₦airaland Forum

darqly:
@sky blue- I don't know where in our constitution its stipulated that an ex-governer is entitled to 3 vehicles. If it is,then it's sad. And even if it is, 3 jeeps(call them SUVs, CRVs, PVCs- they're all the same) is too costly for any Nigerian state at the moment. People forget we're in a recession, where did he get the funds from?

Adams ought to set a precedent, I believe thats what got time there in the first place- People expecting a change, not business as usual.
Can Adams afford 3 jeeps from his own pocket for his father? People take to the government kitty as if its confetti it contains.

I will be impressed if you can highlight anywhere in any of my posts whereby I said it was in the constitution to buy gifts for governors with state money or where I even mentioned the relevance of the discussed issue to the constitution. Is it against the constitution for people to give gifts to others when the gifts are bought with their own money? Hence since we both read the same article all I have been doing is asking you to point out where it said that money from the state treasury was used to buy those vehicles.

You mentioned the vehicles bought with the state's money were seized and returned, right? So these ones that were bought again after the previous incident, were they bought with state money or not? If you can't answer that question and back it up then what on earth are you expecting me to get all rattled about? That some guy decided to buy someone he allegedly respects a gift with his own money?

darqly:
And another one bites the dust, or should I say the lust?
Truly power corrupts, the cheek of it, for Adams to do a 360 so soon.
Is there not ONE man in government that can say NO to corruption or lust for power or sheer stupidity?

I really feel I have to keep asking what the crime is, am I missing something here? The article said jeeps were bought and given as a gift, did it state exclusively wether state money was used? Can we at least have a discussion backed with some substance or at least better analysis?

nex:
@Sky Blue

the vehicles were purchased with state money. They were earlier retrieved by the state, but Oshiomhole thought better.

And were the vehicles currently purchased and given as a gift after the earlier ones were retrieved bought with state money?

A tad disappointing that a band wagon has formed with only very few people if any asking the question that some might argue matters the most. Did he use tax payers money or the state treasury to buy the jeeps? If we all read from thesame article you will notice that such information wasn't stated. So if we don't have such information why are people already jumping on the crucifiction band wagon? At least if people argued from the view point of his finances and how he was able to pay for the jeeps if bought with his money then we have something, we have substance. But this just seems as complaining and arguing for the sake of it, with very little other than the posted article that dispenses little in the way of information to back claims up. What is even more irritating is that after all the irritating whining if he is found to be in the wrong then how many of you will actually do anything?

Jarus:
@onlytruth,
Welcome!
Sanusi 'bought' me over with his writings. I spent whole day and night reading his writings when I did research about him shortly b4 he became CBN governor.  The guy has depth. He freely delves into philosophy, politics, history, religion(all religions) , name it. I became his biggest fan after reading his write-ups. This guy is so brilliant. His analytical skills is mesmerizing, his choice of words is fascinating. Whoever thinks this Sanusi is just one aboki is the one that is ignorant. He may not have gone to Harvard, but I can place my money on his depth of multi-disciplinary scholarship.

Interested in reading his past articles, type Sanusi Lamido Sanusi on google.

I think you might be failing to see the bigger picture and perhaps the underlying reasoning as to why some might not be willing to embrace Sanusi. I found a brief interview with Sanusi about the Nigerian economy, financial sector, failing banks, etc to be interesting and informative. He sounded competent and knew what he was talking about which was quite promising. However I will not judge him by his words alone for actions and not words are the real test of convictions. Many infamous figures in history, the world over demonstrated eloquence and sagacity, the issue is actions, hence I believe  based on his seeming intelligence he should be given room to act before we can judge or castigate him. He seems well qualified for the job.

Now the other edge of the sword and perhaps you would now understand how this goes beyond Sunusi Lamido. One has to wonder when idealism will actually birth concrete actions to back it up. The ideal would be getting the best man for the job and if someone said Sanusi was it I would not argue. Now why can't this be applied every single time? Why does it seem that idealism in that respect is always called for when it fits a specific agenda? I personally could not care less about where the person in the helm of affairs comes from as long as the job for once actually gets done but it would be disenginuous and perhaps even wicked to label people who rightly recognise the hypocricy of the federal government as tribalist. Since the federal government has been so hell bent on forcing Nigerians to accept the compromise of federal character why does it seem that they always change the position of the goal post when it would favour a particular section of the country? Is such a recogntion of the mediocrity and incompetence that the system of 'federal character' (along with quota system, zoning of presidency, etc) generally produces or is it just ethnic bigotry? If this idea of 'federal character' cannot be consistently stuck to then why is it not just abolished? You can now easily see how something as simple as this can raise even deeper issues and questions about the 'fundamentals' of the foundation of the nation which are marred with injustice.

If the allegations are in fact true then this is a good and welcome development (to me anyway). I hope other institutions follow suit and I would be interested in learning how the two members of staff found guilty of wrong doing are punished.

texazzpete:
Interesting.

So if i create a website overnight and post anything i feel like, you people will swallow it hook, line and sinker, abi?
The source of this article does not give me any confidence at all. Besides, it's become all too common for some of these online news agencies to post all sorts of outrageous stories and attribute them to 'informed sources' or 'highly placed sources'.

Either way, if you Nigerians know what's good for you, join me let's vote out PDP in 2011.

Thanks for that, I don't think there has actually been anything more sensible posted in this thread than what was contained in the part highlighted in bold (personal opinion). The complaining will continue, when elections come people won't go out and vote and won't care what happens to votes then expect different? What other fruit can be produced from a country that glorifies corruption and injustice other than corruption and injustice? Let us stop using pronouns like "we" that rob individuals of their personal responsibility and let us make it more personal. Are "you" going to do anything? Are "you" going to vote come 2011? Are "you" going to work towards making sure "your" vote is counted?

Perhaps there is a link to corrupt activities? I hope so if not this is embarassing. Arresting loan defaulters is not the job of the EFCC

It is obvious that there is so much more to this than meets the eye and hence a proper investigation is required. The list of debtors to the five banks makes for a very interesting read indeed. I did not even have to go far and Rockson Engineering already stood out like a sore thumb as being the company that was named in the EFCC interim report against Peter Odilli. Rockson Engineering company was alleged to be one of the avenues used by Peter Odilli to loot the Rivers State treasury. Due to how messed up the country is with regards to corruption something as remote as bank audits can end up indicting and exposing so many people. The corruption in Nigeria is so intrinsic and wide spread in the country that I wouldn't be surprised if an akara seller farting in public can also potentially indict and bring down Babangida if investigated thoroughly. A thorough investigation is important but since this is Nigeria we speak of I would not hold my breath.

Link to list of debtors
http://cenbank.org/Out/publications/pressRelease/GOV/2009/ADVERTORIAL2.pdf

Link to a copy of EFCC interim report on Peter Odilli
http://www.chatafrikarticles.com/articles/379/1/Interim-Report-of-the-EFCC-on-Governor-Peter-Odili/Page1.html

LOL. Nairaland and una "outrage". It really is amusing. Please let us hear something new and more interesting. What is so unusual in the prospect of a questionable character contesting and winning elections in Nigeria?

Ibori was an ex convict (convicted for coniving with his girl friend to steal from a hardware store) who left the UK and went to Nigeria to contest election. Where were all of you and your outrage? He won elections and went on a rampage, indulging in many questionable practises, where were you and your outrage? He was tried in court, the judiciary under him was made a mockery off and in fact he even had supporters showing up in court, where were you and your outrage? How many of you would have done something as basic as protesting together in public? Who is the current minister for education and what is his history in government and the state of things? What did your "outrage" achieve when Peter Odilli whose wife coincidentally is a judge went to the high court in Port Harcourt to seek an injunction against the EFCC barring them from arresting him or publishing some of the findings of their investigation? What did you do with your "outrage" when the judiciary gave the last elections a pass mark? Abeg do not waste this Nigerian brand of outrage that reeks of false morality, save it and try and put it to better use on broadway. With all the "outrage" going on you would think the country would have been fixed by now or at least a commendable attempt made. Tomorrow some one will bring up a simple suggestion on how they plan to act in changing the country the way that is in their capacity and una go shoot them down with insults while still staying behind keyboard maintaining "outrage" at the situation.

I seriously pray Babangida does not decide to contest elections in Nigeria because like play like play he would get into aso rock and all Nigerians would do is stay there and be "outraged". LOL. Nigeria.

[quote author=Aloy~Emeka link=topic=311618.msg4377493#msg4377493 date=1250633178]In that case, its no new invention.[/quote]Wow? Where did anyone claim it was a new "invention"? I just don't get some posters sometimes, why don't we measure with thesame spoon so that while we rightly lambast all the vices in the country we can also aknowledge when something worthy of aknowledgement occurs. It might be that you don't find the development aknowledgeble and that is absolutely fine. I just don't get this attack mechanism that is not uncommon in nairaland whereby facts are ignored to draw a conclusion on a non existent hypothesis. Do we just lambast and moan for the sake of it? Because the US has something similar does not necessarily mean its thesame, the only allusion to uniqueness of the product I saw in the article was when it was stated that "this is the first of its kind in the world". The fact that the US military might have a similar product is not mutually exclusive with the one apparently produced in Nigeria being the first of its kind.

Good development

@babapupa i feel you.

A good start to what would hopefully be an appointment filled with many more bold steps taken to make the police force more functional, efficient and less corrupt. Let us see what happens next. It is just a pity that some people can't see a good thing and say it is a good thing. The list was given to him by the presidential office. What is the talk of "initial gra gra"? Why can't we access what is presented before us? Is it a good move or not? Simple as that. If it is indeed "initial gra gra" and the guy does something condemnable later on then feel free to condemn. Gosh, Nigerians, it seems you can't win no matter what. Can we at least debate with substance if we indeed have to?

JamesG:
It is inevitable that this will happen –

In a nutshell:

Nigerian Foreign Reserve = Crude proceeds (90%) + other Export&Taxes (10%) – Import
• Crude Proceeds ($) = Gross Sale (100%) - Niger Delta disruption (25%) – Misappropriation (Fed & State possibly (~20%))
• :. Crude Proceeds is then ~ 45% less

Restricting FOREX equates to reducing foreign Importation – when the dollar is high import oriented businesses will defer purchases to more favorable periods.

This would be a sound economic strategy if only the government is less corrupt, and other potential revenue streams are developed in order to boost export. Unfortunately this’ not the case – infrastructure and institutions put in place to ensure sound economic growth are dilapidated and marred with mismanagement and corruption.

Total resource control will not happen in Nigeria unless other revenue streams are available to elevate other non-oil producing states. The North which occupies possibly 60% of the land area of Nigeria has almost zero export revenue streams.

Amnesty for MEND, and their request for housing for members ONLY, completely falls short of a plausible resolution. What about the other millions living in the Niger Delta – they will ultimately be the MEND of tomorrow. There’s really no quick fix for the problem in Nigeria – the political oligarchy are just making their normal outrageously lucrative rounds – yesterday it was OBJ; today Yar’Adua; and tomorrow another one. This will go on indefinitely – why? You ask, “The populace lack the will to fight back”.

Quite interesting to see the ammount of extrapolation required to draw the conclusion that the current situation with regards to the naira is directly tied to ammount of crude oil exported as opposed to a simple case of limiting the supply of the dollar hence the value of the dollar going up. It really isn't that complicated.

Most important part of article:

Kobojunkie:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=aWN4m1lPMl48

The Central Bank of Nigeria sold $183.7 million to commercial banks at its most recent auction on July 29, below the $604.84 million demanded on that day, Citigroup said in the note.

LOL, a tad amusing especially since it reminds me of a particular topic whereby a certain poster in the topic thread was postulating that solely foreign exchange (in terms of import and export) affects value of Naira. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-275465.0.html

Fhemmmy:
Protecting reserves at the expense of the people's well being.
Nigeria is a consumption nation, and with high $$, i hope they know most things will be out of the reach of the masses, and now what will be the use of the Reserves.

Well put and hits the heart of the matter in just two sentences : ) This seems to be a compromise and putting the pockets of the government before the people, as simple as that. But what else would be expected in current Nigeria though? Forget how it should be, in Nigeria is the CBN really working for the benefit of the people or the benefit of the government especially in Nigeria the government does not represent the people?

fyneguy:
our government wants to eat their cake and have it. No, it's not possible.

If we refuse to encourage the real sector of the economy and lazy around with importation, then we must be prepared for either of reserve depletion and/or naira devaluation.

Couldn't agree more, all this results to is putting a band aid on a leg requiring amputation. To be honest the foreign reserves might become a crouch and dead weight if all that is done by the CBN is working out policies to protect money that the government doesn't seem to have any plans of using to improve things like infrastructure or even fix the power problem, such things that will actually drastically make a difference to the real economy and potentially improve confidence in the Nigerian market and greater confidence in the Naira.

Hate to point it out but once again part of the blame lies on the federal government for such uneccessary confusion, lack of guts and misdirection. We have money in the foreign reserves not being spent on anything which could improve the quality of the business environment, and a CBN that is set on protecting this money instead of potentially putting the money in the hands of the people to better their lives since the federal government doesn't want to. If this continues prepare for further inflation because Nigeria pretty much imports everything, even rice.

ofokasibe:
FUNNY ENOUGH THE ONE MILLION MAN MARCH TO YARADUAS BEDROOM WILL SPEAK VOLUME , THE WHOLE WORLD WILL SEE IT , THE MEDIA CNN , BBC ETC AND THE ASO ROCK IDIOTS WILL BE FORCED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
WE ARE TIRED OF SLOW IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENTS , YARADUA MUST BE VOTED OUT !NEXT YEAR
THATS WHY YOU GUYS HAVE TO VOTE FOR CHRIS OKOTIE OR PAT UTOMI , YOUNG BRAINS WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER, NOT THIS OLD MEN WITH OVERGROWN POT BELLIES,! YARADUA MUST BE VOTED OUT ,, WE ARE VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN GIVE US SIMPLE LIGHT!

I don't want to derail the thread but honestly the part I highlighted in bold is something that needs to be addressed and work has to start going in now. I really believe this is an opportunity we cannot afford to let pass us by. I don't want to be so arrogant as to tell people who or who not to vote for, but if anything, using discernment based on idealogies, debates presented by candidates, etc, we need to pick one or two people to push towards the limelight and back it up with a push for electoral reform. I really now believe at this point that if Yar Adua is allowed to continue he will be the utter undoing of the country and in no peaceful way I might add. Niger Delta issue, Boku Haram and it seems he has not been able to do anything with regards to anything. 2011 is not so far if you think about it, the ball has to be put in motion. It would be hard work but think of the alternative. Can the country survive 4 more years of Yar Adua?

With regards to the march, all I can advice is that you have a clear agenda and be more specific about what you actually want achieved.

Fhemmmy:
Waste of time and energy.
This shuld b against the govt, this shd be for requesting that Yar'Adua vacating office

What is stopping you from starting such a move?

What happened to the focus of the thread? Please let us not fight or derail the thread instead let us be constructive and understand that when working with other people not everyone will agree so please some humility is called for from everyone, it is not a compulsory thread.

The comments on that forum, WOW.

nex:
Ehen,

them don come again. Cold Footers and Blanket Wetters.

We are holding this protest in Lagos and Fashola is in support of anything to challenge the power situation.

Besides, a lot of Media support is going to be there. Beaming on the internet live. On international stations. I've personally sent messages to everyone I know in the the industry. From those working with NTA to some with MTV Base and HiTV.

I've invited people involved in video coverage and they will be broadcasting live even via video calls. Ireport doesn't have jack on this.

The entire police force in Nigeria I believe is less than 1 million personnell. You people should stop trying to intimidate us away from standing up for your right.

Whether we like it or not, Nigeria must change now!

Impressive. However I hope its not all online video. Pressure really needs to be mounted and if the government has shamed Nigerians around the world with the way the country has been run and the way Nigerians are looked at, I think its only right the government is totally humiliated and shamed as well. Do not write off i-report, if i-report is involved it means there is a good shot that the protest appears on CNN. What I am still not sure of though is the number of people who would be willing to turn up and join the protest.

A piece of advice to the organisers, have a clear agenda and a list of things you are actually marching to achieve so it doesn't just become a bunch of people aimlessly shouting about the power situation in the country. What do you want achieved? I don't mean vague agendas but specifics. I was saying the march would have been more effective if it was aimed at the legislature and aimed at some bills being proposed and passed like giving each state the right to generate its power for itself, etc, and it was just an opinion. If you have an agenda make it clear.

@chiyo, my advice to you is to see how you can get the media (most importantly international media) involved, I am hoping I wouldn't have to explain why.

Ehoi:
Better late than never. I was shocked the people want to have a march to protest the electricity situation in the country. I never knew they have the ability or the mindset to even gather together and ask questions. Bt its sad that these people are ready to march for what they think directly effects them but they are not willing to march for their freedom. Have they asked why there is no electricity? The electricity supply is directly linked to the security situation in the niger delta. Most of the gas pipes have been blown up thats why the turbines cannot generate electricity. I believe many of these people going to this march are indifferent to the plight of the niger deltans in the creek yet they want the gas to flow from there to power the turbines so they can enjoy electricity in lagos.

The people are not able to organize themselves or march against a constitution that have put them is perpetual slavery. A system that have stolen their self determination as a people. They are yet to see fit to march against a system that has stolen their land and their resources with the land Use Act. They don't march against a system that steals their vote in the ballot but oh, because electricity directly affects them, they are now ready to march hmm. Nice. Its a step in the right direction but they have got their priorities completely wrong. If they had marched in support of the niger delta many years ago and gotten the problem there solved, we would all be enjoying 24 hour power supply now. Thats why i ask, do these people know the reason why they don't have electricity?

You are saying things we all know and sorry to say but it just sounds like mroe rhetoric which is NOT what will get the country out of its situation. I explained that I would have had the rally directed at the legislature and I would have done it a bit different but I still say kudos because these people organising it are doing what they think is in their capacity and backing it with action. Again, if you have a better idea why not work to bring it to fruition? After years of hearing nothing but talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk in this section of nairaland it is always refreshing to see people who are willing to back it up with action and if they pull it off in my book they have achieved more than a huge portion of this forum combined have through online participation (personal opinion). What good is it having convictions if you don't plan to do anything anyway?

Kudos and I hope you get a lot of supporters to join you on the day, I find it difficult to comprehend how someone would condemn such a move which could potentially draw interest and get people involved in the culture of demanding more from their government.

@Ehoi and @back2back, the organisers of this march have seen it as being in their capacity to do what they propose, if you think other more fundamental issues should be the focus or if you think a different approach should be used, what is stopping any of you from starting up such a venture? We really need to develop a culture of protest in any form that puts government under pressure to deliver what the people put them there to deliver. Personally I think a more strategic approach like a protest targeted at the house of reps and the senate, to pass a bill (which the organisers could propose) which gives back to the states the power to generate their own electricity would be more effective and useful to solving the problem. I still salute the venture and hope it is well organised, gets media coverage locally and internationally to really put shame on the government in the eyes of the international community.

If it was up to me the ASUU strike would even go on for at least a year. I know people will very understandably find such a view offensive and hard to swallow, but look the history of strike in ghana's higher education system, there was a major strike that lasted for well over a year that pretty much forced the hand of the government to address the fundamental issues that were being highlighted and since then, there has not been strikes again in ghana. How many more years would the minor strikes cummulatively eat up and rob Nigerian students of?

Beaf:
Thanks rookie. I'm 100% aware of Sky_blue's words, but more specially, his intent. If you have grown up in the Niger Delta, then the sort of arguments he was very forcefully making, either sound callous or wicked (please note that I am not saying he is either).

I will close by giving summary from one African NGO;
the Niger Delta is 'one of the world's most severely petroleum-impacted ecosystems and one of the top five most polluted places on the face of the Earth.' More than 1.5 million tons of oil, equivalent to one Exxon-Valdez disaster every year for 50 years, have spilled into the delta, poisoning delicate mangrove and rain forest ecosystems and destroying fishing and farming livelihoods. Constant gas flaring releases toxic chemicals into the atmosphere, causing cancer, birth defects, respiratory diseases, and acid rain so toxic it corrodes metal roofs.

‘from 1999 to date, more than 20 communities have been wiped out completely and more than 50 000 persons killed by military bullets and no one is saying anything about it.

http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/comment/57769/print

The Niger Delta crisis has also put Nigeria on the failed states list; yes, that is how we are seen internationally. Yet we still find time to put out lame arguments in the face of overwhelming proof.

You couldn't comprehend a simple post from me and didn't see it fit to ask for clarity but you should be trusted with being able to form a reasonable view of something as developed as "intent"? Why not face the points and issues raised or just let it go instead of a developing pattern of going completely off point (personal opinion)? I never defended the federal government so no need to post on Odi Massacre, etc.

Lets hope it works. If such a project wasn't proposed people will complain, now that it has been proposed people are still complaining. Let us learn to be objective and back points raised with substance so its not just complaining for the sake of it. Medical Equipment isn't by any means cheap. As for the architecture, after how many years of non existent equipped hospitals in Nigeria, I really doubt a man dying of some disease will really care wether the architecture of the hospital is appealling enough to him, as long as the equipment inside works and it does the job.

Beaf:
When you are quoted and caught pants down, you deny your own words straight away as sarcasm!
You want to dance on two sides of the fence.
Hmmmm. The death of Saro Wiwa. . . "There was the Odi massacre with the loss of 2500 men, woman, children and babies. Odi was razed to the ground".

Your two faced words below only show that you are unhappy with MEND because you probably live in PH and would rather have them attack Abuja.

What I typed is there for all to see, if you couldn't get the sarcsm linked to the obvious and intentional farce of armed struggle for every single problem in Nigeria even non functioning traffic lights as was purposely insinuated by me to highlight the ridiculousness of the situation then I can't help you. I feel no need to justify myself to you. Why did you only highlight the so called proposition I stated? Why did you not highlight the "how embarassing" or the sentence I put even previous to that which would obviously have shown I was being sarcastic? Its a pity all you could come up with was "you must be living in port harcourt" when you know nothing about me or where I am for that matter, instead of facing the points raised and reading to comprehend. All in all, as I said earlier, I already saw where this was going and saw the futility a few posts earlier. Please don't feel the need to respond to my posts I just don;t think I am in any way going to be interested anymore, I am not interested in arguement for the sake of it. Have a nice day. 

Beaf:
@Sky Blue

In fairness to you, I was too hard; I too do not relish tussles for the sake of ego.
Nevertheless, not having knowledge of an issue can lead to one making statements that are on the dangerous side. I cannot speak for MEND, but it is widely spread knowledge that MEND do indeed feel an obligation to provide for the ignored, forgotten and enslaved people in the creeks. This puts them in exactly the opposite light to the first set of bolded items in the quote from you below.

In the 2nd set of bolded items, you advocate the formation of NGO's. This is your second instance of ignorance (there are more); in this case, it expresses itself as insensitivity (though from your words I do not believe that you are insensitive).
Niger Delta NGO organisers and founders have been routinely harassed, jailed and murdered. The most successful, Ken Saro Wiwa, an exponent of non-violence as well as intellectual of World renown was executed despite intercession from the UN, Common Wealth and well meaning countries. Saro Wiwa won both the Right Livelihood Award and Goldman Environmental Prize; yet he was executed, what sort of NGO are you ignorantly advocating?
There was the Odi massacre with the loss of 2500 men, woman, children and babies. Odi was razed to the ground.
There is only so much stretch in a rubber band.
The youth, who have seen their peaceful fathers killed while their babies are poisoned by pollution, have expressed themselves violently; and for once, their voice has been heard. . . Coincidence? Why should they stop?

Learn about Ken Saro Wiwa here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

If you don't fully understand what someone posted there is no shame in asking for clarity, again completely OP (off point). Firstly, not everybody will agree with you that MEND is credible hence if some might find hero or freedom fighters more beffiting a suitable comparison, allow others who will likely see comparisons with armed robbers as more beffitting to hold their own views.

With regards to your statement of the "second part in bold" as you refer to it, I would just leave it as this: the sarcasm was lost on you. The point I was trying to make was, do we now wait for formation of armed struggles for every single darn thing? Hence the mock movements like "Movement for the Dualisation of Lagos Benin Road", etc. Again, please if you do not understand there is no shame in asking for clarity. I threw out a challenge to you to point out where in my post I was making how MEND chooses to spend the money obtained from illegal oil bunkering the fundamental issue and to be honest you failed miserably because I never made such the issue and I challenge you to find such in any of my posts.
Your second paragraph just threw up issues that were irrelevant to the discussion and post you berrated.

Instead what I have been saying is that there are injustices and things to fix, the system IS fundamentally flawed, things need to change, BUT MEND has no credibility to me because they continue undergoing expeditions that affect the very poor and people IN their area while the very rich aren't really affected and the Abuja they seem to so despise because it was apparently built with oil money, the Abuja that is the seat of power of the federal government they claim to be fighting remains in tact hence seeming quite cowardly and more of hooliganism than a glorious "movement" on their part. What I am doing now i hate doing it because I am basically repeating things I have said because you failed yo go back and comprehend my previous posts or ask for clarity which if anything is courteous and shows you are actually not arguing just for the sake of it.

Beaf:
@ sky blue and a-town

Who say's MEND doesn't build amenities like schools? Stop expounding ignorance with confidence.

As to wether MEND is doing the right thing by violent attacks, what happened to Saro Wiwa and many like him? MENDhave found the right formula because the govt is suddenly realising that ND slavery needs to end.

Like babasoty said, some people are so used to bearing the brunt of bad govt that they fail to realise that there can be better. People get conditioned into thinking that the abnormal is normal.

I really don't want to get into an online tussle and I doubt it would happen because I don't do such but please learn to read other people's post before commenting, it is quite irritating when people throw up fiction that is non existent in your post. Why not point out in any of my posts whereby I berrate MEND or demand of MEND to build ammenities and use the money to better their communities? When have I claimed MEND build or do not build schools as you claim? Please highlight in any of my posts (which have remained unaltered by the way) where I have made the way MEND spends the money they get from illegal bunkering to develop their communities the main issue? Anyways, I feel I know where this thread is heading and I am not interested so have a nice day all  .

@Obeledu Nigeria and Afghanistan are apples and oranges in so many respects. Yes the taliban might build a school or two which they are under no obligation to do, they also try to impose sharia wherever they take their brand of "freedom" to, they don't have to commit illegal acts in order to get funding to carry out whatever illegalities they are involved in instead they apparently get "funding" from other sovereign nations and I am yet to here of a taliban "poppy cartel". See? Different on many levels. Hamas although despised by many in the west have huge support and following in that part of the world and were/are still regarded by many as a political group/party, MEND isn't and doesn't enjoy such support. It can be argued that Hamas is fighting for control of the region, as in, to become the leaders of the region they are associated with, MEND are supposedly fighting for the manifestation of an idealogy. Does that mean there is no cause to be fought? I am not making such claims.

[quote author=A-town link=topic=298118.msg4209301#msg4209301 date=1247923808]I see all you want to do is just throw your ideas without reading my comments properly.
I never said i'd rather have MEND do what the federal govt is not doing. The FG's neglect is not news. There are thousands of cities and states in Nigeria that have been neglected. The only reason the Niger delta is an issue is because they have oil and they feel they deserve better treatment.
Now, this is what i said.
If the militants really care for their people and environment, they will stop using illicit funds to buy explosives. They can use the money to develop their communities since the "FG" aint doing shit right? Why not harness this funds into sending more of your kinsmen to school so they can get an education and help the community. Do you no the preference given to Niger deltans when it comes to employment in Oil companies? Yet they barely have indigenes studying engineering. Their case is similar to the case of African Americans and Affirmative Action.

Only a fool will spend billions on explosives when their kinsmen are dying.
Their sponsors sit down there and make money while they blow up things and die for nothing.
The sponsors know that they will get contracts to fix the pipelines and infrastructure when mend blows it up so they'll definitely get a 100% return on their investment.
I repeat, MEND = bunch of ignorant Nigerian thieves[/quote]If I am to go by your previous posts and insinuations (which I did) and even if I am to consider this new post I have to say, there are still a lot of holes in the roof. So how much oil bunkering would have to be done to allow MEND (a militant group) develop the whole region? Is such in anyway remotely close to solving the problem of a non existent federal structure that gives states autonomy and opportunity to develop the way they see fit? Isn't oil bunkering a criminal activity? The fact that MEND has no credibility in my eyes and the fact that I view their attacks as misguided and directed at ordinary people to a significant extent does not mean I don't think there is anything to be fixed.

My grouse with your take is you advocating asking why a militant group are not doing more to develop their community using funds obtained through illegal oil bunkering while ordinary citizens continue to sit down and look while existing in a system that is fundamentally flawed. Have you got any stats to show that people from the Niger Delta don't study Engineering en masse? I happen to know that the governments of some states like Rivers already send a good number of students abroad to study via state sponsored scholarships. I happen to know a good proportion of such students go to study Engineering and other related degreees. Also, there are already a lot of graduates in Engineering in the region in question. Such does not solve the issue and is tatamount to eating scraps from the table. The system is flawed and needs to be addressed.

[quote author=A-town link=topic=298118.msg4209237#msg4209237 date=1247922749]Even a 1st grader knows Mend is not the Govt.
My point is that MEND does not have genuine intentions. (as far as i am concerned)
Only a fool will steal crude oil, sell it for profit and use the money to buy explosives to damage their own land.
Why can't they keep stealing crude oil and use the money to develop their communities since they claim they have been neglected.
They are just typical Nigerian thieves.[/quote]Because they are not an NGO or Government or even a "progressive movement" in terms of develolment and are therefore under no obligation to do so. Kind of like expecting an armed robber to steal and use the money to go and build a "motherless babies home". Such expectations though seemingly innocent and coming from a genuine place in my view only shows how cowardly Nigerians have become. So we have to wait for an armed group of people to come save us before we do anythng in that country? How embarassing. Why don't we start groups like "Movement for the Materialisation of Power Supply", "Movement for the Dualisation of Lagos Benin Express", "Movement for the Particulation of Justice", "Movement for the Manifestation of Water Supply", etc? I would have found your point valid and relevant if this was an NGO, or a non violent movement, or something along those lines; but expecting a militant group to fix the woes of the country in what is meant to be a "democratic" setting? Are we fighting communist or a military dictator? Shame!

[quote author=A-town link=topic=298118.msg4209177#msg4209177 date=1247921925]No citizen has the right to take the law into his/her hand.
Possession of guns and explosives by civillians in Nigeria is against the law.
All MEND members need to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
Innocent citizens died during the recent bombing.
This is murder. The punishment for murder in Nigeria is death by firing squad and MEND members should be prosecuted.

If MEND wants development why can't they use the billions of naira they recieve from their "sponsors" to develop the community.
I mean why would you rather spend 100 billion naira to buy explosives in order to bomb facilities when you can turn around and invest the money in the Niger Delta??[/quote]@ the part you highlighted in bold, I am not a fan of MEND but MEND is not government. You expect MEND to build roads, provide power, security, law and order, etc? Meanwhile what is government doing with our money? Isn;t such a route just plain cowardice to face the problem in government on the part of advocates of such?