₦airaland Forum

Kingsempires:
In Christianity, they believe in the Trinity to be God divinity this is the proof from the bible that makes the belief of the Trinity


Isaiah 9;6,col 2:9,1 cor 8;16,2cor13:14, 2cor13;14,joh 10;30,luke1;35,mat 28;19,mat3;16-17,john14;16-17 e.t.c


These chapters and verses I quoted proofs the Trinity of God is Biblical.


But there is also places in the Bible that proof that Yahweh/Jehovah is the one and only God places like;


Isaiah 45;5-12,mark 10:17-18,john; 5:30,john 5;44 Exodus 20;3,deu 4;35, mark 12;29-34, Romans 3;30,1chron 17;20, Psalm 86;10 e.t.c


So this is were it confuses.Is it that the Bible is saying two different things.This is what the Muslims, atheist or some other religions will Said that the Bible is full of contradiction. So my fellow Christian can anyone fully explained the holy Trinity for does who those not really understand about Trinity and why is there difference explanation between this chapters I wrote above.


Please am not against anybody, anybody who have knowledge about this chapters should please explain the way others can understand it

It is not a contradiction. God is one in essence but three in person.
Allah in the Koran wants to be more than one person badly that he keeps using "we" everywhere. Again Muslims do not know the meaning of tawheed they say tawheed mean Allah is only one but tawheed actually means a unification of many things.
In the old testament God use the word "us" to describe himself.
The nation of Israel is called an "He" even though they are made up of many persons.
The word used to describe God's oneness in deuteronomy 6:4 is echad, and echad as used in th bible is a plural unity as against yachad which is singular unity.
When God said Adam and eve would become one flesh the word one is actually the echad which is the plural form of unity.
When the Yahweh went to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it, it was reported that Yahweh called down fire from yahweh out of heaven, meaning yahweh on earth called down fire from yahweh in heaven.
There is a particular entity called "The Angel of the Lord" in the old testament, he his God, he speaks as yahweh and at the say time he is distinguished from yahweh.
In Isaiah 48:16, the person taking is God speaking but he distinguished himself from the Lord God and the Spirit.
Note the Spirit is placed on the same personhood with the Lord God but yet the spirit is distinct from the Lord God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

From this verses it is clear that they are three persons
1. Is the God that is speaking
2. The Lord God that is sending God
3. The spirit of God who is also sending God along with the Lord God.
All three are the same God but different persons.
The Trinity is in the old testament right from Genesis 1.

LordReed:
LoLz. You lack the ability to counter Dan Barker's points.

Delusional, blind man.

LordReed:
Nope you're the stupid one who can't see what is sitting on his nose.

What did it begin from?

delulu, No it begins from you.

LordReed:
Weak and easily countered but you countered none of them.

you lack comprehension.

LordReed:
No it's you who can't see your own stupidity. And you even repeat it.

How is it the evidence of your god and not evidence for the universe self existing?

No its your stupidity, How can the universe self exist, is it not an irony?
Evidence proves the universe has a beginning.

jaephoenix:
If you cannot reason logically, then u can't reason properly. You shouldn't have posted the video in the first, if you don't understand what logical fallacies are

lol logic? You have no business mentioning logic. What do you know about fallacies?

LordReed:
It is for his personal god, he says so himself.



LoLz. The stupidity must be coming from you since at no point did I claim something can come from nothing. On the other hand you claim that nothing can come nothing but there is a special something that can self exist. What stupid people like you can't see is you cannot have it both ways it's either something can self exist or nothing can come from nothing.



LoLz. Oya produce the evidence for your god let's see.

You can't see your stupidity? How can nothing create something?
Who said God came into existence?
The evidence of God is the creation itself and the existence of morality.
Just as the evidence of gravity is that things thrown upward come back down.

Secular humanism has failed the west.
The woke liberal ideology is destroying the west.

UK riots: Why is Britain burning? Bagchi explains the options confronting PM Starmer & their impact
More violence has broken out in several cities across the UK in the wake of a stabbing rampage at a dance class that left three girls dead. The Economic Times spoke with Indrani Bagchi, the CEO of Ananta Centre, a think tank based in Delhi. Riots are posing a dilemma for Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Should Starmer prioritise political manoeuvring or focus on maintaining stability, Indrani Bagchi explains the UK turmoil.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/uk-riots-why-is-britain-burning-bagchi-explains-the-options-confronting-pm-starmer-their-impact/videoshow/112296049.cms

It is evident that nairaland atheists cannot intellectually counter the points raised but instead are hiding in shadows to throw shade. Bunch of cowards.

LordReed:
LoLz. How can it not be a specific god when Lennox claims he personal has a relationship with the god?

How does this counter his argument, the debate is not against or for a personal God but for the existence of God it is not a debate for which God is right or not.

What is nonsensical is claiming NOTHING can come from nothing then creating a special class of something that can self exist. That is pure nonsense.

This is stupidity at its finest, when has nothing ever produce nothing, can you give evidence that nothing can bring forth something?

Lennox is a typical believer full of faith in something he cannot sufficiently evidence but is so sure exists, yet when challenged claims you need special experience to come to that conclusion. Nothing special about his argument.

Either you don't know what evidence is or you deliberately ignore it.

jaephoenix:
Nice argument. Watched all through.
1.Only problem is he committed a whole truckload of fallacies while putting his point across.
A. Fallacy of Appeal to ignorance. The fallacy of appeal to ignorance, also known as the argument from ignorance or burden of proof fallacy, occurs when someone claims a statement is true or false because there is a lack of evidence or information to prove it otherwise. Example god exists because there is no evidence he doesn't exist. The mathematician John Lennox never dropped one shred of evidence about the existence of a god, but shifted the burden of evidence to atheists.
B. Fallacy of Appeal to Authority. The appeal to authority fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone accepts a claim as true because it was made by an authority figure, such as a celebrity, scientist, or expert, regardless of the figure's actual knowledge of the subject. In this case, he was quoting Einstein etc. Even though those authorities aren't even christians and didn't specifically say there is a god, it didn't stop him from using their words to promote his sham. Yet he still didn't provide any evidence
C. Fallacy of Appeal to Popularity. The appeal to popularity fallacy, also known as the ad populum fallacy or bandwagon fallacy, is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone claims something is true because many people believe it. This fallacy is problematic because popularity does not necessarily indicate something is true. A claim might be widely accepted because of cultural beliefs, social conformity, or misinformation. Not an evidence of god

2. Throughout his ramble, he was appealing to an unknown entity, which he attributed to a god, and not just any god, but his own personal god. His favorite candy flavor. He blissfully ignored the fact that there are thousands of other gods, who perfectly fits that narrative of an 'omniscient creator' but somehow only his fits the bill, even though he couldn't prove it/he/she/they/etc exists and the others don't.

3. Even if one decides to believe this his favorite god(for the sake of this argument), his only book which contains his instructions to us, is severely flawed in that it is scientifically, historically and logically challenged. It is also strewn with all sorts of errors and contradictions which if one pauses for a moment to reflect, doesn't point an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being.
So no, with his views, no intelligent and rational person would believe he destroyed atheism. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He in fact, proves blatantly, the ignorance perpetuated by religion.

This is purely an emotional response nothing logical.
The Mathematics professor never even appealed to the bible.
Prof did a good job

LordReed:
Listen to this from the same debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btJazTimH4M

Dan Barker"s argument are very weak and were easily debunked.
Firstly, the argument for the existence of God is not the argument for a specific God.
Secondly, the argument that God must be created if we are to go with "nothing can exist without a creator" is nonsensical because things that come into existence God did not come into existence he has always existed for all of eternity.

The Mathematics professed really did a good job.

bloodofthelamb:
.

I am okay.... Still glowing in his unmerited grace. How about you

Nice to hear from you, I doing great too we gives thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY8uDhaLJnk?si=YFFfj4CESPhI7Pfp

Will God send me ro hell because I dont believe in Jesus Christ?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes because Jesus is the only one that can save you from sin and its consequence

We are all headed to hell naturally due to our sin but Jesus came along to save us from that path if we accept his help then he will save us but if we reject his help then he will allow us end up in hell.

You are condemned by your sin but rejecting Jesus means you remain condemned.

Repentance from what and to what?

If it is not repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, you are wasting time.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not surprised at all,when the bible is swept as side and instead so called apostles, prophets GO's, personal visions and revelation now become the new authority, this is the product.
There have being attack on the authority of the bible as the word of God especially amongst professed christians, a push for egalitarian interpretation of the Bible, all ideologies of fallen men.

Michael547:
Oga so where does the Bible say that a conscious spirit survives the death of a man and continues living elsewhere with the thought of the man?
How do you explain Psalms 146:4?

It is the body that returns to the ground.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

MaxInDHouse:
For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God.

The context completely differs!

what is the context? Can an impersonal force have knowledge?

Michael547:
Show me a verse that talks of spirit as the invisible conscious part of man that survives death?

Below is Psalms 146:4....which other spirit does that verse say is conscious and that survives the death of a man?

The context of Ecclesiastes is from the context of "life under the Sun".

When man dies he has no portion on things done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

For example he said man has no prominence over beast but the context he is speaking is death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

According to ecc 9:5 the dead have no more reward, does that mean Abraham, Noah, Abel etc have no reward? No, this is only refering to participating in things on earth because that is the context of the preacher in the first place.

Michael547:
Show me a verse that talks of spirit as the invisible conscious part of man that survives death?

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
The spirit capable of knowledge and resides in man

Michael547:
Where did King Solomon say that the spirit continues consciousness?

Do Animals spirit also continue consciousness after death since they have the same spirit as man according to Solomon in Ecclesiastics 3:19 as shown in the screenshot below?

The word "spirit" cab be used in different context it can be just the breath of life which both man and animals possesses, it can be the invisible part of man capable of knowledge and emotions or it can be used to describe angels and God.

MaxInDHouse:
The word "SPIRIT" in this context means "FORCE OF LIFE life" it doesn't mean the creature continues existing somewhere else otherwise Jesus who committed his spirit unto God couldn't have been said later "raised from the dead" Act 3:15

So when Jesus died he was COMPLETELY DEAD like all other creatures {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} but the [b]"force of life" or "spirit"[b] sustaining the breath returns to God who gave it to all creatures! Ecclesiastes 12:7 compare to Genesis 2:7

That's what it means at death all creatures seize to exist!

you said nothing survives death yet the breath of life survives death can't you see you are wrong? By the way the word spirit can be interpreted as breath of life or the part of a man capable of understanding and expressing emotion depending on the context.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

MaxInDHouse:
God said Adam will die if he disobey Satan said God lied so choose whom you will support as for me i support God.

Nothing survives death according to God's word whatever is dead can't feel anything not even know a single thing after death!

So where does the Bible teach that death means cessation?
Where did God's word say nothing survives death?
The knowledge and wisdom they do not possess is the one that enable them to do work as Ecclesiastes stated.

In fact Ecclesiastes said the spirit returns to God who gave it,

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

According to his verse the spirit does not cease to exist but rather returns to God.

Jesus committed his Spirit to God.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Stephen prayed the Lord Jesus to recieve his spirit.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

The rich man found himself in hell (God cast him there)

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

After death judgment.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

All these have shown that the Spirit actually survives physical death however the spiritual death is different.

MaxInDHouse:
Nothing is alive in hell says God's word! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

So what you're quoting is an ILLUSTRATION!

Read according to context, the knowledge and wisdom that Ecclesiastes is talking about is what will enable them do work. It does not say dead people cease to exist.

Ken4Christ:
What of Job that wrote and God condemned most of the things he said?

At the end Job said he spoke foolishly but where in Ecclesiastes was it written or any where else that Ecclesiastes that certain part was not correct? Every book of the scripture provides their context or their context could be gotten somewhere else.
The book of Job is inspired like the other scriptures.

Kingsempires:
I guess you are right

He is not right. All scripture is given by inspiration not some but All.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Solomon wrote what he wrote by the holy Spirit, It is because some people do not understand the Bible that is why they deny reject some part and accept some part.

Ken4Christ:
No, they are not. The writer of Ecclesiastes wasn't a prophet. He spoke some truths but he also said things that weren't true. For the scripture to be inspired by God, it has to be through his chosen vessels. Otherwise, Satan too was inspired by God because his words were written in the Bible.

your opinion doesn't matter what matters is the bible.
All scriptures are inspired of God.
See yourself, Did Satan write any part of the bible?
Who told you the writer of Ecclesiastes was not a chosen vessel?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Ken4Christ:
You reject the revelation of Jesus and uphold the word of a man spoken in ignorance. Who told you that everything you read in Ecclesiastes is divine revelation from God?

everything you read in Ecclesiastes is divine revelation from God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

StillDtruth:
Wow! You too thought so?

I want to understand when you said
"I believe they are not exactly the same, John's "beginning" is actualy the "indefinite" time before definite time."

What did you have in mind for our definite time started in Genesis 1?

I believe John was extending the begining beyond Genesis 1:1.