₦airaland Forum

FRANCISTOWN:
Don't argue what you do not know.
Use Google.
There are several archeological facts that Mohammed lived.
Several of the relics are still available until these days.

What you are even saying is funny. I'm not a fan of Mohammed, but the evidence of Muhammad's existence is Crystal clear unlike that of Jesus.

Mohammed lived, but Jesus didn't

I'm not saying anything on this again because I don't know how a grown man like you would say there are no proofs of the existence of Mohammed. When the Google is available unto you.

I won't argue on behalf of the Muslims. Let them come and do justice on behalf of their prophet.

Whether Jesus or Mohammed or IFA or whatever it is. I'm not an advocate of any religion.

My way of life is common sense and reasoning.


In fact, the first record of such place being the burial site of Mohammed appeared in the 9th century.



The textual evidences of Mohammed's existence are leading to factual and hard evidence. At least, there is a place called the tomb of Mohammed. Several other historical report mentioned Mohammed, the letters he sent to kings are captured all over historical reports.
You are making me use Google in a way I don't wanna use it these days.
Oya check this

After that, come back and tell me that Mohammed never lived.

Go to isreal and ask about Jesus, many don't even know him. Is this playing? Can you say the same for Mohammed in UAE?

Mr Man, I've used Google but can't find any archeological evidence of Muhammed. If u have any, bring it here and let's examine it. A tomb that have no engraved marking dated in the 7th century cannot be regarded as archeological.
I can as well accept the oranmiyan staff in Ife as real and that oranmiyan was a giant who was 18feet tall thus needed such staff.

What's my business if Muhammed is real or fake. The later only makes Islam worse. My problem with u is accepting textual evidence of Muhammed but rejecting same evidence of Jesus.

Muhammed was an Arab king in the 7th century who United the Arab tribes into one state...he's not an obscured nobody during his life time. There should be multiple textual evidence of his existence. Unfortunately, what we have are scanty, weak and doubtful inference in 1-2 letters of this man prior to the 9th century.
So much for a king and a supposed popular historical figure during his time.
Where are the letters he wrote to the Syrians, Egyptian, Persians and the Byzantine empires.
Sebi it was said he met with the Roman emperor Heraclitus. Where is the historical evidence of such meeting?
The Arab were great poets in the 7th century, how come we can't find any 7th Arab writings of their great king.
Even when the Christian Syriac people were defeated, they mentioned Arab invasion but nothing about Muhammed.

The so called Mecca city was only mentioned in historical context around 8th century after Islam had taken deep root. Mecca was meant to be an ancient city where Adam and Abraham visited but there's no ancient map depicting a region called Mecca and no historical reference to such city prior to 7th century AD.

FRANCISTOWN:
SirTee are you honestly whining me?

Please read thru what I posted again.

Again, the Bible says Jesus got tomb but he rose from it.

Where is that tomb where he rose from?

At least we know where Muhammad's tomb is

An empty tomb is useless, it's inconsequential. U can visit the holy sepulchre aedicle in Jerusalem if u obsessed with empty tomb. Some people worship it anyway.
Same way people point to above as traditional burial site of Jesus is the same way people point to green dome in al masjid nabawi as burial site of Muhammad. There's no archeological or historical evidence that confirms Muhammad was buried in the grave, no engraved inscription dating back to 7th century anywhere near the site confirming it's the burial site.
In fact, the first record of such place being the burial site of Muhammed appeared in the 9th century.

Now answer my question, why did u reject the textual evidence of Jesus existence but presented to me the textual evidence of Muhammed. Is that not hypocrisy?

FRANCISTOWN:
There are just too many
Well, there is more evidence about existence of Honorable Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, than any other human being from that age (even from hundreds of year after him).

I will like to share evidence from non-Islamic sources, in case you don’t trust Muslims just because they are Muslims.

Prophet Muhammad sent letters to various heads of the states, that are still present. You can read more about them here.

Evidences in the historical records of other nations. There's a book by Robert Hoyland that lists more than 120 documents that point to Muhammad's existence. This book named Seeing Islam as Others Saw It, includes evidence from various sources including Greek, Syrian, Coptic, Armenian, Latin, Jewish, Persian and Chinese.

And then there was a Ninth century Byzantine chronicler Theophanes the Confessor who gave a biography of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. He said here:

In this year died Mouamed, the leader and false prophet of the Saracens, after appointing his kinsman Aboubacharos (to his chieftainship).[1] At the same time his repute spread abroad) and everyone was frightened.

He did not mentioned Honorable Prophet Muhammad in best of the words due to his sheer ignorance, but still his account proves the existence of Prophet Muhammad.

You can read more details in the following link, actually I most of my answer from the following link.
Quora

The tombs of Muhammad, Abubakar, Umar and Aisha are still here until this very day.

Where is the tomb of Jesus?

I thought u were going to bring archeological evidence of Muhammed but u brought written text.
So why do u reject historical written evidence of Jesus by Tacitus, Josephus etc. Is this not double standard.

Jesus has no tomb, u should know that if u were ever a Christian.

FRANCISTOWN:
The gospel of Christ was written
anywhere in between 70 - 120th
year of the Lord sir.
And Peter already died.

Why are you acting like this
on a public forum now?
The gospel of Mark
was written around 70 A.D
- 120 A.D. Use the Google
now



No sane mind will base his judgement
on something as feeble as historical
fallacies.
By the way, the burden of evidence
rests on you, not on me. If I told you
I have a snake with limbs in my house
that cooks my meal. you should raise
an eyebrow.
I should be the one to provide you
with evidence since I'm the one who
claims the existence of such.
Me asking you to bring the evidence
that the snake is not in my house shows
a very high level of irresponsibility and
negligence on my path.

I claim Jesus never exist, you claim he did.
You do not believe in the Flying Spaghetti
Monster of the Pastafarians. You are sure
ain't such thing.

Let's say a Pastafarian requests you to
prove the non existent of the Flying
Spaghetti Monster, won't you wonder
whether the guy is got sense at all.

Also if I told you there is a watch that I
inherited from my grandfather that tells
when someone will die. I'll be sensible
enough to not ask you to show proofs
that I'm lying.

You see, it is what it is. Until you can
proof the existence of your imaginary
fairy character called "Yehushua", your
argument doesn't hold water.

Also, I'll need you to read on how
christianity was accepted in the Europes.

Christianity really needs to appreciate
women. They did a lot in the spread of
christianity.


I beg to disagree with this sir.
There are proofs that Dinosaurs lived.
There are proofs of Hominins.
There are proofs of early civilisations
before mankind.
Okay! There is a proof of the city
of David, but no proof of a man
called David himself.

There is a proof that truly there was a
city in Egypt where the Isrealites once
lived, but they were never slaves as
said by the Bible.

There is a proof that Siddhartha Gautama
Buddha lived.

Those were several years before the time
of your said "Son of God".
Stay with me one sec.
There are proofs that Mohammed
lived.
There is a proof that Umar, Abubakar
lived.

How come there are no other proofs
except historical fallacies about a whole
"son of God".

We are talking about a "Whole son of God"
not an adopted one.

Now think about it. Do you expect me
to believe the same book which claimed
that snakes talked?
A book that didn't know that the sun is
always still?
A book full of old wives fables to amuse
kids?

No I'm not gonna do that bro.

Show me the historical evidence of Muhammad.

FRANCISTOWN:
Wait, what kind of a person
do you think you are talking
to.
My arguments are never based
on a single point of view. Check
all my earlier posts.
As much as I reject the existence
of any god, if I saw a christian
who says anything reasonable,
I'll acknowledge such post and I'll
praise the person.
My arguments on NL is not to
win any arguments, it's to
widen everyone's thinking
horizon.

In the links I asked you to check
out. Lemme start from the first.
Pliny and Tacitus work cannot be
proven, because no one can really
tell the exact date those works
were written, and they could have
been some parts of the Bible that
were rejected. I repeat that no
archeological facts, or any other
written works about Jesus' life
has been detected so far. If there
were archeological facts about the
"city of David" who lived centuries
before the time of your said "son
of God". How come there are no
facts to solidify that of Jesus?

Also, please read the link again.
The first gospel "Mark" was not
written by any of the apostle
directly.
@the emboldened, 50years A.D
means 50 years after the death
of jesus and not within 20 years
after he lived.
Also, I'll like to point to the erro-
neous assertion that you made
about the gospel of Mark, the
gospel of Mark was not written
In 50.AD. it was infact written in
anything between 70A.D-120 A.D.
It was finished and completed
after the first century.

Let's say it was written in the year
70 A.D. Note that, Mark himself
was not a disciple of jesus. Read
that again, Mark was not a direct
disciple of jesus

The gospel of Mark was an account
of Peter. It further solidifies my claim
that none of Jesus' account was written
when that guy was alive. The first gospel
was written because Mark was an inte-
rpreter of Peter. Peter had already died
when Mark wrote the first gospel.

Mark himself didn't know Jesus, he
wrote down what he must have heard
from Peter.

See, I know all these things. I had to
use google immediately you asked
me for proofs. Do you know why? It's
because I didn't find out about all th-
ese facts on the internet. I found out
in some secret books of the Roman
Catholic Church.

And obviously, there is no way I can
refer you to such books.
Please read again and understand.

If the first gospel was written after the
first set of apostles had died, how were
they then able to write down words
for words what Jesus did and said.
There would have been of course lots
of errors because no one has that kinna
memory to remember what someone
said word for word many many years
ago.

That's why there are lots of contradi-
ctions between the gospels and the
letters of paul.

Paul wrote his letters before the first
gospel was written.
Paul himself never read or knew any-
thing about Jesus' life, except from
what he heard from different apostles.

I'm just saying this to help lots of
people who are angry at Jesus
calm down because that's the
truth.
JESUS NEVER LIVED.

U just contradicting yourself and not even making sense.
Jesus lived 1AD to 33AD. Gospel of Mark was written 60AD. Do the maths...how's the difference 50 years?

Peter died 68 AD, the gospel of Mark was already in circulation in the 60s AD.

U claim Jesus never existed, bring proof. Bring evidence that showed clearly that Jesus never existed. We have historical evidence of existence of Jesus.
That there's no archeology trace of someone is not an evidence of his non-existence.

FRANCISTOWN:
I no too dey talk Abeg. Just 2% of my brain is probably more intelligent than all the Christians put together on this forum.

see the second paragraph on this

You don't know anything, yet you kept on arguing. I maintain that that nigga jesus never existed. There are no acheological proofs of his existence.

see here

see here too

The accounts of his
life were written (gasp!) fifty years
after the crucifixion!” And? The
earliest biography of Julius
Caesar was written 175 years
after his death, and the earliest
biography of Alexander the
Great was written 300 years
after his death. That doesn’t
stop historians from producing
remarkably detailed biographies
based on written sources.
“There is no mention of Jesus in
any Roman records from the
period.” That’s because there
are no Roman records from the
period. About anything

You see, read Kenneth Humphreys.
I can't talk too much, your Jesus
never lived. He was just an imaginary
fairy character to amuse children.
That's why prayers don't get answered.
Now provide any archeological facts for
the existence of Jesus. Since you are that
smart.
Mtcheeeew

This francistown is very funny, I asked for evidence of Jesus non existence, he brought us historical evidence of Jesus existence.

did u read those links at all
here.....

But the ancient references to Jesus are not just found in works by Christian authors, an argument that supports the historical authenticity of the character. “Jesus is also mentioned in ancient Jewish and Roman texts,” says McCane. For example, around the year 93, the Pharisee historian Flavius ​​Josephus left in his work Jewish Antiquities at least one indisputable reference to the “brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” Two decades later, the Romans Pliny and Tacitus also wrote about Jesus; the latter explained that the founder of the sect of Christians was executed during the mandate of Emperor Tiberius, when Pontius Pilate was governing in Judea.

Your gospel evidence corroborate my claim. The gospel letters were written in the 1st century. book of Mark was around 50 AD while book of John around 90 AD. Jesus lived 1AD to 33AD which meant the 1st gospel was written within 20 yrs after he lived....
unlike your bogus claim- If Jesus were alive when the first gospel was written, he would be 134 years old.


As I said, u are way beyond your depth on this matter. I'm sure u just started researching this topic after my post, reason for bringing wikipedia as evidence as well as other contradictory articles. And I'm sure u know nothing about apostolic fathers.

I will let u be, but be careful what u post here, some of us will call u out if u found to be intellectually deficient while making bogus claims..

drlateef:
What was not funny. I found you people crazy, denying facts of embryology. I can’t even believe bringing myself so low as to be discussing embryology with nitwits.

You are right on the fact u shouldnt be discussing embryology with anybody in the first place. your purulent stuff is toxic.
anyway I hope u ve brushed up your rusty embryology knowledge because I will be asking u real qur'anic embyology very soon.

23:14. "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood, then of that clot we made a lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; the We developed out of it another creature."

honesttalk21:
COPIED

copied the following information from Wikipedia: ‎

“Descent of the Testes

At an early period of fetal life the testes are placed at the back part of the ‎abdominal cavity. ‎The descent of the testes consists of the opening of a connection from the testis ‎to its final location at the anterior abdominal wall, followed by the development of ‎the gubernaculum, which subsequently pulls and translocates the testis down ‎into the developing scrotum. ‎

Descent of the Ovaries

Just as in the male, there is a gubernaculum in the female, which effects a ‎considerable change in the position of the ovary, though not so extensive a ‎change as in that of the testis.”
In this case the origin of these gonads is from that area in the back of the abdominal cavity between the ribs and the vertebral column (backbone).

Truly, Allah knows best.

Then Allah says, He is created from a water gushing forth which means, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. The backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).
Ibn Kathir Quran 86:6-7

Are u a medical doctor? if not, there's no need wasting my time on this with u.
But I will advise u to be careful about making claims u cant defend.
u can ask drlateef about his own experience, it wasnt funny.

honesttalk21:
SirTee15, interesting arguments you put up however you tend to place emphasis on the wrong end.
[b]If there is any use of it, then they should do it, for it was just a personal opinion of mine, and do not go after my personal opinion;
but when I say to you anything on behalf of Allah, then do accept it, for I do not attribute lie to Allah, the Exalted and Glorious.[color=#006600][/color]


This emphasises that none is perfect but Allah and he Muhammad is also human. Further review shows that he encourages use of intellect and freewill with the caveat of not specifically going against a direct command of Allah.

I ponder where the problem really lies. Truth be told endless debates on issues are often time wasting and hardly productive. Your scholarship is highly commended and at the peak we are driven a little beyond shear logic to the paths we choose.

I wish you well. Thanks.

Let me ask u a simple question,
If Muhammed said the semen is from between the backbone and rib and now we know that knowledge is incorrect.
How does this knowledge of semen affects your practice of islam? How does this anatomy/embryology knowledge influence the practice of your religion? what does it change? how does if affect your worship of Allah?
thank you for your honest answer.

FRANCISTOWN:
The information is available on Google, don't be lazy.
Come back and ask me reasonable questions.
I'm not sitting at you for an interview please

ok, fair enough.
So I searched google and it says the apostolic fathers read the gospel and reference the gospel letters in their own writings.
This destroys your fabricated claim that the gospels were written 100 years after Jesus.
The apostolic fathers were early Christians who personally knew the disciples of Jesus, this confirms they lived in the 1st century just like Jesus.
If they read the gospel, it means the gospel letters were written in the 1st century, same century Jesus lived.

You came here with your loud mouth claiming Jesus never existed and the gospel letters were written a century after he lived. A claim u cant back with any evidence.

I keep saying it, nairaland atheist are the laziest bunch I've ever met, and they never cease to disappoint. I have even retired a few here by forcing them to change their moniker after exposing them as sham.
They come here with bogus claims they cant provide evidence for and are easily debunked. The only thing they can confidently defend is the insult they throw at God. Challenge them intellectually and they shrink like the one above.

If I ask FRANCISTOWN now to provide evidence that Jesus never existed, he will fail miserably. But I will let him be, I dont want to be responsible for his retirement from nairaland.

FRANCISTOWN:
Why wouldn't I know about The Apostolic Fathers? I spent my early years in Catholic.

Ok good.
Now did the apostolic fathers read the gospel letters? Did they make reference to the gospel letters in their own writings?

FRANCISTOWN:
Are you not the same guy who doesn't understand simple english tenses.
I think I remember one dunce like that who couldn't differentiate between tenses. Oh my! Was it you?
No event in the Bible was recorded in a present perfect tense, present tense and present continuous tense. Well you would not even understand, lemme not waste my energy on someone with 14. IQ

I maintain that, none of Jesus' gospel books was written when the imaginary Jesus was said to have lived.

They were all written centuries after, and by the way, Matthew was not the first gospel book.

Let me ask you a question, have u heard of the phrase 'Apostolic fathers'.
Your response will determine if I should continue the conversation with u?

AntiChristian:
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns[diadems].

He has a name written on him that no one but he himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11-16 NIV)

Bashir Lucas Samson

I guess no be Jesus the prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6) and Jesus wey be the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrew 13: be this again?

Jesus is coming back as a warrior to dispense justice. He said so himself. John 5. 26-29.
Jesus said in Matthew 25.31-46 that he will punish evil doers and reward the righteous.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Also read Matthew 24.29-31, Matthew 16.27

Yes Jesus is the prince of peace so long as the world remain, but he's coming back to reward according to each person deeds after which he will establish his own kingdom which will be everlasting.

Your depiction also confirms Jesus as the warrior mentioned in Isaiah 42.13.

What is majuj and yajuj.

Guy truth is u went all out to help her because u interested in her- nothing bad in it, na investment.

U used style contact her regarding your id card- u must have collected her number during your so called selfless service.
Girls are not stupid, immediately u asked for her number, she knew what was coming up and was ready for your next move. A smart guy will read her disinterested body language at that moment and abort mission.

When she didn't send u regarding your id card, an average dude with dignity and self worth will decode and consider the venture a lost investment.

But u went ahead and asked her out despite all the red flags. That's the kind of errors we expect from naive freshers or desperate guys.
Truth is u saw it coming but never bothered to use your sense until it all came crashing down.

1Sharon:
Nah the Muslims gangs bully them into converting, they deny them food or something like that until they convert

1Sharon:
They get converted to Islam in the prisons 😂Same thing happens in America

Ok that makes sense. Ive thinking maybe it's the polygamy that attracts them.

Creeper:
Lol, good you know who you’re talking to. Just because I’m harsh on disrespectful cunts - it doesn’t make me a crack head. I don’t do do drugs. I’m big on respect (that’s how I was raised) and I’ll crack your skull if you disrespect me. It’s called, “principles” - something you can’t grasp because you’re an uncouth monkey.

Funny you cited drugs. I was in Nigeria a couple of years ago (via Ghana) and it’s like almost every guy is on opium (Fentanyl) and Methenamine. That’s a zombie nation and you’re probably one of those clowns. But I don’t care about the type of drugs you’re on - don’t disrespect me unprovoked. It’s simple. Don’t do nothing and you won’t see nothing.

BTW, it’s good you remember me because I haven’t been on here for years. It shows you’re a fan. Twitter brought me back here and it’s still chat shyt and get banged, lol.

Listen monkey, I don’t care about no gangs or what people are doing. I’m too grown to be worried about what the next man is doing.

Islam contributed immensely to modern civilisation and built some of the greatest civilisations in West Africa. Conversely, Christianity is yet to build zilch in West Africa - apart from Churches and noise pollution. That’s what I’m standing on - fcck you and fcck your feelings, lol.

I used to wonder why u so toxic until I relocated and saw first hand what u guys went through.
It's not easy being the only black boy in a class full of whites. Being picked on and bullied all the time by white teachers. So now I understand the emotional trauma, the origin of your ACE- adverse childhood effect.
U just have to let the anger and frustration out one way or another. Drugs, gangs, online rantings, what have u.....
U guys can't just help it.

Creeper:
Lol, how can you even call someone a dullard when your brain matter is gbegiri? You’re the most delusional and mentally deranged idiot I’ve encountered, lol.

And no, you’re the infantile schmuck with a big mouth and Twitter fingers. I guess that’s what they do in Ibadan and expect people to take it on the chin. Too bad it doesn’t work like that. When you insult people unprovoked - there are consequences. Run up on me talking shyt unprovoked and you’ll get punched up.

Listen monkey, I say what the fck I want to say about Christianity and/or anything, when I want to say it and how I want to say it. I’m a freeborn and a blue blood - I make my own rules. If you want to engage me - do it with civility and there won’t be any problems whatsoever.

And you’re yet to answer the simple question I asked you based on the excerpt from my post that made you emotional like a biiitch.

— cite one civilisation built by Christianity in west Africa?

U know what...why do sound like shymexx. The long lost nairaland crack head.
I can bet my right arm u that guy. The rantings, viles, insults, pathological hatred for western ideology, morbid obsession with anything Yoruba.
If indeed you are shymexx, then u ve not changed...all this while. Same toxic venom for more than 10 years.
Walahi, u need help. Real one. U need to have a soul.

I don't believe u Christian anyway so it's ok to join Islam. U already have strong affinity for the religion. So just complete the ritual. U have role model in Andrew Tate and sneako.

Go to Hyde park in London, look for the dawah gang operating in the park every Sunday and say your Shahada. U very much welcome to leave Christianity.

Black British esp Jamaicans seems to be finding succour in Islam for some strange reason but if it will stop them wielding machete and joining gangs, then all well and good.

If uve been with Christianity for more than 20 yrs and not changed one bit even here on nairaland. Then I don't think any Christian will begrudge u leaving the faith.

Creeper:
.

U not making sense.
All I see is juvenile online tantrums..sign of ACE.
Well I think we done here, whether u think Islam did more is your business. But don't come here saying ignorant shit about Christianity.
And verify what u post here....not everyone is a dullard like u.

Creeper:
SirTee15 the Ibadan scoundrel/scrounger is the rapist below your pastor?

I know you certainly felt like Thanos after eating amala. Better check my username properly next time you decide go berserk and unruly - Creeper turns Thanos into a fccking mouse.

Continue barking my name everywhere like a rabid dog. If u stop u no longer creeper as u claim.

This is someone who claim he's not Nigeria, but spent his life on nairaland insulting ibos. 90% of his post is obsession with ibos- insulting and hating on them.
U are a pathetic fellow filled with hatred and bitterness. It's so evident even on this thread, your life must be so boring and sad for u to come here venting your frustration on just one ethnic group.

Creeper:
Lol, you’re a primitive low IQ Ibadan-born gorilla, yet you’re ascribing “Nigerian” to me, lol. That alone shows how mentally deranged and disconnected from reality you’re, with your fried brain cells, you village idiot.

Muppet, I don’t need ChatGPT to tell me what I know - it’s for uneducated and unintelligent cunts like you. I have been to more places on 3 continents in the last 2 years than everyone in your lineage combined, you dirty and poverty stricken bonobo. Stupid monkey.

So, I will ask again: can you cite the civilisation(s) that Christianity built in West Africa?

I don’t care about the rest of your rambling - you’re a self-hating c00n and a monkey. Anyway, you’re lucky it’s the internet - I would’ve slapped the dumbness out of you, lol.

Rambling of a defeated cretin. Nothing more to say than resort to insult.
U are too small for me to waste time on.....

All u these anti Christian apologist, I chew u raw with facts and evidence. U won't be the first n definitely not the last, some even abandoned their username after I knocked their empty brain with facts.

Since u obsessed with animals, take a visit to the zoo n take time to identify your family members. That will help u identify n describe them better.

Continue barking, u are welcome to do so. But when u bring up new evidence, let me know so I can expose u as a fraud again.

Creeper:
Googling and ChatGPT won’t teach you real history - you acquire knowledge by reading far and wide.

see otondo claiming ajala.
As if he's been to any African country in his life. Yet claiming authority in Timbuktu.
Download chat gpt and argue with it. Semi- literate Nigerians are big headache.

Creeper:
The origin of Sufi Islam is still disputed - some claim it’s India, some claim it’s Iraq, some claim it’s Africa. But evidence of Sufi Islam became a thing after Umayyad Caliphate, which the Maghreb/Mauritania was part of. And the original inhabitants of Maghreb/Mauritania were Balfour people - who’re part of the larger Mandinka group that built Ghana empire (not Ghana the country), Mali empire and Songhay empire.

The type of Islam they practiced allowed the mesh of African mysticism and Islam which is what Sufism allows. So, I credit them with it since it’s indigenous to the region. And most people practicing Sufism today are Africans.

Anyway, that’s beside the point and don’t run from my question.

So, I will ask again: can you cite the civilisation(s) that Christianity built in West Africa?

Every student of history is aware of the golden age of Islam in west Africa and the great civilisations/empires it built. Ditto indigenous African religions. Cite the one built by Christianity.

See this one baiting me with strawman argument.
I'm a proud afrocentrist for your info.
So u barking at the wrong tree regarding Christian civilization.
Talk to me about black civilization and I will respond.

Your stinking hypocrisy is what I'm pointing out here...

Christianity didn’t build zilch in West Africa - Islam and indigenous religions ran the show and civilised the people.

Christian missionaries brought u education, introduced western technology, taught u how to read and write in your native language.
They discouraged pagan practice in some areas like canibalism, infanticide and human ritual. Gave twins the chance to live.
They condemned slave trade in west Africa while your so called Islamic civilization encouraged it so long as u not a Muslim.

Yet u had the audacity to claim they did nothing. Something is wrong with that your cone head, it needs panel beating.

Creeper:
Lol, you sound very emotional and I’m sure you were about to cry whilst typing this incoherent rambling. I’m guessing you’re one of these brainwashed and half-baked Bible thumping clowns who are perpetual victims of pulpit pimps who sell “faith and prosperity” whilst robbing your hard earned money. Take heart - it’s a dog eat dog world. Someone has to sell the dreams and the gullible ones who’re foolish enough to buy it would’ve have to get on with it, lol.

You’re not only half-baked - you sound like a functional illiterate with fried brain cells. I shouldn’t even be engaging you because I’m losing brain cells in the act but I’ll do it for the sake of it.

Let’s get back the original post I quoted: the poster claimed Islam has contributed zilch to humanity. And my rebuttal was to basically highlight some of the immense contributions of Islam/Muslims.

However, what got under your skin, as a Bible thumping git, is my claim that Christianity has built zilch in West Africa while Islam and indigenous religions built the greatest civilisations in the same region.

So, if you disagree with that - the onus is on you to list the civilisation(s) Christianity built in West Africa.

Wholesale copy and paste isn’t civilisation - there has to be ingenuity and complexities involved to attain that status. Even the Islamic civilisations in west Africa had a lot of indigenous aspects of it hence the creation of Sufi Islam which is indigenous to West Africa - that’s the element of ingenuity I was alluding to.

Europe copied the Islamic civilisations and added elements of its own to create western civilisation - that’s the ingenuity I’m alluding to.

China copied western civilisation without the religion (unlike Africans) and created a unique system that works for China - that’s the ingenuity I’m alluding to.

Brainwashed and braindead Bible thumping African gorillas like you got flogged into accepting Christianity and lost your sense of reasoning whilst becoming a slave to a religion that enslaved you. And no matter how you twist it - Christianity is yet to build a civilisation in West Africa. But it did build gazillion of Churches for clowns like you to part ways with your money - to pulpit pimps, in exchange for faith while dickeating white people. Too bad, it lacks the requisite ingenuity associated with civilisation, lol.

If a pastor swindled u of your money, pls sort it out with him or involve the police. Dont put your frustration on me, I'm not responsible for your stupidity, because I don't see why you all over the place lamenting about churches or pastors.

U very shallow, debating with u is waste of time. Go and read about civilisation, culture and religious dynamism.
Your statement on Sufi Islam confirms u just confabulating based on your ignorance.
Let's ask chat gpt about Sufi Islam.

Sufi Islam is not indigenous to West Africa in the sense that it did not originate there. Sufism is a mystical and spiritual dimension of Islam that emerged in the 8th century in the Middle East, specifically in what is now Iraq.

Now thank me for curing your ignorance, at least u won't repeat such again.

Meanwhile continue hoping on Jesus Christ to build black first successful civilisation while u continue to elect useless leaders.
The bible has a word for u

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan.
Proverb 29.2

Creeper:
What do you mean by “they gave you”? And learn how to be civil when quoting me - the use of “crass ignorance” is inappropriate and disrespectful.

A form of ‘civilisation’ that makes you dependent on a bigger civilisation is more of a client state than a real civilisation. There’s no ingenuity and complexity associated with the term “civilisation”, in copying - it has to come from within and modern African states lack that.

Conversely, medieval west African states had it in abundance with Islam and traditional religions and they were able to build some of the most advanced states without outside interference.

You referred to someone as 'idiotic lie' because she said Islam has contributed nothing to humanity. But started foaming in the mouth when u were caught out writing nonsense about Christianity.
You not only ignorant but a big hypocrite, that's why u speaking from both sides of the mouth.

Go and learn about civilisation before u start displaying your ignorance again.

Which is civilisation is ever independent, are u not the one here saying Europeans civilisation copied from Persians and Arab.
And which Timbuktu civilisation was independent? Tell me about the so called ingenuity.
Was it the madrass, the university, libraries, scholars?
Was the medicine or chemistry they taught different from the ones in Baghdad university?.
How many of their Islamic scholars teachings on Islamic jurisprudence was eventually adopted into mainstream Islamic hadiths.

Modern technology is based on Western civilisation. Embrace it and make the best use out of it. The Chinese who are likely to become the next goal superpower did not invent any new civilisation or returned to their old ming dynasty civilization.
The penetrated the western civilization, got what they want out of it and left out the rubbish.
We should do the same in Africa. The problem with blacks is we overrepresenting in the bad things with western culture and absolutely non existent in the positive aspect.

Creeper:
What are you rambling about? And can’t you see that I cited “Trans-Saharan Slavery” in my post? Or perhaps you want me to explain “Trans-Saharan Slavery” to you since it seems you can’t grasp what it entails?

I don’t care about whatever fetish they have since the same is applicable to Christians, especially OG Christianity, which is the Catholic Church. The priests are still molesting kids (which is a tradition to them) and homosexuality is cultural to them.

Anyway, that’s off-point. You claimed Islam hasn’t contributed anything to humanity (which is an idiotic lie) and I just wanted to refute the claim. Islam arguably contributed more to modern civilisation than Christianity since Muslims were the catalyst for European renaissance. Without them - Europe would still be stuck in the dark ages.

A lot of you need to get your heads out of your arses and stop letting hate becloud your sense of reasoning. You can’t acquire knowledge with hate in your heart. You probably need stop focusing solely on Arabs when it comes to Islam and perhaps also look at Persians since they’re also Muslims. And no one can deny their immense contributions to the modern world.

Also, some of the greatest civilisations in West Africa were Muslim civilisations. Christianity didn’t build zilch in West Africa - Islam and indigenous religions ran the show and civilised the people.

BTW, I’m not a Muslim.

To say Christianity didn't build zilch is crass ignorance from your side. Christianity gave Africans the chance to embrace western education, the bedrock of modern technology.
They gave u education, written language and in some areas- humanity and civilisation.
Anywhere Christianity step foot in Africa, they build church and schools simultaneously. The so called ajami script wasn't widespread and most African languages were unwritten until christian linguistics started developing Latinised alphabets for African languages.
Yes Islamic civilization was impressive in west Africa but had disappeared by the turn of the 19th century. The Timbuktu legacy was already dead and explorers who visited the town in the 18th and 19th century were shocked to find a desolate village with nothing to show for its past.

STRI1:
Whatever you call it disprove the fact that it's the fastest growing religion on earth with over 2 billion population

What's my business with your numbers, as if that's something to cheer about.
Whites are the smallest ethnic group in the world yet the most powerful and influential force in our world.
What has your population brought to the world If not sorrow, tears and blood shedding wherever it goes.
Look at Nigeria, Muslim are in the majority yet the most backward, violent and primitive. Least likely to contribute towards the positivity of Nigeria.
Buhari brough his fanatical Islamic ideology to the centre and Nigeria became a disaster.

When I was in medical school, 90% of the medical students were Christians, 99% of our consultants were Christians in a state that's 50.50 Muslim-christian.
U will never see Muslims where it matters, it always useless things like breeding like rats.

STRI1:
Didirin see this

There are 57 members of organization of Islamic Countries including Nigeria. Your best option is to drink sniper. Because Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth

You ve said nothing. All these are evidence of invasion in the name of immigration.
Why don't u show us the black and Indian population in Europe and America within same time frame so u could see your folly.

STRI1:
Then, Muslims living around you must have killed you by now. Funny thing is Islam today is the fastest growing religion on earth. You hate has changed NOTHING.

By breeding like rats....

gawu1:
Just thank European colonization. There are many historical facts showing that without the European intervention, the boundary of Islam around the niger area was the Atlantic ocean.
Many European scholars have given reasons why Europe decided to ventured into Africa especially at the turned of 15thC, AD. And the most common motives supported by undisputable facts and evidence in most of these write up for their incursion into Africa were that they wanted to first stop expansion of Islamic civilization in the continent and secondly, to expand their economy base.

Produce evidence. The incursion of Islamic caliphate into Yorubaland ended in 1840 in Oshogbo.

Fisiryorh:
Alaye, Jesus is not God..

Jesus always made reference to His Father in all situations..

My father has many mansions...

My father, My father. Why have thou forsaken me...

During his baptism, a voice came down from heaven saying "this is my son, in whom I am well pleased"...

Jesus, at no point ever claimed divinity neither did he say nor the bible say he is God..

If Jesus is not God explain John 14.14
If Jesus is not God explain Matthew 9.1-8
If Jesus is not God explain Rev 22.13 and Isaiah 44.6