, 'if you love Allahu teala and if you want Allahu teala to love you also, adapt yourselves to me! Allahu teala loves those who adapt themselves to me.”]

Allahu teala does not like any of the things incompatible with the Sheri'at. Is it possible that rewards will be given for the things that are disliked? Maybe they will cause punishment. This subtlety exists in worldly affairs too. It will be understood when thought over for a while. Then, the capital which makes one obtain the endless bliss is to obey our Prophet's Sheri'at. All kinds of harm and instigation arise from abandoning the Sheri'at.

(Huseyn Hilmi Isik, Endless Bliss, (Translation of the First Fascicle of SEADET-I EBEDIYYE, Second edition-1974 page 19-20)

I don't know how people can be comfortable doing things that has no basis in the Shari'ah. In terms of Ibadaat, The Prophet (SAW) has thought all we need to know, he thought us how to protect ourselves from Jinn and he thought us how to do Ruqyah. Muslims have neglected the Sunnah, hence they are chasing miracle like the people of the book, looking for what is not lost....Ask an average Muslim what is the recommended adhkar after teslim from the five daily salawat, he doesn't know, but he collects different nankali for this protection and for that reward which has no basis in the Shari'ah, this is the issue we are facing in the Ummah, ignorance, and the absence of the right aqeedah. The earlier we return to the Sunnah, the better.

May Allah Guide us aright Ameen.

abdoolhapheez:
Jazakumullahu khairan everyone.keep the contributions coming.may give us the ability to act on what we learn from these poems.

I photocopy this post!

dragnet:
I pray Allaah guides and preserves you upon haqq... Aameen

Ameen brother, Jazakumullahu khayran for the prayers.

Thank you for the correction AlBaqir, it is some sahaba, not all the sahaba.

AlBaqir:
Of course. It depend on the level of spirituality you want to attain. Even Jannah are of different stages. Prophets are of different ranks etc. What you do is what you get. Though there's no point doing 1million azkar without full concentration and connection to Allah. Whereas a saint or friend of Allah will only do 10 and instantly he will connect. Everything boils down to individual's inner qualities.

The bold is one of the issues with reciting 4000 this or 10,000 that, most of the people given this dhikr or Qur'an recitation cannot even read the Qur'an with proper tajweed, they cannot pronounce Arabic words correctly, and out of haste, they start mumbo jumbo. I have seen people recite the Qur'an, and i was perplexed, don't even let me start with some of the tricks they use (awa naa le aja alabi die )...and for what? they must recite a fixed number of surahs because of reasons not explicitly stated in the shar'ah!

AlBaqir:
The holy prophet was reported by 'Aisha to have prayed in the middle of the night to such extent that his two feet became swollen. If 'Aisha did not revealed that out, nobody would have known and he (peace be on him and his progeny) will never command or advise his companions in general to do such. Alas! That is only 1 out of many private ibaadat Aisha could see.

If there is any of such private ibaadat that was never seen or reported by anyone, even by his closest families, then such ibadaat is not meant for us.

AlBaqir:
Second, what we have as various forms of du'a, dhikr etc recommended by the prophet (which constitute the "Sunnah" are designed for the generality in such a simplified manner not to over-burden us because if he recommended more than that, people will be over-burdened and will eventually run away. Allah and His prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) knows our capability. This does not translate to "Do not do beyond that" or "if you do outside that, you've committed sin or bid'ah". There's no single evidence for that. However, the mistake our ulamas do make is they simply don't study the capability of their followers before they recommend.

Narrated 'Aisha (RA):

Whenever Allah's Apostle ordered the Muslims to do something, he used to order them deeds which were easy for them to do, (according to their strength endurance). They said, "O Allah's Apostle! We are not like you. Allah has forgiven your past and future sins." So Allah's Apostle became angry and it was apparent on his face. He said, "I am the most Allah fearing, and know Allah better than all of you do."
Sahih Bukhari Vol 1, Book 2, No 19

And I have been careful not to use bid'ah or haram for anyone, just trying to explain what is expected of us as Muslims.

AlBaqir:
Third, the presence of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) with the companions earn constantly certain unlimited blessings on its own to such an extent that if anyone of them prays as the prophet asked him/her to do, the result/manifestation is instant as a result of the presence of Nabiyy Rahma in their midst. Blessings encompass them, their livelihood, environment even the non-muslims benefits. The day he (peace be on him and his progeny) departed this world, that special blessings was cut off. History testified to how the companions labored after his departure. Its now left for you with your level of Iman, tawakkul and other inner qualities to reach Allah.

There is no doubt that the presence of a Prophet, a wali or even a righteous scholar, brings special blessings, but Allah's Rahma is always abundant and ever present with us, the Qur'an and Sunnah, are still with us, they are special blessings of Allah (SWT).

AlBaqir:
Repetition of dhikr to x number depending on your capability helps a lot in spiritual quest and reward.
If 10 rewards is written for 1 salawat ala Nabiyy, I will do as many x numbers I can to earn X10 of that reward. That mouth-watering but the ball is in your court.

NB: How many 'salawat' did the prophet do for himself and his progeny? How did sahaba do per day? None recorded in the 'ahadith' yet it was a plain command in the book of Allah for the believers. We are at liberty to do as we are capable of.

Apart from that, repetition helps esp for the negligent, absent-minded and even the friends of Allah. For the latter, the more they repeat (e.g beautiful attributes of Allah), the more the love increase as a result of the inner quality of marifa to that particular attribute thereby they find it difficult to stop. And if they do, the desire to do more comes.

For the beginners, absent-minded and negligent, perhaps they can connect sooner or latter when the repetition becomes part of them (consciously or unconsciously). If something becomes part of you, you will say it even when you are unconscious and the spiritual awakening it will give you will even be beyond your comprehension.

@bold,

It was narrated that Ubayy ibn Ka’b (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: When two-thirds of the night had passed, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would say: “O people, remember Allaah, remember Allaah. The first Trumpet is about to sound, and will soon be followed by the second; death has come with all that it entails, death has come with all that it entails.” Ubayy said: I said: O Messenger of Allaah, I send blessings upon you a great deal; how much of my prayer (du’aa’) should be for you? He said: “Whatever you wish.”

I said: One quarter? He said: “Whatever you wish, and if you do more it is better for you.”

I said: Half? He said: “Whatever you wish, and if you do more it is better for you.”

I said: Two thirds? He said: “Whatever you wish, and if you do more it is better for you.”

I said: Should I make all my du’aa’ for you? He said: “Then your concerns will be taken care of and your sins will be forgiven.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (2457); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

There are narrations where the Prophet (SAW) gave specific numbers, and there are narrations like above whereby he didn't give fixed number. Certainly we do not know more than him, we are told to obey the messanger (SAW), that is where guidance is.

And Allah t'ala Knows best.

Empiree,

The Sheikh in the video you uploaded did not make any reference to the Qur'an or Ahadith on Ruhaniyah, just sayings of some people. In the matter of religion, especially worship, if there is no reference to the Qur'an or Ahadith, then how can you be confident about it?! Are you trying to say that the Prophet (SAW) did not complete his task or deemed it unnecessary to inform us of these class of creation that we can interact with?! And no sahabah ever encountered them or talked about them?

The Qur'an is clear, and the Ahadith are clear, Allah created Man, Jinn and Angels, he created other things we don't know, and in His wisdom, he didn't mention it to us and hence, not important for our spirituality and salvation.

If you want to convince me that Ruhaniyah are not Jinns, then bring authentic ahadith or Qur'anic verses.

Thank you.

Empiree, please show some respect and adab, i wouldn't like you insulting my Ustaz, you don't know him, and i'm sure he is more knowledgeable than you. Even though i do not agree with some of his ways, he teaches and i learn.

I understand how you feel, and my post is not meant to discredit your Sheikh, but to increase all of us in knowledge and understanding.

I have come to know the true suffis, and they are not like the kind parading themselves these days. True Sufis stick to the shari'ah, they don't compromise on the sunnah. My dad told me about sufis he knew, they would be in a room with a bag of grain and make dhikr with each grain till the end, they don't fix counts or give people conditions unnecessary, they follow the sunnah to the letter, and they observe all the fardh form of worship.

I am lazy, Allah (SWT) knows, and I pray to be better bi idhniLLAH. But lets look at it this way, for every act you are to do in a day, there is a dhikr recommended by the Prophet (SAW), you have to memorize each, including the adhkar of morning and evening, you are constantly in ablution, you go for prayer as at when due with dhikr, you make the first row if you are not the Imam, you be the muazin, after each prayer, you do the recommended adhkar, then the recommended nawafils, then before sleep, you do the sunnah again, being in ablution, reciting surah sajdah and mulk, before that you make taubah, then you go to sleep with the remembrance of Allah (SWT) and just before dawn, you wake and you stand in the middle of the night, making nawafil and doing dhikr till your eyes overflow, do you know you don't even have to ask Allah (SWT) for anything, you would be given all what you need and even more. This is what the Sunnah entails and even more...

Do you know that part of seeking spirituality is to fully understand what being a Muslim entails which is submitting totally to Allah's will, and also to never complain to anyone of your affairs except to Allah (SWT) ? There is narration to this fact about the Sahabas.
I'll like to ask, did the Prophet(SAW) gathered the Sahabas for Ya sin 1000 before 313 overran a thousand at the battle of Badr? and what happened at the battle of Uhud? Sahabas neglected the instruction of the Prophet (SAW) and they suffered...

What i am trying to say is, attaining spirituality is far more that reciting Ya sin 1,111, it is by following the Sunnah! and if someone comes with what is not recorded in the Sunnah, or there is a deficiency in the narration, we do away with it, clinging on to the established authentic sunnah, cos that is the best way to felicity.

Allah Says: Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (Quran 24:54).

And Ameen to your Du'as

tbaba1234:
Jazakallahu Khairan sino,
Immediately empiree mentioned 'rawaniyah', I already knew that there were either muslim jinns or jinns that claim to be muslim.
All these recite x , thousands of times are just not part of the sunnah. Moderate simplicity.

Wa iyyakum bro, people have neglected the sunnah, and the sunnah way is the easiest and surest way. May Allah continue to guide us ameen.