₦airaland Forum

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]you just changed your words. and wasnt jesus a man himself[/quote]It was pretty obvious whose sin I was referring to. And I'm pretty sure you knew. Jesus was and is without sin, and death did not defeat Him. Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Now you can read up in your own Bible.

This discussion is over for my part.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]i disagree. it depends on what kind of sin. though i agree with one point of yours. jesus deserved death. his sin was causing communal violence and indirectly spreading hatred and causing most of todays World problems.[/quote]I never said Jesus deserved death. Don't twist my words.

Jesus did not sin. Do not blame Jesus for the mistakes of men.

If you understood my arguement at all, then you wouldn't be asking all these questions. I suggest re-reading it. I explained why time/beggining doesn't have to apply to God. There are many fundamental difference between God and humans. God is eternal - the human body is not. God is without sin. God is everywhere. Just to mention a few. So no, that "logic" doesn't have to apply to humans at all.

Also, the rest of your arguement aimed towards Jesus just shows that you have no knowledge of Christianity. Jesus died because death was necessary. The punishment for sin (in this case our sin) is death.
I still think my arguement is reasonable and I will leave the rest up to you. I also don't respond well to insults.
So my friend, this is it for me. I would love to continue this discussion, but when you can't discuss in a proper manner, I will leave before it gets ugly.

I wish you all the best!

Well, there are many flaws in your way of thinking. You assume everything needs to have a beginning. That is not necessarily true or a provable fact. Then you also indirectly bring in time. I will give you a "logical" example of my idea. God is not bound by our rules, and that includes time. It is said in the Bible that to God, one day is like a 1000 years, and a 1000 years like a day. Because you based your arguement on time, it will fall. There are many things we humans have yet to understand, and may never understand. So in a sense, we are limited. Therefore, disproving God, Who is unlimited, will not work.

Again with this "logic" of yours. There are many things which appears as illogical at first, but then appears as logical later. Agree? Jesus already defied your sense of "logic" when He died and rose again. Perhaps that Jesus came back alive seems illogical to you, but isn't the reason He died for us logical? He died for our sins so we can have a place in heaven. That is very logical considering our sinful nature. We will perhaps never understand how Jesus came back alive because it is beyond our understanding, but we do know the reason! So I ask you: why is YOUR "logic" so important to you? God is here, whether you percieve Him as logical or not. Isn't it then logical that your logic is not unlimited like God, so you cannot apply your logic to everything. God is unlimited and that's why there is nothing He cannot do.

As I said, it's up to you.

I told you where to find God, yet you keep arguing. Why is that, are you bothered? I mention Jesus because it is necessary.

Here's a part of an excellent article:

All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

Source: http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

comnsense: Unfortunately, you would have to demonstrate this God exists before you can confidently speak about what he might want or do or act. How come you know about this much about this God?

I don't need to prove God to you. God is everywhere. It's up to you whether you want to accept God or not. Jesus said:

Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me".

Look at yourself and realize how incredible your mind and body is, then look outside at nature. That is why I tell you: God is everywhere.

@comsense

What you percieve as logic might not be logic for God. If God wanted to stay out of what is called "human logic" then he could do so. Many times it is difficult to understand God's will. This is because we cannot always see God's logic before it is explained to us, or something takes place.

Africaman: Hi Starflux,

I think the dictionary is okay. I have perused it before, however I haven't really read the other books. But they do look alright. Aren't there any universities, colleges or community organisations offering short courses in Yoruba, where you live ? Maybe it would be better to attend such courses where you are based, if theer are any, that is.


Odabo

Hi!

I've been searching the internet for courses, but haven't found any. I'm in on this all by myself. I realize that my pronounciation will be bad, but I will be working towards a written exam only, so I won't have to talk. At some point though, I will wish to improve my Yoruba. I was actually surprised that a Yoruba exam was even available. However, there's always the chance that I will find someone who can help me out, but until then I rely on books and internet sources. I've looked at previous level 1 language exams, and they are all fairly easy. Mostly anwering a couple of basic questions and then write a short text about yourself or something. I think I will be able to achiev this in a few months time, even if only be memorizing the words.

Thank you again for these invaluable replies! I will make sure to read the site more properly. Maybe I will look into getting that membership.

These are the books I decided on:
Dictionary: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0781809789/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
Introduction to Yoruba: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0781810698/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
And another books for beginners + audio CDs: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0415700604/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Do you think these books are OK? They seem like the best available books as far as I've seen.


Thank you, Africaman.

chipmunkey: @OP YORUBA IS ONE OF THE MOST MELODIOUS LANGUAGES ON EARTH SO CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW JOURNEY.

So I've noticed! It's a very beautiful language. I also love the music. I'm not 100% sure if this song is Yoruba, but I think it is. Do you perhaps know what it's called?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1adMd9Agop0
Skip to 1.30 to hear the singing.

Hello!

Thank you for this wonderful explanation. I get it now!

I'm still having issues with the tones. I looked at this video to learn the tones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfCjC5jXriw&list=FL9JIyRUJaEPccXtEpVhJ6wQ&index=14&feature=plpp_video
But it doesn't say anything about words with different sets of tones like: ológìnní (cat) how do you pronounce this? First rising, then falling and then rising again? i dey shake my head well well for this oo.

Now on to the writing. In written Yoruba, is it common to use (`), (´) and the dot/line under certain characters as in (ẹ) only? Because I in my search for knowledge I have seen Yoruba with only these used, like in this text:

E̟nì kò̟ò̟kan ló ní è̟tó̟ láti kó̟ è̟kó̟. Ó kéré tán, è̟kó̟ gbo̟dò̟ jé̟ ò̟fé̟ ní àwo̟n ilé-è̟kó̟ alákò̟ó̟bè̟rè̟. E̟kó̟ ní ilé-è̟kó̟ alákò̟ó̟bè̟rè̟ yìí sì gbo̟dò̟ jé̟ dandan. A gbo̟dò̟ pèsè è̟kó̟ is̟é̟-o̟wó̟, àti ti ìmò̟-è̟ro̟ fún àwo̟n ènìyàn lápapò̟. Àn fàní tó dó̟gba ní ilé-è̟kó̟ gíga gbo̟dò̟ wà ní àró̟wó̟tó gbogbo e̟ni tó bá tó̟ sí.

The dots disappeared as I copied.

So, this is one written form. But I have also seen: ëwú àwötêlë (shirt), ëgbôn obìnrin (sister). In other words: (^,¨) and also (~) sometimes. Also, how do I say sister-in-law?

I don't have my books yet, so I'm not sure what they will say, but so far this is very confusing. I also saw this video, which goes more into detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGPtahOlx0 It is similar to this: [img]http://ls78.sweb.cz/images/DS-Yoruba.gif[/img]

What is the standard Yoruba alphabet with tonal marks I can use? Sorry to bother you with all these questions!

Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

The language is head-initial and as such qualifiers occur after the noun, which is the main element of the clause.

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Completely depends on whether your testicles are being squeezed or not. It's ok to wear tight jeans as long as they give you some space in the private area.

I'm not following your way of thought. Smaller European languages are under just as much pressure from English as African languages. This is not about African or European languages, it's about pressure on all languages from one language: English. French and Spanish really don't pose much of a threat. It's more or less English dominating.

And guess what? It's really easy to just keep talking your language. Problem occurs when people don't hold on to their own language. You must push your language forwards, not backwards by not speaking it. But I agree, English shouldn't be an official language in any African state. I'm not saying English is inferior, because it's also a language, but the world would be just a one colored place with only one language.

Ptolomeus: Hello dear friend.
Hopefully, one partner can advise you. In my experience, unfortunately almost all the threads that deal with issues of the Yoruba end deserts. Several years ago, looking for contacts I was informed that it was developing a Yoruba language software.
Unfortunately, on that particular issue, it's all business, and that hinders development of language and cultural knowledge.
In my case, I do not give much importance to phonetics, since I live far away from Nigeria, and I have not to talk to Yoruba, but if I have interest in reading and writing in that language.
In the past, I contacted the University of London, in order to know if they would publish the English-Yoruba dictionary of R. Abraham, but they answered negatively. Thanks to the good will of a friend, I managed to get a photocopy of this voluminous book.
The great difficulty that I found, is the tendency to get more words forming a single. That puzzled who is learning a lot.
Moreover, it is a very descriptive language (one might say that is poetic).
I hope one brother Yoruba aid contribution.

Hello! Thanks for the reply.

I see you mention language software, there is actually one available: http://2speaklanguages.co.uk/2speak-yoruba-software/?gclid=CJPM6ffvkbECFSU3cgodcmnucw
But I see you. 20mill speakers you would expect more available material, sadly that isn't the case.

Currently I don't have any friends/contacts speaking Yoruba, but I might start looking on Nairaland if I'm lost. So yes, I hope it sorts out too.
The main reason I want to have a proper grasp of the phonetics, is that I believe that would make it far easier writing it. How are you supposed to write phonetics if you don't know the sounds? Unfortunately, it is a written exam I have to take, which means I need to know the phonetics of the language regardless. Other than that, if you don't intend to speak, I can see the why you don't put much time into it.
Shame they won't release that dictionary, I wonder why?

Thanks again for the reply, friend!

Africaman: Hello Starflux,

Check out http://www.learnyoruba.com/ The section on phonology(which you can reach from the home page by the way) is here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/phonology.htm

I suggest you peruse the whole site. It is very informative and very instructive. For when learning the Yoruba alphabet, click on the letter and you get the correct pronounciation. It also teaches some basic morphology amongst other topics.

Good luck in your linguistic adventures...

Odabo

Thanks Africaman! I've been on the site before, but I notice now how good it really is.

Thanks!

[quote author=Isale_eko]I am surprised at people's responses to this.

This is pure common sense. The more you sit, the shorter your life span and that is a fact. Someone who sits at his chair for 8 hours a day, stands up from his chair enter his car, go home, eat watch TV, sleep, then watch TV all through the weekend and sleep at night is not going to last as long as someone who takes time to do some light exercise once in a while.

Your muscles get weaker from lack of active use, there is build up of cholesterol, and fat due to accumulation of sugars from lack of calorie burning. Well, add two bottles of coke and a three bottles of stout everyday and the life span even gets shorter.[/quote]theres a difference between sitting and being lazy.

jagbajantis

Just in case any of you saw my previous post a while ago where I decided to learn Edo, here's a little background information: it is not possible to take an exam in Edo in my current location, and I need a language exam before I can move on to university. Yoruba, however, is available. So this means I'll have to put Edo on hold, and start learning Yoruba enough for a level 1 exam which is fairly simple.

So I have been looking around for available material in the language, and I found two very promising language software products, which I plan on buying. That along with a few books. However, the only thing that is really worrying, is the phonology. Of course, I don't know the language, so to me written Yoruba looks absolutely unreadable. But how hard is the phonology learn in reality, both written and orally, and do you guys have any tips?

I'm also looking into getting audio CDs, so I guess that will help.

so sad

rest in peace, may you walk with the Lord.

No lie oo?

i dont know what to say. whatever you do, dont pass judgement. you did not sin, your husband did and he will be held accountable.

however, i hope for yout own sake that you recover from this happening.

The Bible says:

John 8:4-11 [They] said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of

adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus
declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

So don't condem your husband, forgive him. God will see your goodness.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept
pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Justice will come one day, don't worry.

Kolababa: People should not cast aspersion on any religion because of hatred. For somebody to say Islam has destroyed Nigeria is not fair. It shows the level of intellectual bankrupcy of the writer.
Our inability to respect the tradition and practice of other religion is what is causing disharmony in our society now. I have fought for Christian rights in many occassions despite being a Muslim. I dont know how wearing of Hijab is affecting the Christians. I have seen people preaching in the bus many times and i have not come across a Muslim stopping them from preaching because they are exercising their right. But yesterday, a Muslim sister was preaching in a bus and to my suprise, a Christian shouted her down that she was disturbing him. This is religious intolerance.
Religious intolerance is the main cause of religious violence in Nigeria.
PLEASE WE SHOULD TRY TO TOLERATE OTHER PEOPLEL'S FAITH.

indeed we should tolerate eachother.

deols: and u arent judging? Very hypocritical

na wa ooo. do you see anything in my post aiming at individuals or muslims in general? no be small thing arguing with people that cant read without bias. water don pass garri, whether you agree or not.

deols: this is how you cause trouble. I have always said that an average christian is more intolerant than an average Muslim. While a Muslim would however make bold claims to what they believe in and keep to them, the hypocritical christians would enschew cowardice and just move wv the flow with such claims as the 'heart is all that matters'

generalizing? many conflicts today are a direct result of islam. as i said, i dont hate anyone, it is not my job to judge, nor is it yours sha. all im saying is islam has caused great suffering and keeps doing so.

oj2alan: May God forgive ur stinking mouth!

why o? islam has caused so many conflicts. i do not hate anyone, but islam cant be allowed to win

Very happy news. God is good.

michelin89: @ topic

I don't wish to have such a baby. Thanks to the improvement in science, such kids can be detected earlier and expelled!

I don't want a baby that will never grow!

pleas, rethink what youre saying.

interesting

mohammed sef married 5 year old pikin.

na dis you defend? i no fit shout for some muslims tday.

i tire for you oo. you sound like pikin sef.

only a fool would throw away true love he can always.get thinner

abeg, give me my okra soup for chop and the meat will be forgotten

south africa dey deport nigerians for no good reason? chey, look at yourself. no be fun for the individuals involved, but action was required. how this increases "disrespect" is beyond me.

i would not give it the slightest concern before he's 6.

i am shocked to read some of these replies in this thread. "they should sing in english", implying that pidgin is some sort of inferior language. psquare are holding onto their identity, and using their own language. its a good thing.

mouth, mouth. give result before you open mouth.