₦airaland Forum

nedu2000: in mirnga,borno state (where I served) I was d NFCS coordinator there,the 1st thing the district head told me and my colleagues to our faces was that they will tolerate anything from us apart from their women and their religion & that anything that comes as a result of that we should take it,we don't carry bibles anyhow it their streets. I also mentored the xtian children girls in the the school is was posted(GGSS,mirnga)and what they went through in the hands of their muslim families & colleague is worthy of its own thread!!As for my experience is Qatar,the intolerance is legendary-there's a time limit and restrictions in possessing ur bible,I don't need to tell u evangelism is a criminal offence,leaving islam attracts the death penalty,u heard of the sudanese woman!!.You can get info from a 3rd party if u want.
80%?hmmm I'm being generous

I'm sorry, but if all you wrote here is what makes Muslims intolerant, then it's a huge joke!

I mean, you stated it yourself that they will tolerate anything except their women and religion, like what exactly would you want from their women and religion? If i come to your house, shouldn't I respect your beliefs and your family?

And do you carry your bible about everyday?

Please how does Qatar give time limits and restrict your possessing your bible? i don't understand...

And also, how come the intolerance of Qatar attracts Christians, making up 13.8% of their total population?! and they even have churches...

In May 2005, representatives of Christian churches in Qatar signed an agreement with the Qatari Government for a fifty-year lease on a large piece of property on the outskirts of Doha on which they intended to erect six churches at their own expense. The churches were expected to pay nominal lease fees of a few hundred dollars a year, renewable after ten years. The property was expected to include an Anglican church that may also be used by other Protestant denominations, a church to serve thirty four Indian-Christian congregations, a church for the country's small but influential Coptic community, and a site for two Orthodox churches, one Greek and one Eastern Rite. In December 2005, the foundation stone for the Catholic Church was laid and the ground-breaking took place at the end of April 2006. A board composed of members of all the Christian churches liaises directly with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding church matters. Each church has been granted permission to apply for visas for visiting clerics to preside over and assist in church services. Previously, Catholics and other Christians were limited to informal group meetings in homes.

The Anglican Church of the Epiphany, was officially opened on 21 September 2013 and consecrated on 28 September 2013. The church sanctuary can accommodate up to 650 worshipers. The Anglican Centre, managed by the Anglican Church in Qatar, accommodates 59 additional Evangelical, Pentecostal and Protestant congregations.[5]

The St Issac and St George Greek Orthodox Church serves the orthodox communities numbering about 10,000 people from the Middle East, Asia, Syria and Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Qatar

TheBigUrban2: Did you mentally block out the things she/he said about bibles in Qatar?

I remembered i had discussed this issue of banning bibles in the case of KSA, eventually, it was just plain misinformation being circulated, but, well, i would need to understand what is meant by public display of bibles, you know, i no sabi english We know some Christians can be very zealous when they intend to spread the gospel by fire by ....

TheBigUrban2: What about atheists? 13 islamic countries have death penalties for atheism. 13 countries!!!! Shame on any muslim that denies the intolerance. Shame shame shame

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210

Oh dear!
Are you upset? I read it's a global discrimination o, poor you guys, don't worry, just let me know when next you guys gather for worship or whatever you call it, and I'll come give you support, but hope you've got no fruitcakes amongst you o...

oopsy! I thought atheism is a religion

Beautiful!

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the best of Mankind, Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

Episode 1 had me thinking, did the Prophet not get annoyed with kids? Mehn, I try my best o, cos I've got a nephew and a niece that gets spanked once in a while, I just can't help it, they can be very annoying sometimes lol...But I love them though, and no matter how annoyed i get, they have a way of soothing my annoyance...

nedu2000: I don't know if ur a muslim or do,if u ain't try to be cautious,all muslim dominated countries persecute christians massively-quote me!!,if ur in a country like qatar is better,you only restriction is parading ur bible in public. The muslims down south r only tolerate 'cos they r not the dominant religion .Pls let's don't pretend it doesn't exist just 'cause we r advocating for world peace- a fair 80% of muslims are intolerant and that's a majority
NB: I've lived in Borno,Kano and visited qatar

See, we do not pretend, we tell it as it is. I beg to differ from your statistics, you say 80% are intolerant, how did you arrive at this? PLEASE DO TELL

While you were staying in these muslim dominated areas, what were the intolerance you experienced? Can you please share?

vedaxcool: Well played

You should check the modified version it really captures were my power is coming from lol

By the power confered on me by the ijmah of reformist/modernist "Muslims", and deriving conclusions from your recent posts, I hereby dub thee, vedaxcool, a passive terrorist!

When America killed innocent millions because of one man, they are justified, they have the right to kill and destroy, and when a minute group of "supposed" Muslims kill few innocent people, including Muslims, Islam and Muslims are terrorist. And when Muslims and Scholars condemn these acts of terrorism, they still are not doing enough, they are being deceptive ... I wonder what they truly want from Muslims...

Modified

Running Orders: Lena Khalaf Tuffaha

They call us now.
Before they drop the bombs.
The phone rings
and someone who knows my first name
calls and says in perfect Arabic
“This is David.”
And in my stupor of sonic booms and glass shattering symphonies
still smashing around in my head
I think “Do I know any Davids in Gaza?”
They call us now to say
Run.
You have 58 seconds from the end of this message.
Your house is next.
They think of it as some kind of war time courtesy.
It doesn’t matter that
there is nowhere to run to.
It means nothing that the borders are closed
and your papers are worthless
and mark you only for a life sentence
in this prison by the sea
and the alleyways are narrow
and there are more human lives
packed one against the other
more than any other place on earth
Just run.
We aren’t trying to kill you.
It doesn’t matter that
you can’t call us back to tell us
the people we claim to want aren’t in your house
that there’s no one here
except you and your children
who were cheering for Argentina
sharing the last loaf of bread for this week
counting candles left in case the power goes out.
It doesn’t matter that you have children.
You live in the wrong place
and now is your chance to run
to nowhere.
It doesn’t matter
that 58 seconds isn’t long enough
to find your wedding album
or your son’s favorite blanket
or your daughter’s almost completed college application
or your shoes
or to gather everyone in the house.
It doesn’t matter what you had planned.
It doesn’t matter who you are
Prove you’re human.
Prove you stand on two legs.
Run.

Subhanallah!

I just love this dude for Allah's sake, the more i listen to him, the more i find solace and tranquility in my quest for spirituality...

He understands his environment, especially, the youths, and he is trying his best to bring them back to the right path....

May Allah reward him with the best of His rewards...

Talking about fame, weren't the scholars of the past famous? i was reading a book on science of hadith recently, and some of the scholars mentioned had gatherings of thousands, they were well known and they had multitude of followers...People loved them, and people would quote them to buttress their arguments or opinions and people still do till date.

May Allah continue to guide us all ameen.

andromida: Yeah its this vow i'd like to know. The one sanctioned in the shariah and stated by the officiating Imam. Can you help out?

The vow is the position of trust Allah has placed on both the man and the woman to carry out their responsibilities effectively as they become legally joined together, it is called Al- Amanah in Arabic (it is also used for other situations/relationships such as between parents and offspring, leaders and followers, employer and employee etc.), it is more emphasized on the man in marriage, cos he is meant to be the head of the family. This trust is obligatory, and each individual will be questioned in regards to how s/he fulfilled this trust. Marriage in Islam is a religious duty, a form of worship, whereby you are rewarded for the acts sanctioned therein, and can also be punished if found wanting of such actions...Automatically, as you both go into marriage, you have made and accepted this vow.

In regards to the rights of both husband and wife, stated during the wedding ceremony, and other issues, check out this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1239870/rights-duties-husband-wife-islam

It should however be noted, that all these rights and responsibilities are expected to be carried out in the atmosphere of love, mercy and partnership as stated in the Holy Qur'an.

While I do not fault those who followed the Sultan, or even the Sultan himself, I cannot help but disagree to the veracity of the reports brought to the Sultan.

We are not living in isolation, the world is now a Global village, matters in regards to the deen in any part of the globe concerns all, even with the fact that some issues, such as moon sighting is still based on locality.

Indeed, the Sultan followed the Sunnah, and Muslims followed the Sultan, to the best of my knowledge, no one is going against this. But do we turn blind eyes to facts, evidences and the truth?!
If we do not find a lasting solution to this issue, like other countries have, then we are just deceiving ourselves.

I know there is politics involved in this issue, but that does not interest me in the least, some of us are more informed than others, some of us are just laymen, just tell us what to do...

No one talking about science here is advocating we jettison the Sunnah, we know they both can work together, to give us the most accurate position, to erase all doubt, if you must know, the Sunnatic approach, is also scientific.

Please read the quotes below, I tried to present facts, questions and answers, which should give us all insight to were I and most people advocating science stand...

The Astronomical New Moon is on Saturday July 26, 2014 at 22:42 UT. There is no possibility of moonsighting on that day. On July 27, the moon can be seen with difficulty in South America, but can easily be seen in Polynesian Islands. However, there are not many Muslims reporting moonsighting. On July 28, the moon can easily be seen in almost the whole world, except Northern Asia and Europe (See visibility curves).

https://moonsighting.com/moonphotos/1435rmd20140726oldmoon.jpg

Old Crescent Moon (not the new moon to start Shawwal 1435 AH), July 26, 2014: This is decreasing moon that was sighted in the East at Fajr time on Saturday 26 July 2014 at 06:40 to 07:00 AM in Flat Bush suburb in Auckland New Zealand by naked eye. This is not the moon to start Shawwal. It was reported by an MCW member, Mr. Arief Syamsulaksana of Auckland. It is posted here to show the world that the moon seen in the morning before sunrise is actually decreasing moon while the New Moon is not even born yet. So Muslims understand that the sighting of decreasing moon has no significance for starting the Islamic month.

1.10   Question: Some argue that the predictions of astronomers in many astronomical phenomena are not precise. Therefore, how can we take their words regarding the 'hilal'? Are there any differences between these astronomical phenomena?

Answer: Prediction by astronomers are based on each individual study and research and they are different. Do not take their words. Always judge their words by observations. However, new moon birth can be calculated precisely.


2.1   Question: After the Moon Birth, how much time is required for people to sight the New Moon?

Answer: Time passed after New Moon Birth is called the age of the moon. Sighting is possible at different age in different months. So, age cannot be a criterion for sighting. Why is it so? Because, the orbit of the moon is elliptical and in its orbit, the moon moves faster when it is closer to the earth, and slower when it is farther from earth. When it moves faster, the moon becomes visible at smaller age (like 17 hours), and when it moves slower, it becomes visible at larger age (like 23 hours). The main factor that makes the moon visible is the angle between moon-earth-sun. When this angle becomes about 9 degrees, the moon starts to be visible. How much time it takes to get this angle depends upon the speed of the moon in its orbit.

2.2   Question: When has the earliest new moon crescent been seen after new moon was born? (Dec 4,1997)

Answer: Moon sighting does not depend on age. Non-Muslims have treated this question as a sport, "Who can see the youngest moon." In the zeal of their competition, they claim early and early sightings, which are in most cases false, as many claims have been refuted with no sighting at places thousands of miles west. There was an article in Quarterly Journal of Royal Astronomical Society, Q.J.R. Astr. Soc. (1993) 34, p53-56, "Records for young Moon Sightings," by Bradley Schaefer, Imad Ahmad, and LeRoy Doggett. They have refuted some sighting claims. However, they accepted the two following claims:

1. Morning crescent on Sep 14, 1871, Age -15.4h at Athens Greece, seen by Schmidt (Naked eye)
2. Evening crescent on May 5, 1989, Age 13.47h East Lansing, MI, seen by Victor (Binocular only)

Both of these claims are questionable; the first one with naked eye has been a record so old that it has not been met in the recent century, and therefore is doubtful. There is no way it can be justified. The second one is questionable, as I, Khalid Shaukat had talked to Bob Victor who told me that there were two other persons with him and they could not see the moon. Moreover, from Michigan to West coast, no where it was seen. This paper also did not accept May 5, 1989 sighting of Badat in Houston reported by "Mohib Durrani." The article mentions that reported altitude was wrong. I personally talked to Badat and he told me he casually looked over his shoulder as he was standing for Maghrib prayers and he saw the moon quite high. The authentic naked eye sightings are at about 17.2 hours, and 15.5 hours by observatory telescopes. Remember, in some seasons, earliest moonsighting takes about 24 hours. So if the moon has become 17 hours old or more, one can not conclude that it is possible to see that moon.

2.3   Question: What is the record time between a new moon and its first possible sighting, and is this result available for every point on earth? (Jan 15,1998)

Answer: No, this result is certainly not available for every point on earth. According to different individual claims, the record time between new moon and its sighting varies for naked eye, and aided eye (binocular or telescope). Dr. Doggett of U.S. Naval Observatory, Dr. Schaefer of Yale University, and Dr. Ahmad, a Professional astronomer have written a research paper on a collection of most early sighting claims, Q.J.R. Astr. Soc. (1993) 34, p53-56, "Records for young Moon Sightings." For naked eye, claims are with the age 0 to 15.4 hours, but all claims less than 15 hours are not considered credible by professional experts in this field for various reasons. Some were reported a few days or weeks later, some few month later and in some cases, it was found that skies were overcast in that area, so claims were made for wrong dates. For aided eye, claims less than 13.47 hours are not considered credible.

However, one point must be understood, and that is, even if a moon was sighted at the age 15.4 hours by naked eye, or 13.47 hours by aided eye, it does not mean that every time moon age reaches those limits, it could be visible. In some months, moon could not be visible any place on the globe until it becomes 23 hours old. That still does not mean that a 23 hour old moon will always be visible from every place on the globe.

2.4   Question: What is the "scientific" basis for the apparently accepted view that the moon cannot be sighted with naked eye if it younger than 13 hours or so? (Dec 24, 1998)

Answer: Scientific basis is that in 13 hours, the angular separation of the moon from sun is between 7.2° to 8.5°. The angular separation (elongation) is the most important factor in moon's visibility besides several other factors combined. At the angle 7°, no sun light reflected from the moon can come to the earth meaning that the crescent is not formed to see from earth (This is due to the mountains on the surface of the moon that block the sunlight coming to the earth - Danjon effect). Between 7.2 and 8.5° the crescent is invisible to the eyes, because the brightness of this thin crescent is less than the sky brightness on the horizon. At elongation less than about 7.5° even telescopes do not pick the thin crescent. This is the discussion for naked eye versus telescope or binocular sightings.

The published record for moonsighting with bare eyes shows that no one has ever seen the crescent of less than 15.4 hours old [See "Records of Young Moon Sightings, Quarterly Journal of Royal Astronomical Society (1993) 34, 53-56, article by Schaefer, Ahmad, and Doggett]. This sighting was done on Sep 14, 1871 CE. The angular separation was 9.3°. That was in the previous century, when atmospheric pollution, and city light pollution did not exist. Now, it is not possible to see even this kind of crescent. In recent times the crescent that has been seen with naked eye had the angle of 10.5° which corresponds to 17 to 21 hours of age. Remember, even 17 to 21 hours age does not mean that every moon of this age will be visible. There are other factors that must meet the certain minimum for a crescent to be visible.

Perhaps, Allah wants this controversy to help us find a better and lasting solution to this perennial problem of moon sighting in Nigeria.

And Only Allah Knows best.

Ever Wonder Why?
I wonder, why our Ulamaa' (Scholars) issue Fatwas, which seem ridiculous. For example,:
(1) 300 years ago, when clocks and watches were invented; using those devices not allowed per Fatwas of that time for prayer times.
(2) 150 years ago, translating Qur'an in any other language was considered a tabu, and was not allowed per Fatwas by Ulamaa of that time.
(3) 100 years ago, in India, calculated Prayer Times were not acceptable per Fatwas by Ulamaa of that time.
(4) 60 years ago, loud speakers use for Prayers was considered Haraam, per Fatwas by Ulamma' in Indo-Pak.
(5) 50 years ago, taking picture for ID or passports was considered Haraam, per Fatwas by Ulamma' in Indo-Pak.
Now, all the above is considered, not only allowed, but people don't even know that these were not allowed before. Why, it takes decades for Ulamaa' to accept such things.
(6) For the last 30 years, Ulamaa' do not accept moon-sighting by telescope.
Would it take another few decades to accept that??

Quotes were taken from: http://moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html

infofirst: A brother wrote this 24hours ago on His Fb page...
With the size and clarity of the moon I saw today in my house in Dutsin-ma, Katsina state, even without my glasses nobody can call it that of second day. Therefore if truly any equipment indicated the moon can not be sighted anywhere on Saturday 26th as stated in the press briefing of the NSCIA secretary general, it is important to work on the accuracy of the equipment or we just forget about the equipment and continue with our "more accurate" traditional method.

With my little knowledge of moon development in few books have read, what came out yesterday is of the 3rd day. Walahu alam

So what did the moon you sight look like tonight in your area?

Anyone can claim anything, this does not prove anything. I saw the crescent today here in Lagos, and with what i saw, it cannot be that of Saturday lai lai, even, people around were commenting that Saturday sighting was wrong.

But it is quite funny o, pipo carry teloscopu, bynancularsi and dia koro koro eyes, dem no see anything, all around the worldu, na for naija we take see am with koro koro eyes, d day wey the moon born, upon all the informate say when moon born, you no fit see am with ya koro koro eyes...

It is questionable, questionable means it is not certain and indeed doubtful, that alone requires further investigation, reports came back again, ascertaining the impossibility of seeing the crescent on the said day, but what do we do? We wait for the Sultan...

ShehuAba: It seems tbaba1234 and sino are getting me all wrong.
The investigative report is a good thing. from the report by premium times they are trying to insinuate as if they sultan and his palace have alluded to it. A report is subject to acceptance or rejection. No media house has the right to speak for the sultan or any body. They should be objective in their reportage and not mislead the citizenry as they have done thus far with this report.
That's what I am insinuating and until something credible is reported I won't accept it.
@ sino I am aware of the reward for fasting and it takes me nothing to fast but I will never do that when am not supposed.

Brother, i understand your point, and that is why i am still hoping there would be an official statement by the Sultan...

Why i am concerned is that, the evidences presented are overwhelming to overlook, i personally would not be comfortable with all these reports, how could one be comfortable with glaring evidences of impossibility of seeing the crescent with naked eyes on Saturday? If you read the report of the investigation, it states that:

"The result of the investigation, also endorsed by the Sultan’s representatives, was unambiguous: The claim that the moon was sighted on Saturday was questionable as it was impossible for anyone to see the moon anywhere in the world at that time."

It was also stated that the Sultan was the one who commissioned the investigation;

"The Sultan, who is also the President of the Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs [NSCIA], commissioned the joint moonsighting investigation after his Saturday call triggered controversy, with some of the nation’s foremost clerics as well as the Secretary General of the NSCIA, Is-haq Oloyede, openly questioning his judgment."

Premium times is just a medium for the public to have access to the report of the investigation, do you think it is wise for you after reading this report yourself, still wait on the Sultan? What are you really waiting for? That the report should be rejected?

There is no excuse of ignorance here, you have read it yourself, and on the day of Judgment, na everyman for himself o.

ShehuAba: How is it sufficient for a wise Muslim. we don't expect him to come on TV and allude to it. But we can also not fast in error. The fact that you didn't agree with the sultan doesn't mean you should support false hood. The report is not comprehensive enough for us to start repaying our fast. Premium times didn't order us to fast and break our fast. Rather it was the sultan we obeyed. So we await him to make a pronouncement on this , if it's really true.

I am not supporting falsehood, i support the truth. The science approach is empirical and reproducible, Allah did not grant us knowlledge and the intellect for fun...

There is always a reward for fasting, either for repaying a missed fast or voluntary...It will cost you nothing.

If you are waiting on the Sultan to come on TV to make an announcement, then i'm afraid you are on a long thing, but i am hopeful....
I believe this report is suffient for a wise Muslim.

Just repay a day fast lobatan!

Inaa lillahi wa inaa ileyhi raji'un

May Allah comfort the families and forgive the dead, and have mercy on his soul ameen.

LagosShia: imagine a pastor wearing thick protective rubber clothing to perform a miracle on an ebola victim!!!

they really can't toy with this virus to use it to make scam money except if they want real ebola victims to troop to their churches and share the gift with them. or they may simply have to keep the real victims away and use actors to make a charade in the name of miracle.

The anointing is in the rubber clothing

They would need an advanced theatrics to pull such a stunt with actors o, nollywood no go fit help, i suggest hollywood

vedaxcool: Oh, I see, permit me to ask if the moon was seen after 12 would it still be accepted as being an indication of when to start or stop fasting?

10.5 Question: How much time is required for the 1st hilal to remain in the sky after sunset for visibility according to your findings? Why it is invisible if it remains above the horizon for more than 40 minutes after sun set? (Jan 20, 1999)

Answer: Time varies for locations and months. On one particular evening a crescent may be thinnest in Japan but the same crescent will be 15 hours to 18 hours thicker in USA, and would remain in the sky above horizon at different latitudes for different duration.

Sometimes the crescent may remain above horizon for more than 1 hour but it may not be seen, because it does not have any light of its own; it merely reflects sunlight, which it can only reflect if moon is at least a certain angle from the sun. Even when it meets minimum angle requirement, in some cases, the crescent is invisible because of being too low on the horizon, such that the background light of the setting sun on the horizon is brighter than the crescent.

If you understand that moon does not have its own light, then its presence on the sky does not mean it is visible. You should realize that on 28th or 29th evening of a lunar month the moon disappears from sight; this is mainly for the same reason that it is not at sufficient angle to reflect sunlight.

http://www.moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html#Criteria

I think from the above, it can be deduced that it is impossible to see a new moon after 12 midnight, even the time limit for visibility is very short, i could remember one sighting that was reported at my mosque, people were gathered and looking, but i was focused on going into the mosque for prayers cos the prayer had started, on finishing my prayer and azkar, i now wanted to view the new moon, alas! it was nowhere to be found! mind you, this was not in the month of Ramadan. So such sighting at 12 midnight is definitely not the moon.

vedaxcool: How would any sane individual play with such virus? I have heard stories of missionaries visiting villages with little access to good health care, only for them to use the "discovery" of ailments that one have never heard of, as tools for manipulating the unsuspecting villages. In the event any Nigerian church claims that it can cure Ebola, it should be closed down, property ceased and its GO should be arrested. Enough of the use of religion to fleece the general public!

Nah bro, the government needs to work with such a church or MOG (it is cheaper than to invest billions in research looking for a cure), albeit put them under quarantine, and ship all Ebola virus victims to them...After a month, the government should then do the needful!

People need to liberate themselves from religious 419!

vedaxcool: On the moon issue, I will go with mac on this, it doesn't just make sense that muslims would have sat down and sunken so low to the extent of farbricating citing the moon, I don't blame the sultan for any of this, he just worked with the information at his disposal. I expected oloyede should have handled the matter better rather than in such a brazen and rude manner, we find ourselves in situations that requires tack and wisdom, he should have applied both.

Did 12 mid night existed in the prophet pbuh? use to think lunar calender, evrry new day starts at night - dark- hence the dark only finishes when the dawn breaks not at 12 mid night?

12 mid night existed, but was not known as 12 mid night lol, i have forgotten the arabic word used for different parts of the night, i learnt it a very long time ago...and yes, the night comes before the day, so until fajr, night it is (generally speaking).

This is very sad, but we do not hear about this, it never would make headlines. How dare you publish a narrative of the sufferings of the Palestinians? And some fruitcakes on Nairaland will be jubilant on hearing the atrocities of the Israelis and sing their praises smh

Yeah, the Jews are always the victims, they are always innocent, they are loving people who just like killing their subjugated hosts for sports

AlBaqir: You are right brother. The area that made me go to such length is:


That underlined part preached, in my understanding, "seat don dey look" as against rising against corruption and evil of the leader.

Brother, there are countless hadith of such that "forbid" uprising against leader even if they are corrupt.



Fair enough brother. Salam

Sidon look wetin? lol, Scholars of the past, were even more harsh to the rulers than the other citizens, a scholar who goes to the doors of the rulers is not respected at all...check for example these quotes...

Sufyan At-Thawri said:
“Even if they (rulers) ask you to read “Qul huwallahu ahad” for them, don’t go!”["Tabaqaat Al-Kubra", 6/372]

Ibn Rajab narrated:
Abu Haazim is narrated to have said: “The scholars of the past used to flee from the Sultaan, while the Sultaan used to chase them. Today, they chase the doors of the Sultaan, while the Sultaan flees from them!”
["Jami Al-Bayan", 2/280]

Al-Qazwiny narrates an incident about Ibn Abeed :
One day he was walking past some people who were standing , so he said: “Why are you standing here?” They said: “The king is cutting the hand of a thief.” He said: “So the thief who steals openly (the king) is cutting off the hand of the thief who stole secretly.”
["Athaar Al-Bilaad", 1/125].

To put those hadith you talked about into perspective, i believe it is a gradual process before revolt comes in, there should be adequate consultations and calling to order by scholars, either behind close doors or in the open. If we revolt on the basis of a rulers sinfulness, without following proper procedure, then there would be chaos, remember we are humans.

An-Nawawi says:
“And as for revolt – meaning against the rulers – and fighting them, then it is haraam by unanimous agreement (ijmaa’) of the Muslims, even if they are sinful oppressors. And the hadeeth are abundantly overwhelming with the meaning that I have mentioned. And Ahl us-Sunnah are united that the ruler is not to be removed, on account of his sinfulness”.
["Sharh al-Sahih Muslim", 12/229].

But if the ruler becomes adamant and unrepentant, then,

Al-Nawawi says:
“Al-Qadhi Iyadh said: “If he is adamant on Kufr, (and) in changing the shariah, or on innovation, then his obedience is invalid and it becomes a duty upon the Muslims to revolt against him, removing him and placing a just Imam (ruler) in his place IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY”.
["Sharh al-Sahih Muslim", 12/229].

Ibn Battal says:
“When a sultan shows clear kufr, then obedience is no longer obligatory, in fact its wajib UPON THOSE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY to strive against him”.
["Fath al-Baari", 13/7].

Sissie: We do not take vows like that, but couples are allowed to take vows between themselves, we just dont do it openly and publicly.

Exactly, in addition, the most important vow is the one sanctioned in the Shariah, which is the trust from Allah placed on the man in regards to his wife, and the rights of the two parties which is always stated by the officiating Imam.

AlBaqir: What an excellent and fair comment. May Allah support you for that.

Ameen

AlBaqir: Am sorry this hadith claimed to be reported from the prophet (saws) (the bolded part as also related to corrupt rulers) contradict so many verses of the holy Quran and actions of the prophet's ahl al-bayt (as), both the Legacy left for the Ummah.

Countless verses repeatedly urge the believers to stand and support the truth. Countless verses urged us equally to stand against falsehood and tyranny.

When Allah choose Nabi Ibrahim and his offspring to be Leader (Imam) over mankind, Allah said His promise will never reach the transgressor among his offspring.

Allah never choose transgressor and tyrant as Leader over people. Community (people), due to ignorance or corruption, do choose against the will of their Lord. However, the believer among them must stand up against tyranny, corruption and transgression. It is the responsibility of believers to established Allah's will and justice on earth.

Golden Example In History
Imam Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi talib (as) stood against falsehood and tyranny of the "khalifa" of his time, the cursed Yazid ibn mu'awiyyah. This was a time when Yazid was already almost substituted the Sunnah of the prophet (saws) with innovations, corruption and evil doings. Many of the sahabas left then were in great trauma.

Another sound example of our time was the Iranian Revolution led by Imam Khomeini against Shah Pahlavi who for decades had turned a religious nation of Iran to "western corrupt and influenced" society. Islamic legacy, civilization and culture was going extinct at the time. Imam khomeini launched an Islamic Revolution, succeeded by Allah's will and establish an Islamic government.

The deadly blow and innovations a bad leader will spread for generations to come if not checked

Lastly, the narrator of this hadith was Abu Hurairah. Abu Huraira came to lime-light at the time of Mu'awiyyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, who made him one of his Governor and lavished him with riches.

Maulana Abu A'la Mawdudi in his "al-Khilafa wa Mulkiyah" exposed Mu'awiyah to the fullest of his atrocities and evil, and Abu Hurairah was always there to narrate "hadith" as seen above to cover him. It is interesting the harsh attitude of the 2nd khalifa, Umar towards Abu Hurairah for relating excessive hadith (during his time). Aisha, the wife of the prophet condemned him severally for ascribing lies against the prophet (saws). Imam Ali (as) never ever allowed him in his vicinity.

NB: Abundant evidences are available for my claims.

Salam.

The hadith is in no way contradicting the Qur'an, it is quite simple, there would come a time where corrupt people would become rulers, obey them only on the truth. This does not stop speaking the truth against their corruption, tyranny and oppression. That is where we need the upright scholars to do their work and call the leader to order...

All over the Muslim world, there had been a tyrant, corrupt and even a disbeliever ruling the Muslims, even the examples you gave points to the fact that there are corrupt leaders...So what do you expect the layman to do?

I am aware of your reservations for Abu Hurayrah, I'm not equipped to go into a detailed discussion in regards to him.

Salam

ShehuAba: @ bolded, I deduce you meant to tell us that what the sultan announced is incompatible with the truth. Well since you also stated up there that from all insinuations it was clear that the sultan received factual evidence that the moon was sighted. so it's now left for all to choose that which he thinks is right.
A final question if nature goes contrary to science, which is best to be followed.

I quoted the hadith to dispel the wrong notion of following the authority absolutely, as i said, i do not blame the Sultan, Allah is aware of that which is hidden to us all...

Do you mean, by your question, that the moon is seen with naked eyes when it has been predicted not to be seen at all by science? if that is the case, then there is no problem, especially, i know from moonsighting .com, they do have registered members scattered over the world with their kits that are always on the lookout, not only that, then it would not be an isolated case such as we have witnessed in Nigeria. There is only one moon!

Unless it's a miracle, and Nigeria is a special country.

@Mac, i am surprised at your comments thus far, i believe you are not new to technology, and i also believe you do have those prayer time apps? If you do, then why would you then disregard reports from moonsighting. com that have more than 20years dedicated to the sighting of moon?

We all were alive when the prediction for the solar eclipse was announced, we witnessed the accuracy of the prediction. Allah has blessed us with the knowledge to accurately predict these events, there is no way it will replace the sunnah, rather it should enhance the sunnah and end this continuous back and forth every Ramadan.

I do not fault the Sultan, from the reports i have read so far, he was bombarded by reports of "true" sighting, as a result of that, he made the announcement, but i'll not go ahead with following such announcement, knowing fully well that it is impossible to see the moon with naked eyes on Saturday, and knowing the implication on "me" with following such a news...

For those who did follow the announcement, there is no blame on you, your fast and eid are valid...

Hisham ibn Urwah has related from Abu Salih from Abu Hurairah that the messanger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said:"After me governors would rule over you and those who are upright would rule you by their uprightness and those who are corrupt will rule over you by their corruptness: listen to them and obey them in everything which is compatible with the truth- if they are correct in their dealings then it will be to your benefits and theirs, and if they are incorrectly then that will still be to your benefit (in the next world) but will be held against them."

May Allah Guide us all, ameen.

maclatunji: @Sino, I did not see your response. You could send me a PM.

Okay, I will.

Bump.

Slitz: lmao ...a very brilliant piece!!

Alhamdulilah, thank you sis

baba11: Hot cake?hmmm,I hope you serve it hot b4 it get cool#justkidding...why'll our brothers go for xtian ladies except if we don't have enough ones to go round or maybe they aren't ready to settle down.

No bro, a cake is always served cold I think cold cake should be used lol

maclatunji: Lily-livered fellow. I should send you a PM.

gathering liver doesn't imply that I am lily-livered o

Seen your pm and fired back a reply

ShehuAba: @sino Jazakumullah Khairan.

Wa iyyakum bro.

deols: I wrote this for tbaba1234, the teacher. I am not a poet o. Just accept it as it is.
Note the distinction btwn 'the'and 'A'
------------------------------------------------------------
In the path of faith I sought the man
For the sake of man I walked in goodness
The goodness surfaced, it gloomed
From gloom to dim to darkness

In the path of darkness I seek the God
For the sake of Him I seek the man
A man, the teacher heralds
To teach the faith again
A path to God to Glory; herein lies peace, tranquility

Alhamdulilah! i'm so happy reading this

and very impressive poem even though written by one who claims not to be a poet