Qasim6:



You just show how ignorant you are of human history.

You must have lived in 6th century Arabia to have known the custom in the 6th century Arabia.

Umar Ibn-alkattab married ummKulthum when she was between age 10-12

Qasim6:


Talitha does not necessarily mean little girl, it could mean maiden.

Ohyoudidnt:


I see we are coming to some degree of agreement. Some apocrypha are accepted and others rejected.

In any case. I pointed at age range of 12-14 for Mary. Which age do you agree with and why?

Which book or books do you say are forged ?

Ohyoudidnt:


The Deuterocanonical books were included in the Septuagint, but not the Hebrew Bible. They are mostly included in the Catholic Old Testament, but not in the Protestant one.

Ohyoudidnt:


The Deuterocanonical books were included in the Septuagint, but not the Hebrew Bible. They are mostly included in the Catholic Old Testament, but not in the Protestant one.

Ohyoudidnt:


Ok o.

Furthermore



The Apocrypha, also known as the Deuterocanonical books are rejected by protestants but were part of the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament used by early Christians.

Discoveries among the Dead Sea Scrolls have revealed copies of some Deuterocanonical works, indicating that these texts were held in high regard by certain Jewish communities.

Early Christian writers such as Clement of Alexandria and Irenaeus referenced and quoted from these books as authoritative scripture, demonstrating a tradition within early Christianity that recognized their value.

Various early Church councils, including those at Rome (382 AD), Carthage (393 AD), and Hippo (397 AD), affirmed the canonicity of certain Apocryphal books, aligning with a broader acceptance within early Christian communities.

Qasim6:



Historically, the marrigable age for Jewish girls at the time was 12. Mary just got betrothed when she became pregnant.

Qasim6:

So, How are sure Mary wasn't 12? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Qasim6:

Was it moral or Immoral when God (who is Jesus according to you) allowed the Israelites to kill non Virgin women, young Boys and keep young girls for themselves in Numbers 31: 17-18?

Qasim6:

We are in different age, we have different expectations from society, I believe a girl less than 18 at this point in human history have no business being a bride not to talk of receiving the punishment for Adultery.

Ohyoudidnt:


You claim it has been thoroughly thrashed that Mary wasn't 12?

How old was she? However thorough you claim it is far from convincing.

Your view of sleeping with a 9yr old being immoral is subject to opinion though this doesn't imply an agreement that Aisha r.a was 9years though you have earlier pointed to an age of 6.

You strongly base this age claim on hadith(s) and I ask what date or which dates these these reports come to be? Can you absolutely rely on them?

Unfortunately focus is on far reaching punishments under the Sharia without considering what this law in accord with Islam/quran put in place to limit the commitment of this crime. The process to convict for adultery is quite far reaching and I ask in return how many people prophet Muhammad pbuh had punished by killing for adultery?

I easily recall one man who was sufficient evidence by testifying 4 times against himself. How easy is it to get 4 credible witnesses for adultery?

Call to mind a similar case when one woman was accused of adultery in the Bible? It may have been a ploy to set Jesus up however in the way he handled this you see an implied requirement of proof. Was the partner she committed adultery with mentioned? Why punish one part of the offenders and leave the other free?

Also call to mind that Aisha r.a was accused of this but it was slander and untrue.

Ohyoudidnt:


Historians not Muslims agree that Mary was most likely between 12 and 14 years old when Jesus was born.

The Virgin Mary, Jesus' earthly mother, is best known for her spiritual wisdom. Her example of trust in God and faith inspires thousands of people. Most time, artwork portrays her as a grown woman, but how old was Mary when she had Jesus? Historians believe that she was a young teenager when she gave birth, between the ages of 12 and 14.

As a teen, Mary answered the call from God for a purpose that she couldn’t have imagined. She didn’t let her age stop her from moving forward with God’s plan for her life. By learning Mary’s story, we can find out how to respond when God calls us to take action in our lives.




The age that menarche occurs is mostly attributed to the interaction of genetics and various environmental factors. Onset of menarche has varied over the years. You also know that human medicine is not an absolute science. There are variations.



Do enlighten me but I know from Eusebius account in The Church History that a laundryman from the masses took a club used for beating out clothes and hit James the Just on the head which brought about his death despite surviving the fall.

Kobojunkie:
You got the wrong blind man. Read instead John 9 about the man who was born blind. He didn't know who Jesus Christ was; Jesus Christ had to introduce Himself to the man after the man, and his parents, had been interrogated by the Pharisees.

Also, investigate the people of Chorazin and Bethsaida, whom Jesus Christ healed and eventually had to curse at, how much faith did He, Jesus Christ find then?

Jesus Christ never said people needed to have even a mustard seed of faith to be healed. Recall that it was His followers who needed to have the mustard seed of faith to be able to move mountains and do the works of God. Those who simply needed to be healed, many of them outside of Jesus Christ, never required faith before they could be healed. That included those who were dead among them too.

By the way, we still have yet to define faith for this discussion. My understanding of the term "faith" is different from yours. So, can you clearly state what faith is? And please, do not resort to the cheap religious tales regarding this particular story cause many of us are sick to the bones of the lies you religious folks spew using the name of God.

Ohyoudidnt:

Luke 1
39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea,
40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”

-Mary of Galilee: Mary in the New Testament,Bertrand Buby


- The Jewishness of Mary;Sister M. Danielle Peters

Ohyoudidnt:

Luke 1
39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea,
40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”

-Mary of Galilee: Mary in the New Testament,Bertrand Buby


- The Jewishness of Mary;Sister M. Danielle Peters

Ohyoudidnt:


In the context provided, Mary was called a woman by Elizabeth in the Bible because of the significance and respect associated with the term “woman” in that cultural and religious context. When Elizabeth addressed Mary as “woman,” it was a term of honor and recognition of Mary’s role in bearing the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The use of “woman” in this instance signified reverence and acknowledgment of Mary’s unique position as the mother of the Lord.

AyobamiOluwole:


Wow. This is how I saw it to be honest. It wasn't a difficult thing I asked. In that moment I only needed someone to comfort me. A cuddle was the only thing I could think of. How could she not see it that way? And my anger was so bad I acted foolishly. 😔

Ohyoudidnt:


It's reported that James the Just was thrown down from the parapet (of the Temple) and beaten to death with a fuller’s club;

James the Just was thrown down and pelted because he refused to renounce Jesus despite pressure from a group of furious scribes and Pharisees. When they demanded that he denounce his faith, James steadfastly refused, leading to his apprehension. Subsequently, he was taken to the pinnacle of the Temple in Jerusalem and thrown down by the angry mob.

Obviously Jesus was not accepted even after his death and his followers too were killed for sticking to a doctrine that wasn't accepted by the priests who followed the previous scripture including the Torah and Scrolls of Isaiah

Ohyoudidnt:


You don't have convincing proof on the age of Mary? Is this to be left to speculation?

The mention of Jairus’ daughter as a “little girl” at 12 years old reflects a term used affectionately or to denote youthfulness rather than literal age.

In ancient Jewish culture, it was not uncommon for girls to be married at a young age, sometimes as early as onset of puberty.

The concept of childhood and adolescence in terms of age ranges and societal roles differed significantly from modern standards.

Ohyoudidnt:


You don't have convincing proof on the age of Mary? Is this to be left to speculation?

The mention of Jairus’ daughter as a “little girl” at 12 years old reflects a term used affectionately or to denote youthfulness rather than literal age.

In ancient Jewish culture, it was not uncommon for girls to be married at a young age, sometimes as early as onset of puberty.

The concept of childhood and adolescence in terms of age ranges and societal roles differed significantly from modern standards.

Ohyoudidnt:


@ANTIIISLAM TENQ SIRTEE15 ADVOCATEJARE MIGHTYSPARROW

What do you say?

Ohyoudidnt:


[size=15pt]How Old Was Mary When Jesus Was Born[/size]?
The Bible does not tell us directly how old Mary was when she gave birth to Jesus.

“This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:18).

During this time in history, Jewish girls would have been betrothed (engaged) to their husbands as early as the age of 12 years old. Scholars believe Mary would have been somewhere between 12-16 years old when she had Jesus.

If Mary was 12 this is also teenage with the other ages varying from early teens. There are only 7 years of teenage. 16 just crosses the mid teenage.

AntiChristian:


A woman has no marriage age in Islam. And marriage is not connected to fasting!

Marriage is not connected to fasting! Even an adult who is sick, breastfeeding, having menses or parturition blood, traveling or very old may not fast.


It won't make sense to hypocrites!



So marriage and fasting are not connected at all as you put it!

I know a kid of 8 years who fasted over 25 days in Ramadan in the past!

Ohyoudidnt:


You are fixated thanks to the falsity of the media. You sure have seen other ages outside 6 but choose to stick with that. It's your choice and any other that so agrees. Maybe you will get to know absolutely and maybe not however much or less it matters to you.

The actual age of Aisha when she married Prophet Muhammad was likely in her late teens.

Claims of Aisha being 6 years old:

Critics allege that Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine. This claim is based on a saying attributed to Aisha herself in Sahih Bukhari.
However, historical records and analysis suggest that this claim may not be accurate. The context of seventh-century Arabia, where adulthood was defined by the onset of puberty, indicates that Aisha would have been considered an adult at a younger age than in modern times.

Claims of Aisha being 9 years old:

Some Muslims believe in the accuracy of the saying regarding Aisha’s young age, arguing that she must have entered puberty early based on the norms of the time.
However, there are doubts about the reliability of this specific hadith, as historical records indicate discrepancies in estimating ages without formal documentation.


Teenage marriage perspective:

Various historical accounts and analyses suggest that Aisha was likely in her late teens when she married Muhammad. Factors such as her participation in battles and comparisons with other individuals’ ages support this view.
The marriage between Muhammad and Aisha served social and political functions common in Arabian society at that time, rather than being solely based on personal desires.

cc: Honesttalk21

Ohyoudidnt:


Thank you for sharing.

Is age and maturity a determining factor for worship. Is it not said that you teach them when young so they don't depart from the path? A young child is not obligated (to be forced to do something or feel that you must do something) to fast for good reason such as development requiring nutrition and less strain which may come from the fast.

Now in the case of Aisha may Allah be pleased with her different ages have been suggested at the time of her marriage to the prophet.

However for a lady or even a male to be married taking a part of Quran 4:6 which shouldn't be looked at in isolation of the preceding verses; "Try, test, well the orphans, before reaching maturity with regard [the duties of] religion and [before] they can [legally] manage their own affairs, until they reach the age of marrying, that is, until they have become eligible for it through puberty or [legal] age; then, if you perceive in them maturity, that is, right [judgement] in matters of religion and their property, deliver their property to them; consume it not, O guardians, wastefully, without due merit, and in haste, that is, hastening to expend it, fearing, lest they should grow up, and become mature, at which time you will be obliged to hand it over to them. If any man, who is a guardian, is rich, let him be abstinent, that is, let him abstain from the orphan’s property and refrain from consuming it; if he is poor, let him consume, of it, honourably, that is, in line with the wage for his work. And when you deliver to them, the orphans, their property, take witnesses over them, that they have received it and that you are absolved [of the obligation], so that if any dispute occurs, you are able to refer to a clear proof: this is a command [intended] for guidance. God suffices as a reckoner, as a guardian of His creatures’ deeds and as a reckoner of these [deeds] (the bā’ [in bi’Llāhi] is extra)."

In analyzing the historical and religious context surrounding Aisha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad, it becomes evident that she had fulfilled the requirements to be married when she entered into this union.

Ohyoudidnt:


Can you share the article or post a link to it?

This will enable an adequate response.

TenQ:

There is nothing beyond the power of Allah, especially in enabling a six year old baby girl to handle the sexual instrument of 50 something year old mallam

Have faith!

gaskiyamagana:

Let me help you ask more questions of your reasoning, thinking and understanding:
1. How is it possible for a person to say he went to Jerusalem and from there to heaven and come back before morning just within a night ?
2. If God don't want us to drink palm wine, why did He create Palm wine tree?

Ohyoudidnt:


What?

The Hebrew Bible, also known as Mikra (“what is read”) or TaNaKh, an acronym referring to the traditional Jewish division of the Bible into Torah (Teaching), Nevi’im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), is the founding document of the people of Israel, describing its origins, history and visions of a just society.

The word Bible, from the Greek, ta biblia(attention Tenq who forgot the ta), is plural and means “books.” This reflects the fact that the Bible is actually a collection of individual books (such as Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, Song of Songs, and many others).

Enoch is believed to have existed before Moses based on biblical accounts, the compilation of his book after the Torah can be attributed to various factors related to canonization, theological emphasis, and historical context.

The process of canonization in Judaism and Christianity involved careful selection and recognition of certain texts as authoritative scripture. The Torah, being foundational to both faiths, was given priority in terms of inclusion in the biblical canon.

Also the he content and themes of Enoch’s book may not have aligned completely with the theological perspectives and teachings that were emphasized in the Torah. This could have influenced its later compilation and acceptance within certain religious traditions.

In summation the historical context in which these texts were written and compiled also played a role. The Torah was foundational to Israelite religion and identity, while Enoch’s book may have been seen as more esoteric or specialized in nature.

Ohyoudidnt:


What?

The Hebrew Bible, also known as Mikra (“what is read”) or TaNaKh, an acronym referring to the traditional Jewish division of the Bible into Torah (Teaching), Nevi’im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), is the founding document of the people of Israel, describing its origins, history and visions of a just society.

The word Bible, from the Greek, ta biblia(attention Tenq who forgot the ta), is plural and means “books.” This reflects the fact that the Bible is actually a collection of individual books (such as Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, Song of Songs, and many others).

Enoch is believed to have existed before Moses based on biblical accounts, the compilation of his book after the Torah can be attributed to various factors related to canonization, theological emphasis, and historical context.

The process of canonization in Judaism and Christianity involved careful selection and recognition of certain texts as authoritative scripture. The Torah, being foundational to both faiths, was given priority in terms of inclusion in the biblical canon.

Also the he content and themes of Enoch’s book may not have aligned completely with the theological perspectives and teachings that were emphasized in the Torah. This could have influenced its later compilation and acceptance within certain religious traditions.

In summation the historical context in which these texts were written and compiled also played a role. The Torah was foundational to Israelite religion and identity, while Enoch’s book may have been seen as more esoteric or specialized in nature.

Ohyoudidnt:


Why can't you stay on the topic. We are talking about the Torah but the verse in Luke you share in support of Jesus actually reading is neither the Torah nor amongst the first five books of the Bible. Why do you insist on saying what isn't?

I had answered the question on the Torah as if this is what the Pharisee and probably Sadducee elders or whichever other priests taught or shared with Jesus I cannot validate the authenticity as Jesus accused these people of lying.

Ohyoudidnt:


The Torah or first five books includes the book of Genesis isn't It? Enoch is mentioned here isn't he? Why then is the book of Enoch not part of the Torah?

Do you see the relevance of the Torah's compilation or canonization here?