gaskiyamagana:

Let me help you ask more questions of your reasoning, thinking and understanding:
1. How is it possible for a person to say he went to Jerusalem and from there to heaven and come back before morning just within a night ?
2. If God don't want us to drink palm wine, why did He create Palm wine tree?

1. Possibly supernatural so far as the person is a theist. The problem is if there are no human witness to such supernatural claim, how can we believe him? How are we sure he's not hallucinating? Or lying?

2. There's nothing wrong in drinking palm wine. It's a natural product. God will not make anything evil. Excesses is what God frown upon.
Look at weed, a natural plant. For long time it was demonised. Now we realised cannabis is a actually good for seizures, chronic pain, neuropathic pain, some symptoms associated with multiple sclerosis.

Everything has it's good side. Excess is what God frowns upon. Even food and water.

I read an interesting islamic literature on front-page where it says children are not allowed to fast during the month of Ramadan.

So my question to our Muslims colleagues...
If a 6 year old girl is not matured enough to fast, how come she is matured enough to get married.
If a 9 year old girl is not fully developed enough to fast for just 28 days, how come she's fully developed enough to have sex all year round.
It's not making sense, I need an enlightened Muslim to demystify the mystery.

Pls no insult , remember it's the month of Ramadan. If I don't know the answer, just pass.
Thank U.

Cc honesttalk, antiChristian, Ohyoudidn't, expanse, LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, Gaskiyamagana, drlateef, ,iamrealdeji madridguy, Explore2xmore
Qasim6 ahmedio2017

Ohyoudidnt:


What?

The Hebrew Bible, also known as Mikra (“what is read”) or TaNaKh, an acronym referring to the traditional Jewish division of the Bible into Torah (Teaching), Nevi’im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), is the founding document of the people of Israel, describing its origins, history and visions of a just society.

The word Bible, from the Greek, ta biblia(attention Tenq who forgot the ta), is plural and means “books.” This reflects the fact that the Bible is actually a collection of individual books (such as Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, Song of Songs, and many others).

Enoch is believed to have existed before Moses based on biblical accounts, the compilation of his book after the Torah can be attributed to various factors related to canonization, theological emphasis, and historical context.

The process of canonization in Judaism and Christianity involved careful selection and recognition of certain texts as authoritative scripture. The Torah, being foundational to both faiths, was given priority in terms of inclusion in the biblical canon.

Also the he content and themes of Enoch’s book may not have aligned completely with the theological perspectives and teachings that were emphasized in the Torah. This could have influenced its later compilation and acceptance within certain religious traditions.

In summation the historical context in which these texts were written and compiled also played a role. The Torah was foundational to Israelite religion and identity, while Enoch’s book may have been seen as more esoteric or specialized in nature.

Let me ask U a question . Is it that when people bring evidence here U don't read it or U refuse to accept it the reality.

I already brought here evidence that the Hebrew bible is called the Torah. Yet U continue in your ignorant delusion repeating the same thing over and over as if they change anything.
The Jews called their book Torah. Why are U challenging them.

Ohyoudidnt:


What?

The Hebrew Bible, also known as Mikra (“what is read”) or TaNaKh, an acronym referring to the traditional Jewish division of the Bible into Torah (Teaching), Nevi’im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), is the founding document of the people of Israel, describing its origins, history and visions of a just society.

The word Bible, from the Greek, ta biblia(attention Tenq who forgot the ta), is plural and means “books.” This reflects the fact that the Bible is actually a collection of individual books (such as Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, Song of Songs, and many others).

Enoch is believed to have existed before Moses based on biblical accounts, the compilation of his book after the Torah can be attributed to various factors related to canonization, theological emphasis, and historical context.

The process of canonization in Judaism and Christianity involved careful selection and recognition of certain texts as authoritative scripture. The Torah, being foundational to both faiths, was given priority in terms of inclusion in the biblical canon.

Also the he content and themes of Enoch’s book may not have aligned completely with the theological perspectives and teachings that were emphasized in the Torah. This could have influenced its later compilation and acceptance within certain religious traditions.

In summation the historical context in which these texts were written and compiled also played a role. The Torah was foundational to Israelite religion and identity, while Enoch’s book may have been seen as more esoteric or specialized in nature.

So why is the book of Job not in the Torah. Job existed before Abraham.

Ohyoudidnt:


Why can't you stay on the topic. We are talking about the Torah but the verse in Luke you share in support of Jesus actually reading is neither the Torah nor amongst the first five books of the Bible. Why do you insist on saying what isn't?

I had answered the question on the Torah as if this is what the Pharisee and probably Sadducee elders or whichever other priests taught or shared with Jesus I cannot validate the authenticity as Jesus accused these people of lying.

All claim have been debunked. You are just stubborn and obstinate.

I brought evidence here that the Hebrew bible is also called the Torah. Torah means law and Jews believe the commandments of God continues beyond Moses and follows the saying of other prophets which must also be obeyed.

That's why they called their Hebrew bible Torah.
I brought the evidence here, what else do U want me to do.

Leave aside what Jesus said to the Pharisees. That's not the point here.

Jesus himself quoted the law of Moses extensively. He tells people “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Matt
5.21

This shows Jesus and his followers both read the SAME TORAH. That's why he's telling them, 'You have heard'

Now my question is the Torah available in the synagogue during the time of Jesus that everybody including Jesus was reading...is it the true Torah or the corrupted Torah.

You are not ready to answer my question, and the thing don dey tire me.

This topic is about Tawhid so I want to ask about Tawhid.

To Muslims pls clarify.....
Can I worship the shin of Allah. If Allah is one, why can't I worship the shin of Allah.

Ohyoudidnt:


The Torah or first five books includes the book of Genesis isn't It? Enoch is mentioned here isn't he? Why then is the book of Enoch not part of the Torah?

Do you see the relevance of the Torah's compilation or canonization here?

When was the book of Enoch written.
When was the 5 books of Moses compiled.

Ohyoudidnt:


It's a straight forward commonality that as individually owned written scripture were not common in Israel in the time of Jesus similarly wriitten scripture was scarce at Mecca or even Medina when Prophet Muhammad pbuh was preaching.

You keep emphasizing a Torah in Jesus hand but you failed to show a relevant point to affirm this. However you want to say it the Scrolls of Isaiah are not a part of this book.

The scrolls of Isaiah are not a part of the Pentateuch, which is comprised of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The Pentateuch is also known as the Torah, and it is considered the foundational text of Judaism.

The scrolls of Isaiah, on the other hand, are part of the Nevi'im, or the Prophets, in the Hebrew Bible. Isaiah is a book of prophecy, written by the prophet Isaiah, who lived in the 8th century BCE.

It's obvious U will never answer my question. What U doing now is called whataboutism.

I already told U the Torah we talking about here is the 5 books of Moses.

All I'm asking is the Torah in existence during the time of jesus, the one he read and quoted....is it the true Torah or the corrupted Torah?

How else do U want me to explain it.

Anyway let's move to Tawhid which is the topic of this thread.

Ohyoudidn't, tell me can I worship the shin of Allah.
If not explain to me how your Allah is one if I cannot worship his shin.

If U say I cannot worship the shin of Allah, Are U then saying the shin of Allah is not Allah but parts of him.

Ohyoudidn't redeem yourself now. Don't let Tawhid do into the mud just like jesus of the Koran holding the Torah entered potopoto.

Ohyoudidnt:



How can this be a valid yardstick? You didn't challenge my statements regarding what and what didn't make the cannon or how decisions about what made it were made?

In any case when Jesus said in John 8:44, to the priests that 'You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies' was he not stating they were lying?

Were these lies devoid about lying on the content of the scripture ?

We already made it clear that the Torah we talking about here is the Pentateuch- the 5 books of Moses.
So what canon are U talking about again.

Ohyoudidnt:


As you mentioned in your earlier post regarding the Torah there individual copies of scripture were not prominent in Israel and though over 600 years after why will you expect copies to be common in Mecca when parts of the recitation were scribbled on tree backs, animal skin, rocks etc?

You see the challenge with accepting a book between hands and not revelation?


I don't follow Sam Shamoun but you may want to drop notes about his points or arguments.

I don't understand your point. Why are U talking about Mecca. What has Torah in the hand of Jesus preaching in Galilee has to do with Mecca.

If U see accepting a book between the hand as problematic, then question your quran or Muhammed who wrote it.
The Qur'an clearly said Jesus had the Torah between his hand.

It's obvious u will never answer my question. I don't blame U, no single Muslim will dare answer the question
This question exposed the Qur'an as a fraud and not anything divine.
I repeat, no single Muslim dare answer this question-

The Torah in the hand of Jesus when he was preaching, is it the true Torah or the corrupted Torah?
I challenge any Muslim to answer the question .

Ohyoudidnt:


I clearly say I don't know. The Bible says Jesus had debates and rebuking with them. As to what extent I cannot be sure if it was just them saying what they don't do or a case of also changing content

The answer is clearly in the bible.

Matthew 23

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4

Here Jesus made it clear that the priests and scribe preach from the Torah, thus people must listen to them. This indicate the Torah with the Pharisee is the true Torah!!!
Jesus only accused the Pharisee of not doing what is the torah itself.

I know u Muslims claim the bible is corrupt. That's why I'm now asking U if the Torah Jesus preached from is the true one or the corrupted one.

That answer is very important because the integrity of the Qur'an depends on your response.

Ohyoudidnt:


The limits or is it dangers of strictly relying on translations.

The Arabic phrase “بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ” Bayna yadayhi is used in the Quran to refer to something that was revealed or given beforehand. In this context, it signifies the previous revelations or scriptures that were sent down by Allah before the Quran. Therefore, a more accurate translation of this phrase in Quran 5:46 would be “what was revealed before.”

This translation emphasizes the continuity and interconnectedness of the divine messages throughout history, highlighting the belief in the unity of all prophets and scriptures. It underscores the idea that the Quran does not negate the teachings of previous revelations but rather confirms and completes them.

By using the phrase “بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ,” the Quran acknowledges the existence of earlier scriptures such as the Torah and the Gospel, recognizing them as legitimate sources of guidance from Allah. This inclusive approach reinforces the concept of a universal message that transcends time and space, uniting believers across different faith traditions.

in the verse 5:46, the phrase "بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ" occurs, which can be translated as "what is between your hands" or "what was revealed before". This phrase is used in reference to the previous scriptures revealed by Allah before the Quran. It serves as a reminder to believers that the message of the Quran is not something new or different, but a continuation of the divine guidance that has been sent down to mankind throughout history.

The Quran acknowledges the existence of previous scriptures, such as the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel, which were revealed to earlier prophets like Moses, David and Jesus. These scriptures contained valuable guidance and teachings for their respective communities, but over time they were either lost, corrupted, or misunderstood by people. This is why Allah sent the Quran as a final and complete revelation, to correct any errors and provide a clear and unadulterated message for all of humanity.

By using the phrase "بَيۡنَ يَدَيۡهِ", the Quran emphasizes the continuity and interconnectedness of the divine revelations. It tells believers that the Quran is not a standalone scripture, but a confirmation and a culmination of the previous scriptures. It is a reminder that the fundamental message of all the prophets, from Adam to Muhammad, has always been the same: to worship Allah alone and to live a righteous and just life.

So U already acknowledged the translation wasnt wrong. And that the Arabic phrase in 5.46 could mean that which is held between the hand.
So what's the danger of translation U talking about?
Sam shamoun already dealt with these verse with islamic scholars and clearly proved it meant 'that which is placed between the hand'.
FYI Sam is a native Arabic speaker so U can't bobo him.

Jesus of the Koran held the Torah in his hand...pure and simple.

The question is did Jesus hold a corrupted Torah or the true torah. U are yet to answer that question.

Ohyoudidnt:


I don't know what he learned and read from the priests and elders whom he challenged but he knew the truth by divine endowment. Recall Quran 19:30

So are U saying the Torah in the hands of the priest and elders in the synagogues during the time of jesus was corrupted. Is that your answer.

Ohyoudidnt:

Qaala innee ‘abdullaahi aataaniyal Kitaaba wa ja’alanee Nabiyyaa

He (Jesus) said, “I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture, and made me a prophet.

Are U saying Allah give Jesus another new Torah, is that what U saying here.
As far I'm aware the scripture Allah gave Jesus of the Koran was the injeel. Qur'an never said said Jesus of the Koran was given the Torah.

Ohyoudidnt:


The Torah known to Jesus or the Torah Jesus held between his hands? Which is It?

When you include a book that isn't part of the Torah in your statement that isn't it's no problem reminding you.

As it is it's best you ask Jesus as the selective Biblical canon is not free of human manipulation to determine what should and shouldn't be there.

The call on you was to help antiislam show the arabic that translates to Bible in Quran 10:94 but this wasn't seen. Thanks for your time and contributions.

I already said for the sake of argument the Torah is the Pentateuch- the five book of Moses.
The Torah given to Moses by Allah. That's the one I'm asking about.

Why are U dribbling backwards. We passed that stage hours ago.

Now that U know the books I'm asking, can U PLEASE answer the question.

The Torah Jesus read and learnt when he was preaching. Is it the true Torah or the corrupted Torah?

Answer the question.

Ohyoudidnt:



Matthew 4:4: When tempted by Satan in the wilderness, Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3, saying, “Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.”
Matthew 19:18-19: In response to a rich young ruler asking what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus references Exodus 20:12-17 and Leviticus 19:18, stating, “You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.”
Mark 12:29-30: When asked which commandment is the most important, Jesus responds by quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-5, stating, “The most important one is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’”

These are clearly of the Torah but the knowledge Jesus has of this doesn't translate to him reading from the Torah as having scrolls in which it was written between his hands.

Jesus’ knowledge of the Torah is evident throughout the New Testament. He was born into a Jewish family and raised in a community that deeply valued and studied the Torah. As a result, Jesus was likely well-versed in its teachings from a young age. This familiarity is reflected in his discussions and debates with other religious leaders during his ministry.

Who asked U all these now🤷🤷🤷
Did I ever tell U I didn't know Jesus quote the Torah.

My question is the Torah known to Jesus Christ the true Torah or the corrupted Torah.

That's my question that Ohyoudidn't has refused to answer. A simple question of Yes or No has become problematic for Ohyoudidn't.

If U don't know the answer, call your muslims friends to help U.

THE TORAH KNOWN TO JESUS WHEN HE WAS PREACHING, IS IT THE TRUE TORAH OR THE CORRUPTED TORAH.

It's a simple question, don't fall my hand.

Ohyoudidnt:




These are clearly of the Torah but the knowledge Jesus has of this doesn't translate to him reading from the Torah as having scrolls in which it was written between his hands.

Stop lying, the Qur'an says Jesus held the Torah between his hands.

The question remain is the torah in the hand of Jesus a corrupt Torah or the true Torah.
That's the question U avoid and refused to answer.

Qur'an 5.47

And We sent on their footsteps Isa, son (of) Maryam, confirming what (was) between his hands of the Taurat, and We gave him the Injeel, in it (was) Guidance and light and confirming what (was) between his hands of the Taurat and a Guidance and an admonition for the God conscious.

Quran5.110
The Day] when Allāh will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit [i.e., the angel Gabriel] and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;

Ohyoudidnt:


Wikipedia says The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. You related:



Is the Book of Isaiah amongst the first five books of the Hebrew Bible that make up the Torah? Do you not marvel at what you initially addressed me with in your statement quoted above in yourself? It is your primary scripture you are talking about and I should not point out this slip of yours to you. The scrolls of Isaiah are not a part of the Torah.



The Septuagint is a collection of Jewish scriptures that includes both canonical and non-canonical texts.

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint contain different parts of the Scrolls of Isaiah

One of the most significant variations between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint occurs in Isaiah 7:14, which is a well-known prophetic passage that is traditionally understood to foretell the birth of Jesus Christ. In the Hebrew text of the Dead Sea Scrolls, this verse reads, "Behold, the young woman is with child and shall bring forth a son," while the Septuagint version of the same verse translates it as, "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son.

Ok seem U have some knowledge of Septuagint. The Septuagint is the greek translation of the Hebrew bible written by the Hellenistic Jews around 300bc.

Now if someone is writing the gospel in greek and wants to quota the scriptures, will he quote the greek bible or the Hebrew bible.
If he quotes the Hebrew bible, will the non Jew audience understand the verse he quoted?

It's like someone writing an islamic literature in English and wants to quote the Qur'an, will he quote the Arabic Qur'an or the English translation of the Arabic.

The gospel writers quoted the Septuagint bible because the gospel was written in Greek. Jesus wasn't misquoted by the gospel writers, they simply quoted the greek translation of the bible verse Jesus quoted.

The argument about textual variants in Septuagint and Masoretic or dead sea scrolls is beyond the cope of discussion here.
It takes a lot of discussion around evolution of linguistic etymology and transliteration of the ancient languages to other ones. U need to have sound scholastic knowledge to delve into that area.

The commonest example is the variants in English translation of the Qur'an that we have with each of using different vocabularies for same quranic verse which sometimes changes the meaning of the Qur'an verse altogether.

I don't have a problem discussing bible textual variants with U but U need to be well knowledge in the area or I will simply switch off.
I don't have a problem discussing textual variants

Ohyoudidnt:


Wikipedia says The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. You related:



Is the Book of Isaiah amongst the first five books of the Hebrew Bible that make up the Torah? Do you not marvel at what you initially addressed me with in your statement quoted above in yourself? It is your primary scripture you are talking about and I should not point out this slip of yours to you. The scrolls of Isaiah are not a part of the Torah.

Says the Alfa of nairaland claiming authority over what he knows little or nothing about.
I will blind and embarrass you with facts.

I doubt you ve written any reviewed literature including lslamic ones yet had the effontry to say Wikipedia is wrong.

More from Britannica encyclopedia and even Jewish sources.

Ohyoudidnt:


Kindly clarify so you are well understood. Did Jesus read or have the Torah between his hands or the Scrolls of Isaiah? Are the Scrolls of Isaiah the same thing as the Torah?

Assuming I get you right. What Jesus is said to have read in Luke 4:18 -19 is a rendition of Isaiah 61:1-2?

Tell then why the discrepancies as Luke 4:18-19 reads:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,o

because he has anointed me

to proclaim good newsp to the poor.

He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners

and recovery of sight for the blind,

to set the oppressed free,

19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

While Isaiah 61 reads

1. The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

Concerns are emboldened.

Which captives or prisoners did Jesus free?

Which old wastes were raised and or repaired?

Does this not show confirmation with Quran 2:79 So woe to those who distort the Scripture with their own hands then say, “This is from Allah”—seeking a fleeting gain! So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned?

Or a distortion of Isaiah 61 in what is related in Lukec4:18 isn't obvious?

Have U heard of the Septuagint?

Ohyoudidnt:


ad hominem fallacy?

How?

My seeking clarification becomes an attack on your personality?



The Scroll of the Prophet Isaiah is a part of the Nevi’im, or the Prophets, in the Hebrew Bible. It is not a part of the Torah. The Nevi’im is the second section of the Hebrew Bible, following the Torah and preceding the Ketuvim (Writings).

Is this implying you don't know what you have as a Bible? 🤔

Selah

Argue with Wikipedia regarding what is Torah.

Just answer my question, the torah in the synagogue during the time of Jesus Christ- which he read because he quoted it regularly; is it the corrupt Torah or the true Torah.

Pls answer the question.

Cc Ohyoudidn't

Ohyoudidnt:


Kindly clarify so you are well understood. Did Jesus read or have the Torah between his hands or the Scrolls of Isaiah? Are the Scrolls of Isaiah the same thing as the Torah?

I'm not going to be distracted by your ad hominem fallacy. Let's stick to the point.

The old testament which is the Hebrew bible is also referred to as the Torah

Anyway for the sake of argument let's call Torah the Pentateuch- the book of Moses.
So my question remain the Torah in the synagogue during the time of Jesus Christ which he must have studied and read, is it the true Torah or the corrupt Torah.
That's my question.


Your other question on Isaiah 61 quote will be answered separately.
It's irrelevant to the topic here.

Ohyoudidnt:


Did you read what you are replying to right?

My submissions are in respect of Jewish belief in Muhammad not Jesus.

In any case the Messianic Jews you refer to are more likely a smaller population than the Majority of Judaic Jews.

Some sources suggest that there are around 300,000 Messianic Jews worldwide, while others estimate the number to be much lower. In comparison, the total Jewish population is approximately 14.7 million, according to the Jewish Virtual Library.

You know very well the limitations of the Corinthians creed; who, when and why it was promulgated.

Tell me the limitations of the Corinthians creed.
Because last time I checked, scholars agreed it was a creed people were confessing within 5 years of jesus resurrection.

The Corinthian creed- 1 Corinthians 15

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6

Above was a pre Pauline testament that Paul himself received and passed on to the Corinthians. So even b4 Paul became a Christian, people were already going about and saying Jesus Christ resurrected; and modern scholars agreed this is true.

Ohyoudidnt:


There is no direct evidence in the New Testament that Jesus held a physical copy of the Torah in his hands. However, there are numerous references to Jesus’ knowledge of and familiarity with the Torah.

It is important to note that during Jesus’ time, physical copies of the Torah were not widely available. The Torah was typically written on parchment scrolls, which were expensive and time-consuming to produce. As a result, they were primarily owned by synagogues and religious institutions rather than individuals. It is unlikely that Jesus himself would have owned a physical copy of the Torah.

I can't believe this level of ignorance can come from U.

Luke 4.
Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”


So the Torah Jesus read and quoted from....is it the true Torah or the corrupt Torah.

ahmedio2017:



My brother, Jesus calling God father doesn't mean biological father. Jesus said I'm going to my father my God and your God.

He was referring to God and not biological father get that right.

Doesn't matter. Did Jesus ever called God his father. Did he ever tell his disciples to call God father.
That's my question. Not your literal or metaphorical aroye.

ahmedio2017:

god said he made mistakes he created you. What can u say about this?


god also regretted. Do you also believe that Almighty God can regret?

Study the evolution of linguistic etymology in ancient languages. Then come back and discuss.

ahmedio2017:

god also worked and got TIRED imagine? Can God rest? Can something of fatigue touch God? To the extent that god had to RESTED.

What was Jesus response when he was told by the Pharisees that God rest on the Sabath day.

ahmedio2017:

The church that Jesus Christ built how were they worshiping? Is it by clapping, dancing with another person's wife?

So U agree Jesus established the church and Christians continue to sustain the church Christ brought from heaven.
Don't worry about those who corrupt his church. They will be surely punished.
Now tell me what happen to the caliphate Muhammed established.
How far with the islamic caliphate? How is it faring nowadays. Don't U think Muslims have failed woefully to sustain the caliphate brought by Muhammad.

ahmedio2017:

If God is the biological father of Jesus then he is the biological father of disciples and you too abi?

God is my father because Jesus told me to call him father. Therefore I'm following the commandment of Jesus Christ.
The question is can U call Allah father. If U can't, then U don't follow Jesus.

ahmedio2017:




We believed in him because he's one of us, he's a Muslim and one of our prophets, Jews did not even believed in him talkless of Christianity who had little or no knowledge about Jesus Christ PBUH.

Whether you like it or not Christianity is not recognized by Jesus Christ PBUH he knew nothing about you guys go and meet your god and Paul.....

You these sheeps, AGUNTAN that's why you have no brain and manners of approach and that's why you guys are going astray....



Don't you ever in your life compare ur useless and slowpoke god with Almighty Allah because the difference is clear.

Your god made mistakes and does not

Your god RESTED like aboki who just finished digging soakeaway, Allah does not sleep nor slumber

Your god regretted and does not regret

Your god is too weak.

All these emotional rants won't safe u.
The most important thing is to seek the truth.
Now U said we Christians don't follow Jesus Christ.
Now jesus established the church.

Jesus said to Peter, "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church." (Matthew 16: 18)

Who are those that continue to sustain the legacy of the church Jesus established when he was on earth?
Christians or Muslims?

U said Muslims believe in Jesus.
Jesus called God father, do U believe Jesus called God his father.

Jesus taught his disciples to pray by calling God 'Our Father who art in heaven.
Do U believe Jesus instructed his followers to call God father.

U can't claim to believe in someone if U don't believe in his words.
If U Muslims reject calling God father, then U are not following Christ.

Ohyoudidnt:


Obviously I don't get your question kindly restate.

Also there's no consensus appart from some Christian view that Jesus was resurrected.

Outside of Christian belief, there is a lack of consensus among scholars and historians regarding the resurrection of Jesus.

I make reference to the Jews not accepting Jesus as by some your books he is a jew. Muhammad pbuh was sent to Arabia and a good number accepted him.

Not all Jews were receptive to the message of Prophet Muhammad. Some tribes in Medina, such as the Banu Qaynuqa, Banu Nadir, and Banu Qurayza, initially opposed the Muslim community and even engaged in conflict. However, others were more open to dialogue and negotiation. For instance, the Jews of Khaybar, led by the prominent Jewish leader Kinana ibn al-Rabi’, eventually made a treaty with Prophet Muhammad in 628 CE, allowing them to live under Muslim protection in exchange for tribute and cooperation.

Some Jewish scholars and communities did eventually accept Prophet Muhammad as a prophet, recognizing his message as consistent with their own religious traditions. One notable example is Rabbi ‘Amr al-Dabbi, who converted to Islam and became an influential figure in the Muslim community.
Al-Husayn ibn Salam a new who became
Abdullah ibn Salam is a prominent jew who became muslim

There are millions of Jews who have converted to Christianity. Read about messianic Jews.

Regarding scholars reject the resurrection of Christ, pls about the Corinthians creed.

Ohyoudidnt:


Interesting submission. However I sense a little typo in the post you refer to. In any case to respond to your question the name of Muhammad pbuh is mentioned at some parts of solat like the call to prayer as has been since during the prophet's time and the name of Ibrahim may Allah be pleased with him is also mentioned in the testimony of faith (Tashahhud).


2. Muhammad pbuh is one of a numbered number of messengers Allah sent amongst mankind. Indeed all is appointed to die at a point except Allah.

In relation to the hadith you quote is it not clear to you that Sahih Bukhari 3667 provides insights into the emotional reactions of prominent companions of the Prophet Muhammad during a critical moment in Islamic history – the passing of the final messenger of Allah. A case of rejection which is a normal human behaviour that one so dear should not pass away but in submission to the will of Allah and natural occurrence the reality of his death is accepted.

How many prophet's were resurrected from death or you no longer believe in the saying that it is appointed for man to die once?

Can I ask you why James is seen or called the brother of Jesus? Could you explain the reality in this?

The death of James also points clearly that the Jews never accepted Jesus or his teachings? How will the world accept this Jesus who's tribe never accepted him?

How did James the just die?

[quote author=Ohyoudidnt post=128972751][/quote]

Let me ask U a question. The Torah Jesus held in his hand during his time, is it the true Torah or corrupt Torah?

GlobeTrotter2:
you have been fed with alot of views from CNN. US said it fully on live tv by the Vice president. "We are ready to welcome Ukrain into NATO".

Putin is not a vampire
He just did what US would have done if it was in his shoes. He has repeatedly warned about this, US kept pushing. He even gave a peace favorable peace deal that Ukraine agreed to until Boris Johnson told them not to sign it.

As far as I'm concerned, zelenaky is the foolish porn who lead his people to war they can't win.

Stop lying. Ukraine was never going to join NATO. even France assured Russia.
What Ukraine was asking for was to join EU not NATO.

Putin just wanted to annex Ukraine because he deemed the govt in Kiev as too eurocentric. He didn't like their constant romance with Brussels and he saw that as a betrayal.

Ukraine made the mistake neighbours living next to superpowers don't make. Play safe, stay neutral and always assure the next door superpower BY YOUR ACTIONS.

AntiChristian:


May you not be crazy!
Wasn't Deborah a Christian? Why didn't God protect her against the arsonist?

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

Reminds me of the story of Job in the Bible!
After Satan went to whine God, God agreed to him testing Job but not to touch his life!

By that God's agreement how many people and animals died?
Who killed them, God, Satan or Both?
Do they have the choice you brought above for Deborah?

There's no choice in death!
People can die anytime!
Even miscarriage happens! People die young! No choice!

After Job's properties, sons and daughters have been destroyed/killed without their choice what did Job say:

He said "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised". Job 1:21

This is what the parents of Deborah and all Christians should have said!
But na only Satan dey kill to you all! God no dey do anything we think is bad!

God did not kill Deborah, savage Muslims did.
God is the rightful owner of souls and can take it at anytime. But he still gives mankind the right to make that choice because not only is he a just God, he's also fair.
Everybody with a sound soul will be judged according to his choices.
Unlike Allah who already knew the day I was born that I will leave this world a Christian and will definitely reject the pagan religion called islam.
Yet Allah is going to judge me on the last day based on what he already destined for me on day 1.
That's a wicked God, in case no one ever told U.
That's why Islam makes no sense.

I don't have reply your waffling on Job because I already know that I read your bible upside down.
Job made his choice...God didn't choose for him.

Job 3.25

What I feared has come upon me;
what I dreaded has happened to me.

AntiChristian:

So these ones below are lies and contradictions?
See wetin Hannah talk in 1 Samuel 2:6-7
The LORD brings death and gives life; He brings down to the grave and raises up. The LORD sends poverty and wealth; He humbles and He exalts

Deuteronomy 32:39 God talk am
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Job 5:18 Job talk am
For He (God) wounds, but He (God) also binds; He (God) strikes, but His hands also heal.

Answer who killed Deborah na!

How is that contradiction. God brings death and life. U choose, U pick your choice.
Deborah was denied the right to choose by savage Muslims. They choose for her...that's MURDER, ALLAH WILL PUNISH SEVERELY THOSE WHO BECAME GOD UNTO THEMSELVES AND THEN CHOOSE WHO TO DIE.

AntiChristian:


See wetin Hannah talk in 1 Samuel 2:6-7
The LORD brings death and gives life; He brings down to the grave and raises up. The LORD sends poverty and wealth; He humbles and He exalts

Deuteronomy 32:39 God talk am
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Job 5:18 Job talk am
For He (God) wounds, but He (God) also binds; He (God) strikes, but His hands also heal.

So who killed Deborah again?

Deuteronomy 30
19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

If the owner of life gave a choice on life and death; I don't understand why Muslims would then kill Deborah because they think she deserves death.

@ op
Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God.
It's not even about Trinity. Not believing in a triune God simply shows u don't have a full understanding of who God is, which is fine. That doesn't make u automatically an unbeliever.

But the God of Muslims can't be the God in the bible because Allah told Muslims to bow to a sacred stone when worshipping him.
This is something God hates.

Deuteronomy 16
21 Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the Lord your God, 22 and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates.

Allah told Muslims to face the direction of a black stone whenever they want to pray to him. Allah also told them to visit the stone and circumambulate it every year and then bow to it. Allah also to the Muslims it's ok to kiss this black stone for whatever reason.
This is nothing but pure paganism and idolatry.

God will never sanction something he hates. God cannot tell Moses not to build or associate a sacred stone in his name BUT yet tells another prophet 2000 years later to associate a sacred stone to his name.

God never changes his mind. He's an unchangeable changer.

God will never tell anybody to bow to a stone in the process of worshiping him.
It's nothing but pure idolatry.


The book of Christians and Muslims cannot be correct the same time. One of them must be lying.
Either Muhammed or Moses lied.
I leave u to find the truth on who is the LIAR.