₦airaland Forum

Big B1:
If you know something exceptional from the rest, your recommendation will also be greatly accepted!

I guess, horrors of today and tomorrow will be acceptable.

LOL, this is becoming a tad futile. I don't even have to make suggestions because there are so many threads that have done thesame. Some might say Pat Utomi, some Fashola, some Iweala, some say Donald Duke; Nigeria has a strong Professorship base many of which i think would do a good job, well known public speakers, etc. I mean, i will even take Buhari the alleged sharia lover any day over IBB, at least we might get some discipline. While i cannot personally vouch for any of these i just find your persistence on IBB being the salvation of Nigeria's future incomprehensible. So because you cannot think of any off the top of your head means they don't exist and hence Nigeria should revert back to a leader that its citizens detest? This is almost getting amusing, i mean, na by force?  Enough of the old blood and recycling, get someone who has not actually had such a huge hand to play in the present situation and someone who has not been president before, is that so incomprehensible.

Kobojunkie:
You sure say you no go buy club teeshirt soon?? roflmao!!

Great, you had to pick up on that  .
Regardless of what the poster might see as action the truth of the matter is that the idea seems to have caught fire and that is because there are actually people who want to do something (not saying the poster doesn't want to  ) Hence if some group that can put actions where there mouth is starts then that to me is a good thing. And if there is the obligatory disneyland or alton towers trip to 'talk' about the issues while on one of the rollercoasters i promise to lose interest after the first three trips 

To be honest anything that can lead people to be more proactive in building Nigeria both from home and abroad seems very worthwhile. This does not mean there should be no public push, but are the two methodologies mutually exclusive? I am yet to see how genuine this one is though.

Big B1:
Great conclusion.

I've looked and looked; and I find it very difficult to identify a single entity that has the enormous capability to effectively and efficiently lead this corrupt and uncivilized land.
Sometimes, it takes a crazyman to effectively deal with crazy people; it is that simple!

Perhaps it would help if you stopped looking in the box that contains 'the horrors of yesterday'?

Big B1:
Sorry guy:
IBB did not do this to Nigeria all by himself. This was done by everyone of us; and 90% of our problems will be solved as soon as we are sensible enough to recognize this fact.

IBB has been gone for over 10 years, but Nigerians still can not get it right.

It is clear, very clear indeed that our problem is bigger than IBB; IBB is only being used by Nigerians as a cushion (an easy justification) to make us feel good while the entire country continues to crumble.

It is extremely despicable to blame IBB for all our shortcoming; infact some of us even hold IBB responsible if it doesn't rain in our villages.
If moving forward is our main target, then we must immediately stop this ridiculous way of thinking. Together we need to identify our responsibilities and embrace them.
Without doing this, Nigerians will continue to cry for another 48yrs.

Perhaps you should try to understand that by people quite understandably rejecting any role for IBB in the Nigerian national life is actually them being sensible and all those things you accuse them of not being in the first place.While it might be despicableto blame IBB for all shortcoming of Nigeria it will be equally despicable to downplay the role such a character played in events by relegating his role as "minor actions" or anything of the sort, sorry but i feel not only despicable but also insensitive. IBB might not be the whole problem with Nigeria but he was definately one of them. As long as he remains a was some people might not mind. Again no offence intended but your post seems to be a contradiction in themselves, you urge Nigerians to move forward and grow up and then state that the way forward is a past leader who showed himself to be less of a gentleman than was thought; to put it lightly? I really don't think Nigerians want IBB anymore, can't some people just live with that? Out of the 140million plus people in Nigeria we are so short on capable leaders that we have to recycle old news?

OBVIOUS:
With a country soo full of resources, I wonder where they're all running too.

White man will be enjoying our land, us, we will be running away from that same land.

Oma she oo!!!

OBVIOUS:
I can't believe any Nigeria is seeking refuge in Italy/Spain, L O L

what a big joke.

? ? ? Nigeria has countless resources that have translated to what exactly? Does one really have to make the list of what Italy with is minute resources has that Nigeria doesn't? A list i am sure you aren't ignorant of. The white men that are apparently enjoying the land, are they earning anywhere close to the ammount that average Nigerians are earning? And are they earning such while also living in Nigeria aswell? Even the German coach that was hired for Nigeria was criticised for spending too much 'holidays' in his homeland while the team he was 'managing' was in Nigeria, LOL. Even if Nigerians sought asylum in Ghana i won't be surprised. Nigeria seems to have earned that position

Kobojunkie:
All the revolution Nigeria and in fact, most of Africa needs is for the people to get up and start playing their part in their government. Simple things like writing to your reps, calling them to tell them of your stance on issues, making sure to vote for candidates you truly believe are better for the job, and voicing your opinion goes a long way. Trying to create yet another "CLUB" in my opinion is not the way to go about this. Setting up a situation where all persons understand that they are part of the problem and providing them with information on how to FIX it, will work wonders. Just my opinion!!

I don't disagree with you, but such can be achieved in various ways and even through various groups. As long as this is not just a "Club" where we all buy the T-Shirts and have monthly meeting in disney world without doing anything, but a groupd that is actually focused on achieving something or with some vision of some sort then i don't see any problem with it. The problems in Nigeria are so many that specialising in one of them and trying to find a way alleviate that are might actually help. You have groups like "the integrity group" in the house of assembly although i couldn't personally vouch for them, they have a vision which they strive to actualise. To be honest what caught my attention was the whole naming and shaming idea on this thread  . Such might actually be effective if it was actually going to be broadcast in Nigeria, unfortunately i am still yet to be convinced that Nigerian leaders actually have such a thing called shame, but it could serve as an informative means of educating and enlightening people.

Your idea of educating people to stand for their rights and vote more sensibly that is if votes even count in Nigeria and such could yet be another area to focus on. The problems in Nigeria are so many that i don't really see anything wrong with a serious group of people with a plan to actually do something in a certain area, if the group is serious and actually has a plan, etc then kudos.

Oh please, if being developed means sending rockets to the moon then i will gladly prefer Nigeria to be underdeveloped and concentrate on things like working infrastructure, education, an effective law enforcement agency, creating employment and diversifying the economy, constant power supply, etc. Funny enough Nigeria actually has a space programme, the irony.

dayotee2:
Hi sky blue: I understand you stand on this issue and I will like to register my respect for your opinion. Yes OBJ did his best, if his best if enof is another issue but to me his cabinet of brains is still the BEST we have ever had in the history of Nigeria till date. The current governement cabinet is a national disappointment, crops of heads that knows nothing about there appointment, No apology.

on the FOI bill, am afraid you are very wrong to state that OBJ didnt pass the bill, Bills are not passed by Mr. president, that is the work of the national assemble and if they choose to trow the bill out as they hv done, it is not the president's fault.
don't you think you will be unfair to the man of the house if after releasing fund for cooking and the woman refuse to cook or she spend the money on her hair in salon?

There is more to governance than the president, The president is 1 person, there are others that can either make governace get to the people or NOT.

Imagine what would happen if we start talking and analysing the government of Abacha, IBB, Abubaka, Buhari e.t.c ,

It is easy to pass blame, OBJ has given Nigerian a BIG room to pass blame on HiM but we forget he is in the PAST and there is no FUTURE THERE.

I am afraid you are wrong in stating that the house has the sole responsibility for bills. Go back and read up on why the FOI bill was not passed again. It was finally passed by the legislature, the president was required apparently to sign it into law, just as president bush signed the hundreds of billions of dollars of bailout as part of law, right? President Obasanjo did not sign the FOI bill into law because he had a problem with the name 'Freedom of Information' as opposed to 'Right of inmformation' or something like that. Yes folks, it was that trivial an issue. Don't take my word for it, just do some basic research.

I have provided a link of which there are many, to a press release concerning the role Obasanjo had to play in the whole FOI saga: http://www.rap21.org/article18995.html

Yes there is more to governance than one person and if peope hold the right people accountable then government which is already in my view too huge and bureucratic will become more effective. I guess you just have to accept that in this case people feel Obasanjo deserves some of the blame he gets. My concern however remains primarily on this current administration and the seeming lack of will to actually do anything at all. An even more scary thought when you consider that there is actually meant to be a constitutional review going on and no one seems to be hearing anything about it with regards to news, progress, etc.

pamboogie:
@skyblue, don't get me wrong. i'm not saying these past presidents had no sin, i'm saying 'Nigerians, stop complaining and add ur 2cents positively' we all have a part to play in nation building. Nigerians are quick to put people down. obj did the best he could while in office, yaradua should continue from there instead of going back and lets see if we wont get results

You keep on stating that OBJ did the best he could during office and you paint this Mother Theresa image of in every action always having the best for Nigeria at heart. Sorry, but i find this hard to believe. Is this just your perception of the situation or were you with him in the office or at home? If it is your perception that he did his best perhaps you should state it as an opinion and not so boldly that it gets perceived as a concensus. I even find it harder to believe that 'he did his best' when you consider the amount of wealth the person in question had before he became president and after his tenure expired. Check the salary the president earns and the state of Ota farms then and now, it does not take a genius to figure out that things don't add up. So I am guessing inbetween doing 'his best' he was able to put personal wealth before the interest of the nation? In the spirit of openness why did it turn out to be that OBJ became the president that refused to sign the FOI bill into law just before he left due to such frivolities as the way the bill was named? Could fear of the power of freedom of information or politics have possibly come into play? If so does that not tarnish the image you portray of a man who was at every junction "trying his best" for Nigeria?

If you are satisfied with this as 'his best' then i feel sorry for Nigeria. So people can pull of such and pass it off as their best and hence we can relax because we now 'person A' tried his or her best? I never said nothing good ever came out of that administration but allow others the courtesy of pointing out what seems the overwhelming bad that seems to negate a lot of the good if there was a lot to begin with. If that was the best then let us be bold enough to state that the best was not good enough and not because Nigerians are impossible to please but because of a refusal to turn 40% into an A grade.

pamboogie:
Everyone's always quick to judge Obj, nobody sits down to think of the good he did while he was in office. the power situation is dragging now because everyone keeps dwelling on the past instead of moving forward. Obj's not God, he did the best he could. he laid foundations, only so much coulda been done in 8yrs. Nigerians everywhere are difficult to satisfy, nobody's ever good enough for them. We complained about, IBB, Abacha, Abdulsalami,Shonekan,Obj and now we're complaining bout Yaradua. Does that mean none of these men did right Men, people, live and let live. People perform to the best of their abilities. Let's encourage them.

Yes let it be reiterated that we need to focus on the future and what is being done in the present to get there, i.e. what is the current administration doing. However for this to happen then let us truly move on, but such won't happen when people keep on coming back with such award winning lines like "so much coulda been done in 8 years" or "he did the best he could"; you know this because? Are we being serious here? Really? What could have been done in 8 years? Is that really a question? Why don't we instead start with what shouldn't have been done in those 8 years? So if this was an employee you would be satisified with the job that was achieved in 8 years and billions of dollars later? And then the comparison about people complaining about IBB, Abacha, etc? Shock horror, i don't even know if that is a joke or not. So people should be grateful to such? Oh lord.

If moving forward is the plan then perhaps such lines of arguement should be abandoned by people who see complaining at failure as a sin and let us look at the present to see if the ground works is being laind for the future. Again, what is Yaradua doing. Electoral reform is what is needed because when votes count then perhaps PDP will finally be buried in the anals of Nigeria's history after the next election.

dayotee2:
A-town: yes 16Billion USD spent between 1999 and 2007. and we still need about $85B to have stable power in Nigeria according to Suleiman Bello, the executive vice chairman and chief executive officer of Power Holding Company of Nigeria, PHCN.

please see below refs for more on the NIPP project:

http://www.newswatchngr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=139&Itemid=1

http://www.nigeriansinamerica.com/articles/2605/1/Deception-Lies-Fraud-And-Farce-The-State-Of-A-Nation/Page1.html

http://allafrica.com/stories/200712040176.html

http://www.tellng.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=1

One point I think i should say finally is that our current president was the governor of katsina state when it was agreed among the governors and the FG to spend from the international reserver to fund the power project, one only wonders what happened to Mr.president to stopping the funding of the project for a year and asking for probe afterwards, with high claims of power plants lieing at different ports in the contry.

Am afraid @ fyneguy not all that speak well of OBJ are paid PR consultant as you claim, I am a positive Nigerian, open to informations and slow to judging people.

The truth is, there is no future in the past,

OBJ is not the future, he is the past, he has done his part, finished his script and done with nigeria, we should be done with him too, let him be,
Yar'Adua is the present, he should focus on the job on his table and stop the bad image painting of another man, he will leave there one day and YOU may be the future. NO sane people drive forward  by looking back.

A seemingly balanced arguement i have to admit, however before those $billions begin to roll of the tongue like it is water we speak of why don't we keep in mind that as a general rule of thumb, $1billion is meant to translate into 1000mW of power and possibly even lower for expansion of established power plants. So question, what do you think the actual power generating capacity of Nigeria is and what do you think it actually was before Obasanjo? Perhaps that simple but effective analysis will give you an idea into why people get so furious over the power situation. If i remember correctly NEPA/PHCN was recently sounding triumphant of the fact that Nigeria had a generating capacity of 3700mW, a record apparently. When you consider that people still had light during the eras of even Abacha and IBB you begin to wonder what the $billions spent have actully translated to. I however agree that we should be looking at Yaradua right now and what he is doing as a primary focus.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=183816.msg2974573#msg2974573 date=1224619258]You'd better get well-organised, or all this will be is a colection of posts on nairaland. Enthusiasm is great, but you have to be a realist as well, and FULLY UNDERSTAND what it is you are up against, not surge forward all starry-eyed with revolutionary naivete.

I think it's a great idea. And one can start from anywhere, and this is a good place to start. Don't be disouraged. You certainly won't change things by concluding it's hopeless and folding your hands. If and when you actually move from the rhetorical phase to an actionable plan,let me know. [/quote]My feelings too.

The topic heading is quite amusing; Mrs Waziri Has Been Injected With Corruption? Though i get the metaphor, still amusing, the country is that messes up and corrupt that we now actually physcially produce corruption that can be injected into people? LOL. Now we know why people say the corruption is wide spread, that is what they put in the vaccines isn't it?

Implying that she was just previously 'injected' with corruption might perhaps speak more to the character of Mrs Waziri that just after a relatively short period of time in office she has already been 'infected'. And furthermore i agree with previous posters, any discussion not leading on to actual genuine physical action or effort just seems like a complete and utter waste of time. What would such change?

McKren:
Not exactly sure why IBB considers it necessary to speak out now

Is BigB1 right Does IBB still nurse Presidential ambition

Time will tell . . . . . . . . this man has not spoken publicly for so long. To go to AIT himself for this interview is never for the sake of it.

Your skepticicm on a possible repentance or genuine transformation on IBB's path while completely founded and understandable is nevertheless quite amusing to read. I guess that is a testament to the legacy such a person has left behind, a country of traumatised folks both home and abroad. News-IBB goes to church; respones-oh lord he's planning a coup  .

To be honest i really don't care much for wether IBB goes on live television to ask for repentance, as long as he doesn't seek power or public office under the current climate whereby PDP can easily rig anybody into power and have it still stand in the courts. A more daunting prospect when you consider the fact that the general in question did pick up a presidential ticket last elections. At least if there was an actual working democracy whereby votes counted then people like @McKren could be a bit more relaxed because then if IBB seeks the presidency again the Nigerian masses would then comfortably tell him where to go (hopefully).

Enough of the continuous recycling of old leaders and arguably old trash, making a change does not have to mean running for presidency or more power. If he was so keen on 'making a change' then he could perhaps go into business or something, perhaps invest in a rail system or schemes that will alleviate the suffering which people could easily argue he had a hand in, basically do something more productive. However, given the past records of the individual in question it would be understandable if even the thought of him wielding power through business or 'helping' would still make people uneasy because of the power it might have or lack of a clearer definition of what kind of 'help' would be given out. So i am guessing the only available options for IBB with regards of ways to help the nation are just basically things like, picking up knitting or some hobby of the sort? That does not involve interferance with the national or state arena or government? LOL.

@poster, thanks for modifying your post to explain better

Mariory:
These banks also need to borrow from one another and from international banks. If the cash flow is non existent, they will be in trouble as well. That's one point of view.

Even if this was the case, which i have to point out based on reports it isn't, that would still not make any sense whatsoever since Nigeria has a pretty much non existent mortgage market or anything resembling a diverse or deloped economy for that matter. So what now, whenever banks want money they just stop lending to each other like a three year old throwing a tantrum? Again, based on news reports inter bank lending in Nigeria is if anything very healthy.

?? What has creating parks got to do with the traffic situation and how is that going to curb it? Do people hang out on the road side for recreation due to lack of parks? Sorry, might have misunderstood what you were trying to say, not quite clear. The traffic situation, isn't this due to road works that are being carried out all over the place which when completed will hopefully alleviate the situation? If this is the case then it seems a necessary evil. Lagos does need a serious decongesting of its roads and one way to achieve this was the BRT scheme. If this is expanded and new modes of transport introduced like using of the water ways and rail then things will ease up. This is vital and i believe such things have already been looked into, it is meant to be one of the most populated cities in the world afterall.

I was also unable to understand or comprehend the news. Really, i was just lost for words too. Maybe i am not seeing something that others are

Jakumo:
Megida, come buy am fwa kwarret harregnal fassfort. Me is go chell am fwa you na gaskiya frice siri handared naira.

Yan get am fassfort fwa Hamurica. Yan get am fwa Foland. Yan get am fwa Fakistan. Yan get am fwa Pilipines. Yan get am fwa Saudi. Yan get am fwa Hafuganistan. Walahi Talahi fassfort dey felenty-felenty, baa magana, no foroblem.

LOL, it took me a few seconds to decipher that 

udezue:
Em what are u talking about? U lost me.

A poster used stats on how many people where killed by the military during the whol Saro Wiwa fiasco to make the point that the whole ;struggle' then was in fact not a peaceful one. The point i tried to actually make was that it was peaceful on the part of the Ogonis who kept putting the focus and spot light on the issue of the massive underdevelopment, environmental degradation due to operations of oil companies with no benefits seen by the indegenes, etc. Using the arguement that a military dictator in a military and opressive regime responded the way he responded just seems laughable to me. It is like expecting to see hitler win nobel peace prize.

udezue:
Biko tell em.

A military dictator and his regime of opression acted in an opressive like manner and this surprises you? And this is seen as a valid excuse for the subject in question? Is this not meant to be a 'democracy'? I thought this topic was long dead, i purposely did not respond to Ibime because i just found it to be a lesson in futility. To each his own.

RichyBlacK:

He landed on very soft Lagos poto-poto.
Nigeria1@ is well and good; mama put eba plus cold coke don do better job for I'm bodi.

To be frank though, I like Nigeia1@'s use of satellite images , it puts ideas in pictures. Let us just encourage him to reduce the sizes of the pictures or just supply the links. My pipty cents!

Honestly though? Honestly,  . . . . . are you joking? LOL. Thesame arguement is used for every single thing and it is almost ludacris. What exactly do all those satellite images argue? That the census was wrong, right? Now, who on earth does not know the Nigerian census was far from accurate? It is like me spamming Nairaland with images to show that the elections were a fraud and using that as a case for every single thing.

Your garri is too hot - election was a fraud
Your garri is too cold - election was a fraud
Your garri is too much of the right temperature - election was a fraud

I wouldn't even need to use images since it is quite possible to argue using words of logic and reasoning. It is also like me spamming Nairaland to prove that the Nigerian Police force is corrupt, i mean, is it necessary? I actually now feel silly for further indulging "he who must not be named" in this little charade and will try to ignore the posts from the poster. I have tried sitting down to reasoning and informed the poster that he was not stating anything groundbreaking or new but he just ignored this and kept on arguing those same lines. I guess i am too stupid or too much of an "olodo" as the poster put it, to comprehend his level of reasoning whereby the answer to every single arguement is effectively, the Nigerian Census was false . Why don't i just start using the line "the government of Nigeria is generally corrupt" for every single arguement under the sun, coupled with probably diagrams that show detailed contours of Yar Adua's face? Yeah, i know, very ground breaking and absolutely applicable to everything, right?

Do people just want to live in denial or are those that are saying this is impossible actually have any arguement based on reasoning of some sort to support the position that this is not the case? Let us stop dreaming.
@Kobojunkie, the thing is you can force a horse to the stream but you can't force it to drink water. If someone genuinely wants help they will be more willing to accept it . So if help is not wanted what can people then do? Force help on a particular people?

I strongly believe that the solution is to remove such hindrances like quotasytem in education and employment, etc so that whomever wants to develop and advance will do so. When people see that a particular area is developed and has achieved such by hard work, accountable government, and a fairer society then whoever wants devlopment can work to achieve this. No area of the country should be put on hold for any other area to catch up. It is simply fair that way, the country is already in shambles and this continuous petting of certain egos is ridiculous. The continuous attempt at wooing common sense into existence is amusing. This idea of employment by implementing a quota syatem is simply hurting the workforce and civil service because it is not based on the best man for the job hence what quality of workforce would such a system be expected to produce? This is simply stating the truth and perhaps sincere and tough love not based on hatred but based on honesty and in the interest of everyone might be what is required. The North is grossly under developed when compared to other parts of Nigeria, the people of that region appear to have the highest percentage of 'uneducated' in the country hence the misjudged 'need' for a quota system that chooses people not based on ability to do the job, knowledge, skills etc but on ethnic affiliation; the north is one of the very rare places in the world were polio is still prevalent, the list goes on.

Those who want to get offended by such truth can if they want but this appears to be the reality. The question is not who can throw a tantrum about this the most or who can claim offence the most or indulge us all in phoney outrage but rather what is going to be done to improve the situation which seems to be in fact the reality.

LOL, i think the poster always has the images already arranged and ready for 'dispatch' whenever the service is called for. If you notice, a lot of the image sets are actually similar in order. Thesame ones used to explain every single thing under the sun

"He who must not be named" i am having stomach pains - satellite images
My spouse has left me - satellite images
I am not married - satellite images
What footprints have the colonial era left in place in the Nigerian national psyche? - satellite images
How does Nigeria position its Economy to tackle the possible effects of sub prime fiasco? - satellite images
Why has Nairaland become flooded with Obama threads? - satellite images

Why are you guys so harsh on him, don't you see he has the answer to everything? It is us who haven't yet caught up with him 

Oh Jakumo, what have you done. He had not posted a satellite pic in about 2 days and now you have gone ahead and called his name. What is wrong with you? You have just invited trouble back . He had been threatening to release new pics and according to him new ones are now available and then you go ahead and open a thread as an ode to him, what on earth do you now think will happen? .

At least you said it not me, although i might not have been that rude. I think ignoring the poster was working. Notice i did not call the name of "he who must not be named", apparently if you call the name of the poster, it/he just shows up on whatever thread the name was called to provide his 'services'. If you call the poster's name three times, well you have just invited trouble and you might as well give up on that thread. 5 times? 5 times ? ? ?  Do you want the apocalypse and 'the return of the images'? There was a formula to it, just apply it and ignore what you don't want to read. 

LOL, @Kobo you are still waiting for the Kinetic energy?  . On a serious note though, i think a law should be passed that stops people in public offices from opening their mouth and vommitting rubbish on the faces of the masses at home and abroad when nothing solid has actually been done to warrant such rants. It really is getting ridiculous. Of course i believe Nigeria has potential, the potential did not start today. Such potential will begin to bear fruit when actions are taken to make them achievable. But when no actions are taken to realise such then speaking about being upbeat and the potential just gets quite irritating. Honestly though i know this is a democracy but can people please stop all this vision 2020 threads without some kind of parallel thread that shows a solid positive action that has been taken to reach this? LOL. It is quite embarassing, enough talking, GET ON WITH THE JOB

South africa with less than a third of Nigeria's population has a generating capacity of 40 000mW, this 'press release' was to note that PHCN reached a record 3400mW. Congratulations PHCN  . Personally not trying to kick a dog when it is down but this should not even have been mentioned at all. They should have just carried on with the job without mentioning this because it is still abysmal, i mean, should people now go and throw owambe because of this? Even with the peak, stating that "some areas" were without light is nothing short of an understatemnt, a great one at that. Again, African country as an example: South Africa with industries, etc - 40 000mW; Nigeria with more than 3 times that population - 3400mW at its highest peak ever. Such information should not even be released but should be very highly classified (only accecible by the president) as to protect the already non existent 'national pride', when it reaches 30 000mW then they can release the news cautiously. 

What i just don't get is why people speak of a bail out as if its actually going to fundamentally solve anything rather than cushion the reality of the situation. Experts? For the past month and beyond, every week after yet another "catastrophe" occured some supposed "expert" normally turned up to say the worst was past, only to have to eat his words the next week when something else happened, quite amusing in a sick way. So what is the reality of the situation and what is a bail out actually going to fix? The reality of the situation is that the era of low priced crude oil and hence fuel (till it ceases to beused as such) is over. Why is this so? Is it just a phase? Was it because of the actions of MEND ( )? The US doesn't have monopoly on development anymore, China also needs energy, so does india, for their rapidly expanding economy and behemot sized population who also want "the good life" of industrialisation, energy, economical growth, indutries, etc; all which in on way or another rely on an energy source of which crude oil has become the most widely used and technologically at this point in time the most accessible. Hence, market forces at play.

This goes well beyond the whole mortgage fiasco and it started with rising energy costs. Such affected food prices, etc. What is required for the growth of industries and businesses? Well, America seems to believe it is credit and considering that a lot of businesses are leaving the states to asia due to cheaper labour, less stringent environmental laws, etc, what really could one expect? What is causing all this slow down in the American economy and threat of a recession? Is it really because of bad credit or the prospect that certain countries are not the absolute centre of development and economic growth anymore? Hence the need to share already limited resources? Should anyone really be surprised at how wall street reacted to the situation that preceded the subprime issue? Wall street historically due to its set up i guess, is quite easily phased by rumours and speculation. Whole companies can be brought down based on speculation and fear mongering. A healthy bank in the UK had to be rescued via a merger because of speculation and fear mongering which saw investors running for the exits and hence share prices plummeting. That just shows what effects such can have on the stock market.

So in all of this what is a "bail out" which is just basically providing more free cash into the credit sector as oppossed to "bad assets" (am i right or did i misread something), so what is such going to actually fundamentally achieve in a year's time when all of these other issues still remain? Shouldn't more work be put into repositioning the American economy to handle the shift in the status quo if America is to deal with this?

Ibime:
I see three Republicans talking here but only Negro Ntns is articulating his point properly. Kobojunkie is playing her usual tacit game of not saying very much in order to look rational - but lacking any substance. Kobo, if you want to talk about who supports Paulson's plan or not, I think you will find most of the great and good are in favour of Paulson's plan. As for SkyBlue, if you believe the Republicans plan is better, why not tell us why instead of prevaricating over whether the Nigerian Army is a valid comparison for the situation or not. Analogies can be loose analogies, you know. I have drawn out the negative  points of the bailout and the positive points of the Republicans plans as well, so that everyone can see the whole picture as I see it. Negro, I will address your point later when I have time.

WOW    . At least i cannot be shot down for being presumptious, a thread to discuss the whole issue of the bail out, and it quickly degenerates into partisian discourse? For someone who seems to see a bail out as such an important thing it is quite dissappointing that you turn such an "important" issue into Republican vs Democrats, Obama vs McCain, etc. And then to further try and conveniently put anyone who has a view different to yours or does not agree with you into little convenient boxes of "Republican", "Democrat"? Quite amusing, especially when you consider you don't even know who i am, where i am, or if i am legible to vote. But because i disagree with you i MUST be a republican  . So those 90 "democrats" that voted against the bill, what was wrong with them? They were not "democrat" enough? LOOL. Sorry but i feel classifying myself by such terms as "republicans" and "democrats", "obamamaniacs" and "mccainanites" would be an insult to my person. You may see such as adequate means to state who you are but i don't, I see myself as being too whole a person to fall into such.  You created an analogy to,  i guess explain your position better and for an analogy that was meant to be the buffer or support to your arguement i would say it was important that the analogy held water and in my view it didn't for the situation at hand. I think all i need to say i have said. I was not redressing your analogy just to be a pain but simply because for something that was meant to paint a clearer picture of your view, it was fundamentally flawed and hence left me without understanding your arguement any better. I just knew where this thread was going and i think i am about done with it because as i said, such doesn't interest me. 

Ibime:
Let me draw an analogy here. . . . let us say a foreign country attacked Nigeria - and then Nigerian citizens refuse to support the Nigerian Army because the Nigerian Army always oppressed them in the past - who go suffer? The citizens will suffer. This thing is too serious to play the game of "let the fat cats carry their own losses" - because in the long run, all of us go suffer.

? ? ? You want to make a comparison between the Nigerian army (a national and hence government run institution that even gets its budgets from the legislative arm) and the free market (the private business and finance sector)? And then use this as basis to why tax payers should bail out the free market and private sector from mismanagement and self inflicted woes? So the whole ideal of a "free market" which a lot of people were once upon a time enjoying the fruits off, such an ideal or value of "it is business" should be abandoned and the people of a country should all chip in and save companies because business happened? I am sure there are much more convincing arguements to support a bail out that you can come up with than that. Anyway, i am beginning to get a feel for where this thread is going and i am not interested.

landis:
YES but never thought of that when they force AFRICAN countries through WORLDBANK/IMF.

They must go way of 'FREE MARKET', just like everyone else.

Otherwise, nobody will believe them with their economic advice to poor but resource-rich countries.

What exactly are we arguing about here? 

What's this i hear, capitalism is in trouble? Castro and the 'axis of evil' must be having a feel day with this, LOL . It would really be a shame if all of this just degenerates into Obama vs McCain, Republicans vs Democrats and hence partisian politics as it seems to be moving towards, surprisingly (perhaps not so surprising  ) on Nairaland for that matter. I can see this quickly turning into another "all hail Obama" thread already. Let us not speak as if we are not able to understand why people might not be for the bail out. Inspite of what the poster might think, not everyone i.e the ordinary folk are in support of a bail out. Why? Why should tax payers pay for the bail out of bad businesses? Is that so difficult to comprehend? If you open a business and run it wrecklessly are you also going to expect a government bail out? Sure arguements can be made that the circumstances are "special" because it puts the ordinary people at risk of financial crises. But to speak as if only an idiot would not support a government bail out seems to me to be nothing short of being condescending.