₦airaland Forum

@Mr_Anony:

Mr_Anony(m): 6:56pm
I'm purposely disregarding some parts of your reply because we simply can't come to an understanding of "selfless love" and "hypothetical" therefore I see no need in stressing it further.you dont know what love is, so selfless is something you dont realize what it means, the reason you are mix-matching God with human so that you can satisfy your opinion of selflessness. Hypothetical is lacking absolute reality. A woman who is a man, in reality can not be a man, because real man gets woman pregnant, naturally. Same way real God is always real God and can never be a man, naturally.




[quote]This is just another way of saying you believe in the quran alone and then cover your ears to everything else.

this is saying that Quran is my criterion and it does allow me to be liberal in something, which are what i accept from the Bible and commands me to be conservative in others which is why i do not accept others from the Bible. I am in the middle course.

I don't know about God forgiving Adam and Eve. It have not seen it in my bible. About Jesus' sacrifice, the question is whether you will accept it if I showed you from the bible.

if Adam and Eve are not forgiven, where is the destination, now? Hell and you will go to paradise, considering they were created by God first, you are only a replica. If Adam and Eve are not forgiven and will not be in paradise, how can you be in the opposite? You will never in a million years show me the absolute evidence of any sacrifice of Jesus. But I want you to try, still.

Many times Jesus talked about the fact that He must do the will of God. Many times, Jesus talked about how He will be crucified. Many times, Jesus talked about how He can do nothing other than obey the Father's command. Jesus went to the cross and was crucified in willing obedience.

We can see how you play with words, changing definitions at will. You started out with God is God of Jesus. Then all of a sudden the same God is now father to Jesus who just said God is his God. How Jesus is the son of God, you can not explain it in a million years. Yet if I ask you of how a man is the father of a child, you will say he sired him if he got the mother pregnant or adopted the child if he did not sire him or you may just scratch your head and wonder what i had for breakfast if the child is neither of the about or even if its not a human child since some love their animals so much that they become liars when they say their pet are their children.


God is not the same kind as Jesus, a man from his mother and approved by God. From the pages of your Bible one can read that Jesus prayed for God to help him against those who wished to harm him. Whoever ended up on the cross didnt do so willingly, and that can be proven if not by anything else, but by his crying out rebelliously "my God [not my father], my God [not my father], why has thou forsaken me?". No believer will say that if he is obedient. If Jesus talked about being crucified, he definitely didnt live the part because John didn't cry out as he was being beheaded.

Please show where Christ said this. I don't know the part of my bible you are referring to.

ransom is paid because it is demanded. who demanded it and from whom was it demanded so that Jesus is forced as the sacrificed in the ransom? Christ didnt say it is my point. God didnt say it is still my point. God did not demand any ransom from anyone or from Himself for sinners to be forgiven, and letting innocent man be sacrificed. Somebody made up the concept which you accepted without thinking it through.

I can show you scripture backing what I said but first of all, will you accept it as truth if I showed you?

I will, if there is no proof to say its not so. We shall use your bible, since it is what you believe in and what I asked you to prove from.

if mr_anony is sincere, he will think very deeply before he hypothesize that God could leave quality of Godship/Lordship for a moment just to secure the success of sinners, when He is the Only One Who can forgive then as God/Lord. He could and should simply forgive them without losing any Authority of His Lordship/Godship and no one can question Him of His Action, rather than take a route that makes no sense even from the view human or animal or other things in the creation.


If human is to put himself in place of his cattle to prevent lion from eating them, his cattle will still be meals after he has become lunch of the lion. The reality is that it is the instinctive quality of the lion to kill and eat flesh, meat, muscle creatures. Lion will even kill young ones from a different father, or stray lion, etc so that its the one that remains in control of the resources.


The greatest enemy of God is satan who is in disobedience, also the enemy of man that God created. Satan has been enemy of man from the beginning of man and he is determined to remain so until the end when he will meet his own end. Satan being a jinn has freewill and knows his limitation in that he can only disobey God while satan simply tempt man in order to lead him into destruction.


If God were to be man, and according to the NT seeing what he did to the man Jesus, he would have killed this less than most powerful God at that time and no one to protect Jesus from the hands of satan, because Jesus would be wrong to say "thou not live by bread, alone, or though shall worship God alone, . . . ." because frankly there will not be a God or any God or The God to control all situations. That will make satan able to truly control everything, taking over all including the angels, etc. What will happen is that paradise and or hell will be useless because their functions will be different for their original purposes. Satan could simply destroy man at that time or at anytime without anyone to prevent him and mankind will not be recreated for judgment day, circumvention all initial purposes and plans.


It is the fact that God remained as God and Jesus was a servant sent and must complete his mission that we can safely say, God did not let satan have power over Jesus, in at least one or more forms in the "temptation" saga. And God is not a man that He be tempted, says the Bible.


Satan can not destroy or tempt Angel of God, why will God allow Himself to be under the control of satan? This will mean therefore Angels become more powerful than God, or Angels do not have any power and definitely rendering everything into a state of chaos because there is no God in power. But God is Utmost Orderly, which is a byproduct of His having Knowledge of all things at all times. He does not cease to be God, the reason it is impossible that He be from among man, even for a moment!


Finally, the Bible or the christian declares God raised Jesus up. This statement is so powerful against the idea that God is Jesus. Jesus could never have been God if we analyze the fact that it is God that the christian believes raised Jesus up and not Jesus raising Jesus up because if Jesus was dead, he had no power to do anything in death, since he even declared when alive that he had no power of his own to do anything.


I do not subscribe to the idea that Jesus died because The Quran is clear in this. The Bible says Jesus was protected in the temptation saga from satan who was more powerful and more conniving than jews. There is no reason after all of rendering the deceit of satan to nothing that God will let Jesus die a death of Curse in the hands of those people who are less deceitful and who will still go to lake of fire and or for the salvation of those who will believe it, yet with all the beliefs, Jesus said they will still be rejected as some people who followed him because of their evil, lack of sincere faith in following. We see the same condition with Moses that some people who followed him will end up in opposite camp from Moses because of their own deeds even though they followed Moses out of Egypt. We see that Muhammad [sa] said the same thing about the hypocrites in his community because of their deeds.


In each case, we see a path of personal deeds and if it is different from the real truth each brought, the individual followe will not be a true follower but a hypocrite and or a liar against the messenger/prophet.


Nowhere Jesus said he is God. He said he was sent by God. I am sent by God, too. Jesus had a direct book. I have the book of the one sent with a book. I am therefore a messenger of that messenger to Mr. Anony.


Just like Moses didnt say he was the last prophet, but the jews say it for him so that they can deny anyone after him. The same applies to Jesus who did not say he was the last prophet while the christians are managing and struggling to say he was so that they can classify anyone after him as not a true prophet of God, even though he may have clearly passed the acid test of true prophet-hood if they look at what Jesus said.


It is Muhammad that the Quran declares as the last messenger and seal of prophet-hood, the only reason i personally reject anyone after Muhammad [sa].


God does not need blood to forgive mankind. He cancelled the even the blood of animals as primary means of atonement according to the christians in their efforts to cheapen the quality of the forgiveness that the jews in their Bible. Instead the christians worsen the condition by making God so vengeful by demanding human blood. God in His Manner of Forgiveness is contrary to this system of the christians. If that was so as the christians proposed, the human blood would have been from the beginning, even before Adam, or in the weaker manner Adam would have been the one to shed the blood.


However, God has made forgiveness easiest for us by not demanding blood from us, except sincerity of heart, showing that we as slaves God has not burden us as the people who claim that they are the chosen tribe and those who say they are the children have saddled themselves with burdens. The easy forgiveness process of the muslims is even demonstrated in the forgiveness of Adam and Eve because nothing physical was demanded from them. And there was no curse on them of hard labor and difficulty of childbirth which should have been unique to man. However every specie labors and suffers to eat and procreate. We see the beavers doing hard labor in making its dam and its home. Every animal work hard for their abode and their meal when they are in their natural elements. All female animals go through the difficulty of childbirth, even the domesticated animals.


If a muslim were to commit adultery, he simply repent in sincerity to God for forgiveness.

If a christian were to commit adultery, is he covered by the blood of Jesus without sincere repentance to God in order to be forgiven?

If the blood of Jesus is not simply enough of itself for the christian in the above situation, then what is the need for the blood because the muslim does not need it to achieve the same exact goal if both were forgiven?

@ Vemmawealth:

by vemmawealth(f): 12:06am

Sweetnecta: @Vemmawealth: If islam is a deception, point to one religion for sure that is not a deception, if you are what you are talking about? I will be waiting to read your honest "truth".



Christianity is the true and acceptable way of living by God.

since Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc including were not Christians and their way was not Christianity, what is their fate based on the bold? Heck, the non christian man Jesus said many will be shunned by him. he was not talking about the muslims, you know, but those calling themselves christians. How is Christianity the true and acceptable way of living by God when Jesus did not live like that and there is no statement of approval of christianity by God in the whole Bible? if you have Jesus living like christians and or God approval of the living lifestyle of christians, show them or it. mere statement that has no factual support is meaningless; it is jaw jocking.

Sweetnecta: And since Allah is the arabic word for "the god", could you write out for us the arabic word for "The God"?


In english language, there is what is called definite and indefinite articles. An article is definite when the receptor of a message have a fore knowledge of it. "The" is d pre-fix for definite article. Also an article is indefinite when d receptor has no fore knowledge of it. "a" or "an" is d prefix for indefinite article. Articles have to be differentiated

"God" is used to denote Jehovah of d bible becos he's God and his status need no differentiation. He's supreme and above every of his creation. Whoever named Allah referred to him in definite terms for emphasis but Jehovah needs no emphasis of man.

with all of your exegesis, you managed to not answer a simple question based on your assured statement in the previous post. I will not let you off easy. Since you dont have a clue of how to write "The God" in arabic, the christian arabs, and the jewish arabs call their "The God" Allah! Get yourself an arabic bible and learn instead of burying your head in the mud of where ever you are. Reality is that there is no ability for you an african and non muslim to know what the arabs and muslims call "The God" and "the god".

Let me tell you what the jews will say about your trinity; you claim it is Jehovah. the jews believe you have jehovah. i think it is jehovah, too. this is the reason you say Halleluyah, which does not resemble neither Jehovah nor Yahweh, but Allah in Syriac; Ellah. And Jesus did not say Jehovah or Yahweh on the cross [i dont believe the biblical account], but said Ellah so much so that the people thought he said Elias. Get a bible and learn before you through yourself headlong into Islamiic and Arabic discussion, that is so much way over your head.

Sweetnecta: And since "illah" is the Arabic word for God, could you write out for us to see the Arabic word for "god"?


I used illah so everyone can see the "i".Upper case "I" when placed beside lower case "L" looks like L and confusing.

and you didnt attempt to write out "god" in arabic? Which is easier to write in arabic God or god? Do you the arabic word for god different from Illah/illah?

Sweetnecta: And could you write the arabic sentence meaning "there is no god but "The God", since "la illah ill Allah" s not it?


Every thing people worship apart from Jehovah is "god".Note d lower case "g".

so you dont know the arabic word for "god" then, since you didnt write it and you are saying Allah is not the Arabic word for The God, will Illah is just God, god. Let me tell you something God, god each is a subjective word to the speaker and could be different to what the listener perceive. "The God" is different because there is the emphasis of the "The" to firmness of the knowledge of the speaker and the listener is not to doubt the Entity the speaker is talking about. Let me give you a weak similarity; The Man is definitely known by the defining characteristics and qualities [in the days of yankee baseball team owner, george brenner, the yankee organization and all who wants to talk about him will say "the boss". when you hear that, you know who they are talking about, while Man, man could be any male. Allah is definitely known as Rabbi Alamin and the other descriptive characteristic qualities making Him uniquely identifiable and different from any God or god who may be weak and need to rest and get refreshed, or even regret, repent because of what he discovered after his action or action of others. Allah knows before the present, the present and the future. If Allah with the completeness of Complete and Unique Lordship is not The Absolute God to be worship, then is anything that shares power, regretting, tired and refreshing God to you?

And there is no lower case in arabic or an any semitic language including what Moses and Jesus communicated with. And in oral statements, you can not know lower or upper case letters or words, except by description of quality and character of the subject. If Jehovah is the only God, then what is Yahweh, Eloi, ELoim, etc? What is Oluwa of the yoruba christians? Jesus worshiped his Lord, Eloi, Ellah. Not Jehovah. Not Yahweh. The God of Moses didnt say Hw was Jehovah or Yahweh. Abraham did not know Jehovah or Yahweh. Noah didnt know about Jehovah or Yahweh. Adam didnt know about Jehovah or Yahweh. Give me proof that I a wrong, since I have given you plenty that the God of Jesus is Ellah "The God".

You can now fill in d gap.

I thought you left a colossal crater, you need to explain yourself instead of leaving things undone. You should not have started if you cant because you dont have the info to do it.



@Vemmawealth

by vemmawealth(f): 8:50am

Sweetnecta: you have not seen a person who suffer epileptic seizure. such a person will have no memory of the episode and or what happened in it.

so to say receiver of the Quran suffered such seizure, then he must have been a superior superman to remember all these details so much so that the Bible is pale to it.


I didn't say epilepsy. I said seizures. There are other seizures different from epilepsy.

so give us the type of seizure that you know the receiver of Quran experienced. if don't know it, then you have not spoken the truth. Incidentally it was reported that Moses was unconscious for sometime on mount sinai, maybe part of the reasons he was perceived as never coming back which prompted disbelief among the children of israel so much so that the chief od criminals among them commission the golden calf, a god or God they decided to worship. Did this calf as a god, God had a name? it must have. what do they call it? same name they call their God when Moses was with them?

reality is when you are sure of something and there is no need to say it is there, not reality, not sure of t, hence your hypothetical.

reality: One God. reality; many Angels. reality: many prophets.

fallacy: many God[s], like in trinity. this fallacy you are nursing it, trying to pass it as reality, by say hypothetical.
that is not right.

how is God human all of a sudden when He created man weak and He is strong, always?
why did He not say to Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc, even Moses that He will be human sometimes in the future so that all people could be forgiven.

Maybe pharaoh is forgiven, too or do you see the unfair advantage of human God dying for all people of the future whereas folks of the past; pharaoh do not have the same situation of human God death? today, we have christian pharaohs, jewish pharaohs, even muslim pharaohs.

see what your "ifs" have created?

Don't get it twisted, Allah is Satan and that's why you believe d bible is distorted but Quran is not. Satan/Allah want u to believe Quran came directly from God and began to torture d career with seizures so violent that he falls and rolls on d floor. That cannot be God.

you have not seen a person who suffer epileptic seizure. such a person will have no memory of the episode and or what happened in it.

so to say receiver of the Quran suffered such seizure, then he must have been a superior superman to remember all these details so much so that the Bible is pale to it.

and the igbo boy learned english even before he started living in england.
i guess when he struggled to learn english in nigeria, the queen of england, etc said to him, if you wanna be functional in nigeria,
you must master the english language.

inherently, igbos have a better language and richer than english.

why is a person abandoning igbo language, then opted for the younger and much lighter english.
yet he says arabic language that ties people together in spirituality should not be accorded the same need to learn it as his learning english.

Never will there be any intention to dictate to you or force you to do what you feel uncomfortable doing.
all i have done is to agitate your conscience to live a bit.

your case remind me of when i wanted to be a soldier because it was the in thing among young people.
my cousin was smart enough to put a dent on the idea, reminding me that there was no war that nigeria needed defense personalities on.

and i could defend nigeria in many other ways, academics and or wealth are defense options he mentioned.

he also told me about the possibility of being in the officers mess as some crazy ideas are being discussed and someone may count me part of it, even though was not even aware of any discussion.

i took his advise at the end and thank God i am here and not a 6 ft under, while i am just discovering islam now!

lets put a scenario in place: say you manage to keep this awful thing as your secret forever. you are now married to this muslim woman and you have children.

oh, there will be islamic ceremonies. what will you say about name and religion of your children from a devoted muslim mother and grandparents? no religion or you will continue to live a lie?

and the children are now learning to recite Quran. You are a wealthy surgeon and hajj time i here. the children are old enough to pray and they love it. You still have your parents until you are about 85 years old.

what are your rights over the rights of others that you continue to lie to them while you can just get it over with now?

bad news does not get better with time, if nothing is done to rectify the condition. what you would be doing is letting your lie eat up your heart until when they know, they say your are the most heartless person that ever walked the face of the earth. You will let a muslim woman marry a chronic kufar, without her having the choice to say yes or no in the deal. how different are you from the alfa who is telling her lies?

and by the way, i asked you to show me in either Quran or hadith where women are told that they are second class to men.

dr., you need to drop some benjanins in the box of any masjid of your choice for asking you to make your heart up instead of allowing it to sleep hard or sleep walking denying reality.
while you deserve to be happy, so do others who you are not telling the truth. they deserve much happiness that you deserve under the circumstances because you are the cause of the chaos that the effect will be worse the long you them not know who you truly are.

@Vemmawealth:

vemmawealth:

Some of us know who this your Allah is and d understanding of his personality only points at one thing. That Islam is a deception.

Allah is an arabic word meaning "the god" .The arabic word for God is not Allah. "illah" is the arabic word for God. That's why Muslims say " la illah ill Allah" meaning "there is no God but "the-god"

If islam is a deception, point to one religion for sure that is not a deception, if you are what you are talking about? I will be waiting to read your honest "truth".

And since Allah is the arabic word for "the god", could you write out for us the arabic word for "The God"?

And since "illah" is the Arabic word for God, could write out for us to see the Arabic word for "god"?

And could you write the arabic sentence meaning "there is no god but "The God", since "la illah ill Allah" s not it?

We want you to educate us, since you have the truth on Islam a well as the language of Arabic.

This woman, I am sure you will not truly answer any of these questions, standing up to anyone of them will be impossible, even for Christian palestinian "Anis Shorosh" who can't read Arabic Quran.


here is the video and for you a nigerian will have to better dr. shorosh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDt5nrJNbtg

@Mr_Anony:

by Mr_Anony(m): 6:16pm On Aug 02
An if is simply an if, Since hypothetical is a problem for you, I won't push it. Lets move on.

If I am a woman: That is impossible because I already a man and there is no way I will be able to become a woman, wiping off my life experience as a male, internal structure, etc, and my children calling me daddy, friends calling omo boy and my woman calling me bobo and mum and dad calling me son, etc. So, an if is not always an if when impossibility is so apparent.

The question is not about what befits but what you will do for love. If your son was dying and the only way to save him was to become a toddler, I am sure that you will not hesitate to do it because of the love you have for your child. God loves you even more. His love is limitless.

i will not become a toddler because i do not have the power to become a toddler or stop my son from dying. if i have the power to become a toddler, i definitely will have the power to stop my son from dying and it is easier and more logical to just stop the son from dying than to become a toddler and that will make my son not dying. even in economic scale of efficiency, it is more efficient to just stop my son right away instead of becoming a toddler first in order to stop him from dying after i am now a toddler.

My friend, this is the point I have been trying to get you to see all this time. God is God, He never changes but 'switching roles' so to speak does not negate Him being God in any way. In the same way the same woman is mother, daughter and wife and yet the same person.
It is until God's character changes then we can say that He has changed. God's nature remains the same forever irrespective of what form He manifests Himself to us in.

"switching role"? even you if you switch role, say with your younger siblings, allowing them to be big brothers and big sister for 10 minutes, you will not be the being that is big brother for that whole 10 minutes. so to say that God switching role will not negate His being God in any way is a fallacy. The woman is not the same functional person to her husband who will do husbanding thing with her, while she is the daughter of her parents who can never do any husbanding with her, while the husband never sees her as his daughter. and you know that her son does not have parental and husbanding right over her. By the way when she gets sick, its all her functional person[s] the wife of husband, mother of son and daughter of parent that get sick. mother of son does not get sick and wife of husband is healthy, and daughter of parents choosing to either be sick or not. it does not work that way. the 3 persons in the singular woman suffer the same fate. This remind me that if Jesus was truly God, and there is just One God in christianity, all of them in that One God concept would have suffered same condition[s]. As a matter of fact, when Yahweh sent him to die, Jesus and ghost participated in the sending. When Jesus prayed, all of them prayed. When Jesus was tortured, you guess it; all them got tortured. And of course the death thing would be same. If any survived without going through it as Jesus went through it, then Jesus and the others as One God is a definite fallacy. For God to become a human being, hence function like a human being, eating, drinking, sleeping, etc including going to the toilet is "complete Character change". If you think it is not, then what is and what will be "character changes", and how far shall Christian God go before you say "This is character change"?

Again I agree, love is God's inert character/ability. No one loves more perfectly. This is why I say that it shouldn't be beyond God to give up something for those He loves.

Why should God choose a manual labor and lowering Himself when He as the Owner of everything can just by command accomplish the same "Love for criminals and sinners" that He Loves? If there are many ways to do something, even humans by intelligence choose the easiest solution. I don't think you want to argue that God would more difficult part than what man will choose? The same God who did things in the most perfectly easy way of creating everything in just 6 days, will now choose 33 years process to end up death in order to forgive because He wants to show how He loves sinners, whereas Jesus said some christians will end up in lake of fire after all? Where can this convoluted process make sense? What society? What logic?

The feeling of being a father for the first time - ecstatic as it may be - doesn't automatically make you a perfect father. That's the point. You even made my point for me because when the other children start coming, you can handle their problems better.

are you a father of a child or more? maybe you should ask somebody who is a parent of children. and i said the other children become routine. And the first time doing something is the standard. i do not see where i made your point for you. And i didn't use the word "better", instead a routine and the first is the standard and later feeling and action can never surpass the first time.

long talk, the question was: what was Allah loving? He couldn't possibly have loved anything else before creation. Love is experiential, it is uncreated and for love to occur, there must be more than one entity.

A little boy who his parent see his handle as normal, they can safely say that when this boy becomes a man, he will definitely be a father there is nothing that will derail normality. A loving Entity, Who is a Creator {Allah] was a Creator before He created and was aware that He wlll shower His Loving quality of Love on the creations, later. Allah knows everything and knew everything of the future, even as He gave man free will. He knew those who will be evil and non repenting, ending up by their own action out of His Mercy on the Day of Judgment. The one who is loved experiences it while the one who loved him has it in him to love that person for whatever reason he loves him. I wonder how you think God Love as The Loving would the same or better? Allah loved Adam before Adam became human and Allah knew Iblis will be jealous of Adam so much so that Iblis will disobey Allah in bowing down to Adam. Allah is unlike the God that regrets, or discover the result after action. Allah knew the outcome before it even start.

You seem to really hate the word hypothetical

the way you are using it to fool the unsuspecting. you are not honest about your intention it seems, putting your words under your tongue.

I don't quite get what you disagree with here. All I said is that since God is perfectly Good as His character, He cannot be evil in any way. Evil that exists is a deviation from a perfect Good. A piece of cloth cannot be white and black at the same time. That's a stark contradiction.

the blind person will see white cloth as midnight black. Good God is One God. Many dismiss His existence. To them He may as well be evil because they blame all woes on Him, will they don't see any need for His existence, because the good to them is just by human effort, while they don't see evil as test and or human effort as well. Some make God to be animals, body parts, trees as nature [mother nature having power], human and or spirit. So people see God for Who He is in reality, or what they want Him to be or what the make of Him, them. But God is Who He says he is.

Quite alright, but do you agree that there is a difference between rights and character?

The Rights of Allah are in His Characters; Right of receiving true worship is in His Character of being Allah, Rabbi Alamin. His Character of Mercy is in His Right of allowing repenting man to receive His Forgiveness, Mercy. If the Character is not within His Right, there is fallacy introduced. The character of a husband and his right will never be the character of the wife and right of the wife. Husband do not have the character of getting pregnant for 9 months and the Right of motherhood or nursing. If you find any person being a wife and husband at the same time, for sure the society will say it is abnormal and definitely the 2 relations will not be to a single person. Allah can not have partner, becoming other than Allah at anytime, son of Allah, partner of Allah, Ghost, Ghost of Allah, then loving disobedient, disbelievers so much that He will allow them to punish Him and killed Him, while He is the same Allah Who created all, destroyed the people Noah, people of Lot, Pharaoh and his supporters, etc! It does not make sense, logically, morally or religiously. The sinner shall be punished for his sins, in justice or forgiven of it as in showing mercy.

Hopefully, I'll have time to discuss the Blood of Jesus in-depth.

Blood of Jesus. This is where we are going to have you be honest.

Now, about blood sacrifice,(By the way, I thought you believe the Torah to also be the word of God? There's a lot of blood sacrifice in it)

Some part of Torah that fits Quran. The rest I will not use it.

Ok so man sins, God is merciful enough to forgive but if God just forgives like that, He will not be just and thereby contradict his nature - because justice requires that a crime must be paid for.

So you now set the rule of Forgiveness for God, now? Which is worse; killing animal or killing man for the same purpose? What condition will make the life of man and animal be equal if you are to sacrifice them? And who says God can't forgive like that? Did God forgive Adam and his mate, Eve? Or God didnt forgive them? If they were forgiven, what did they sacrifice, considering that nothing was recorded as a ransom in your Bible? I say God forgave them like that and you cant anything about it. And if if sacrifice a trillion men, God will not accept it if He did not instruct you. And I do not see where God instructed any Jew for human sacrifice or where God said to Jesus sacrifice yourself or anything about killing an innocent person.

Christ dying on the cross is God paying the ultimate penalty.

Who did God pay that to? Who demanded from God? And what benefit does it have since Christ said in your Bible so many christians in spite of them believing in this death will be end up in lake of fire?

If a person now rejects the ultimate sacrifice, then the person must be perfectly good by himself else God will have no other choice than to carry out the wrath of judgment on such a person.

show me the proof from either from God Who sent Jesus or from Jesus who He sent. Please use OT and the words of Christ in red lettered Bible. No Paul, no johnny comes lately. Let God speak for Jesus and or let Jesus speak for himself.
Did Mary mother of Jesus accept her son as what you said? Please show me the acceptance of Mary.

you are the one who is bringing her and medicine up. remember? while i appreciate your academic effort, i do not appreciate you spirited and intentional deceit of your parents, your entire family, the foreign woman and even yourself. to lead people in prayer when you know that you are a 100% hypocritical about it, don't make you a good character.

i dont about you, every san in nigeria is superior to a new lawyer because of superior argument he will bring.
in the west, lawyers who win cases have superior mastery of the court, even can easily get the judge to dance to his tune; cochran and judge ito come to mind in oj simpson's double case. big corporations settle out of court very quickly when they see the lawyer representing the other side. superior argument shows that you think you are superior. and i say that you and the alfa that is lying to her are two sides of the same owo jebu 'bad coin/counterfeit'.

she in my opinion needs to get rid of both of you and use the brain and heart [mind] and wisdom to recognize the truth.

if this is the future of nigeria, you are a problem that is going to be more chronic in your time. islam loses nothing by not practice it and definitely Allah does not diminishes in Absolute Power or ceases to be God if you declare publicly that you an atheist. trust me, your parents will survive it; after all mum has to be in her 50s by now and her husband will not be younger than her.

there is no person i will hide my core belief from. i once was thrown into the mist of black american christian clergies. they spoke about their faith and raved about Jesus of the Bible while i waited quietly. but when they start their prayer and wanted me to come in with amen, i told them i am a muslim and they can do without this confirmed muslim.

i didn't care whose pet get gored and Allah is more what i was gain from them. if your parents can't candle the truth, maybe you are living a lie by taking their resources and feeding them sludge of dishonesty.

yoruba people are not as weak as you think and your young new age parents may actually admire your honesty, instead of acting macho on nl and a wimp at home. i brought in bidemi just to let you know there are muslim youth that can easily bump you from her and you haven't been able to tell her that you don't believe in the existence of Allah. when are you going to tell her; after nikah? wow.


you should easily get pretty atheist med student to marry because there must be one around the bend from you. why muslim woman for you when you are not a muslim? if the injunction against in the Quran not enough that you should at least respect her so that she marries a muslim like her?


uhmm. maybe there is something good about you and your parents who have been molded by islam from their parents have something to do with that good. evidently atheism did not bring you any good. if you are sure, list one good that you have now that you didnt have when you were muslim.

This recitation of surah Muhammad is for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0o2z3_aXo


this surah Rahman is for you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHgkscIdruc


this surah muminu is for you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBfJ4EOI714



this surah munafiqun is for you


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkfnjjTcIr8

I'm not burdened by atheism. Its very much unlike being gay or a murderer or things like that. I m perfectly content with living without disclosure. What good will it serve? This is why my parents will likely never know. What good will it serve to break their hearts? [b]Even if I'm correct[/b]if you are right you will come out clean, instead of being a pure hypocrite. when i was younger, and even now what i can do in front of people, i struggle against doing it all the time. let your people know where you stand and stop being a hypocrite.


[quote]I laff at my being a female secretary. I v never met any atheist in my life. A public atheist I mean. I had doubts before I reach Nairaland. I v also seen things that are somehow unexplained. A man turning into elephant in front of many people. Turns out to be a trick. Every one missed the 'turning'. Just saw the elephant. That was one of the arguments for spirituality I used for so many years.

the joke will be on you because people who depend on God will see your trick a mile away; humans dont turn to animals, especially not in the hand of man and Allah does not humiliate believers, who are usually humble before Him. magic, and magicians we laugh at them.

Since I cannot prove the non-existence of God same way I cannot prove the non-existence of sango or shiva or other things like that, I will have to admit a chance of them being real. That chance is the probability I gave. the hypothesis of a ineffable creator is what came up. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.

i can go to where they say shango is and use a wrecking ball to smash it to piece. I can incinerate it and it cant do anything to me. After death, Allah will judge. This is a big difference and you can overcome Allah as I can overcome shango.

You must realize the unimaginable power bestowed on God. This argument should not happen. God should be accessible like my lecturers.(My lecturers are NOT USUALLY accessible but still accessible).

your lecturer get sick, like the porter and cleaner in your school. He need food, jut like every human. Allah is different. I guess you know that already but prefer to pretend.

I know you will say prayer and all but this reality does not support it. What will happen will happen. Prayer or not.

prayer for you? You do not everything, but love to guess and think you do. i used to like you. but that was then. i think as the yorubas say, to me oti gun igi koja ewe. until you find your way backward to safety, you are just not on my mind.

The medical student thing is a very bad attack. I have never claim to be superior to anybody. Never.

At the bold are you for real?

I have intentions of marrying a foreign colleague of mine. A muslimah of impeccable repute. After all this time, she still maintained her islamic ethics and lifestyle. But, despite her intelligence, she has been so brainwashed, she believed she's inferior to the male folks. She says this with full convictions. Her Alfa explained how the female are evil and should therefore be suppressed.( We both know he's not lying,scripturally). Despite my subtle infusion of doubts into her, she's not budging. I hope to convince her with a overt and superior argument soon when I have nothing to lose.

do you see superior from you, in the bold? I wonder what it means "when i have nothing to lose"? care to explain?

My professor exists,BTW. That's the point.

from where i am, your professor does not exist. I do not have a single thing to show me he exists. By the way what do you mean when you say professor? Whats a professor to you? See how easy it is to deny, and my denial of your professor is legitimate since i will not need anything he has control of, including the service of anyone he taught a thing. Amin.

But you, you live on earth of Allah and you even hypocritically make salah to Him? Do you stand, bow and prostrate? Do you make ablution? Or you just enter salah without purity of body, we already know what you say the state of your heart is.

Moreover, the evidence you claim for God are, I'm sorry, not evidence at all.

what evidence do you want; that i bring Allah to you so that you are satisfied? Allah said if angels dwell on earth, He would have sent angels as messengers when some disbelievers said why don't God send angels instead men?

The girl I'm talking about is a very good person. I will not allow you to malign her here.

how am i maligning this woman from what i have written?

She's a muslim. A very good one by any standards.

then somebody need to remind her that disbelief and belief do not co exist. if she could not marry a christian why is she a denier of existence of Allah?

I v not been able to convince her. Her defense are usually vehement. I even think I will accept her like that, muslim or not.

i hope she reads the bold and imagine her position when there are nigerian muslim medical students in nigeria or even in the country she resides? are there no muslim medical students in er country that she is sticking with nigerian athesist? is being a spouse of a doctor that important when faith in God is non existence?


[quoteSee, I'm atheist only online. I just finished leading a few people in Asri prayer.[/quote]you are a munafiq, wont you say? Allah knows your state of affairs. About ramadhan? Subhannallah. definitely your parents are not aware of your hypocrisy? Am sure they will be disappointed, yet you are not ashamed to pretend in front of Allah? What do you think when you enter salah; oh avinneca you are a fake or?

So I'm the one she can hang around with. It is not her fault. I'm in love with her. I want to marry her. That's what I will lose!!!!!

You are a class all by yourself and i hope a genuine guy walks to her life so that she can dump you. If I know where she is, I will send Bidemi to her. He is like 6/4 and he is in UI.

@Avicenna:

by Avicenna: 5:04pm
^what an epistle smiley

I cannot prove the non-existence of God. I deduce his non-existence by his absence.

so you do not know for certain yet you deny existence of God?

You said the expansion of the universe is a proof for God. You cannot prove this. Physicists who gave us that cannot claim they know as of yet.

concerning the bold, below is what you said, yesterday about science, which physics is part of.

Let me be clear here, science gives you certain logic and reason. This things have tested and accepted to be true. Reality supports it.

I will simple say that you are not even sure of what science is saying, definitely not in all branches of science.

I can safely say that Quran says the universe is expanding meaning there is outward directional movement whereby new distance is reached in the vast space. If an unlettered man is accurate while science in this modern day is still struggling with the knowledge of if the universe is expanding, then God is proven by providing this information to Muhammad [as] over 14 centuries ago.


"...We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).... " (Surah 51:47). Pickthal
"...We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.... " (Surah 51:47).

and there will be a time the expansion will end and the universe will begin to collapse as it is reverses direction of movement

That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)

usisky: how many rakat you have in each of the daily salat using Quran alone without the explanation of Muhammad [sa] in the hadith?

Then tell me how to perform Hajj, the id prayers, and what does Allah mean when He says accept what Messenger gives and reject what he prohibits you?

When Allah says do not raise your voice over the voice of the messenger, what does that mean?

These are just a few items which you need to provide answers to.

2Avicenna:

by Avicenna: 12:36am

I am an atheist because there is no evidence for God.

I am a theist because there is evidence for God; He is beyond the heavens. And heavens are above and beyond the distance that the expanding universe will ever reach before it can not expand further and begins to collapse. What you called "no evidence" is therefore denial based on personal theory or mere copycatting or other people's reasons and ungrounded hypothesis, including laziness to conform or rebellious attitude directed to the fact that you have it in your mind the verdict for your action is not going to be immediate. I bet you couldn't take the same position and attitude about your professor [a physical being subject to human weaknesses] or your academics, an idea which is less than ideal irrespective of its specialization. The burden of proof is on the one who accuses or denies in this case. I see the vast universe, the earth i reside and within it myself, even in myself, i have plenty of evidence that God exist.

Not because I'm a medical student. As far as I can see majority of my colleagues are theists(tho,you never know, no one knows about my atheism).

You so sure of your belief that you hide your disbelief. This is hypocrisy. I bet mum and dad are not aware, but only us your internet buddies? You remind me of another person who when he gets to his christian cousins, he is christians, when he is with his muslim cousins, he is muslim, yet in reality he is an atheist also on nairaland. I guess nairaland is a cheap way to be yourself for atheists.

I have intentions of marrying a foreign colleague of mine. A muslimah of impeccable repute.

Foreign as far as togo or as near as "new zealand"? Let me say something to you; Anything goes in africa and arabs in the west. the first because she can't truly discover herself and the other she woke up in a strange place far away from the oppressive ignorant nationalistic patriarch. Try it muslim whites, african america, spanish in the west and even african in the west. They will not give you the time of the day. Ask christian toba and he will tell you what nairaland muslim ladies are saying to him. And we have pretty yoruba medical student among them.

After all this time, she still maintained her islamic ethics and lifestyle.

If she knew a core thing about islam, you would not be a man she is talk to and then thinking of marrying you? Where is her moral compass; do light and darkness occur in the same space together? No.

But, despite her intelligence, she has been so brainwashed, she believed she's inferior to the male folks.

Quran does not preach inferiority of any gender and to simple state the fact that men are higher than women in degree of strength is an obvious through. Even you on her is working your mojo on her because she is a woman. After all, you can say your medical education is superior to her medical education. You are both student doctors. Why don't you tell her to convince you that you are wrong to reject reason, when you have no hard evidence of how the expanding worlds came to existence? A nigerian who was not alive in 1970 can't actually tell you how his mother felt on January 13 and the exact spot the mother was standing at 12.16 pm. Imagine then theorizing about what happened when no human was alive?

She says this with full convictions.

She needs to read the Quran for herself and study the hadith and stop listening to both you and her Alfa to know the truth. Both of you are materials of both cloth, just reserve sides.

Her Alfa explained how the female are evil and should therefore be suppressed.( We both know he's not lying,[/b]scripturally).

I disagree with you and her Alfa and then I ask myself while will she not be able to read about this and see how erroneous the "Alfa" is? IS the lazy to do it while she buries herself in medicine, and allows you and the Alfa to lie to her? Alfa is a west african thing. I never heard it among the arabs and people in the west who are not from west africa. and [b]i dont where women are said to be spiritually evil. You may know, so point it out to me and damn Islam if you can.
came

Despite my subtle infusion of doubts into her, she's not budging. I hope to convince her with a overt and superior argument soon when I have nothing to lose.

What do you have to lose now? and if she is sleeping with you, there is the reason she does not know that she can do research to know what truly Islam says. Superior you say? I am satisfied that both you and the Alfa are taking advantage of her laziness. Its unfortunate that you are leading her away from the light just as the Alfa is blinding her, too. You may ask her to reach out to me, if she needs encouragement to listen to your "superior" argument and verify what the Alfa is saying. By the way, I do not have an alfa. And this is throughout my life and I believe I must be closing to spending 1/3 if not more.

I told this story because it doesn't matter where those students you mentioned are.

Nouman Khan was an atheist as he was growing up in New York. He is a contemporary muslim scholar, commentator, today. So was irreligious Shabir Ally before returned to islam. I wonder the score of Muslim intellectuals, specifically in medicine who did not come from Islamic back ground and became muslims right here in the west; professors of medicine are greater than medical students by a mile, at least until the student becomes a licensed doctor. What will lead a white american military officer to become muslim after 9/11, while people like you deny God altogether? And they say america are the ones who have the greatest freedom of thoughts? They have to meet people like you to recalibrate that statement.

Once the effect of years of brainwashing takes hold, there's almost nowhere it cannot be exhibited.

So who brainwashed these americans? Not the Quran they never knew existed? Not the arabs? Most of these people felt nation of islam was it when you talk about islam until after 9/11. Just few days ago I was reciting Quran and a phone call came in. I picked up and continued to recite till the end of the verse. When I spoke, a spanish person in spain asked what was that beautiful song i was singing to my baby. I laughed and told her it was not a song, but Quran recitation. In short, I played for her to listen to sheikh Abubakr Shatri's Surah Muminuu on Youtube. She asked if she can get a Quran in spanish because she wants to understand what it means. I have encouraged her to go a mosque in her city. You see, there is no one that is brainwashing and I have not asked her a thing about it. Same was Dr. Price in Akron Ohio, a philanthropist doing good work in black community. Allah says do you see those who take their intellect as their Lord [these people reject God based on "knowledge"].

Loneliness also play a role. My foreign colleague found solace in the MSSN.

There was no MSSN in my school. in fact most arab students shun Islam because of what they found in the west. Even women from Turkey were going for christian boys. Thank God because some of them might have returned to Islam, since they would have realized that no one will be youth forever and the grave calls the future occupant, daily. Until you visit the graveyards says Allah in Surah Takathur.

Other theists may also find whatever they were searching for in that organization. To me, it is not a case for the existence of God. Its just a bunch of people finding closure to emotional problems.

if people have the right to abandon God, the wealthy westerners have it much more prosperously than students in africa. yet its these people who are now becoming more religious, while the africans are discovering there is no God! this trend is similar to whats happening in harlem and some sections of brooklyn the wealthy young whites are renting and buying up these places, realizing its close proximity to midtown, rather than the suburb villages and towns. I am grateful that God opened by eyes to His Signs, visible in myself and my environment.

As for old age, I hope to get there. Let me feel the experience. Let me wish to be young again. It is only human. Who knows, we may be able to live forever soon.

You think you can cheat death? Discover all cures, even for aging. Then a person gets eating by wild animal, or crushed to pancake. How do you build him back you and make him escape death? I pray we all stay alive to become over 100 years old. Then what, seeing even young people die and some die in the womb, if not aborted, first? Or you are pro life, too since you do not believe in God, what will be your moral compass for being a pro lifer?

Science helps. I don't like the way you are being condescending to science

I know a thing or two of allied science, so I earn the right to discuss science from my view point, religion.

All what you listed as impossibilities may soon be done in our lifetime.

And then a deadly disease will waste up more lives as hiv-aids has done for 30 years without finding a cure. How about cancers? Even others? This is a case of at the end chasing a rainbow.

Who knows, it may even be me that will do such things.

I wish you are the person. Nigeria needs good researchers and inventors. Note that as you are leaving the University, you will definitely be getting older from the pressure of your practice and wanting to discover the cures or ultimate cure for all the diseases. You will grey and wrinkle some. Allah has put in your system aging and death catalysts. They will function as my Lord has ordered them.

Let me be clear here, science gives you certain logic and reason.

And there a tons of things that science will not know; what will be the farthest that universe before it can not expand any more? Behind the infinity, there is the closest side of the the heavens and the universe will never get there. Thats reality, unlike mere hypothesis.

This things have tested and accepted to be true.

The brain of humans is more reliable that the most sophisticated computer that will ever be design; the brain functions for a lifetime; some, over 100 years. It is automatic, while the computer has to be turned on and it will last 10 years before it burns out or a bigger mode make yesterday's last model worthless. And what is accepted today may be rejected tomorrow with better process. Science, is not an absolute and even medicine is not an exact science. So your thinking here is only temporary.

Reality supports it. I see no reason why I should make a exception for God. Science disproves God.

Science does not disprove God, the reason better scientists stand firm in faith that God exist. And your reality of today is possibly something to laugh about like the earth is flat of yesteryear. Science is not always absolute, otherwise, tylenol would have been the medicine that cures all headache instead of mere relief.

Unlike you, I'm not satisfied. I have nothing to lose.

You may have plenty to lose if God does exist and punishes disbelief in Him. I guess you will find out or you will re-track your steps before certainty comes to you.

I incredibly thankful( to what you may ask) to my parents. They taught me to think for myself( unfortunate, they did not foresee my atheism) and gave all that is necessary to survive this harsh world.

You do have their genes and somewhat of their qualities? You may therefore unfortunately not foresee that God does exist presently. Just like they were not absolute sure you will turn out this way, you are not absolutely sure that God does not exist. If you know, you would have given us the absolute evidence, instead of "I can not see Him so I don't believe He exist", or other subjective opinions.

But, why? For what? Why was I even born to them? There's no reason behind it once you dump religious notions.

Leave religion out of it and concentrate on sexua.l aspect of marriage. You have your answer, future MD. I guess even the logic you have been trumping against God did not let you know that se.x between fertile woman and virile will result in pregnancy towards having a baby.

Nothing seems to make sense. Everything is random and chaotic.

What?! You sound like a person who is giving up hope. I hope you are not considering that in your body you see superior order of arrangement and nothing is chaotic or placed without a purpose. This morning I woke up thinking why are some people ridiculously tall while others are ridiculously short, considering that both have same hormones, both in different levels? I then looked at my fingers The thumb is different and shaped different. If all the fingers are equal, will there be optimum efficiency in grip/grabbing? The answer is no since 6, 7, 8 or more fingers on a hand will not make the hand function better, just as less than 5 fingers shows some disadvantage. There is a message in this, and every hand needs a thumb.

There IS NO purpose except to continue this specie.

and at a time this specie will die off; water, wind, dust, fire or even lack of foods or other[s] can cause this specie to extinct. It started, some time from somewhere. It will definitely end sometime in the future and you and i may not see it because are already long gone.

I do not completely disagree with the notion of a ineffable creator. I hold nothing to be absolutely true. But the religious Gods I'm 100% convinced do not exist.

Believing in some "creator" but 100% convince that there is no Allah, since I am a muslim? How do you proof your 100% conviction? Give reasons that are irrefutable instead of grinding stop in mere probability. I can probably say you are only a person expressing the thought of somebody you work for as a secretary. Even a female secretary. proof me wrong as I will want you to give argument against the existence of God. The burden of proof is upon the denier and you have denied God of religion. In the thread that noticed your atheist position, you said you abandon God along with religion. Are you taking up God now Who you called Ineffable Creator?

the religious house negro might actually be the op.
house negro plays to the gallery of the master, trying to satisfy him thinking he will be favored.
while he is doing this, he is made to squeal like a pig, always against others.

he is made to dress like a buffoon and while he does not aspire only to satisfy man, the master of the house.


But God is above Man the house negro worships.

it is master that the brain of the house negro.

come to think of it, atheist worship their intellect, while we the theists worship God Who is above all, including the master of the house negro.

The poster ^^^

Since we are talking about source, can you explain to me where God was before he created the Heavens and the earth as claimed by Genesis 1vs1. As God created the earth, e be like say darkness and water according to your bible na "follow come" cos there was no explanation as to how they came about. Stop confusing yourself Mr.

Your wrong assumption here about me, is very comforting because I do know that you are completely wrong in your thoughts about "God". I am a muslim, and your Lord Who you can not see is 100% your Creator and decides your ultimate outcome. He is the Lord of your fore bearers and little do you know about their condition in the grave. It is when one dies that the deniers will know God exist.

You can go to Seun because he is next door to you. Can you go to the sun that you see? How can you expect God Who makes the sun glows be visible to you? Aliens you can't see and you haven't spoken to every human. Yet they are under the heavens.

And before creation where God was was not what He created. And even now, He is not within what He created, but separate and beyond it: God is beyond heavens. You should pick up a copy of Quran and read it. And Mum and Dad depend on God. Ask them or ask grandparents or great grandparents or great great grandparents before atheism crept in. And according to you, you depend on mum and dad.

When your hairs are greying and your eyesight need spectacles and your energy level is not as great as that of a teenager, let me know how you are becoming older, especially when no one wishes to be old and withering.

@rhymz:

rhymz(m): 9:26pm On Jul 31

Sweetnecta: @Avicenna: it is interesting that many medical students who are muslims are on nairaland. a young woman from yorubaland studying medicine overseas have not found reason to say God does not exist, yet. oh. i forgot, its her tradition since she comes from a muslim bloodline and regardless of being allowed to be overseas alone without her parents is not good reason to say that she has not found the knowledge, yet. she is probably a muslim for her parents. yet she is a lioness in her zeal for Islam, religion that medicine has not debunk,yet in her mind.

but wait a minute. i personally know of igbo young medical student woman in philadelphia. she is the first in her family to be muslim. her parents are doctors too in minnesota and she is still unmarried so we can not say she became muslim for any man! in america, we see people, educated and lay persons coming to islam by truckloads. i wonder what knowledge the lack for coming to islam?

Science has not been able to explain everything and will never be able to in the whole length of time human will be on earth, otherwise knowledge would be already complete or soon to be complete under the sun, under the heavens.

50 years ago hiv-aids was not known, or least imagined. lets make it 100 years because that is a better figure. the cure for it is not found, yet. cancer that has been around longer do not have cure for each, yet. how about bacteria/virus that can kill man in a span of little time after entering the human body? has medicine found prevention for it?

The God that some are denying is the Creator and Allah says in the Glorious Quran that some have taken their intellect as their object of worship. Allah further states that He has allowed satan to control the disbelievers. We see how arrogance pharaoh was and it was the stick in the hand of Moses [as] that Allah used for his doom. and today, we see pharaoh being seen lying lifeless far from when he was the arrogant ruler of Nubian Egypt declaring himself as God and under whose command the nile flows northward, being the only body of water that does this.

We need to rethink and realize that we get older everyday and we can not control mere aging that is happening to us. I am sure i would have love to be 25, for ever. ok. 33 or there about. but that is not going to happen and sooner or later my time on earth will be over. so is everyone. what happened to us then? this is a big question that science does not have true answer for, except the obvious; decaying. This is such a simple answer that can never satisfy the complexity of our end, considering how complex our living has been on this earth.

Let us mind ourselves and asked if we are not just plain wrong about our origin, origin of others, even the whole known and the possibly unknown things in our universe. How possible can these originated by random chance? Can there be an equally chance that there is a Source that brought them to being and because we do not see that source, we simply say it should all be chalked up to random chance?

I am satisfied that God exist. How satisfied are you that He does not, hence you exist by random chance, especially when you see mum being the wife of dad the husband?

there is too much religious make belief gibberish in your head that you need to off-load if you want to know the truth. I can understand inhibitions occassioned by the long, constant religious indoctrination you have been subjected to but if you allow yourself to ask common simple questions they don't want you to ask, you will realize the folly of long held religious beliefs. Please stop writing the nonsense you have up there biko, it defiles both spiritual and common sense.

Point to one religious make belief in all that I wrote. Just one. I know you don't see me. But you believe I exist because Seun has organized a stage that we share. You have never seen Seun in your life. Neither have I. We both agree that he exists because of Nairaland, the stage he owns and we accept his name as Seun, because that is what he said he is; a male, owner of nairaland. But you will not accept that God exists, even though you live in the earth He says He created, taking in the air He says He created, eating and drinking and surviving on the food He says He created; all of them, both solid and liquid foods you obviously can't produce and have no ability to get to the true origin or source of these means of your staying alive. Yet, daily you get older and you have no concern or conscience about God, but what you do is continually deny "God".

Spiritual sense and you said there is no God.
Common sense and you do accept that you have a "Source", Causer that made you come alive.
Your case is "wow".

you sound so immature that you might actually be a spoiled brat.
you need to grow up because mum and dad will not be in england or around you for the rest of your life.

amazing that you have a woman interested in a personality such as yours.

let me let you wallow up in mud of ignorance.

i see why many ignore you and think you are a joke.

anyone would have seen that more responsibility/law is put upon Muhammad, in salah and on marriage it is a on a political purpose and within a restricted window. Muhammad [sa] suffered more than any muslim of his time onward, and every prophet and his community before Muhammad [as to each prophet].

the condition of the messenger [sa] is different from that of the general muslims.

for example, he was commanded to make nightly prayers.
muslims can but not as it is in the case of the messenger which is a must.

so his condition with marriage though politically is different in conditions to the general muslims who are limited to 4 at the same time but can continue to divorce and marry throughout life as long it is not more that 4 at anytime.

Muhammad [sa] was told in surah azhab, if all his wives were die or divorce from him, no more wife. so he could have been without a wife at the time of death, whereas the general muslims can have 4 wives at the time of death.

Muhammad [sa] would not charity, but gifts, whereas the general muslims can eat charity.

Muhammad's position is special and its a good thing and the allowance for him on marriage brought success and political victory, alliances and peace to the young and growing community.

@ Frosbel:

by frosbel(m): 4:49pm On Jul 30

You don't want to start again with me, trust me grin

how sincere are you? You have absolute proof that Jesus son of Mary is God? Do you?
You have absolute proof that Holy Ghost is God? Do you?
You have absolute proof that Yahweh is sitting and there are left and right sides to take in others who would be seated? Do you?

You will have problem proving thst sll of the 3 fit nicely and absolute in 1 God, as if each is 1/3 or the out of adding them together make the 1 God that is gotten is a true 1 God, more than each of them. And we know if you good on top of good, you get better.

Please walk away, because can't possibly defend the above and others that I will put forward to overwhelm you, Allah Willing.

Anony(m): 8:21am

The question posed was a hypothetical question which was used in an attempt to ascertain God's loving nature. You have deliberately chosen to sidestep it. Note it is an "if" question.

You continue to harp on "hypothetical when you know that God is Absolute and The True Reality. Are you sincere in this your effort of turning truth to maybe, if?

"I know full well that God cannot die but if God could die would he love us enough to die for us?"

If you feel uncomfortable answering this question, it is either you are afraid that you will have to admit that hypothetically he could or you are afraid that by answering it at all(even hypothetically), you will be somehow blaspheming. The both I believe to be true, the latter more so but we will get to that in a bit later.

If the bold is what you are driving at, then let me say that even me will never be a 10 year old again because it is beneath me and does not befit my age quality now. The other aspect of my truth is that I will never be a woman because it does not fit my nature. In the light of what I say about myself, it is inferior to use them to illustrate the position of God, but it is the best that I can come up based on my limit as a person. It does not fit God Who creates death and commands it on creations so that their earthly qualities can be graded will put Himself in the same condition. Death itself will have to die when Allah commands it to do so. It is beneath Allah to die. What reason and who will be the One that does not die?

The problem however is that your reluctance to answer the question puts a limit to Allah's love in my mind. I cannot ascribe perfect love to him if by nature of his being almighty, he is incapable of showing it. I'll leave it at that and I won't push it much further.

Now I want you to notice something here; I assumed that Allah created love and you corrected me that he is the owner of love i.e. love is one of his characteristics. My contention now is that no one can exhibit perfect love and then switch it off and exhibit perfect hate. This is a contradiction of personality. The only way this is possible is if the person creates both love and hate i.e. they are subject to him in which case they will not be his attributes but properties he creates at which point the being cannot be said to be loving.

To a believer God will show Perfect Love and to a disbeliever God will show perfect hate on the Day of Assembly, if He wishes. Humans switch roles all the time. A mother becomes a wife to her husband. The same mother is the daughter of her parents, which is the mother of the child. Each role has its nature and it will be abnormal for the woman to be the mother or daughter of her husband or wife or mother of her parents or daughter or wife of her child.

So I am confused here, you cannot have it both ways it is either love is a creation of Allah or it is his character. Unique as he may be, he cannot contradict his personality else he nullifies himself. If you truly believe that because Allah is unique, he can exhibit perfect love and perfect hate, then you must agree that he can equally exhibit perfect immortality and perfect mortality if he chooses to (and I know you don't agree to this). The reason I wanted to start by having you guys list Allah's attributes was so that I can follow your premises logically and not attack strawmen.

Is Allah being the Creator is created by Allah? If Allah being The Merciful is not created by Allah, then being the Loving which has the greatest of love ability is not created by Allah, but His Ability, Character and it is inert in Him to do so. Or do you know any that loves more perfectly ad if he or she grow to reach that perfect love level?

Good answer, now my little contention. Remember we are talking about perfect love. A man who becomes a father for the first time cannot be a perfect father because he is totally inexperienced. Perfection follows from prior experience. You cannot know the taste of chicken if you have never tasted it before.

Human perspective. When you become a father, let me know. The filling of being a father for the first time is the greatest and other birth after the first does not surpass the first. While as a human you try being the best father for the first time, it is not as exciting when the other children come along, it becomes a routine, now. Fever of the first child cause panic. Fever of others, you know it will pass, so you give her tylenol, and wipe her with wet cool cloth to take the heat. And the first time you do something, it becomes the standard; the taste of the chicken becomes the standard to judge other chicken. This is the reason mum's cooking is the best, for me. And if mum is pretty, she becomes something to set as which woman to marry.

Now if the first time Allah loved was at the onset of creation, then love was a new experience to him hence he cannot have perfect love. The only way it is possible for him to have perfect love is if he created love but this would mean that he is not loving by nature but love is something he produced from himself which would in turn mean that he cannot be selfless and has blessed human beings with a quality he doesn't possess. You see your dilemma?

You are double talking on the love and loving. Allah before He created anything, he was the Creator and was at the Highest standard of ability to create. Hence before He created anything that he showed love upon, He was The Loving and reached the Highest Standard of Loving in Ability to love Perfectly. Allah is unlike others who regrets and get pained after they see what they have created disobeying them. Allah knew Iblis will reject order, knew Adam and Eve will approach the tree and created hell and Paradise knowing that children of Adam will die and enter many the former, some the latter. I pray we all enter the Latter. You can not use your human knowledge which is limited to classify Allah. In the Quran, Allah says He will repeat creation and judge man saying this so that human mind can wrap it up when He says the recreation is easy, since He has created it even without example in easiness. It is similar when He says the sun rises and sets, because without going to space, what we see on earth, on the surface of the earth is that the sun rises and sets.

Well said, I have let go of that hypothetical question but remember, leaving that question unanswered leaves many knots untied and takes us further and further away from a meaningful conclusion.

You seem wanna play on words, using hypothetical, when you know that reality is the proper word. God is not changing and man does. God is in control and man is not.

I follow what you are saying and I agree that God has the right to do and undo if He chooses and we are nothing to question Him. All I am saying - and I believe you will agree - is that God has a definite character from which He must not contradict. For instance if I say God is perfectly good, it means that God cannot be perfectly evil. If God exhibits both characters, then He is neither good nor evil. We are not arguing about God's rights but His character

while you and i agree on the first 2 bold, i wonder you continue to question God, trying to define Him. And to a criminal, disbeliever, and we have seem many of them who say God is evil, in a way that it connotes perfect evil you seem to indicate above. these criminals say that because they ask why is God allowing something they see from their human level as bad, while the ignore all the good that they enjoy without the real merit for it. How hardworking can a person be when he makes 10 million pounds as profit per day, while others who toll harder by shear muscle and even brain along side him make much less? God does what He wants and in each of His action of command, He does not become less that the Authority, The Creator.

I like when you say that God does not fluctuate. The problem now lies in when you say that a God who is most-holy will tolerate unholiness because He is merciful and then punish unholiness because he is just. This shows a fluctuating God, If you agree to this, then I fail to see why you don't agree that an all-powerful God also has the right to choose to limit His power and allow himself to be seemingly powerless momentarily.
Note, I am not saying that God does not have such rights, all I am saying is that God's character must be steadfast. There must be a way to reconcile God's character with his rights; this you have not shown.

The way of God is clear and direct without ambiguity. God allows sinners to repent and when He forgives the repentant, it is Mercy. If sinner refuses to repent and even those who are not sinful become arrogant and prideful, God may punish them both in Justice for being unrepentant and for having pride, and Pride belongs to God alone. One God should have Pride and there is no meekness about Him. God tells us His Characters and His Rights; His Characters are unique to Him, alone and His Rights over us is that do not violate His Rights by ascribing it to ourselves or any other or dismissing each of them. His Right is that we should worship Him, alone and do not associate any with Him. He also by Himself guarantee us rights upon Him, that we should not loose hope of His Mercy, Characters and while He knows that we will make mistakes if we repent, He will accept our sincere repentance.

We will talk about trinity and blood sacrifice in due time. I will answer in due time but I want us to work out the exact character of God first then we will move on to whether it contradicts God's nature or not. If you can explain God's nature such that it is non-contradictory, then I'll let it be and we may just have to do away with trinity.

A few small misconceptions I want to clear are 1. I don't know of God frowning upon the killing of animals and 2. The three "entities" are not God each, are not parts of God but God (singular). I don't believe in 3 gods, I believe in one God.

For now let's not jump the gun let's keep working step by step.

The Nature is Perfect and He has revealed enough to man so that can know Him within the freedom of freewill man has. And to the bold, when God rejects something, an idea, its is as if He frowned against it [thievery; God frowns against thieft]. it was needlessness of animal blood of the jews that the same christian jews, eg paul proposed that human blood once and for all covers the animalsssssssssss. In the case of the jews, the animal blood stops the sin committed but not stop one from committing future sins, wherein another animal will be needed in the future. Is the blood of the human better because obviously it has not stopped the sins of the future so much so that the said man says his followers are vipers, adulterous, fools, etc and says he will reject even those great miracle workers by denying knowing them. Such human sacrifice is similar to panic Inca, etc because if there is value in it, it was temporary and not permanent. Of course i dont believe in the said human sacrifice and it is obvious that it is a silly concept considering God is Able to simply forgive, being The Judge over all the Laws.

@PAGAN 9JA(m): 9:55am

i have an answer to your last sentence. first of all, it has been programmed into the heads of muslims that "MAN" (i mean it literally), is over and above all other creature, including women. So they believe that if a woman marries outside her religion, she will be converted as a result they will have one less minnion.

now if the man marries outside, he will convert the wife (that is obligatory), and they will have one more minnion.

there are groups he can not marry; idol worshipers and atheists. and no, it is not obligatory to convert anyone because if the heart does not get converted, then what you have is hypocrisy and who needs a mate to be a hypocrite? and man is accepted to be over woman by strength, in normal condition and often the one who works to provide finance in the relationship. often is always because i dont want anyone to say i am not telling the truth. But in all other aspects man and woman have equal right and they better each other based on personal efforts, alone.

basically to put things, short, they are so desperate to gain converts that they will stoop to any low. just like christian missionaries in SOuth and South East Asia, who are handing impoverished tribals food and money in return to gain converts. and what they did in the americas, by handing tirbals alcohol to make them addicted and then stop the supply temporarily, unless they agree to convert.

mr. pagan, you want me and all yorubas to be pagans, no? you want all igbos and atheist logicbwoy to become pagans, no? you want all northern people to be pagans no? in short, you want everyone on earth to become pagans, no? what makes you different from the people you are criticizing except that you worship what you make with your own hands? Please!

and have you heard of the new tactics used by muslims in Indiahuh it is called "love jihad", where muslim boys lure young Hindu girls with cheap perfumes, etc., the get from relatives in the middle-east and then they r.ape or bribe them and then end-up connverting them. [/b]you can read articles about this online.

cheap perfume? india produces the best perfumes; fancy bucket, magmuas, huuds, etc. and whoever ra.pes do not follow islam.



@Logicbwoy: 10:59am

[b]The love Jihad is an unproven allegation in India. However, there exists islamists in india who want islam to gain a huge control in india

The bold is the only honest thing that ha came from your post as far as I have seen. Every group wants success in increase of adherents. Even the atheist you is struggling to recruit here. and i have seen your comrades struggling to gain people into your fold. what is the difference between you and us and even the pagan guy wants everyone to be animists like him.

However, I agree with your point that women are seen as inferior in islam.

The first group to honor and elevate woman and womanhood is Islam. If muslims dont honor women, its because the muslim men are not obeying the rule in Islam about women. While atheist can sleep with a woman, islam forbids it. while judaism think women are not be in bed with the husbands, islam does not encourage something like that. while christianity forbids woman fro speaking, Islam gives woman voice and right to own, share and even initiate divorce and also ability to marry whosoever she wishes.

@PAGAN 9JA(m): 9:55am

i have an answer to your last sentence. first of all, it has been programmed into the heads of muslims that "MAN" (i mean it literally), is over and above all other creature, including women. So they believe that if a woman marries outside her religion, she will be converted as a result they will have one less minnion.

now if the man marries outside, he will convert the wife (that is obligatory), and they will have one more minnion.

there are groups he can not marry; idol worshipers and atheists. and no, it is not obligatory to convert anyone because if the heart does not get converted, then what you have is hypocrisy and who needs a mate to be a hypocrite? and man is accepted to be over woman by strength, in normal condition and often the one who works to provide finance in the relationship. often is always because i dont want anyone to say i am not telling the truth. But in all other aspects man and woman have equal right and they better each other based on personal efforts, alone.

basically to put things, short, they are so desperate to gain converts that they will stoop to any low. just like christian missionaries in SOuth and South East Asia, who are handing impoverished tribals food and money in return to gain converts. and what they did in the americas, by handing tirbals alcohol to make them addicted and then stop the supply temporarily, unless they agree to convert.

mr. pagan, you want me and all yorubas to be pagans, no? you want all igbos and atheist logicbwoy to become pagans, no? you want all northern people to be pagans no? in short, you want everyone on earth to become pagans, no? what makes you different from the people you are criticizing except that you worship what you make with your own hands? Please!

and have you heard of the new tactics used by muslims in Indiahuh it is called "love jihad", where muslim boys lure young Hindu girls with cheap perfumes, etc., the get from relatives in the middle-east and then they r.ape or bribe them and then end-up connverting them. [/b]you can read articles about this online.

cheap perfume? india produces the best perfumes; fancy bucket, magmuas, huuds, etc. and whoever ra.pes do not follow islam.



@Logicbwoy: 10:59am

[b]The love Jihad is an unproven allegation in India. However, there exists islamists in india who want islam to gain a huge control in india

The bold is the only honest thing that ha came from your post as far as I have seen. Every group wants success in increase of adherents. Even the atheist you is struggling to recruit here. and i have seen your comrades struggling to gain people into your fold. what is the difference between you and us and even the pagan guy wants everyone to be animists like him.

However, I agree with your point that women are seen as inferior in islam.

The first group to honor and elevate woman and womanhood is Islam. If muslims dont honor women, its because the muslim men are not obeying the rule in Islam about women. While atheist can sleep with a woman, islam forbids it. while judaism think women are not be in bed with the husbands, islam does not encourage something like that. while christianity forbids woman fro speaking, Islam gives woman voice and right to own, share and even initiate divorce and also ability to marry whosoever she wishes.

@Logicbwoy:

9:51pm On Jul 31 The very first human beings were not muslims, nor were they Jews.

First human beings or first human being? Adam [as] is the first human being. Name your first human beings if you are knowledgeable and watch your own conscience tell you that you are deceiving yourself.
Adam obeyed the laws of Allah. And when he disobeyed the commandment he disobeyed, he repented and his repentance was accepted. What he was inspired to repent with is a prayer seeking forgiveness and guidance and you will find it in the Quran! we already know that jews were disobedient folks and did not come into existence until after Jacob at the earliest, whereas there were human communities and generations and nations before Jacob was born.

There is no evidence for Allah.

Since you can't see Him, you deny the truth that you don't see everything before you agree they exist. You shut your mind when it comes to your Sustiner, yet you do not see me, except my post that you can read, but then you believe sweetnecta exist. And the medium that i communicate this to you is the nairaland site. But God Communicates His Presence through the world around you and your place in it. Yet as you fit quite okay in this system called universe, you ignorantly and arrogantly deny the Owner, Who owns you. Yet you are aging, inching close to your end and you are not reflecting and rethinking your position. Your heart seem to be like that of Pharaoh and or Hitler. Hutchinson, your atheist leader is dead. There is no escaping it and he has known that he is a denier by now. Will you let let your case be exactly like his, dead as an ignorant soul?

Muhammad was an illiterate. Why should I believe that God would choose to narrate his words to an illiterate Arab while ignoring my ancestors in West Africa?

Your ancestors came from some where, from a single man. Or do you think we all arrive as invisible people all at once on earth and when mom got pregnant, the invisible you got in at the end of the rough play between mom and dad? Then germinate to visible in the tummy and as a little man came out? if this your concept or whatever your concept about man on earth, Allah has chosen Muhammad [sa] as the last messenger, while fatherless Jesus and non eloquent Moses where chosen before, along with others. Illiteracy does not mean lacking in articulation. Allah taught Muhamamad [sa] and that made the whole process foolproof with ironclad evidences.
And the igbo people say they are jews and you have no problems with that, but have problem with Arab leading mankind after so much failures from the jews.

Hmmm?

yeah. you read me. you can reread it to get it into your system. maybe it will sink in at some point, and your heart my get healed.

The Quran is a false book that promotes bigotry just like the bible. Tell me why a muslim woman can not get married to who she wants? Why must it be a muslim?

you seem to roll everything on person issue based on the bold. I am sure if you are a thief you will find a reason to justify stealing and blame the owner of stolen property for having the property in the first place. You are not making sense and you need to remove "logic" from each of your id. You will win hands down the way you argue because ignorance always win because its a dogged down ideology. I can't be bothered with you since you seem to be opposite what is expected of normality. What if the muslims woman is your sister? Will you okay if she is the happy meal of men who will not want her? I remember an igbo this year getting angry that an Yoruba like me married a woman from the igbo tribe. And she is a muslim and i am not doing taste testing on her and didn't do it on her before marrying her. And you expect muslim to register his happiness that a Godless person like you is fornicating a muslim woman. Be real.

It is interesting that while you think I'm heading towards blood sacrifice, someone else is thinking I'm heading towards trinity. lol let's just discuss shall we?

for christians blood sacrifice and trinity are together because at the end they claim that Jesus is God in Trinity and Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

One may just ask why killing a human being when killing of animals is frowned upon? why is 3 entities have to be God each, when 1 ultimate God is enough to be God and control all affairs?

by Mr_Anony(m): 10:57pm

A mother can die for her child. If Allah put that love in the heart of the mother, doesn't this suggest that he is capable of more than that? i.e hypothetically speaking, it is not against God's nature to die for His creation. Don't you agree?

But God does not die. Limitation of life make creation, mother dies. The Owner of Life is the Owner of Death. He exists forever and death does not come to Him. The capability of God is more than that of mother and it does not involve death because God can command disease to leave the body of a person. He can command death to not come to a person until later time. All of these about God are signs of His being in control while the mother depends on Him. Or you have not heard a mother pray to God to make it easy for her child?

Inconvenience must not necessarily be a sign of struggle especially when it is willfully accepted. I agree that God is perfect and perfection does not diminish however it depends on the things God is perfect in because to be perfect in one thing means to be totally imperfect in it's opposite. Now on the issue of perfect love, would it not be evidenced by perfect selflessness?
For instance when you say God is perfectly just and also perfectly merciful, doesn't it follow that whenever God shows mercy He withholds justice by not giving evil it's due reward? (by the way, this is another dilemma that we can treat further down the line)

God commands everything into existence. Whatever imposes on Himself, is solely of His Own Will and will not be disagreeing with the unique quality that He is the Only One that has this "Unique Quality" because He is The Creator. When Perfect Love is in play from God, Perfect hate from Him is kept away from the scenario. Love is the opposite of Hate. Both, God has Perfectly: Justice and Mercy are another. Just because one is displayed perfectly does not mean the opposite of it will be imperfect. Each is displayed perfectly in its perfect place and form. Your "giving evil its due reward" is "giving the devil its due reward" or what? Whatever you mean, it is not applicable to Islamic God Who does not struggle with the devil or regrets anything or action.

Misconception; the Trinity is not Gods but one God (hopefully we'll get to that in due time). I am not suggesting anything be shared rather I am a bit puzzled. Since Allah didn't create love per say but love is one of his characteristics, and also if his love is not selfish but indeed pure and selfless; Who then - other than himself - was Allah loving before the onset of creation?

A quality does not have to be actualize if the object to show it on is not there. Just like Allah was already a creator before He created the first of His creations, Allah was The Loving before He showed the first loved creature His Love. A man who can be a father has all the quality that make him a father before he becomes a father for the first time.

erhm....I thought the premise was that Allah was the only ultimate authority and didn't co-exist with other deities. besides, the question was posed hypothetically so please you can answer hypothetically. As for Trinity, don't jump the gun. Perhaps we'll end up there or perhaps we won't. For now let's just follow the argument step by step.

Allah is The Only Ultimate Authority and does not have diety. I simply kill your idea by being realistic and I do not deal in hypothesis when it comes to God, The Reality. Muslims talks reality when it comes to God and no room for error.

Same as above it was a hypothethical question; Please answer as such.
for example "hypothetically. if I loved my cat very much and the only way to save it from a certain disease was to give up my manhood, I could"
So again: Hypothetically, Is God's love for man strong enough that He can momentarily suspend His divinity for man?

if you give your manhood, you can not get it back. God is not a Being that fluctuates, though He is able to do all things, He however restricts Himself from doing things that are not befitting to God. So reality is that God Who can singly command wholesale forgiveness does not have to ungodly become non unique because he wants to give a means of forgiveness, while He is The One that Forgives as the Forgiver, Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. Who will ask Him if He wipe off Hell, put everyone in Paradise, wipe off Paradise or put everyone in Hell? It is divine Justice fro Him that we know there is ultimate punishment in Hell and ultimate mercy in Paradise by Forgiving sins. And you can be sick just like the cat. You are limited just like the cat. God does not have limitation and does not get see.

if i do not respond, it is not because i am ignoring you, but i am busy and definitely, it is ramadhan.

@Mr_Anony(m):

6:57pm

Sweetnecta: Allah loves selflessly because either position of man; acceptance or rejection of the Orders of Allah, Allah gains nothing or loses nothing. It is the selfless Love that Allah has for man that made Him give the road map for success in The Quran and steers man away by it of His intent to punish disobedience, disobedient. Allah could just wipe out people, but He does not.

It is His selfless Love for man made Him say "The Merciful. . ." in the second verse of Surah Fatiha instead of saying the most harsh in punishment. When your parent punishes you, does he not love you still? Yet your parent punishes you for "wasting" his resources; money, time, etc. Even your mother who loves you in a normal sense more than your father is selfless by making sure your life is better than hers. Yet she will punish you when you extremely get out of expectation, out of line, in the hope you will correct yourself after and spare her the agony of having to have a bad child, now the possession of the mother because the father can say you are your mother's child and not his because the good behavior child is claimed by your dad, instead.


If you think your Lord who can punish you and any in past generations has much right to His Justice as your mother, then know that you are unjust to Him because He is the One Who gave the love in the heart of your mother to love you selflessly based on many factors, including the womb where you developed, a creation of God.

Finally, Allah is Loving, which is more than love. Loving possesses ultimate love, while love is what is possessed by Loving. Which do you think i higher; possession or the owner of the possession who controls the possession and may also have other possessions? Allah is The Kind and Forbearing and Always ready to accept repentance. These are some of His Qualities supporting His Mercy, Self Sufficiency and yes the Ability to be the Only One Who is Truly SELFLESS in each of what man can think of. He does not depend on anyone, anything to show extreme mercy. But taking advantage of Him so much that you disregard Him is evil that in any heart should be rejected and if He punishes such a soul, it is True Justice.


From what I understand you are saying, Allah created love and made man selfless.

There is no place in the above where I say the bold. I said Allah is Loving, meaning Owner of Love itself. Hence, if mother is even to be selfless, which is impossible because human being has limitation, it is by the Will of Allah that such a temporary selfless love can occur. If there is selfless love, the Loving is the Only One that has it.

The thing is that love is not something one creates, it is more like an action or a state of being.

Allah puts love in the heart of the mother for the child, for example. Yet the greatest love that mother can show on the child is nothing compared than the Love the Loving showers on the creatures, man included.

If you say that Allah created love, then love cannot really be one of his characteristics rather it'll be something that he made.

The heart where love resides is created by Allah. And He is the One Who allows the heart to show the love. Owner of ultimate love, the purest of any love is The Loving.

If Allah gains nothing and loses nothing by loving, it doesn't show that he loves selflessly. Wouldn't selfless love mean that Allah must be inconvenienced somehow?

Selflessness in the eyes of man must consist of some suffering, inconvenience. This is not the case with Allah. Inconvenience is sign of struggle, etc and Allah does not struggle. Perfection does not diminish. Just because there is no loss or gain, it does not mean inconvenience must be present. No negative effect affects Allah. And Perfection does not increase in time or better by good effect because that will sign imperfection.

Wasting of resources cannot apply to Allah because his resources are never depleted in any way. he can only punish you when you do not do his will but then his will is still all about himself.

since He is Uniquely Ultimate and everyone answers to Him and He to no one, it is normal that it is all About Him. Are you suggesting that there must be shared uniquely ultimate "beings" Gods, as in Trinity? Allah is not that.

Now I know Allah has it all so it would sound quite absurd for him to be inconvenienced but let me ask a hypothetical question; If a situation demanded that Allah give up his divinity for his creation, will he love his creation enough to do it?

Why should Allah give up His Divinity to His creation? How many divine being do you expect to have in this case; unlimited, same as many as creations, same as many as humans, same as many as males, same as many as adults, same as a tribe, same as many as a city, same as many as a household, same as many as 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2? Can you imagine the chaos and disorder that can occur between competing divine beings, one wanting to be Ultimate Divine Authority, Being, Allah? Alliances will be formed to checkmate and overcome divine being[s] rendering Him/them useless, in order to get to the Ultimate Goal: The Only God, Allah The Almighty? Do you think divine beings will want to go back to being ordinary being, that will be subject to the Authority of God that allows such a taste of Authority? These divine being will not want to die and will not have to beg to stay alive. Its interesting to note that the Bible says Jesus begged God, if your question is leading to trinity. I am already there with you.

If you think yes, then please state why. If you think no, also state why

the above provide is my explanation of no to giving up His Divinity because it is illogical and my saying it is needles to say that it relates to level of His Love, since there is a clear distinction between The One Creator, Allah and creation, the many creatures which are angels, jinns, mankind, animals, tress, others. If we don't expect man to give up his authority of dominance of animals to animals, so that animals now have the same power as man? If man will not do this to himself for animal, both creatures of God, I wonder how they think God will share His Position?

I may look foolish, I am definitely not a fool, intoxicated enough to say, illogically, that There is no Originator for me!

I know I didn't come out of vaccum. Mum and Dad made sure of that knowledge. The same their parents did for them. And it went back to the first person or pair of persons; Husband and Wife.

Quran is so thorough that to say that it fails Islam or Islam/Quran/Arab failed in the religious sense is to dismiss Quranic Arabic as the standard of all that is Arab, meaning dismissing the arab people altogether. That will be silly and display of ignorance and pomposity.

A medical student can not defend Textbook material except when the Professor explains it to him/her. Should the ultimate Textbook not have ultimate explanation from the best person to explain it; the one who it is revealed to? Denying the need for explanation shows lack of critical thinking; I see that in your post regardless of your name. And i did not explain the hadith, use hadith as the material that explains Quran.

Those who explain hadith are scholars of hadith, which I a not even a student, yet!

Stop and think before you post a thing about Islam because you look very badly right now.