₦airaland Forum

dolphinheart:
Still dnt understand you, is that the only thing the scriptures said about them? And how christians should handle such issues?

johnydon22:

You asked for the bible said on how to handle homosexuals, i gave you exactly what you want by quoting leviticus 20:13 even romans 1:32 agree they deserve death. . .so if you want to carry out the biblical instructions on this, it is very clear what you should be doing to them.

Since obviously you don't want to or cannot follow the biblical instructions on this regard, why don't you then just leave them alone to live their lives while you live yours.

Ehm... In case you don't know, the conversation between you two has caught my interest. dolphinheart it's your turn abeg.

Hello Catholics, A splendid day ahead to you all.

italo:
Abeg make your zing prepare food for Johnw47 too o.

You know say hunger sef dey make person confuse.

Yes o, abeg rich4god prepare for Johnw74 too o, so he wouldn't accuse us of discriminating against him, abeg o, I have not recovered from the last one.

MuttleyLaff:
Dont ever mistake truth for ITK
If the truth is incontrovertible then your swipe is a small price to pay for airing it.

If you thought I was arguing with myself, then...
and your "Don't be perplexed" bit is just hilarious, you must have had a good laugh writing that
but then you seem oblivious of the Socratic method used in the post, you got "perplexed" reading the post,
not realising am asking questions and returning a few odd answers to stimulate critical thinking towards illuminating the truth

Fulfilment of prohecy? Pfft
SMH. Fulfilment of prohecy indeed.

" thus the feeling of abandonment—must have been exceedingly heavy at that point." - LOL, kai listen to yourself
"Agba o le wa lọja, ki ori ọmọ wọ" - ask any of igbati/yooba neighbours for the meaning of that
You definitely noticed I used "strong borrowed Psalms 22:1 forsaken word", as opposed to not using the actual word Jesus uttered on the cross

You need to examine the sorroundings and backdrop up to when Jesus uttered those words to ascertain if He was "forsaken"

The fact is Jesus uttered those famous words out in Aramaic,
if He were referring to Psalms 22:1 verbatim, as in word for word, copy to copy, why didnt He repeat it same, as it was in Hebrew?
Why didnt He utter: ""Eli, Eli, lamah azabtani?" in Hebrew like in Psalms 22:1
but instead in Aramaic uttered "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?
Why did Jesus change words, why change "azabtani" to "sabachthani"?
- Obviously they have different meanings, besides the mago-mago, wuru-wuru trying to pass "sabachthani" as "azabtani" clearly is there for any willing to see

"Nashatani" AND NOT "sabachthani", is the Aramaic word for Hebrew's "azabtani", which in Psalms 22:1 is the translated English word "forsaken"

For whose benefit there, did Jesus, in Aramaic utter those words ?
Who were listening, who there could have understood the language He uttered and who there was the message in that utterance for?

Jesus doesnt speak impetuously, like David did, with "forsaken me" in Psalms 22:1
It just isnt at all part of any of Jesus' m.o

So you read George Lamsa's claim, and that suddenly makes you authoritative in the matter.

Your question is whether the Aramaic shavaktani (which is spelled sabachthani in Greek) really means “abandoned.” And the answer is yes. Though it is a remote possibility that both Mark and Matthew translated it wrong (note that mark used eloi eloi), It is still likely that Jesus substituted another word rather than translating azavtani directly, but we have external evidence about shavaktani.

In particular, we find the same verb (in different conjugations) in Ezra 6:6 and Daniel 4:23. In each spot, it has to do with “leaving alone.” Furthermore, we frequently find the Aramaic shavak as a translation for the Hebrew azav, just for example, in Targum Onkolos (aramaic translation) to Genesis 2:24.

Wikipedia has this to say "The Aramaic word form šəbaqtanî is based on the verb šəbaq/šābaq, 'to allow, to permit, to forgive, and to forsake', with the perfect tense ending -t (2nd person singular: 'you'), and the object suffix -anî (1st person singular: 'me')."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus.

Lastly, I prefer to choose he was quoting Psalm 22 as He always does concerning various passages that points to his life, many of such were pointed out by the evangelists, referring us to the prophets. Also on that Cross we cannot overlook his other last words such as the last words "Into the hands I commit my spirit" , which comes straight from Psalm 31:5 nor "I thirst" which is believed to come from Psalm 63:1. Read the whole Psalm, short as it is and it becomes clear what Jesus was saying on the cross, especially since he rejected the vinegar soaked sponge after reciting those words. Sorry, Lamsa's is just a claim by one who spoke syriac of 2000 years old from what Jesus spoke, and I’m not convinced by his (unsupported) claim that Jesus would not have referred to the Psalms in Aramaic.

italo:
In the anti-Catholic mind: if I say the Psalmist was not praying, I will sound silly. If I say the Psalmist was praying, it would mean the Catholics are right to ask for intercession. I will rather beat around the bush or change the topic.

Lol, now let's watch the drama unfold.

italo:
Ha! Syncan! It seems that we Catholics (Jesus, the four living creatures and us) don't know how to pray.

What are we going to do? See below.

Matt26:44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Rev4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

Bro, I just tire for the "rabbi".

johnw74:
@bold,
How does saying an Our Father after saying 10 hail marys make it a right way to pray?
Prayer isn't reciting the same things over and over, prayer is talking to God, having a conversation with Him.

Christians have a personal relationship with God, they don't pray to human beings who have died to pray to God for them.

@underline,
the psalmist tells the Angels and Heavenly host to praise the Lord,
the psalmist did not tell the Angels and Heavenly host to pray to God for Him,
a big difference.

Hahahaha, now he asks how saying Our father is the right way to pray. Did Jesus tell you how many times you should say it? Just take a look at the bold, do you know you just said that Jesus did not pray well in the garden of Gethsemane? lets see what happened there Matt. 26:44 "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Did you see that Jesus spent his time in the Garden saying same thing? Yet you have the audacity to tell Jesus that "Prayer isn't reciting same thing over and over again". Ok, make I just dey observe you.

Thank you for agreeing that the Psalmist told the angels and the hosts to praise the Lord. At least it means you agree that angels and hosts can pray, for praise just like supplication are forms of prayers. If any one can Pray, such a one can praise, such a one can Petition, such a one can supplicate for another. The Psalmist asked them to praise the Lord, why? for he the psalmist feels the goodness and greatness of God, so he is simply telling them to Praise God for him, just same way some people (not you) asks their brethren to praise God for them. What is wrong with that, it is scriptural not so? Was the psalmist praying in that passage or not.

italo:
Insecure protestants...always demonizing the Catholic Church in a bid to gain relevance.

Yet the Catholic Church keeps waxing strong while they keep splitting to millions of "denominations" with contradictory doctrines.

...Yet they stay glued to anything Catholic, reading the Catechism, Following the Pope's speeches and acts...sometimes more than Catholics, even doing vigil during the Pope's election to see and hear the new Pope, then they rush to condemn. Haba! Which kind envy be this na?

MuttleyLaff:
"... Father, Father why have thou forsaken me..." is not what was said in the Aramaic language He uttered.
This wrong interpretation has been passed down and incorrectly taught this way

So? What about Psalm 22?
That right there, the Psalm 22 you displayed, is the genesis.
By hook or by crook, translators try to align Jesus's utterance on the cross with David's lamentation in Psalms 22:1,
but the two scenarios really arent the same

Not sure of the translators' sincerety when imagining and settling for "forsaken"
when that wasnt what Jesus, in the Aramaic language uttered on the cross.

I do understand, and do see why the translators leaned towards "forsaken"
but going for that strong and "borrowed from Psalms 22:1" "forsaken" word stretched the truth
and obliterated getting the true understanding of what Jesus actually said and/or really meant on the cross

Quite sure Jesus is fully aware of Deuteronomy 31:6, Deuteronomy 31:8, Joshua 1:5 and 1 Chronicles 28:20 to not have used that strong "forsaken" word in the manner or way, that the translators want to lead all to believe is what and how He uttered the words

I just read through your "I too know" write up here, you seem to just be arguing with your self to a simple quote that says "Psalm 22". Why you are quarreling with Psalm 22 which obviously began with "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Indeed a messianic psalm which illustrates the agony the suffering servant will go through. Don't be perplexed, God the Father did not abandon his Son in his Son’s suffering but allowed him in his humanity to experience the sense of divine abandonment that humans often feel during times of need, and especially when in sin. Just as we often feel that God has abandoned us when we are suffering (even though this isn’t the case), so the Son of God in his humanity experienced that aspect of human suffering as well. He died for our sins, and the weight of those sins—and thus the feeling of abandonment—must have been exceedingly heavy at that point. This is God's will, and note that Jesus had prayed that "Thy will be done" in the garden of Gethsemane.

By quoting this psalm, Jesus shows that he is the fulfillment of that prophecy and that he will be vindicated, which is evident in the psalm’s triumphant ending. Yes it is the first verse of the Psalm like you pointed out, but Jesus does not need to read the whole Psalm. If i say "The Lord is my shepherd" for example, many will know to complete the rest. He quoted Psalm 22.


As for the Aramaic translation stuff, bring your Aramaic here and show us how it wasn't psalm 22:1. It's not everything that I want to argue about, but I just had to make myself clear since you quoted my post "Psalm 22".

Psalm 22.

honourhim:
Catholics are just playing hide and seek games here. At one point they will hold on to the words of Jesus and at another point they dont hold on to it. Now here is another teaching that Jesus gave on prayer-

-
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Obviously prayers should be directed to God. All these stories that Catholiics are telling dont fit in at all. Its either u fall in line with Christ's teachings or u are on your own.

So that's why you couldn't respond to a simple " Hope you're doing ok" from a Catholic. Well done o.

I am glad that even the poster you hailed, mentioned that the Lord's Prayer is said a number of times in that particular devotion he chose to attack. Catholics direct their prayers to God, they even call on their brethren on earth and in heaven to pray to God, sometimes in supplication, sometimes in praise and thanksgiving. When they say Psalm 148 for example they say ""Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" This is prayer isn't it? Yet it calls on angels and saints to pray to God. Same way when they say the Hail Mary, they call on Mary to pray to God, "...Pray for us sinners..." they say.

Tallesty1:
Abraham can hear us

*Sighs*

Listen bro, A parable is a short symbolic story designed to teach some principle or lesson. They are not meant to be taken literally.

And what did it teach you, that Abraham had no knowledge of the rich man's life on earth? You need to stop doubting Jesus, he never uses cock and bull stories. If Abraham will not know about the rich man's life, Jesus will not say he knew. LK16:25

I am not condemning you, I just want you to know where and how you violate the bible truth.

Now you abrogate yourself the authority you deny the church, to teach what is the truth. Yet the church and not you, is the foundation and pillar of truth...not even the bible. 1Tim 3:15

By Who?
Saint Paul was teaching about the living for the living. Saint Paul nowhere encourages, or even mentions believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

In Christ, all the saints are in communion, those in heaven also intercede for those on earth."the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" Rev. 5:8. It was never in doubt among the early Christians, for even during the persecutions, people about to be martyred are asked by their fellow brethren to obtain favors for them when they get to heaven. Try to read a little about early Christianity.

Listen......Jesus Christ thought us that prayer is only to be directed to our God, who can listen and hear my prayer… he asked us to pray using his name because He and the Father are one.

Mary or the saints were not mentioned here.

The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers.

The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God.

Then why do we pray to Mary and saints?"

If you were a protestant, I would have taken you to be "Sola Scriptura", but you claim to be Catholic, so I don't even know how to respond, since Catholics don't base on scripture alone, but on the word of God. This is found both in the bible, Oral tradition (as seen in our history), and the teachings of the magisterium.
However, I have shown you earlier with scriptures that though Jesus is our mediator, I can still ask Italo, Vest or Mary to pray for me because they are all alive before God and Indeed all pray to God everyday. Any prayer said by these people still pass through and to Jesus. If Italo and vest are righteous before God, their prayers will be very Powerful with Jesus Jam. 5:16, Mary's righteousness is confirmed, hence her prayer is very Powerful with Jesus. Jn 2:1-11

Do you remember what happened in 1 Samuel 28:7-19?? Lemme refresh your memory, Samuel was called up from the land of the dead Remember? Good, did you notice that Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed.

Is that a clear lesson that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us.

You don't need this, even you know the difference between necromancy and asking for intercession in prayer. The saints in heaven pray to God everyday, they praise him daily.in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Ok, lemme agree for a minute that Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and other saints can hear us. Yes lemme agree for a minute that they can.

If truly they can then why the focus on Mary

Again it is left for you to believe Jesus, "In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God...". They know what their fellow members of that one body are doing here on earth, for "we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" Heb 12:1.

Why the focus on Mary you ask? I should be asking you that question, for it is you who singled her out. However, for about two thousand years now, among all other saints both here and in heaven,her intercession before her son has been shown to be most powerful. The church takes note of this Divine manifestation and revelations, so she continues to take recourse to her maternal aid. Even the first Protestants never disregarded her as the end time protestants. The early Church had recourse to her help and was able to spread Christianity to the ends of the earth.

Tallesty1:
The reason I used that bible quote was to bring to your attention, the fact that my comment was talking physical death.

Mary being alive in the spirit is no guarantee that he can hear us or help us.

And I personally don't need her help if at all he she hears.

Do you know why?

It is because Hebrews 4:16 encourages me to approach the throne of grace confidently. "Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need".

There is also no scriptural evidence that Mary intercedes for mankind.

1 Timothy 2:5 says For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

And The Man Jesus Christ said "You can ask for any thing in my name, and I will do it

So we really don't need Mary's services, ie if at all she has any to offer.

Oh really?

If Abraham can hear us, (see the rich man and Lazarus) Lk 16:19-31....So Mary can hear.

Prayer. The communication with God is more a spiritual than physical thing, for God is a spirit. If you don't need her help,I have no problem with that, but don't condemn me for asking a righteous person to pray for me because "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective". James 5:16

Jesus is the mediator, I agree, Yet it does not nullify (1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men". St. Paul calls us to intercession, yet we know that Christ continues to intercede, since (Heb 7:24-25) says: "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". St Paul knows this eternal Intercessory role of Christ, yet he exhorts the faithful to "Intercessions for all men" without fear of contradiction, it therefore means that we can participate in these aspect of Christ's ministry according to the level of "bonding" between us and Jesus without anyone feeling that recognition is taking away from Christ.

The early church knew this and practiced it, As a matter of fact, the earliest manuscript containing that prayer you quoted is P470 (Pappyrus leaf number 470) dating as far back as 250AD.

kokoA:
To many sabi sabi in the house.. Smh @ Nigerian protestants.. Must you people always find fault in other people's beliefs? If you think it is only you and your church members that will be in heaven then you're mistaking. God did not create the world for you and people of your faith alone. He created the world for you, catholics, muslims, atheist, buddist, hindu, etc and he said we are ALL his children.. Allow other people worship God the way the know, do not Judge! The old man gave a very beautiful sermon that all christians can benefit from and just because he mentioned "Mary" somewhere, some people be came uncomfortable.. Smh.. Why don't you pick what is of benefit to you from the sermon and leave the rest?

Pay no attention to them and ask no more, it was predicted long ago... "So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus". Rev 12:17

Anas09:
Idol worshippers. Babylon the great.

(Ex 23:1)- You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness.

(Prov 19:9)- A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

(1Pet 2:1-2) - So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation... to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...

Tallesty1:
Genesis 25 v 8

Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people.

Again I ask, do you doubt Jesus?

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Mary is living, just as Abraham.

You, my friend, are so knowledgeable about things of this world (I had noticed you before now), I wish you could be so with regards to your faith.

Tallesty1:
Biblical proof that she has fore-knowledge of our problems or that she hears our prayers bro.

You are alive, you can hear and see but Mary is dead. That's the difference.

So you doubt Jesus?

Jesus said: "Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die" Jn 11:26. He even used Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as examples thus: "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Please try to believe Jesus, Mary is living just as these Patriarchs.

honourhim:
wey that my friend sef?

I'm here dear one, I hope you are doing ok.

vest:
anytime i c topic lyk this i jst smile remembering syncan

You should really laugh out loud I tell you.

An angel coming from God said to Mary "blessed art thou among women." Lk 1:28

Elizabeth Filled with the Holy Ghost said to Mary "Blessed art thou among women" Lk1:42

A woman inspired by Jesus teachings said of Mary "Blessed is the womb that bare thee" Lk 11:27

...Yet the OP says the woman worshiped Mary and Jesus rebuked her.

Bro Vest, you really need to laugh out loud.

Today's First Reading Genesis 22:1-19


'...I swear by my own self – it is the Lord who speaks – because you have done this, because you have not refused me your son, your only son, I will shower blessings on you, I will make your descendants as many as the stars of heaven and the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants shall gain possession of the gates of their enemies. All the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by your descendants, as a reward for your obedience....’

Can you feel the swag of our God when he said "I swear by my own self"...? He must have looked all around the Universe, containing more than 100 billion galaxies, he must have looked at our milky way, which is an average sized galaxy with a diameter of "Just" 100 light years(consider that light travels 8.77 trillion miles a year)! Some men swear by things sacred, so He must have looked everywhere but found nothing more sacred, Some are fascinated and swear by things huge;so He must have found nothing more huge, Some are intrigued and swear by things glittering; so He must have found nothing more glittering, Some are awed and swear by things mysterious; so He must have found nothing more mysterious anywhere, than Himself. Hence He declared "I sear by my own self"....Yes He swore by Himself; for there is nothing that could compare to Him. Oh The swag of our God, what a mighty God we serve.


"I love the Lord for he has heard the cry of my appeal; for he turned his ear to me in the day when I called him". Psalm 114.

Such is the declaration of the Psalmist, and I dare say...such is the declaration of this Catholic family. I said there where gonna be testimonies after our Novena, and we've been Inundated by various, believe me there are some untold and some still to come, for our God had turned His ear to us in those days when we called. Let's rejoice and be glad, let's be filled with praises for Him, for He answers when we call. His time is best for you. Even if you've not felt His answer,do not worry, for He surely knows what to do for you. Remember, it matters not to God if Lazarus was still sick or dead, He will make Lazarus alive and healthy in His time. I bless God with you all who have shared testimonies with us, and I look forward to the next Novena prayers coming up in October.

Good morning brethren, a splendid day ahead to all.

italo:
And condemning Catholics to hell.

Now the Catholic doctrine has remained the same, but Frosbel's doctrine has been flip-flopping and is gravitating back to Catholic doctrine.

Catechism of the Catholic Church 847:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.


Rom 2:14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.

I laugh in Latin.

Let's hope he doesn't renounce his position if he sees this.

brocab:
So does this mean you too haven't the slightest Idea about the infant story either?
Are you Catholic's to dumb, to even figure out what Luke 18:15-16 had said.
Psalms 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners. and in sin my mother conceived me.
Ezekiel 18:20 "The souls who sin shall die-The son not bear the guilt of his father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon Himself.
Which means-we are not accountable for our mothers or fathers sinful nature, but our own.

We may be born into a sinful world, but as infants we haven't any sensibility to know what sin is. And no-parent would expect any infant to take on their sinful burdens. Would you allow your child to take on yours? Being a Catholic I suppose you would.
Allowing your child to be baptised at a early age, and not allowing your child to make their own decisions.

Matthew 18:3 "Jesus said: assuredly I say to you unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:4-Luke 18:15-16 "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I am not expecting you to understand, But Jesus was inferring in scripture, no-one can enter into heaven with sin.
Revelation 21:27 " said: nothing unclean can enter into heaven.
Before Jesus had even laid His hands upon those children He said, let the infants and the little children come to Me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
In other words, infants and children at a certain age are sinless.
Read Ezekiel again The soul who sins shall die. And the SON shall not Bear his fathers sinful nature.

Now go back to your bibles and read it, as Jesus had written It. And still we won't find infant baptism.

Arrogant, insultive, talkative yet very ignorant. Despite given you a precise hint with Rom.5:12, you still can't understand can you, yet had the effontery to come here talking off point.

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Read the above passage until it makes sense to you, however if it is still difficult for you to comprehend, then look at the one below for explanation:

1Cor. 15:22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..

Are infants excluded from "all" in the scripture passages above?

Scholar8200:
When did this take place, before or after baptism:

Acts 15:8,9

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

What else does salvation do in us? Note that they were purified not by baptism but by faith (which came by hearing).

And as to the death and resurrection with Christ, did that happen at baptism or when the Spirit came and their hearts were purified?

1 Corinth 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptism was the outward testimony of the afore-stated which occurred when they believed!

You keep ignoring relevant passages of scripture, the fact that the Holy Spirit fell on them was a surprise to Peter, for him it was water first before the Spirit.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again he doesn't mince words, he actually explains what happens at the moment of water baptism, that it isn't to cleanse the body, but an appeal...

1Pet.3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

All these because Peter believed in Jesus own words.

Mk.16:16.Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If you say you believe, you must accept baptism, simple. And this is what the apostles did in obedience to the Lord.

MuttleyLaff:
https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Chai. Diarisgud ooo, see Syncan, avoiding action, pushing Ubenedictus into line of fire and using him as a human shield LOL

Syncan you wont get off that easily, please throw light ON EACH of the following, then compare and contrast them:
Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

Have a go, dont be shy.

Sorry oga, If Ubenedictus has decided to go into what is obviously unneccesary to me in this discuss, I am not. That's my stand.

brocab:
Babies can't sin-and they can't be baptised for the remissions of sins, either.
For all have sinned, those who believe have fallen short of sin.

So when you were born-what was your sin, that your parents had to have you baptised as a child at birth.And who spoke for you, to claim you are saved, and answer the question unto whom are you saved?

Psalm 51:5 states that we all come into the world as sinners: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.”. It is left for you to tell yourself the truth if infants have come into the world. Incase you don't know why this is so, then read the below:

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. Rom.5:12.

Scholar8200:
I didnt say he said so either. Neither does Acts suggests Peter had ended all he had to say! Acts 10:44 shows that the event occurred while Peter was still speaking!
That qualifier is not in the Bible. Acts 11:14 shows that Peter's terms of reference was to preach which he indeed started doing. First you said they were chosen to be saved, now you say they were already accepted! Pray, Peter did not go there to assure/flatter them! He went to ," tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved."(Acts 11:14)
Hear Acts 10:44
While Peter yet spake these words... Which? the one recorded from verse 34-43
Now you rephrase the Word to justify your church's tradition! They were soundly converted when they believed and God Who saw their hearts responded to their faith that came by hearing!

For the records"

Acts 11:13,14
13 and he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

It matters not how you twist and turn, the above still tells you what concludes Peter's mission to them. It is in baptism that they now died with Christ and rose new men. "accepted" was used by peter and not me, so do you understand it as being saved?

brocab:
So you are making up your own words, very religious. So babies are sinners now, when Jesus entered into the world was He a sinner too. And maybe you haven't got the answers to the above questions, how many babies was their in the jailers and Corniles household.

You see how deceptive you are? So Rom.3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God is now my own words abi. Carry on.

MuttleyLaff:
Start with how exactly were those in 1 Peter 3:20-21 baptised?
Were they water baptised, as in immersed in physical water?

You're so obsessed with water, you still dont get it
Did you pause enough to think of the meaning & implication of "It is EFFECTIVE BECAUSE OF THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ"?
I asked because you below shrugged off where I earlier had said, water baptism was allowed by Jesus because He has yet died and resurrected
(i.e. He hasnt been glorified yet) with a post saying:
"What does it matter whether Jesus had died or not died? Almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before he died"

Yes almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before He died,
BUT according to John 16:12-13, Jesus still had more things to say which He left for later

John 16:12-13
¹²“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
¹³“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;
for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak;
and He will disclose to you what is to come

Thank you for your answer, waiting for Syncan and Ubenedictus' answers

I've replied and answered this above

I've replied and answered this above

SMH, brazenly you lie like a Persia rug again,
Unsurprisingly, you not only conveniently change how things are said
but you also enjoy leaving out important qualifying words and like concocting up your version in their place

I see your answer. Thank you. Waiting for Syncan's answer now


https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
You, my dear sire, I leave you with 1 Corinthians 10:2 to ruminate on

Thank you all. All answers are in,
so now, italo, Syncan and Ubenedictus, please throw light of the following, then compare and contrast them:
Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

Ubenedictus may continue expounding on allusions and prefigures used by the apostles to teach. For me, The apostles, obeying Jesus baptized with water and the Holy Spirit's presence was made manifest. In this baptism I die with Christ and rise with Him a new man. I am born again.

brocab:
Jesus said: Luke 18:16 let the little children come to me, for they are the kingdom of heaven-Why would Jesus say such a thing before he laid His hands on them, is it because He as a child came into the world sinless, just like every other child who is born sinless.
Could you shed some light on the new born infants and children under the age, that you believe were baptised under the roof of Cornelius and the jailers household.

To make this clear, Since we are both Christians, and to support your theory could you show me in scripture, without guessing' where have you retrieved this Idea' Jesus said one must baptised infant's and little children at a certain age.


So if you were baptised as a child who gave the
authority for you to be saved-saved unto
whom-you didn't make that decision to be
baptised.
And if you believe you belong to Christ, then
why do you worship another? {Mother of God-
Queen of heaven}
And why do you kiss the feet of the statue of
Mary when you enter into the Church?
If you believe in Christ, Him you shall serve and
Him only-so why do you call Mary your
mediator, when Christ is our mediator.
So you see-if you want people to believe you
are saved in Christ, then at least follow, what
Christ has written, in word and in truth.

I take it you have no answer to my questions. Ok, a much simpler one, Rom.3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Does the above scripture exclude infants? I still have quite a number of things to say but I need to see how truthful you are. Please stay in line with topic.

Scholar8200:
Peter could not have continued preaching after the Holy Ghost came! Those words were recorded because he uttered them before the descent of The Spirit on the gathering, not after! Acts 15:8,9 specifically states that they believed! What did they believe?! And for what intent did the angel command Cornelius to send for Peter?! Is it not that the latter might preach the Gospel (as recorded) to them? Acts 10:44 shows that Peter was still on his message when the Divine interruption took place but it will be illogical to claim Peter did not say all that was recorded! Were those his thoughts?

As per the highlighted, its interesting that you appear to be introducing a new (but needless) idea.

Peter spoke all that was recorded, the people gathered believed, God saw the faith in their hearts and bestowed a double blessing! That simple!

Peter never said the Holy Ghost came after his talk, he said He had hadly started when the Holy Ghost came. I am not introducing anything new, don't dodge facts, Verse 35 tells you that they were accepted by God already But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
It is you who said Peter couldn't have continued after the Holy Ghost came, but You agree that Peter was interrupted, yet you say that all that was written was said before the interruption. This is Peter who possibly stayed more than one day with them, as seen in the last verse of acts 10. The angel told cornelius to send for peter that Peter may bear witness to the teachings of christ and baptize them for their salvation, a function he made sure to perform.

sportsmaster:
this topic shd not attract much controversy,it a simple issue.
Jesus did not baptize anyone with water.the Apostles did i dont know why they did so?.
The physical water does not cleanse the heart,Notice the cases in the book of acts where the Apostles baptised people.
firstly ,they preached Christ to the People and then went ahead to baptise them with water.


study the following scriptures,
acts8:
philip preached christ to them,the Apostles(Peter and John),laid hands on them that they might receieve the Holy Ghost,i think later in that chapter,it was recorded that they were baptised,I am not too sure.
somebody help check acts8 to verify.

when Jesus was baptized by John,its a only a symbol of what was to come.which is that Jesus was going to be identified with Man as a sinner(2cor5:21).
As we all know,John the baptist baptised the Sinners and Jesus was NOT a sinner.
Jesus' baptism was only a symbol that he was going to become a sinner so that we maybe made righteous(see 2cor5:21)

Ezekiel 26:24-26:-
the water spoken about here is "figurative",it is not talking about Physical water.
1cor6:11:- notice the word "washed" then relate this scripture to Acts 22:16.

Then finally compare everything to John15:3.
You will see that, it is his Word that cleanses us.

Then all the dots will connect.
what really matters is to be washed and sanctified by the Blood of Jesus which occurs at the new birth(salvation).

I could have expantiated a lot futher but i dont have my bible here,My laptop is at home,and i use a Nokia E5 to type here.No bible for my phone.Make una no vex.

@ the bold, Oga, Any one that says Jesus was ever "a sinner" in any guise is not a Christian. I would have just ignored you, but I had to point this out. 2Cor.5:21 never had such a blasphemy.

MuttleyLaff:
I am sorry brother, if you sincerely and genuinely do not understand what Peter was saying there

Let me ask you a question though, this question applies also to Syncan and possibly Ubenedictus too
Dont worry, its not a trick question, its just a question, answers are for my benefit, are for estimating or gauging sake.
Whose baptism, do you prefer? The baptism of John or the baptism of Jesus Christ?

Please carefully read and try to understand 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 before answering. No hasty reply.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
¹For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,
that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
²They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

You definitely must have earlier read me, post that Jesus sure did instruct them albeit this instruction was before he died and resurrected, in other this was before Jesus was glorified

I prefer the baptism that the apostles practiced on ethiopian eunuch, Paul, Cornelius, Lydia, etc. Which one was that?