₦airaland Forum

FRANCISTOWN:
Then who created God?

God is not a creation.

The evidences of God are all around us. There is no creation without a creator, no morality without a moral law giver.
If God does not exist then we are just mindless atoms vibrating and moving randomly.
Without God there would be no creation.
Without God no morality, morality becomes mere opinions and the strong and mighty wins.
Secularism and humanism are failing badly because God can never be eliminated. What happens is that people just replaced God with a false god either Government, society, family, themselves, career, sports etc

sonmvayina:
Jesus is a creation of the Roman empire to deceive you....you fell for it big time..

Continue in your idolatry. See numbers 23:19

confused and brainwashed man. All records and archeology proved Jesus is a real person. Your god remains an illusion.

Ogbadabada:
A public and social affairs analyst, Pius Adebayo has said "Abel Damina is not a strange name in the ears of many Nigerians as far as the peddling of Christian heresies is concerned. He has carved for himself an unenviable niche in the world of heretic and controversial doctrines.

In a statement made available to newsmen, Adebayo stated that, "Whether such doctrines are being triggered by his sheer lack of understanding of the Scripture or inspired by some strange demonic influences remains a worrisome and intriguing subject. But more worrisome is the fate of young, immature and gullible Christians who are being swayed into the abyss of sinful and damnable compromise by his heretical and evil doctrines. For a so-called man of God to have and maintain a doctrinal stance that promotes unrestrained sin, immoral conducts, disorderliness, falsehood, duplicity and social anarchy speaks volumes of the extremely permissive and corrupt nature of his personal life".

Speaking further, he said, let us take a brief look at the history of this religious pariah.
Abel Damina finished Secondary School in 1988 from Prince College, Mista-Ali, Jos, Plateau State Nigeria.

He attempted to further his education by enrolling into the College of Advanced Studies, Zaria, but soon dropped out shortly after, claiming to have received a call to Ministry.

This was soon followed by the commencement of his Ministry in the city of Uyo, Akwa Ibom State, Nigeria, just two years after secondary school.

From the foregoing, it is clear to see that the process of his making is already compromised as he could not endure the mental and physical discipline to run a basic post-secondary educational programme.

Even his entry into ministry cost him nothing as he did not sacrifice anything valuable to answer the call – no degree certificate, no professional qualification, no occupation or career, etc.

Adebayo stressed, Today, this same drop-out has the effrontery to challenge highly revered and renowned men of God and fathers of faith who are academic giants or scholars in their own rights aside their spiritual prowess.

His unbridled and visceral tongue did not spare God’s servants like; Pastor E.A. Adeboye, a renowned mathematician with PhD in Mathematics, Pastor W.F. Kumuyi, also a mathematical scholar, Bishop David Oyedepo, a qualified architect, and Dr. Paul Enenche and his wife, Dr (Mrs) Becky Enenche, both qualified medical doctors.

These are men and women who paid the price for the call of God into ministry. Ministry, to these men, is highly valued as they left behind enviable qualifications and gainful professions to do the work of God. But that is not the same for Abel Damina.

He left nothing behind, and it is obvious, he has nothing in front of him to pursue.

And since he has nothing to gain or lose, he is desperately on the loose, seeking to denigrate those who are genuinely doing the work of God with unquestionable conducts and proven track records.

His Ministerial practices have from the very beginning, been characterized by dubious fund-raising, the proceeds of which were taken by him almost immediately for personal use, and not for the church. That is, he would immediately walk away with the raised funds after the service, he could use the extremes of means, even hypnotics, if possible, to extract money from the congregants.

Adebayo narrated how, Damina once proudly told an associate that all his messages were strategically scripted to elicit giving or fundraising – that he wouldn’t preach any message that would not provoke people to give. In fact, he once told another associate that all the tithes of the church belonged to him.

But what do we have today ? The same fund-raiser-in-chief is now peddling a new doctrine that forbids the payment of tithe and other forms of giving in church and the reason for this newly minted doctrine is not far-fetched – since the fundraising and all the tithes he has been fraudulently taking from the people didn’t make him rich, no other church should take tithes from people.

But what he failed to realize is that whereas he diverted all tithes and funds raised by him on the church’s altar to his personal coffers, these other men of God, following scriptural injunctions, never had anything to do with tithes or other forms of giving in church. The standard practice is the total separation of the church from the man of God as two separate legal entities.

That makes the resources of the church not to be the same as the resources of the pastor. What is given to the church, be it tithes, offerings, sacrifices and other forms of giving, belong to the church, and not the pastor.

This is the standard scriptural practice, but Damina devoured all hook-line-and-sinker, and expected God, being a God of principle to prosper him, all the same. Since he is bankrupt of basic discipline and financial integrity to manage church’s resources, he assumes every other pastor is doing the same.

This is his mind-set because to the corrupt, everything is corrupt. He is acting like the harlot who killed her son in the Book of First Kings and wanted the surviving son of her roommate destroyed so both of them would become equal and childless. But King Solomon, being filled with the wisdom of God discerned the evil intent of the devious harlot, preserved the living child, and handed him to the rightful mother. And God is wiser than King Solomon: in the end, the heretic will always end as the ultimate loser.

Thus, Damina stepped into ministry with zero ethical foundation, zero sense of purpose, zero discipline, and zero sacrifice, just to go after people’s resources. His ministry and personal lifestyle have always been characterized with extreme level of permissiveness, disorderliness and error, hence his leaning on the absolutist grace doctrine to accommodate his moral depravity, indiscipline, avarice and recklessness.

To the gullible, unsuspecting generation of young, immature Christians, he is a hero, but deep down his hypocritical mind, he knows that he is up to nothing good but sheer falsehood, deception and double standard, with the ultimate intention to steal, to kill and to destroy lives, homes and thriving churches.

But the foundation of God stands sure, and the Lord knows those who are His – 2 Timothy 2:19. God will always stand to defend His works, and pull down all foundations and installations of falsehood, deception and evil. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

And in Mathew 3:10 Like all heretics before him, the wind of truth will eventually blow all forms of heresies into the abyss of history, and the Church of Christ will continue to march forward in triumph, and the gates of hell can never prevail against it, Adebayo stressed.

what nonsense is this? What has educational qualifications got to do with God's call? Has God not chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the strong?

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

If the man is speaking the truth does his educational qualifications or lack of it suddenly cancles it out?

AntiChristian:
Most probably!

So Matthew and Mark lied!
John didn't see it too!
Only Luke spoke the truth!

Do you you have brain at all?
The books of the Gospel mostly focused on different aspect of Jesus life and ministry.
So if some of the gospel describes the thieves mocking him and one focused on what happened later when one of the theif asked him to be in his kingdom, where is the contradiction abdool?

AntiChristian:
Okay Grace is unmerited favor!Can you face front now?

Why do you want to run? after how many days in another thread?
Can you now see that salvation is by grace? The theif asking for an unmerited favour from Jesus christ which is to be in Jesus kingdom. Can you now see that Pauls teaching lines up with Jesus teachings, works and life.

Luke lied! Matthew and Mark said the criminals both accused Jesus.

Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 27:38-44):
- Both criminals mocked Jesus along with the crowd.
- They said, "If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross."
- The robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Gospel of Mark (Mark 15:27-32):
- The criminals who were crucified with Jesus also heaped insults on him.[/b]
- They said, "Aren't you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"
- Even those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

All those crucifixion story na lie!

you think the bible is like the lie, lie kroan written by lunatic prophet Mohammad .
There is no contradiction in the bible.

The books of the injeel (Mathew,mark, Luke and john) gave different but complimentary account of Jesus life, teachings and works.

The account of the two thieves mocking christ was most probably the initial time of their crucifixion but later one of the repented and scolded the other and begged Jesus for the unmerited favour of being in Jesus kingdom.

sonmvayina:
The universal eternal spirit..

Not a creation of the Roman empire. Definitely not a man.

But the spirit behind creation.

No evidence that your god is real all you have is your delusion, any body can claim anything what separation facts from fiction is evidence. your god is an illusion,just a figment of your imagination.

My God Jesus became a man and lived among humans leaving behind historical records of him, his place of birth is known, the family he came through is known, he did works no human could ever do, his teachings are with us and no human philosophy or logic is close to the excellency of his teachings, he defeated death and ascended to heaven.

But your god only exist in your brain nobody with working faculty will take you serious.

sonmvayina:
Eya...your God died, could not withstand 3 nails...so sad..

My God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent....he is not a Jewish man that qas nailed to a cross..My God is the eternal creator. He is one.

my God exist, he has historical record of him on earth but your god is only an imaginary god, even bat man is more real than your god.

gohf:
Jesus Christ is Lord!.... but he is not God, indeed he is king and divine but he isn't God.

The basis of true faith is to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and not that Jesus Christ is God.

Matt.16.15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Matt.16.16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt.16.17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Jesus himself said, John 14:28, "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I."

Demons did not call Jesus God, even though they are lying spirits whose accounts we shouldn't believe Luke.8.28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!"


Then what about an angel, Gabriel who had visited Daniel who then visited Mary and said to her,
Luke.1.31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS.
Luke.1.32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.


There is the Lord Jesus and the Lord God... Ps.110.1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

Some even say that the name of Jesus which is higher than every other name is higher than the name of the Father. Not even consider that a son bears his father's name.

Let me use an easier translation so we don't speak too many words, what did Paul say
1Cor.15.27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
1Cor.15.28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

This was Paul who Phil.2.9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,... Jesus did not give himself a name, it was God the Father that gave him a name.

When John writes about testing every spirit, prophecy to verify genuine prophets from false prophets he wrote
1John.4.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
1John.4.3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.


The question now is what can you call a person or a spirit that says Jesus is God, for God is spirit revealed by Jesus himself but we are to believe that Jesus came in the flesh and is currently resurrected in his body at the right hand of the Father.

The devil is an author of confusion that is why those who are confused claim to be spiritual and that things of the spirit cannot be understood even when John, Jesus, Isaiah affirmed that the spirit gives understanding. How can Jesus be at the right-hand of himself.

You who believe such are the reason why the truth of God is held in contempt as the world views you as being to gullible to believe every nonsense you hear. And the true believers see you as a child tossed to and fro by strange doctrines born out of the imaginations of men.


I who have met the real Jesus testify to you that Jesus and the Father are not the same, yes they are one because they are united as a husband and wife are one in unity but not the same in personality or person.

Jesus is the word of God, and he is divine, the very manifestation of God's word full of grace and truth but he is not God the speaker. He himself testifies of God the Father, as the one who sent him, as the one who testifies of him the son, as the one who does the works.

If Jesus is God he would reveal himself as God and not have to humble himself to God who is above and above all, revealing God the father. Jesus is divine because he is like God, having the likeness of God but the in the image of man to bear our sins.

This post is to reveal who Jesus is, the real Jesus sent by the Father, that those who listen and obey him will be saved. This is the spirit of prophecy, the testimony of Jesus. Blessed is he who understands and sees him.

This is what you get when, emphasis is placed on emotional experiences as against accurate doctrine and theology. When incompetent pastors are ordained who lack knowledge in basic Christian doctrine. Smh

Janosky:
In respect of his nature, Jesus is a god @ John 1:1.
John & Jesus agreed that the God their heavenly Father is the only true God. John 17:3.
Every other being is a god, John 10:34-36. Jesus said so.

There is only one God, there is other God.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Your Trinitarian Bibles said that statement is an exclamation.

My God !!! Oh my God !! This is not references to God Almighty.
Oga no deceive yourself . You no know Greek pass them.




1 Corinthians 11:3,"The God is the head of Christ", said Paul. The same evidence of Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Every first born in your Bible is a creature Colossians 1:15 has issues with installing Jesus Christ where his God did not place him.
That's the evidence that your Trinitarian mentors doctored that verse in Titus the same manner they doctored 1 John 5:7 & 1 Timothy 3:16.

Paul was a devout Judaism devotee before his conversion. Read his first sermon in Acts 9:20.

you keep proving that you guys are false witness.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Jehovah true witness can never say there is "a god besides Jehovah".

Jesus is Almighty God the evidence are all over scriptures.

sonmvayina:
Lol..

Who do you believe, Paul/Mathew /John or the creator of heaven and earth?

Let me know.
As for me, I believe my creator 10000%

you don't know your creator. I thought you want to prove that echad is not a compound unity.
Jesus is Almighty God.

sonmvayina:
I know you will say it is a compound 1

My friend, it is not. There is only one God, creator of all. Jesus is a creation of the Roman empire...
He was created to deceive you...don't fall for it..

Isaiah 44:6/7
6. So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no god

7. And who will call [that he is] like Me and will tell it and arrange it for Me, since My placing the ancient people, and the signs and those that will come, let them tell for themselves.

Isaiah 45:5
am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me

Echad is a compound one.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is God in respect to his nature but the Son of God in respect to his relationship and with the Father.

Thomas called Jesus God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Paul called him God.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

The scripture is clear, Jesus is the creator, and ruler over all creation, all creation was created for him and he exist before all creation making him uncreated and have absolute power over all things.

Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Michael547:
So all other religions apart from the Jws are not man made and they fail to agree on doctrinal matters?

you have difficulty in comprehension I don't mean to be offensive. Go back and read slowly tye previous posts.

Michael547:
What do you mean by human set up organization?
Are you saying those pastors and their members are not organized?

Man made organization like Jehovah witness...

Where did say pastors and their members are not organized?
It is not necessary for everyone to be in one local church.
What matters is that they are continue the teachings of the apostles of christ which are written in the bible.

Michael547:
What exactly is not necessary?

they are under one umbrella of Jesus christ but not in my human set up/organisation.

Michael547:
All these pastors that you've mentioned, are they in agreement in biblical doctrines apart from the ones you've mentioned? If yes, why are they not under one umbrella of church?

not necessary.

Michael547:
So which pastor or church has the correct interpretation of doctrines in those matters that you listed up there?

John piper, John Mac author, tunde bakare, to name a few, then there are some youtubers that are are also sound like pastor Mike winger, Allen parr etc however that does not mean they are perfect.

Michael547:
So which pastor do you know that does not teach any wrong?

There is no pastor that is perfect except Jesus Christ, but however there are some important foundational teachings of Christianity that a denial of it could potentially mean that such person may not actually be a Christian.
Doctrine such as, the doctirne about God, the deity of christ, salvation through faith in Jesus christ, The sinless life of Jesus, The finished work of christ on the cross, the resurrection of Jesus, and his return. These are very important doctrine in Christianity.

Just ensure you study the scripture yourself, then be active in sunday school, I would recommend articles such as assemblies testimony, search it on line they are free.
Spend more time on the person of Jesus christ and his finished works.

Dsimmer:
Will you keep quiet? I've even done Christianity a good service here because it's actually the Yoruba religion which expatiate more on these, thereby making people to understand all these better.

Yoruba religion is an intellectual religion as a matter of fact📌 Yoruba religion is basically centered around Olodumare (Ìyè) whose begotten child is his visible manifestation.

What Olodumare expects from humans is integrity/righteousness and also making use of their intelligent creativity to improve their society and make it better, just like his visible manifestation had done by creating the universe which is an intelligent creative world📌

like Islam these people try to copy Christianity but failed woefully like Mohammad.

The only historical person who is the Son of God is Jesus christ.

An intellectual person would seek for evidence of claim and not just believe anything because of sentiment of tribe.

Michael547:
So is kumuyi wrong?

If he said celebrating birthday is a sin then he is wrong.
What matters is to honour God with whatever we are doing.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Dsimmer:
After pointing out to you that Jacob and his descendants are not Mohammad's ancestors, Let me answer some of your questions, even as I already did sometime ago while using Yoruba religion which is similar to Christianity btw.

The son of Olodumare (Ìyè) is the visible manifestation of Olodumare who is a spirit. He's a spirit who manifest himself through his son which is the visible manifestation of himself. The son later came to the earth by becoming flesh and was born by a virgin woman📌

Why did the son say he didn't know about the hour? Because he was in the fleshy form and the spirit who's the father within him didn't tell him.

Why did the Messiah come to the earth, let me answer you once again while using Yoruba religion.

First, Yoruba also had a Messiah born of a virgin woman sent to them, just like the Isrealites had their Messiah born of a virgin woman.

Secondly, the Isrealites always used fruits and animals such as sheep and Lamb for sacrifices back then while Yoruba also used fruits and animals such as goat, sheep etc for sacrifices.

The death and resurrection of the Messiah put a stop to all that sacrifices. As a matter of fact, Yoruba's Messiah (Ela Omo Olodumare) born of a virgin woman (Oyigi) put a stop to all these sacrifices in the literal sense of it. Meanwhile, It was also inferred by Ifa that Ela = Jewesun.

And yeah, Yoruba's Messiah also resurrected after his death and ascended. In fact, apart from the resurrection of the Messiah, the resurrection was also depicted by how king Obatala took back his throne. If you look deeper into it while using your brain, you should understand all that. However, let me expatiate it to you. What does Obatala means? Obatala means "the king of light" while Oduduwa which means "the vessel of black creation" represent "matter" or "Earth". Note that both Obatala and Oduduwa are the two equal halves of a sphere representing one entity which formed the universe📌 Living things are made from the Earthly soil which is bound to return to earth however resurrection is represented by Obatala.

Now, what's Yoruba's first day of the week? It's Ojo Aiku which means the day of resurrection. Did you know that Ojo Aiku which is the day of resurrection is known as Obatala's day? Because Obatala, the king of light and righteousness represent resurrection just as I previously stated. Ojo Aiku which is Obatala's day is also the day of the beginning of creation which was the first day of the manifestation of light, just as the name Obatala depicts it. It's also the day of resurrection. In fact, Yoruba's knowledge of days of the week is based on high intelligence.

As a matter of fact, Yoruba culture as a whole is highly intellectual.

That said, I have answered your questions why using Yoruba religion.

This is a failed attempt at copying Christianity/ modifying ifa religion which is nothing but paganism.
In case you don't know paganism worship their gods/goddesses as an expression of nature or qualities such as love/lust, justice, etc

No, celebrating birthday or naming ceremony is not a sin.

AntiChristian:
In perhaps what is one of the most perplexing passages of the New Testament, we find a story during the alleged crucifixion of Jesus the Christ that challenges the very core of commonly held Christian beliefs about Christ and salvation.

We read from Luke 23:39-43 (NIV) the following:


The Wahala

If we were to ask a confessional Christian today (one that knows of and adheres to the doctrinal confessions of the faith) what one needed to believe in for salvation, we would perhaps have a very long list. It would likely include belief that Jesus died for the sins of all, that Jesus was God, that Jesus was both man and God (belief in the hypostatic union), belief that the New Testament is the word of God, belief in the Godhead, in the Personhood of each member of the Godhead who were all co-equal and co-substantial to each other.

You don't you don't even see your ignorance in all your post. The last time, I asked you to define grace you ran away.
You are like a man who doesn't know what a car is, but he argues with a driver because the driver said he can drive a car, does that makes sense?

1. The man certainly believe that Jesus was more than a mere man, that Jesus is a kingdom howbeit not an earthly king for him to ask Jesus to remember him even at the brink of death.

Yet the 5 verses from the Gospel eventually attributed to Luke present a severe theological problem that strikes at the very core of Christian theology. The question before us is, what did the thief say, believe and do to be granted salvation? When we examine the verses we can identify only two things:

1. That Jesus was an innocent man.

2. That Jesus was a King (or would become one at some point).

The thief believed that Jesus has power to forgive sin hence, believed Jesus was God.

Luke 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

All the thief had to do to be granted salvation was to accept that Jesus was innocent and thus did not deserve to be crucified, and that Jesus would survive in some form such that he would become a king or have a kingdom. By this standard, all Muslims will be granted entry into the kingdom of God. The thief did not have to believe in the New Testament, did not have to accept the Old Testament, did not have to express belief in the Trinity, did not have to believe in the Godhead, did not have to believe in the two natures of Christ, did not have to even accept Jesus as the Messiah! He did not have to believe Jesus was the incarnate word of God, he did not have to believe that Jesus was the 2nd person in the Godhead…in other words, the thief did not have to believe in anything that Christians today hold to be true.

The theif recognized and called Jesus Lord, Is that not confessing Jesus, can you Muslims call Jesus Lord?

There is perhaps an even greater issue here. The thief claims that Jesus was innocent and thus did not deserve to be punished. See, Christians necessarily believe that while Jesus was innocent, he deserved to suffer and be punished, because he came to suffer for our sins as an act of grace:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” – John 3:16 (NIV).

“And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.” – Luke 9:22 (NIV).

According to the above passages, Christ must suffer and must be killed. However, the thief on the cross, seemingly disagrees with these teachings. The thief explicitly says that not only is Jesus innocent, but that he did not deserve to die. In other words, the thief is expressing an Islamic position that Muslims would agree with. Jesus did not deserve to die, he did not deserve to suffer and he was an innocent man. In other words, Jesus rewards a thief and claims the thief would be in the Kingdom of God with him because he denied the core tenets of Christianity while affirming core beliefs of Islam.

The thief in no uncertain words explains that his crucifixion on the cross is justified, but Jesus’s isn’t, however, confessional Christians would argue that in order for sin to be paid, it had to be justified through the death of Jesus the Christ. This presents a problem for Christianity. Jesus rewards a man and accepts him into the Kingdom of God for expressively, clearly and absolutely, rejecting core Christian beliefs about salvation!

Comments by Scholars
These 5 verses deliver a devastating blow to the consistency of the doctrine of salvation in Christianity. These verses essentially approve of Islamic beliefs and indicate that Muslims according to Jesus…would be in the Kingdom of God, since we believe that he was innocent and that the alleged crucifixion was not justified in any way. These are things a Christian today cannot deny, these are things a Christian today has to believe in, yet a thief with Islamic beliefs only accepted two tenets, both of which agree with core Islamic beliefs, and was rewarded and praised by Jesus! The scholars have had difficulty in understanding these passages. It must first be noted that only one Gospel records this incident and this is the Gospel of Luke:



The other three Gospels are noticeably silent on the thieves, except for the case of demonizing them:

“In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.” – Matthew 27:44 (NIV).

“Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.” – Mark 15:32 (NIV).

The final Gospel, later attributed to John (which John, we don’t know), does not mention any of the words of the thieves, it does not even identify them as thieves or rebels. Instead, this is all the Gospel as to say:

“The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.” – John 19:32 (NIV).

Resolving the Wahala
Some Christian commentators (exegetes) have attempted to navigate around this narrative disaster by implying that the thief/ rebel had other beliefs, that he believed Jesus was a God or that Jesus was meant to die for his sins and thus was saved because of this. The problem with such an argument is that the only Gospel to mention this incident does not indicate any of these things. The Gospel does not indicate that the thief/ rebel believed in anything other than what was recorded. In other words, this is a poor attempt at reading between the lines and should therefore be rejected. If scripture is sufficient for understanding salvation, then the plain reading of these 5 passages should be accepted without having a need to insert anything into scripture, to force it to say something it does not.

Conclusion
These five passages are a disaster for any Christian who takes their faith seriously. Every core tenet that one needs to believe in to be considered a confessional Christian is necessarily discarded by the thief and approved of by Jesus himself. In fact, the very beliefs that Jesus was an innocent man and did not deserve to die, that his death is unjustifiable is an Islamic belief. Thus, there are two arguments to be claimed here:

1. According to Jesus, all one has to do to be granted entry into the Kingdom of God is to accept that Jesus is innocent and that his death was unjustified (which affirms Islam’s beliefs about Jesus). Therefore the beliefs of most Christians have been deemed unnecessary and useless by Jesus himself.

2. That belief in Jesus dying for the sins of the world is unjustified and that Jesus affirms this, thereby establishing that him dying does not acquit us of our sins (essentially refuting core Christian beliefs about the purpose behind Jesus’s death in the first place).

May God guide our Christian brothers and sisters to the truth of Jesus the Christ, which is to the Oneness of God.

and Allah knows best.

The theif believed Jesus has power over death and hell hence has the power to redeem him from the grave which power only God possess.

According to the jews sacrifice must be made to atone for he sins of people, yet the theif believe Jesus can atone for him hence believing in Jesus sacrifices.

In summary,
The thief believed Jesus as his Lord the one who has the can save him (saviour) hence receiving Jesus as his Messiah.
Muslims and indeed anyone can be saved if they like the theif on the cross received Jesus as their Lord like the thief did and believe in Jesus ability to save them irrespective of their sin like the thief did, if they believe Jesus is the true king whose kingdom is beyond this life.

Anyone one who believe this already believe Jesus is God and in his sacrifice, this is what is important for salvation.

The theif attributed the power and nature of Almighty God to Jesus christ by asking Jesus to remember him in his kingdom even though he himself was dying.

Do you Muslims believe the following about Jesus?
1. That he can Forgive sins?
2. That Jesus is a king whose kingdom is beyond this life?
3.That Jesus is your Lord and can save you irrespective of your works of righteousness?
4. He trusted that Jesus is true hence all of Jesus words are true and trustworthy.

If you do this then you become a Christian.

As for believe in the Trinity, you don't need to believe in the Trinity to be saved but after salvation you will understand other things such as the trinity, things about Jesus, his father, the holy spirit and his kingdom.
No, we Christians do not believe in three Gods, we believe in one God who is triune in person.
Jesus, the father and the Holy Spirit is the same God.

Ilamina:
But I heard its going too be a zombie experience

How are we going too survive in heaven, no child birth,

What happens when we get old

who told you such nonsense? Who told you that you are going to heaven? No one is going to be in heaven who are not born again.

Heaven is not a place for sin corrupted human beings.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

the only reason some humans are going to be in heaven is because they are in Jesus Christ outside of that no one.

As for how life is in heaven? There is no living for survival, but living endlessly in perfect peace, joy, freedom from sin and unity with God.

Ilamina:

what happens when you commit suicide? your Judgment begins after death

MaxInDHouse:
Guy Jesus is the Archangel Michael to me if you can't quote where the Bible explicitly says:

"Jesus is God"

Then it's stupid arguing over whatever others say about Jesus.

you have started coming direct. No Jesus is Almighty God!

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted shows that you're just a novice but anxious to a fault.

If you must know the Jews only believe books from Genesis to Malachi as for Matthew to Revelations they don't believe anything written so instead of arguing blindly based on what you can't prove using the Old Testament why not keep shut?

There is NO Bible verse from Genesis to Revelations that says:
"Jesus IS God"

So keep quiet and learn!

Jesus is God, John 1 vv1, in Revelation Jesus referred to himself as the begining and the end which is a title for God Almighty alone.
Jesus is said he is the life (eternal life).
So Jesus is more than a messenger, he is God Almighty.

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem is lack of understanding!

If i ask you to tell this forum the name of your own church now you will start saying you're a Christian yet there are thousands of different religions claiming the same with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines so why not just stay on what i typed and leave the churches with contradictions for now?

Did the Bible say Jesus is a messenger of God?
YES!

The bible said he is more than a messenger, He is the God.

MaxInDHouse:
You see your problem?

So there has never been a time i typed what you claimed OK can you quote any JW on this forum who typed:
"Jesus is just a messenger"
on this forum?
Your lack of knowledge is affecting you badly and you don't know it if someone say Jesus was an angel in heaven does that translates to saying Jesus is juat a messenger?

Well for your information you're just like a Jew who once argued that Jesus can never be a servant or son of his God, WHY?
Because Jesus said
"God is JUST a spirit" {John 4:24} and since there are many spirits then Jesus knows nothing about his God.
How do you answer to that?

Don't you Jehovah witnesses teach that Jesus is just a messenger (angel)?

Watch how this Chinese government begins to crumble. The Roman empire tried it where is She today?

MaxInDHouse:
Can you quote the highlighted in any of my thousands of posts on Nairaland?

I am speaking about what you jehovah witnesses generally believe and teach.
Dont You believe Jesus is just an angel (messenger)?