₦airaland Forum

Michael547:
So who is the JEHOVAH in Psalms 83:18 in the screenshot below and who is the one speaking in John 14:28? How do we connect the two verses?

Jehovah in psalm 83:18 is the father but again David identified his Lord as Jehovah.
Psalms 16:2 O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;

Janosky:
Psalm 83:18 says NO in capital letters.

John 5:44 , Jesus Christ says NO in capital letters.

Psalm 83:18 is a prophecy about the future when Jesus his Lord will sit at Jehovah's right hand.
Who is David Lord?
Psalms 16:2 O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;
Jehovah is David's Lord.

Janosky:
Did your own Bible says that Israel is one being?
Israel personified as "He", doesn't support trinity.


When the Yahweh went to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it, it was reported that Yahweh called down fire from yahweh out of heaven, meaning yahweh on earth called down fire from yahweh in heaven.
There is a particular entity called "The Angel of the Lord" in the old testament, he his God, he speaks as yahweh and at the say time he is distinguished from yahweh.
In Isaiah 48:16, the person taking is God speaking but he distinguished himself from the Lord God and the Spirit.
Note the Spirit is placed on the same personhood with the Lord God but yet the spirit is distinct from the Lord God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

From this verses it is clear that they are three persons
1. Is the God that is speaking
2. The Lord God that is sending God
3. The spirit of God who is also sending God along with the Lord God.
All three are the same God but different persons.
The Trinity is in the old testament right from Genesis 1.

[b]
The prophet Isaiah is a Jew,he never claimed that the God of Israel & another spirit together "sent me".
You are just desperate to contradict Isaiah prophecy fulfilled @Matthew 12:15-18.
Oga Steep,Isaiah 6:6-8 is in your own Bible
Scriptures interpret scriptures but Trinitarians use scriptures to contradict scriptures.

John 5:44

New International Version
How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

New Living Translation
No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the one who alone is God.

English Standard Version
How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

The word "ONLY God" is the game changer.

The Supreme Being in heaven is the ONLY God. John

of cause the father is the only true God as against other gods but the Son and the Spirit are not other gods but same God with the Father.

Michael547:
Is Jehovah and Jesus the same person?

Jehovah is a name shared by all three persons of the God head, in other words yahweh is a multipersonal being and the particular person that became Jesus is yahweh the word.

Janosky:

Oga Steep, your own Bible did not say that the Most High Yahweh is "US." Not in Genesis.
"Himself" can't be 3 distinct persons you are worshipping, according to your doctrine.

now jws hypocrisy is exposed.
When God is called a "him" it means God is one person, but when the Spirit is called a "him" then it is not a person.
By the way Israel is referred to as "himself" even though there are many persons that comprises Israel.
The father is the only true God, this statement separates the father from other gods Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not other gods but same God with the Father.

Janosky:

Oga Steep, your own Bible did not say that the Most High Yahweh is "US." Not in Genesis.
"Himself" can't be 3 distinct persons you are worshipping, according to your doctrine.

Gen 1 vv 26

Michael547:
Since they are three persons, what are their names?

Jehovah

Kingsempires:
You made good point here,so my question is how do you see this verses; mat 26;39,mark10:17-18,john 5;30,44, mark12;29-34,john 17:3. mulsim sees this verses I wrote to be Jesus submitting to God almighty

Yes Jesus submitted to the father, the purpose of Jesus coming is to be that perfect servant who offers himself as sacrifice for the salvation of the world, see this scripture below,

Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

What does the scripture say about a son and a servant.
Malachi 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Since Jesus is the Son and fulfills the role as a servant it makes sense that he submits to the father.

And also submitting to God means Jesus Completely trusted in the father.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

I am not sure what the question here is?
But let me guess Jesus prayed by falling to the ground, this is Jesus way of expressing his emotion, it does not mean we must fall to the ground to pray.
Jesus prayed that not his will but his father's will be done,
When Jesus incarnated he became a human but with 100% of his divinity intact. As a man he had a human will which is deferent from his father's will.

Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus didn't say he was not good after all Jesus called himself the Good shepherd, Jesus was instead questioning the rationale behind the man calling him good because they say him as a mere man.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

First in the roles of the persons of the Trinity, so the office of the Son is dependent on the father.
Secondly as a servant he depends on his master.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

I have addressed this before, the word one is a plurality of unity.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

First, Jesus associated himself with God by including him into that which s necessary for salvation.
When Jesus declared the father as the only true God it does not exclude him and the Holy spirit because they are the true God.
Since the father, Son and Spirit are one God not separate Gods then what applies to the nature of the father also applies to the son and Spirit, so if the father is the only true God then the son and the Holy spirit are the only true God.

sonmvayina:
Bullshit..

Isaiah is the one writing and talking.
God sent him with a new spirit to become his prophet.....
God is not a man. Isaiah was consulting the Oracle....


Stop manipulating..

The person speaking called himself the first and the Last, and said "I am he'
And also he is the one that created the heavens and the earth.
This is God speaking.
Isaiah 48:9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off. 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Kingsempires:
In Christianity, they believe in the Trinity to be God divinity this is the proof from the bible that makes the belief of the Trinity


Isaiah 9;6,col 2:9,1 cor 8;16,2cor13:14, 2cor13;14,joh 10;30,luke1;35,mat 28;19,mat3;16-17,john14;16-17 e.t.c


These chapters and verses I quoted proofs the Trinity of God is Biblical.


But there is also places in the Bible that proof that Yahweh/Jehovah is the one and only God places like;


Isaiah 45;5-12,mark 10:17-18,john; 5:30,john 5;44 Exodus 20;3,deu 4;35, mark 12;29-34, Romans 3;30,1chron 17;20, Psalm 86;10 e.t.c


So this is were it confuses.Is it that the Bible is saying two different things.This is what the Muslims, atheist or some other religions will Said that the Bible is full of contradiction. So my fellow Christian can anyone fully explained the holy Trinity for does who those not really understand about Trinity and why is there difference explanation between this chapters I wrote above.


Please am not against anybody, anybody who have knowledge about this chapters should please explain the way others can understand it

It is not a contradiction. God is one in essence but three in person.
Allah in the Koran wants to be more than one person badly that he keeps using "we" everywhere. Again Muslims do not know the meaning of tawheed they say tawheed mean Allah is only one but tawheed actually means a unification of many things.
In the old testament God use the word "us" to describe himself.
The nation of Israel is called an "He" even though they are made up of many persons.
The word used to describe God's oneness in deuteronomy 6:4 is echad, and echad as used in th bible is a plural unity as against yachad which is singular unity.
When God said Adam and eve would become one flesh the word one is actually the echad which is the plural form of unity.
When the Yahweh went to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it, it was reported that Yahweh called down fire from yahweh out of heaven, meaning yahweh on earth called down fire from yahweh in heaven.
There is a particular entity called "The Angel of the Lord" in the old testament, he his God, he speaks as yahweh and at the say time he is distinguished from yahweh.
In Isaiah 48:16, the person taking is God speaking but he distinguished himself from the Lord God and the Spirit.
Note the Spirit is placed on the same personhood with the Lord God but yet the spirit is distinct from the Lord God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

From this verses it is clear that they are three persons
1. Is the God that is speaking
2. The Lord God that is sending God
3. The spirit of God who is also sending God along with the Lord God.
All three are the same God but different persons.
The Trinity is in the old testament right from Genesis 1.

LordReed:
LoLz. You lack the ability to counter Dan Barker's points.

Delusional, blind man.

LordReed:
Nope you're the stupid one who can't see what is sitting on his nose.

What did it begin from?

delulu, No it begins from you.

LordReed:
Weak and easily countered but you countered none of them.

you lack comprehension.

LordReed:
No it's you who can't see your own stupidity. And you even repeat it.

How is it the evidence of your god and not evidence for the universe self existing?

No its your stupidity, How can the universe self exist, is it not an irony?
Evidence proves the universe has a beginning.

jaephoenix:
If you cannot reason logically, then u can't reason properly. You shouldn't have posted the video in the first, if you don't understand what logical fallacies are

lol logic? You have no business mentioning logic. What do you know about fallacies?

LordReed:
It is for his personal god, he says so himself.



LoLz. The stupidity must be coming from you since at no point did I claim something can come from nothing. On the other hand you claim that nothing can come nothing but there is a special something that can self exist. What stupid people like you can't see is you cannot have it both ways it's either something can self exist or nothing can come from nothing.



LoLz. Oya produce the evidence for your god let's see.

You can't see your stupidity? How can nothing create something?
Who said God came into existence?
The evidence of God is the creation itself and the existence of morality.
Just as the evidence of gravity is that things thrown upward come back down.

Secular humanism has failed the west.
The woke liberal ideology is destroying the west.

UK riots: Why is Britain burning? Bagchi explains the options confronting PM Starmer & their impact
More violence has broken out in several cities across the UK in the wake of a stabbing rampage at a dance class that left three girls dead. The Economic Times spoke with Indrani Bagchi, the CEO of Ananta Centre, a think tank based in Delhi. Riots are posing a dilemma for Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Should Starmer prioritise political manoeuvring or focus on maintaining stability, Indrani Bagchi explains the UK turmoil.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/uk-riots-why-is-britain-burning-bagchi-explains-the-options-confronting-pm-starmer-their-impact/videoshow/112296049.cms

It is evident that nairaland atheists cannot intellectually counter the points raised but instead are hiding in shadows to throw shade. Bunch of cowards.

LordReed:
LoLz. How can it not be a specific god when Lennox claims he personal has a relationship with the god?

How does this counter his argument, the debate is not against or for a personal God but for the existence of God it is not a debate for which God is right or not.

What is nonsensical is claiming NOTHING can come from nothing then creating a special class of something that can self exist. That is pure nonsense.

This is stupidity at its finest, when has nothing ever produce nothing, can you give evidence that nothing can bring forth something?

Lennox is a typical believer full of faith in something he cannot sufficiently evidence but is so sure exists, yet when challenged claims you need special experience to come to that conclusion. Nothing special about his argument.

Either you don't know what evidence is or you deliberately ignore it.

jaephoenix:
Nice argument. Watched all through.
1.Only problem is he committed a whole truckload of fallacies while putting his point across.
A. Fallacy of Appeal to ignorance. The fallacy of appeal to ignorance, also known as the argument from ignorance or burden of proof fallacy, occurs when someone claims a statement is true or false because there is a lack of evidence or information to prove it otherwise. Example god exists because there is no evidence he doesn't exist. The mathematician John Lennox never dropped one shred of evidence about the existence of a god, but shifted the burden of evidence to atheists.
B. Fallacy of Appeal to Authority. The appeal to authority fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone accepts a claim as true because it was made by an authority figure, such as a celebrity, scientist, or expert, regardless of the figure's actual knowledge of the subject. In this case, he was quoting Einstein etc. Even though those authorities aren't even christians and didn't specifically say there is a god, it didn't stop him from using their words to promote his sham. Yet he still didn't provide any evidence
C. Fallacy of Appeal to Popularity. The appeal to popularity fallacy, also known as the ad populum fallacy or bandwagon fallacy, is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone claims something is true because many people believe it. This fallacy is problematic because popularity does not necessarily indicate something is true. A claim might be widely accepted because of cultural beliefs, social conformity, or misinformation. Not an evidence of god

2. Throughout his ramble, he was appealing to an unknown entity, which he attributed to a god, and not just any god, but his own personal god. His favorite candy flavor. He blissfully ignored the fact that there are thousands of other gods, who perfectly fits that narrative of an 'omniscient creator' but somehow only his fits the bill, even though he couldn't prove it/he/she/they/etc exists and the others don't.

3. Even if one decides to believe this his favorite god(for the sake of this argument), his only book which contains his instructions to us, is severely flawed in that it is scientifically, historically and logically challenged. It is also strewn with all sorts of errors and contradictions which if one pauses for a moment to reflect, doesn't point an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being.
So no, with his views, no intelligent and rational person would believe he destroyed atheism. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He in fact, proves blatantly, the ignorance perpetuated by religion.

This is purely an emotional response nothing logical.
The Mathematics professor never even appealed to the bible.
Prof did a good job

LordReed:
Listen to this from the same debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btJazTimH4M

Dan Barker"s argument are very weak and were easily debunked.
Firstly, the argument for the existence of God is not the argument for a specific God.
Secondly, the argument that God must be created if we are to go with "nothing can exist without a creator" is nonsensical because things that come into existence God did not come into existence he has always existed for all of eternity.

The Mathematics professed really did a good job.

bloodofthelamb:
.

I am okay.... Still glowing in his unmerited grace. How about you

Nice to hear from you, I doing great too we gives thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY8uDhaLJnk?si=YFFfj4CESPhI7Pfp

Will God send me ro hell because I dont believe in Jesus Christ?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes because Jesus is the only one that can save you from sin and its consequence

We are all headed to hell naturally due to our sin but Jesus came along to save us from that path if we accept his help then he will save us but if we reject his help then he will allow us end up in hell.

You are condemned by your sin but rejecting Jesus means you remain condemned.

Repentance from what and to what?

If it is not repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, you are wasting time.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not surprised at all,when the bible is swept as side and instead so called apostles, prophets GO's, personal visions and revelation now become the new authority, this is the product.
There have being attack on the authority of the bible as the word of God especially amongst professed christians, a push for egalitarian interpretation of the Bible, all ideologies of fallen men.

Michael547:
Oga so where does the Bible say that a conscious spirit survives the death of a man and continues living elsewhere with the thought of the man?
How do you explain Psalms 146:4?

It is the body that returns to the ground.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

MaxInDHouse:
For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God.

The context completely differs!

what is the context? Can an impersonal force have knowledge?

Michael547:
Show me a verse that talks of spirit as the invisible conscious part of man that survives death?

Below is Psalms 146:4....which other spirit does that verse say is conscious and that survives the death of a man?

The context of Ecclesiastes is from the context of "life under the Sun".

When man dies he has no portion on things done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

For example he said man has no prominence over beast but the context he is speaking is death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

According to ecc 9:5 the dead have no more reward, does that mean Abraham, Noah, Abel etc have no reward? No, this is only refering to participating in things on earth because that is the context of the preacher in the first place.

Michael547:
Show me a verse that talks of spirit as the invisible conscious part of man that survives death?

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
The spirit capable of knowledge and resides in man

Michael547:
Where did King Solomon say that the spirit continues consciousness?

Do Animals spirit also continue consciousness after death since they have the same spirit as man according to Solomon in Ecclesiastics 3:19 as shown in the screenshot below?

The word "spirit" cab be used in different context it can be just the breath of life which both man and animals possesses, it can be the invisible part of man capable of knowledge and emotions or it can be used to describe angels and God.