₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Is it not you who makes a fuss about abrogation?

Al-Lawh Al-Mahfuz is Allah's record about all he has created and will happen.


Produce a statement from the Quran which says the black stone forgives sins.

But u Muslims bow before the black stone?
Do u guys bow before the black stone during worship?
Who instructed you to do that... Muhammad or Allah.

Explore2xmore:
Does this seem plausible to you?
Is the ʿUthmānic Codex the first compilation?
Was it compiled without reference to the compilation done by Abu Bakr?
Was the Uthmanic codex a result of the death of those who had memorized the Quran?

Do not confuse Abu Bakr's compilation with that of Uthman may Allah be pleased with both of them.

Abu bakr simply authorised the Koran to be written and compiled into a book after lots of the known reciters were being killed in the endless Muslim wars.
Other companions were allowed to write their own Koran or recite it the way the learnt it.

Uthman was the one who standardised the Koran, then gave order that Koran of other companions or reciters be burnt all over the caliphate. Including those who learnt directly from Muhammed himself.

Uthman gave u the Koran u have today. It definitely wasnt the Koran Muhammed dictated.

honesttalk21:
I advice you look for the arabic text of this hadith then review the translation into English with what you have.
How can you say no one new these verses? He wanted a written copy of this to fulfil standards of authenticity.

No one knew the whole of the Koran as at the time the uthmanic koranic codex was compiled
It was simply a guess work...trial and error.


It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an'. How does he know what all of it is when much of the Qur'an has disappeared? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'" (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

Explore2xmore:
Interesting. What is the value of Muslim and Buhari in comparison to the Quran Mushaf?
These are collections and in honesty what you have written in English language isn't holistic transmission of what is said in Arabic.

Khuzaima ra was not the only one to have memorized the verses in question, other Companions also knew it and the forenamed was unique only in having it written with him as done in the presence of the Prophet.

Read it slowly. Thabat was collecting the Quranic verses from people who wrote it down AND those who knew it by heart.
He wasn't corroborating what was known by heart with what was written. He was simply compiling available evidence both written and memorized.
No one knew the last verse of Surat at- tauba except one person. It doesn't say if khuzaima knew it by heart or had it written.

So I started looking for the Qur'an and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, till I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol.6, p.478)

I warned u earlier that the way u critic the bible will only leave your own Qur'an vulnerable.
It's obvious u sweating to defend your Koran here, and the truth is the more we dig deeper, the messier it becomes.
I have not even brought up my killer evidence.

Next time be careful. U don't have that privilege to criticize the bible like atheist or Jews.

Explore2xmore:
It is interesting you even refer to As-Suyuti. How many centuries after Muhammad pbuh did he come into being? Do you say there were no documented Quran before this?

What did other members of those who copiled the Quran say?
It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar

Who reports in a chain from 4 persons?
If I tell you I heard from D that C says that B says A said something how will you perceive the accuracy of what is said?

Al-Ash'ari, known for his expertise in Quranic recitation, scrutinized each verse, ensuring its conformity to the original revelation received by the Prophet Muhammad. His meticulous efforts not only eliminated any discrepancies but also enhanced the authenticity of the Quran.

I just love Muslims. They can throw anything and anybody under the bus once it doesn't fit into their narrative.
It doesn't matter, be it tafsir, hadiths - sahih or not, scholars, muhammed's companion, his wives including Aisha.
Once u use them as evidence against a Muslim, be rest assured the book or person is going under the bus.
Even Muhammed himself is not spared from this modern day Muslims apologetics.
I've seen a Muslim throw his prophet under the bus because it was written in sahih Al Bukhari Muhammed was seen naked in public.
He quickly said Muhammed wasn't a righteous man.

They can't throw the Koran under the bus, so they hide under Arabic translation. U begin to hear 'Arabic is the most complex language in the world with multiple deep meanings'. Of course, this allows them translate the Koran to suit their narrative.

Seriously I envy Muslims. They can never be caught lying, it's the book or the companion who is lying.

Now he's asking me the year the tafsir was written. Tell us what year the sahih Al Bukhari and sahih Muslim were written.

I'm still coming to prove to u Zaid Thabat was a fraud amusing one of Muhammad's companion as evidence.

Explore2xmore:
You present hearsay about some verses which doesn't amount to proof.

Zaid bin Thabbit did not forget those verses of At-Tauba but needed someone to testify that he had previously written this in front of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

So who should I believe? U or sahih Al Bukhari?
Show me in your texts where it says Zaid knew all the Koranic verse at heart or knew the whole Surah at- tauba.

Don't worry I'm coming to use one of Muhammad's companion to prove to u that Zaid Thabat is a fraud.
After that no more...we done.

Not nice to derail a thread.

Explore2xmore:
It is a fact that the compilation of the Mushaf was not left to one person but a committee therefore whatever a member may have forgotten will have been remembered by another.

Zaid ibn Thabit, a trusted companion of Prophet Muhammad, played a pivotal role in the compilation of the Quran. His meticulous memory and vast knowledge of Quranic verses were crucial in preserving the sacred text.
His commitment to authenticity was paramount, as any alteration would compromise the Quran's integrity. His association with Prophet Muhammad further solidified the belief that the compiled version was an accurate representation of the original revelation.

Of course, deny it once your own book becomes evidence against u. Question it's authenticity or the chain of narration.
Asking me what year the book was written...
Why don't u tell me what year sahih Muslim and sahih Al Bukhari were written.
How many centuries (not even yrs) after the death of Muhammad were they compiled.

Explore2xmore:
It is a fact that the compilation of the Mushaf was not left to one person but a committee therefore whatever a member may have forgotten will have been remembered by another.

Zaid ibn Thabit, a trusted companion of Prophet Muhammad, played a pivotal role in the compilation of the Quran. His meticulous memory and vast knowledge of Quranic verses were crucial in preserving the sacred text.
His commitment to authenticity was paramount, as any alteration would compromise the Quran's integrity. His association with Prophet Muhammad further solidified the belief that the compiled version was an accurate representation of the original revelation.

This done talk finish now.
Mr Man, go and pull out that verse I quote from your modern day koran. The verse about son and adam and seven Valleys. If it's not there, what happend to it.
The early companions recited it so where don't u guys recite it anymore.

See the polishing he did for Zaid thabit. U claim his vast memory of the Koran is exemplary but had to travel the end of the earth to find the only person who knew the last verse of Surah at-Tauba

So I started looking for the Qur'an and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, till I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol.6, p.478)

So where then is the authenticity of that verse, where is the chain of narration of that verse if only one person knew it when the Koran was compiled?

Explore2xmore:
The writing style and vocabulary of 2 Peter are vastly different from that of Peter's acknowledged letters. The Greek used in this epistle is more polished and sophisticated, suggesting a later date and a different author. Additionally, the content of 2 Peter reflects a more developed Christian theology, which is unlikely to have been present in Peter's lifetime.

Ok let's destroy each one after the other. No real evidence, just opinion and conjecture up and down.

It's actually 1st Peter that's more polished, cultured writing with good Greek vocabulary. 2nd Peter is quite crude, repetitive and rough.
U just need to read both to know which could have been literally written by a rugged fisherman.

The answer to the difference in textual variance is in 1 Peter 5.12

[b]With the help of Silas, whom I regard as a faithful brother, I have written to you briefly, encouraging you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Stand fast in it.[/b]

Peter wrote 1 Peter with the help of a secretary- reason why it's polished and well cultured, but most likely wrote 2 peter himself in a hurry.
Some of Paul's letters were also written by his secretary. The gospel of Mark was peter's account of the gospel written down by John Mark.

Explore2xmore:
Perharps you can bring the Quran of old for critical comparison with what is available perharps you can show substantial difference if at all in the meaning of the message.
Keep repeating the missionary apologetics that know not what they say.

There is, in fact, a virtually unanimous opinion among the early historians that the Qur'an, as it stands, is incomplete.

Abdullah ibn Umar, in the earliest days of Islam, was quite emphatic about this:

It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an'. How does he know what all of it is when much of the Qur'an has disappeared? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'" (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

FYI, Abdullah bin Umar was a companion of your prophet Muhammad and a son of the second Caliph Umar.

Another one....

This is from Abu Musa al-Ash'ari, one of the early authorities on the Qur'an text and a companion of Muhammad....

We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Sura) Bara’at (sura 9). I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust” ... (Sahih Muslim: bk. 5, no. 2286)

This is from a sahih hadith.

Now show me this missing verse from the modern day Koran since u say the text u have today is the same recited by Muhammed.

Explore2xmore:
https://readingacts.com/2018/03/18/2-peter-and-pseudepigraphy-2/

As J. N. D. Kelly said in 1969, “scarcely anyone nowadays doubts that 2 Peter is pseudonymous

Further evidence Peter agreed with Paul's teaching can be found in Acts 15 at the council of Jerusalem.


Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.

Explore2xmore:
https://readingacts.com/2018/03/18/2-peter-and-pseudepigraphy-2/

As J. N. D. Kelly said in 1969, “scarcely anyone nowadays doubts that 2 Peter is pseudonymous

See the evidence produced by the article u presented for Pseudepigrapha.
Mainly Conjecture, assumptions, opinion. So much for scholastic work.

Anyway I equally highlighted evidence of the authenticity of peter's authorship in the same article.
Not sure if a rebuttal is needed.

Zyxsc:
I'm a software engineer working remotely from Nigeria. I earn a 7-figure monthly salary.
With my salary only (at an average exchange rate of 850/$), it would take me about 6.6 years to save up 100 million, provided I have zero dependents and had to cater only for myself throughout those years. It's quite a naive way to project this though because a lot of things can happen along those years. But it still gives an idealistic comparison base.

So my question goes to Nigerians currently living or have lived abroad. Can you tell us the country, the job title, and how long it would take to save up to NGN100 milliion, assuming you have zero dependents and have to cater for only yourself. Do remember to factor in taxes if any and other living expenses for yourself alone

The reason for my question is not far-fetched. I'm just wondering if it's worth it to sell ones' properties worth milliions just to JAPA and go start over again. Please, refrain from dragging the country's situation into your answer or any other reason to JAPA. Kindly focus on answering the question as best as possible.

Thanks.

If u truly a software engineer making 7 figures per month working online, then u don't need to sell your property to Japa.
Just good CV in linkedin a d sell yourself hard will d it for u.
U can easily earn over 130k within 1-3 yrs abroad.

Listen to this naija girl in USA working on your field earning close to 500k/yr (bonus and stocks inclusive)
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvaF19lLvai/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

I don't believe u earn over a million in naija, u way too ignorant as evidenced by your comment. Imagine a software engineer saying he needs to sell his house to relocate!!!
U either a troll or one of those anti-japa crew.

Explore2xmore:
Sorry Christians: Our Bible Contains Fake Letters From Paul (And Peter)


BOTTOM LINE: Your Bible is chock-full of pseudepigrapha.

U have to provide evidence of Pseudepigrapha otherwise u making junk claims.
Your atheist methodological approach of bible criticism will only expose the Koran and sink it.

because we all know the Koran u have today is not the one recited by Muhammed or his companions.

Explore2xmore:
More likely you.
Can you present a copy of this write up of 2 Peter 3.15-16 before Paul's association with the apostles?

Have u checked what your tafsirs say about Al samiri?
Or u already given up on the glaring blunder.

Explore2xmore:
The Pseudepigrapha presents challenges to the genuity of the New Testament by raising doubts about the authenticity and authorship of the biblical texts. Their existence showcases the practice of attributing writings to well-known biblical figures to enhance credibility, challenges the notion of a unified and consistent New Testament canon, and highlights the limitations of relying solely on the Bible as a historical document.

P.S I don't have Dawah scripts.

Ok no problem, we leave biblical texts out as primary evidence.
Have u read about apostolic fathers,
also read Didache and the ode of Solomon.
I'm ready to cure u of your ignorance by educating u on 1st century Christianity where it all began.
What did they believe, did they know about trinity. Did they believe Jesus is God.

I already did this with an atheist and a so called Jew on this forum. I would have referred u to my posts on the topic but it won't really benefit u since u are a Muslim.
They argued from the angle of Jesus never existed.

Your own angle is Paul was a fraud. I already debunked it outrightly but willing to do more.

Explore2xmore:
More likely you.
Can you present a copy of this write up of 2 Peter 3.15-16 before Paul's association with the apostles?

2nd Peter was written very late into Peter's life, the letter was more like a farewell message.

I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
2 Peter 1.13-14

Peter already knew Paul at the time he wrote it. U can't unknown what's already known. U simply desperately clutching at straws.

As usual, u changing goal post again- typical of apologetic Muslims.
U came her and argued the disciples disagreed with Paul, I showed u evidence they agreed with him. Now u asking for letters disciples wrote b4 they met Paul.

Ok here is Peter said about Jesus b4 he met Paul. Do u agree with him.

15 “But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, [b]the Son of the living God.”
[/b] Matthew 16.15-16

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Messiah.”

Acts 2.32-36

Now do u believe the those words of Peter, the disciple of our LORD; or it's Paul he hasn't met that poured those sayings this unto his head via futuristic Bluetooth.

Explore2xmore:
As-Samiri is not limited to one meaning.

This is the problem with Islam. Ask one question regarding blunders in the Koran and u get 20 different answers. No consensus. Every muslim trying to force the truth into the Koran thereby creating more confusion
We had this argument with LegalWolf sometime ago re Al samiri. He actually said Al samiri is a samaritan but argued the name has no link to Samaria.
Now u here claiming Al samiri is the name of an Egyptian and not a samaritan.
Is like different koranic schools teach from different material. Ok have u checked the tafsir on origin of Al samiri? What does it say?

[quote author=Explore2xmore post=125674520]The likely falsification of your belief is what you should be wary of.


Deviations from the pure doctrines of Jesus and all prophets before him started with Paul, who never met Jesus. Paul was the first to claim the Godhead and divine sonship of Jesus, as well as his resurrection. Yet, the disciples and the early Christian generations were unitarians. They resisted the efforts of Paul and his followers to change both the faith and law of Moses and Jesus, and, later, many of them were tortured and killed for holding to their faith.

Trinity was imposed for the first time, as an official creed of the Roman Empire, by Emperor Theodosius in the year 381 AC. The motive was mainly political, to save the Roman Empire by putting an end to the split between the Unitarian Christians and the Trinitarians, a split that persisted even after the Council of Nicea in 325 AC adopted the Pauline doctrines deifying Jesus as son of God.

Trinity, subsequently endorsed by the Council of Constantinople in 381 AC, attracted those who found in it a compromise between their original pagan beliefs and Christianity. Trinity was an invention of Athnasius of Alexandria in the 4th century after Jesus departure.

You obviously don't know what u talking about. U just regurgitating a clear dawah script.
I'm happy to enlighten u if u willing to learn. I will take u back to the 1st century AD where it all began.
But first learn about the apostolic fathers and make sure u read the book of acts thoroughly.

Finally I leave u with this from Peter, the disciple of our Lord about Paul.

2 Peter 3.15-16

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 Paul writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

It's safe to say Muslims are amongst the ignorant and unstable that distort Paul's word according to Peter.

Explore2xmore:
Myopic reasoning

@RoyalDiadems
@advocatejare
@JudgeWilson
@MightySparrow
@SIRTee15

Anything to absolve the false prophet from his blunders.
What do Arabs call Samaritans? What's the Arabic name for samaritans.

Ohyoudidnt:
2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie


Is this not God categorically sending them delusions according to the Bible?

I'm not ready to continue this argument with u. seems u are fixated to your own theories which is incongruent to my argument here.
where did I say Christians don't face trials or tribulation. where did I say Christianity is a bed of roses.
I said evils do not proceed from God. But yes he allows it to happen to even his elects to test our faith and strengthen our conviction in him.

The argument here remains does evil come form God. Did God create evil things.

regarding 2Thes 2.11, I think we just doing merry go round now. picking verses up and down without understanding the context.

Here is the message translation of the verse, it explains it better ....
And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want.

Now, link it to how God hardened pharaoh's heart in the book of exodus. Therein lies your answer.

Ohyoudidnt:
You are right. I however don't have a problem.

Q2:45And seek help in patience and As-Salat (the prayer) and truly it is extremely heavy and hard except for Al-Khashi’un [i.e. the true believers in Allah – those who obey Allah with full submission, fear much from His Punishment, and believe in His Promise (Paradise, etc.) and in His Warnings (Hell, etc.)].

2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Sure you will defend why this occurs? If there's nothing contrary coming from your God why then does he do this and make them believe a lie?

God deliberately wants them deceived?

Quran 4:78
Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you even if you are in fortresses built up strong and high!” And if some good reaches them, they say, “This is from Allah,” but if some evil befalls them, they say, “This is from you (O Muhammad SAW).” Say: “All things are from Allah,” so what is wrong with these people that they fail to understand any word?

Quran 29:2
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying ‘We believe’ and that they will not be tested?

Quran 2:154-157
And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return

Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.


To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness has Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward. (Quran 5:9)

Those who believe, and work righteousness, their Lord will guide them because of their faith, beneath them will flow rivers in gardens of bliss. (Quran 10:9)

No authority has he (i.e. Shaitaan) over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord. (Quran 16:99)

As to those who believe and work righteousness, verily We shall not suffer to perish the reward of any who do a (single) righteous deed. (Quran 18:30)

I'm not interested in your sermon, save it for your members in your mosque.
explain the obvious contradiction in the koran. You've been arguing here for days that evil proceed from Allah using various koranic verses but this specific verse denies u.

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself. But what has come to these people. That they fail to understand a single fact
Quran 4:79

Here Allah is saying evil is not from him. I want u to explain that verse.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are things on Earth not regulated? Would you prefer permanent daylight or night?

You tend not to appreciate the balance in the
duality of sets of two opposing and complementing occurences.

Does anything exist that wasn't created? Do you believe these created themselves or evolved on their own?

Did Allah not know there will be mischief makers amongst mankind?
The presence and absence is only by Allah's leave and will.

I have investigated and now know where your problem is coming from.
As usual, the Koran which is a book of contradiction has done it again....and that's why it's followers cannot explain where evil comes from.


Does evil come from Allah?

Yes

.... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....
Quran 4:78

Does evil come from Allah

No

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself. But what has come to these people. That they fail to understand a single fact
Quran 4:79

So Ohyoudidnt above is the reason u want to extrapolate koranic teaching into the bible by fire by force.

Ok tell us Does evil come from Allah?

Antiochus:
https://www.channelstv.com/2023/09/07/us-announces-1bn-aid-to-ukraine-as-russian-strike-kills-at-least-17/

But this zelensky sef. What's his end game to this conflict. Will he continue to depend on foreign aid to fight a might enemy like Russia.
I hope he's aware republican will likely win next year presidential election in the US, and the last thing on trump's mind is the Ukrainian conflict. He will not send a kobo.

So what happens to Ukraine? without massive usa armoury support, they have zero chance against Russia.
Zelensky should use his brain and either cut a deal with Russia or change the approach of the conflict. This face to face battle isn't working for Ukraine.

Zelensky USE YOUR GOD GIVEN BRAIN FOR ONCE AND SAVE YOUR NATION.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are things on Earth not regulated? Would you prefer permanent daylight or night?

You tend not to appreciate the balance in the
duality of sets of two opposing and complementing occurences.

Does anything exist that wasn't created? Do you believe these created themselves or evolved on their own?

Did Allah not know there will be mischief makers amongst mankind?
The presence and absence is only by Allah's leave and will.

How does drought complement rainfall or how does drought complement flooding
How does drought regulates the energy or season of the earth.

Are u saying there must be drought- for the earth to be regulated.
It's like u mixing drought with dry season.
Pls check definition of terminology b4 using it.

Ohyoudidnt:
Interesting that you make reference to contextual applications; how come those who antagonize Arabic in Islamic text don't remember this?

In Amos 5:15 after numerous verses stating punishment and retribution doesn't there exist Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

Do you now see the connection I try to explain?
Often times most of mankind forgets the almighty until some distress or calamity befalls them? Could this be a way to remind and draw back mankind to righteousness?

In Amos 4:7 reads And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.

Does this not show how God blesses and reduces from his creation as he wishes?
Is the withholding of blessing not seen by those who suffer it as evil or distress? Who controls or permits this?
Check Quran 3:26

I think we are on a different tangent entirely.
The focus of my argument is does God create evil? Can he create evil? Does evil proceed from him
I guess I will include logic to my argument to give u better understanding.

Rain is not evil. Rainfall is actually a blessing created by God for fruitfulness.
There are thousands reasons why there could be drought- natural cause or man made action. If God uses drought to call attention of his people to their sinful life, that doesn't mean God created drought.

Drought is not an entity or existence on it's own Drought is absence of rainfall, absence of an existence that was created.

Rainfall was created, drought wasn't created. So u cannot say drought proceed from God because it wasn't part of creation. Do u get it now?

When God created the earth. He only created good things.
That was why he looked at his work and said this is good.


31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So God will create disease, tornado, drought, flood, earthquake, tsunami, will look at them and then say they are good!!!!
Common, don't be a dogmatic religious bigot.

It doesn't make sense for God to call bad things good.
God only made good things during in genesis 1 which is the creation story.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4.4-5

I mention the phrase ontological evil, have a look into it. It will give u a better insight to out debate. Also look into moral evil and natural evil.

Ohyoudidnt:
A little more from your Bible which may improve your understanding.

Amos 3:6

KJ21
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

ASV
Shall the trumpet be blown in a city, and the people not be afraid? shall evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it?

AMP
If a trumpet is blown in a city [warning of danger] will not the people tremble? If a disaster or misfortune occurs in a city has not the Lord caused it?

AMPC
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city and the people not be alarmed and afraid? Shall misfortune or evil occur [as punishment] and the Lord has not caused it?

BRG
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The Hebrew word for evil is rah. This word is not specific for evil but could also be used for calamity, disaster, mischief, adversity, affliction.
U have to look at the contextual application of the word evil to understand how it's used.

In Amos 3. God is declaring punishment upon the children of Israel for their iniquities.

Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Just like God visited calamity upon the Egyptians for their sin, God will do the same upon the city of Israel.

Calamity can be natural disasters, famine, flood, drought, war etc. These are are not moral evils. Lack of plenty is not moral evil, excess of rainfall is not moral evil, war is as a result of human action.

As I said earlier, moral evil doesn't proceed from God, the “evil” that is spoken of is not ontological evil, but the evil experienced by people in the form of negative consequences of nature and evil as a result human action.

God is pure and holy. Evil cannot proceed from something that's pure. Corruption cannot proceed from that which is holy. It's impossible.

“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).

Do God allows evil to happen? Yes. Can God visit evil upon mankind as punishment for sin? Yes.
This may raise other questions of why God would allow such a thing, but that's another topic entirely.

But the point here is evil do not proceed from God. He does not generate evil.

12 yr old is too young to leave alone with kids especially a kid that's unwell.
She should not be changing diaper without supervision, let alone dispose it by herself.
You have to make it clear that she's in no position to inflict any form of punishment on the kids- physical or emotional. She should instead report the kids to u.

All in all a 12 yr old is a kid, they not too matured to take on a care giver responsibility. They should even be supported to take good care of themselves.

Ohyoudidnt:
Perharps. Who created whom or what we see as the devil? I seem to get the point of Rabbi Tovia that Christianity is based on a Superman like belief who always is on time to save the day and probably prevent all disliked things. Realistically this is not for life on this earth and is impractical.

Misunderstanding the concept of God's all-powerful and all-loving nature can be challenging. Our understanding of what is considered bad is limited and subjective. Short-term negative events can sometimes lead to long-term positive outcomes such as personal growth or societal progress. Our perspectives and understanding of the world vary greatly based on individual experiences, beliefs, and values. (did the one who was distressed not repent and refrain from bad acts?)

Labeling something as universally bad fails to consider the complexity of human experiences and perspectives. Therefore, it is essential to approach situations with an open mind and a willingness to broaden our understanding, recognizing that seemingly negative circumstances can eventually lead to positive outcomes.

Furthermore, the holiness of God is the reason disobedience is regarded as a very serious sin to God. He punish disobedience severely because it's considered an affront to his authority and attempt to corrupt his very holy nature.


I noticed u ask if God created the devil...well I dont want to go into detail but just know in the bible we have what we call the soul.
This soul is responsible for its action, action that comes from his thought process and inclination.
That's how God created the soul.
We don't believe the soul is a robotic entity that's been programmed to follow that which has been downloaded into it from onset. That's Islam and not Christianity.

Talking about rabbinical Jews, they base their interpretation of the torah on the Talmud which is mostly oral traditions passed down from generation to generation. It's more like someone said that, somebody knew someone that said that..like the Muslim's hadith.
I wouldn't base my exegesis of the bible on the Talmud which is influenced by the understanding of God during the Jewish Babylonian era.

If u want to know God, the only true God. I will advise you to study the Pentateuch in the bible. Read genesis to Deuteronomy to know the very true nature of the Almighty God. Then read the book of Isaiah to get a picture of the dynamic nature of God.
I can assure u will only come to one conclusion...the God of the bible IS NOT the Allah in Koran.

Ohyoudidnt:
Perharps. Who created whom or what we see as the devil? I seem to get the point of Rabbi Tovia that Christianity is based on a Superman like belief who always is on time to save the day and probably prevent all disliked things. Realistically this is not for life on this earth and is impractical.

Misunderstanding the concept of God's all-powerful and all-loving nature can be challenging. Our understanding of what is considered bad is limited and subjective. Short-term negative events can sometimes lead to long-term positive outcomes such as personal growth or societal progress. Our perspectives and understanding of the world vary greatly based on individual experiences, beliefs, and values. (did the one who was distressed not repent and refrain from bad acts?)

Labeling something as universally bad fails to consider the complexity of human experiences and perspectives. Therefore, it is essential to approach situations with an open mind and a willingness to broaden our understanding, recognizing that seemingly negative circumstances can eventually lead to positive outcomes.

The fundamental problem I can see in your write up remain the same initial issue. The God of the bible is not the same as Allah.

U would think this is like a diatribe or scorn. But it's the truth. There's no way u will compare the 2 deity thoroughly and come to a different conclusion as mine.

The problem with Muslims is that they read the bible looking for apologetics points or weak links in the bible to discredit christianity; they dont study it to know God.

God is holy, when I mean holy...the extreme form that beyond human capacity.
If u actually read the book of Leviticus, it will give u a glimpse of his holiness.
God requires very strict and detailed requirements during sacrificial offering. Just one mistake in the process is unacceptable, the consequences could be fatal for the priest or the whole nation at large.
The aim is to ensure that what goes up to him is a pure, undiluted, uncorrupted, unalloyed sweet smelling fragrance which is pleasing unto him.

When God descended to meet the Israelites in mount Sinai. He told them not to touch the mountain or they will perish. The priest who will ascend must consecrate themselves. This is God who wants to meet with his people yet will not tolerate any form of compromise with his holiness.

Read about holy of holies in exodus 28 to have better understanding of the nature of God.

When uzziah tried to prevent the ark of God from falling by touching it, (only the priest were allowed to touch the ark of God), he was killed instantly.
Even David was angry for the LORD's wrath against uzziah when he was only trying to prevent the ark from falling.
But David became afraid, the fear of the LORD's holiness came upon him and that day he knew what GOD meant by I AM HOLY.
GOD will never compromise his holiness whatever the circumstances.


Now I don't understand how such an holy God will accommodate sin, moral evil or disease. I don't get how such things can proceed from him if he's indeed holy.

There's nothing good about disease or illness. Sickness depresses the soul, destroys the body and makes the spirit fatigued.
All this talk about positive outcome is just a way for humans to cope with adversary. God cannot be holy and such impurity will proceed from him. It's just irreconcilable no matter how u look at it.

If disease proceed from God, then there's no reason why he wouldn't accept a defective or diseased animal as sacrificial offering if that's what is available.
He a very just God. He won't give stone and demand for bread neither will he give scorpion and demand for fish.

I don't think holiness is emphasized in Islam or in the Koran. I'm not sure it's a concept attributed to Allah. That's why u guys can ignorantly claim both evil and good proceed from God. it makes no sense.
If something is holy, it cannot accommodate evil.

Maynman:
Your case is critical.
The picture you posted said nothing about smoke from Food but mocking your dumb argument.
If not that you are mentally unstable you should realize that from the picture you posted lol.

We never talked on smoke from Food, there was no cooking but burning in those verses.
The chatgpt you posted only some specifics like fat and oil give smoke at certain temperature, and not all food generally.

I've been advised to leave u alone

Maynman:
Yahweh clown, read slowly.

"Smoke don't arise FROM HOTPLATE OR GAS when cooking unless na FIREWOOD"

You are mentally ill like yahweh.

Your case is beyond redemption. No be smoke from food carry us reach this level?
Ok do u now agree smoke do come from food when cooking irrespective of the source of heat.

Ohyoudidnt:
I very well am not so interested on how you define or understand God from your Bible. You are so fixated that nothing seemingly negative proceeds from God. You need to understand why these are and attest to the supremacy of Allah the only one worthy of all honour and praise.

The distressing spirit from God serves as a reminder of God's justice and the consequences of disobeying his commands. It highlights the biblical view of sin as a serious offense that requires punishment. It is not meant to be seen as God inflicting harm out of cruelty, but rather as a disciplinary measure aimed at bringing individuals back to the path of righteousness.

It is a call to align our lives with God's will and avoid the afflictions that come with disobedience.

God doesn't create moral evil, he's not responsible for it. evil doesnt proceed from the LORD. That's what my bible tells me.

“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou cannot not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).

You are good and do only good; teach me your decrees. psalm 119.68

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. James 1.13-14

The distressing spirit is obviously a mental illness. That cannot proceed from God because he is holy and illness is an infirmity, That's why there's no disease in heaven.
And the inhabitant of Zion shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. Isaiah 33.24
Also read Isaiah 65:17-25

The distressing spirit on Saul is the result of the spirit of God departing from him. Yes, God allowed it but didn't proceed from him.

Ohyoudidnt:
You haven't provided indisputable evidence that Allah commands muslims to bow to a black stone.

well pictures dont lie. I've seen muslims multiple times bowing down in front of the kabba and even licking the stone for whatever reason.
Maybe u should listen to your Allah and stop worshiping your deity in front of a stone. it's idolatry.
Until Muslims stop bowing down in front a stone when worshipping their god, Allah isnt the God of the bible.
YAHWEH forbid bowing down before a stone even if sacred. He hates it.


“‘Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God. lev 26.1

Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the Lord your God, and do not erect a sacred stone , for these the Lord your God hates. deut 16.22

God repeatedly warned Israelites not to bow to a stone or worship it. That's because worship of sacred stone is a common practice in the ancient Canaanite and middle eastern region. I guess that's where the pre-islamic arabia copied it.
God hates it and out rightly condemned it. Rather this is what God wants u to do to sacred stones.

Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces . Exodus 23.24