₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Which work of Iranaeus is this?

And how does the bible passage indicate it was Greek that was being spoken and not Aramaic the common tongue of that area at the time?

Now when I say I want evidence what I sent u is how I want it.
Real solid evidence, not your opinion.
If u claim a source bring it here, do the work and bring the link here.
Otherwise I will simply ignore it.

So Jesus will travel to Greece and start speaking Aramaic to Greeks !!!!
So Jesus will travel to other Roman province and teach in Aramaic !!!!

Pls allow me to borrow your bwaaaaahhh, me too I want to laff.

Maynman:
this has already been thrashed na, Yahweh worshipper...
Cc lordreed.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1672.htm

Let me ask u a question?
Why are gentiles called the Greek.
The Phoenician woman was called Greek, why?
Why do Jews call gentiles Greek?

LordReed:
Good. So the book of Daniel wasn't written by Daniel and is in the Christian canon. Tell me the difference.

Were the two books compiled by same people.
Was the tanakh compiled by the church fathers.
U see why I said we going in circle or u just want to argue.

LordReed:
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You are the waffler here. I produced the evidence for my claims and now you want to run away. You mentioned church fathers but refused to quote any of their works meanwhile I quoted a church father and gave you the book and chapter so yeah buddy you are waffling big time.

You are the one making the claim that the Apostles and Jesus knew Greek so give us the evidence.

Did I say it was being forced on me? LoLz. You just say things I never said and attribute it to me.

After all your puffed up boasting look at you waffling harder than a waffle iron. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

whats triggering the Lagta

Anyway u ask for evidence....

From Iranaeus

LordReed:
And for the umpteenth time it's you Christians business since you guys included it in your canon. If you are including books which you cannot defend their providence then that's on you not the person pointing out your inconsistency.



Who were the others who worshipped Yahweh and how can we know that it was the Israelites who got it right?



Good so I have no reason to believe any of the miraculous or fantabolous aspects of the stories since they have no collaboration from any other source especially the ones that would have left copious amounts of evidence but we can find none.



Learn the difference between myth and legend. David is considered legendary not mythical, same way King Arthur is considered legendary, there may have been a much beloved figure around who fantastic stories coalesced. Discovering a record of there being a house of David does not confer automatic credence to all the stories about David.



Because the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE but purports to cover events of the 6th century BCE. It wasn't listed in the prophetic section of Tanakh and some versions of it don't have it at all! So based on what criteria was Daniel added to the Christian Bible?



LoLz. See the point above.



Was there? What was his name and which historical evidence confirms it.

See my previous response about pavid.



Of the people you mentioned only Polycarp, Papias and Marcion where born in the first century. Marcion was denounced by Irenaeus and Tertullian. Irenaeus even says that Polycarp called Marcion the first born of Satan. This is the kind of situation you want to use to defend how these books were canonised? LoLz.



Another anonymous work. LoLz.



Name the works where these people confirmed the authorship of these books.



LoLz. We know about Celsus through Origen a Christian criticising Celsus so how do we know he didn't manipulate Celsus' words to make them says what he wants them to say?



You brought up Papias. The one thing Papias said bout Matthew was that it was written in HEBREW so where did you get that the Apostles, apart from Paul who was learned, wrote and spoke Greek?



It doesn't matter who those authors are because nobody is trying to convince the world that these are works decribing supernatural events that we must believe for our salvation. That is a massive difference in how you'd want me to approach them. If you didn't care if I believed the Bible then we would have very little to disagree on but because you want me to hinge my life on these books you bet that the scrutiny will be much different.



It is taken from The Church History of Eusebius. Eccl. 3.39



I am saying that all of it is suspect because they injected too many fantabolous things to be real. Just look at what was attributed to Papias on Judas Iscariot:
Judas did not die by hanging[55] but lived on, having been cut down before he choked to death. Indeed, the Acts of the Apostles makes this clear: "Falling headlong he burst open in the middle and his intestines spilled out."[56] Papias, the disciple of John, recounts this more clearly in the fourth book of the Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord, as follows: "Judas was a terrible, walking example of ungodliness in this world, his flesh so bloated that he was not able to pass through a place where a wagon passes easily, not even his bloated head by itself. For his eyelids, they say, were so swollen that he could not see the light at all, and his eyes could not be seen, even by a doctor using an optical instrument, so far had they sunk below the outer surface. His genitals appeared more loathsome and larger than anyone else's, and when he relieved himself there passed through it pus and worms from every part of his body, much to his shame. After much agony and punishment, they say, he finally died in his own place, and because of the stench the area is deserted and uninhabitable even now; in fact, to this day one cannot pass that place without holding one's nose, so great was the discharge from his body, and so far did it spread over the ground."

How can anybody read this given what we know of human anatomy and believe it?



See my response about the book of Daniel. What is the difference between that book and the Gospel of Peter?



Then neither does your opinion count nor have you provided ANY evidence while I have tried to back up what I am saying with quotes from the very things you claim support you. Any claim that I have made that you think I have not supported with evidence, list it and I will provide the evidence.

I want evidence the apostles can't speak or read Greek
Thank u.
I will ignore the rest. It's just a case of merry go round now- waffling and recycling stale points.
U ve made your point, i dont really see much sense in it.
And nobody force the bible or Christianity on u, I think u mistaking it for another religion.

LordReed:
How do you know?

because it was written in the 2nd century.

Maynman:
So Yorubas now describe their God in Wikipedia screenshot?
Abi is that not what you posted for Lordreed?

See the mother of your creator.

Show me the written record where Yoruba people described their deity.

LordReed:
Attribution is not authorship.

Dont u get it, Peter had nothing to do with the gospel of Peter.
He never knew such gospel existed.

Maynman:
To help you also, this is how Jews described their god/Yahweh.
Abi Wikipedia is no more correct?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

So Jews now describe their God in Wikipedia screenshot.
Seriously I do t really know what to do with u.
U live on attention, I think it's time I starve info that thing u crave.

Maynman:
How did they take Independence from them in that verse
You said nothing, Chemosh defeated your god, Yahweh.
When was 2kings written?
When was mesha Witten?

Did mesha continue to pay tribute to the Israelites king after 2 kings 3?

I really don't understand your gloating. If we see the stone of Philistines, it will also declare similar things...isn't it.
Israelites did not always win their battle. In fact they lost more than they won if we are to go by records.

LordReed:
Oga when you start paying me you can demand I respond in less than 1 sec. LoLz.

Show where I said Gospel of Peter was written by Peter.

I don't know that church fathers confirmed the authorship of the 4 gospels. That is still up for debate.

When I am ready to teach you, you will learn.

Gospel letters are attributed to the primary source. If it says gospel of Peter's, it's assumed Peter contributed one way or another.

Maynman:
Shameless liar, mention the verses where mobiates their arch enemy was taking independence from them.

The Israelites worshipped chemosh, so what are you barking about?

Chemosh defeated your creator, Yahweh and destroyed his shrine, where is that mention in the Jewish book?
Just like Yahweh, chemosh too was given burnt offering and he accepted both man and animals.

Isrealites themselves are cannities, worshipping the head of the Cannanites god before they were taken as slave to Babylon and influence of zoostranism.

You may also want to study the kurtillet Arjud, where your creator has a wife and is lesser to his father, El.

Read 2 kings 3. The whole story is there....


4 Now Mesha king of Moab raised sheep, and he had to pay the king of Israel a tribute of a hundred thousand lambs and the wool of a hundred thousand rams. 5 But after Ahab died, the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel.


27 Then Mesha took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land


The passage even confirmed the name of the king that got independence for Moab as Mesha as written on the stone.

In fact 2 kings 3 and Mesha Inscription, describe the same event, the revolt of Mesha.

Read this link that was able to correlate and confirm actual events by studying both works.

https://biblearchaeology.org/research/divided-kingdom/3437-mesha-king-of-moab

LordReed:
LoLz. Always having his tips in a squeeze because I don't respond immediately as if he is paying me to do it.

Indeed! More than 24 hrs and multiple presence here yet no response to my last night rebuttal.
Anyway, not necessary to respond. B4 u make further gaffes and complicate everything.

I just hope u won't brandish gospel of Peter as written by st peter anymore.
and
U now know the early church fathers who confirmed the authorship of the 4 gospels.

We learn everyday, unfortunately I learnt nothing from u.
Bye.

LordReed:
What part of this was hard for you to comprehend?

Secondary thinking I'm attempt to cover your earlier gaff.
Compare below with above and summarise for me.

Maynman:
Apart from the Jewish people who else was worshipping the isrealite god in old testament?

Chemosh conquered your isrealite god in mesha Stele.

The bible records moabites obtaining independence over Israel. So what are u bleating about?
There's nothing on the moabite stone not recorded in 2 kings 3.
As per LordReed, the mesha stone dated 870BC is another historical evidence of the old testament...what u call myths and legends. Prior to its discovery king omri was a myth.
U may also want to study Tel Dal Steele, another ancient inscription from the Canaanites.

Maynman:
Mention the verses.
https://www.thetorah.com/article/who-was-balaams-god-yhwh-el-or-bull-el

Do u own home work. Some of us have real lives we attend to

Maynman:
I wonder where the region of ALL this people, why is yahweh fighting with other local gods?

What about the Celtics, the Greeks? The Romans? Ethiopians?

Have u checked the new testament for other wider regions.

The history of the Jews will only write about people they have contact with, isn't it.

Maynman:
Apart from the Jewish people who else was worshipping the isrealites in old testament?

People of nenevih
People of land of uz- job and his friends
Moabites- Ruth
Hittites
Cannanites
Arameans- Naman
Samaritans
Balaam the priest from mesopotamian region.

Maynman:
Check mesha Stele, He conquered your god, Yahweh.

Mesha stele didn't say chemosh is a universal god.
Show me where chemosh is worshipped as a universal God otherwise keep quite.

LordReed:
This is a silly argument. There is a god of thunder in Yoruba mythology and there is a god of thunder in Norse mythology therefore the god of thunder is real. It is just patently silly since that is not how any of it works, having in similarities in mythology is no proof of the reality of those myths.

And trust you to miss the point of my statement. It doesn't matter what the myths are called, they are simply replacing one myth with another they have not shown that any of it is real.

Who cares what theological interpretation you give your favourite Jewish myth, theological interpretations are a dime a dozen. The fact is, your theological interpretation is based on the Jewish myth.

Dude I did not agree that your Jewish god myth and other culture god myths are the same. I said they are all myths, don't put words in my mouth. Twisting what mouth abi it is you trying too hard to twist my words and failing woefully.

Of course the god of the Jews is different, they are different myths!

Which is which my friend, be consistent.
Why didn't ajayi crowther give a different name to the God of the Jews when writing the yoruba bible.

Maynman:
He is coming to answer you, calm your balls.

Of course, in the Moabites Scriptures, the Moabs are the chosen one and he created everything.
Just like the Greeks have their creator gods and they are the chosen ones, latins have theirs, Celtics have theirs, Yorubas have theirs and also the Jewish people also have it.
In the Jewish book, the god will be showed to be powerful and conquering other gods.

When Nebuchadnezzar II conquered he thank his god, Marduk, Cyrus the great also thanked his god, Ahuda.

Show me where chemosh is called a universal God.

Maynman:
Lordreed is coming to answer you.

Is the God of the Moabs also the supreme God in other cultures.
Don't forget chemosh defeated your god Yahweh as recorded in mesha Stele.

LordReed that's yet to respond to my rebuttal last night.
Once he meets superior arguments he gas out. He appears to be intelligent but he's not. He's just another wannabe.
The problem with nairaland atheist is that they think because they are educated and read some books, then they are intelligent.
Well the report card is coming out and doesn't look so good.

As for chemosh, did he ever say he was a universal supreme deity. Was he ever worshipped in such manner anywhere including in Moabites.
God called himself a universal God. He rejected being a regional God. That was why he sent Jonah to nenevih.

Maynman:
Otondo atheist.

Help your confused atheist, seems he's gassed out again.

Is the God of the Jews also the supreme God in other cultures.

LordReed:
They are all myths so interchanging one name for another makes no difference.

To help u answer your question here's how Yoruba described Olorun/Eledumare.

LordReed:
They are all myths so interchanging one name for another makes no difference.

Really...lolz
now it makes no difference when u realised the Supreme God is the same everywhere.
Earlier u insisted Jewish God deity is different from that of other cultures and I'm following the former.

As u guys can see this is the big problem with atheist argument. It's filled with inconsistency. They work from answer to question, from conclusion to inference. If they get stuck along the way, the simply twist the inference to arrive at the same conclusion. Thereby making inconsistent claim along the way.

Right from onset of this debate, I've made it clear that the theological interpretation of the old testament is different from it's history.
I'm not accountable to the history because I'm not a Jew, but accountable to the God in the old testament because he's a UNIVERSAL GOD not just the God of the Jews. He's God of the yorubas as well as any African culture.
LordReed disagreed and insisted the myth and God are the same and are of Jewish origin.

Now that's he's been slapped with hard facts, he is now twisting his mouth and saying it doesn't matter if the God worshipped everywhere is the same.

Again for benefit of doubt I wil ask LordReed, is the God of the Jews different from the supreme universal God in all other cultures?

Maynman:
see this hypocrite, why don't you listen to your advise and learn about your own people, maybe if you did you won't believe a Jewish man died for your sin, which of your people believed that?

This empty barrel has NEVER read anything on Yoruba mythology.
Go and look up "Iya nla". Jewish slave.

I will bury u in Yoruba belief system.
U think I'm like u.
Bible u dont know, atheism sef asking stupid questions up and down.
Asking who create non existence. Your meta physics knowledge is wack.
Tell me who created nothing?

Yoruba heritage knowledge is zero. Saying olorun had sex with oduduwa. Very dirty mind.

Maynman:
Which Yoruba mythology have you read?

I'm talking about God, stick to God. That's the debate here.

LordReed:
They are myths.

Humans came from the evolution of hominids. I don't know where life came from. I would speculate that it was some kind of progressive accumulation of complexity in carbon and nitrogen based molecules but that's my speculation not any kind of certainty. It could have been from something else I don't know.

since u dont know, then I will leave your origin of creation aside. No need debating guess work.

Now lets go back to your claim that my creation believe is hinged on Jewish history and not on other cultures.

let me ask u a question, Why did Samuel Ajayi Crowther adopted traditional Yoruba deity names, such as "Olodumare/Olorun" for "God" when translating the Bible into Yoruba.
Yorubas were already worshipping Eledumare/Olorun b4 Crowther brought forth the Yoruba bible. Why use such names.
same for chukwu in ibo. Why were those names retained in native bible.

Why didnt the writers of native bible who are theology scholars use a different name for the jewish God since according to u they are not the same deity.

Maynman:
Who created life, who created existence?
If it's eternal, then what did your god create? Did he create existence and non existence?

what does non existence mean?
how can u create non existence?

Maynman:
Where should I study it?
From ODU-ifa or where?

You are the filled of jargons, empty barrel!

I thought u interested in divinity worship. so what stops u from studying the divinity of your own people. all information is on google.
Or u just obsessed with that of the jews? I will say that's inferiority complex.
LEARN ABOUT YOUR PEOPLE. THEY ALSO HAD A WELL DEVELOPED AND SOPHISTICATED BELIEF SYSTEM. DONT BE ASHAMED OF WHO YOU ARE.
atheism is not an excuse to deny your heritage.

[quote author=Maynman post=126665424][/quote]God is life. no one gave him life.
asking who gave God life indirectly mean there was a TIME he had no life and that negates the concept of eternal. DO U GET IT NOW.
God created all existence in physical reality including those with life.

Maynman:
Everything comes from Iya nla aka oduduwa.
Everything is symbolic, olorun literally means heaven, visible sky, oduduwa is earth, when they both had sex(raining), olorun impregnates her with creation.

pls go and study Yoruba pantheon.
what u saying here is rubbish, better still just keep shut.