₦airaland Forum

[Quote]You say forgiveness is availble for the person who is alive and then you say that it is possible for those he left behind to doo good deeds on his behalf. I thought Suicide bombers got to choose 70 members of their family to go to heaven! I don't understand how their family members have to do good deeds to cover the murders committed by them.[/QUote]Show me where in Quran commission of suicide is permissible? Show me where suicide bombing is permissible? Your thought are very laughable. You need to face reality, sometimes; read so that you are better informed.



[Quote]How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover the murder of one person?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover the despoil of one person?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover the oppression of one person?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover homosexual acts of one's demised brother?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover lesbian acts of one's demised sister?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover lies?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover incest?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover robbery?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover adultery?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover pedophilia?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover blasphemy against Allah?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover blasphemy against Mohammed?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover theft?
How many good deeds are required in the Quran/Hadith to cover idolatry?[/Quote]The biggest and the only deed is repentance, as in seeking forgiveness. Doing good deeds so that a dead person can benefit means the person is a believer who dies following the Quran and Sunnah in the first place. There is no Islam or sunnah in the heart of a person who killed himself. Suicide bombing falls under this category, as well.



[b]I need you to answer the questions above, please![quote][/QUote]Your questions have been answered. The biggest deed is simply repentance. Does Christianity have that, independently, on your own, without you wrapping yourself in an Israeli blood?

[Quote]The Holy Spirit taught the Apostles; they passed those teachings on in the new testaments. Paul is not the comforter as he is not the Holy spirit and niether is Mohammed. Being a spirit being, the holy spirit cannot be seen with natural eyes but his presence can be felt. Have you seen any spirits recently? I haven't, Sir![/Quote]The bold, if it is the truth is the first time that you have spoken the truth. Except that the bold is completely false, because how do you erase the "The comforter, which is the spirit of Truth from God shall speak, only what he hears from God", which he is commanded to pass on to his listeners? How do you insult the disciples, which from them Jesus called the "Rock" to have forgotten what Jesus said, that they fell into error, and needed The Corrector from God so soon, less than 3 months after they have been wit their master for three years, your god Jesus? Maybe they are people of little faith, as Jesus said, so how do you trust what they write down? Maybe Jesus was such a bad teacher, that these were the dotard that forgot so quickly and he didnt teach them anything and the Holy spirit had to start from ground up, again? In short, put forward an acceptable argument that Jesus said "he will speak only what he hears" to justify a talking to your mind spirit, instead of taking to your ear an like Jesus, Moses, David, Solomon, John, Zacharias, Abraham, Noah, etc did? You have a problem; so solve thing major issue. I know you shock and jive me with another dancing routine.




[Quote]People who are tuned to the spirit hear the things of the spirit while spritually deaf/dead people do not. The Holy Spirit corrects us in our personal lives when we do wrong things. We do not have to publicise those personal things unless we are trying teach/guide/correct others. For example, Paul wrote of a 'thorn in his flesh'. He knew there was a thorn because the Holy Spirit pointed it out. To err is human! I also gave you an example when you asked a similar question earlier on about the correction of my view by the Holy Spirit on 'adult toys'.[/Quote]About the bold; if you cant hear me, though i'm shouting, can you at east hear your husband in the other room, whose spirit you must be in tune with? You make me laugh. I have to handle your case with kid's gloves and abuse Aletheia, and Olaadegbu instead.

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From this I am taking it that there is more that is missing, so the comforter who would hear the words from God and shall repeat it and not adding anything to what he hears which is what he repeats, will correct and remind, adding new information and then glorifying Jesus. Glorification does not entail such a person is worship, but put in proper and correct honoring platform. Now how can the holy spirit who you said he is God and knows the mind of God, is now put in the position of listening which is the act of hearing to what God has to say first and then merely repeating it to the disciples? Are the disciples so daft that they have to be corrected so quickly? Were they on the wrong path that they have to be lead to all truth and corrected? These are big problems in the supposition that the Jesus you said knew everything chose dummies for companions, needing corrections, and greater guidance than what he left them with so quickly, since you said it was delivered on the day of pentecost.

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I wonder why the Corinthians from Paul is appropriate in Seyi's summation here? Jesus heard and repeated, the same thing a prophet will do; Moses heard from God to go to Pharaoh with exact words, commands, protocols, as he delivered it to Pharaoh. So based on this alone, Moses was a Comforter in his time. Moses was also a prophet whose birth and life are miraculous. There is no place that I have said that a holy spirit that delivers messages and orders and commandments of God, as they heard it, reads it from a book, since they hear it first and the mouth piece for it among their expected audiences, their people. If a man has just read the Bible, unless he has stones for brain, why does he need a spirit be reminding him so soon? Why does a need to correct the disciples do soon? Why does a spirit need to glorify Jesus whom the disciples as you have claimed called him God and son of God, worshiping him? Is there a higher plateau that he can reach, than being God and son of God, all roll up in 1 person? Please seyi, if you cant answer it, dont put up all these stories, thinking that we will fall for any of the many.

Quit pretending to be silly because you are not! My explanation was clear enough![/QQuote]You have explained zero. And my explanation of your failure is below. read as I expose you and the Bible for the fraud you are peddling. Allah is my Support.




[QUote]God's spirit knows the heart of God,[/QUote]Yet above the Spirit was fearful of the God. Read it for yourself. That is pure ignorance.




[Quote]and interacts with his children, explaining, reminding, correcting, counselling, comforting, supporting, guiding etc.[/Quote]There is no place in the qualitative description of The Another Comforter that Jesus said it will interact beyond the Disciples. Not even reaching the apostles, which Paul is from the group. No where. If you can show me, I will accept defeat. I know that you are stubborn, and by extension ignorance to Truth because you are selling a rotten idea, calling yourself child of God, when your Baba is a pure Nigerian. You are saying that you are part of those who holy spirit will work on when Jesus said its on the disciples, alone, lying on Jesus. This is shameful. Now what correction did the holy spirit make on the disciples? They must have been completely wrong, if no sooner that Jesus was lifted than they received the holy spirit, to corret them? Seyi,shee o ri iro ti o nta? Emi o ni raa o. O le taa fun Aletheia, ti o le ra ira kura.




[QUote]Man is not perfect and does not see the bigger picture like God, hence the need for constant interaction with God. Man errs; God corrects and forgives! Jesus is glorfied; we praise him, we honor him, and we ask from God in his name![/QUote]Pay attention to the weight of the bold. Your imperfection has made you ignore Allah's Messenger (AS), who came to Correct you away from Trinity to Oneness of God. Who came to explain the truth to you by Similitudes in the Quran fro his Creator and his authentic Hadith and Sunnah. Who came in to remind you of al the Prophets, and the laws that are useful for your spiritual life, etc. Who came to counsel you to do right and forbid evil and rest all your hopes on Allah. Who came to comfort you that their is relief after hardship if you focus on Allah. Who came to support you and say that you can succeed if you try, and work hard till the end of your life. Who came in to guide you on the straight path. WHo came in with all the qualities of eadership, emancipating man from the abyss of ignorance, and elevating women to the height that western women are still today struggling to achieve with the grass ceiling on their head. You are mrs. brown who rushes to go make her husband's food. I have a partner. she is not mrs sweetnecta, but duaghter of her father and partner of Sweetnecta. Think about that for a moment. Both of you are nigerians. She keeps her father's name while your father's name is forbidden you because you are now married.




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reproof; to correct. Clarification; make clear. Guidance; steering to a specific destination, direction, etc. All acts of Comforters. We see man writing them. Maybe man, Paul is best suited in the argument, instead of Holy Spirit as "Another Comforter"?

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The accurate behavior of a comforter, just like Moses was and so was Muhammad (All being comforters (AS)), messegers, having no authority of their own, except what they were given.

It is impossible for Paul to be everywhere at one time, so he is not the 'another comforter'. Paul died many years ago; The Holy Spirit is alive; Please go back to my previous posts that explain why the Holy Spirit is the 'another comforter' that Jesus referred to! No man is the 'Spirit of Truth'; The Holy Spirit is! Not Paul, Not Mohammed![/Quote]And it was difficult for Jesus to be everywhere at one time, too. Who was the former comforter before the another comforter? Was it a former Holy Spirit, too?[/quote]

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From this I am taking it that there is more that is missing, so the comforter who would hear the words from God and shall repeat it and not adding anything to what he hears which is what he repeats, will correct and remind, adding new information and then glorifying Jesus. Glorification does not entail such a person is worship, but put in proper and correct honoring platform. Now how can the holy spirit who you said he is God and knows the mind of God, is now put in the position of listening which is the act of hearing to what God has to say first and then merely repeating it to the disciples? Are the disciples so daft that they have to be corrected so quickly? Were they on the wrong path that they have to be lead to all truth and corrected? These are big problems in the supposition that the Jesus you said knew everything chose dummies for companions, needing corrections, and greater guidance than what he left them with so quickly, since you said it was delivered on the day of penticost.

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Iwonder why the Corinthians from Paul is appropriate in Seyi's summation here? Jesus heard and repeated, the same thing a prophet will do; Moses heard from God to go to Pharaoh with exact words, commands, protocols, as he delivered it to Pharaoh. So based on this alone, Moses was a Comforter in his time. Moses was also a prophet whose birth and life are miraculous. There is no place that I have said that a holy spirit that delivers messages and orders and commandments of God, as they heard it, reads it from a book, since they hear it first and the mouth piece for it among their expected audiences, their people. If a man has just read the Bible, unless he has stones for brain, why does he need a spirit be reminding him so soon? Why does a need to correct the disciples do soon? Why does a spirit need to glorify Jesus whom the disciples as you have claimed called him God and son of God, worshiping him? Is there a higher plateau that he can reach, than being God and son of God, all roll up in 1 person? Please seyi, if you cant answer it, dont put up all these stories, thinking that we will fall for any of the many.

Quit pretending to be silly because you are not! My explanation was clear enough![/QQuote]You have explained zero. And my explanation of your failure is below. read as I expose you and the Bible for the fraud you are peddling. Allah is my Support.



[QUote]God's spirit knows the heart of God,[/QUote]Yet above the Spirit was fearful of the God. Read it for yourself. That is pure ignorance.



[Quote]and interacts with his children, explaining, reminding, correcting, counselling, comforting, supporting, guiding etc.[/Quote]There is no place in the qualitative description of The Another Comforter that Jesus said it will interact beyond the Disciples. Not vene reaching the apostles, which Paul is from the group. No where. If you can show me, I will accept defeat. I know that you are stubborn, and by extension ignorance to Truth because you are selling a rotten idea, caling yourself child of God, when your Baba is a pure Nigerian. You are saying that you are part of those who holy spirit will work on when Jesus said its on the disciples, alone, lying on Jesus. This is shameful. Now what correction did the holy spirit make on the disciples? They must have been completely wrong, if no sooner that Jesus was lifted than they received the holy spirit, to corret them? Seyi,shee o ri iro ti o nta?Emi o ni raa o. O le taa fun Aletheia, ti o le ra ira kura.



[QUote]Man is not perfect and does not see the bigger picture like God, hence the need for constant interaction with God. Man errs; God corrects and forgives! Jesus is glorfied; we praise him, we honor him, and we ask from God in his name![/QUote]Pay attention to the weight of the bold. Your imperfection has made you ignore Allah's Messenger (AS), who came to Correct you away from Trinity to Oneness of God. Who came to explain the truth to you by Similitudes in the Quran fro his Creator and his authentic Hadith and Sunnah. Who came in to remind you of al the Prophets, and the laws that are useful for your spiritual life, etc. Who came to counsel you to do right and forbid evil and rest all your hopes on Allah. Who came to comfort you that their is relief after hardship if you focus on Allah. Who came to support you and say that you can succeed if you try, and work hard till the end of your life. Who came in to guide you on the straight path. WHo came in with all the qualities of eadership, emancipating man from the abyss of ignorance, and elevating women to the height that western women are still today struggling to achieve with the grass ceiling on their head. You are mrs. brown who rushes to go make her husband's food. I have a partner. she is not mrs sweetnecta, but duaghter of her father and partner of Sweetnecta. Think about that for a moment. Both of you are nigerians. She keeps her father's name while your father's name is forbidden you because you are now married.



[QUote]Quote
reproof; to correct. Clarification; make clear. Guidance; steering to a specific destination, direction, etc. All acts of Comforters. We see man writing them. Maybe man, Paul is best suited in the argument, instead of Holy Spirit as "Another Comforter"?

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The accurate behavior of a comforter, just like Moses was and so was Muhammad (All being comforters (AS)), messegers, having no authority of their own, except what they were given.

It is impossible for Paul to be everywhere at one time, so he is not the 'another comforter'. Paul died many years ago; The Holy Spirit is alive; Please go back to my previous posts that explain why the Holy Spirit is the 'another comforter' that Jesus referred to! No man is the 'Spirit of Truth'; The Holy Spirit is! Not Paul, Not Mohammed![/Quote]And it was difficult for Jesus to be everywhere at one time, too. Who was the former comforter before the another comforter? Was it a former Holy Spirit, too?[/quote]

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Based on your argument that the holy spirit, son and father are one, so I will want you to lead me with direct answer to the followings as the holy spirit appears in his three forms, with their proper names;
Holy spirit as God the Father is called Yahweh and other names. Correct so far.
Holy spirit as God the son is called Jesus, Messiah. He was supposed to be called Immanuel, but not even his mother ever called him that. Correct
Holy spirit as God the Spirit is called (. . . . . . . .). Give a name just like the above, otherwise it is not correct, this time around like the 2 above.

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Angels, Gabriel, Michael, etc all specific names. Whats the name of the Ghost? I will leave Jesus alone for now who you do pray to in addition to your praying to another God in his name, too. I have heard many christians do it, including thanking him. Ebenezer Obey asked not to forget him on the day of resurrection.

Not again . . . . ! I have stated on no fewer than 3 occassions that you should use the same logic you used in arriving at the name of your spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, he bears the same name as God! Any 'further' questions on this topic?[/Quote]WHile you have failed to meet a minimal expectation, regarding the name of the famous holy spirit, you have managed to give me Names of the father; Yahweh, Jehovah, Adonia, Elohim, Jesus said Eloi, you also have managed to give the name of the son: Jesus, and you dubiously say he is also Immanuel, which no one ever called him in the Bible, a clear sign that the prophesy failed on Jesus, and God wasnt with you people, but instead it is Satan that are exciting you people to ignore the Mercy of Allah pumping you people in arrogance. Yet, you have not given me a single name of the Holy spirit! Its either you dont know it, or there is no name for him, her, it, or there is no holy spirit? Let your conscience worry you on it. I am a two part parson. I am created and weak and depend on God Almighty Alone Who has no partner, and His Name is Allah. Since you said one part of Yahweh is created and you name that part Jesus, tell me the part that is not created which must have a name, since the other Part, the Third which is not created also have a name; Yahweh? By the way, Yahweh simply means The Lord. Thats not a Proper name. Allah is the Proper Name. By accent, the semitic languages say Elaw, Eloi, also.



[QUote]sweetnecta:
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Mo ti gbo. Mo ri eni ti mo fi jo; Jesus. Read above. he will acquire them according to Isaiah, unless you are going to say Isaiah is incorrect? What is so profound is what I bold; Fear of God. How can one God fear another God, especially if they are one and the same, or part of the same in some different manifestation? Take your choice and explain to us.

Isaiah 11:2
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Sweetnecta, The verse as quoted above (and the part you bolded), was explaining the 'SPIRIT OF THE LORD'. It is strange that you welcome and claim a characteristic of the 'SPIRIT OF THE LORD' but you reject the 'SPIRIT OF THE LORD' - THE HOLY SPIRIT.[/Quote]Seyi, let me ask you, does your soul/spirit fear you? Does it make sense that the Spirit of The Lord (Yahweh) fears The Lord (Yahweh)?

[Quote] #191 on: November 13, 2010, 07:32 PM »
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Allah is Akbar. Above, we see that even Deborah, a woman just like Mary experience something of the holy spirit. She and the men, above had the same experience; {Holy Spirit}came upon and manifest through them and spoke to people through them. In each and all of them, point out one of them that now not a human being, made/created by God, and you can say is now God or sonor daughter or had some other relationship with God by these contacts, many times on each person except that he/she is human, servant slave, take your choice? Why is not the same with Jesus and his mother, who suddenly become son of God, even God himself, while the mother by such a title on her son is called Mother of God by the catholic?

Please revisit the original post and rephrase your questions as they are not clear? What exactly do you need me to clarify?[/Quote]Many Biblical leaders, male and females, including Deborah experienced holy spirit. Thats what you stated fro your Bible. If none of them was daughter, or son, why is jesus, with same exact holy spirit experience becomes son of God, indeed God Himself, yet made, while Adam and lady Eve without mother nor father are not son and daughter of God, inddeed God Himself or Herself? You see lack of critical thinking here, especially when Jesus and disciples all said without any dissension that Jesus is servant (no wages for him, just like slave Muhammad (AS)), sent by God?



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The two bold prove that even men who had the same qualification as Jesus, before Jesus arrived on heart were mere human beings. Children of their parents, from their mother's wombs. Why a slant when it comes to Jesus that he suddenly became God and son of God? Adam was reported to have received the breath of the spirit of God, and made in the Image of God, yet you never called him God or son of God? He didnt have a father not a mother, earthly for that matter, a step higher than that of earthly mothered and born Jesus. Now tell me why Jesus is God and or begotten son of God, while these others are not?

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WHile the above verses from the mouth of Ezekiel are recorded, very similar indeed are they to what jesus was recorded to say in the NT. But Ezekiel is not God or even less His son, but Jesus who said the same is God and even that His son, still looking for glorification, elevation from the third part, The Holy Spirit. What height is Jesus looking for or what height shall the Holy spirit put him, which shall be classified to "he shall glorify me", so that we have the fulfillment of tat verse?

No man before Jesus had the authority that he had! He was 'God with us', God come down to us in human form! Only Jesus died for us on the cross, Ezekiel and co did not.[/QUote]He had no single authority that is significant. He was not a leader of his people because he did not step forward to claim any leadership of the Jews. Moses was a leader; led them for at least close to 40 years between Egypt and next door Israel, as we can see their closeness today, while you people say its wilderness. Moses could take lives; indeed God made their elders died under the anger of Moses for their IDOLATRY. Moses spared life of a hebrew while he killed an Egyptian evil doer. In the Quran Allah allow the restoration of life, of a dead man, so that he can tell his people that which of his people ended his life, by mere striking the corpse with a slaughtered cow, in Chapter 2. Nothing the Biblical Jesus did that was impressive that you could say that he was unique. Nothing. He couldnt face his enemy. He could not not manage any victory. he begged God as normal humans must. He cried like normal humans must. He finally acted as a believer blaming God as satan did when he refused to bow down to Adam. If you cant see anything faulty about Jesus, his crying out " . . . . why has Thou forsaken me?" is a proof of his disbelief, unless somebody puts it there, thinking that it made Jesus look good, while in reality it shows pure disbelief?

[Quote]« #190 on: November 13, 2010, 07:19 PM »

Could please answer the following questions when you get back, Sweetnecta?

1. When was Mohammed Born?[/Quote]The Year of the Elephant army man "Abraha" invasion of Makka. He (AS) was born on Monday.



[Quote]2. When was the Quran written?[/Quote]Revelation started when the messenger was 40 and ended when he died at 63. Written down were in patches as revelations were made on him, so that each was emorized, recited, used for salah, for Islamic duties, taught to people, etc. Compiled into a full singular book of Quran within the first few years of his death (AS) under the leadership of Aisha's father, Kalifah Abu Bakr (RA), one of the earliest revert to Islam with no history of having a single child after he entered Islam, in the first year of revelation. Allah is Akbar, and here your issue of Aisha's age (RA) was also answered. Making it to a book was because the muslim reciters, who had memorized the Quran were being slaughtered in hundreds by tribes who are enemies of Islam by deceitful acts, claiming that they had accepted Islam, hence send reciters to teach us, but instead they kill them. This is similar to today's gimmicks, except that the enemies of today also use additional method to decimate the muslims, mass killings with their smart bombs, and white Sulfur and aggressive tactics of lies some people will make up a story about his being a muslims before, and then leaving it to become, usually Christian with 3 gods of which one of them satan was not aggressive enough to push down the cliff, but jewish mobs had to finish the job anyway. The same jews that satan was able to excite their fathers to worship cow they called jehovah!



[Quote]3. Who dictated/wrote/compiled the contents quran?[/QUote]Directly from Allah to Muhammad from Jibril, except the 4 last verses of Surah Baqarah. That was revelation. The rest is answered in question 2, above.



[Quote]4. when was Islam established/started?[/QUote]Before judaism. Definitely before Christianity. The finishing process was completed under Muhammad (AS), in that 23 years of revelation. All Messengers and Prophets fro Adam (AS) to Muhammad (AS) were Muslims, and they all participated in "Islam".

Children reaching the "age of marriage" in Noble Verse 4:6:
Yusuf Ali: [004:006] Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is God in taking account.‏

So here the adult who is keeping the orphan's inheritance from his/her deceased parents is required by Allah Almighty to never release the money until:
1- The orphan, boy or girl, reaches the age of marriage.
2- The adult keeper must see a "sound judgment" and enough maturity and responsibility in him/her in order for the former to be allowed to release the money to the orphan.
3- Female-children becoming fataaya (young ladies) become ready to be "wed":

Noble Verse(s) 4:25
Yusuf Ali: [004:025] If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And God hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

A girl starts out being a child طفلة. This is further proven in Noble Verses 22:5 and 40:67 above (طفلا child). Then she becomes a fataat فتاة , which is what فتياتكم (your young ladies) is derived from in Noble Verse 4:25. Clearly, Allah Almighty never allowed marriage with a طفلة child! Furthermore, Allah Almighty Said:

Noble Verse(s) 24:59
Yusuf Ali: [024:059] But when the children among you come of age, let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age): Thus does God make clear His Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom. (children) is a plural, and it is derived from طفل (child), which is singular. الحلم, which is translated as "come of age", literally means when the child knows about sex. For boys, it also means that when he experiences his first ejaculation either in his sleep or through masturbation. So clearly again, Allah Almighty differentiated between the children and the teenagers.

Hadith about marriage. Prophet Muhammad's advise to "O young grown-ups (shabab)" (يا معشر الشباب) for marriage: Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him said:

Narrated 'Alqama: "While I was with Abdullah, 'Uthman met him at Mina and said, "O Abu 'Abdur-Rahman ! I have something to say to you." So both of them went aside and 'Uthman said, "O Abu 'Abdur-Rah. man! Shall we marry you to a virgin who will make you remember your past days?" When 'Abdullah felt that he was not in need of that, he beckoned me (to join him) saying, "O 'Alqama!" Then I heard him saying (in reply to 'Uthman), "As you have said that, (I tell you that) the Prophet once said to us, 'O young people (يا معشر الشباب)! Whoever among you is able to marry, should marry, and whoever is not able to marry, is recommended to fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, BOOK 62: Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Number 3)"

شباب is a plural of both شاب, which means "young man" or a "young grown-up man", and شابة, which means a "young woman" or a "young grown-up woman". شباب is a masculine plural, and in Arabic, these plurals include both the males and females as long as both the males and females are included. They could also refer to only males, but they could never refer to only females. شابات would be the females-only plural of شابة.

Since شباب could definitely be referring to both the males and the females from among the Muslims, and since the context is about marriage, then obviously, the Prophet, peace be upon him, addressed both the men and women, even if the context seems to be pointing mainly at the men (fast to diminish your sexual power). It doesn't exclude the women and the requirement of them being also able to marry, because marriage is a serious lifetime commitment.

Notice how the Prophet of Islam, peace be upon him, talked with the young grown-ups and not to children. A young grown-up can not marry unless he/she is ready:
1. Physically 2. Mentally 3. Emotionally 4. Psychologically 5. Financially (especially for the men) 6. Socially

Notice how the Prophet said: "Whoever among you is able to marry,". He only urged those who are able to marry to go ahead and get married as soon as possible, so that they would fulfill their lives, desires, and remove all loneliness and voids in their lives. Also, in the areas of harvesting, herding cattle, constantly moving for new supplies of water (in the desert), marriage brings a big advantage to both the man and female, because they often work together to harvest, take care of the cattle (sheeps, cows, camels, goats, etc, ), and other livestock such as chickens, and protect each others. Plus, they strengthen the society by bringing more children. Waiting for too long to get married, as we do today, was pointless back then, and is also pointless today in these areas and conditions.

Age of Aisha (RA) in marriage continues:


In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of `Abdul `Uzza, from whom `Abdullah and `Asmaa’ were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom `Abdur-Rahman and `A’ishah were born. These four were born before Islam.

Looking at `A'ishah's impressions of her early life, we can indeed see that she was born before the Call:

Since I reached the age when I could remember things, I have seen my parents worshiping according to the right faith of Islam. Not a single day passed but Allah’s Messenger visited us both in the morning and in the evening. When the Muslims were persecuted, Abu Bakr set out for Ethiopia as an emigrant. When he reached a place called Bark Al-Ghimad, he met Ibn Ad-Daghna, the chief of the Qara tribe, who asked Abu Bakr, “Where are you going?” Abu Bakr said, “My people have turned me out of the country and I would like to tour the world and worship my Lord.” Ibn Ad-Daghna said, “A man like you will not go out, nor will he be turned out, as you help the poor earn their living, keep good relations with your kith and kin, help the disabled (or the dependents), provide guests with food and shelter, and help people during their troubles. I am your protector. So, go back and worship your Lord at your home.”

Ibn Ad-Daghna went along with Abu Bakr and took him to the chiefs of Quraysh saying to them, “A man like Abu Bakr will not go out, nor will he be turned out. Do you turn out a man who helps the poor earn their living, keeps good relations with kith and kin, helps the disabled, provides guests with food and shelter and helps the people during their troubles?” (Al-Bukhari 3: 37 #494)

Age of Aisha (RA at marriage continues:


If we dig deeper, we find that the great Islamic historian Ibn Jarir At-Tabari in his History iterated:

In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of `Abdul `Uzza, from whom `Abdullah and `Asmaa’ were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom `Abdur-Rahman and `A’ishah were born. These four were born before Islam.

The issue of `A’ishah bint Abi Bakr has arisen purely around the fact that she married Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) when she was young and as you said, “Do we know what her true age was?” The problem is that we are dependent on reports of information. Even with accurate reporting, it is difficult to sustain that level of accuracy 100% of the time, all the time.

The true records that are referred to by Muslims for guidance are the Qur’an and the Hadiths (traditions) of Prophet Muhammad, the essence of both of which is the religion of Islam. They are not sociology textbooks although Islam covers all aspects of life. One of the foremost records depended upon is the collection of hadiths of Prophet Muhammad in the Sahih of Al-Bukhari. From the translation of Dr. Amin Al-Masri of Cambridge University, England and Head of Shari`ah at the College of Shari`ah and Islamic Studies in Makkah, we are informed:

Age of Aisha (RA) in marriage continues:


Islamic scholar Maulana Muhammad Ali was one of the first to challenge `A’ishah’s age. In his books Muhammad, the Prophet and Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he states:

A great misconception prevails as to the age at which `A’ishah was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa`d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr (father of `A’ishah) was approached on behalf of the Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that `A’ishah must have been approaching maturity at the time.

Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatimah, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than `A’ishah. This shows that `A’ishah must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be.

This is further borne out by the fact that `A’ishah herself is reported to have stated that when the fifty-fourth chapter [i.e., surah] of the Qur’an entitled “The Moon” [Al-Qamar] was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that `A'ishah could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal.

And there is one report in the Tabaqat that `A’ishah was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of `A’ishah took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal. This is while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijrah in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence, there is not the least doubt that `A’isha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage

Age of Aisha (RA) in Marriage continues:


Tabari also reports that Abu Bakr's four children were all born during the Jahiliyyah, (Al-Tabari, Tarikhu’l-umam wa’l-mamlu’k, Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara’l-fikr, Beirut, 1979) the pre Islamic period, which is said to have ended in 610 CE, making Aisha at least twelve in 622 CE when Aisha started living with Muhammad.

Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl".(Sahih Bukhari 6:60:399) The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah.(M. M. Khatib, The Bounteous Koran, 1989 ISBN 0-333-34738-2) According to this tradition, Aisha had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl, not even only an infant at that time. So if this age is assumed to be 7 to 14 years then her age at the time of marriage would be 16 to 23.

According to almost all the historians, Asma bint Abu Bakr, the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than Aisha. (Al-Dhahabi, Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Vol. 2, p. 289, Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risalah, Beirut, 1992
Ibn Kathir, Al-Bidayah wa’l-nihayah, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)
Asma is reported to die in the 73 AH, when she was 100 years old.Ibn Kathir, Al-Bidayah wa’l-nihayah, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933
Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, p. 654, Arabic, Bab fi’l-nisa’, al-harfu’l-alif, Lucknow)
Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in the 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of Migration to Medina (1 AH). If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at that time, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at the same time. Thus, Aisha - if she got married in 1 AH or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Age of Aisha in Marriage continues;

Comparison of hadith of Aisha's age with hadith of Laylat al-Qadr, in which 1 was used for 21, 3 for 23, 5 for 25 and so on, suggest that maybe Aisha's reports were transmitted literally and 16 became 6 and 19 became 9, as it is a way of talking in Arabic language when base is already known.
(Hakim Niaz Ahmad, تحقیق عمرعا،ہ صدیقہ (Research on the age of Ayesha), Mashkoor Academy, Karachi.)

Evidences from Islamic literature

According to hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE (Sahih Muslim, 19:4472) and then in 625 CE in the Battle of Uhud. (Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:131) As no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties,(Sahih Bukhari 5:59:423 , Sahih Muslim 19:4466 ) Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, records Aisha as having converted to Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab, during the first few years of Islam around 610 CE. In order to accept Islam she must have been walking and talking, hence at least three years of age, which would make her at least fifteen in 622 CE.(Ibn Hisham, Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Vol. 1, p.227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh )

Tabari reports that Abu Bakr wished to spare Aisha the discomforts of a journey to Ethiopia soon after 615 CE, and tried to bring forward her marriage to Mut`im ibn `Uday's son. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam, but if Aisha was already of marriageable age in 615 CE, she must have been older than nine in 622 CE.(Tabari, Vol. 1, pg. 493, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Age of Aisha, Al-Rahman Publishing Trust, Karachi ) (p.91)

The story about Aisha (RA) continues:

Authenticity of hadith regarding Aisha's age

Reports regarding Aisha's age were recorded during the Abbasid caliphate when Aisha's youth might be deliberately emphasized by scholars to reject Shi'a claims for the descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib.

(D. A. Spellberg, Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past: the Legacy of A'isha bint Abi Bakr, Columbia University Press, 1994)

Most of the narratives regarding Aisha's age are reported only by Hisham ibn Urwa reporting on the authority of his father. All the narratives of this event have been reported through narrators from Iraq, where Hisham ibn Urwa is reported to have shifted after living in Madinah for seventy-one years. It is reported in one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to Muhammad that Yaqub ibn Shaibah said, "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq.[20] Another book on the narrators of the traditions of Muhammad reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly.[21]
( Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, 15th century. Vol 11, p. 50 )
(Al-Dhahabi, Mizanu’l-ai`tidal, Al-Maktabatu’l-athriyyah, Sheikhupura, Pakistan, Vol. 4, p. 301)

Muhammad is attributed to say, "A woman must be consulted and get her permission to make the marriage valid".(Mishkat al-Masabih translation by James Robson, Vol. I, p.665) According to another report, Aisha at the age of nine was rather more interested to play with toy-horses than to take up the responsible task of a wife. (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol.6, p. 33 and 99) The permission of an immature girl cannot be a valid authorization for marriage.

iQuote]« #189 on: November 13, 2010, 07:04 PM »

From: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=524918.msg7118285#msg7118285

Quote
@Seyibrown: 2. The Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim.The bold does not imply that if they disagree with the Quran and also does not start with "The Messenger of Allah said such and such", that it will accepted. It is because these two were the best among the many, and it does not mean that there is no good in the others, too.

Given that you admit that Bukhari is one of the best,[quote][/Quote]In hadith collection. Bukhari (ra) did not collect every hadith and if all his hadith were correct and he had collected everything that was Islam, shall we not be saying that he was as perfect in his book as Quran is Perfect? The implication will be heavy in many dimensions; some may compare him to his Creator, less to his leader, the Messenger (AS). Alhamdulillah that we can see deficiencies in it, when we cross check some hadith with the verse of the Quran, just as we see deficiencies in the Bible. Hadith about Aisha is one of them.



[Quote]then his account of the consummation of the marriage at 9 years is correct,[/Quote]Alhamdulillah that there is nothing I am ashamed of about Muhammad (AS). Could you tell me, when Aisha was born relative to her father's acceptance of Islam? You can research it out, since I have presented hadith, and or historical accounts, and your mind refuses truth. Now give your truth with evidence, because you sound like empty but broken record on the turn table.



[Quote]and your attempt to cover up the fact that Mohammed had sex with Aisha at 9 years of age (and she was still playing with dolls), has failed because you are not as muslim as bukhari and you do not have the knowledge that he had,[/Quote]the bold seems to be your problem. You dont know that women love stuffed toys like teddy bears? Valentine is coming and the sales of stuffed toys as well as candies and perfume will be spiked up from the normal month to month demands. Who do you think the men are buying the stuffed toys for, except their sexual partners? Are these women underage?



[Quote]and you have not provided me an account from the Quran or another credible Hadith to support your theory of Aisha being older at the time of consummation! . . . . and your attempt to discredit Bukhari by claiming he had mental problems towards the end of his life also failed. He was very right in the head when he wrote his account![/Quote]You need to show me where I said the bold. Must you not be able to tell the truth? You are a woman, which one came first for you, pubic hairs, wet dream, breasts, menstrual period, age 15, as yu became mature in Islam, while the Jews say only age 13 years makes you an adult? Please dont answer it alout, but something for you to think about only as you read the below; [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty - Cached - Similar]
another source; Some background information, he rejects the hadiths in Bukhari that say she was 9 because they all go back to one person who, although he was trustworthy, suffered from bad memory at later age.

5. It is known that between the marriage contract and Aisha's moving to the Prophet's household, there was a 3-year gab during which she stayed with her parents.

6. It is also known that her moving to the Prophet's household took place in the first or second year after migration from Makkah to Madina. It is also known that the Makkan period lasted for 13 years, and the famous biographer Ibn Is-haq lists the name of Aisha among the very early persons who accepted Islam in the first few months of the Prophet's mission. If we were to add a minimum age of Aisha to understand what she was accepting, say 4 + the 13 years in Makkah + 1 or 2 years in Madina, it adds up probably to 19 years and not only 9, which is the number reported in Al-Bukhari.

7. While the above is more than enough, it is noted also that many historians have debated the age of Aisha when she married the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). One is that some say that Aisha died at the age of 50 after migration, at the age of 67, which means that she was born 17 years old before migration, and since her marriage was consummated one or two years after migration, it must have taken place at the age of 19.

8. It is also known that her sister Asmaa was 10 years her senior. It is interesting to note that Asmaa died in the year 73 after migration, at the age of 100, this means she was born 27 years before migration (100-73). Since she was 10 years older, then Aisha was born 17 years before migration, which is consistent with these other reports.

@Olaadegbu; Today's western countries have its own christian on christian crimes and killings. You can lie to local man Aletheia. I live in the west. I know the mind of the western people like i know the mind of africans.

Anti Poverty family law center in the carolinas was so formed because the christians are still other christians based on skin color, similar to the northern nigerian muslims killing southern nigerian muslims. each has his own artificial reasons. Go to Utah, and Nevada for example the mormons, a christian set hate black people with the most intense passion.

President Barack Obama is derided for his 50% blackness, by mainstream white southern christians. Aetheia, Olaadegbu nton e. When you are ready to see the world, I will arrange a visitation letter so that you can see the ugly christians at work. those who will give you bananas with the overt and subtle message that you are a freaking monkey will do it to your face. They will not let you live in their community, attend their churches, even though its in your neighborhood. you wil be forced to go the distance to find black people's chirch. and the blacks may even through a class jab or two at your ignorant african mind.

lol. at least a well educated northern muslim will not discriminate against his brother in Islam. I have them in Nigeria and outside of her as i am talking to you now. we have One God, same Paradise, Same Quran, same Messenger, same Qibla and we are one body.

Ko kuku le ye eyin keferi.

@Olaadegbu: « #18 on: Today at 04:33:00 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta/Nopuqeater or whatever you call yourself,
Listen once again to how Jesus Christ described satan/devil and this will help you recognise his identity and who you are dealing with:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". -- John 8:44[/Quote]You curse who your call your spiritual "Father" as muslim curse the devil when they say "I seek protection of God against the acursed devil"?



[Quote]I hope you know who inspires who to commit murder in the name of their lord as this is evidenced in the northern part of Nigeria.[/Quote]You tube; destination, Guatanamo bay Cuba. The american military will subject the muslim captives into all kind of torture, including peeing on them, and worse. They will top it all by wrapping muslims with Israeli flag and kiss the cross (th e burden of their hearts that are on their necks) and say; This is a gift from "Jesus to you Muslims". Now who is oppressing the other via his religion? Olaadegbu, please change your name from the yoruba heritage to whatever pleases you.



[Quote]Who speaks a lie and is a liar and the father of it? Let us see what is written in your "holy book" about the allah you worship:

But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and allah was deceptive, for allah is the best of deceivers Surah. 3:54

Your qur'an affirms allah to be the best of deceivers, a deceiver is a liar if you don't know.[/Quote]A liar whom Allah makes his lie[s] coe to zero, is a good strategy from his Lord WHo protected the innocent and enough as Support of the believers.



[Quote]Did you also lie when you said earlier that I was a major contributor to a thread which Tonye T exposed the joke in your hadiths when I only made two posts there? or where you just practising al taqqiya which is part and parcel of your worship?[/Quote]One contribution of lie makes you a majority. You dont think outside the box. The crock of Tonye-T about the hadith is that it is superstition, hence he and you laughed as if there is no common sense in your head. But then you turned around and blabbing about "Satan meeting", whereby you were reading letters from him. Do you have no shame, especially when satan took your god to the edge of the cliff? A person with a brain will say thats no God, if satan can get him to where you said we can find him. Abraham was right when he destroyed the little idols but left the big one with an ax on his neck, telling his people to ask it about the obvious result of the other broken idols. Who are you gonna ask about how your little god got to the edge of the cliff? Was he carried like a bride over the threshold or was strung along like a puppet by the mind game?



[Quote]Let us see what Moammad your lord has to say about Adam in Bukhari, Vol.4. Bk.55, No.543:[/Quote]Muhammad (AS) is not y Lord, or lord. I have no lord. I have a Lord. He is The Lord, Allah The Almighty. I'm not like you, darn idolater.



[Quote]Moammad said Adam was 90ft (ninety feet) tall.[/Quote]Correct. And there were Dinosaurs. Giant dinosaurs. You can see their fossilized remains. Watch national Geography. You live in England. Use the opportunity of being in the world, and not cocooned in your abysmal locale in your hut back home. Ara abule; lol.



[Quote]I can understand the fact that your illiteracy makes it difficult for you to comprehend how ridiculous it sounds for a human being to be ninety feet tall but what surprises me is that those of your fellow slaves who claim to be educated swallow this lie hook, line and sinker because you are all hoodwinked by whatever your lord (moammad) says even when it is not reasonable, If anyone believes this claim in this part of the world they will be said to be suffering from mental illness.[/Quote]This part of the world is where I live. I live in the epicenter of the Universe. You know where that is? This is bigger than London. Am sure since you have a village man mentality, giant grass eating dinosaurs did not exist therefore? And he lives in England folks. Aletheia, you are excused snce your brother who is more worldly is in the same boat as you, a local man, too.



[Quote]"The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" -- John 10:10[/Quote]Who is the thief here, Jesus or satan? How is the thief stealing and you dont see what he stole from you? Now use that to understand what the prophet (AS)said of Satan, slow in thinking you.



[Quote]So, the earlier you give Jesus Christ a place in your life the better it will be for your life.[/QUote]I am dealing with the prophetic leader (AS) of Jesus son of Mary (AS). If Jesus were to have been alive when Muhammad started his ministry, he would have hastened to meet Muhammad (AS), as a follow, either in Makka or later in Madina. Gba be.

Allah Answered Tonye- and his supporters by exposing them in ways Only He Can. Olaadegbu just opened a thread where he is talking about their patron, satan, with the Title; Satan's Meeting


Is there anything more to say? Suddenly the christians cant stop themselves from acnowledging the presence of satan, even though they will not avoid him.

@Olaadegbu: You and shaytan are partners, anyway. So read what he wrote to you to yourself, as he can rope you at will. Just like he played your god, carrying him physically or spiritually (i wonder which one does not cheapen even a prophet of God?), to the edge of a cliff. Even a blind man knows that it is absurd to follow an enemy to that extend. I am Under the Full Protection of Allah.


[Quote]« #15 on: Today at 05:39:27 AM »
Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 09:36:00 PM
@Olaadegbu: You are a two faced man. You have no honor in my sight. God has taken honor away from you. Why? You were a major contributor to the lies of Tonye-T in his Thread about Muhammad ibn Abdullah (AS) teaching Muslims by hadiths of the evil ways of Shaytan.

Did I touch a nerve when I exposed the secret agenda of satan that you did not expect us to know about? I only made two contributions there how then did I become a major contributor? except those two posts carries weight and shook your defense: These are the two posts I made in a thread that consists nothing less than 240 posts and which of them do you dispute?[/Quote]I can excuse Aletheia who was educated in Nigeria to goof off in the matters of critical meaning of the english expressions. You Olaadegbu who was educated in and practice your specialization in England cant be excused for not knowing what 2 faced and contributor to the lies or lie mean relative to the Thread of Tonye-T who suddenly found himself in a lock down like the rat he really is.

You are two faced because, according to you and tonye-t, etc it appears that what tricks the Prophets laid out that shaytan employs seems unreal, hence superstitious and hilarious. You are a contributor to the lie or lies because you deem the hadith as unfounded, hence laughable, with your childish pranks of posting cartoons, which you have grown out of. We know you have to doddle, but does it have to be everytime? Cant you think? Muhammad (AS) explained in details the workings of shaytan, your patron, and how we the believers in One Singular God should avoid it because we must not be complaisant about him; know your enemy is the term here. How come you think you exposed the secret agenda of satan that we do not want you to know? Is the Hadith not available to you? Is the Quran not available to you? What did you do but scorn both of them? You are on your own and it is certain that you will have no excuse on the day of Judgment.



]Quote]Quote
According to Bukhari, Vol.4. Bk.55, No.543:
Mo. said Adam was 90ft. tall. Shocked I wonder how he got that revelation and from whom? Undecided[quote][/Quote]Muhammad (AS) Rasulullah. He got it from Allah. Shocked? You have seem big and tall people in Europe? Go to the Scandinavian countries. Come to America. And there used to be herbivorous dinosaurs. Guess who will also munch of them, but humans. You think those humans will be 4 ft tall, you ridiculous mind? Havent you seem giant size foot prints? What size of man do you think will have it; 4 ft 6 ins tall? Imagine when Adam and Even were the two people on earth. How pure was the air the breathed? You will expect these two to just be only 5 ft tall, yet your silly mind accept that "Sons of God came on earth and found Daughters of men, whom they got pregnant and produce giants"? How tall were these giants? Think hard before you respond to me.



[Quote]Quote
Some of them still carryover their superstitions into Christianity even when they are converted. Such as not talking when they are in the Gents.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-524918.224.html[/Quote]Those who wish to enter Hell are allowed so. I guess a former muslim is now a Kufar. I have news for you. In normal situation the "gents"mere bathroom/toilet cant measure up to the living room, kitchen, bedroom, etc, even dressing room or closet, in terms of preferred place to hang out in or talk in for a reasonable period, regardless of opulence of the "GENT". Your thinking is lazy.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 09:36:00 PM
You have the gul, you spineless wimp, to start a thread about Satan and his "Scheme". You area typical "TYPICAL". If there is a liar, your image is enough to demonstrate it.

Was it anything I said about satan that has gotten you foaming in the mouth like this?[/Quote]I dont foam from the mouth, you silly mind. That mouth foaming is left for you and your pastors, when they are scheming monies out of your pockets, working in conjunction with satan to lead you to hell. I am call your sorry soul back and you cant appreciate that.



[Quote]You need to hear the truth from Jesus' mouth so that you can recognise who the liar really is:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". -- John 8:44[/Quote]He is talking about you. You just received a letter from Satan, above, you said it yourself. Consider the above, can we say that Jesus was not a fiery band and will not fight if it comes to it, the reason he ordered swords for his associates?



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 09:36:00 PM
You see how Allah Supports His Messenger (AS), by making your heart author what you said here, and for me to wonder into it? Allah is Akbar. People like you deserve humiliation on that Day, when everyone is alone with his/her belief.

Walid Shoebat must have been right when he proved that allah and satan are one and the same, and we can confirm this with the way you are now breathing fire and brimestone because of your master, satan. Read the letter from satan and wake up.[/Quote]My getting your attention is now breathing fire and brimstone. You are grown man, who does not deserve "kid glove's treatment". You think spear the rod and spoil the child is what you deserve? No sir, you need dirty broken shoes to be thrown against your hard heart. Just maybe your case may become a renaissance. This is for your own good, since Jesus already insulted you, above. A ngba oo ediye ara e lowo iku, o ni won je ki owun lo sori akiton lo jele. Asha nduro de tio ba gbo. You Olaadegbu will enter hell, if you dont call yourself into reason.



[Quote]https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=518186[/QUote]America, indeed the west and specifically the gullible love the novelty of lies. Shoebat is the darling of Christianity, just like Jakov (the "What a country" expression famed) the Russian comedians was in the cold war. Where is he today? he was used and discarded. A disbelieving arab is the best poster child of the mindset of America against Islam post 911. And Satan provided many palestinians and arabs; male and female of them. This is big news to you. But to us we expect it and welcome it whole heartedly. Through it, people are coming in into islam. Where is your thining cap?

^^^^^^^Philippians, Romans, Galatians all equal to Irinke Rindo ni igbo Irunmole. Everyone of them is not but made up. Olaadegbu, o ki nti ju ni?

He is now "MADE", will you maintain that he is the Maker. Imagine that!

@Aletheia: « #197 on: Yesterday at 11:26:05 PM »
[Quote]Muslims are guilty of that which they accuse Christians of.

Quote from: aletheia on November 14, 2010, 10:05 PM
They may not directly claim him to be a god but. . .
So sad, that you are defending something you know so little about? Let's examine the evidence:

#1. The Quran claims that the very object of the prayers of Allah, his angels, and believers is none other than Muhammad:

Surely Allah and His angels pray on the Prophet; O you who believe! pray on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation. Those who annoy Allah and his Apostle Allah has cursed them in this world and in the Hereafter and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. S. 33:56-57

The above makes it rather obvious that Muhammad is the center of everyone’s attention, including Allah’s![/Quote]Which of the fountain of knowledge did you drink from? Maybe the new ones, I bet. Is Allah praying in Surah Azhab? Is His Salaam or Teslim on Muhammad (AS0 the same as the Angels and or the Muslims? We should look at the Tafsir for education, becuase when Jacob bowed his face to Joseph, was he worshiping him, or a fulfillment of what was seen in dream by Prophet Joseph? Were the Angels worshiping Adam when God Commanded them to prostrate their faces to Adam? All of these were Commandments of Allah. The following explains what your dubious mind saw, but recoiled to lies instead: The Command to say Salah upon the Prophet

Al-Bukhari said: "Abu Al-`Aliyah said: "Allah's Salah is His praising him before the angels, and the Salah of the angels is their supplication.'' Ibn `Abbas said: "They send blessings.'' Abu `Isa At-Tirmidhi said: "This was narrated from Sufyan Ath-Thawri and other scholars, who said: `The Salah of the Lord is mercy, and the Salah of the angels is their seeking forgiveness. There are Mutawatir Hadiths narrated from the Messenger of Allah commanding us to send blessings on him and how we should say Salah upon him. We will mention as many of them as we can, if Allah wills, and Allah is the One Whose help we seek. In his Tafsir of this Ayah, Al-Bukhari recorded that Ka`b bin `Ujrah said, "It was said, `O Messenger of Allah, with regard to sending Salam upon you, we know about this, but how about Salah'



[QUote]#2. Allah is often times Muhammad's spokesman. For example:

O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah. S. 33:53[/QUote]Who is the Commander here? WHich book is this, but Quran? Who is the Speaker in it but Allah the Almighty? Remind me not to let my children go to the same fountain of knowledge that you went.



[Quote]Isn't it Muhammad that is supposed to his god's spokesman; and not the other way round. Consider that Muslims make the claim that the qur'an was pre-existent in heaven before being sent down piecemeal and yet so much of its "supposed" revelations deal with prophet's preferences some of them of a sexual nature---this from a book written in heaven.[/Quote]I wo o le bo binrin sun ni? Abi akura ni e ni? The fact that the answer to each event comes down as appropriate, is actually a proof that it was written before and the event was made to match what needed to be answered. Muhammad (AS) was a spokesman by hearing and repeating what was Said, exactly as the Another Comforter was to do. You betray the holy ghost there, you know since his spokesmanship is voiceless. Ghost dont talk, to human, you know. Abi anjonu maa nba e soro?



[QUote]Another example:
"You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51).[/Quote]WHats wrong here? An old woman often does not have the energy and desire for sex as a young woman. You did not know that in your sex education 101?



[Quote]Even his wife Aisha found the haste with which Allah often complied with his prophet's desires mighty suspicious:
I ('A'isha.) said: It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3453)[/QUote]At the same time she (RA) said he was Quran full embodiment. Now I can see that you have no experience with women. You better get married and stop being afraid of commitment; you will also lose on earth since your loss in the day of Judgment is guaranteed if you die as a disbeliever in Allah.



[Quote]#3. Obsessive Muslim behavior and devotion to Muhammad.
Need I tell you about riots in Northern Nigeria or the furore over the Danish cartoons?

Urwa returned to his people and said, "O people! By Allah, I have been to the kings and to Caesar, Khosrau and An-Najashi, yet I have never seen any of them respected by his courtiers as much as Muhammad is respected by his companions. By Allah, if he spat, the spittle would fall in the hand of one of them (i.e. the Prophet's companions) who would rub it on his face and skin; if he ordered them, they would carry out his order immediately; if he performed ablution, they would struggle to take the remaining water; and when they spoke, they would lower their voices and would not look at his face constantly out of respect." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891)[/Quote]For providing this may Allah make you people of Paradise, if you enter Islam, if you refuse, you are on your own. You can see that if the Biblical Jesus had these men in his company, they would not have betrayed him, nor denied him, nor call one of the "Satan", or all of them people of little faith. Your heart is being forced to speak the truth you refuse to accept. Aanu iwo ogbeni yi she mi, pupo.



[Quote]#4. Condemned by their own qur'an:
Sura 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission): "God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."

But we see that this most crucial pillar has been distorted. Muslims have adopted a polytheistic version, and insist upon mentioning the name of Muhammad besides the name of Allah. However, the Quran's great criterion in 39:45 stamps these Muslims as disbelievers:[/QUote]Awon Keferi ki maa ro ri rara. If I show you verses where Allah Himself calls Muhammad His Messenger, will you abandon your disbelieving way?



[Quote]"When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with Him, they become satisfied."[/QUote] Others, plural. I thought you said you have some nominal education, at least? The others is nothing short of your type of idoatry, since you are a disbeliever. Does trinity ring a bell?



[Quote]Muslims claim that Islam was the religion of Abraham; yet if they will be truthful, the ONLY creed must be --- "there is no god except the One God)". Muhammad did not exist on earth before Abraham.[/QUote]And Muhammad (AS) was His Messenger in the time of Muhammad (AS) onward till end of time.



[Quote]The irony is that they accuse Christians of joining partners with God yet they are guilty of joining Muhammad as a partner to their God in their creedal statements and in other instances e.g.
a. The claim that Muhammad was pre-existent.[/Quote]It is in Surah Imran. Read man. You are boring for being lazy, or deceitful or both.



[Quote]b. The claim that salvation can be found in no other but Muhammad.[/QUote]From his prophethood period all the way till end of time. This is from the Quran since no Messenger or Prophet will come. Before Muhammad, salvation were with the prophets before him, within their individual time after the previous prophet, but before the prophet that appeared next.



[Quote]c. The claim that Muhammad is an intercessor.[/QUote]From Surah Fatir: The Inheritance of the Qur'an is of three kinds
Allah says: `Then We made those who uphold the Book confirming what came before, the one whom We have chosen from among Our servants. They are this Ummah, who are divided into three types.' Allah says: (Then of them are some who wrong themselves,) these are the ones who are careless about doing some obligatory actions, and who commit some forbidden actions. (and of them are some who follow a middle course,) these are the ones who fulfill their obligations and avoid things that are forbidden, but they may neglect some good deeds and do some things which are disliked.

(and of them are some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds.) these are the ones who do obligatory actions and things which are encouraged, and who avoid doing unlawful and disliked actions, and avoid some actions which are permissible. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas commented on the Ayah: (Then We gave the Book as inheritance to such of Our servants whom We chose. ) "This refers to the Ummah of Muhammad . Allah caused it to inherit every Book that He had revealed; those who wrong themselves will be forgiven, those who follow a middle course will have an easy accounting, and those who are foremost in good deeds will enter Paradise without being brought to account.'' Abu Al-Qasim At-Tabarani reported from Ibn `Abbas that the Messenger of Allah said one day:

(My intercession will be for those among my Ummah who commit major sins.)'' Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Those who are foremost in good deeds will enter Paradise without being brought to account; those who follow a middle course will enter Paradise by the mercy of Allah; and those who wrong themselves and Ashab Al-A`raf will enter Paradise by the intercession of Muhammad .'' It was also reported from a number of the Salaf that those among this Ummah who wrong themselves are still among those whom Allah has chosen, even though they are imperfect and fell short [by not adhering to the straight path]. Others said that those who wrong themselves are not part of this Ummah and are not among those whom Allah has chosen and who inherited the Book. The correct view is that they are also part of this Ummah.



[Quote]The qur'an explicitly denies that Muhammad is anything but a creature. To, therefore, include him alongside God in the creedal confession of faith is a severe compromise of pure monotheism, being an explicit act of associating a finite creature with God, what Islam considers to be the unpardonable sin of shirk (Cf. surah 4:48, 116).[/Quote]All says Muhammadanr Rasulullah. If you dare me, wager and I will show you in the Quran. is either I make you a destitute or a muslim, your choice, if you are strong in your knowledge. The 2 shahadah is ordained by Allah; Confirming His Lordship and His Prophet's Messengership (AS). WHats wrong with your thinking, when it is not like your human god declaration?



[Quote]To top it off, the Islamic creed is not even explicitly formulated within the chapters of the Quran, but is derived from later Islamic sources such as the hadith literature.[/Quote]In the life time of the Messenger (AS) the Shahadah was said by reverts, when they enter Islam. And in every salah during Tashahud which he accepted in heaven. Allah has more than the Names we know. At least 99 are known, and all can be found in the Quran. Others, more than that are available, outside the Quran. Yet more than what are known by man are with Allah.



[Quote]#5. The names of Muhammad.

According to Islam Allah has ninety-nine attributes commonly known in Islam as al-asma al-husna, "the beautiful names". Most of these are derived directly from the Qur'an (the first twelve follow in sequence in Surah 59:22-24) but some come from other sources. Muhammad as well has ninety-nine names, in this case the titles being known as al-asma ash-sharifa, "the noble names", which parallel the names of Allah. After reciting each name a faithful Muslim must recite the tasliya, "may the peace and blessings of God be upon him" (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam). These names are regarded with awe and reverence and are recited with keen religious esteem.[/Quote]And that eats your grapes? A messenger of Allah is honored by his Lord, so that such a honoring status, when repeated by believers bring Mercy, and you saddened by it? Your condition is worse than bandage. You need a shrink.



[Quote]A number of the divine names applied to Allah are also given to Muhammad. In Islam they share the following names: al-`Aziz, "the Noble"; ar-Ra'uf, "the Mild" and ar-Rahim, "the Merciful", both names being applied to the Prophet in Surah 9:128; al-Wali, "the Friend"; and al-Haqq, "the Truth" amongst others. A Muslim mystic was once moved to exclaim that the Prophet's beauty is the mirror of the Greatest Name of Allah, an indication of the extent to which reverence for the Prophet in Islam has come alongside the worship of Allah. In many modern printed Qur'ans the ninety-nine names of Allah are reproduced at the start of the book and the ninety-nine names of Muhammad appear in similar format at its end. These names are all displayed in their Arabic originals, usually in circles incorporating each respective title.[/Quote]I shake my head for you. Your condition is dire. Should the Quran in Arabic carries Muhammad (AS) honoring names in ENglish, so that they look watered down, though Allah has honored him, regardless? His Ra'uf is not the same as Allah Who is Al Ra'uf. A large Unbrella that covers the whole existence is different than an unbrella that covers just the hospital.

@Aletheia: « #198 on: Yesterday at 11:41:42 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: OLAADEGBU on Yesterday at 04:19:19 PM
If you are not Shia does that mean those that are Shittes are not bonafide Muslims?

What Sweetnecta will not tell you is that their hadiths tell them that after Muhammad, Islam will split into 73 sects (in reality, there are many more than that). Of the 73, only one is genuine and will be rescued from hell. Unfortunately, none knows which of the various sects is the one, so even "fruit juice" with his supposed Sunni affiliation is not certain his is the real sect---the other 72 will disagree with him.[/Quote]Alitalia. Lol. Fruit Juce? You are growing up, gradually still. Some day you will say Salaamualaykum. I am the first that will say this hadith. The fact that 72 will go to hell, first proofs that not all muslims shall goto hell, which makes the verse 71 of Surah Maryam comes alive. Allah is Great, and He has made you confess the Truth. But you forget that you and Jews and the rest shall enter hell without a single exception. I am working hard on myself to be in the one group among mankind that shall not enter hell. And I shall succeed, InshaAllah. I have proofs.



[Quote]Quote
"Abdullah b-Amr reported that the Messenger of Allah said: There will certainly come over my people what came to the children of Israil [sic] as closely as one sandal resembles another, so that if there was any of them who committed fornication with his mother openly, there will appear someone among my people who will commit that. The Israilites were divided into 72 sects and my people will be divided into 73 sects. Each of them will remain in the fire except one sect. They enquired: O Messenger of Allah! which is that? He said, That one on which I and my companions stand".
Mishkat I, pp. 169-170[/Quote]I am in that group, InshaAllah.



[Quote]But even at that the prophet of Islam got it wrong for:

Quote
"The number has, however, far exceeded the Prophet's predictions, for the sects of Islam even exceed in number and variety those of the Christian religion.
---Dictionary of Islam, pp. 567-569[/QUote]You are always living in abject ignorance. Similitude before explaining; whats the difference between Agnostics and Atheists, in your eye? This is similar to a group having the same agenda with another, but the only difference is in name. Are Sufis different from one another since they are in mysticism? Tijani and others among the Sufi practice the same thing. When at the end of time, there will be 73 divisions in Islam, 72 in Christianity and 71 in Judaism. All except 1 group will enter hell, along with the idol worshipers, atheists and agnostics, etc. Are you in the group that will not enter hell, alicia?



[Quote]It is only when it comes to Christians and Jews that you find them uniting otherwise Islam is a religion at war with itself as well as the rest of the world.[/Quote]And the Christians dont do the same? And the jews dont do the same? Althea, go sleep. Lol. You are notoriously ignorant about life.

Thinking; How many loaves of bread can support a big melon head, comfortable for a whole night? How long before they become like hard dough? There is a "good to eat" thing under such a head.

@Seyibrown; « #36 on: Today at 12:26:48 AM »
[Quote]Quote
Mary was married and remained virgin? Omoimole, you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none?

Pretend ignorance: You told me that Mary had a daughter but had been praying to God for a son, and the rest about how the angel met her and told her she would have a son on the way back from her 'end of menses' bath1 . . . . and all the rest! I do take in what you try to explain to me, Sweetnecta, what do you do with what I try to explain to you?[/Quote]Could you show me a post that I claimed the bold? I am sure Mary is different from her mother.



[Quote]The Bible says Joseph did not 'touch' Mary until after the child was born.[/Quote]Your Bible is a liar, since even you didnt last the night as a virgin after your marriage. Your husband was not as old to you as Joseph was as old to Mary. And old men are "impatience" around their young wife, wanting to proof their strength. I know. I am talking from experience.



[Quote] John 2:12 says he had brothers, and Matt. 13:54-56 says he had brothers and sisters. Since there was no record of Mary marrying any other, She had other children besides Jesus for Joseph![/Quote]Considering the fact that old man Joseph must have been married before, is that not obvious that Mary was just a step mother, since there was no record of her being pregnant, except on Jesus, and no other pregnancy. You are suggesting that Joseph was not a father, why would a man like that want a virgin at that age?



[Quote]I hope you check the Bible, remember this, and never ask the question again because it will be you 'pretending to be ignorant' of what has already been explained to you![/QUote]What is truth makes sense. What is a lie makes great confusion. Check your Bible with the admixture of lies and truth. Its like gari and yepe. when you soak them, you will see the gari separate from the yepe.



[Quote]« #37 on: Today at 12:40:11 AM »
Quote
And the foreleg informed him. But God had decreed on His messenger was already decreed. A usli poisoned is Shehid. Its amazing how tie and time again you do not have the ability to see the far away forest, but the grace always in fro of your nose.

Pretend ignorance: God decreed Mohammed's poisoning! God had nothing to do with Jesus Death (and resurrection), the Jews just decided to kill him, they did but he managed pretend he was dead and escaped to Kashmir when the Jews weren't looking! Grin[/QUote]You seem to be in quagmire of ignorance. While I never hypothesized that Jesus went and or died in Kashmir, and you can show my post on thi issue, if you continue to advance this idea. However, what is in contention about Jesus is primarily your claim that he is "God". Dead or alive, resurrected or not, each is secondary, and every alive shall die, and then every dead shall resurrect. But God is not bound by any of them. When you get that first, then it will become apparent that what the Quran says about Jesus; not dead yet, lifted up. Shall come back and shall die for the first time and shall resurrect for Judgment Day, like all that have died.



[Quote]Sweet, Please explain the bolded in English! Don't understand what is USLI or what is SHEHID! It's not fair when you try to cheat us with Arabic now! Grin[/QUote]Slip of the computer. The M refused to register."Muslim who dies of poison is a Martyr. There is no Arabic in it except Shehid [Martyr]. Oje ma pe ayon ore oko e ni "sweet". They may think that you are coming on to them; they are fast and loose. Remember that. Won o ni moo si aidaa.



[Quote]We'll never understand the teachings of Islam if you try to give it to us in Arabic. Ko si ede ti Olorun o gbo, so please speak the language that we understand. Leave the arabic for when you are communicating with learned muslims and Allah![/Quote]My response above covers your joke here.

@Aletheia: « #32 on: Today at 11:17:49 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 10:40:06 PM
And in case of Muhammad, you lied, again, making it 3 times in a row.Here is the hadith and tell me where you found her to be a "S-e-x slave", except that you are a joke; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

Stop chasing shadows and addressing irrelevancies: address the main issue.[/Quote]Tell me the difference[s] between the aboveand the one just below. Think before you start typing.



[Quote]Quote from: aletheia on November 14, 2010, 09:04 PM
Your hadiths and other Islamic historians do emphatically declare that your prophet died of poison at the hand of a woman.
From Bukhari's Hadith 3.786:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.

From Bukhari's Hadith 5.713:

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

From Ibn Sa'd's "the "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir"

Bishr did not rise form his seat but his color changed to that of "taylsan" (a green cloth). . .The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."

The apostle of Allah lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say, "I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaibar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein."

From Tabari's "History"

The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar."[/Quote]



[Quote]Are you now educated concerning how your prophet died shamefully at the hand of a woman?[/Quote]I wo yi o ni itiju sha. O de yoobun pelu e. Iru i wo yi ni awon to ma nso wipe yoruba yobun ri ti won fi so wipe o nilati je wipe ooto ni. If I should be ashamed that a 60 year old man ate poison and died at 63, what should you be doing when your god dies at 33? I think you need to do more than to be ashamed, with your perpetually in slumber soul.



[Quote]In fact he failed the test she set for him: 'You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you;[/Quote]And the foreleg informed him. But God had decreed on His messenger was already decreed. A usli poisoned is Shehid. Its amazing how tie and time again you do not have the ability to see the far away forest, but the grace always in fro of your nose.



[Quote]and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."' If Muhammad was a true prophet, then either:
A. He would have known the meat was poisoned before he put it in his mouth and chewed the morsel and refused to eat it, or
B. The poison would have had no effect on him.[/Quote]Lets lower the bar for your 33 year old god. I remember my 33rd birthday. I was strong like a Mule. Rugged looking with my beard then. A god killed by human mob, which he had avoided for a while, proofs that he aint no God, but god, like ogun, or whatever of the yoruba idolaters. To expect a Messenger who had delivered the message to remain on earth longer is based on pure disbelief. A man ate poison he died right there on the spot, while his boss who ate the same thing lived for three years before he died. tell me if the one who lived for three years is not special to have survived at all, never mind for 3 years?



[Quote]But as we can see your prophet did not know, so he chewed and your idol "al-ilah Hubal" of Mecca could not protect his prophet who subsequently suffered the effects of the poison for 3 years before dying of it.[/Quote]While Yahweh out rightly rejected the plea of his partner, we hear the partner saying "my God, my God. . . . .", because common Jews with billy clubs are doing him in. That should be a thing you need to address rather than a human prophet that survived the worst food poison for 3 years. If his survival was a sign for his prophethood, definitely your god dying as he was nailed shows he was not even a prophet according to the begging which was totally rejected. I dont know how far you want us to ride in your peril motorcade?



[Quote]From your qur'an, verse saying Jesus is alive:

3:55. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
^^Do you see that even your qur'an says those who follow Jesus (Christians) are above others.[/Quote]When was the bold said to Jesus? Who were the disbelievers while Jesus was alive; muslims under Muhammad (AS)? Apply knowledge and your mind simultaneously, sometimes.



[Quote]. . . typical of Islamic polemic; slander and lie without being specific.

Y'all deliberately misunderstand: Christians do not worship the god that Muslims worship. Our Heavenly Father is different from and not the same as "Allah". You will not find the name of your god in any of our scriptures.[/Quote]The bold is the only sensible thing you said, above. WHile your lords are disputing among themselves, one wants another to die, while the third is disregarded altogether, the one destined to die begged for mercy. Read your Bible, or whatever you wish to read; you will find it so. I am different in the fact that my Lord is One, unlike your 3 gods, who are trying upstage and outshine one another. You are in a rude awakening in their hands, in their differences in agenda. You will never be able to satisfy their egos, in their disputations.

@Omoimole: « #28 on: Today at 05:40:24 PM »
[Quote]Dear LagosShia,

Pls, kindly let me know which part of the Bible is really true and to be believed, and which part is false to be ignored. I ask this question because on the one hand you quote some passages and claim they fit into Islamic / Koranic perception. On the  other hand you quote some other passages and claim they are not to be accepted.[/Quote]He has proven to you by the above that you have truth and lie together in the Bible. You wanna know the truth real the Quran, and why are you omoimole and you are a keferi? You opted out of Islam, leave Imole out of your name and say you are purely Keferi.



[Quote]Secondly, how come the Koran says Ishmael was the one Abraham tried to sacrifice to God? The Bible says it was Issac. How come the Koran says Mary gave birth to Jesus alone, unassisted, under some tree (?palm/date), brought the baby back home and the baby began to talk same day? The Bible says Jesus was born in a manger in Bethelehem. Joseph, the husband of Mary, was there at least. [/Quote]Mary was married and remained virgin?Omoimole,you will let a virgin last 2 hours still a virgin, when everyone is gone? How many children Mary had for old man Joseph, except none?



[Quote]How come Mohammed himself was not sure of aljana? Why must men including devout moslems first go to hell before Allah decides who comes out?,  (you can forgive my ignorance).[/Quote]Your ignorance is forgiven, am sure LagosShia will concur with me. This hadith here, though i posted it above, but you deserve your own because it made it clear to you and we have tons and tons of verses talking about Aljana by your writing for believers, and Hell for disbelievers. If you know any verse of the Quran or hadith that says Muslims without any question will enter hell, before Aljana,please bring it forward. Whats amazing is that disbelievers do not pay attention to the fact that Quran states that they will end up in hell; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394:  Narrated Abu Huraira:  When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews).  The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me."  The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question.  Will you tell the truth?"  They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?"  They replied, "So-and-so."  He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so."  They said,  "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?"  They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father."  On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?"  They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it!  By Allah, we shall never replace you in it."  Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?"  They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim."  He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?"  They said, "Yes."  He asked, "What made you do so?"  They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."



[Quote]Is it true that Mohammed married a juvenile?[/QUote]It is false. If you know a juvenile that he (AS)  married (RA), give me her name and her birth date relative to the advent of his prophethood. This way, you can establish a time line from which we can argue upon.



[Quote]Mohammed, Islam and the Koran appeared 600 years after Jesus had finished His earthly ministry. The Old Testament was already in existence 400 years before Christ physically appeared on the world scene painstakingly preserved by the Jews and Jesus quoted from there. The events recorded in it were relatively near the times of their writings. Suddenly, the Koran appeared centuries after and Ishmael replaced Issac. Jesus was no longer born in a manger. It is apparent that both the Bible and the Koran, Christianity and Islam can not both be right and be from One Source. [/Quote]The bold is correct. Jesus himself criticized the Jews not following the old testament. He did not quote the whole testament and actually declared that the pen of the scribes have written what is not true, as to indicate corruption in the OT, the reason he was redirecting them to truth. You have already by your 400 years defended the Quran. Jesus did not speak about the place he was born, nor did he speak about the sons of Abraham and which one of them was to be slaughtered. By the way, Jews used to make Hajj according to the calling of Abraham. please research it, and if you fail to get any information on it, there is a cartoon posted on a thread here on Nairaland, by a christian which supports my statement. Now why would the Jews make Hajj and slaughter animals in Makka? Why do the Muslims, in all honesty continue to do it without breaking the tradition on one hand claiming that Jesus was born without a father, saying his mother Mary is the best of all women, and on the other hand saying that Ismail (AS) is the son of Slaughter, and not Isiaqa (AS)? Which is a more honorable of the two statement to give to your tribe, and you gave it to a woman from a tribe that hated your people? This shows that he was made to say it, and same with Ismail over Isiaq. Its amazing how Jews have a holiday for the McCabee family over Syrian, yet an event this great is ignored if it has been Isiaq, which proves it was not Isiaq at all, since Jews never saw a holiday that they didnt latch on to.



[Quote]Finally, I thought Christians and Jews 'own' the Bible. Shouldn't they be the ones to tell you what the Bibles says? How come you are the ones to explain their book to them?[/QUote]But we can all read. Did brother LagosShia say something that was not in the Bible, already? How is Jesus like Moses, apart from the fact that they were both males and from the blood lines of Isaac and Jacob? What Muhammad had in common with Moses are each that Jesus does not have in common with him, except the tribe thing. And many Messengers and Prophets were not Jews or from the blood lines of Isaac and his son Jacob. Think about it.



[Quote]If you dont respond to any of these, pls respond to the first querry. May God open our eyes more clearly. Amen. (after, let us talk about what Mohammed promised moslems and what Jesus promised christians) Thank you[/Quote]Jesus promised nothing to the Christians. The Christians borrowed his name for a religion that he knew nothing about and did not sanction. The only thing you did that is correct is invoke God Who Alone is Capable of directing all affairs.

@Seyibrown: « #27 on: Today at 05:35:17 PM »
[Quote]Quote
it obvious you dont know the meaning of the words you use."pretend ignorance"?

An example of 'pretend ignorance' is when Sweetnecta asks 'How does the Holy Spirit (God's spirit)that does not have a voice speak?' and 'How does the Holy Ghost write a book?' but he will swear on the Quran that Mohammed received the teachings in the Quran from God! How exactly did he receive it from God? God gave him the book?[/Quote]So are you saying the Means of which Muhammad ibn Abdallah (AS) received almost all the Quran is your "Holy Spirit"? If you are saying that, then name that "Holy Spirit", since I know the name of the means, the bringer (AS) of the Quran to Muhammad (AS) from Allah (SWT), except the last 4 verses of Surah Baqarah received directly from Allah on the occasion of Isra wa Miraj? You are the one who is ignorant and actually thinking you are smart; meaning in my book "Pretend Ignorance" for ignoring the truth and clinging to lies.



[Quote]Another example is when Sweetnecta tells me that 'Jesus did not die but went to Kashmir to live and died there'; and then tells me again that Jesus did not die at all but he will die and be buried at the judgement.[/Quote]Please show me where I have said the bold. If there is anything I disagree with, the bold is it. But since you said it is my words, please print in with my name as soon as possible.



[Quote]Another example is that he quotes Bukhari to support many of his Islamic beliefs but when I say Bukhari's writings say that Mohammed slept with Aisha when she was 9 years old, He then tells me that Bukhari is deranged! Grin LOL![/Quote]While I never said Bukhari is deranged, it is your dubious statement alone. If I am able to resist myself from running after women that am not married to, regardless of their marriage status, did you think it was a quality developed by my yorubaness, or my nigerianness, or by my being a male in the mist of shapely single ready to drop their "you know what" in this cold swell, except this quality I pick up from Muhammad (AS)?Are you for real or you are just in your pretension, again? Your christian males, your husband's friend or not are salivating like Pavlov dog and will take the first chance if they have it, while a muslim will fear Allah, and revert as well to the quality of Muhammad and fight the "offering". I answered your question, and I hope you are shrewd enough to know that?



[Quote]He even tries to justify why Mohammed sleeps with his son's wife. Sweetnecta will not sleep with a 9 year old but will gladly give his 9 year old daughter to a 52 year old to have carnal knowledge of her. He is 'conservative muslim' but it is okay to diss the Trinity and Xtianity but when I point out true things about Mohammed and Islam he threatens that his brothers will start a war![/Quote]Typical christian gimmick. Please post where the bold was said by me. You are batting 0 for 2 now. Another strike, you are out. If I were to have a 9 year old daughter who is ready to have sex, and she is interested in a 52 year old man, I will give her to him, since thats what she wants, rather than making her lady as well as the tramp. While I have explained many times, I have also asked that you tell me if Aisha was under age in the 15th year of Islam,by telling me when she was born, with evidence relative to her father, Abu Bakr (RA) accepting Islam. Thats a good frame of reference. Hope you will take me on, on this.



[Quote]He believes that Jesus is a servant because Jesus said so but refuses to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus is God despite that Jesus said it![/Quote]If all of these, 2 completely opposing views came from the mouth of Jesus, we will have to ask why, especially when he didnt say "my partner, or my father", but my God instead? Somebody is lying, or some people have lied on Jesus with two opposing views, the reason we know there is corruption in your Bible, since God didnt reveal it, anyway, but revealed Torah to Moses, Sabur to David, And Injil to Isa bin Maryam, people who lived centuries apart. Now who did He reveal Bible since these people never lived to overlap one another's time?



[Quote]He tells me that Jesus (who died and ressurected) did not have power to save himself but then forgot to tell me that Mohammed suffered for 3 years after being poisoned by one of his s-e-x slaves.[/QUote]And Jesus said, "of my own power, I can do nothing". And in case of Muhammad, you lied, again, making it 3 times in a row.Here is the hadith and tell me where you found her to be a "S-e-x slave", except that you are a joke; From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."



[Quote]I explained to him that 'church' as reffered to in the new testament means 'congregation' and he is asking me to tell him where in the OT a jew used a church. He refuses all manner of the impartation of truth![/Quote]Since Jesus is a Jew and knows about Temple, tell me how the lying writers of the Bible derived Church from the word Temple? I think my questions are too complex for you. Will the Jews build a "church" instead of Temple in their effort to destroy Masjid Aqsa, and The Dome of the Rock? Your arguments are laughable, at best.



[QUote]I could just go on and on! Grin
Your list of what you reject on the basis of your religion points out that your religion is a manifestation of the spirit of the anti-christ.[/Quote]And Jesus said of the "Another Comforter, which is "holy spirit" sent by God", he shall correct people, since you are saying that by inferenceyou are part of the generation that he will work on. But he must hear and repeat and directed by God Himself. Does God Spirit need authority from God to work, or those who are messengers of God are the ones that need His Authority? If you are among the generation, then Muhammad ibn Abdallah (AS) through the Quran which is revealed to him, and the hadith and sunnah by which he gave explanation and practical living of the Quran, has stated without any doubt that God is Ahad (One, Indivisible), and any association with Him leads to hellfire. Read the 10 Commandments of Moses to see something similar.

@Olaadegbu: You are a two faced man. You have no honor in my sight. God has taken honor away from you. Why? You were a major contributor to the lies of Tonye-T in his Thread about Muhammad ibn Abdullah (AS) teaching Muslims by hadiths of the evil ways of Shaytan.

You have the gul, you spineless wimp, to start a thread about Satan and his "Scheme". You area typical "TYPICAL". If there is a liar, your image is enough to demonstrate it.

You see how Allah Supports His Messenger (AS), by making your heart author what you said here, and for me to wonder into it? Allah is Akbar. People like you deserve humiliation on that Day, when everyone is alone with his/her belief.

@Op: Remove the apostrophe before the "S" in the Yoruba's. People will see you as the father of that "Illiteracy". Yorusbas is correct, while Yoruba's is completely wrong in your intended message. I am on your side on this one. The yorubas should have all gotten Ph. Ds, D. Scs. They should have been head and shoulders ahead of every group, with all the opportunities of Universal Free Primary Educaton of that dubious Awolowo.

The fact that the Yorubas malaised this opportunity, that others have been able to catch up and even affirmed their surpassing them, is a testimony to their being illiterate.

As to Jesus issue, it is the Bible that misspeak in many issues; The divinity of Jesus and his being in or was in hell are just two obvious examples.

@Seyibrown: [Quote]Sweetnecta, 'church' as referred to means 'congregation', not a physical building. The 'church' is the 'people', not the building.[/Quote]Building or CONGREGATION, tell me how a Jew use CHURCH for either. Show me, from OT and transfer it to Aramaic speaking Jesus. Show us Church in Aramaic.

You just dont get it it.

^^^When you lie on him, you have became an anti christ. Your not telling the truth, is a quality of anti christ. Jesus said he is a servant sent. You call him God Who sent him. Thats an open and direct lie. Thats the quality of anti christ.

This is similar to when Almuhandis was pretending that he was your husband. He lied in that statement. You lie in the statement by which you call Jesus not servant but God Almighty.