₦airaland Forum

Beaf:
I beg to disagree.
In a federal system, all monies don't go to the federal govt.

Military rule and its need of a rigid top down command structure have led to the bastardisation of the federal system. What the country currently runs is closer to a unitary system (best suited to tyranny's and dictatorships) than a federal system (best suited to a democracy).
Govt structures are warped in Nigeria with the federal govt responsible for everything, down to local fire services (where they exist).
The joy of the present system to the politicians is that accountability for local issues can be buried deep in formidable paperwork at federal level (where local issues become something very abstract).

In a federal system there is no such thing as derivation either, neither is there any such thing as federal character, does that stop such from being practised in Nigeria's brand of federalism? I thought what I was implying was obvious without me needing to beat anybody over the head with it.

simeipiri:
Skyblue,

You made some points here. I have always tried to avoid talking about these issues because i'm on Nairaland to do business but let me pass a word or two about this issue
If you listened to the speech by the ex-president of Ghana, he made it clear that the our leader should be accountable to us and we Nigerians haven't made them accountable to us. WHY, i would tell you the little i know
- The average Nigerian wants to go ahead with his business not minding what the government is doing
- The average Nigerian believes that someday he/she would have someone in the corridor of power be it ward councellor or President

The simple truth we don't want to change the system and that goes for majority of Nigerians.

If you want to stop corruptions its very simple, use the chinese system of capital punishment and i bet you Nigeria would be the least corrupt country in the world

Well my point, if everyone is suffering the brunt of this struggle it's becasue we all deserve it one way or the other

I don't support violence but if anyone wants to talk about criminals, they are no better ones than those in Power.

WHAT HAVE WE DONE ABOUT IT

While the whole "what have we done about it?" angle is completely valid, I have gotten bored of such statements when thrown around the way it was just done because it seems to provide detachment from the issue when people on Nairaland use it. Instead of "we", what have YOU done about it? That hits closer to home and I don't feel the need to justify it. You mentioned the "chinese sytem" of dealing with corruption. Are you willing to draft a bill proposal, send to the house and work to garner support and pursue it? Sounds less abstract than "what have we done" and really puts the ball in your court doesn't it?

Another grouse I have with the whole "what have we done about it?" again when used by Nigerians is that it rarely ever leads to action. Soemone can and very often always shouts the whole "we are to blame" routine and then goes on to do nothing about "IT", for how long will such detachment continue?

The part I highlighted in bold in your statement isn't necessarily a bad thing. I would wish friends and family in Nigeria the opportunity to be able to ignore government and go about their daily business apart from fulfilling the obligations of taxes and obeying the law for such is the ideal situation. However when you have issues like power, water, security, infrastructure, etc that government has focefully imposed itself to "handle" using the people's money without ever handling it therefore making life difficult to just "go ahead with his business", government has to be called to order. How?

Some suggestions:

people rally together and get in touch with people in the legislature and lobby for the propositions and passing of progressive laws (e.g. FOI)  and remove the ones holding the country backwards (derivation, federal character, quota system, etc)

when elections come around GO AND VOTE and protect your vote

If you think a candidate is worth voting for, argue your points out and make attempts to push for such a candidates tenure, why? So that we can have elections centred more on the issues rather than thesame old trite. I actually took time to listen to a video in which Yar Adua spoke pre election, was not impressed at all and realised no one knew anything about him if not he wouldn't have had the support which we have to admit he had (not saying there was no electoral fraud).

At the end of the day what changing things will require is well taught out plans and strategies towards development in the wider sense of the word, not false and blind bravado, kind of like having zeal without knowledge or wisdom.

Beaf:
One of MENDs stated aims is to cripple the Nigerian economy, because they believe that having nothing to divide is the only thing that will bring politicians to the table.

By crippling the economy and putting Nigeria into an even deeper recession than it has been all this while? Who would end up suffering as a result, the Federal government or ordinary Nigerians who would be facing an even higher rate of unemployment (as if that were possible) and an even more seemingly hopeless future? This is what I have been talking about with regards to MEND and their credibility. The insecurity and torment that is being inflicted on ordinary Nigerians is wasted on them, the insecurity should be inflicted on those holding Nigeria to ransom, the federal government, certain groups in the legislature that have been twiddling their thumbs instead of passing progreesive laws, etc.

Trying to cripple the economy is a silly plan because it affects EVERYBODY, it can't be helped that whatever money Nigeria obtains goes to the federal government. Sacrificing the future of poor Nigerians struggling to eke out a living in order to get to the federal government can be likened to burning a whole house in order to heat a kettle of water in the kitchen. The only effect such a tactic would inflict on those in power is pretty much along the lines of no money to buy a ferrari hence having to settle for a lexus instead, while people on the streets would be dying. Again, MEND, have you forgotten the way to Abuja? This is ludacris.

deor03:
This is some hard truth,

In as much as I do not support the arms struggle, I am beginning to understand that that is what the political class understands.

They need to feel unsecured even in the highly fortified enclaves .

This is a silent revolution, that if properly channelled will make politicians think twice before contesting for elective posts

Sure there are injustices to be considered, who would argue that? Valid points are raised and though the MEND spokesperson is saying what we all know, the issue for me has rarely been about the existence or non existence of Nigerian injustice to its citizens, the issue has been the credibility of MEND. For me they still have a lot to answer for. The simple truth is that Port Harcourt has been unsafe for quite a while now as a result of the insecurity created by MEND. Such insecurity has chased away investors that hire people in that region and as a result sent people into poverty. The insecurity also incubated a breeding ground for an explosion of vices such as kidnapping which has reached an unbearable level that has made living in the region the so called freedom fighters are fighting for that much tougher.

When businesses and investors are fleeing the region, who is losing out?
When a curfew that greatly hampered business activities in Port Harcourt was imposed who was losing?

I keep on asking when MEND will attack Abuja and by so doing, really shake up the federal goverment and show that they mean business, while potentially quickening the progress being sought in terms of correcting some of the injustices. The spokesperson said there wouldn't even be a need to attack abuja because they know where the right "switch" that sustains abuja is, why haven't they "turned off the switch" since?  Terrorising your people while hiding in the creeks and making money of oil bunkering is far from the robin hood and freedom fighter image I am supposed to swallow. People are suffering and it is not the federal government, it is ordinary Nigerians. MEND, what do you have to say about that and have you forgotten the road to Abuja?

How completely dissappointing, so Nigerians know how to riot and stage an uprising? Why is such a skill not applied when at home? Why must such a feature be a reserve to be summoned outside the country that needs it the most? So Nigerians know how to stand up for what they believe in and the country is like that? Shame!!! It would have been less shameful if Nigerians were just naturally docile.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=295273.msg4176376#msg4176376 date=1247460821]Ikomi,

Sky and Richy have both clarified it better than I could have done.  I want you to keep an open mind. 

On the Fulani Emirate and Sultanate. . .you will know that Fulani nation is spread across West Africa but its only in Northern Nigeria that they have established a dynasty.  This says much about Hausa tribe and their place in history.  Prior to Dan Fodio's Jihad, who were the Hausas and how powerful were they?  I don't want to dilute the topic with this Fulani issue and I will stop here.  Please open a separate topic on that for review. 

Turn that compass off for now. . .   


Beaf,

For a very long time history was totally in oral form. . . passed down from one generation to the other through indoctrination.  In record, the Egyptians were the first scribes and they etched hieroglyphics onto walls to communicate ideas and events.  The ten commandments is not the first written message but serve as record of a first written scripture.  That scripture contains more than just the popular ten commandments. . . it is a detailed message of communication to the Jews.  If we are looking for evidence or lack of on the slavery of the Jews by the Egyptians we must review two historical records.   The first will be a true and complete translation of hieroglyphic messages recovered so far and archived.  The second will be a complete review of the Book of Moses, in which the Ten Commanments was revealed.  As is common with scriptures, God gives a past, a current and then admonishes humanity with the coming future.  We must ask, where is The Book of Moses?   

Some of it is in the Bible and some is in the Quran.  Both talk about the enslavement and captivity of the Jews in Egypt.  The mention of names will be hard to lift because the names we know today might not be the names with which those Pharaos were known back then.  The names we know today evolved out of Roman and Latin nomenclature and pronounciations and should be expected to differ from its ancient roots which preceded the times of Ceasar. 

I agree, Scriptures should not be used as history books but the history they account for serve appropriately as the opening for us into the total human experience and relativity.  They become the authority against which to test and prove or disprove of theories and evolutionary timeline.[/quote]The part in bold is an issue that people fail to take into consideration a lot of the time. IT is like biblical names, Moses probably wasn't called moses the way we know it but when translated fromt he original hebrew names now became the moses we now pronounce the way we do. Same with a lot of other documents, people don't put it in context. Its like looking at a man who had $50,000 in the 1920s as a poor man when in reality if you factor in inflation, currency value, etc, $50,000 then was a huge sum. According to my understanding of how hieroglyphics is decoded, a pattern recognition system is used and compared with what is attainable in languages. Example, some words are more common and more generally used than others in a huge proportion of languages, some letters used to make up words are also more common, while some are used the least. Hence you can understand the complexities in actually obtaining fully accurate translations, instead what is sort is the basic gist of the matter and when you factor in the fact that there are a lot of extinct languages, then you get into even murkier and less clarified territory.

A lot of documents we see as "historical" in the English language sense of the word actually aren't word for word translation and a lot of things get lost in the process, context is lost, in some cases meanings, rhymes, cultures, metaphors, etc, are lost. @Beaf, I raise these points to highlight the fact that things aren't as open shut as you seem to propose. That is why i asked if you looked into the issue to see what and what isn't disproved. Its not just about having the "knowledge" per se, but being able to discern what to do or obtain with such knowledge.

Beaf:
There is no account (outside the Bible) of Jewish slavery in Egypt. The bible account is so flaky that the name of the Pharaoh is not given (hallmark of a fudge). Also, as you've stated; Egypt was in control of Palestine at the time. The brand spanking new land of milk and honey was Egyptian territory!

I admire your lateral thinking, you are right to point out the jumbling up of African history. The Arabs only ruled Egypt after 641AD, thats one point that usually gets overlooked (just like not a single Pharaoh has been found entombed in a pyramid).

The history of several Nigerian cultures is tied to Egypt; including parts of Edo, Urhobo, Yoruba and several others.

Keep it rolling.

?? Exactly how much research have you done on the subject to arrive at such a conclusion that there is no evidence? Though some people like to berate it the irony is that the people and even scientists the world over have on many accounts used biblical records since it chronicles many events like the different accounts of slavery and rulerships the jews have been under, etc. Considering that there have been huge leaps in methods employed by archeologists and more is now known about ancient egypt, are there any archeological finds that disprove the account of the jews being under Egyptian slavery?

Beaf:
Very good post. Tell it bro!!!
I don't agree with this, there is no evidence that Jews were ever slaves in Egypt.

The pics below should help. It's quite obvious that the people depicted are black

Biblical records. Are you not familiar with "pharoah let my people go"?

Ikomi:
I stopped reading from the area in bold as it does not agree with my knowledge of history.

You have lost quite a lot in the middle, before the area in bold.

Before the roman empire, there were the Incas, the greeks, and the monguls in the east. So you see how it does not agree with my knowledge of history.

If the Romans came out of the division of the Eyptian and Ottoman empire. So how do you explain the Incas, the greeks and monguls. I will hold it there and await an explanation, before I ask you about the saxons.

And then there was nothing like France, Britain, Spain or Portugal, Even Turkey existed before this places.

_{God bless turkish women, what beauty.} 

I didn't see where in Negro_Ntns post he claimed that the romans and co came out of the division of the egyptian and ottoman empire. He simply referred to them as sub empires meaning they weren't as powerful and weren't the dominant empires of the time. A lot of African history has been lost, even closer to home, the destruction of the Benin Kingdom by Europeans. The Europeans would want you to believe the Benin Kingdom was people swinging on trees, etc, but records prove different. West Africa had close trade ties to the portugese and their account of what the Benin Kingdom looked like is quite different, they speak of an organised city, streets, well organised rows of houses, etc. I hope this discourse can stay on point and not be derailed, nice thread Negro_Ntns, God bless. 

bigbois:
Don't care what anybody says in favour,  Yar is a DUNCE!

I agree. Now how does you saying that change anything? Did you attempt to vote? No need to answer the question but ask yourself what you have done in your own capacity to make sure things are different. Again, nairaland, na only for mouth? Why is Nigeria always trying to reap where it did not sow? The way Nigerians mouth off in frustration and anger you would be forgiven for thinking such is actually a result of frustrations arising from failed missions by groups and individuals at trying to seek and pursue ways of making things different as opposed to the following scenario: Mouthing off, doing nothing, expecting things to be different, when things remain thesame, more mouthing off. How progressive.

Beaf:
You cannot root out corruption by being uncouth. You cannot build a country by being negative.

My point is you are making all Nigerians sound like fools. There are more civilised ways to make changes than hurling insults like cowards.
The same fools screaming yarafool (like they have no fathers) are the same people who hurl their neighbour down because they can't believe the neighbour really is doing something positive.

Wow. I disagree with probably over 90% off your stand on this issue but the statement in bold is completely on point with regards to nairaland and to a much greater degree Nigeria. How many people actually attempted to vote in the last elections? What has been done in individual and group capacities to make a real change to the way things are run in Nigeria?? Na only for mouth?

Another of these threads? Do we need another to know what isn't happening in the country? What have any of you done about it, I mean we know the last election had a lot of malpractices but how many of you actually voted? Well. . . . . .? During the last general elections in France I ran into a french lady who had just gotten back from Paris, she didn't seem wealthy but had made the effort to travel to go and vote because according to her, she wanted to do her bit to "keep the fascist out of power".

In a country of over 140million people, one man and his cronies holds the whole country ransom and stifles development and you think he is the person to be shamed? Nigerians need to learn what shame is (personal view). It is indeed a country that has shown that "education" does not always mean development with its long list of professors and maestros of the English language.

I really can't wait for next elections to come, really can't so that yet again, people won't go out to vote, people won't fight to defend their vote, people won't stand to be counted and fight in their various capacities for a change in how things are run, then when we are given four more years of Yar Adua people can then come online and write articles filled with hypocritical "interllect" and "deep insights" on "what is wrong with Nigeria". Ha, the bitter irony. You do not get apples from an orange tree so just deal with what Nigerians ordered, a manifestation of innaction, lamentations without a real drive to change things, plans and no actions, inefficiency ineptitude, corruption and laziness which is wholly personofied and encapsulated in the person that is Yar Adua. When you are ready to get the upgrade, pay the price.

[quote author=OYB_MEND link=topic=292983.msg4146248#msg4146248 date=1246924280]Kobo you live in the comfort of a country where dissent is tolerated, tell me why it is criminal for anyone who thinks a particular country is not protecting its right and decides to speak up.

I think folks need to think of Nigerian issues honestly. I am not a fan of Biafra and I am certainly not Igbo but I believe most Nigerians have double standards.

When you listen to their universal choice of values about racism against Black people in the world, and women right you expect them to speak of Nigerian issues with the same set of principles. But for some reasons they seem to have a totally different set of values when it comes to Nigerian issues.[/quote]@ part in bold, aptly put and shockingly true in many instances (personal opinion). Nigeria is not only a victim of itself but a victim of its history and it is country that has refused to deal with its ghosts hence it is now being haunted by them. I find it difficult to believe that after the civil war happened, the issues that lead to it have not been addressed or spoken of openly by government. A lot of attempts have been made to sweep the issue under the carpet but there is no more space under the carpet to keep sweeping the dirt under. Now if anybody ever raises the issue they are accused of being igbo, a biafra supporter or being guilty of treason. Haven't we learnt from history? When are people ever going to practice what they preach?

If Nigeria's unravelling should occur it would be as a result of countless governments and leaders who have refused to dispose of old solutions that have failed to work in favour of more humane and innovative solutions. It would be because injustice was not addressed or dealt with and the injustice isn't an "igbo issue" as many seem to irritatingly make it so. The injustice extends to the poor, it extends to all the smaller groups inbetween who have been ignored because of the unwritten rule that seems to state that Nigeria is only made up of Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba and every arguement and consideration should take this into account. The unravelling if it comes would be because the Nigerian government failed to see Nigerians as Nigerians first and foremost. We didn't hire an hausa president (not that we hired him in the first place), but a Nigerian one.

The story makes no sense and I suspect there is much more to it. If it was a "technical landing" why on earth was there a clearing agent in Kano? Does that make sense? They dstopped to only refuel cos it was an "technical landing" but they were able to get a clearing agent on the ground before hand? Its surprising how people claiming to be enlightened aren't asking such a question. Based on what we have all analysed I really don;t buy the whole "en route to Giunea" story. Perhaps there is some airport protocol I am not familiar with in regards to cargo.

Probably related to this other project

Lagos digital mapping project nears completion


By Chris Onyeose
June 10, 2009 11:39PMT

The Lagos State government has announced that its digital mapping and Geographic Information System (GIS) project has reached 75 percent completion.


This was stated on Wednesday at his Lagos House, Alausa office, by Governor Babatunde Raji Fashola, during the second stakeholder’s forum on the project.

The governor said, “this is an infrastructure which will determine how efficiently we can clear refuse and recycle them in the state, provide good roads and water, and make us more responsive to the people’s general needs as a government.


“The road to where we have come today is a continuation from the past administration. What we are doing today, is to mark the beginning of the final step of this project,” he said.


In his address, the commissioner for Science and Technology, Kadri Obafemi Hamzat, said that the use of GIS will revolutionise the process of data acquisition, processing, storage dissemination and use of the GIS in digital format for planning and decision making.


“The Lagos State government commenced the comprehensive digital survey and mapping of the whole State which will result in the establishment of enterprise GIS, to provide various developmental activities in both the rural areas and other major towns in the state,” he said.


Mr. Hamzat also stated that the state government is putting in place, a state geo-information policy as well as establishing a Lagos enterprise GIS database backed by a policy which, he said, will eliminate most of the problems experienced by geo-information producers and users in the state.


“Let me point out that an efficient GIS and the associated state policy backed by the enactment of some necessary laws is vital for sustainable development of the state. This draft policy is being circulated today for input and comments for all stakeholders,” he added.


The commissioner stated that 310 civil servants have been trained on the technology as 50 percent of the data processing will be done locally.


Monsurudeen Durowoju, the special adviser to the governor on mapping and GIS, in his welcome address, said that the success of the project so far has been as a result of the governor’s determination and the challenge given to him and other stakeholders in the industry on the need for the mapping and the establishment of the GIS in the state.


“Today’s presentation of 75 percent level of accomplishment across board on all the six modules of this project is a testimony to the fact that God, indeed has answered our prayers,” he stated.


The governor also added that, with the technology, people in Lagos will be located wherever they are, for government to know their problems and plan well to proffer solutions that would be tailored to their peculiar needs.

[img]http://www.234next.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?[/img]

http://www.234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/Metro/5423386-147/story.csp

Quote from Afam

@topic,

What on earth would a clearing agent be doing on the location if not to clear the goods? This is common sense question but as they say common sense no common at all at all.

Personal view - One of the very few if not only reasonable questions and post actually asked and posted throughout the four pages of this thread.

theforce:
Alas the MYTH called "[b]B[/b]righter [b]R[/b]ewarding [b]F[/b]uture"?
Its becoming constantly evident that politicians are always going to be the same.
As Tinunbu put a never drying Money well "Oando / Gaslink" on ground before leaving,
He added another in BRF , which is being solidified by the recent Pay me what you pay your self bill,
How different is he from Adedibu, Do we realy believe that the AC and PDP are different?

PDP is only an easy target due to its size, the truth is that all the partiesa are the same.
Infrastructure is dead in all states INCLUDING LAGOS!

BRT you may ask? For a state with as much Population and Internaly generated revenue, it is sad to use
1. Grass and flower
2. One route (Ikorodu - CMS) bus system
3. Oshodi clearing

To justify a GOOD JOB on his part!

Lagos earns internally more that many west african countries but the difference is clear still. Have you seen some of the schools in Lagos, students on the floor in class, 3 classes in one room 3 schools occupying facilities for one.
The praise singers are just jokers , i pray our eyes are open to the truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH

Can't we for once ever be objective? Are what you listed all that has been done during the current administration? Why not judge each administration on its own merit? Why on earth do you expect lagos to look like dubai in just two years of this administration? Is there solid progress being made with regards to projects (Micro Finance initiative, Lekki Free trade zone, greater efficiency in tax collection, urban renewal in a lot of areas, Eko atlantic, instigation of e payment, CCTV initiative, improvement of business environment for investors which can be seen in the long list of projects, etc)? So why do you then go out of your way to paint a vague and incomplete picture? Does that mean there are no questions to answer in this incidence? By all means no, so again I ask, why can't we be objective for once?

soi:
Gentlemen, I have taken my time to go through the thread.  Apart from Rev Mallam and a few others, some of us don't get my point.
We Nigerians ought to understand that we may not be reaping the benefits of our being giants. However that does not mean that we are not giants.

The fact that you don't have water to flush your toilet does not mean you are the only person going through that plight. I repeat, most of the African countries are white washed tombs. We can't compare ourselves to them in any way and in any form.

I have traveled to almost  40 of the fifty African countries. Presently, I live in Ghana. I know for a fact that the Ghana you so dream of is nothing compared to our beloved naija. I wonder which part of  Village Togo has water. They don't even have tarred roads. Talk of congo, gabon etc. Nigeria has greater advantages , amenities and opportunities. Even our currency is a very strong one in value.

I want someone who has traveled around Africa to respond. If you haven't touched an African Nation, then don't bother because you don't know what you are talking about.

Your arguements don't take the whole of Africa into consideration and present a myopic view of Africa, its actually a tad funny responding. I tried to avoid naming countries earlier hoping you would actually look at the continent more closely but I guess that is what we should do so we can put this "Giant of Africa" thing to a rest.

Firstly, the only way your comparisons would become viable to qualify Nigeria as the Giant of Africa is if you mean subsaharan Africa, have you ever been to egypt? Ever seen Cairo? What about Libya? Tunisia? Morroco? I won't go on and I hope I don't have to go beyond naming those countries. If want more info just do a basic research at best.

Now let us look at subsaharan africa, again that "Giant" status only remains valid if you ignore south africa. Fair enough, you could argue its not really a "black" nation. What about Botswana? Botswana with its relatively small size has a world respected economy that has shown constant growth and stability. There has also been political stability, the systems work and the institutions of the nation are healthy and functioning, that is development. If we are to even step things down a notch, look at cote d'ivoire.

Am I saying Nigeria hasn't got the potential to be a world player and indeed a Giant? Of course not and I believe it easily can. However what is irritating is when people equate potential to what is actually on ground, it is irritating because a lot of people have used it as a justification for resting on their oars and making themselves feel better. The reality of the situation on the ground is different from the perceived potential and if anything shouting "potential Giant" shouldn't make anyone proud, it should make Nigerians ashamed that after over 4 decades of independence it is still potential we are boasting about. How embarassing. From all accounts of your post it seems you ignored quite a few countries before the Giant status you proposed for Nigeria was concluded.

soi:
I read a thread earlier, that had the question "Is Nigeria really the Giant of Africa." I was not amused when I saw most of what was written in that thread. If you want to know the truth, don't travel to UK, USA or any country of the west. Travel to Togo, Benin, Cameroon, Congo, Ghana, Botswana etc.

Many countries in Africa are nothing but whitewashed tombs. Don't just visit those lush areas, go into the hinterlands. Go to our so called competitor called Ghana. Inside Accra, the capital city are Slumps, Villages where there is neither water nor light. Visit Lome, That one is a glorified village, Go to Congo. Stop visiting nice areas in some of these African countries and visit some other Areas.

I hated Nigeria with a passion until I went to some countries and found no ATM machine. In some that have ATM, they are not interconnected. Nigeria that you are insulting gives them loans and grants and some other form of aid. They depend on us for subsidized energy. We are the second largest economy in Africa after south Africa. We hold political power and will.

Many African nations like the Kenyans etc are jealous of us. We are more advanced than some lonely town like Gabon and some nations that are virtually Ghost towns. We have more human resources , we have more natural resources aside oil, Most of these nations are sustained by Nigerians. An example is Ghana. The amount of tax paid by Nigerian businesses to the Ghanaian govt amounted to about a billion dollars. In African peace keeping missions, we contribute more in personnel logistics and finances. That is why Ojo Madueke was being pushed by the British to commit to the Zimbabwe course which he rightly declined.

Every 1 in 4 African is a Nigerian. We are Giants in all regards. The only problem we have is the epileptic power supply and the proper management of our resources. Many of us are poor. South Africa , The largest economy in Africa has the same problem. Nigeria may have failed us but let us not belittle who we are.

How many countries have the capacity to send electricity to neighboring nations. How many oil producing African countries, Angola (the largest oil producer in Africa inclusive), are able to catch the world's attention anytime our oil exploration is tampered with. Are we the only nation producing oil? are Sudan, Equatorial guinea, gabon , Libya etc not producing oil. Lets stop it.

Even this 419 issue, we have more internet fraud in many African countries. Our lack of any form of identity outside sometimes makes a foreigner claim to be a Nigerian. Beware because chances are that the fraudulent mail you received is from either Cote de Ivoire, Ghana or even Sierra Loene.

I am not paranoid, no. I am trying to set the records straight. If you have never traveled out, do so and you will discover that that naira you treat like rubbish is gold in some other country.

we have problems, That is correct, serious problems. Let's think of how to solve them than slash our necks with a knife only to wake up one day to discover; we were living in illusions due to our ignorance.

If things continue going the way they are just give the issue highlighted in bold a year or so and at that point a Nigerian pipeline being blown up would be seen as insignificant news on the world stage. You state that there are other oil producing nations in Africa without pointing out that until of recent Nigeria was the biggest oil exporting country in Africa and the seventh largest in the world. Can you imagine the potential? 1 in 4 Africans are Nigerians, and what has that resulted in? The Japanese are known for their hardwork and the Chinese and Indians are already converting their huge population to a huge resource, what has Nigeria done with its population? The power situation is it new? Nigeria cannot provide Energy for itself and it is exporting electricity and you see that as sensibility or big brother mentality as opposed to stupidity? The Ghana you berate was able to hold credible general elections, when last did Nigeria handle that? Nigeria that even struggles to hold credible Local Government Elections? How many African countries have held credible elections and where does Nigeria the "Giant of Africa" come on the list?

The sad part is that people seem to link development to structures and such that is why you see cases of governors with good intentions (at times) going abroad and coming back to build the structures they see abroad meanwhile disregarding or failing to take into account the systems put in place that make such developments thrive and function properly.

Rich Dad:
Soon,it will be former LG chairmen and councellors, hmmm even deceased traditional rulers.Masses you are on your own! A word is enuf 4 d ,   

Pardon me but I have never understood what seems to have become a culture in nairaland of always putting the onus on the so called "masses" to act or blaming the "masses" for their innaction or whatever. Please who are these "masses"? Are you somehow excluded from the so called masses? It seems like a culture that has become the latest fad people use to disocciate thamselves with the uncomfortable prospect of putting the onus partly on themselves because it might mean god forbid they actually have to do something. Soing something ofcourse as opposed to simply reverting to throwing around pronouns like "we" and using such an inclusive pronoun in the such a way that it ironically excludes the poster from action or responsibility. Like "we" is some distant group of people. LOL. Nigeria

Fashola has to be asked plainly if there are any moves or intentions of revisiting this issue because this is just simply obscene. I have no problem with pensions, but what is attainable in this case really is ridiculous and needs to be revisited. The current Lagos government has been showing with actions so far that it is commited to infrastructural and economic development, perhaps this might be a genuine test of the resolve the Lagos state government has with regards to corruption and government largesse and stifling bureaucracacy. I can't even believe such a law was passed through the legislature if it actually was.

sabaestate:
Former Heads of State who shot their way to power should not benefit from a retirement package being debated by the National Assembly, senators insisted yesterday.

Speaking during debate on general principles of a bill for an act to provide remuneration for former Presidents, Heads of State, Heads of Federal Legislative Houses and Chief Justices of the federation, majority of senators spoke against inclusion of former military rulers under the package.

Presenting his lead debate, Senate Leader Teslim Folarin said "The thrust of this bill is essential to amend Decree 32 of 1999 and ensure that only democratically elected former Presidents are entitled to benefit from the entitlements and benefits enumerated in the schedules to the bill.

The former military leaders are however members of the Council of State under the Third Schedule Part 1B (5) of the 1999 Constitution which reads, "The Council of State shall comprise the following personsa) the President, who shall be the Chairman; (b) the Vice-President, who shall be the Deputy Chairman; (c) all former Presidents of the Federation and all former Heads of the Government of the Federation; (d) all former Chief Justices of Nigeria; (e) the President of the Senate; (f) the Speaker of the House of Representatives; (g) all the Governors of the states of the Federation; and (h) the Attorney-General of the Federation."

But Section 84 of the same constitution left former military rulers out of the list of former leaders due for remuneration. The offices aforesaid are the offices of President, Vice-President, Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice of the Supreme Court, President of the Court of Appeal, Justice of the Court of Appeal, Chief Judge of the Federal High Court, Judge of the Federal High Court, Chief Judge and Judge of the High Court of the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja, Chief Judge of a State, Judge of the High Court of a State, Grand Kadi of the Sharia Court of Appeal of the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja, President and Judge of the Customary Court of Appeal of the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja, Grand Kadi and Kadi of the Sharia Court of Appeal of a State, President and Judge of the Customary Court of Appeal of a State, the Auditor-General for the Federation and the Chairmen and members of the following executive bodies, namely, the Code of Conduct Bureau, the Federal Civil Service Commission, the Independent National Electoral Commission, the National Judicial Council, the Federal Judicial Service Commission, the Judicial Service Committee of the Federal Capital Territory,"

The bill was passed by the 5th session of the National Assembly but was refused assent by former President Olusegun Obasanjo who also supported removal of former military Heads of State from the beneficiaries of the remuneration. It has now passed through second reading again and will soon be subjected to public hearing.

FEEL FREE TO DROP YOUR COMMENT
ITS WORTH HEARING


http://allafrica.com/stories/200906080609.html

That means Yaradua doesn't get a pension too? I would support that.

Libra38:
@ Sky Blue

The woman in question here is NOT Mrs. Yaradua but Mrs. Sherriff - Borno State First Lady.

Just note!

Error which I corrected. Thanks

eldee:
I agree with that point, in my opinion, she only recommended, the final decision was made by the Governor and the Judiciary.
And everyone, even you and myself, has the right to put forward people's names for amnesty, the rest lies on the Governor's final decision.

Makes more sense that she that she put names forward, however the report does say she granted prisoners amnsesty. Either that was the case or it is lazy journalism. Its Nigeria so both highly probable

Is the issue really wether the first lady has the power to grant amnesty or wether the first lady does not know the basic constitution and laws of the country? The simple truth is that I won't be surprised if Mrs Obama or Mrs Brown or even Mrs Bush could achieve such a feat, maybe out of pity on some inmates met during visit, talk to some people and get some prisoners (especially if it is minor crimes) released, basically backyard shenanigans and all hush hush. No biggie, they are afterall the wives of some powerful people.

The issue in the case of Mrs Sherrif is that this is clearly unconstitutional and it was done in public and in front of the press hence showing obvious ignorance of the basics of laws and the constitution or a complete disrespect and disregard for them, therein lies the shame and this is how I see the issue. What is scary is the blatant disregard and the various conclusions one can draw from that? This is tantamount to farting blatantly in public and calling the press to record the event incase anyone missed the pitch of the flatulence.

Afam:
Do you want the FG to empower the South East? A steel plant was supposed to be built in Enugu due to the proximity to coal but after the war they set it up at Ajaokuta and built rail tracks to move coal from Enugu to the present steel complex.

The US currently generates about 40% of its electricity from coal fired plants and yet the FG will not allow Enugu state to build plants that could provide steady power supply to people from the region or the country for that matter.

It is this type of tribal politics that pisses one off in this Nigeria project.

The most sensible way to turn the tide of politics in Nigeria and make it more grass root oriented and hence foster wider spread development is decentralising power from the federal goverment and giving states more power. Such can be achieved through the house of reps and the senate. I know I am stating the obvious but I mention it again to encourage well meaning Nigerians to group and lobby around members of the legislature in order to get important bills passed.

I agree with staggered polls in order to manage resources more effectively and put certain areas under better scrutiny, I have even suggested such on numerous occassions. What I am not sure of though is the Chairman's sincerity and genuine intention of achieving free and fair elections in Nigeria.

@Poster, thanks for the thread, if anything I respect your sincerity, it isn't so common on this forum. The truth is that a lot of people abroad consider the possibility or returning to Nigeria. Living in places like U.K especially really isn't all that at all, a lot of people actually end up having a poor quality of life due to the stress that is attainable with living in such places. A lot of people work so hard to make money they can't even enjoy. At the end of the day it depends on what is important to you and if you feel you would be able to attain more joy and fullfilment in starting an enterprise in Nigeria then by all means consider it, I would only advice you to do some serious and strategic planning. Think with a clear head and don't let this thread easily degenerate into the silly comparisons between Nigeria and everywhere else, home is home.

Enterprises add a huge ammount to a country in so many ways because you hire people, you pay taxes, you provide a service, etc. The group who opened the Palms shopping mall in lagos apart from opeining the biggest shopping mall in the country and providing services like cinemas, etc, also created employment for a lot of people, provided revenue for the state via taxes and made a pretty good profit (to put is quite mildly). Again, enterprises potentially do a lot for nation building in their own right. Just because you want to start an enterprise does not mean you are ruthless and out to get all you can for yourself alone. Nigeria is high risk but a lot of opportunities DO exist. It is time the private sector arose to the challenge of nation building too. There are so many opportunities to provide services which would apart from being an enterprise, would also improve quality of life of the people in the country.

Litmus:
Sky Blue wrote:




Traditionally those who want to defend Nigeria against what they perceive as counter productive criticism run up against the difficulty that those who they argue against refuse to acknowledge or concede ground on anything positive that Nigeria has done. For example, if I used Abuja as a counter point to your reference to the development of the Polish city of Phoenix, instead of acknowledging that the point of mentioning Abuja is that it represents a like development of place where before nothing stood, just like Phoenix city; you will start comparing the relative costs.   Therefore, instead of falling into the same trap, I am going to turn it on its head and do to you what the Obsessive Nigeria Criticisers do.


So here goes:

I have seen pictures of Phoenix city. Look how long ago World War 2 was with all the money from Marshal Plan Phoenix city should be the greatest city in the world. Just compare phoenix city to Dubai, compare it to West Germany. The polish are corrupt that is why their people keep fleeing to England to do menial jobs. As for Dubai, what is the point of wasting all that money digging up desert? They’ve spent trillions of dollars and for what just to entertain the wealthy. Only the wealthy dwell in Dubai-oooo.  I give Dubai only till the oil runs out and see if the sands don't swallow up all those useless artificial rivers .Nonsense corruption, all those sheiks stealing the people’s money to create a playground for the wealthy- jay! How nonsense!   In addition, China, Keh! After thousands of years of development, they are barley ahead of India, which got independence in 1947. See how they turn their guns on students; slaughtering thousands upon thousand in Tianamen square and England the less said about it the better.  England committed mass frauds on an international scale going to peoples land and looting their artefacts. They squander Billions on education but their children can barely read. All they have managed to achieve after all these years is a vast population of children who have learned nothing but to act like the pirates their forefathers were.

No point trying to section me into "groups" of people as there really isn't any point in doing such, anyway, your prerrogative. Dubai is mainly built on private investment and Warsaw same thing. The environment allows private investment to thrive. As a result it might become obvious to you that I do not see development as a solely phyical thing. You would have had a better shot of convincing me of development in Nigeria using lagos than abuja. I think the current Lagos is more developed than Abuja because it is able to sustain itself financially by generating its own revenue, develop itslef using its own revenue, and has an environment which makes doing business possible and enables business to thrive and grow. The current Lagos is also more democratic and people friendly than abuja.

Can Abuja survive without oil money? What Industries are in Abuja? Isn't it ironic that you are quick to point out that Dubai is a recluse and reserve for the rich without mentioning that Abuja even without enjoying basic facilities like power and water that Dubai has also enjoys such an exclusive status? Abuja is also a reserve for the rich except unoike dubai and other such places you are paying to have the opportunity to generate your own power, drill your own borehole for your water and pay for your own security after of course caging yourself into your own house. So again, what are we talking about? I did not say nothing was happening so please don't try to speak for me, I simply said the time and money available does not in any way justify the level of development reached. Isn't it time we stop accepting breadcrumbs as reasonable and justifiable development under the convenient guise of "it takes time"?

lannre:
@ Sky Blue

I cant be more than serious,its frustrating . I need to know any  good body to report to ,I want to stop this frustrating act once and for all.

To be honest my main advice is pushing for pre paid meter. What part of the country are you in? You don't need to answer if you don't want to, but basically look up the bodies available to report such issues and you could even attempt reporting to NEPA headquaters in your area. Again, I think it would make more sense to go and ask why pre paid meters aren't made available. Are there laws stating that you can't go to another state that sells pre paid meters and obtain and install such? I doubt it and if such laws aren't there then find a way to obtain pre paid because it would be difficult to prove the duration of your power supply in the law courts and such might prove futile.

Everyone in Nigeria should strive to obtain pre paid meters and cut short the opportunity for corruption in PHCN. I have witnessed first hand how these bills are "allocated". It is not necessarily about the money but such blatant corruption in broad daylight is quite irritating. GET PRE PAID METER

Litmus:
While you're at it don't be so keen on taking British government too seriously either, you never know


Remember, in context of history, Nigeria is nowhere near as corrupt as Britain has been and some would ague still is

Not taking any sides per se, just looking at the standard of living, development, opportunities for citizens, prospects, etc and making a judgement based on such crude mearsurement indices. We all know the history, but look at dubai as recently as 10years ago and look at it now. Look at china in thesame time period. Then look at Nigeria in the last 60 years and we still can't generate power. So what are you talking about? The polish city of warsaw is nicknamed 'the phoenix city' because it was completely destroyed during World War 2. Look at the city today, visit and see for yourself the opportunities the city presents. Look at a picture of Hiroshima that was hit by the atomic bomb, look at the city today. So what are you talking about? Yes England (especially cities like Liverpool and London) were built on the back of slaves, you won't get any arguement from me on that. So what about all the examples I have stated? Are such using history as a justification for remaining behind?

Litmus:
So what is the difference between Nigeria and Britain?

They both have corrupt governments, brutal police force that kills demonstrators
Both waging illegal wars-



-besides what’s and exaggeration or two among Nigerians…

More like overexaggeration. 
When Nigeria can generate more than 10,000MW or conduct simple local government election then I would begin to take its government more seriously, till then. . . .

Litmus:
The way things stand now Britain should be up there in the list of failed states.

How on earth did you possibly reach that conclusion?

lannre:
The embarrassment of Illegal Disconnection, How I wish we have a trust on police to arrest someone who is not sowing but reaping.

Try sueing and making a scape goat. Show others the way to follow so that it incites mass diligence towards their rights. I will even support you sef in any way I can if you are serious.

govo:
60million Nigerians are comfirmed to own generators for their electricity , that is not really a good news for the global warming efforts, its also not a good news for jobs creation, it is a very bad news for the economy , why have successive governments paid a blind eye to the issue of electricity in this country even when they know that is what is needed to jump start the dead economy ? which direction is this country going ?

??
Global warming? If the generator culture in the country should be argued in a negative light, I will argue for pollution causing poor air quality, noise pollution, cost, etc, but global warming? How much energy does Nigeria not to talk of Africa as a whole produce? How much Industrial activity exists in Africa compared to the rest of the world? Why on earth should africa be carrying the burden of "global warming" on its head when the continent's contribution to such compared to the rest of the world is not significant? Whatever can give Nigeria power should be considered even if it includes burning fossil fuels. Renewable energy should be considered and looked at if it would prove to be in the best interest of Nigeria in the future and in terms of cost effectiveness. Ordinary Britain that has huge industrial activity and power consumption, and such are still struggling to attain 15% power generation from renewable resources. Gas flaring has been going on since forever and we are worried about melting ice caps now? The country wants power, the country wants development, the country wants industrialisation, that should be the main priority (just my personal view).