₦airaland Forum

^^^ I dont know what you are on.
But it is a bad quality in you if:
you re not a muslim, yet dress up like a muslim.
That is deceit. You need to go and remove the Islamic head covering you have on in your picture.
You should uncover your head, as it should be uncovered.

if you are a muslim, then you are one of the most ignorant muslims on earth.
islam does not need you and it will be a relieve if the wheat is known clearly from the useless shaft.

@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 12:08pm On Aug 19

plaetton: I
[color=#006600]Since most Most Jews , agnostics and atheists do not identify the god of Jesus with the hebrew god , Yahweh, I would like to know whether modern day christians, have, within themselves, wondered as well whether the new testament and old testament gods are one and the same.


Jews can be either agnostic or atheist , so not sure why you grouped an entire ethnicity into the 'gang' of atheists and agnostics.

Besides, those Jews that practise Judaism do not worship Yahweh, they worship what they know not. Having rejected Christ they have forfeited the only path to their reconciliation with Yahweh.

Finally , there are countless Jews , numbering into the tens of thousands who worship Yahweh through Christ.

examples www.jewsforjesus.org/

So next time, please distinguish between atheist Jews, agnostic Jews, Judaic Jews and Christian Jews.

frobel, i love the bold. this is also the case with christians, now. considering that Jesus said that his God is Ellah which you will see in HALLEuyah/HALLEluyah, it is not Yahweh or Jehovah but Allah as in yahAllah/yahAllahu.

God is direct and there is no need to worship Him through anyone, except worshiping by imitating or copying the messenger/prophet of your time. This is the reason you wash up, physically clear your body and symbolically prepare your heart specially for the service before you start.

The period for which Jesus was the one to follow ended when Muhammad [sa] mission reached your hearing/ears. You do not have any excuse to deny Muhammad [sa]. The Jews could not have an irrefutable excuse to deny Jesus [as] during his time, except that they were mostly arrogant and ignorant in disbelieving. The same way Pharaoh could not have an excuse to deny Moses [as] except in the combination of arrogance and ignorance led him.

Each of you is a denier, cover[er] of truth. While Pharaoh's case is decided already, the good news for you is that you are alive so are the other non muslims to mend your belief before your Book is completed and closed.

@truthislight:

by truthislight: 8:57pm
calling black white and white black.

crooket at heart.

What are you talking about? Please explain.

If your prophet did not know better how will you?

All my nigerian friends who are not muslims have girlfriends. No muslim I know has a girlfriend. I guess Muhammad [sa] ha trained us well. I dont have a girlfriend like the rest of the muslims.

You are saying that two wrongs are equal to a right.

You are also twisted cus you also live the low life.

explain the bold. Unless you are also lying as you lied upon the messenger [sa]. And I have no problem with you continuing your lies.

Do you think that all person are like you and your prophet?

It is Muhammad [sa] by his Lord that I have not performed fraudulent act because fraud and nigeria are two beans in a pod. So how am I a bad person when Muhammad [sa] has improved me?

If christians make mistakes that then makes your rot standards good and right how silly a rationale!

I run by private life based on Islam so much so that I do not get involve in interest based business. So tell me how "rot standards good and right how silly a rationale" i am? I think i am reading you well.

Do you imagine that God is as low as you?
Whose standard of justice is as twisted as your?

Remember it is you and your kind that started the thread to badmouth Muhammad [sa]. I just responded, pointing to you how reality is in Nigeria and among Nigerians since this is a "nigerian site" you said.

O, you think you can also intimidate almighty God with terror.

Ok, God will be afraid of you guys and your killing.

In fact, this is insanity.

This explained why you guys cant open you Intimate koran for all to read cus it will be see by all to be a mess.

unless you are in a jungle, the below is a site from which you can read Quran in english: http://quran.com/

@Cleverly: pick up the Quran in English and you will discover a world of great spiritual and intellectual difference. Happy reading leading to greater awareness. The path of success awaits you.

tiarabubu, yesterday i was watching a jewish man say that the history of the jews started from Abraham while the history of the Muslims started from Muhammad [sa]. But I couldnt respond to him because he had disabled the ability to respond. The below would have been my response:

If you wanna compare the ethic jews to the ethic muslims, I will say you forgot that Abraham was the father of Ishmael for 13 years before Isaac was born as a second son to Abraham. So since the ethnic arab muslims under Muhammad [sa] were from Ishmael, then the story of the arabs is 13 years older than the story of jews who were from Isaac. This means that Ishmael must have 13 years right on Jerusalem, indeed palestine and hebrew and canaan over Isaac.

If we are to talk about jews in term of religion, versus Islam, then we need to know that islam started with Adam and continues with every believer, including Abraham who was neither a jew nor a christian, but a believer, a muslim. So were Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob the father of the children of israel, Joseph and his brothers, even Moses and Aaron. Did you read the word "jew" to describe tribe or religion of yesterday man "Moses"?


Either way, in religion and in ethnicity, Muhammad [sa] was the last prophet of a religion that Adam belonged to and ethnicity that is 13 years earlier than any jew you can remotely mention. Jew: the first jews at the earliest were the children of Jacob. Can Jacob be a jew? Can his father Isaac be a jew? Can his grandfather Abraham be a jew, taking for himself the name of his grandson's son? Impossible.

But such a lie saying Jews have rights over Jerusalem while the muslim arabs and palestinians dont is the biggest cooked up lies that an ethic group had put forward and the whole world have been silenced to submission. WHY? Jesus factor or some crazy holocaust guilt. Why not go get the germans instead of bullying the palestinians?

@~Royal~:

by ~Royal~: 10:11pm

truthislight: ^^^^

guy, does it take extra long post to defend Muhamed?

You guys are not using you full mental capacity then,

that is why you just copy and pest.

This is sickening.


..!!Rotflmmfaoooo!!..

for a woman who wears headscarf covering her neck, etc, you must be a hypocrite if you are not a muslim, and if you are a muslim, you must be ignorant of your religion since you can rotflmmfaoooo when people of the book are lying on Muhammad[sa]


@Val_dee:

by val_dee: 10:19pm
Is this thread about Muhamed or Solomon and David?

The moslems instead of defending or throwing more light on the issue are busy discussing about kings in the Bible.

The thread is about Muhammad [sa]. And my yoruba language we have a saying that goes like this "oun to jo oun la fi nwe oun. aran ope o jo alabawun" [it is what is similar that we make comparison. The pattern on the palm tree does not resemble the shell of the turtle.

that being said, David [Daud} and Solomon {Sulaiman] [as] were muslim prophets and you will read their stories in the Quran. They were also married, just like the chairman of prophets, Muhammad bin Abdallah [sa].

I need not compare Jesus son of Mary [Isa bin Maryam] [as] though a muslim prophet, but he was not married and I can not take marriage examples from him whereas I can of fasting, and other form of worship from him. All in all, in every case, it is Muhammad [sa] who made me recognized each of these noble persons.

Yes. The thread is about Muhammad [sa] and the lies you people are spewing on him. And I and other nigerian, specifically the Yoruba muslims aught to challenge you every step of the way.

See. I did not talk about Paul from the Bible because he means nothing to me and he is not worthy of consideration of who to admire.

^^^^Short statement: the christians lied because the copied weak or fabricated hadith.

@Vicky0:

by vickyO(f): 7:20pm
David, Solomon and co were not prophets, they were just Bible characters so they should not be used as examples. Most of the prophets in the Bible were not married and were never involved in the act of womanizing. Fingers should not be pointed at the Bible cause no prophet was a womanizer.

if David, and Solomon and co [Abraham, Jacob] were not prophets, who were the prophets that prophet Jesus said he came to abolish them and the laws?

Please list the prophets since all of these were just Bible characters and can never be your examples. The non example man was the man whose Psalm you use to cover yourself from evil instead of either Yahweh or New Testament of Jesus.

You people never let us forget that Jesus was from the house of David and the Temple of Solomon is the single most important structure to the jews who are the owners of your salvation. I guess they were no prophet, just mere characters.

Again, list the prophets because this muslim just called your bluff.

the poster is the other exaggerated fallacy about Jesus, similar to what the christians stand on. two fallacies dont make either right. even 3 fallacies, adding the denial of the jews, whereas the truth is somewhere else, the reality that Islam presents.

while abouzaid is pretending that he is having a discussion, any person can come up with a statement to malign anyone. The maligning of Muhammad [sa] is something that we in Islam sometimes need to respond to.

Again, anyone who was born before the end of nigerian civil war could not be 30 years old, the same way that Aisha [ra] who was born before start of revelation could not be 9 at the beginning of hijra.

@~royal~;

by ~Royal~: 4:54pm
This guy and these Long Giant Post...He is ruining the Thread...LoL I am about to unfollow this shid man.

These Mega Irrelevant Post. grin The Guy's Insane.

i dont think anyone is insane here. evidently you are not muslim.

@Area_boy:

by Area_boy(m): 11:44pm On Aug 18

Sweetnecta: in today's new hampshire, usa, the girl can be married at 13 if her parent agrees. boy at 14.

this is usa in 2012, the leader of the free world.

challenge that morality and let the smart bomb burst you open.

the jews still consider 13 the age of maturity.

there's 4 years between 13 and 9. undecided

so a 60 year old husband or wife marrying an 18 year old wife or husband respectively will be guilty because of the age of the young spouse, just what you have accused Muhammad [as] by; the age difference, while a 14 year old husband or wife can be legal with 15 years old wife or husband respectively? But wait, can you research when Aisha [ra] was born, relative to the beginning of prophet-hood and her father's acceptance of Islam? Then we shall talk more and see if Aisha [ra] was really 9. I may be just 20 myself right now.


@truthislight:

by truthislight: 12:05am

Sweetnecta: in today's new hampshire, usa, the girl can be married at 13 if her parent agrees. boy at 14.

this is usa in 2012, the leader of the free world.

challenge that morality and let the smart bomb burst you open.

the jews still consider 13 the age of maturity.


NL is a nigerian website.
The age of consent for marriage is 18.

lol. and you have to peg nigeria as the moral standard? the biggest crooks are in the government, federal and state, in the business both private and public, in the community so much so 419 is a worldwide slang, mugu, maga, yahoo yahoo, i had to learn and being a nigerian abroad even at my age i am painted the same color as people back home until people know me. Just this month, in my own business a darn dutch caribbean islander called me a fake and fraud be my possible nigerian blood. I am preparing to seek a redress from his country's courts. nigerian men have no morals on se.x. they sleep with anyone under their authority so that she gets ahead. the banks are a house of whoring and you are talking against Muhammad [sa] my hero through his example i dont jump each woman i come across. You must be fast asleep when you typed the above.

If you are below your guardian have to authorise the marriage with a written document.

A 12/13 years old girl can menstruate at least and is getting ready for woman hood, though child bearing can affect her system that is not fully developed, and is prone to a lot of possible complication.

you lack knowledge of womanhood. go ask those people with knowledge. you must know some adult women and Aisha [ra] was not raised on formula. so when she was seeing her monthly, she was a full woman.

If people that dont have the fear of God and knowledge of god and are suppose to learn from muhamad wish to engage in this are you saying it is justification for him to be like them?

i have read enough on nl how men and women are jumping the bones of one another. each one of these bad actors are christians. did they learn it from Muhammad [sa] or from their christian leader? Look at your pastors in nigeria changing wives and husbands so much so one just called his recent ex, Jezebel.

I thought he is suppose to invite them for a higher calling?

He is suppose to be the moral example that should affect people positively.

Is he affecting people negatively cus moslem are still marrying 9yrs old kid.

Do you think he is a good moral example to imitate?

The best to imitate because if i arrive nigeria today and i do not refrain myself by islam, guess how many women could be in my parlor? Same here in the west the freaks and prosti.tutes of nigeria are almost always the cross wearers and they are not muslims.


@truthislight:

by Kay 17: 12:14am
Age of marriage in Nigeria is not 18. I think 10.

A God of such times will definitely promote morality of that time.

(Quote) (Report) (Like)
Re: Is This True About Muhammad? by truthislight: 12:36am

Kay 17: Age of marriage in Nigeria is not 18. I think 10.

A God of such times will definitely promote morality of that time.


west of time.

Next!

how did kay waste anytime in what he gave you?


@gent paris:

by gent paris: 7:30am
If indeed he was a real prophet should have known better than to set an example of molesting underage girls to follow. Please don’t say it
was not Molestation because a 9-year-old child is
not mature enough to consent and if she
cannot consent it is Molestation. NEXT angry

No man molest his wife who he did not rap.e.


@speeder:

by speeder(m): 1:31pm
No need for long talk.
Now i understand, Muhammad slept with a 9 yrs old gel which he thought right but we call it molestation. As a prophet he should have known better.
An innocent girl who haven't known what sex is, ur prophet slept with. At first I couldn't believe the story, but now I know better. Perhaps, d Muslims may have a better understanding we don't have. Christians, just leave them alone

your wife is not an innocent girl who haven't known what se.x is. sex is part of marriage unless your dont think a married woman is prepared to have se.x?

I will not bother to respond to te thread starter on his article from Ali Sina or Daniel Pipes.

@The Op:

by The OP(m): 9:36pm On Aug 17
Yah, You are right however solomon was a better womanizer with 700 wifes, and You will agree he was blessed.

a womanizer is a man who cant do without a woman. Muhammad [sa] proved that he was by waiting as long as he waited to marry after the death of his one and only wife lady Khadijah [ra].


@abouzaid:

by abouzaid: 10:43pm On Aug 17
Glad to see this thread again, @op, solomon did not dictate a maximum of 4 wives for his religious followers while he takes as many as 13, solomon lived what he preached while mohammed lived against what he preached. Also king solomon's lust for women is what made him to abandon God leading to God punishing him and his generations yet unborn by dividing israel into two kingdoms. His family only ruled two tribes cos of God's love for his father while another family ruled the remaining ten kingdoms. Honestly u can't call that a blessing for being a womanizer.

if God didnt like Solomon, why making him the wisest of all biblical personages? Why allowing his book to be included in the Bible? And as to David, remember that you people say that he was a killed and a wife snatcher? What kind of God is inconsistent? The temple you and the jews are waiting for was built by this hated Solomon. Alhamdulillah that the muslims have a mosque on it showing that God loves the muslims, even as you suffer us and think we are no good, you darn evil doer!

And Muhammad [sa] followed the order of God on him, including marry more than 4 wives because Allah says in Surah Ahzab 33 ayah 50 to 52 as shown here:

33;50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

33:51 You, [O Muhammad], may put aside whom you will of them or take to yourself whom you will. And any that you desire of those [wives] from whom you had [temporarily] separated - there is no blame upon you [in returning her]. That is more suitable that they should be content and not grieve and that they should be satisfied with what you have given them - all of them. And Allah knows what is in your hearts. And ever is Allah Knowing and Forbearing.

33:52 Not lawful to you, [O Muhammad], are [any additional] women after [this], nor [is it] for you to exchange them for [other] wives, even if their beauty were to please you, except what your right hand possesses. And ever is Allah , over all things, an Observer.

i have provided by the Permission of Allah on me the Mercy of Allah on Muhammad [sa] and the muslims [ra] the allowances of Muhammad marrying more than what is allowed for the muslims, so that Muhammad can have alliances and allegiances with families and tribes and clans in order to strengthen the muslims, the mercy on the wives so that the whole muslim community showers praises and prayers on them till the end of time [ra to each of them], the limit put on the messenger [sa] so that there is a balance and women dont just throw themselves at him wanting to be included in the house of the messenger whereby even leaving their husbands to be undue bachelors, unfairly. We see that Muslims can have wives till they die while the messenger was restricted to to have anymore, even if there were other needs arising later.


@chibooks:

by CHIBOOKS: 11:49pm On Aug 17
Solomon was never a Religious leader and definitely neither a Religious nor a moral model to emulate, but merely a political leader prone and exposed to all power and lustful desires and abuse.

Since the book of pharaoh or goliath, etc are not in the Bible why have the book of Solomon? I guess you dont need the moral wisdom of Solomn?

On the other hand Mohammad was supposed to be a model to follow in all spheres of lives - moraaly, politically and otherwise. It is therefore a disappointment when such a supposed model is seen lacking these vitues, and putting the fault on "Allah's revelations" If due comparison could be made of a parrelel model, one should look at the life of JESUS.

what Muhammad [sa] lacks is his having a legal marriage with a young wife and Jesus who was a confirmed bachelor has this moral compass? I wonder how you people dont emulate Jesus instead of Muhammad [sa] wherein your men marry younger wives and your women look for older men for husband?


@Truthislight:

by truthislight: 8:33am On Aug 18
D P

by truthislight: 8:38am On Aug 18
Now i know more reason why sexually unrestrained people rush to this safe sex haven.

Satan woshipers also indulged in unrestrained intimate excaped.

in all the world over christians are by and large the largest portion of people who engage in illicit se.x: brothels, bath houses, orgy joints, red light districts and the nigerian prostitutes overseas are largely christians.


@Evil brain:

by Evil Brain(m): 10:32am On Aug 18

poj: All i will say is that god will forgive you.


How come you're not trying to defend your faith? What's your explanation for Mohammed's behaviour? Is it that the scriptures are wrong and he didn't really do any of those things? Or is it that he isn't held to the same standard as other followers of allah?

Could a Muslim please comment on this?

No insults please.

read the Quran. and i have responded, above.



@crazyman:

by CrazyMan(m): 11:23am On Aug 18

Evil Brain:
How come you're not trying to defend your faith? What's your explanation for Mohammed's behaviour? Is it that the scriptures are wrong and he didn't really do any of those things? Or is it that he isn't held to the same standard as other followers of allah?

Could a Muslim please comment on this?

No insults please.

What do you want them to say?

Their god married a 9year old girl. I now see why the fulani herdsmen and his other misguided followers r*ape infant girls randomly.

Its obvious they're walking in the footsteps of their master.

the actions of the fulani herdsmen are on the fulani herdsmen and not on Islam. And Muhammad [sa] is not God or god to any single muslim. And i have responded to the 9 years old allegation. Anyone who was alive during the nigerian civil war could not be under 40 years old, in the same way that Aisha [ra] could not be 9 years old at year 2 of hijr when she was alive before the start of the 13 years spent in Makka prior to coming to Yathrib, Madina.


@truthislight:

by truthislight: 1:58pm On Aug 18

eghosaobas: this post should be in islam forum


what do we call this?

That the moderator should come to your rescue?

Can the mod desend so low?

You should really be ashamed of yourself.

Randy Dads.

When you see your 9yrs old daughter you get arouse.

the thread is good where it is. You should not accuse unless you can prove it. Read my posts.

@truthis light:

by truthislight: 5:26pm On Aug 18

LagosShia:


https://www.nairaland.com/1022273/true-muhammad#11855742


come guy

stop insulting our intelligence,
if you dont have any thing to explain on this thread better stay off.

Better feed that CRAP to those you usually feed them to.

What direction was that?

Thread that is full of links upon links.

If not for this era will we have said anything is wrong with that violent guy?

how violent is a man who defends his people as they are attacked and never attacked an innocent or non combatant? You ave no shame.

That is why you guys will leave the koran in a dead language and intimidate and kill any that attempts to touch it so that people will follow you as blind men.

blind faith belongs to you and Arabic is a UN Language. Is your language in nigeria recognized or hebrew recognized or latin recognized or greek recognized?

Ofcouse, with this, it is obvious that you guys really have alot to hide by leaving the koran in a dead language, if you translate it it will be plain rubbish

if i translate any material it will be watered down rubbish as you call it; the reason i find the bible so.

What kind of conversion is islam trying to get people to follow them without being able to read the koran except through some bearded fellow?

bearded fellow is man, while no bearded fellow is a woman. And no one wants you in monotheistic religion if your 3 gods are good for you. its not by force.

And you come hear posting links, do we look link dunes?

Is your name synonimouse with stupidity?
If it is, i have noted it.

Dont you guys still marry 6/9 yrs old kids till date?
What are you trying to defend?

maybe you need to see what christian villagers and even town and city-sleeker do in south south.

May your 9yrs old daughter marry a fifty (50) year old man, if you dont you stand cursed by this defence of rubbish and lies.

Amin, if that will prevent her from being the test run of both young and grown men of the community.

Some people just hate dishonesty and like deceit cus it suit their filth.

hates dishonesty and lie deceit? scratch beard and wonder if this dude is not in need of attention/care.

If that book you follow is any thing from a wise god translate it and let every one read it and see the substance it is made of.
Ofcouse you will not cus you know it will not withstand scrutiny.

There is Quran in Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa and English. If you can read any of these languages, google Quran.com and you may just find the english of what Quran may mean. I hope you dont live in the deep forest where there is no google capability?

Should not the word of God be made available to all of mankind to read and be wise and come to know him in all possible languages?

Randy men covering children with long cloths and locking children inside houses and calling them wives.

those muslim wives in england and usa and others are locked up in the street 'house' since we can see them in plain sight.

That is why you cant let others see what you have as wives

here is your problem: eyes candy. You want to feed your eyes.

cus they are 6/9 years old kids. Rot. Animalistic.

Where virtue is standing you dire bring your head.

By there fruit you will know them.

and the fruit that indulge in adultery and fornication belong to the tree of adultery and fornication. My wife is younger than me. Alhamdulillah. She is a grown woman. I guess i copied Muhammad [sa]. Please copy in marriage whoever you say you follow.


@abouzaid

by abouzaid: 9:07pm On Aug 18
LagosShia, i'm still waiting for u to defend ur religion, tell us if the hadith and quran are lying, that op post used the most reliable books of islam, for u 2 deny them would be to deny the very foundation of islam itself. I live in the north, and i know that an average muslim don't know anything in their holy books.

hadith may lie because it is fabricated by enemy of Islam pretending to be a muslim. However, Quran is true and you will have to show me from the Quran the age of Aisha [ra] as either 6 or 9 or prepubescence. if you cant then you have to accept what Lagosshia said or you are the lying enemy of Islam.

@truthisllight:

by truthislight: 12:26am

tintingz: hehehehehe fustrated fella...do you read my post at all or you just read few?...those are some rebuttals of muslim scholars of what the nut-brain op posted... Kindly visit http://answering-christianity.com


is the op NUT brain? huh

What a good defence are you?

If you say the op that directly quoted from your book is a nut brain do you know the implications?

Is that why the koran is in a dead language?

Arabic is one of the languages of the UN. How is it dead? Which nigerian language is alive if Arabic is dead? And hadith is false if not in accordance with the Quran. Hadith is weak even if it is in agreement with the Quran and the narrators cant possibly have heard it from the messenger [sa]. Hadith is strong if many chains narrated it, and evidence shows that the primary narrators may have heard it and it of course have to agree with the Quran.


@abouzaid;

by abouzaid: 6:17am
@tintingz, 1) u have accepted that mohammed molested a 6yrs old girl, have 13 wives among others 2) the attack u and ur mates are trying to make are laughable, all ur attacks are on jewish old testament bible prophets, if u mohammedans (followers of prophet mohammed) want to attack or make comparisons with we christians(followers of jesus christ), then compare mohammed to jesus christ, besides ur attacks on the jewish old testament prophets are lame, all the ppl u have called on this thread were punished severely for their sins. Solomon,david etc were all punished. I would advice u to start reading an english translation of the quran to see how messed up that book is, i will also advice u to read the holy bible to know the truth and be set free. Bless u my brother

how does a husband molest his wife? Even nigerian husband who wrestled his wife to submission and get se.x from the poor and tired woman you dont see molestation in that? did you read where Aisha [ra] complained about Muhammad [sa], to anyone, her parents, other wives, to God, because complained in the community about their husbands to God and revelations were released to answer them? You are not a follower of Jesus, you darn disbelieving soul because Jesus was a prophet of God, submitting to Him in full submission. How was Abraham, friend of Yahweh, father of faiths [unless you forget these points] was punished while you claim that your faith is accordance to his belief, and his bloodline carries the prophetic messages to all mankind, ending with Muhammad [sa] the only prophet sent to all man, in a single and everlasting binding message?

@Abouzaid:

by abouzaid: 9:35am
^^ my friend the age of aisha was given in the hadith and was quoted by the op, also no other age was given in hadith or sira, see the op article, my friend the old prophets were severely punished for their sins, ur sounding ignorant. Leading religious leaders have never doubted aisha age and is on based in issuing a fatwa by iran supreme ruler ayotala khomeni who himself is married to a 12yrs old girl. I will also post the fatwa later today. It specifically said that mohammed did thighing with aisha by rubbing his pen is on her tigh to gain intimate pleasure. The reason being that she is was too small. Dude check ur posts, u have posted about 3 different age ranges for aisha, ur sounding delusional. Tell me any other place in the hadith another age was given. Sannu ka dai. Yaya jin dadi? Ekwu

I know there was no good in your Abouzaid, only fronting to be a muslim! The hypocrites like you are also in Islam who would turn reality over its head.
How do we know that Aisha was not a 6 or 9 year old when she was married? Quran gave the age and maturity of who to be married. Read Surah Nisaa[4, Ayah 6

And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.

If anyone was to be the one the verse will be alive upon, it would be Muhammad [sa]. Then from the hadith and sira, in particular we read that Abu Bakr [ra] the father of Aisha [ra] gave her into engagement to be married to a suitor who was not Muhammad [sa]. Abu Bakr and his household entered Islam in the first year, being already a neighbor and friend of the prophet, we cant dispute this. At the same time as he was entering Islam, he divorce the mother of Aisha for refusing to enter Islam. If Aisha was already engaged to be married, she must have to be alive because the only way to know the sex of a baby then was when the baby was delivered. As the conditions of muslims became dire in Makka, Abu Bakr who was the sole custodian of the little Aisha went to the family that was supposed to marry her and ask them to take her from him so that he can migrate to Ethiopia. It was at this tie the family said they dissolved the engagement, though the future husband was reported to be a muslim.


One will notice that it is the custom of the arabs for the father to take the child if the child is independent enough to not need mom as an infant would. Since Abu Bakr did not return her to his ex wife, we will have to say for sure that Aisha [ra] based on all of the above was at least 4 when the revelation began. Her only older sister was Asm'aa was 10 years older than her and she was a true teenager at the beginning of revelation.

Now tell me if Aisha [ra] was 6 or 9 at the 15th year of revelation if she was about 4 at the beginning of revelation? Hadith is not infallible the reason we have false, weak and strong hadiths. Anything that is against Quran is definitely not a strong and believable hadith. If it was true that Aisha [ra] was 6 or 9, the companions [ra] would have copied the messenger because Allah says he was the best example; reason that people around the world marry older wives, wives in their age groups and younger wives as long as the reached the marriage age of balagh [Puberty].

Just because some nut-job is saying a woman who reached puberty which is marriage age is 6 or 9, it does not mean that we should not examine it by evidence of every element that will let us know how old is the matured woman is, starting from the events surrounding her young life, upward to date. A person can spin a web to direct you to the wrong destination while you are looking at the correct destination, denying it because you have been dealt the dick cheney magic of repeating lies often about niger republic's yellow cake that it is now the truth in your weak mind.

@vicky0;

by vickyO(f): 10:12am
Jesus was opposed to adultery(Matt. 5:27-28).

heck jesus was not married. maybe the whole christians should subscribed to that, if they are sincere. or are they believers only of the lips and not by hearts and thats why we see their deeds are opposite to that of jesus. there are still crosses to die on or choose wet transformers.
Can a man commit adultery with his wife? Or can a woman commit adultery with her husband? If Aisha [ra] did not commit fornication or adultery, can Muhammad [sa] commit either with her?

David was punished: he did not build the temple,

so was jesus. He didnt rebuild the temple while Solomon with his 700 wives and 300 concubines built the original temple. Heck. the muslims own that plot with masjid Aqsa on it. if the temple is the measure of victory with Yahweh, muslims under the leadership of Muhammad [sa] are the only victorious group.

God rebuked Abraham for his actions(moreover, there were no laws then),Solomon also.

you double talk too much. if there was not law, why blame a person that has not broken any law? But there was law for Adam to follow, even that early? see why i said you double talk? But as you malign Abraham, you are saying your religion is Abrahamaic. No? Not Jesusiac, but Abrahamaic. And Salomon was the wisest of all people in the Bible.

We Christians are now save by the grace of God not by the laws of Moses. we no longer follow most of the laws of Moses.

Jesus observed the laws of Moses, living by it and condemned whoever will encourage any to disregard the least of the laws. here you are now disregarding the laws in actuality disregarding the Biblical Jesus.

Id sayed Mubaracka. Takaballah wa minkun.

If a man is interested in a woman, he should tell her right away and request that she directs him to the Mahram so that he begins the process of formal "process leading to marriage/the nikah".

The messenger [sa] told a Muhajjirin [ra] who was interested in an ansar woman [ra] to go and look at her. Why? because the ansar woman is different from the muhajjirin woman; in many forms, it could be in manners and customs, looks and shape common in ethnic variables.

In the today's marriageable pool of people, the opportunity of seeing and meeting may just one time. If you are looking for a mahram that is not around the bend, what you will come up with is not that woman for a wife. And since good action in this case will be on based on good intention, there is nothing stopping you from seeing your potential wife in the mall of america and ask her "Salaamu al-laykum sis, my name is xyz. give me the details of your mahram because you are my wife in the waiting". That gives her to see who are future husband. if she is game, she will give you the details you have asked her.

if you snooze you lose because the brother who is sharp may just be in the next store and she is gone upon the right man making his intention known.

And our sister should be Khadijah [ra] too. You see what you want, go for it, even as him if he is married and direct him to your mahram, without trying to front unnecessarily.

Islam is constant and the element of constancy is observed as haraam is eliminated. But man should be bold and woman should be eager to give the indication of yea or nea.

in today's new hampshire, usa, the girl can be married at 13 if her parent agrees. boy at 14.

this is usa in 2012, the leader of the free world.

challenge that morality and let the smart bomb burst you open.

the jews still consider 13 the age of maturity.

@Avicenna:

by Avicenna: 3:59pm On Aug 17

okeyxyz:

Hmm, it's funny how you start off with a good, logical argument, then suddenly spoil it with statements such as the bolded, out of some deep seated hatred of people simply because they follow a different philosophy than you. So tell me, who has more tendency to criminality?

Prophets as in prophets that start religion based on supernaturalism. Who deceives people to fleece them for what they have. That's criminal. I have no regret hating such people.

There are some religious leaders that only preach morality. Even if I don't agree with them, I respect their philosophy. Only the thieving ones are the criminals.

Since you are chomping on Muhammad [sa] as your that example of prophet you dislike or disbelieve, tell me if there was no Islam on earth before Muhammad [sa] declared he was a prophet of God to preach Islam? Them who did Muhammad [sa] fleeced? Or you are just angry for no logical reason except that you are spiritually lazy and deceitful and hence calls true prophet of your Creator Who you are denying criminals?

I asked myself a question the other day, just to reaffirm in myself that God does exist; Obviously I was young once, like in the teenage years, then i got older. If there is no God Who has put in my body the mechanism of aging, what exact age would I love to remain forever and why?

Whatever age and my reason, somebody else will have a different age and reason and somebody may just have the same set of age and reason as me. What is for sure though is that some varied answers will emerge among the human population. The God Who has created the smallest details in us, even our finger prints to be different and unique to each person, the snow flakes to be different from one another has made a single set of realities for all of us; we will live and die and He has promised to have a Judgment Day for us where he will not wrong anyone even in His justice.

@Avicenna:

? by Avicenna: 2:41pm On Aug 17
Puzzling eh...

After progress in the diagnosis of mental illnesses(I'm looking at you schizophrenia) and epilepsy, the number of 'prophets' fell before I could say 419......

For instance, Prophet Muhammad went into a cave to meditate, he came out claiming to see an angel. Apparently, he either starved himself enough to hallucinate or suffered from prisoner's light among a variety of stress-induced mental illnesses he could have suffered.....or blatant lie.

Prophets are just imaginative bunch of criminals.

i can see why you continue to be dishonest, here and at home. if you are not suffering from schizophrenia, that is no reason for you to tell at home you are no more a muslim and dont belief in existence of God. we see from your opinion of Muhammad [sa] a man who there is no proof from you against him that all you have done is making baseless remarks and as some other person put it to you because of your deep seeded hatred of other people's set of beliefs you are displaying this epileptic condition; you may not remember that you are making them, your lies are hurting others.

have you told your muslims girlfriend, yet, while your parents may keep you still since they really can disown you, the muslim woman will drop you like a bad habit.

And Muhammad [sa] did not start Islam. He reestablished it as instructed and Allah The God Who you do not believe exist commissioned him and perfect the completed religion which started with Adam [as] on him.

Or you do not know that Islam is submission to the WILL of God to be over your own will?

@Pagan 9ja: the first builder of the Kaaba was Adam [as].
then upon the flood of Noah, and the re-population of the earth, Abraham rebuilt it because
he was commanded to establish his family headed by Hajar his second wife and reestablish the
House of God anew.

if Adam and then Abraham were pagans, I wonder what the people of Noah were as their end was
the watery grave? what about Pharaoh and his legions that met the same ends? God must not like
Pagans because of their paganism and He made them all drowned in these two instances while He
allowed non pagans to live and thrived.

I submit to you that;
satan [lana] is a pagan while Adam [as] is not.
the people who perished in the flood of Noah were pagans while Noah [as] and the survived were not.
Ibrahim [as], his whole household [wives and sonn [as]] were not pagans and hence established on earth.
Pharaoh [lana] who perished in the flood of "exodus" was a pagan while Musa and Harun [as].
the worshipers of the golden calf "yahweh" were pagans while those who did not along with Musa and Harun were not.
makkan pagans were pagans while Muhammad [sa] and his companions [RA] were not.
you are a pagan while I am not.

^^^ poster must be the most ridiculous mind on nairaland, because the muslims of Muhammad [sa] agree that Islam was revived under Muhammad.
The religion has been among man since the first man, Adam [as], a prophet in Islam. So daniel who prostrated did so as muslim who ethnically a jew and God did not ordain judaism or christianity for anyone. the people made up each of the two because of their desire and not THE WILL OF GOD.


And to suggest that a husband with his wife leads to other people molesting young women is a warp opinion of the reality.

most men prefer younger women. A young woman who became a wife, had regular access to her parents and though deemed outspoken never complained to her wealthy and very influential parents that she was mature for the role of wife, instead in life and upon the death of the husband never waiver in her love and good feeling about her husband, can not be compared to the vile acts of child molestation. And it is not a cause for somebody to justify child molestation or child bride idea, since all of the child brides seem to be unhappy with and in their marriages.

To show that Aisha [ra] was ready for marriage and her father knew that was to realize that she was already has been engaged to a man and it was her family entry into Islam in the first year of the prophetic mission that in the end dissolve the engagement and did not allow the marriage to materialize. Abu Bakr [ra] was willing to let her move in with the family of the future husband, which will allow him to migrate to Ethiopia like the others. It was in the occasion of this request that the family said they withdraw their intention.

Did you notice that she must have been alive by the first year of revelation because the engagement was already in place before her father reverted into Islam the first year and as soon as emigration to Ethiopia was open, her father was willing to let her go live with "strangers" instead of letting her pagan mother be her custodian.

It shows that she was grown enough that she was independent of the need of mother and father and will do well still without both and was already a living human being by the first year of revelation. How old does not matter anyhow, even if i peg it at the under 10 years of age, her reality was that she demonstrated maturity and independence at early age that her father knew she was a wife already to the first potential husband and it was the Will Allah to defend Muhammad [sa] from attackers like yourself, Mr. Nimshi what occurred before Muhammad [sa] the later suitor married her.

You should take a chill pill because in Nigeria, you have women ready at unsuspecting young age. A woman was telling me about her shock when she say a young hawker teenager going under their big man security/gate man. There was any noticeable breas.ts n her chest more than a needle she said. and from the loo of it, she was not a first timer on the matter.


every society has her gradation o maturity and america has from 13 or 14 with parental consent to go on to marriage. This is even in 2012

13 for females-14 for males, in New Hampshire.
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageabl…

since its an event in the future, they may or may not get it right.

further, can you check the calender from the same maker for all of the times the muslims have been making the 2 celebrations if the maker always get it right to that we may know that he always knew?

how about the rest of the muslim world that does not now your calender producer? what shall they do, considering that the judiciary council in saudi arabia had to consult and then made their announcement only yesterday?

how about when a single id was celebrated by a segment of the people on a different day that the other segment celebrated it?

you enemies of Islam don't usually think deep enough.

@Avicenna: You will agree that before the presence of the arabs in northern africa, the folks in the african continent were dark skinned, just like you and I.
so you need someone closer to home for you? How about your black brother Pharaoh ruler of Egypt:

“And We made the children of Israel to pass through the sea, then Firon and his hosts followed them for oppression and tyranny; until when drowning overtook him, he said: I believe that there is no god but He in Whom the children of Israel believe and I am of those who submit now! and indeed you disobeyed before and you were of the mischief-makers. But We will this day deliver you with your body that you may be a sign to those after you, and most surely the majority of the people are heedless to Our communications.“ Quran 10 verses 90/93.

Allah promised the body of firon as sign for later generations. today, the body is one of the most viewed if not the most viewed human body on earth.



i couldnt find what exactly was fela's last word, but i found his thought, his idea and it works since we ate talking about soul of man here with "God".

Fela Anikulapo-Kuti

Fela Anikulapo-Kuti, the great Nigerian music star, "died in 1997 of a disease he claimed didn't exist, and certainly not in Africa: AIDS. No matter that Fela's older brother, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, had served as the country's health minister and launched Nigeria's much-lauded early AIDS program. . . . There was hardly an illness African herbs couldn't cure, Fela maintained, and he dismissed condoms as unnatural, unpleasurable, and a white plot to reduce the black birthrate. He believed, says Olikoye, that "all doctors were fabricating AIDS, including myself." Fela was 58.

(Mark Schoofs, "A Tale of Two Brothers Part 2: Fela Didn't Believe AIDS Existed. But then he died of the disease. His brother is still trying to convince Fela's fans that HIV is real." Village Voice, November 10 - 16, 1999.)

I tried to locate last word of tsi sholarin as well without any success.

My idea is looking at this from Islamic perception.

Bride of Christ?


Who? You?


Christ was a man, unmarried and want to be his bride?

Strange.

I guess real man is a dying bride now that you want to be a bride.

Abeg. Don't let hear say you dey bride bride o.
I know the blood of the english has to much sugar.
You be 9ja man o.

^^^^ I am fasting so I will not say that the shame is all yours because Allah is the Creator of Moon, Star, etc.
They are means of adornment of the sky, a sign of Power of Allah.
Moon tells you about the beginning, middle and end of each 12 months of the year.
The star is a means of indicating the direction when on a night journey.

Star is also a missile against the invisible devil.


And sun setting in muddy water is similar to sun rising in the morning and setting when night is approaching..

imagine that you arrive at bank of a muddy water [lake, sea, etc] at sunset.
what will you see except that it will set in that very muddy water just the sun rises in the morning.
actually if you can see the horizon the sun will literally right from the earth in your very eyes.


But does the sun rise, set at all?

@Frosbel:

Re: Is Allah Of Islam The Same As Yahweh Of Christianity? by frosbel(m): 10:23am

Sweetnecta: @Frosbel: You need to be put down ones and for all. How is Allah same with man God Jesus who is a massiah Isa bin Maryam [as]?


Let me answer you with the corrupted bible that your Imams and scholars refer to 24/7 to prove that ISLAM is the valid. grin


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Who was called Immanuel by his mother or his people? Please give me a verse where somebody was called Immanuel so that this verse is fulfilled. Was Jesus called Immanuel? If he was not called Immanuel, then we have to look for our Immanuel as another person or this is a false verse, yet again fro the Bible.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The operative phrase is the bold. Who shouldered any government but kings rulers and prophets. Is Jesus a king and could you tell me where his throne was seated on earth? If he was a president, tell me where was his political seat?
While David and Solomon came after the Isiah verse, they were rulers of the children of Israel and they were prophets like Jesus and John were.
So who is the one among them that is uniquely shouldering a government while the others didnt? Definitely Jesus did not shoulder any government.

How is Allah same with ghost God nameless who is Jibril [malaika] [as]?


Allah is not the same with Yahweh.

Yahweh was tired and needed to be refreshed, while Allah i never weary. Definitely from the Biblical window, Allah is not same as tiring Yahweh.

How is Allah same with father God who gets tired and needs to be refreshed, not full of knowledge as he discovered after events he regretted?


Father was always on the throne, Jesus Christ was the saviour indwelt by the Spirit of the Father and was a man in the flesh yet by his very essence was the Word of God and hence God in the flesh.

Confusing to you but for the born again Christians , easy to grasp.

A sitting God you have. A savior who could not ave himself or be saved by your sitting God. This is worthy of worship?

Frosbel, Allah Rabbi Alamin, Rahman, Rahim, AlHayy, AlQayum, Al Alim, Al Hakim, etc.

Yahweh is GOD and he is not ALLAH.

deceiver frosbel. You want to write English and lost hebrew while Arabic is firmly authentic? Write God in hebrew if you can? Write God in Arabic if you can since you have christian arabs saying their God is Allah? You are a confused soul.

Please stop showing us that you have One God because from your mouth, you dont. You do have 3 Gods, though.

GOD is ONE.

My God is One and His Name is Allah. Your God[s] are 3: One of them is Jesus son of Mary you idolater. The second is no name ghost. And the third you rendered weak and dependent. You call this one Yahweh or Jehovah, while Jesus son of Mary an anointed prophet of God says his God is Ellah similar to Allah in another accent, and not Eli, the son of prophet Samuel.



@The Clown:

by The Clown: 2:37pm
The God of the Old Testament is known as YHWH ()or, when pointed with the correct vowels, Yahweh. This translates as "The Self-Existent One", being derived from the Hebrew háwáh, meaning "to exist". As Allah is the name of God on the Muslim Holy Scriptures, the Koran (or Quran), so Yahweh is the Name of God in the Hebrew Scriptures, the Bible. What is particularly interesting and significant is the fact that Yahweh never appears as the name of of any deity outside the Bible. There is no record anywhere of any other tribe or religion which worshipped Yahweh. The Hebrew Name of God is unique to the Bible and its chosen people. From this alone we may deduce that the Name "Yahweh" was not borrowed from some other culture or religion. It emerged unquely within the Bible revelation.

What did Jesus call his God but Ellah which is similar to the Arabic Allah instead of your baseless Yahweh or Jehovah. Or was Jesus incorrect and you are right? Eli is the son of Prophet Samuel, so God will not have the same name for Himself.

The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god", i.e. the god. We see immediately that (a) this is not a proper name but a generic name rather like the Hebrew El (which as we have seen was used of any deity; and (b) that Allah is not a foreign word (as it would have been if it had been borrowed from the Hebrew Bible) but a purely Arabic one. It would also be wrong to compare "Allah" with the Hebrew or Greek for God (El and Theos, respectively), because "Allah" is purely an Arabic term used exclusively in reference to an Arabic deity.

So give me the "The God" in arabic which the Christian must use n their arabic Bible. Or they also use the word "Allah"? That will be a big headache for you if they use the same word Allah to mean The God while you think that Muslims who are radical monotheist will be using the same word to mean "the god" when they do not have more than 1 God, while christians have 3 Gods with one of them being a man.

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name ... corresponding to the Baylonian Bel" (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).

I know that Muslims will find this hard to believe so I am now going to make many citations and present the archaeological evidence to prove conclusively that is true. Though this data will be painful for many of our readers, it is necessary to face the truth. Facts are facts, and unless you are willing to desert all logic, reason and common sense, and the evidence of your eyes, they must be faced.

"Allah is found ... in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

every culture believed in One God the Creator. For the arabs before the revival of Islam under Muhammad [sa],the arabs knew there was a Creator Who they can not see and was not represented even as they represent gods for every day of the year.

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302

show us the Name of The Supreme God of the christians arabs if it is not the same word 'allah' [i am copy your deception for you to think about]. By the way, the yoruba animists say Olorun still, the very word that yoruba christians will use and this is the same word that Muslims among the yorubas will use to mean Who they worship. What are gonna do now that your brethren among the arabs say their God is allah just like the arabs before islam?

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406)

was there a statue of this Meccan deity? Please show us the statue.

"Ilah ... appears in pre-Islamic poetry ... By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1971, III:1093)

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammed" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, "The Facts on File", ed. Anthony Mercatante, New York, 1983, I:41)

I am waiting to read where the christian arabs show the Name of their God, in there own arabic language. I know christians do argue against themselves without knowing when they think that they are arguing against the muslims. The arab christians are pagans like the muslims if they use Allah to mean their One True God. The yoruba christians are pagans if they use Olorun to mean their God, the same Olorun word that the animist/pagans use [ask pagan 9ja if you think the word Olorun is not used by both pagans and christians of the yoruba community]. Heck, every christian is a pagan if a pagan uses the same word for his god as the christian in his community the same word for his God.

The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"wink, and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1908, I:326)

Origin of Yahweh goes back to preJewish presence, even before Abraham was neither a jew nor a christian. In fact I propose unless I can be corrected that the children of Israel called their God made of Gold, Yahweh or maybe Jehovah. Can you check on that for me, Mr. Clown?
Interestingly, Jesus your human God of the christendom said Ellah.

Scholar Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University stated:

"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, the Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p.102)

Dr. Kenneth Cragg, former editor of the prestigious scholarly journal Muslim World and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works were generally published by Oxford University, comments:

The name Allah is also evident in archaeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia" (The Call of the Minaret, New York: OUP, 1956, p.31)

Every society had some belief that There is 1 God Who created everything and above all. To the arabs, even when they were pagans, Allah was the name of this Invisible God. Now that they are Muslims and even Christians, both including the Jews say God is Allah to the individual group. And they know just like the pagans that Allah is invisible.

Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic Studies at College de France, georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes:

"In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god". In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" (Mohammad's Mecca, p.vii. See also his article, "Belief in a High God in pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Scientific Semitic Studies, vol.16, 1971, pp.35-40)

Does this scholar knows that every society has a Name for the Creator God and before english people adopted christianity their Creator God even then is the same name they use for their Christian God of today; God? How is this christian God of the england not in the paganic english God if the muslim God is the same as the God of the pagan arabs? Is one paganism not as bad as the other?

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying:

"There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" (Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York: Barrons, 1987, p.28)

this is a silly opinion because it leads to nowhere, if any direction it is subjective like the rest of them. Did the arab knew of a Creator? What was the name they called Him? Now that we have Christianity in arabia, what is the name of the arab christian God? How about te name of the arab jewish God? Please write each of them in Capital letters. Whats the difference with the name of the God of the muslims who are chronic radical monotheists?

According to Middle East scholar E.M.Wherry, whose translation of the Koran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Baal, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabrück: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p.36).

Dishonesty at its core. Was Baal the same as Allah? The worshiper of Baal will necessarily worship Allah? If Allah was Baal, what reason to have worship of same God twice since just having different names will not be a good reason? Is one higher than the other? Was Baal higher was it was Allah that was higher? Which one was worshiped where in sun, moon and stars were involved? What evidence does anyone have that sun, moon and stars must be involved in the worship of Allah? Did Abraham and his Ishmael and his children branch of the the family worshiped Allah? Did they worshiped sun, moon and stars along with it, or some people later introduce paganism based on their journeys and influences with the india/hindus?

"In ancient Arabia, the sun-god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah (op.cit., Islam, p.7)

Eledumare of the yorubas could be represented today by idolater with his idol. now that that the christians say their God is Eledumare, are they still with the idolater's Eledumare?
I can assure everyone that Allah was never a statue and no moon god was called Allah.

"The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to the other titles that could be given to him.

"Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called 'the daughters of Allah'. These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

this is one of the greatest lies in that the paganic makka was very careful not represent Allah by any statue and when Abraha invaded makka to destroy it by his mighty army mounted on elephant[s], it was described that AbuduMutalib said 'oh Allah', raising his head looking skyward, 'protect your house', meaning the kaaba. notice that he did not call on any of the 360 idols the makkans housed in it.

"The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities" (Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion, Eugene, Oregon, Harvest House Publishers, 1977, pp.50-51).

shouldnt be one that is on top like father is on top of the other two Gods in Trinity? Robert Morey is a joke.

The Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend records:

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Allah" (op.cit., I:61).

so Allah is not one of the lesser God[s] of the pagans, in thee same way Yahweh of the christian is not one of the lesser Gods, like Jesus the human God and the holy ghost the spirit God? Paganism does not mean that True God is not known or recognized. It means in spite of knowing there is One God, they worship others with Him, just like the christians do with Yahweh, then worship Jesus and Ghost Gods along in Trinity.

It is a well known fact archaeologically speaking that the cresent moon was the symbol of worship of the moon god both in Arabia and throughout the Middle East in pre-Islamic times. Archaeologists have excavated numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on the top of the head of the deity to symbolise the worship of the moon-god. Interestingly, whilst the moon was generally worshipped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity.

I think we should not be deluded and ignorantly forget that the jews who the christians take as the people of God, Yahweh made up a Yahweh in Gold for themselves. They did not even stop there because the jews and the christians in their hatred for truth say that Solomon the wisest of all in the Bible was an idol worshiper and moon[god statue was discovered in Palestine of the jews, not in Makka or Madina where Islam of Muhammad [sa] took root before branching out. Which people is an idolater; the jews of palestine as indicated above or the christians of the world with Yahweh and jesus and ghost being Gods or the muslims who destroyed all the idols in the kaaba and never allow carving or imagery in their religion?

"The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

this is a yellow cake from niger syndrome argument. You and dick cheney must have the same mentality, thinking that you can lie and make it pass for truth.

"The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant rôle in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

who built the kaaba and what was its purpose? Was it to house any idol or evil people later on introduced idols to its precinct, which at the end Muhammad [sa] reversed the course, eliminating idolatry and returning the kaaba to its original intention? I am wondering my the makkans including people from his clan, the bani hashim got upset with Muhammad [sa] when he invited the to worship Allah and discard the 360 idols that they used to worship, if Allah was just an idol? Why would his family be angry an rejected his form of idolatry that he is calling worship of One God, in Islam, if it was idolatry, still without the 360 supporting Gods? His clan should have been happy because it is their moon god that is now the only important God. But they were not because they knew he destroyed idolatry and Allah is not moon god and there was no statue of Allah, whereas they needed to have physical God for each day or event.

"The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god" names they bore even long before Mohammed, the prophet of Islam was born (op.cit., Morey, p.51).

Olorunfemi is a pagan name, christian name and muslim name for a male. Shouldnt the arabs have the same freedom?

History proves conclusively that before Islam came into existence, the Sabbeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god Allah who was married to the sun-goddess.

I am going to assume that the pagan arabs were sabbeans, based on the above? And every sabbean was a pagan?

We have also seen that it was a matter of common practice to use the name of the moon-god in personal names in Muhammad's tribe. That Allah was a pagan deity in pre-Islamic times is incontestible. And so we must ask ourselves the question: why was Muhammad's God named after a pagan deity in his own tribe?

If we find any people in arabia being called Abdullah, etc, who is not an arab, then this hypothesis is false? Well we know that the jews lived in Yathrib, today's Madina. Did any jew or christian had a name that has Allah in it, prior to Muhammad's influence in the life of that person? Yes. A jewish scholar was named Abdullah Abdusalaaam.

It is an undeniable fact that an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols of the time.

This is a lie from whosoever proposed it. And where moon god statue was discovered was not near the Kaaba, unless the Kabba is located in far away palestine?

The pagans prayed towards Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed.

Kaaba is the center of Makka and the exact center of the land mass of the world. It is silly to say that the makka pagans prayed toward makka and the kaaba.

It made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and pray since that is where he was.

and when the moon god was going to be discovered, it was in Palestine not in the Rocky Makka.

Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed towards Mecca. We can also understand that the use of the crescent moon as the symbol of Islam, and which appears on dozens of flags of Islamic nations in Asia and Africa,

the symbol of Islam is never the crescent moon, because that did not appear in anything during the lifetime of the messenger [sa], his companions [RA], the other 2 successive generations [ra]. If anything was to represent Islam, it was the flag set up by Muhammad [sa], the human authority bar none. And he used plain white cloth.

and surmounts minerets and mosque roofs, is a throwback to the days when Allah was worshipped as the moon-god in Mecca.

If the asjid Haraam in Makka, Masjid of the prophet [sa] in Madina, Masjid Aqsa in Jerusalem does not have it, then it is an invention that is not islamic. None of these masajid carries crescent of moon or nothing of star.

If there is one thing that has been abundantly clear is that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is not Allah the god of the Koran, is not Vishnu the god of the Vedas, is not the god of the Buddhists, etc.

Yahweh by the tongue of Jesus on the cross is not his God, but Ellah is. I am satisfied that Ellah sounds to be like Allah, not Yahweh because Jesus did not say anything like Yahweh or Jehovah nor name of the son of Samuel, Eli. A lot of people bear Eli, Eli Manning of New York Giant whereas no on bears Ellah or Allah.

Muslims worship a deity called Allah and claim that the Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God, Yahweh, of the patriarchs, prophets, and apostles.

Religious claims often come to grief as a result of solid scientific, archaeological evidence. So, instead of endlessly speculating about the past, we can look to science to see what the evidence reveals. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the moon-god who was married to the sun-goddess and the stars were his daughters.

SO IS ALLAH OF ISLAM THE SAME AS YAHWEH OF CHRISTIANITY? NO SIR!

I think it is appropriate here to make my remarks. Idolatry first crept in to the life of man during the time of Prophet Noah, the main thing he preached against and the reason the flood ended the lives of those pagans/idolaters at that time. The names of the first idols were given in Surah Noah, wherein satan is the one who suggested to people to erect statues in remembrance of good people and later in future generation these idols now became what were worshiped instead of The One True God Who is not visible.

Lets get to Makka and start from when Abraham established his family of the Ismaila branch there. Later on it was recorded that he was inspired to build the Kaaba which he dedicated as the House of One God not visible. The story is in Surah Ibrahim and and portions can be found in others including Surah Ambiya.

We can safely state that when this building was built anew, there was no idol in it and Ibrahim did not introduce any idol in it. No idol was introduce into Kaaba in the lifetime of Ibrahim and the lifetime of Ismail and his children.

When did the first idol arrive and who brought it and for what purpose? the person who brought the first idol to the Arabian Peninsula was called and indeed to Kaaba in Makka was " Amr Ben Lohaee", a master from the Arabian tribe "Khuza'ah". He brought the idol back from his journey to India, copying the hindus. He wants to be able to get to his physical God so that it helps to get to The Invisible God the Creator, as often and not only when he is in India. This is similar to the "in jesus name" syndrome. Disbelievers of varied degrees are not satisfied that God must be Unseen. They need a physical God as well. They are the opposite of the atheist who says there is no God. The pagans say there is God but they must have something to represent Him so that the lesser God can make them feel that they can at least communicate with Hm through this physical thing.

Only a dishonest proposal that Kaaba was from the first of its existence was meant and or housed idols and the arabs never had the belief that there is a Creator God though is Unseen and the children of israel had God Who created concept because they were chosen, whereas Ismail who had greater right and was the first person named by God will recline into paganism. What benefit is therefore naming him? What advantage was he to have over Isaac who was not named by God? Was Jacob not having advantage over Esau because God named him? Why would Ismail not be advantaged, instead be disadvantaged? What will be the point of not making spirituality available to the children of Ismail that God named, but giving unlimited spirituality to the children of isaac who God did not name?

@Frosbel:

Re: Is Allah Of Islam The Same As Yahweh Of Christianity? by frosbel(m): 10:23am

Sweetnecta: @Frosbel: You need to be put down ones and for all. How is Allah same with man God Jesus who is a massiah Isa bin Maryam [as]?


Let me answer you with the corrupted bible that your Imams and scholars refer to 24/7 to prove that ISLAM is the valid. grin


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Who was called Immanuel by his mother or his people? Please give me a verse where somebody was called Immanuel so that this verse is fulfilled. Was Jesus called Immanuel? If he was not called Immanuel, then we have to look for our Immanuel as another person or this is a false verse, yet again fro the Bible.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The operative phrase is the bold. Who shouldered any government but kings rulers and prophets. Is Jesus a king and could you tell me where his throne was seated on earth? If he was a president, tell me where was his political seat?
While David and Solomon came after the Isiah verse, they were rulers of the children of Israel and they were prophets like Jesus and John were.
So who is the one among them that is uniquely shouldering a government while the others didnt? Definitely Jesus did not shoulder any government.

How is Allah same with ghost God nameless who is Jibril [malaika] [as]?


Allah is not the same with Yahweh.

Yahweh was tired and needed to be refreshed, while Allah i never weary. Definitely from the Biblical window, Allah is not same as tiring Yahweh.

How is Allah same with father God who gets tired and needs to be refreshed, not full of knowledge as he discovered after events he regretted?


Father was always on the throne, Jesus Christ was the saviour indwelt by the Spirit of the Father and was a man in the flesh yet by his very essence was the Word of God and hence God in the flesh.

Confusing to you but for the born again Christians , easy to grasp.

A sitting God you have. A savior who could not ave himself or be saved by your sitting God. This is worthy of worship?

Frosbel, Allah Rabbi Alamin, Rahman, Rahim, AlHayy, AlQayum, Al Alim, Al Hakim, etc.

Yahweh is GOD and he is not ALLAH.

deceiver frosbel. You want to write English and lost hebrew while Arabic is firmly authentic? Write God in hebrew if you can? Write God in Arabic if you can since you have christian arabs saying their God is Allah? You are a confused soul.

Please stop showing us that you have One God because from your mouth, you dont. You do have 3 Gods, though.

GOD is ONE.

My God is One and His Name is Allah. Your God[s] are 3: One of them is Jesus son of Mary you idolater. The second is no name ghost. And the third you rendered weak and dependent. You call this one Yahweh or Jehovah, while Jesus son of Mary an anointed prophet of God says his God is Ellah similar to Allah in another accent, and not Eli, the son of prophet Samuel.



@The Clown:

by The Clown: 2:37pm
The God of the Old Testament is known as YHWH ()or, when pointed with the correct vowels, Yahweh. This translates as "The Self-Existent One", being derived from the Hebrew háwáh, meaning "to exist". As Allah is the name of God on the Muslim Holy Scriptures, the Koran (or Quran), so Yahweh is the Name of God in the Hebrew Scriptures, the Bible. What is particularly interesting and significant is the fact that Yahweh never appears as the name of of any deity outside the Bible. There is no record anywhere of any other tribe or religion which worshipped Yahweh. The Hebrew Name of God is unique to the Bible and its chosen people. From this alone we may deduce that the Name "Yahweh" was not borrowed from some other culture or religion. It emerged unquely within the Bible revelation.

What did Jesus call his God but Ellah which is similar to the Arabic Allah instead of your baseless Yahweh or Jehovah. Or was Jesus incorrect and you are right? Eli is the son of Prophet Samuel, so God will not have the same name for Himself.

The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god", i.e. the god. We see immediately that (a) this is not a proper name but a generic name rather like the Hebrew El (which as we have seen was used of any deity; and (b) that Allah is not a foreign word (as it would have been if it had been borrowed from the Hebrew Bible) but a purely Arabic one. It would also be wrong to compare "Allah" with the Hebrew or Greek for God (El and Theos, respectively), because "Allah" is purely an Arabic term used exclusively in reference to an Arabic deity.

So give me the "The God" in arabic which the Christian must use n their arabic Bible. Or they also use the word "Allah"? That will be a big headache for you if they use the same word Allah to mean The God while you think that Muslims who are radical monotheist will be using the same word to mean "the god" when they do not have more than 1 God, while christians have 3 Gods with one of them being a man.

The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "'Allah' is a pre-Islamic name ... corresponding to the Baylonian Bel" (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).

I know that Muslims will find this hard to believe so I am now going to make many citations and present the archaeological evidence to prove conclusively that is true. Though this data will be painful for many of our readers, it is necessary to face the truth. Facts are facts, and unless you are willing to desert all logic, reason and common sense, and the evidence of your eyes, they must be faced.

"Allah is found ... in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643)

every culture believed in One God the Creator. For the arabs before the revival of Islam under Muhammad [sa],the arabs knew there was a Creator Who they can not see and was not represented even as they represent gods for every day of the year.

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called allah" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Houtsma, Arnold, Basset, Hartman; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1913, I:302

show us the Name of The Supreme God of the christians arabs if it is not the same word 'allah' [i am copy your deception for you to think about]. By the way, the yoruba animists say Olorun still, the very word that yoruba christians will use and this is the same word that Muslims among the yorubas will use to mean Who they worship. What are gonna do now that your brethren among the arabs say their God is allah just like the arabs before islam?

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb, I:406)

was there a statue of this Meccan deity? Please show us the statue.

"Ilah ... appears in pre-Islamic poetry ... By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry" (Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht; Leiden: E.J.Brill, 1971, III:1093)

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammed" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, "The Facts on File", ed. Anthony Mercatante, New York, 1983, I:41)

I am waiting to read where the christian arabs show the Name of their God, in there own arabic language. I know christians do argue against themselves without knowing when they think that they are arguing against the muslims. The arab christians are pagans like the muslims if they use Allah to mean their One True God. The yoruba christians are pagans if they use Olorun to mean their God, the same Olorun word that the animist/pagans use [ask pagan 9ja if you think the word Olorun is not used by both pagans and christians of the yoruba community]. Heck, every christian is a pagan if a pagan uses the same word for his god as the christian in his community the same word for his God.

The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"wink, and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1908, I:326)

Origin of Yahweh goes back to preJewish presence, even before Abraham was neither a jew nor a christian. In fact I propose unless I can be corrected that the children of Israel called their God made of Gold, Yahweh or maybe Jehovah. Can you check on that for me, Mr. Clown?
Interestingly, Jesus your human God of the christendom said Ellah.

Scholar Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University stated:

"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, the Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p.102)

Dr. Kenneth Cragg, former editor of the prestigious scholarly journal Muslim World and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works were generally published by Oxford University, comments:

The name Allah is also evident in archaeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia" (The Call of the Minaret, New York: OUP, 1956, p.31)

Every society had some belief that There is 1 God Who created everything and above all. To the arabs, even when they were pagans, Allah was the name of this Invisible God. Now that they are Muslims and even Christians, both including the Jews say God is Allah to the individual group. And they know just like the pagans that Allah is invisible.

Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic Studies at College de France, georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes:

"In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god". In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" (Mohammad's Mecca, p.vii. See also his article, "Belief in a High God in pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Scientific Semitic Studies, vol.16, 1971, pp.35-40)

Does this scholar knows that every society has a Name for the Creator God and before english people adopted christianity their Creator God even then is the same name they use for their Christian God of today; God? How is this christian God of the england not in the paganic english God if the muslim God is the same as the God of the pagan arabs? Is one paganism not as bad as the other?

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying:

"There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" (Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York: Barrons, 1987, p.28)

this is a silly opinion because it leads to nowhere, if any direction it is subjective like the rest of them. Did the arab knew of a Creator? What was the name they called Him? Now that we have Christianity in arabia, what is the name of the arab christian God? How about te name of the arab jewish God? Please write each of them in Capital letters. Whats the difference with the name of the God of the muslims who are chronic radical monotheists?

According to Middle East scholar E.M.Wherry, whose translation of the Koran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Baal, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabrück: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p.36).

Dishonesty at its core. Was Baal the same as Allah? The worshiper of Baal will necessarily worship Allah? If Allah was Baal, what reason to have worship of same God twice since just having different names will not be a good reason? Is one higher than the other? Was Baal higher was it was Allah that was higher? Which one was worshiped where in sun, moon and stars were involved? What evidence does anyone have that sun, moon and stars must be involved in the worship of Allah? Did Abraham and his Ishmael and his children branch of the the family worshiped Allah? Did they worshiped sun, moon and stars along with it, or some people later introduce paganism based on their journeys and influences with the india/hindus?

"In ancient Arabia, the sun-god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah (op.cit., Islam, p.7)

Eledumare of the yorubas could be represented today by idolater with his idol. now that that the christians say their God is Eledumare, are they still with the idolater's Eledumare?
I can assure everyone that Allah was never a statue and no moon god was called Allah.

"The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to the other titles that could be given to him.

"Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called 'the daughters of Allah'. These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

this is one of the greatest lies in that the paganic makka was very careful not represent Allah by any statue and when Abraha invaded makka to destroy it by his mighty army mounted on elephant[s], it was described that AbuduMutalib said 'oh Allah', raising his head looking skyward, 'protect your house', meaning the kaaba. notice that he did not call on any of the 360 idols the makkans housed in it.

"The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities" (Robert Morey, The Islamic Invasion, Eugene, Oregon, Harvest House Publishers, 1977, pp.50-51).

shouldnt be one that is on top like father is on top of the other two Gods in Trinity? Robert Morey is a joke.

The Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend records:

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Allah" (op.cit., I:61).

so Allah is not one of the lesser God[s] of the pagans, in thee same way Yahweh of the christian is not one of the lesser Gods, like Jesus the human God and the holy ghost the spirit God? Paganism does not mean that True God is not known or recognized. It means in spite of knowing there is One God, they worship others with Him, just like the christians do with Yahweh, then worship Jesus and Ghost Gods along in Trinity.

It is a well known fact archaeologically speaking that the cresent moon was the symbol of worship of the moon god both in Arabia and throughout the Middle East in pre-Islamic times. Archaeologists have excavated numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on the top of the head of the deity to symbolise the worship of the moon-god. Interestingly, whilst the moon was generally worshipped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity.

I think we should not be deluded and ignorantly forget that the jews who the christians take as the people of God, Yahweh made up a Yahweh in Gold for themselves. They did not even stop there because the jews and the christians in their hatred for truth say that Solomon the wisest of all in the Bible was an idol worshiper and moon[god statue was discovered in Palestine of the jews, not in Makka or Madina where Islam of Muhammad [sa] took root before branching out. Which people is an idolater; the jews of palestine as indicated above or the christians of the world with Yahweh and jesus and ghost being Gods or the muslims who destroyed all the idols in the kaaba and never allow carving or imagery in their religion?

"The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

this is a yellow cake from niger syndrome argument. You and dick cheney must have the same mentality, thinking that you can lie and make it pass for truth.

"The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant rôle in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

who built the kaaba and what was its purpose? Was it to house any idol or evil people later on introduced idols to its precinct, which at the end Muhammad [sa] reversed the course, eliminating idolatry and returning the kaaba to its original intention? I am wondering my the makkans including people from his clan, the bani hashim got upset with Muhammad [sa] when he invited the to worship Allah and discard the 360 idols that they used to worship, if Allah was just an idol? Why would his family be angry an rejected his form of idolatry that he is calling worship of One God, in Islam, if it was idolatry, still without the 360 supporting Gods? His clan should have been happy because it is their moon god that is now the only important God. But they were not because they knew he destroyed idolatry and Allah is not moon god and there was no statue of Allah, whereas they needed to have physical God for each day or event.

"The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god" names they bore even long before Mohammed, the prophet of Islam was born (op.cit., Morey, p.51).

Olorunfemi is a pagan name, christian name and muslim name for a male. Shouldnt the arabs have the same freedom?

History proves conclusively that before Islam came into existence, the Sabbeans in Arabia worshipped the moon-god Allah who was married to the sun-goddess.

I am going to assume that the pagan arabs were sabbeans, based on the above? And every sabbean was a pagan?

We have also seen that it was a matter of common practice to use the name of the moon-god in personal names in Muhammad's tribe. That Allah was a pagan deity in pre-Islamic times is incontestible. And so we must ask ourselves the question: why was Muhammad's God named after a pagan deity in his own tribe?

If we find any people in arabia being called Abdullah, etc, who is not an arab, then this hypothesis is false? Well we know that the jews lived in Yathrib, today's Madina. Did any jew or christian had a name that has Allah in it, prior to Muhammad's influence in the life of that person? Yes. A jewish scholar was named Abdullah Abdusalaaam.

It is an undeniable fact that an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols of the time.

This is a lie from whosoever proposed it. And where moon god statue was discovered was not near the Kaaba, unless the Kabba is located in far away palestine?

The pagans prayed towards Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed.

Kaaba is the center of Makka and the exact center of the land mass of the world. It is silly to say that the makka pagans prayed toward makka and the kaaba.

It made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and pray since that is where he was.

and when the moon god was going to be discovered, it was in Palestine not in the Rocky Makka.

Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed towards Mecca. We can also understand that the use of the crescent moon as the symbol of Islam, and which appears on dozens of flags of Islamic nations in Asia and Africa,

the symbol of Islam is never the crescent moon, because that did not appear in anything during the lifetime of the messenger [sa], his companions [RA], the other 2 successive generations [ra]. If anything was to represent Islam, it was the flag set up by Muhammad [sa], the human authority bar none. And he used plain white cloth.

and surmounts minerets and mosque roofs, is a throwback to the days when Allah was worshipped as the moon-god in Mecca.

If the asjid Haraam in Makka, Masjid of the prophet [sa] in Madina, Masjid Aqsa in Jerusalem does not have it, then it is an invention that is not islamic. None of these masajid carries crescent of moon or nothing of star.

If there is one thing that has been abundantly clear is that Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is not Allah the god of the Koran, is not Vishnu the god of the Vedas, is not the god of the Buddhists, etc.

Yahweh by the tongue of Jesus on the cross is not his God, but Ellah is. I am satisfied that Ellah sounds to be like Allah, not Yahweh because Jesus did not say anything like Yahweh or Jehovah nor name of the son of Samuel, Eli. A lot of people bear Eli, Eli Manning of New York Giant whereas no on bears Ellah or Allah.

Muslims worship a deity called Allah and claim that the Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God, Yahweh, of the patriarchs, prophets, and apostles.

Religious claims often come to grief as a result of solid scientific, archaeological evidence. So, instead of endlessly speculating about the past, we can look to science to see what the evidence reveals. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the moon-god who was married to the sun-goddess and the stars were his daughters.

SO IS ALLAH OF ISLAM THE SAME AS YAHWEH OF CHRISTIANITY? NO SIR!

I thin it is appropriate here to make my remarks. Idolatry first crept in to the life of man during the time of Prophet Noah, the main thing he preached against and the reason the flood ended the lives of those pagans/idolaters at that time. The names of the first idols were given in Surah Noah, wherein satan is the one who suggested to people to erect statues in remembrance of good people and later in future generation these idols now became what were worshiped instead of The One True God Who is not visible.

Lets get to Makka and start from when Abraham established his family of the Ismaila branch there. Later on it was recorded that he was inspired to build the Kaaba which he dedicated as the House of One God not visible. The story is in Surah Ibrahim and and portions can be found in others including Surah Ambiya.

We can safely state that when this building was built anew, there was no idol in it and Ibrahim did not introduce any idol in it. No idol was introduce into Kaaba in the lifetime of Ibrahim and the lifetime of Ismail and his children.

When did the first idol arrive and who brought it and for what purpose? the person who brought the first idol to the Arabian Peninsula was called and indeed to Kaaba in Makka was " Amr Ben Lohaee", a master from the Arabian tribe "Khuza'ah". He brought the idol back from his journey to India, copying the hindus. He wants to be able to get to his physical God so that it helps to get to The Invisible God the Creator, as often and not only when he is in India. This is similar to the "in jesus name" syndrome. Disbelievers of varied degrees are not satisfied that God must be Unseen. They need a physical God as well. They are the opposite of the atheist who says there is no God. The pagans say there is God but they must have something to represent Him so that the lesser God can make them feel that they can at least communicate with Hm through this physical thing.

Only a dishonest proposal that Kaaba was from the first of its existence was meant and or housed idols and the arabs never had the belief that there is a Creator God though is Unseen and the children of israel had God Who created concept because they were chosen, whereas Ismail who had greater right and was the first person named by God will recline into paganism. What benefit is therefore naming him? What advantage was he to have over Isaac who was not named by God? Was Jacob not having advantage over Esau because God named him? Why would Ismail not be advantaged, instead be disadvantaged? What will be the point of not making spirituality available to the children of Ismail that God named, but giving unlimited spirituality to the children of isaac who God did not name?

wa aleyum salaam wa rahmatUllah.

InshaAllah it will be Sunday because the Saudi Judiciary did say the new moon was not sighted.

Check on Fatwa-online.com

@Frosbel:

No wonder lagosshia and co are hard against you. You are dishonest when you present your evidence. You go out of your way to embellish, lie, etc against the Another Comforter and the revival of the religion that Jesus belonged to and what truth Jesus left with his true followers, his helpers in CAUSE of his mission from God. This is shameful. You need to rethink your spirituality because it is evil and thats why it has been so easy for fallacy to flow freely from you.

by frosbel(m): 1:23pm
Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

If Jesus [as] was not my prophet in islam I would have entered something like the following from my knowledge of the events in the Bible just to get frosbel to go hide under a boulder

The enemies of Jesus were the Jews who he was sent to. The lost were the majority, then and still as today's majority hate Jesus. The enemies conquered him by killing him either because they realize he did not have true love or they hated him more that they can stand of his presence.

To talk about Islam as if its the twin sister of Catholicism when Protestantism came out of is a human child denying his mother, and opted to be the offspring of a gorilla, instead.

Jihad is struggle in arabic. Every struggle is Jihad. When I struggle to ignore Tidytim of Nairaland, thats Jihad. When I decide to not let have Frosbel have the floor here now, thats Jihad, too. I have not raised any arms against either persons; in my Jihad against Tidytim and Frosbel. The catholic killed muslims by their crusade, so how is Islam related to catholicism?

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

spiritual killing is worst. And the Jews could not stand it when Jesus called them vampires, adulterous generation, people of little faith. Jesus advocated killing of disbelievers, even as the king he wanted revolting citizens to be slaughtered before him.

At least no one took the properties of Jesus because he had none, while the Makkans ran Muhammad [sa] and his followers out and took over their properties, corpus to benefit themselves. Will you not ask you your properties back if I went to Nnawi to deprive you of your heritage, and even bring some of the wealth to a gathering of ndigbo people in England? If the people know that i took your wealth and spending it while you sit there poor, if you do not attempt to take your heritage back from this "outsider", the whole of ndigbo and britishers should reject you and send you to waterloo. I dont know what kind of mind will let someone abuse him without ever struggling to end it?

Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.

What did Muhammad [sa] do different than what every prophet [as] in terms of declaring his mission, warning the against evil which will bring the punishment of God at last after death, steering people to be on the path of obedience to God through the outlined guidance? Can man control the heart of another? Did Muhammad forced Ali Abi Talib while he didn't force Abu Lahab? The forgiveness he showed the Makkans on the day of his victory over the city is unparalleled in human history because Jesus is reported to be returning to kill the jews if they do not follow him.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

and all of that love, etc amounted to zero because the jews are still not christians. The whole of Makka being a muslim city is a testimony to the truth and practical approach to be successful. How about Taif? Madina and as terrible as people wants to paint Islam, Jews are entering it.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

The best standard of how to see an enemy is the standard of God. God destroyed enemies. Overlooking the fault of people is the hallmark of Muhammad [sa] the reason he kept his duties to agreement, forgiving people and alas, there are not musiim arabs and other non muslims living in Morocco, and other so called muslim societies.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

when we call you multiple God worshiper you will rush to say you only worship One God, unless you are contrasting Muhammad [sa] to God? Muhammad [sa] was a human being, a messenger of his God. I prefer Muhammad's approach in conflicts over the approach of who you say you worship here. The reason is Muhammad's approach is practical and preserves human dignity, honor and life. In all your God will say to you "i never knew ye".

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

how do you know the first bold since Jesus is not here? The second bold is rendered worthless by saying "My God, my God . .". And i wonder why such a forgiving person as you have claimed for him did not forgive the second thief who didnt praise him?

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Many muslims were killed in america because they were muslims. No part of any conflict an their killers were christians. What do you say to that, Frosbel?

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

I guess Islam is not the opposite of Jesus who was not a christian? Frosbel, you are s illogical because atheists are having a field day on islam. Christians and jews and hindus are having their cake and eating it too on Islam.

You decide !

See my decision; I am grateful that I am a muslim.



@Nimshi

by Nimshi: 1:34pm
Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

Became violent because he stood his ground when he was commanded to do so? You dont stop running away from the bully when you are told by mom to face the bully who is actually weak?

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? [b]Mohammed's violence [/b]will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

can you tell me a single conflict that Muhammad [sa] started on innocent person or people? Can you tell me a single violence for his own sake as a person, not because he was commanded, or to render the right of other protected, etc as prophet of his time forward?

@Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 1:23pm
Jesus conquered his enemies through LOVE while the Muslims and Catholics conquered their enemies through Jihad and the Crusades.

If Jesus [as] was not my prophet in islam I would have entered something like the following from my knowledge of the events in the Bible just to get frosbel to go hide under a boulder

The enemies of Jesus were the Jews who he was sent to. The lost were the majority, then and still as today's majority hate Jesus. The enemies conquered him by killing him either because they realize he did not have true love or they hated him more that they can stand of his presence.

To talk about Islam as if its the twin sister of Catholicism when Protestantism came out of is a human child denying his mother, and opted to be the offspring of a gorilla, instead.

Jihad is struggle in arabic. Every struggle is Jihad. When I struggle to ignore Tidytim of Nairaland, thats Jihad. When I decide to not let have Frosbel have the floor here now, thats Jihad, too. I have not raised any arms against either persons; in my Jihad against Tidytim and Frosbel. The catholic killed muslims by their crusade, so how is Islam related to catholicism?

Muhammad went on countless raids and wars in which thousands died but Jesus did not kill 1 soul nor did he fight for an earthly kingdom or tell his followers to do so , yet millions were given eternal life by him and freely so.

spiritual killing is worst. And the Jews could not stand it when Jesus called them vampires, adulterous generation, people of little faith. Jesus advocated killing of disbelievers, even as the king he wanted revolting citizens to be slaughtered before him.

At least no one too the properties of Jesus because he had none, while the Makkans ran Muhammad [sa] and his followers out and took over their properties, corpus to benefit themselves. Will you not ask you your properties back if I went to Nnawi to deprive you of your heritage, and even bring some of the wealth to a gathering of ndigbo people in England? If the people know that i took your wealth and spending it while you sit there poor, if you do not attempt to take your heritage back from this "outsider", the whole of ndigbo and britishers should reject you and send you to waterloo. I dont know what kind of mind will let someone abuse him without ever struggling to end it?


]quote]Jesus wanted a peculiar people, holy and beloved to inherit the new heaven and earth which will appear after this wicked one is destroyed with fire, but Muhammed was far more concerned about conquering this present corrupt world in which we live than saving souls for the life after.[/quote]WHat did Muhammad [sa] do different than what every prophet [as] in terms of declaring his mission, warning the against evil which will bring the punishment of God at last after death, steering people to be on the path of obedience to God through the outlined guidance? Can man control the heart of another? Did Muhammad forced Ali Abi Talib while he didn't force Abu Lahab? The forgiveness he showed the Makkans on the day of his victory over the city is unparalleled in human history because Jesus is reported to be returning to kill the jews if they do not follow him.

Jesus coerced people through logic , love , truth and kindness, Muhammad coerced people with the edge of the sword.

and all of that love, etc amounted to zero because the jews are still not christians. The whole of Makka being a muslim city is a testimony to the truth and practical approach to be successful. How about Taif? Madina and as terrible as people wants to paint Islam, Jews are entering it.

Jesus considers love for your enemies as a sign of strength , while Muhammed considers it as a sign of weakness.

The best standard of how to see an enemy is the standard of God. God destroyed enemies. Overlooking the fault of people is the hallmark of Muhammad [sa] the reason he kept his duties to agreement, forgiving people and alas, there are not musiim arabs and other non muslims living in Morocco, and other so called muslim societies.

Bottom line, Jesus is LOVE , he is the saviour of mankind and the only one worthy of our praise and worship.

when we call you multiple God worshiper you will rush to say you only worship One God, unless you are contrasting Muhammad [sa] to God? Muhammad [sa] was a human being, a messenger of his God. I prefer Muhammad's approach in conflicts over the approach of who you say you worship here. The reason is Muhammad's approach is practical and preserves human dignity, honor and life. In all your God will say to you "i never knew ye".

Atheists, Muslims and other enemies of the cross insult Jesus 24/7 and yet he ignores them and is grieved for their abject foolishness and entanglement in Satan's deception , on the cross he said Father forgive them and even saved the thief on the cross after his initial outburst.

how do you know the first bold since Jesus is not here? The second bold is rendered worthless by saying "My God, my God . .". And i wonder why such a forgiving person as you have claimed for him did not forgive the second thief who didnt praise him?

Yet many atheists, Muslims and others enemies of ISLAM have been slaughtered in their millions for simply disagreeing with Muhammad.

Many muslims were killed in america because they were muslims. No part of any conflict an their killers were christians. What do you say to that, Frosbel?

Atheists dare not ridicule ISLAM publicly for fear of immediate beheading , yet these cowards and religious fools can ridicule Christ because they know he is a lamb that will not speak in retaliation or revenge.

I guess Islam is not the opposite of Jesus who was not a christian? Frosbel, you are s illogical because atheists are having a field day on islam. Christians and jews and hindus are having their cake and eating it too on Islam.

You decide !

See my decision; I am grateful that I am a muslim.



@Nimshi

by Nimshi: 1:34pm
Actually:

1) Yes, Allah's Prophet became violent; but initially, he was peace-loving, until, of course, Islam became the dominant religion

Became violent because he stood his ground when he was commanded to do so? You dont stop running away from the bully when you are told by mom to face the bully who is actually weak?

2) But, how's Jesus any different? In his first coming, he was peaceful, but most and/or all Christian sects accept that his second coming will be quite very violent. Isn't that so? [b]Mohammed's violence [/b]will be 'nothing' compared to the 'violence' predicted for non-Christians when Jesus the Christ returns.

It is a mistake to present the Christian God as pacifist. Yahweh, or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Jews is clear to present as a 'manly person of war' (he's lived up that reputation by engaging in serial genocides, infanticide, and all sorts); Jesus presented as a reformed version of that deity, but only for a while. . .

So please, it isn't pretty to misrepresent the Christian God as only loving; he is able to wage war and win it; his peaceful posture must not be mistaken as pacifist.

can you tell me a single conflict that Muhammad [sa] started on innocent person or people? Can you tell me a single violence for his own sake as a person, not because he was commanded, or to render the right of other protected, etc as prophet of his time forward?

4;93
But whoever kills a believer intentionally - his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.

intentionally killing a believer [obviously the believer was wrongly cut down]. The condition for remaining in hell is that Allah becomes Angry and cursed the killer who intentionally killed a believer. One will expect that whoever God is Angry with, curses from Him and great punishment can be expected. Now Allah does not say He will show anything on this killer but remaining Angry at him.

11;106-108
Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth. And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein so long for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break.

the dweller of fire here is unlike the one above because of different crimes they committed. While the one above intentionally killed a believer, the group below here is just wretched but not killer of believer intentionally.
The time he will spend in hell is described to the amount of time earth and heavens endure. No one can get to heavens to measure it so we will analyze the time the earth is here today.

The reality is that we do not know for sure how old the earth is because there may be at least a single variable that is so deep in the core of the earth or in the earth atmosphere or some other place under the heavens that man will never discover to be able to say this is how old the earth is, today.

But who knows how long man will remain more from today on the earth? More factors: For sure man will die off completely before the earth will be ended. What will be the amount of time before God destroys the earth after man has died off without a trace of once dominating the earth? Further, who knows the yardstick of how Allah will measure a day which could be as long as 50,000 earth years. What if Allah multiples each day of the earth existence which we dont know now and what it will be when it will be destroyed by 50,000 years?

Can anyone really wants to spend a day in hell? Is it not a known observation that a person experience great difficulty often say it is eternity to him during the difficulty which he does not know the time it will end in the future? A man dipped in hell for a moment and brought forgot that he had ever seen any good in his existence. So considering human experience on earth, eternity is when you see an ending.

God says He can make exception for the group here, showing His Quality of His Unlimited Ability to show Mercy. This people if you notice God did not curse them and has not became Angry with them. The difference of one permanent eternity as in above and the one here is according to Will of Allah, never forgiving the first group and may forgive the later group at some point, earliest time in this is the length of time the earth and heavens endure.