₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Which you are yet to show is objectively true. So you are yet to show what is special or objectively true about this experience.

BTW here is some guy who saw Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed, how seriously should I take him since he also had an OBE.

I Died; Saw Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad & Krishna During My NDE. What They Showed Me Changed Me Forever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pICciopQs7w

All these are NDEs E and not OBE!

In OUT of BODY experiences, a person witnesses real physical experiences that he is not supposed to be privy to.
NDE to a large extent may be I sinuated to be an Elaborate Dream but not OBE especially if it happens within an NDE

LordReed:
Which you have yet to tell me.

OUT ... Of.. BODY !

LordReed:
Unless it is of things he wouldn't otherwise be able to see then it won't mean anything. Take your Howard Storm for instance, he said he saw his wife and the other patient in the room, there's nothing special about that description since they both were in the room with him. If he had described events or people outside the room that he could not have otherwise known then that would be something.

Howards NDE is not even one of the profound ones with respect to OBEs.

When the subject who is expected to be unconscious is reporting what each of the medical personnel was doing when they died, that is a real deal and there are examples to that effect


This is why it is called Out of Body Body Experiences

LegalWolf:
Fulani headquarter is not only in Maradi, why not Chad or Mali?!!!

Dumb, imb.ecilic and a complete waste of mass - scourge of both heaven and earth!

cc: Future thief TenQ

Booting small small!
Lol!

The guilty will always sing like Canaries even before asking them questions.
Too bad!

LordReed:
Same way I accept that people have dreams.

OBEs are called OBEs and not dreams for a reason dude!

KnownUnknown:
The following anecdote was related by a devotee . He was confirmed— said he—in his belief in the existence of the gods and as
helpers in the government of the world from the following incident.
Said he , A young man once fell into a swoon , and having revived, he related the vision which he had seen . He said he saw the GREAT
GOD sitting on a throne , covered with a flowing garment , attended on His right and left by Orisanla and Ifa his counsellors, behind him was a pit into which the condemned were cast . Ogun and Sopona were ministers of his vengeance to execute justice upon offenders . Ogun armed with swords (or daggers) went out daily to slay victims , his food being the blood of the slain........

Excerpt from The History of the Yorubas: From the Earliest Times to the Beginning of the British Protectorate

NDE, OBE, Vivid dreaming, regular dreaming = Brain activity that mean NOTHING

I guess you don't know that sometime OBEs accompany NDEs.

KnownUnknown:
They don’t see anything because it does not happen. They only thing they “see” is the same thing that goes on when they are dreaming.
There is no such thing as leaving your body or any other woo woo nonsense people claim.
Spirits, ghosts, souls, holy ghosts, etc are just bullshit.

Repeating assertions don't suddenly make them real. Just read a few reports of OBEs happening within NDE then you can promote any hypothesis to explain them away

budaatum:
Funny how you discard my own report of my own subjective experience so easily.

I am not aware you stated YOUR OWN personal experience. Perhaps you can remind me

LordReed:
And how can we prove that that is the case?

Physical Third party verification of what was sighted in an OBE!

Kobojunkie:
OBEs are not proof of anything outside of the mental.

Is this your explanation to explain away OBEs a fact or a theory?

You said:

An out‐of‐body experience (OBE) is a phenomenon whereby an individual views his/her body and the world from a location outside the physical body.

Tell me how this is possible?

How do you explain physical observables reported from an OBE?

Until you can do that...

KnownUnknown:
They are not describing anything but whatever is going on in the experiencer’s minds. Credulity nurtured by religion and superstition is reason y’all believe in baseless nonsense.

OBEs are called such because the person may see real time physical events in a place his body couldn't have been.
Real time physical events are not baseless

LordReed:
Same way I accept that people have dreams.

Dreams and NDEs are subjective however OBEs within NDEs may not be subjective as they may describe real physical occurences

LordReed:
Why do we need to explain them away or otherwise? Why not just accept them for what they are, uniquely subjective experiences?

How can one especially as an Atheist accept OBEs within NDEs without accepting that NDEs are true non physical occurences?

taylor89:
Wait oo

What’s the correlation between Buhari and Niger?

I don’t understand this frequent romance

Chaii see how Nigeria has failed that was why APC did all they could to make sure they rigged in Tinubu

Imagine this was a working country ? Buhari suppose match from Ao Rock to Prison

But see the menace & destroyer walking freely bcuz he knows he’s a lesser evil than Tinubu

It seems the Fulani are building a new Empire with Headquarters at Maradi, Niger Republic. All acquired money goes to Maradi. Don't forget that Buhari gave Niger republic almost 30 brand new SUVs: it's the new capital of the Fulani empire

LordReed:
Both his wife and the other patient were in the room.

I am not even particular of his OBE. How about other even more compelling OBEs within NDEs?

How do we explain them away?

Kobojunkie:
1. OBE's remain nothing more than subjective experiences which can be likened to dreams, can they not?

2. Everything I have stated so far, even on this subject, has been strictly aligned with Scripture. That you aren't even aware of this is the major problem. You feel attacked by my continued use of that which is the Truth of God to counter the many claims you make means I am not your problem at all.... at all.

3. There is that which is an error from one who believes in Jesus Christ, and then there is outright lying by one who rejects Jesus Christ embracing the antiChrist instead. Never confuse the two are being the same. They are not the same. Jesus Christ made clear this difference in the way He dealt with the errors of His followers and the way He dealt with the lies of the Pharisees and false teachers.

Those who are of the religion of Christianity have their very foundation rooted in doctrines and traditions which are against Jesus Christ - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13 - and as such lying is expected given that, as Jesus Christ Himself, has true experience of Jesus Christ but that which is imagined.

4. Did you know that Jesus Christ made it known that you are meant to abandon your wife, children, husband, father, mother, brother, sister, etc. if you are to become worthy of Him? No earthly association is meant in any way to be worth more to you than the Truth of God if you decide to become a follower of Jesus Christ. Yes, God's Truth is meant to be worth more to you than gold and even blood. If you consider it a great weakness, then you definitely know nothing of God.

5. Jesus Christ never sent anyone out to attack Muslims or atheists or anyone for that matter in His name. Rather, what He sent His followers out to do is to proclaim His Truth — against all lies perpetuated in His name. Go back through every single discussion I have had here with any of those of you who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and you will find that my focus has always been on pulling down every lie you speak using the name of Jesus Christ, and nothing more. That you feel attacked by me, is all you and not me, as I am simply doing that which Jesus Christ said His own ought to— proclaim His Truth above all lies spoken using his name. I am not sure why you are so wrapped around the atheists, Muslims, babalawos, witches, pagans, Hindus, etc. when God no send you a message, to begin with.

.

LordReed:
But he wasn't describing an events happening around him in detail. He said he saw his wife and the other patient in his room which is something he was already aware of.

He was aware that the wife was crying her eyes out outside his room!?

His OBE wasn't even as compelling as others I'm sure you have listened to.

Kobojunkie:
1. You are joking, right?

Your intention had been to claim that this man's dream amounts to evidence for existence of angels, a lie --- antichrist---- yet you actually expected me not to cut you off?

Perhaps you should go back and check my posts : this was the exact reason I didn't mention anything spiritual to them.

My chalkwge was that they should explain the OBE away or take it seriously

.

Kobojunkie:
2. I didn't attack but rather made clear that all this man experience had only to do with his own mental and not reality outside of it.

3. Are the Angels you speak of situated inside of this man's mental? I provided you references from scripture of Jesus Christ explaining that all those who are born-again are become like the angels. Are we situated inside of this man's dreaming?.

Obvious answer to that would be No, so why would you suggest his dreaming confirms existence of Angels? If he had instead come back with a tale about Dracula and vampires, would you have equally taken that as validation of existence of vampires?

You did attack the post. It's your nature to do so!
My problem with you is that you hardly post ANY scriptural truth or teaching nor admonition on Nairaland. Your objective is to TEAR down ANYTHING that doesn't resonate well with you not minding the presence of stark enemies of the Gospel of Christ.

Even when a Christian makes error in presentation of the gospel of Christ, those who are more knowledge should tactfully correct in love. Unfortunately maybe you don't know : you are exactly the opposite.

If your husband did that which was wrong or uncomly, would you tongue lash him in public? This is your greatest weakness. At a point, one is wondering whether you and Atheists or Muslims are working together for a common cause.

I wish rather Not comment on a thread than pull down a believer (irrespective of who they are) before Atheists or Muslims and this applies even to Jehovahs witness (when discussion is with Atheists or Muslims)

advocatejare:
Muhammad was the god, Allah was his creation to deceive people!

Mohammed is the greatest 419 since Adam. He over did it that Aisha could not help but exclaim why Allah seem to obey Mohammeds slightest wish.

They didn't know that the man under the masquerade costume is the masquerade

LordReed:
You haven't explained why it is special.

For people who believe only what is physically explainable, when a oeasob who has flatlined on the theater table is describing events happening around him in zone details, it is special
Except
If you can physically explain the OBE within the NDE

LordReed:
Why are OBEs special?

Because when OBE occur within an NDEs, there is no objective explanation to reject the testimonies.

Kobojunkie:
1. Angels are real. I gave you several Scriptures from Jesus Christ Himself explaining some of who they are. What this man had is to be likened to a dream about ideas of angels though. So?

2. What realities beyond the physical are you referring to here? This man's dream? What exactly is there to counter?

You jumped into a conversation meant for an Atheist because you must just antagonize whatever a Christian (not from your denomination) says even to unbelievers.

You attacked the fact that I said something about realities beyond the physical!

So, I ask: are Angels not part of realities beyond the physical?

advocatejare:
Lukuluku69 is notorious for that, he never takes responsibility for anything in his life. He’s just like Muhammad, when he told someone to use honey to cure his loose stool and it didn’t work, muhammad like he was blamed the man’s stomach for not responding to honey rather than take responsibility that is recommendation failed!

A servants can’t be different. Like Muhammad like Luku

I agree with you!
Allah swearing the swear of men prove that he's a man (Mohammed himself is Allah)

LordReed:
Why though? You are just repeating that he had an experience so I must take it seriously. Why should I take his experience more seriously then any other experience especially mine. What is special about his experience?

I am saying that only if you can explain away ALL OBEs can you dismiss his testimony as frivolous.

Do you have any reason to dismiss ALL OBEs as pure fantasy or fabrication?

SIRTee15:
Na wa o, another mumbo jumbo in the Qur'an.
What did Muhammed think was Israel.

I have asked him to find me the verse in the quran to no avail : at least he should prove his insinuation

Kobojunkie:
1. According to Jesus Christ, all those who are born-again and are of the Kingdom of God, as a result, become like the angels - Luke 20 vs 36 & Matthew 22 vs 29 - 30 & Mark 12 vs 25. So, yes, those who are born-again are like the angels.

2. What has angels being real or not to do with what this man basically dreamed of? :-

Are Angels real?

Didn't you counter the fact that I said :
realities beyond the physical?

Your self appeal to counter ANYTHING spoken is not a good trait. It makes you a difficult person to be with.

honesttalk21:
Specifically Allah is described in
Quran 112 ( Purity/Sincerity)
Qul huwa All a hu ahad
Say, He is Allah, [who is] One (al-Ahad)
Allah hus-samad
Allah, the Eternal Refuge. (As-Samad)
Lam yalid wa lam yuu lad
He neither begets nor is born,
Wa lan ya kullahu kufwan ahad
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

E yah!
When you are lost of words and you can't refute questions without looking stupid.

I am sure you don't even know the meaning of Ahad. It doesn't mean One, it means "ONE OF". Ahad is used when discoursing an item/person amongst many

If I lie, except for one verse, Everywhere Ahad is used in the Quran, it is ONE of MANY!

Don't take my word for it, check!

Allah is just ONE of many Gods!

Kobojunkie:
Reality beyond what physical? The man had what amounts to a mental experience--- a delusion---, so where does your conclusion that it is beyond the physical come from?

Are Angels real or not?

Is this not an example of realities beyond the physical?

vdestro:
He also raised the issue of immediate judgment.

This is judgment in Hell (the holding place of the wicked). This was where the Rich man was placed while Lazarus was with Abraham

LordReed:
How is "His OBE!" an answer to the question "Why must I take his experience seriously?"?

How is "If it is true, what explanation do you have for it?" an answer to the question "Are all experiences to be taken seriously?"?

Does this look like the normal flow of a conversation to you?

Can you explain OBEs away especially where the subject report events or occurrences he cannot possibly be privy to?

Except you can conclusively say that his report is a fabrication, you have to take it seriously

Lukuluku69:
Allah swears by anything He Fills like. He does what He Wills.

Any other thing?

Exactly like pagans who can swear with the stones, the knife, the hill, the sun, the moon their mothers life.

Whoever wrote the quran is a Man swearing exactly like a Man.

The God of Abraham couldn't swear by Anything other than Himself

Heb 6:13-14:
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he swore by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you."

The Difference is clear!: the God of Abraham is Not Allah who swears like pagan humans

Lukuluku69:
Of cos it makes sense. Go to that Chapter where Allah call the Fig Tree to witness and understand it. You have the Quran don't you?

And Jesus CURSED IT because it symbolizes Israel. Israel Rejected him remember? They still do till date, they call him names, same for his Mother, called him a Liar, said he was a mad fellow, a Magician. As such he Cursed them symbolically. And till date, it stood. No single Prophet from that Nation of Reprobates. And that Kingdom of God ( typifies by Prophethood) was taken away and given to the Arabs. That is why they wanted him dead and not your fancy wishy washy growing in the telling lies foisted upon you lots by Paul

How can the Fig be called to witness when it cannot move to the point of swearing?

Are you saying that Allah is swearing by Israel?

1. Who is Israel according to Allah in the Quran?
2. Why is Allah swearing by Israel?

Kobojunkie:
1. Technically, what Jesus Christ said is that the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like children, not actually to children.
Jesus Christ compared those who are His followers to children pretty much every chance He got.
...
Jesus Christ was, however, definitive in stating that except a man is born-again — born of water and born of Spirit — He cannot step foot near the Kingdom of God. And of course, only those among the born-agains who are judged righteous at the end will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

2. I never did since I made clear Daniel was also a righteous man and hence was not crushed by the curse either.

3. You do understand what figurative speech is, right? That Joseph was reduced to bones does not mean the same as Joseph no longer exists. Joseph sleeping in his grave means Joseph still exists and will be resurrected when the Lord returns to raise the dead from their graves.

Jesus used a REAL child as an Example, didn't he?

Mt 18:4
The greatest person in God’s kingdom is the one who makes himself humble like this child.


Do you believe that Daniel died and returned to dust or not?

On Joseph, you are confusing yourself:
Does the word Dust according to God mean literal earth or not?
When a person dies, his body decay and become indistinguishable from the earth.

Even righteous men of old acknowledged that they will return to dust

Job 10:9:
"Remember, I beseech you, that you have made me as the clay; and will you bring me into dust again?"

Ps 103:14:
"For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust."

Eccl 12:7:
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it."