₦airaland Forum

Great move by NJC. It will be a great disservice to the judiciary arm of government if they back down because of one illiterate from Daura.

This is what you get when you elect an intellectual deficient fellow to lord over intellectuals. SMH

Hello OLAADEGBU, how are you my brother? I've not heard from you since our last discussion here https://www.nairaland.com/3323018/sunday-christian-sabbath/4#50369542.

Yes, I saw some of your comments below. And as usual, I felt deeply disturbed and worried because of the falsehood or misunderstanding it portrays, which is what I want us to correct.

OLAADEGBU:

The Sabbath given to the Jews was a ceremonial law and Jesus has fulfilled all ceremonial laws and ordinances when He died on the Cross. The Sabbath was given as a sign to Israel (read Exodus 31:13-17). If you study your Bible you will discover that the Sabbath has not been given as a sign to the Church. For millenniums after this commandment was given to Israel we can still see the sign that separates Israel from other nations, they continue to keep the Sabbath holy till this day.

I don't know why you keep on making the mistake of saying the Sabbath was given to the Jews when it is evident that the Sabbath was created right after Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:1-3). This occurred over 2,000 years before the first Jew (the man named Judah) was born. The Sabbath was never merely for the Jews, or ancient Israel. The Sabbath was made “for man”—first, for Adam and Eve in the Garden, and for all other men ever after. Why are you finding it so difficult to come to terms with the truth

And what is it that you mean when you say Jesus has fulfilled the Law—that we're freed from it—Jesus kept them on our behalf? Wow! Then if the "laws has been nailed to the cross", let us kill, fornicate, steal, blaspheme etc. After all, haven't we been set free from its bondage? SMH for this kind of delusion! John 18:18, "And a ruler asked him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?". Notice Jesus reply in verse 20, "You know the commandments.......". Jesus never said, "Well, I would have tell you to keep the commandments. But since that's what I'm here to keep in your stead, just believe in my soon-to-be sacrifice". No! Instead, Jesus reminded this man of the commandments and also went on to recount some of them to him! Now, coming to Matthew 19:17 of this same account, Jesus was even more direct here when He said, "....if you would enter life, keep the commandments".

Oh! You may say "Jesus actually gave us a new commandment, which is LOVE". And so—what is love? 1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome". Love is the commandment and the commandment is love! But haven't you been saying that the commandments are "burdensome and a yoke"? But God is saying there're not—His laws are not grievous!

Lastly. Yes, the Sabbath is a SIGN between God's people. For who are the Israelite—the Jews? Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal". Here, we see that Christians are also Jews and circumcised. Brother, are you a Jew by descent? No, but you're called a Jew, and by extension, an Israelite!

And what do you mean that the Sabbath SIGN wasn't given to the Church? Speaking of Moses, the scripture says, "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness...." (Acts 7:38, KJV). The Church didn't start in the NT, it existed also in the wilderness! And as we have it today, it is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the builder! (Ephesians 2:19-20). So what then are you saying

In conclusion. It is obvious that your understanding of scripture is very shallow, which is the more reason why you need to submit yourself to those more enlightened than you, for a fresh start on the "basics and elementary". And count yourself not yet a Christian, for Christians are SANCTIFIED by the truth (John 17:17), and these truths you have not. Which is why your own brand of Christianity is in doubt. Please feel free to contact me at any time for more enlightenment. For I am also one under a teacher and receives instructions from superiors when in need. Peace!

raphieMontella:
hello!
I just have three questions for you....
From the bible...
You believe jesus is God's co-equal right?
Luke 2:52
Can God grow in wisdom?
is God not supposed to have infinite wisdom?

John 14:28 & Matt 26:39
Is the statement in matt 26:39 not only possible if Jesus is lesser than yahweh?
If Jesus was God,why would he try to get out of his central mission?
And why would he ask God to do so---in God's will?
If he is God,,He should be able to remove it himself


John 5:30 & John 20:17
is John 5:30 not a statement of subservience?
Can a God have a God? If they are equal?

Hello my brother, thank you for your questions even though insincerely asked. I said insincerely asked because you've clearly ignored the truth in John 1:1 & 14 and instead churned out questions which best suits your belly. Trust me, learning this way only breeds what some people called "endless contradictions & confusions" in the bible, where there's none. Nevertheless, your questions will be treated accordingly.

Yes, a lot of people got confused and can't make sense of the fact that during Jesus earthly life, He relied on God (Father) for everything, and also spare no time in giving Him glory and honor, while He (Jesus) is also God. But the mistake they made is ignoring the many proofs of His Godhood and instead settles on His earthly life as a human. Like I've said earlier, learning this way brings in confusion, denial and hypocrisy. For how will you make sense of His earthly life as just a human or Son of God, with the proofs that points to His Godhood from the very beginning?


Why Jesus Needed Another God; Even Though He Was God


We'll make sense of the whole thing shortly. Listen:

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" (Philippians 2:5-7, RSV).

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness (New International Version).

Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to (New Living Translation).

I quoted these three translations just to drive home the points—the import of what you're reading! You can't afford to miss this understanding! Jesus, though being God, had to emptied His full glory having found Himself as a man! And this thing did He of His own accord! (John 10:18). Now, there's two possible reason for this emptiness: 1. To lay down His life for mankind. 2. To fulfilled prophesies.

Jesus Is God


In John 1:1-14, Jesus is called the Word. In the original Greek, the term “the Word” actually means “Spokesman.” While Christ only became the Son of God at His human birth, He was an eternal Being—He was “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life” (Heb. 7:3).

Plainly, these verses speak of Jesus Christ both before and after His human birth. Only one God Being “became flesh and dwelt among us.” But verse 1 reveals more! Notice it says that Christ, the Word, “was” God and was also “with” God. This can only be possible if TWO separate Beings are being described. These TWO eternal Beings—Personages—existed before any of the physical universe had been created. They existed from the beginning and earlier.

Ephesians 3:9, written by Paul, confirms John 1: “God…created all things by Jesus Christ.” Having been “the Word”—the Spokesman—for all eternity, Jesus said many times throughout His ministry that He only stated what God wanted Him to say. Since He was “the Word,” we can understand why Psalm 33 states, “By the Word of the LORD were the heavens [the universe] made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth…For He spoke, and it was done” (vs. 6, 9).

Understand what we have just read! The Jesus Christ of the New Testament was the God of the Old Testament. They are not two separate Beings. Notice this plain passage, ignored by almost all: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they [ancient Israel] drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (I Cor. 10:4). Brother, can you in all honesty still think Jesus as not God?

I believe your questions have been thoroughly answered conveniently. You've been enlightened no doubt. What you do with this new understanding is entirely your business. Bye now.

You mean he's gonna eat those creepy things Damn it! Our soldiers deserved more!

chacoonder:
Lol...The fact that you fail to agree with my stance makes you the learner here.Go and learn more about your bible.

The same bible you can't even understand glaring verses like JOHN 1:1 & 14?

Hmm. I know one thing about ignoramuses- pride!

chacoonder:
My friend, Jesus is not the Almighty God...or how can a god be praying to himself?

You want to learn or argue?

shabakm:
bross is like you dont understand bible jesus has never declared his a God because according to bible Matthew 19 vs 16-17 i court . now behold one came and said to jesus good master what shall i do to have eternal life. jesus said to him why do you call me good? no one is good but one that is God. according to bible jesus is a servant of God. in the book of acts 3 vs13 the God of abraham, isaac, and jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His servant jesus whom you delivered up and denied inin the presence of pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Brother, I speak what I know and sure of. If you care to know and will humble yourself, I can conveniently prove to you right in the Bible that Jesus created all things there is today- He's God, co-existing with the Father from the beginning.

You don't have to quote scriptures out of context to justify ignorance. I expected you to make sense of Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58. Note, the "I AM" is the context.

Until you can make sense of it, you don't really have a case.

atoleybaba:
typical way of ending a conversation when u can't defend urself..just stop teaching false things so God anger wont be on u

Hmm. I repeat, go ahead and wallow in your ignorance. You deserve it after all.

atoleybaba:
enlightened with d rubbish u preach? No thanks...u guys preach what is not in d bible, the main reason y people leave christian homes to become atheist all in d name of covering ur false teaching, u twist d bible to ur taste and u Dont even twist it sensibly, u twist it in a way that educated interested person just look at d bible and call it trash.... U guys are d main cause. I will advise u to contact d witnesses let them sharpen ur mind spiritually and drop ur ego

You ended up saying nothing but gibberish. Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance. SMH

atoleybaba:
excuse me Mr christian....it was not Jesus that made that statement in exodus. It was Jehovah, the creator of Jesus.... Op my question to u is when did Jesus make that "I am" statement?

I can see that you're crawling on all four scripturally. Such needless show of ignorance.

Anyways, if by any chance you want your darkness enlightened, you can as well humble yourself and ask for it.

You mean the NPF has been divided into PDP and APC forces? What a first! SMH

OLAADEGBU

Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath wants man to enter into His rest.

Interesting! Yes, Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath wants man to enter His rest. But how does man enter into His rest? I think we need to quickly deal with this important question.

Entering His Rest

"As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall never enter my rest'" (Hebrews 3:11) sets the tone. Here, Paul is actually quoting Psalm 95:11. Now moving a bit further, a question is asked, "And to whom did he swear that they should never enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?", verse 18 of Hebrews 3. Because of disobedience, the people at "Meribah, as on the day at Massah in the wilderness", God swore in His wrath that they will not enter His rest! It was a rebellion (as is happening today) which they paid dearly by forfeiting their salvation. This is why as an admonition, Paul again quoted psalm 95:7-8, "Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion......." (Hebrews 3:7-. And what exactly is it that the people rebelled against- what was their disobedience? We will see that it was the Sabbath—a rest for the people of God.

Continuing, Paul said, "Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it", (Hebrews 4:1). This is serious! In effect, Paul is saying "let us fear lest the same fate that befell the people in the wilderness befell us too!". Is this not a warning too great to ignore? "For we who have believed (kept the Sabbath) enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall never enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world", verse 3. God didn't need to rest! He did it to show as an example of rest that Christians will enjoy in the future after their works on earth! Which is why the Sabbath was given to man as a Law for him to reflect on this day and thank God for this future rest from all of his works!

"For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way, "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works", verse 4. Now, the connection with the Sabbath and "entering His rest" is gradually building up. "And again in this place he said, "They shall never enter my rest.". Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he sets a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.", verse 5-7. Yes, "Today" is another opportunity God has given to those who will hearken unto His voice and enter His rest. Will you still harden your heart

Lastly, "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God; for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience", verse 9-10.
This is unmistakably clear! Understand something here, dear brother. No matter how hard you try to twist this plain words of God either by allegory or philosophy, the fact remains that entering God's rest is directly tight to keeping the Sabbath! This Sabbath rest is dual in meaning: 1. a temporary rest from works on the seventh day. 2. a future permanent rest after one's life on earth, just as God did at the end of His creation works. Make no mistake, the Sabbath Law is as effective and binding as the law of gravity!

So therefore, we must strive to enter that rest—keep the Sabbath, and refrain from disobeying it! I tell you, there's so much at stake here. This Law is just too important. So little wonder then why it is the most attacked of the laws by Satan. Do you know why? Listen:

In Exodus 31:12-17, God made a special covenant with Israel regarding His Sabbath. Continue in verse 13: “For it is a SIGN between Me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify [set apart] you. You shall keep the sabbath…the seventh [day] is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD …Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath…for a perpetual covenant. It is a SIGN between Me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested.”

Recall that this last phrase proves the Sabbath was established from the creation week, over 2,500 years prior to Exodus 31. What a stunning understanding! For the fact that this is the only Law God said is a sign between Him and His people—those belonging to Him, makes it the most hated by Satan! God explains that His purpose is that the Sabbath “sanctifies” those who keep it. They are set apart as belonging to—being owned by—God. Christians are told, “You are bought with a price; be not you the servants of men” (I Cor. 7:23) and “You are bought with a price: therefore glorify God” (I Cor. 6:20). Dear brother, do you understand the import of what you're reading? Please you can't afford to miss it! Pray and ponder over it.

I've said so much to convince any true seeker of the truth about the Sabbath, but this doesn't mean I've exhausted my resource. In fact, this is just a small fraction of the truth.

In conclusion, "Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today, when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion....".

Please send it to: alexjhn439@gmail.com

I accede that Jesus kept the Sabbath as He had to keep the whole Law so as to be the perfect Lamb to be sacrificed. He came to fulfil the Law and the few times He spoke about the Sabbath He corrected the erroneous views about it. Jesus at no time commanded any particular day to be kept as the Sabbath day. He said that Rest (Sabbath) was for the benefit of man and that we should be able to do good on this day. Jesus also made them know that He has the authority to tell them what the Sabbath is all about since He was the One who gave it to the Jews as a law (albeit a ceremonial one).

No, the Sabbath wasn't given to the Jews as a Law, rather it was given to man. It is important for you to understand and rightly divide the word of God.

What He meant is that no day, be it Saturday, Sunday or any other day should lord it over man or put him under bondage, that man should be lord of the Sabbath (Rest) and be free to do good on this day.

Again, no. He said "the Son of man (Jesus) is also Lord of the Sabbath", not man. Plain! Why are you trying to twist the plain words of God?

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity (The Godhead)?

No, the Godhead isn't three Persons but two (Father and Son).

Again I said the Word means logos and not the Spokesman, get your facts right.

Hmm. I said in the "original Greek", i.e, ancient Greek. I take it to mean that you're not aware of the two: ancient and modern Greek.
Now you go get your facts right.

This is why am interested in knowing your views on the Trinity.

God is not a trinity. And so, I stand on the word of God which have no such pagan doctrine.

He also rested on the 7th day.

Seventh day Sabbath, good.

Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath wants man to enter into His rest.

I'm tempted to ask: Are you confused? You said somewhere:

"that man should be lord of the Sabbath"

. And now, it is no longer man but Jesus? Why the contradiction? OLAADEGBU my brother, please put aside all preconceived ideas and accept God's word in its plainness. I'd continue shortly.........

ConcNiggress56:
i am decent and hardworking. i don't wear provocative outfits although i stay classy. this my father's agemate has been on my neck for some time now just to go down with me. i keep telling him NO and all but he won't bulge a bit. he's got a wife and kids.. i don't wanna ruin his home neither do i want to put my own future in jeopardy by sleeping with him..

however, jobs are very scarce in this country and i don't wanna lose this 6-figure paying job cos he keeps threatening to lay me off if i don't do his bidding.. what do i do?? please advice!!


mods.. i will appreciate if you can push this to fp... i am so confused right now... i need people's opinion.


cc lalasticlala, seun

The devil ain't gonna stop his advances neither should you let down your guard. Be vigilant and resist him always. Of course, be civil as much as you can with him.

Meanwhile, prepare for the worse. If he fires you, walk away. That certainly wouldn't be the end for you. In fact, it could even be an open door to greater things!

I applaud your decency and dignity. Keep it up!

Vick4rill:
hey it seems u did nt read the post and u jst jump in to start spilling rubbish. who is talking abt physical fight here? am trying to show the way,xtians can stop atheist frm sowing the seed of doubt in the mind of young xians, and u are here talking abt fighting spiritual forces. let me ask u hw do spiritual forces work? is it nt with humans that they uses for their activities?

Hmm. I perceived you're not just a baby in the faith and completely ignorant, but very rude as well. This is unbecoming of one who claims to be a Christian.

If you had humble yourself and take correction, you would have seen that I said it is pointless fighting atheists in whatever FORM, because a Christian warfare is not carnal!

You talked of fighting atheists, and I call you out as a brother not to dissipate energy on such misguided venture but rather focus it on the real enemy; not engaging in useless wranglings with atheists!

Of course you couldn't bear to hear the truth, so you decided to throw tantrums. Anyways, please save the body of Christ further embarrassment by desisting from making mockery of it. How can you show Christians (not xtians) the way when you haven't even seen the way?

Lastly, whoever knows and has the truth is set free and need not bothered about what atheists or anyone else says. This is because he has been SANCTIFIED by the truth!

Certainly yes, Jesus did declared Himself God, and indeed He is!

Here is the unmistakably prove of it: "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14). Also, this is another solid prove that Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament.

Hello OLAADEGBU, thank you for your interest in learning more of God's word. However, before I proceed, let me quickly make it clear that I'm neither a Christian nor a bible scholar.

Yes, I did said I have much to contribute to the topic at hand, and I'm here to do just that. It will be a bit lengthy because of the need to cover every details there is about this issue, and for proper understanding. Please bear with me.

FROM THE BEGINNING

We will examine many verses from the Old Testament. Of course, it is there that the Sabbath is first mentioned. However, one of the strongest verses in the entire Bible on the subject of God’s Sabbath day is found in the New Testament!

Speaking to His disciples, Christ said, “The SABBATH was made for man” (Mark 2:27). This is a powerful statement. Immediately following this verse, we read: “Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.” (This is repeated in Luke 6:5.) Any who wish to superimpose the idea that Christ did not keep and endorse the Sabbath must face this enormous first obstacle. This plain passage, recorded twice for emphasis, cannot be dismissed. We will see there is a reason it follows verse 27 as it does.

But what did Christ mean when He said, “The Sabbath was made for man”? Haven’t you always been taught, “The Sabbath was made for the Jews”? If so, why did Christ say, in the New Testament, “for man”? We must go to the creation account to find the answer.

The Real Beginning

Genesis means “beginning.” Most people assume this is where one learns of the beginning of God’s revealed knowledge. The true beginning of all things—where the account of God’s creation really starts—is not found in Genesis 1. It is found in the New Testament, in John 1. This is where the Bible records who or what existed before the creation recorded in Genesis.

Here is how John writes of the earliest time the Bible records: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things [“the universe” – Moffatt translation of same word in Hebrews 1:2] were made by Him; and without Him was not ANYTHING made that was made” (1:1-3). This is all-encompassing.

But who is “the Word”? John answers a few verses later: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth” (vs. 14).

In the original Greek, the term “the Word” actually means “Spokesman.” While Christ only became the Son of God at His human birth, He was an eternal Being—He was “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life” (Heb. 7:3).

Plainly, these verses speak of Jesus Christ both before and after His human birth. Only one God Being “became flesh and dwelt among us.” But verse 1 reveals more! Notice it says that Christ, the Word, “was” God and was also “with” God. This can only be possible if TWO separate Beings are being described. These TWO eternal Beings—Personages—existed before any of the physical universe had been created. They existed from the beginning and earlier.

Ephesians 3:9, written by Paul, confirms John 1: “God…created all things by Jesus Christ.” Having been “the Word”—the Spokesman—for all eternity, Jesus said many times throughout His ministry that He only stated what God wanted Him to say. Since He was “the Word,” we can understand why Psalm 33 states, “By the Word of the LORD were the heavens [the universe] made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth…For He spoke, and it was done” (vs. 6, 9).

Understand what we have just read! The Jesus Christ of the New Testament was the God of the Old Testament. They are not two separate Beings. Notice this plain passage, ignored by almost all: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they [ancient Israel] drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (I Cor. 10:4). We will examine this later in greater detail.

The One who led ancient Israel out of Egypt and through the wilderness was Jesus Christ of the New Testament! The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob—and David (Psa. 18:2)—was Christ! And Paul wrote that God created “all things—by Jesus Christ”!

Let’s read one final scripture demonstrating, from the New Testament, that Christ, in fact, was the God of the Old Testament who did all the creating: “For by Him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him…And He is the Head of the body, the church” (Col. 1:16, 18).

This passage is all-inclusive. The fact that it was Christ who created everything that exists in the entire universe must be understood before continuing.

Having established the real beginning and the Person of Christ, we'll now go on to the creation of man. Please stay tuned..........

Declaring a fight in whatever form against unbelievers is not of Christ, and I condemn it in its entirety.

In fact, it is a misplaced priority from a misguided fellow whose understanding of the Christian faith is very shallow. Do you want to know what we fight against? Listen, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). This is a Christian fight, not atheists!

So dear brother, do take correction and act accordingly. Peace!

Jibrin should know by now that his rants ain't funny any more. Please, excuse me that nonsense of "I holy pass you!".

Every thing about Buhari is fake, back to back! If he had any integrity, he would have rebuffed such deceit from his handlers.

But of course, Buhari is just as corrupt and deceitful as every other politician.

Hello OLAADEGBU my brother, greetings.

Having secretly followed your discussion with other notably contributors like: DoctorAlien and the rest, I felt as did by Priscilla and Aquila (Acts 18:26) , to take you aside and explain these things (as concerning the sabbath) more accurately to you.

Honestly speaking, you seems more interested in diverting from notably objections raised by DoctorAlien such as: 1. What is love? 2. How do we love God? And now add mine 3. What is sin?

Personally, I use no philosophy or human wisdom when dealing with faith matters, as I enjoyed savouring the undiluted truths from the pages of the bible concerning doctrines and teachings of this magnitude. And so if by any chance you feel competent and ready to take the three questions mentioned above, please do so strictly biblically. As the answers are readily available in the bible, and one need not manufactured any.

Yes, it is true that I have so much to contribute to the topic at hand. But before then, answering those three questions will set the tone for our journey (it will be a journey because we will go to the very genesis of this matter; indepth analysis).

Please, kindly put aside all preconceived ideas about the sabbath and await a replenish and refreshing thoughts from the presence of the "Lord of the sabbath". Trust you're interested?

Bye now.

Oh goodness, what have we done to deserved this plaqued?

If only zombies had an iota of human sympathy, they would have speedingly call for a national day of mourning, put on ashes and sackcloth and weep their hearts out as penance for the evil they foisted on us.

But regrettably, zombies will always be zombies. SMH

winner01:
But why always Jesus....

Oh I love Jesus.

Thank you very much brother. I just can't help but agree with that quote up there.

Simply because he's very vocal and refused to be cowed by this tyrannical government? Pity for our nascent democracy. SMH

Sarassin:
Very few reputable historical biblical scholars will stake their reputations on the Non-Existence of Jesus, the general consensus is that a first century Jewish Teacher/Rabbi of that name lived…..and was put to death for what was considered seditious teachings at the time. In my view if there are any questions to be asked it can only be with respect to the accuracy of the teachings and actions supposedly ascribed to Jesus.
Historical consensus agrees that the Gospels are wildly fictitious, and not just the miracle claims in them, although it is fair to state that universal truths are held in them.

Upon close scrutiny the Gospel of Mark which is the first Gospel shows blatant signs of literary fiction. The unknown author uses ancient Greek techniques of story telling, which really is the opposite of recording history. Effectively Mark is one giant parable within parables conveying theology. The later Gospel authors placed their own perspective on Mark. Matthew for instance corrects geographical, and Jewish theological mistakes that Mark makes. The Gospel of John diverges wildly from the other Gospels, but it's popularity at the time ensured that it was included in the canon.

The letters of Paul when placed under scrutiny reveals that he had no knowledge of an Earthly Jesus. His Jesus is derived by selected verses (taken out of context) in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the OT), and hallucinations. I would point out that although Paul states he met the brother of Jesus named James, we know that Paul calls everyone baptized in Jesus a fictive kin in a spiritual family (he makes no biological distinction with James). Therefore When apologists point at certain wordings by Paul for an Earthly Jesus they overlook Paul's use of allegory, and the literal Greek translation.

If one takes an honest look at the historical evidence for Jesus then by necessity one would have to be Agnostic on his historicity. Paul does not know about Mary, Joseph, the virgin birth, or anything Earthly about Jesus. Paul is clearly talking about a celestial being. The Gospels use a historic background, but contains evident trademarks of myth making.

Thank you very much my brother. I know quite well that you're speaking from the other side of the divide and wasn't expecting one from your background to disagree less, hence, I can as well bear with you.

Yes, it is true that I have lots of objection to raise, for example, tagging the bolden above as a "general consensus" (obviously believed by few people of like-minds), amounts to Fallacy of Hasty Generalization. This is because what you called a "general consensus" can be conveniently rebuffed by superior arguments supported by countless number of people of all classes.

Of course, raising this and other objections can only lead us to circle of endless arguments which is unprofitable to you and I. For which reason I'd say again, thank you very much for your contribution. Cheers!

Ranchhoddas:
The gospels are enough proof for anyone with a sincere mind.

Yeah bro. But sometimes, I think some people too sincerely don't believe in Bible proves because to them, they ain't even Christians to start with. Hence, the need to provide other external documents aside the Bible for their perusal.

Thanks all the same, you have a rock solid point.

Fayose at it again, stating the obvious to discerning minds.
Chibok girls drama have always had a political undertone.

Fayose at it again, stating the obvious to discerning minds.
Chibok girls drama have always had a political undertone.

Is there evidence, besides the Bible, proving that Christ existed?

This is a topic of much debate among many religionists and archaeologists. However, the account of Christ’s life, as found in the Bible—which is inspired revelation from God—serves as proof enough of His existence! However, there are other sources that contribute to the proof of His life and death.

A second-century theologian, Justin Martyr, wrote, “Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, 35 stadia from Jerusalem, in which Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registries of the taxing under Cyrenius your first procurator in Judea” (First Apology, chapter 34).

Martyr was referring to the records of Jesus’ birth in Judea that were still in existence in his day. But, since he was a theologian who would naturally support accounts of Christ’s existence, his account may seem invalid to the doubter.

What about historians against Christianity? What did their writings say?

One of such anti-Christian mentality was Cornelius Tacitus, a Roman historian, senator, consul and governor of the province of Asia. Concerning Jesus and His followers, Tacitus wrote, “Nero…punished with every refinement the notoriously depraved Christians (as they were popularly called). Their originator, Christ, had been executed in Tiberius’ reign by the governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate. But in spite of this temporary setback, the deadly superstition had broken out afresh, not only in Judea (where this mischief had started) but even in Rome” (The Annals of Imperial Rome, XV, 44).

Julian the Apostate (called such because he rejected Christianity after being raised in it), a fourth-century emperor, wrote, “Jesus, whom you celebrate, was one of Caesar’s subjects. If you dispute it, I will prove it by and by; but it may be as well done now. For yourselves allow, that he was enrolled with his father and mother in Cyrenius…But Jesus having persuaded a few among you, and those the worst of men, has now been celebrated about 300 years; having done nothing worthy of remembrance; unless anyone thinks it is a mighty matter to heal lame and blind people, and exorcise demoniacs in the villages of Bethsaida and Bethany” (Cyril Contra Julian, VI, 191, 213).

These are just two quotes from pagan Roman scholars who loathed Christianity. Since these men had access to government records, and hated what Christians believed and stood for, they could have easily “disproved” and discredited the existence of Christ if they so wished. But, because they could not do such a thing, their writings only add to the monumental proof of the life of Christ.

What about the Jewish people? If Christ did not exist, how then could the Jews reject Him?

In his book Antiquities of the Jews, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus writes about Jesus, His disciples and John the Baptist. He referred to John as “the good man” (XVIII, 5, 2). Modern-day scholars recognize Josephus’ account of the death of James, “the brother of Jesus who was called Christ” (XX, 9, 1), as genuine.

The Jewish Encyclopedia (1907 edition) explains that Jesus is also mentioned in the Talmud, the Jewish tradition consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara. These references to Christ are found in the sections Shabbath 104b and 116b; Sanhedrin 43a, 67a and 107b; and Sotah 47a. You may want to read an article entitled “Jesus of Nazareth,” from The Jewish Encyclopedia (1907), the articles “Jesus Christ” and “Talmud and Midrash” from The New Encyclopedia Britannica (1981), or the article “Jesus” in the Encyclopedia Judaica for more background concerning this subject.

These sources offer valuable information regarding the many proofs of the life of Christ. They point to the immutable facts that He: was born of a virgin, was of Jewish nationality, preached the gospel, healed the sick and diseased, and was betrayed and brutally slaughtered.

Mehn... Bleep her money! She better use that money and get rid of that odour o