₦airaland Forum

Maynman:
There’s no debate, you said celestial beings don’t have a choice or freewill earlier, you don change mouth?

Madam or sir, I don't want to talk to u today. I will like to engage someone else. We already know each others mindset over Christian theology no need for repetition.
I have a life outside of nairaland and I can't keep up debating multiple people here with my other schedules.

Lukuluku69:
Lol

Only 350,000? Too bad then. Then get busy because the Population of Jews Worldwide is put at #30,000,000+

So, get off Nairaland and get busy convincing those Reprobates.

And Good Luck. You will need it

Can u tell us how many Christians admit Muhammad is a prophet.

Islam is forever stuck with Christianity, there's nothing u can do about it but we will forever reject Islam, Allah and Muhammad as fake.

A so called prophet without a revelation to his name.
No miracle, no prophesy, no witness. The only chain of narration in Islam is Muhammad only.
Nobody can verify if he actually saw an angel or not. No independent witness to the existence of this Allah even up to this day.
No wonder his followers can't boast of a single miraculous work in the last 1600 yrs since the advent of Islam. None whatsoever.
God started his creation on earth with a miracle. He spoke and there was light, and God saw it was good. But a Muslims will tell u miracle is bad and not needed in religion.

The only boast in Islam is that Muhammad's enemies bite the dust, therefore he's from God. See reasoning, u go fear.
Guess what, Alexander the Great enemies also bite the dust, so also Genghis khan's. But they were honest to restrict their ambition to territorial and political ambition and not create a religion out of them.
But Muhammad's greed won't tell him where to stop. He has to convinced his followers to use violence to spread the religion because God approved it. That's why the only potent weapon that helps spread and enforce the real Islam is violence.

richmond500:
God can destroy both the body and the soul. Mortal and immortal

Destruction is different from death. The op asked about death.

Maynman:
Do celestial beings have a choice and freewill?
If no, how did satan rebel?

I will like to debate someone else today. ok?

Maynman:
If something can be created surely it can be destroyed.

Ok.

richmond500:
I mean, God first destroyed the world with water, then sacrificed his only son, now on the last days, we will all have to witness Armageddon, and then some of us will be thrown into hell.

All because of Satan

Death is for mortal beings. Satan is not mortal.

jaephoenix:
I know all that. So why didn't god smite him?

Why didn't God smite Abraham, Sarah, Moses and the elders when they saw him?

DesChyko:
Your question is ultimately useless in the end, like that of the former anti-washing machine fellows simply because they can't afford it yet.

You not making any sense. That u can't answer my question shows your blue tick is useless.
And comparing the value washing machine to blue tick depicts u as very shallow. It's a waste of time debating with u.

Lukuluku69:
There Dozens of references to Prophet Muhammad in the Bible, the Vedas and many other Scriptures of the World. Of cos I can detail them for you and what it will elicit from your end is the same reaction you get from Jews when you Christians try to tell the News that your Jesus was also mentioned in the old Testament. So, sometimes you just let it things be. Pesin wey wan blind go be blind even with thousands of eyeballs fixed on every part of their body!

Of cos I know Musalima the Liar during the time of the Prophet. He met with Death for his Lies against God.

Funny thing is the Jews considered your Jesus a False Prophet too back then and they still do. Does that make him a False one? So, if you considered Prophet Muhammad a false one too, you are just like your Jewish Reprobates whom you follow and worship alongside Yahweh and his son.

Even if I listed the references out, just like you have been doing to the Jews, he who want to be blind will be blind just as you

As at 2023, 350,000 Jews call Jesus the Messiah, Son of God and worship him. So your claim Jews rejected Jesus is false.
However, Not one single Christian or Jew believe Muhammad is a prophet. Not one and there will never be one.

DesChyko:
Same excuses were said by some people about blenders and washing machine when grinding stone and hands exist; until they could afford it.

Answer my question without deviating. What value does blue tick add to my life?

Lukuluku69:
By Allah I never heard of the guy until his issues. That said, the guy gained came via the Media. I did my research on him and it was not as if he was a Scholar of Islam. He was just living off the Media. Those kind of people don't attract my attention really but kids of nowadays. So, I never heard of him. Never.

And LYING TO ABOUND THE GLORY OF GOD is a Christian thing. Started by Paul and honed over Centuries by Testimonies (Read TESTIMOLIES) We all know the LIES built into your Testimonies. From Pastor this woman cannot walk since 23AD but when she got here she started walking. This Child was Born Deaf and Blind but he mentioned Jesus and the guy start to dey speak Queens English. We all know. Yet, the Pacelli School of the Blind is there no one pay them any visits. Go to Morgues and see people crying over dead relatives, both hound and old, your Pastors that can heal and wake the dead won't go their to abound God's glory but where Dem go do Offerings and pledges, Dem go full there

As I challenged that atheist in the other thread and he ran away. I will challenge u to tell me of any miracle you ve ever witnessed in your life. Like a miraculous event that defies any logical or scientific explanation.
In my work in the medical field, I ve seen miraculous healing both on Nigeria and oversea.
Miracles ain't for everybody. Jesus didn't open the eyes of all the blind in Judea otherwise there will be none left for Peter to open their eyes in the act of apostles.
I understand miracles is no big deal to u guys in Islam because Muhammad never did a miracle. They had to wait 200 yrs after his death to start fabricating miracles for him.

Lukuluku69:
For you to know that Islam answers Basic, Logical queries about our everyday realities, do an internet search on the Numbers of Converts worldwide.

Those that come to Christianity do it because they hear voices in their head, looking for "Fruits" of the wombs, marriages, finances etc.

The more reason why Africa is teeming with them. Go to the Western World and verify.

I don't have to ask you a mortal like me questions about something you obviously don't have any clue about. Why ask you? Na who you be? Jesus Assistant?

Actually there are more more people converting from Islam to Christianity than Christianity to Islam.
Above is according to pew research.
The problem is people who have never been to the door of a church since they were christened will join Islam and start claiming they left Christianity.
Which Christianity? Some of them couldn't even say the Lord's prayer.

The reason why Islam is appealing in the western world is multifactorial.
1. Christianity is dying in the west and compromising to a ridiculous extent. Immigrants churches that are suppose to fill the void are too clannish and doesn't appeal to the indigenes.
Westerners who desire spirituality will gravitate to the next religion available which is Islam.

2. Westerners are adventurous in nature, that's who they are. They love to explore new and novel things. There's nothing new about Christianity. It's been with them for thousands of years.
They are curious about this strange religion called Islam. Well they say curiosity killed the cat but even we blacks have benefited from this curiosity.
For those who don't know the segregation law against blacks in the west was centred around protecting the white woman from the 'dangerous' black man.
Most case of lynching of blacks and destruction of black properties by whites always start with the rallying cry 'a black man has assaulted a white woman'. The next thing is a white mob attack in black neighborhood.
Yet today the commonest interracial marriage in the world is between the black man and the white woman. The white women were curious to know about this dangerous black man.
I strongly believe if ifa religion is repackaged, modernised and reintroduced with a strong global appeal. The biggest converts will be westerners and not Yorubas.

3. Muslim offers a strong community that other religion lacks. This may not be a big deal in the most cultures where community is everything irrespective of religion but it's a big deal in the west where individualism is the norm.
Vulnerable people who need support will find Islam as a choice. Most converts don't even understand the religion itself but that community support and protection it gives is a big deal esp to those with personality problems.

4. Now this is the most important. Islam in the west is a watered down version of real islam. Muslims in the west don't practice islam, instead they exercise their right to freedom of religious expression as it suits them. What this means is they are very selective in what they practice. That right is protected and enforced by western law.
Islam in the west offer the goodies in it without burdening u with the bitterness experienced by Muslims in other parts of the world, the toxic and extreme form of Islam which is the true Islam dare not rear it's head in the west. Unfortunately this make islam look good in the west.

Hezzyluv:
Oga shortup

You speak like someone who's brain is beneath his foots.

Almost everything u're using today ranging from Cars, gadgets, clothes, perfumes, Houses etc, is more of making rich men richer.

How much be 8or9dollars Compare to the latest phone you used to typed this

What value does blue tick add to your life.
Other products u mentioned are essentials.

Maynman:
Sickness.
A better deal may come in.
Death.

How can you catch an omniscience god unaware that’s what happens when your god knows possible choices but not the exact choice.
And if your god knows your exact choice before you made it that means he made it for you, you’re just under the delusion that it was “choice”, since he knows the future, your “choice” must conform with it.

Sickness is already in your body for a while b4 it manifest as symptoms. Not new.
Better deal that people elsewhere were already discussing b4 u came to know about it.
Death- something caused death. Accidents, illness, natural disasters. These are all effects that has a cause.
These are too basic stuffs for all knowing God.
Goodbye.

Maynman:
If man’s spirit was meant to guide the soul to make right choices, how did man disobey?

Are you saying your omniscience god didn’t know that adam will fall and satan will dominate?
If he knew it was an option why would it make it happen?
Did god also know that his child will eventually be sacrificed?

Why did your god create souls that’s contending with the spirit? and his carnal nature-body who wants him to follow the pleasures of sin.
WHO CREATED MAN WITH ALL THESE?
The person that created you with all these knew exactly how you’ll react to it, why then is he suprise that you are reacting to it?


And your god created perfect beings?
If god created perfect beings then how are his perfect beings easily corrupted?


That’s not what freewill means. If you have to tell me and threaten me with what i have to do with my “freewill” that’s not freewill.
There’s no compulsion but if they don’t worship you you’ll KILL THEM?
That’s emotional blackmail.

The spirit is to guide the soul not control it. The soul has the final say on choice.
The rest are already answered, we going in circles now. Check previous posts.
Goodbye

Maynman:
You’re finding it difficult to defend your omniscience deity.
Plans can change at the last minute, and since your god does not know exactly what will happen, if my plan will change or not, how then does he know your future?

Your god is reacting to my actions after i made it.

If god knows your heart where your decision comes from how then do you have freewill?

Ok
Tell me those factors that will make u change your plans suddenly. Like those last minute emergency factors that make u change your plans quickly.
Let's see if they are plans that can catch God unaware.

Maynman:
Who gave man his evil nature and weaknesses?


Who gave man the soul that’s responsible for the carnality of mankind?
Who created the soul that’s responsible for the carnality of mankind?

If the only correct thing to do is to obey him why did he not create man without the ability to disobey?
Since you can’t use your freewill what then is the use of the freewill?

If using my rights will make you punish me, why then did you give me the right?

God gave man a soul as a marker of choice. However man's spirit was meant to guide the soul so that he always makes the right choice- obedience to God.

Now God gave man a piece of the universe to rule and dominate. It's called earth. Man was meant to be in charge in full obedience to God.

But when man fell, he handed over that dominion to satan and satan corrupted the world with sin.

Now the soul of man has to contend between the spirit who wants him to do right and his carnal nature-body who wants him to follow the pleasures of sin.

That answers all your questions.
The one about why can God make us obey him all the time has already been anwered- check previous posts.

The freewill is not for u to misbehave or serve other gods but to worship and obey God WILLINGLY WITHOUT ANY COMPULSION.

Maynman:
Yes you are starting to see your god doesn’t know all things.
Since your god does not know if I’ll follow him or not how then does he know my exact choice this time next year?

Follow a dummy Israelite god called yahweh to where?
Remember you read about one paul in a forged and edited book.

Why should I embrace christ?

seems to me that your Lord God has merely created man to watch him suffer. This business of Satan, the Garden of Eden and free will is merely a facade. God merely wanted an excuse to harass, persecute, torment and oppress mankind. If an all-powerful and all-knowing being creates everything, and allows his creations to react in a certain way, he actually intended them to act in that way and is solely responsible for the results.

God is not responsible for the carnality of mankind. That was man's soul. Yes it's your right to disobey him and choose not to follow him.
But remember there's judgement and it's his right to execute judgement the way he deems fit.
If that's the case I wonder why we wasted 2 pages debating God's judgement on the disobedient souls in Noah's time. If it was their right to disobey God, why cry loud when God enforce his own right of judgment.

Maynman:
People that drink started one day not drinking.
If god knows your exact choice before you made it how then do you have freewill?
Now you are changing mouth, your god does not know possible choices now he knows your exact choice?

How does your god know what I’ll be doing next year if I decided to change my thoughts this evening?
How was he able to plan what will happen in the future?

If all your future is in his hands that means you are a robot doing exactly what yahweh wants you to do.

Are we being rational here or just trying to proof a point?
Let's take God out of it for a while.
U plan to spend next year April in Abuja. U decided to change plan today and stay in Lagos next year april. What influenced that decision? u just made it because u want to or because of factors that influenced the decision u made in your heart?
That's why I said God knows your heart because that's where all your decision comes from.

Maynman:
Your god does not know IF i will follow him or not. Your god does not know everything.
your god does not know the choice you’ll make between obeying him or not?

Since your god does not know if I’ll follow him or not how then does he know my exact choice this time next year?
You are contradicting yourself.

Now we finally get there. Thank u Jesus.
Why don't u want to follow God? Remember Paul was more obstinate than yourself but ended up working for God.
Instead of arguing here on choices, why don't u embrace Christ fully and check out those beautiful choices he has for u.
It's more productive than debating on original sin or choices.

Maynman:
But god does not know if i will continue to disobey him or not?
How does your god know the future if he does not even know the exact choice I’ll pick in the next 1 minute?

YOUR GOD DOES NOT KNOW THE EXACT CHOICE I WILL PICK, he only knows available choices.
If he doesn’t know the exact choice I’ll pick, when i do it will suprise him.
Your god does not know EVERYTHING. Your god is not all knowing.

Let me make it real for u.
GOD KNOWS THE EXACT CHOICE U WILL MAKE THIS SAME TIME NEXT YEAR IF U CHOOSE TO FOLLOW HIM. HE ALSO KNOWS THE EXACT CHOICE U WILL MAKE THIS SAME TIME NEXT YEAR IF U CONTINUE TO DISOBEY HIM
THE CHOICE IS FOR YOUR SOUL TO MAKE.

[quote author=AntiChristian post=122680202][/quote]Stop spamming this thread with long mention. Pick a topic and invite whoever to discuss. Nobody has time for that long list.

Maynman:
My question is simple enough it’s you that’s complicating it.

Is man's nature a part of man, just as hands and feet are a part of man?

God made man and that same God is angry at what he made lol

I think u need to do some readings on Christian theological definition of man. I sincerely don't know how to help u.
Hands and feet are not nature of man as per Christian theology. There are people without hands and feet but are very much alive. They are part of his body not nature.

Maynman:
An all knowing god has no business with “available choices” that’s GAMBLING, an all knowing god knows EXACTLY the choice you’ll make.

Using your logic your god does not know what will happen tomorrow, he only knows what can possible happen, i can also do that.

Look up what omniscience means

I already answered this. Your exact choice isn't abstract. It's as a result of your thoughts and what's filled in your heart. You can't make an exact choice of spending this evening drinking alcohol in the pub if u dont drink. So God knows your heart and knows what your next exact choice will be even without u making it.
Now the question is do u know your exact choice for same time next year. Do u know EXACTLY if u would be debating with me this next time next year on Christian theology on nairaland. The answer is NO, You don't even know where u will be same time next year no matter your definition of exact choice.
But GOD knows, WHY? because he's all knowing. All your future is already in his hands whether u turning left or right.
That's the definition of all knowing.

Maynman:
Yes, so Who gave man two hands and two feet and created them exactly as they are today, and exactly as they were in the time of Adam and Eve?

It's not clear what u getting at here? God made man including his 2 hands and feet which is his body.
Sorry u not making yourself clear with your repeated body question.

Maynman:
But your god doesn’t know exactly what will happen this time next year he only knows POSSIBLE choices, just like a gambler doesn’t know exactly how the game will end he only knows POSSIBLE choices.
Your god does not know EVERYTHING, he is not omniscience.

Your god does not know what will happen in the future for SURE.


Also how does your god even know the possible choices available to me next year?
My choices this evening can affect where I’ll be next year and like you said earlier “ For the ones u will make in the future, he's waiting for you.”
How does he know my future if he is waiting for me?

You keep contradicting yourself.

Let's define all knowing God.
This doesn't mean he has a fixed destiny for u with definite outcome without any alternative. No that's not all knowing but pre-destination.
God only pre-destined for those who have commited their lives fully to him and surrendered to his will totally. His children who have said 'God take my soul, it's yours. Let your will be done in my life'
For the rest of mankind, God's desire is to bring us into his fold. He knows the pathway u taking will definitely lead to destruction if u continue in it- he knows those choices and the eventual outcome, either present or the future.
However he has another future for sinners if they can revert from their evil ways and turn to him. Thats a choice u have to make.
So according to above, God knows your future if you continur to disobey him but also knows a better future for u if u embrace him and come into his fold.
That is the meaning of all knowing God. He knows ALL THE CHOICES AVAILABLE, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT U WHICHEVER WAY U TURN and the eventual outcome. Nothing takes him by surprise.

Maynman:
Also you said adam was greedy that’s why he disobeyed.
So Adam had all these traits of disobedience and greediness BEFORE he even ate the fruit, where did he learn it from? Who put it in him?
Did Yahweh know that adam would sin?

Ok let me tell u why God made man.
God wanted beings that will obey and worship him because they choose to.
Celestial beings don't have that choice, they are all compelled to obey and worship God.
Now God gave man a soul that makes decision for him. Of course God wants us to worship him but he wants it to come from our free will. With the help of the spirit , it was meant to be obedience to God forever.
God gave Adam that choice in the garden. It was left for Adam to choose his path based on the leading of his soul.

Maynman:
So your god does not know all things, he is also waiting and hoping for what will happen in the future?
no wonder he keeps regretting like gamblers when they stake wrongly.
Your god is not all knowing.

Your god also doesn’t know anyone next thoughts just like the gamblers, he is also waiting.

How is the book of revelation certain since he doesn’t know what will happen in the future as he is waiting according to what you said.
You keep contradicting yourself.

If your god knows the future that means he knows your future choices before you made it in the present yet you have freewill lol
You keep contradicting yourself.

See this one. Do u know where u will be in 2050. Do u know what decision u will make on 24/5/2026. Do u for certain where u will be on that day.
God already knows all possible choices available at your whim this time next year depending on how you choose to live your life now.

Maynman:
Do you know what “ALL knowing” mean?
So your god does not know the particular choice you’ll choose?

Gamblers knows the end of all choices available in a game but don’t know how the game will go.
Gamblers don’t know the future, your god also doesn’t that’s why he keeps regretting.

If your god doesn’t know exactly what will happen in the future, that means the book of revelation is a farce.

God knows the decision u will make in the present because he knows your heart and understands your thoughts.
For the ones u will make in the future, he's waiting for you.
Gamblers don't even know their own next thoughts, they wait for the next turn of cards to adjust their game.
The book of revelation is for a certain future when humanity and earth is over, and no more choices. What we have is judgement.

Maynman:
Who gave man two hands and two feet and created them exactly as they are today, and exactly as they were in the time of Adam and Eve?

What u describing is the body

Maynman:
So your god does not know your decision before you made it, how then does he know the future?

Who created man with his body, spirit and soul?
Who created man’s nature?

Sincerely your question isn't clear. Are u talking about decision make at a particular period in time.
God knows the end of all choices available at your whims but u will be the one to choose. Whichever one u choose, he knows the end.

Man doesn't have a fixed destiny. Like u will grow up and become an armed robber and then u will rob a bank one day and be shot by police officers and then die. Or this child will grow up and will definitely become the president of Nigeria- nothing can change it.
No, that's not Christianity. U confusing it with Islam.

Ok I wil repeat man's nature for the last time and that's it.
God made man as a being who is a made in God's image which is the spirit, has a soul given to him by God and lives in the body which is from earth.

Maynman:
But he already knows the decision you’ll pick before you decided to pick it, if you have freewill how was he able to know your choice?
When you think you have a choice it’s yahweh deceiving you that you have one, he has already programmed you to choose the choice he wants that’s why he knows your choice before you picked it.

Is everything that’s part of man come from god?
Did yahweh know that adam would sin?
Before adam sin, where did adam get the desire for knowledge?

Then explain deut 30.19 when God says
I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live,
God knows your decision at the point of making it because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
In Christianity, man doesn't have a fixed destiny he brought from heaven or a destiny stuck with him at birth. That's Islam.

Only spirit is from God, body is from earth and he gave man a soul. The soul isn't part of God.
Adam had knowledge and intelligence that came from God. How was he able to tend the soil and gives names without knowledge. Man desired wisdom to make him like GOd, that was his greed.
God doesn't think sin, it's against his nature. His thoughts for us are good and pure.
Adam had the choice to either obey God and live or disobey him and accept the consequence. It had nothing to do with God.