₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
How does your definition of cult exclude Christianity being a cult of the jew named Jesus?

Read my lips carefully!
Is Christianity a cult of Jesus?

You can loosely describe Christianity as a cult however can you define it as a cult of Jesus: this is the point of argument?

You'll need to tell me what Jesus benefit was in making disciples and eventually Christians.

LordReed:
LoLz. You are the one making the claim so you get to provide the evidence. Triplechoice made a claim and provided evidence, why do I need to do your work for you?

Sorry I don't have the time. If you do, please go ahead

LordReed:
As I have point out to triplechoice in the study he referenced, out of 2060 events studied only 1 was verifiable and it was not an OBE. So go ahead provide an example of a verifiable OBE.

That's for you to do if you care Or prove that OBEs where physical environments are described do not exist. I don't have the time

LordReed:
As I have point out to triplechoice in the study he referenced, out of 2060 events studied only 1 was verifiable and it was not an OBE. So go ahead provide an example of a verifiable OBE.

That's for you to do if you care Or prove that OBEs where physical environments are described

LordReed:
Where is the "sometimes objective" evidence of OBE?

Any example where the subject can tell you real time physical events happening around their environment like the surgical theatre and what each medical personnel was doing.

honesttalk21:
Didn't the Prophet Muhammad come to know the lamb meat was poisoned before consuming much of it?
"I said to myself: If he is a prophet he will be
informed. The sheep will inform him of what I did."

I feel as if [/b]my aorta is being cut from that poison

The phrase as if is used when
giving a possible explanation for something or saying that something appears to be the case [b]when it is not.

Who should we believe : You or Mohammed?
1. If Mohammed knew that the meat was poisoned, he must be one of the most wicked human beings on earth.
Even if he has the antidote, the fact that he didn't stop Bishr ibn al-Bara' ibn Ma'rur
al-Ansari from eating it till he died in their presence .

2. Mohammed clearly attributed his sickness to the meat he eat. Should we believe him or you?
Mohammed himself said:

Mohammed's Testimony:
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 4428
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

2. Sahih al-Bukhari 2617: Book 51, Hadith 49
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet (ﷺ) who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Messenger

3. Sunan Abi Dawud 4512 : Book 41, Hadith 19
Narrated Abu Hurairah:
.....
This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) ate of it and the people also ate.
He then said: Take away your hands (from the food), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr ibn al-Bara' ibn Ma'rur
al-Ansari died.
So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done?
She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I should rid the people of you. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then ordered regarding her and she was killed.
He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar.
This is the time when it has cut off my
aorta.

Kobojunkie:
1. But how do you ascertain whether the testimonies are true or not if the experiences are subjective?

NDEs are purely subjective.
OBEs within NDEs may sometimes be very Objective especially when the subject is able to describe real life/real time occurences which he ordinarily shouldn't be privy to.
Several OBEs have been reported where the subject described perfectly what each medical personnel was doing during their flat line or describe what was happening outside their bed/room space.
This is why such is described as OBE and not just NDE.
Attached is what one of the Atheist of NL posted

Kobojunkie:
2. You mean a starting point into religious stupor, and not Jesus Christ, right? Clearly, you cannot begin into truth by way of a lie— Jesus Christ said that.

No mam!
A starting point to know that there are non physical existence of Living Beings (God, Satan, demons, Angels)!

Every Atheist must cross this bridge before they can be pointed to the True God and His doctrine of salvation !

honesttalk21:
Arabic and Hebrew languages are Semitic however are you misinterpreting the Hebrew Al, El to that of Arabic?

Furthermore, in arabic copies of the bible for Christians in Arabic speaking nations, do you imply Allah written there is an idol?

Gen 1:1 in a bible written in Arabic.
https://marytn.medium.com/the-word-allah-in-the-arabic-bible-c39c71a58d2e

The name of the Deity of the Jews is Yahweh!

The name of the Deity of the Christians is Yahweh!

The modern name of the Deity of the Muslims is Allah


A Deity is simply WHATEVER Is WORSHIPPED by a people.

honesttalk21:
Ahad in arabic means what?

According to you one of.
Rely less on Wikipedia please.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for citations elsewhere on Wikipedia. As a user-generated source, it can be edited by anyone at any time, and any information it contains at a particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or simply incorrect.

One of the names of Allah, subhanahu wa taala, is al-Ahad, and this name with the al- in front of it should not be used as a name because it is specific to Allah.

And Ahad 99.9% of the times in the Quran mean ONE of (Many) or UNITY

Can you show me Other verses in the Quran where Ahad means One !

honesttalk21:
Bilal, the Ethiopian famous for first making the Adhan (call to prayer) and often making the call when he was alive and able; this giant of a man, this weak, famished and naked black slave didn’t give up. He was tortured in the desert, was dragged through Makkah with a rope tied to his neck, was beaten by the common folk; but he kept saying just one word “AHAD, AHAD, AHAD” (One, One, One) His proclamation of tawheed (Oneness of Allah) echoed through Makkah when no one else declared it publicly.

You should seek more knowledge of arabic language to understand the meaning and usage of Ahad as (One, unique) and one of. In context they are different.

In Quran 22:30
Apart from this, whoever respects the sacred ordinances of God, will find a better reward for him with his Lord. You are allowed to eat all cattle except those already mentioned to you. So avoid the filthiness of the idols, and avoid false speech

1. If Bilal was shouting Ahad! It shows that Ahad/Ehad is a word in use before Islam and thus not unique to Islam
2. Was Bilal the first Muslim: if before learning Islam, he already knew Ahad
3. You obviously don't know that the use of Ahad was copied from the Jewish shamah where the God of Israel is described as Ehad
4. Can you explain why Bilal as one of the first Muslim converts was never freed from slavery till he died? Can you also explain where Mohammed NEVER did the call to Prayers (was it a duty reserved for a slave) ?)

honesttalk21:
It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word “El”, which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word “Allah” than the English word “God.”
Allah: there is no god but Him, the Ever Living, the Ever Watchful. Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him. All that is in the heavens and in the earth belongs to Him. Who is there that can intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, but they do not comprehend any of His knowledge except what He wills. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth; it does not weary Him to preserve them both. He is the Most High, the Tremendous.”
Quran 2:255

You still don't get it. The Aramaic word spoken by Jesus was El-i, meaning MY DEITY/GOD.
The direct equivalent of Al-Lah in Hebrew is Eloah meaning DEITY/GOD.

El-, Eloah mean Deity/God exactly as used in English language. The question is WHICH Deity, Yahweh or Allah or Buddha! You tell me!?

honesttalk21:
Allah is the Arabic language word referring to "God", "the Lord" and, literally according to the Qur'an, to the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" in the Abrahamic religions.

It does not mean "a god", but rather "the Only God", the Supreme Creator of the universe, and it is the main term for the deity in Islam

This is a subtle Taqqiya : all modern Muslim say that Allah is the proper name of their God And that it doesn't mean God.

Can you find me any reference where Allah is the only God in Islam or the supreme creator in the Quran ?

honesttalk21:
When the Christians of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Egypt and say Allah or read a verse like Genesis Chapter 1 vs 1; tell us Tenq; do they refer to a Deity or the Supreme God.

Close by the musician Jeremiah in his song Allah na baka is referring to who please?

Let me ask you a question: Is the God referred to IN Gen 1:1 Yahweh or Allah or Buddha?

Just as in the use of God in English language, the context is what determine which God. Is this God Yahweh or Allah or Ogun or Tor? Only the context would determine that.

honesttalk21:
Allah is a proper noun and is the name of The Supreme Being, Creator of heavens and earth and is worshipped in all Abrahamic religions.

Ilah on the other hand is any object of worship. It can be Allah or any other. As a Muslim my ilah is allah and no one else.

But even in the Quran, Allah is not the Creator of Everything : is he?

You are just making a repetition. I have given you solid arguments to which you have no answer. The fact that Allah has been turned into a proper name doesn't mean that it had always been like that.

Don't forget that the three daughters of Lah also had AL- preceeding their names.
Al-Manat
Al-Uzzat
Al-Lat
It's thus not strange that the name Lah is preceeded with AL- as, Al-Lah!

Kobojunkie:
I see you didn't bother to at least peruse the article at all.

1. Your OP claimed He experienced this OBE as part of an NDE experience, but this article reports that there are those who probably experience what they refer to as OBEs —much like we experience dreams. And in this particular care, after a tumor was removed from the patient's brain, she no longer experience the OBEs. Seem's many of these experiences are from right there in the brain — subjective, right? And this case attempts to link it to activities in particular areas of the brain.

I don't have answers to NDEs & OBEs(neither do I of Psychotic experiences) at this point in time, but what I do know is this; They all have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God or Hell as described in Scripture so it is a lie to pretend they do.

Atheists are willing to take this path because it explains away God or Angels as Spirits, therefore the article carries no weight. I don't expect you to have answers to NDEs or OBEs: my argument to Atheists and not believers it that IF the testimonies are true, they prove that life can exist without flesh and blood! QED!

NDEs or OBEs should never constitute Doctrine for Christians as within the Bible is our doctrine found. NDEs and OBEs are not required for faith in Christ, however it may be a starting point for Skeptics who do not belive that life can exist without flesh and blood

honesttalk21:
Arabic and Hebrew languages are Semitic however are you misinterpreting the Hebrew Al, El to that of Arabic?

No sir.
Standard Arabic do not have letter E (as in egg) , this is not true with other semitic language who use letter A (as in apple) for E.
This Al-, El- or Il- are variants depending on the dialect.
You may confirm as Google is your friend.

honesttalk21:
Furthermore, in arabic copies of the bible for Christians in Arabic speaking nations, do you imply Allah written there is an idol?

Gen 1:1 in a bible written in Arabic.
https://marytn.medium.com/the-word-allah-in-the-arabic-bible-c39c71a58d2e

Allah just mean Deity!
It is a title and thus the question is which particular deity!
Is the Deity the Deity of Abraham or is the Deity the Deity of the Moabites or the Deity of the Amorites?
Google is also your friend.

triplechoice:
What is this ?



Where is the lack of courtesy.?

Your number 4 questions talks about evolution which has nothing to do with the ongoing conversation . Why should I answer it at this time when we are yet to finish with the business of describing soul and spirit

And even the DNA stuff . What has that got to do with spirit and soul .

I was the one that ask first . You didn't answer directly to my questions yet you accuse me of lacking courtesy . Oh

Then respond to yourself.

budaatum:
I qed-deded it!

My own subjective experiences of my mixed up NDE and OBE "show that life exist beyond the 3D space and biological brain" and "life exists beyond flesh and blood".

Okay!

KnownUnknown:
Yes. Same process

Okay!
I hear you.

triplechoice:
Good. So how did you come to accept ,just as you have done with 'electrical and electronics works ' that you have a spirit, through your own personal experience of working with your own body and the other parts of your invisible self ?

Or is the spirit and soul made of electrons



The above questions are not relevant to what I want you to explain . I think you want to deflect .

First if all ,describe everything you know about the soul and spirit to enable me see if it can be compared to an advanced AI.



An AI machine is something we can see or interact with physically . You have not demonstrated how we can interact with spirit or what it's , yet you want to compare it with an AI .

It doesn't make any sense .

Modified. I just noticed that you edited your reply . I will respond to your other explanations later

If you have no courtesy to reply to my questions, why do you think I should respond to yours

LordReed:
LMAO! i should only take seriously the OBEs and NDEs that confirm your specific beliefs. Right.

You didn't watch the video. See the screenshot.

Why should you take the testimony (if it is true) serious?
It shows that life exist beyond the 3D space and biological brain.

QED!

Even if the experiences is from spirits not of God! Life exists beyond fless and blood!

fergie001:
Olumuyiwa Adejobi, Force PPRO

Previous Thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/7694523/lets-kill-all-igbos-twitter#123225850

See his face!
He is now feigning remorse!!

jaephoenix:
So this verse was a lie then
Hebrews 9:27
King James Version
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Was the Resurrection of Lazarus or the Little girl a Lie?

gaskiyamagana:
This is another justification of your spiritual blindness as demonstrated by your unbelieving ancestors, l mean unbelievers in the time of Muhammad (saw). They often accused him that he knew nothing, how could he led them. Your dubious and doctored sources said so or you yourself conjectured it that '.... prophet doesn't even know what a spirit is...."?

It is easy to check
1. Does prophet Muhammad know what a spirit is?
2. What is a spirit?
3. Who is the Holy Spirit?

These are three Simple Questions

KnownUnknown:
F—- Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, and Krishna. You saw Mickey Mouse playing kickball with one of those blue Indian monkey gods.

If they are speaking the Truth
What if they are speaking lies?

KnownUnknown:
They are just dreaming.

If NDEs are dreams, are OBE also dreams?

budaatum:
I had my own subjective mixed up NDE and OBE experience and I now describe the unseen entire physical verifiable environment of the bar beach that I drank all up and the valium that jumped down my throat, so of course I was not asking any questions since it is my own subjective experience I report.

I see!

triplechoice:
I have read the above a thousand times here on Nairaland , and find it not really describing anything one can make sense of.

The physical body is known ,but not much is known by everyone about the soul and especially the spirit you mentioned .

It's the human being we are talking about here ,and since you are that ,you would need to demonstrate using your own personal experiences to confirm all the things you have declared about soul,spirit and mind.

1. First and foremost, I am a Christian and all my doctrines is from the Bible. I trust with my life the messages and information in the bathroom Bible.
2. The Bible is a book of History, Teaching, Admonition, Warning, Encouragement and not a book of Science and Philosophy
3. As a Rational being, I sometimes attempt to comprehend spiritual truths from the Bible with physical things for ease of understanding.
4. I therefore use Philosophy, Logic and Science as a Natural tool to aid understanding of the spiritual.
5. The summary is that I believe in the existence of a higher Dimension of invisible space with invisible beings where God, Angels, Demons have their domain

triplechoice:
So here we go .

1. What is spirit and its exact nature . How do you arrive at the conclusion that you have a spirit that is different from your body ,mind and soul . Share an experience of yours alongside your explanation to prove your have a spirit .

1. The Bible teaches so
2. I have a little privilege of casting out demons from a few people as described in the Bible using the name and power of Christ and have the same kind of manifestations as shown in the Bible.

Of course just as it is mundane to ask for the colour of electrons (I've never seen one), don't ask me for the physical description of demons.

A spirit is a non physical being!

triplechoice:
2. How do you know that another aspect of yourself is soul. What experiences of yours has confirmed this for you ?

The Person I call I, ME or MYSELF is not my physical body. You can surgically modify my body and I know that I would still keep my Identity as ME!

This is what is called my SOUL. My Personal Identity (my Soul) is defined by the three expressions of Emotion, Will and Intellect.

triplechoice:
3. Furthermore, how do you know that animals ,Angels and demons have soul and spirit.

The Soul is the Personal or Internal Identity of any being. Goat A and Goat B are different identities even to themselves. They individually experience emotions, think and make decisions just like me.

Angels and Demons are each individually different and they all express emotions, they are intelligent and have abilities to express their will.

triplechoice:
4 . And again, where is the spirit realm, and how do you function in that place as spirit while still occupying your physical body ?

My spirit is the least appreciated part of Me because I live in the Physical Space and I survive in this space using more of my Soul and Spirit. My Spirit is that which communicate Faith as a settled knowing to me even when the odds is exceptionality at variance with the expectation.
My Conscience with the sense of Morality are from the senses of my spirit man communicated to my soul.

Other than this, at death when my physical body is shed. I still will have my identity complete with my spirit body until the day of resurrection.

triplechoice:
5. Finally where is the mind located as subset of the soul .
There are more questions to come later ,but answer these ones first .

The Soul Expresses:
1. EMOTION
2. WILL
3. INTELLECT

The mind is our Cognitive sence for thinking which consists of our Will and Intellect: a subset of the expression of the Soul.

triplechoice:
Please don't ignore what I have said . Your answers must be with reference to your own personal expereinces ,if not ,it would mean you preached church doctrine alone and not facts .

Show me you have experienced what you have declared about the soul and spirit .

I think I've answered you.

I have done a lot of electrical and electronics works, I have never personally seen nor weighed nor measured an electron in my life, yet I believe electrons exist! How? I have applied them in circuits.
Same with the Issue of Spirit, Soul and Body.


Let me ask you a question:
1. Do you think there is a strong parallel between an advanced AI robot and a human being?
2. If the above were correct, if you open up the memory of the advanced AI robot, would you find the computer programs and the associated data in it?
3. Do you think that the DNA is like a book of instruction that spells out every little detail about a being?
4. Do you think in this physical space, a system of computer code, it's compiler and the associated hardware can self evolve?

budaatum:
https://www.nairaland.com/7726647/near-death-experience-atheist-professor/3#123800634

1. You didn't ask any question as I could see
2. You have mixed up NDE and OBE.

In NDE, you report the unseen (like in a dream)
In OBE, you report the physical verifiable environment of the subject

LordReed:
No thanks, I don't find them interesting.

This is also a result of you finding the truth

BTW:
There were no OBE in the testimonies
The testimonies were designed to teach new age doctrines and not a report.
Not withstanding!

LordReed:
LoLz. You didn't even watch the video. The guy says he had an OBE in it along with the NDE, watch it don't just read the tag line.

Besides you didn't answer the question, should I take this particular experience seriously or no?

The Bible says, "Test ALL Spirits whether they be of God"! To this end, no NDE report should be accepted as doctrine. Each one taken at their face falue. Haven said this,
Should you take this NDE serious?
I will say Yes if and only if the testimonies are true.
Should you make the testimonies a doctrine? Certainly Not!
Why shouldn't you make it a doctrine?
Because the individual may be under the influence of spirits not of God.


Why should you take the testimony (if it is true) serious?
It shows that life exist beyond the 3D space and biological brain.

I have reasons to discard these testimonies as weak however, this isn't the bone of contention!

LordReed:
LoLz. No I haven't.

Good for you. It means it's time to search

gaskiyamagana:
How can someone l assessed to be spiritually blinded understand my explanation of spirit and holy spirit?
He believes not in the Qur'an with which l will explain, have fake and Christianized saying of the Prophet (saw) and passionate about falsification and fabrication of lies about Allah, his creator, without Whom neither spirit nor holy spirit are existing.

When your prophet doesn't even know what a spirit is, how can the followers comprehend spiritual things?

Just tell me how!

To prove it I've asked a few questions :

What is a Spirit?
Who is the Holy Spirit?

LordReed:
Then why not to give us those ones to explore.

I don't have to as you have probably seen a few yourself