₦airaland Forum

Maynman:
It was herod Agrippa ll.

Read!

In Antioch? That's my question. Did he call Jesus followers Christian in Antioch?

Maynman:
Who was the person that used it to describe followers of jesus?

Definitely not Herod, read the sentence properly. U can ask jaephoenix for help.

Maynman:
It’s right.
Point the evidence out

Herod couldn't have been the first to call Jesus followers Christians. He doesn't live in Antioch.

I'm talking about your Wikipedia evidence that talked about Herod aggripa

Maynman:
He didn’t finally admit again according to what you said earlier?

This is the one I want to share.

In his book "Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)," Ehrman writes:

"Despite the differences in detail and perspective among the Gospel accounts, the core message of Jesus and his followers remains constant: God's kingdom is at hand, and people need to repent and prepare for its coming."

Maynman:
Ask chatgpt about israelite god, yahweh and his wife, Asheerah.
It will fasten the education.

But have we settled the matter on the identity of early Christians or u want to argue with artificial intelligence.

damosky12:
We can call the bluff of the pettiness.

But African lecturers, particularly Nigerian lecturers, are one of the best. Lecturers from Africa are some of the best brains in the very best universities in the world...

Where is the evidence for your claim

Maynman:
Agrippa ll was the one that referred to NAZARENE as christians first in antioch.

This statement is wrong, very wrong. U may want to correct yourself.
Even your evidence says you wrong.

jaephoenix:
Nice dodging technique. But what else do u expect from dumb ignorant chrissies.
Ok, when you apologize to me first, then I'll reciprocate. If u don't, then consider this our parting words, you quack. Next time chose who you cross swords with.
Lemme sit back and watch as Maynmann continue to school you on your own book.
Ciao

Damage control after u've been bruised and battered till u became confused.
Why did u misquote TenQ. If I may ask? Did our username looked similar to u or we were troubling your life so much u made us one.
Anyway, let's find a way to close the case.
Do u know u admit that my index case is a metastatic fungating cervical cancer stage 4 WITHOUT TREATMENT. as clearly stated here by myself.
Besides the case u posted here as evidence is stage 3.

Maynman:
I already gave you the evidence. Who is serapis, start from there.

Antioch Now known as present day turkey.

Argue Nazarene about what?
What exactly is the arguement on nazarene?
You are the confused one.

I asked chatgpt if Serapis were ever called Christians.
Here is the response:

Were Serapis ever called Christians

No, Serapis was not called Christians. Serapis was a syncretic deity created by Ptolemy I of Egypt in the 3rd century BCE by combining elements of Greek and Egyptian religion. Serapis was associated with the underworld and the afterlife and was often depicted as a bearded man wearing a modius (a type of Egyptian headdress).

Christianity, on the other hand, emerged several centuries later in the 1st century CE in the Roman province of Judea. The term "Christian" was first used to describe the followers of Jesus Christ in the city of Antioch in the early years of the movement, as recorded in the New Testament book of Acts.

While there were many different religious and cultural influences present in the Roman Empire during this time, including the syncretic religion of Serapis, there is no evidence to suggest that early Christians were ever associated with this deity or called by this name.

So if Herod lived in Judea, how was he able to travel to Antioch in far away turkey looking for those to call Christians..

Maynman:
Send a link to where he finally admitted.

Bart Erhman didn't finally admit, he was consistent in his writings that the core message was the same in all manuscripts.
Note, he didn't say it was accurate or true but that the core gospel message was stable in all manuscripts over the years. These has been the central theme in all his works. Get his books,
misquoting jesus,
Jesus interrupted,
triumph of Christianity.
Not sure if there are free pdf.

This is an except from misquoting Jesus, conclusion chapter.

To be sure, of all the hundreds of thousands of textual changes found among our manuscripts, most of them are completely insignificant, immaterial, of no real importance for anything other than showing that scribes could not spell or keep focused any better than the rest of us'
Bert Erhman.

In Jesus interrupted, chapter 2 of the book, titled "The Historical Jesus: What We Can Know and How We Know It," Ehrman writes:

"At the heart of Jesus' message was an announcement that God's kingdom was soon to arrive on earth. This was a time of cosmic crisis, when God was going to intervene in history to overthrow the forces of evil and establish a new order of righteousness and justice. In order to prepare for this coming of God's kingdom, people needed to repent of their sins, turn to God, and live a life of holiness and devotion."

jaephoenix:
Just like you ran away from our argument when you've been caught out

I will make it easy for u. Apologise to TenQ for calling him a liar. That was a mistake, u shouldn't have a problem apologising to him. Mention him and apologize.
But that we will continue that conversation without apology is a BIG NO.
Tag me when u done with the apology. My holiday is over, so can't keep up like b4.

overseasnbeyond:
Its because you lack experience of what is going on.
For your information:
1. I travelled to any part of the country i wish to atleast 4 every year including Nigeria
2. I have one of the best job cashing in $120,000 + in W2
3. I just got approval for my own company by state government yesterday.
There is no place like Nigeria.

Except u have a steady income that can fetch u 1 million per month in naija, relocating home is a stupid decision.
To maintain the quality of life u used to in the USA is expensive in naija. I'm not even talking of living in lekki or banana island.
Just a decent good quality of life. Services u take for granted in USA, getting them here in naija will sap your money and strength.
For your savings to go a long way, u will have to live like a lower middle class in naija.

For example, u can't send your kid to a private school that offers same quality of education in USA - we talking of millions of naira per term. U will end up with those 75 thousand manageable schools.
New car is out of it completely, welcome back to tokunbo.
Make sure u build a house b4 coming, they are cheaper here.
Make sure u healthy b4 coming back, don't even think of it if u battling one ailment.
U will have to invest heavily in quality internet service to be able to enjoy similar quality here in naija and it's not cheap- likely 35-50k per month.
If u not prepared all those nostalgia of family and friends will disappear within a year of coming back and u won't have a choice than to run back. Even dem no go send once dollar finish...olowo laye mo.
A lot of abroad returnee who all came back to promote Africa on YouTube all ran back when dollar finished and YouTube no pay as they had hoped.
Africa still has a long way to go regarding economic opportunity.

Best bet is do what lots of Nigerians in UK are beginning to do. Have a steady income generating business in naija, come around regularly to monitor things- like spend 4-6 months in naija, then return to UK to reload. That's what most low income earner in UK do nowadays to sustain their life in both sides of the world.

Maynman:
Send me a link to when bart finally admitted, still waiting.

While Ehrman has highlighted the existence of variations in the New Testament manuscripts, he has also acknowledged that the core message of the gospel remains consistent across the vast majority of manuscripts. In his book "The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture," Ehrman writes that "the message of the New Testament is virtually the same today as it was when it was first written" (p. Eight).

Ehrman has also noted that the overwhelming majority of textual variants are relatively minor, and do not substantially affect the meaning or message of the text. In an interview with the website Patheos, Ehrman stated that "most of the changes are completely insignificant, immaterial, they don’t matter for anything" and that "the vast majority of the New Testament is not in doubt because of the textual variants" (source: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2014/09/a-conversation-with-bart-ehrman-part-1-the-text-of-the-new-testament

Maynman:
So how does this strawmann argument relate to out discussion?
You don’t know what “Christian” means?
What’s there to debate about “nazarene”
This is basic to understand, before jesus followers were called christian at Antioch they called themselves NAZARENES.
So if you want to talk about early jesus followers you start from NAZARENE.

Followers of serapis were called christian before 1st century.
Agrippa ll was the one that referred to NAZARENE as christians first in antioch.

Jewish people can’t call themselves from a greek name.
Christian comes from greek term, and not to forget all the gospel were written decades after jesus died.

Followers of serapis were called christian before 1st century.
Produce evidence.

Agrippa ll was the one that referred to NAZARENE as christians first in antioch.
If I ask u for evidence for this now, u will still fail. But I won't bother myself because u gave answer to something I never asked u. U keep making claims u can't defend, digging yourself into deeper pit.
Herod is king of which region? Antioch is in which region? So Agrippa will leave his seat in Caesarea Judea and be looking for who to call Christians in far away turkey. U see why it doesn't make sense

Pls go and look for the person arguing Nazarene with u. It's definitely not me. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Maynman:
Do you really know what strawmann argument means, and how does it relate to our discussion.
Jesus early followers were called Nazarene, Paul was their leader. How is that debate lol
Nazarene is a sect, a gnostic sect.

You are the confused one, this is what said "Like you posted in 68AD, what century were they called “Christian” in antioch, how does it relate to the jargons you just said?

This is the definition of strawman argument
A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction
My issue with u is all about the word Christians. U raised Nazarene and I was hoping u will let it be since I never debated it with u, but u kept bringing it up again and again.
I'm not interested in Nazarene, I'm interested in Christians. Don't debate Nazarene with me.

1. Mention any Christian sect referred to as pagans in the 1st century. Produce evidence- pls note 1st century.

2. When Herod mentioned the word Christian, who was he referring to? Pagans or followers of Jesus. If it's the former, produce evidence.

3. When did Jesus followers start bearing Christians and was their any sect or group of pagans bearing the name before them?


U wrote this
Like you posted in 68AD, what century were they called “Christian” in antioch.
The way u constructed the sentence made it look like a question.

Maynman:
They were first called a christian in antioch, why didn’t they call themselves “Christians” among themselves?
They had to wait for an outsider to call them?
paul was known as a nazarene according to acts 24:5
We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect


Early Christians were known as Nazarene.
Like you posted in 68AD, what century were they called “Christian” in antioch.

U've lost it. I don't know why u bringing up a strawman argument. Did I ever debate Paul being called Nazarene or not.
They were called Christians in the 1st century AD. 1st century is 1AD to 99AD. You getting confused and disoriented for u to be struggling with times and calender. Abi what century is 68AD, what century did Paul and the disciples existed.
GO AND SLEEP B4 YOU MISQUOTE SOMEBODY ELSE.

Maynman:
Think na.
Mark is the earliest gospel to be written, john was written Much much later, all the authors of gospels are UNKNOWN, other gospels used the earliest gospel, mark to write their books.
Which evidences again
None of the authors were eyewitnesses yet they knew even private conversations, divinely inspired abi

Christians from christ, what does “christ” mean?
“Christian” even goes beyond first century 1AD.

Look up on the followers of serapsis.

You said paul was known as a Christian in Act, no he wasn’t, he was known as a nazarene and their group leader, that’s what i said, never said you argued.

You are basing your life on Roman Propaganda worshipping Iesus chrestus that’s why jews reject this greek messiah

Paul was called a Christian. Acts 11
25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.


This is from the the Wikipedia u selectively quoted.

In 68 AD, a mob of pagans is said to have formed at the Serapis Temple in Alexandria, who then descended on the Christians who were celebrating Easter at Baucalis. There, they sized St. Mark, dragging him through the streets, before throwing him in prison. Clearly those worshippers of Serapis and Christ were aware of each other and the differences within their religions, though perhaps at a later date, some amongst the worshippers of either may have chosen to cover all of their options.

On the other hand, some have pointed out that Chrestus (Christus) was another name for the Egyptian god, Serapis. Chrestus may be translated as "Messiah", though the term need not apply to any specific Messiah, such as Jesus. It therefore could have simply been applied to "Lord Serapis", so that in fact, there was never any connection at all between the early Christians and the worshippers of Serapis

My questions

1. Mention any Christian sect referred to as pagans in the 1st century. Produce evidence- pls note 1st century.

2. When Herod mentioned the word Christian, who was he referring to? Pagans or followers of Jesus. If it's the former, produce evidence.

Maynman:
“ I won't argue with u anymore. It's either u produce evidence or your claim is rejected.
You failed to bring any evidence Bart admitted anything, thus your claim is rejected.”

I already gave u the evidence, check previous post.
U said something like it's vague or something....

Maynman:
The author of john is anonymous, he copied mark and other gospel to write his work.
Do you think the unknown authors of john or mark were alive when jesus supposedly lived?
Mark is the first gospel to be written, other gospels used mark work to write their book, this is easy to understand if not for indoctrination.

Please look up on who are the followers of serapis.
This is what i said about paganism, read slowly, “There were people who are called christians that are pagan, agrippa ll was calling “paul” Christian as an INSULT.“

You don’t know what “Christian” means, paul was known as a nazarene according to acts 24:5
We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect

You forgot to quote mark 11:26

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they aassembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called CHRISTIANS first in cAntioch.

Theist will do anything to defend their deity.

I won't argue with u anymore. It's either u produce evidence or your claim is rejected.
You failed to bring any evidence John copied mark, thus your claim is rejected.

Who are these people who are called Christians that are pagans. Christians came from the word Christ-like and were first called such in Antioch acts 11.
Produce the evidence of any Christian sect called pagans in the 1st century AD.

Serapis... Seriously, undo t want to go there.....

I never argued about Nazarene or whether paul wasnt called Nazarene. This is a red herring

The question is who were called Christians when Herod Agrippa mentioned the word Christian in acts 26.
Answer the question?

Maynman:
John gospel copied mark, do you think john gospel was written by john?
All the gospels were written anonymous.
50Ad came before 90Ad.
There were people who are called christians that are pagan, agrippa ll was calling “paul” Christian as an INSULT.

It’s you that don’t understand what you are saying.

Produce the evidence the author of John gospel copied mark.

I'm not here to argue the authors of the gospel books.

Produce evidence of this so called Christians who were pagans.

Paul was already known as a Christian in acts 11. He stood before Herod Agrippa preaching the gospel and Jesus Christ. Herod Agrippa now asked him if he hope he could make him a Christian.

This was Paul's response

Acts 26
27 king Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know you do.”

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

29 Paul replied, “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.”

So how this conversation connotes paganism is beyond me. Atheist will do anything to win an argument.

Maynman:
Mark is the first gospel,the other gospels copied mark that’s what I said.

If the gospel were written at a later date then who wrote it?
Do you know the difference between 90AD and 50AD?
The people that wrote it were not even alive when Iesus chrestus lived.
All the gospel were written by UNKNOWN AUTHORS, which audience?

The word “christian” already existed before agrippa ll used it, and they were pagans.

No mark didn’t mention jesus appearance in Galilee, he said “ But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee”

And I'm telling u John gospel did not copy mark. Drop it.
Which came first 50AD or 90AD. so if Herod already mentioned Christians in 50AD, what gave u impression there were no Christians 20 or 40 years later when author of mark wrote to the Christian gentiles.
So what does herod meant when he asked Paul if he wanted him to become a Christian. Was Paul a pagan.

U people just like to argue up and down without any foundation or direction. That's why u guys get easily confused.

AntiChristian:
In Hebrew, Joshua is spelled יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yehoshua) and Jesus is spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua). Although these two names are similar, they have different meanings.

The name Joshua (Yehoshua) means "God is salvation" or "Yahweh is salvation." This name is a combination of Yahweh, the Hebrew name for God, and the Hebrew verb yasha, which means "to save" or "to deliver." In the Old Testament, Joshua was the successor of Moses and led the Israelites into the Promised Land.

The name Jesus (Yeshua) also means "salvation," but it has a slightly different origin. It is derived from the Hebrew verb yasha, just like Joshua, but it is combined with the Hebrew word yehi, which means "may there be" or "let there be." So the name Jesus means "may there be salvation" or "let there be salvation."

Bye o!
Association of hypocritical liars!

I'm still waiting for evidence to back this your claim.

Maynman:
When was John written by an unknown author?
John was written much later and steals the basic story from the other gospels but goes completely off the rails from the traditional story. No virgin birth.

Also in the original mark, He has no account of the virgin birth of Jesus–or for that matter, any birth of Jesus at all. In fact, Joseph, husband of Mary, is never named in Mark’s Gospel at all–and Jesus is called a “son of Mary,”

Did jesus appear in Galilee as told in the other forged text?

What century was mark writing to the “Christian gentile”?
There were no christians to differentiate during mattew and john time, remember y’all were first called christian in antioch.

Initially u said John copied mark, now it's become John copied other gospels. Which gospel? Say it, I want to know.
john was written around 90AD.
John also didn't mention the virgin birth...so how does it change anything. I told u the audience were different. Each person wrote what's relevant to his intended audience.
Tell me the year they were first called Christians in Antioch. Bearing in mind Herod Agrippa mentioned the word Christian when talking to Paul in acts 26 and he ruled in the 50s AD.
Meanwhile the gospels were written at a later date.

What are u on about Jesus appearance in Galilee. Did I say mark mentioned Jesus appearance in Galilee post ressurection. Why do u guys love to create argument that was never debated in the first place.
Mark didn't say a lot about Jesus post ressurection appearance because it didn't matter to his target audience.

Maynman:
Mark is the first gospel to be written and other 3 gospels use mark to write their own gospels,authors of all the gospel are unknown of course.

Read to know what was added.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/new-testament/the-strange-ending-of-the-gospel-of-mark-and-why-it-makes-all-the-difference/

Have u read the gospel of John. Does the book looks like it copied mark with regards to christology, content or structure.

What was added was all about the appearance of Jesus after resurrection.
Mark 16. 6-7 already confirmed Jesus had risen, and in Mark 14.28 Jesus already confirmed he will resurrect and appear in Galilee.
So the book of Mark is complete even without the added manuscript- it only affirms what's already in Mark in earlier chapters.
The author of mark was writing to the Christian gentiles who had no doubt or suspicion about the resurrection and ascension of Jesus.
The gentiles wanted to know about the life of jesus, his ministry and his teaching before his death. That was the information eluding them and the reason Mark was writing to them.

This is unlike Matthew who wrote to Jewish Christians and Luke who had a larger audience of different background. In the later two, they both had to emphasise the appearance of Jesus and witnesses to Jesus' ressurection to the doubting Jews. Mark had no such issues.

Maynman:
how can they find a corpse of someone that didn’t exist and only exist in a book.
Where is the corpse of iron man?

Why would Roman soldiers guard dead criminals tomb?
Who even told you criminal are been giving befitting burial to the extent of having a private tomb?
Stop believing fairy tales

So what's the problem with mark's ending. What was missing and what was added.

jaephoenix:
If I was dishonest, would I post the link to you ? Don't you think I'll be shortchanging myself?
Are you seeing how religion has made you lose logical reasoning?

u know u confused, u may think I wont read it or miss it. Or I wont pick on it.
just like the new links u sent today which I will talk about once u apologize.

jaephoenix:
Do you lack comprehension skills. The patient had SR. But they did surgery. My mum had breast cancer. Did chemo till no lumps were palpable. Chest xray and CT showed no lesions yet they onco advised a mastectomy which I agreed. Mitotic cells can cause a relapse later
They way you argue shows you dont even have medical knowledge and youre here running your mouth

Why didn't you post the full statement. Why did u delete the last sentence about surgery.
If it's irrelevant as u claim, why did u delete it and not post it here.
That's why I accused u of dishonesty. U knew what u were doing. U were caught and now doing window dressing.
Only for u to come back and referred to me as a liar even though u didn't even know who u were speaking to.
Apologise and we will conclude on the matter. It takes a lot of humility for a man to admit his mistake and correct it. I will definitely respect that.
Except u want to tell me u have been destined not to apologise no matter what.

RightChannel:
Can you quote a chapter and verse for us from injeel where Ahmad's name was mentioned

He will come and tell u the injeel is lost. Bunch of liars.

AntiChristian:
You always do this weird generalization which is stoopid! Ahmad was actually mentioned in the Injeel, and your Bible is not Injeel!
You are the destructive generaliser!
Hypocrite!

If I take u on injeel, u will demand refund from your imams for scamming u.
Anyway, if injeel is not the bible then what is injeel.
Is it a book, if yes where is it now.
What's the meaning of injeel, what's the origin of the word. Is it Arabic or Greek or Aramaic or Latin or Hebrew.
Besides, the issue in the video is about Muhammed in the Torah.
Was Muhammed mentioned in the Torah?

Sheunma:
I see. You should know that what's fable to you is faith to someone else.
To Muslims, the Quran is word of Allah in its entirety and whatever you read therein is eternal truth regardless of your feelings about it. Same way you accept the divinity of Jesus without question, Muslims accepts the words of Allah without question as well.

So you see, when it comes to religion, there's a thin line between fables and faith because what's fable to you in Christianity is faith to Muslims in Islam and vice versa.

U not making sense at all.
Jesus came crucified and died. Yes all this are possible and verifiable. That he's God is a matter of faith that has no bearing with the physical world.
The question is can a dead person lean on a stick for a year and nobody noticed he was dead?

Maynman:
What do you mean your “own definition of Omniscience”?
Did you create the word? Do you know how foolish that sounds?
Are you texting me in “biblical English”?


https://ehrmanblog.org/how-many-books-in-the-new-testament-were-forged/

Ok, if u are a honest person, u will thank me for linking u up with Bart Erhman.
Now what I want u to do is study his works and how he critic the bible. U can learn one or two things bocs it's like u stuck without Oxford dictionary. Seems that's the only weapon u have.
I'm not brothered about his works. Other bible scholars have debunked majority of it.
Bart himself admits the honesty and sincerity of the apostolic fathers.

Maynman:
Do you know dumb it is to say you have own definition of words. Why are you cherrypicking which words you choose to follow their correct meaning?

If your god knows the future he knows who is a prostitute and Murderer in the future before he even created them.

This is your fellow yahweh worshipper that knows what “omniscience” means.

Are u done researching Bart Erhman?
I'm not queentoast, why bring her here.
I already gave u my definition of omniscience.