₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Another one they would not be able to validly defend.

I sometimes wonder if I should just make claims without giving evidences so that they can jump about like monkeys while one by one they are decimated by the truth.

Of course, I use this method for the sake of those who are content to just read the first page of a post without even making any contribution.

Their new argument is to say that since Mohammed didn't die immediately, it wasn't the poisoned Lamb that killed him.

LordReed:
How are dimensions influencing anything?

Correction please:
Space as in domain of influence in terms dimensions!

LordReed:
You can hide from yourself all you want but you are as transparent as a thin sheet of glass.

Thank God for that!

This was why Instead of focusing on the intellectual discussion ALL you are chasing is to prove that the spiritual doesn't exist.

With you, I've didn't even come to the level to talk anything akin to the spiritual!

LordReed:
Define space.

Space as in domain of influence of dimensions!

Maynthemayn:
I understand you, even if there is 4D, it will just be another ADDED dimension just like length, breadth, depth, it doesn’t mean it is a “realm” for worshipping one deity.

TenQ

The argument never even got close to this with you!

Instead of enjoying the stretching of imagination of the extension of 1D, to 2D to 3D and then to 4D, all you are seeing is that TenQ want you to worship his God!

This is myopic thinking!

LordReed:
You got it.

The argument never even got close to this with you!

Instead of enjoying the stretching of imagination of the extension of 1D, to 2D to 3D and then to 4D, all you are seeing is that TenQ want you to worship his God!

This is myopic thinking!

LordReed:
I never said you did, I said you are using 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D as if you talking about different realms.

No sir.

I've used them in terms of SPACE!

honesttalk21:
Indeed you are quite an Erist.
You must not accept alterior submissions which is absolutely fine.
It is consanguineal kinship in anthropology.
You are however too rigid with views.

Have you not seen Africans who call others from same village their Siblings?

I live you with your superior right arguments.

Since we are speaking about Semitic people and language,

1. I challenge you to find just ONE example where a person is referred to as "son of" a person not in his linage!

When you fabricate what is not there, you expect that I will just keep quiet?

2. If you wouldn't lie, (Even though all are sons of Abraham) can Mohammed be referred to as Son of Isreal OR son of Ismael OR both?

My guy, it's one of those lies told to you. The Arabs and Jews are Semitic, find examples for us

honesttalk21:
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Was Abraham going to graze Cattle at Mecca?
He is a remarkable forerunner of total submission to Allah. He took Hagai and Ishmael away.
Hagai asked him why he was abandoning them on barren land? Would grazing his cattle be the reason he went there? He left them with a skin sack of water that was soon exhausted before the following mercy of Zamzam water.

You can let us know your superior knowledge on the origin of Zamzam? This is still in existence today.

Yes Allah must be different from God as there is nothing like or comparable. No God Son, God father. No word is or can be associated with Allah in anyway as such.

Just one Question:
Please, where did you get the story of Abraham? Can you show us where Mohammed himself told this story?



Zamzam is a Fabrication just as the Blackstone of Muslims is a fabrication?

LordReed:
That was not his argument AT ALL.

You may defend him then!

AudioMonkey:
TenQ is muddled-up between theories and reality.
These are my discussions with him:
I never ever said other dimensions outside 3D don't exist. I only said as regards "space/objects" (matter or particle or whatever else physical objects), only 3D objects exist in real life.
0D/1D/2D/4D don't relate to real objects, rather they relate to "perception" of those objects and theoretical depiction of those objects, on paper for example.
You can "perceive" the 1D/2D view of a real-life object but the object itself is 3D in real-life.
You can depict the 2D cross-section of an object on paper but the object remains 3D in real life.
When you slice any object into millions pieces and view under microscope, you'll always see a 3D structure.
When you merge multiple objects, they don't form 4D object, you're still gonna end up with 3D object.

I understand since his infancy days and everywhere online @TenQ has been taught about 2D shapes and maybe 4D Tesseract, so he finds it hard to suddenly accept all these things don't exist in real life.
When you cut a circle or rectangle from cardboard or any flattest material ever possible, you'll end up with a 3D shape because no matter how infinitesimal, you'll find out it has a height/depth.
"Any object must posses all the 3 xyz or LBH before it can even exist in the first place."

I already attached a Google search supporting my explanation and told @TenQ to search online, Quora, Chatgpt or wherever else and show me real life 2D objects, but he couldn't. He rather kept on arguing blindly and confused.

I asked you a simple question:


Is a Triangle or a Circle 2D object ?

LordReed:
That is because that is the way you are using it! You are use 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D as if you talking about different realms.

Your relating 4D to a "spiritual realm" clearly shows what you are doing and why it is simply wrong.

Like I've said: I rarely used the word realms.
I'm not sure I've even used it once in this discussion

EVIDENCE FROM ISLAMIC SOURCES
But then, How did Mohammed Die?
A little History:
Zaynab bint Al-Harith was a Jewish woman who attempted to assassinate
Muhammad by poisoning after the battle of Khaybar after their defeat
fat the hands of the Muslims. In the course of negotiating the terms
of surrender, Zaynab volunteered to cook a lamb for Mohammed.
Mohammed took some of the lamb meat and chewed a morsel of it, but he
did not swallow it. Bishr b. al-Bara b. Ma’rur who was with him took
some of it as the apostle had done, but he swallowed it, while the apostle spat it out, saying, ‘This bone tells me that it is poisoned.’ Bishr became paralised and died shortly after.

Zaynab's Motivation:'
The Messenger of God called Zaynab, and said, "Did you poison the shoulder?" She said, "Who told you?" He replied, "The shoulder." She said, "Yes." He asked, "What persuaded you to do that?" She said, "You
killed my father, my uncle and my husband. You took from my people what you took. I said to myself: If he is a prophet he will be
informed. The sheep will inform him of what I did. If he is a king, we will be relieved of him."

From that time, Mohammed's health deteriorated badly and died with no
one able to help him recover.
Contrary to some modern Muslims recent narratives, here is what

Mohammed himself said:
Mohammed's Testimony:
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 4428
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

2. Sahih al-Bukhari 2617: Book 51, Hadith 49
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet (ﷺ) who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Messenger

3. Sunan Abi Dawud 4512 : Book 41, Hadith 19
Narrated Abu Hurairah:
.....
This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) ate of it and the people also ate.
He then said: Take away your hands (from the food), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr ibn al-Bara' ibn Ma'rur
al-Ansari died.
So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done?
She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I should rid the people of you. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then ordered regarding her and she was killed.
He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar.
This is the time when it has cut off my
aorta.

One of the verses that seeks to establish that the Quran is
the word of Allah is Quran 69:41-47?

What does it say?
Quran 69:41-47
41. It (the Quran) is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe! 42 Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive. 43 (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. 44 And if the apostle (Mohammed) were to invent any sayings in Our name 45 We should certainly seize him by his right hand 46 And We should certainly then cut off his iorta 47 Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).

What was Allah saying?
1. Mohammed is just his messenger and the Quran from his mouth is
neither the words of a poet nor a soothsayer
2. The Quran is the Message sent by Allah himself
3. If Mohammed should INVENT or FABRICATE any sayings in the Quran,
Allah himself will seize him by his hands and CUT off his iorta
4. No one will be able to save or deliver Mohammed from this judgement of Allah.
So, How would we know if Mohammed inserted lies or fabrication
in his Quran
1. Allah stated the method of execution: his iorta will be severed
2. Allah that no one can deliver him: everyone would be helpless to help him




So, we can say actually what killed Mohammed: a Poison that cut off
his Aorta according to the words of Allah.

EVIDENCE AVAILABLE NEXT PAGE


Question:
1. Since we know that everything is destiny in Islam, Did Allah
destined Zaynab to Poison Mohammed?
2. What chapters and verses of the Quran was fabricated by Mohammed
that Allah had to execute judgement of severing his aorta and making
sure he cannot be helped?
3. If Jesus was delivered from death, why do you think that the
greatest Messenger was not delivered from this excruciatingly painful
slow death? Was Allah torturing Mohammed for his sin?



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LordReed:
Then your statement is just an exercise in taking something to absurdity for no reason since you aren't really disagreeing. A meridian, longitude and latitude are not real objects just concepts for describing the earth for location purposes same with the dimensions we are discussing.

A triangle is a concept and exists as much as concepts exist. Also you can make an object the follows the principles of the concept of a triangle that would also be described as a triangle so yes triangle can be an object.

If the Triangle can be an object, then all his arguments fall flat. The only problem anyone can have is when they want to say that a Triangle must be perfectly flat and infinitely thin.

His arguments were
1. Only 3D exist and 1D, 2D or 4D are just excercise on paper
2. Only 3D objects exist

This was why I asked: if a circle or square be 2D object.

LordReed:
When are you going to understand that dimension doesn't mean realm? A dimension is a descriptive term for a type of measurement. Length, breath, height, time, etc are all the dimensions that describe the universe we live in. They are not realms!

If you checked carefully, I have been very hesitant to use the word realm! I have extensively spoken about spatial dimensions only extending it into the 4D.
AND because this is NOT pure science nor a discussion of Mathematics, I related 4D to the spiritual comparing and relating observables that could occur.

Also, even though I could use time as a dimension, to keep this simple, I have removed it from the subject of discussion.

My argument had consistently been that if their was a 4th dimension of length (a spatial dimension), there is no way we can observe it. QED!

Dream17:
Nice topic, @TenQ. I find the subject of higher dimensions to be very interesting. Hopefully, I might contribute to this when I'm less busy and have read the OP properly. Bookmarked.

No problem!
Anytime you are chanced. It's a field of many unknowns and we all seek better understanding.

Mind you, as a Christian, I also see higher dimensions in other perspective: I don't claim my position is the reality, but it helps to explain the supernatural in natural point of view

LordReed:
Wait are you saying you think the meridians exist as real objects as opposed to concepts used to describe the world?

Meridians are not real objects just as 3D space or 2D space or 1D space are not objects. Things within them are objects!

Is a triangle an object or they don't even exist!

LordReed:
That's not what AudioMonkey said or meant.

I helped him to blow what he said.

His argument was that every other dimensions other than 3D does not exist. If they don't exist, then objects within don't either

So I asked him if a Triangle or a Circle are 2D Objects or not.

Whatever makes 3D to exist will make both 1D and 2D exist for they are tools we use to comprehend our space

LordReed:
Actually it is not as clear cut as I assumed. There are some experiments which indicate that direction but not overtly so.

Stuff like certain exact solutions of Einstein's field equation, two-state vector formalism (TSVF) in quantum mechanics, Feynman's interpretation of the positron as an electron moving back in time, tachyons which appear to move backwards in time and so on. All these point to retrocausality but obviously there needs to more work done to be certain.

It's okay!

That was why I said:
Retrocausality is still a theory and these idea remain highly controversial and are not yet widely accepted within the scientific community.

An interesting watch



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvHNatZgVI

Kobojunkie:
1. Let me start by explaining to you what it means to be born of water(born-again). To be born of water means that you submit to the Baptism of Repentance preached by John the Baptist and then reaffirmed by Jesus Christ. According to John the Baptist, this Baptism of Repentance mandates an abandoning of the Old Law of Moses and nation -- and the old man who lived under the stipulations of the Old Law --- to embrace instead life and living under God’s New Law and Nation of Priests--- becoming a new man whose life is lived under the stipulations of the New Law.

Just as the Old Law was the only Fountain of Living Waters for those who lived under it, in much the same way, the New Law becomes the only Fountain of Living Waters from which those who born of it are to quench their thirsts from hence born of water. What the baptism of repentance also means is that one is no longer to venture back to the Old Law in search of rules to live by. This baptism is marked by the washing of one with water to mark the end of the Old and the beginning of the New. And it is not how it is done that is of importance but rather the reasoning behind the ritual that matters.

Hopefully, from the above, you can easily see why no follower of Jesus Christ should — against God — jump back and forth between the Old Law and the New Law as far as the teachings and commandments of God. And I hope it also helps you understand why Jesus Christ warned against mixing Old wine with New wine.

There is nothing else to say to you


Like I said:

Modern day sons of Belial and the Balaam of our generation will say leave sin and sinners alone, love the sinners by accommodating their sin.

Lev 18:22:
"You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act."

honesttalk21:
TENQ
But no thanks 😉

Luke 1:36
And now, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren.

For though Elisabeth was of the daughters of Aaron, or of the tribe of Levi by her father's side, yet might be of the tribe of Judah by her mother's side, and so akin to Mary.

1. Elizabeth was a Cousin of Mary and NOT the Sister of Mary.
2. Zakariyah the husband of Elizabeth was from the Tribe of Levi (the tribe of Aaron), this is why he could be a Priest as only descendants of Aaron can become priests in Israel!

What is your evidence that Elizabeth was from the tribe of Levi?

honesttalk21:
In ancient Semitic usage, a person’s name was often linked with that of a renowned ancestor or founder of the tribal line. Thus, for instance, a man of the tribe of Banu Tamim was sometimes addressed as “son of Tamim” or “brother of Tamim.” Since Mary belonged to the priestly caste, and hence descended from Aaron, the brother of Moses, she was called a “sister of Aaron,”

Another subtle Islamic Taqqiya: this applies only if they are direct lineage to one another. Mary does NOT belong to a Priest class.

The children of Israel has 12 Tribes, you can only be called according to your Lineage.

Mary can be called the daughter of David because she is a descendant of David (from the tribe of Judah) . Mary cannot be said to be the daughter of anyone else not in her lineage.

If you doubt this:
I challenge you to find just ONE example where a person is referred to as "son of" a person not in his linage!

If you wouldn't lie, (Even though all are sons of Abraham) can Mohammed be referred to as Son of Isreal OR son of Ismael OR both?

My guy, it's one of those lies told to you. The Arabs and Jews are Semitic, find examples for us

honesttalk21:
COPIED

copied the following information from Wikipedia: ‎

“Descent of the Testes

At an early period of fetal life the testes are placed at the back part of the ‎abdominal cavity. ‎The descent of the testes consists of the opening of a connection from the testis ‎to its final location at the anterior abdominal wall, followed by the development of ‎the gubernaculum, which subsequently pulls and translocates the testis down ‎into the developing scrotum. ‎

Descent of the Ovaries

Just as in the male, there is a gubernaculum in the female, which effects a ‎considerable change in the position of the ovary, though not so extensive a ‎change as in that of the testis.”
In this case the origin of these gonads is from that area in the back of the abdominal cavity between the ribs and the vertebral column (backbone).

Truly, Allah knows best.

Then Allah says, He is created from a water gushing forth which means, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. The backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).
Ibn Kathir Quran 86:6-7

You are prone to repeating Conjectures by Islamic Apologists who are performing Taqqiya on both Muslims and everyone else

I will ask you just one question:
1. What is the name of the yellow sexual fluid from the ribs of the woman that becomes a baby after contact with the male reproductive fluid?

honesttalk21:
The fable of the sleepers as you say is believed by some orthodox Christians and the Catholics who you say are scarcely different from muslims.


During the persecution of Christians (250 CE) under the Roman emperor Decius, seven (or eight in some versions) Christian soldiers were concealed near their native city of Ephesus in a cave to which the entry was later sealed. There, having protected themselves from being forced to do pagan sacrifices, they fell into a miraculous sleep. During the reign (408–450 CE) of the Eastern Roman emperor Theodosius II, the cave was reopened, and the Sleepers awoke. The emperor was moved by their miraculous presence and by their witness to their Christian doctrine of the body’s resurrection. Having explained the profound meaning of their experience, the Seven died, whereupon Theodosius ordered their remains to be richly enshrined, and he absolved all bishops who had been persecuted for believing in the Resurrection.

Reports of history are subject to some bias most times.
Allah knows best

Please show me one single reference that show that Christians/Catholics believed the story of the Seven Sleepers as REAL!

Unfortunately, Muslims do not realise that if the story of the seven sleepers was true, it validates Christianity as TRUE and not Islam?

Is the story of Suleiman that died for almost one year standing on his feet and no one was aware also true?

honesttalk21:
@TENQ
And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?”

He (Jesus pbuh) will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.

But this your quote below is a blatant FABRICATION by one who neither knows God nor live like a person who is used by God. The source ALSO failed the test of Allah for it woefully!

And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?”

Now that I did NOT reference Paul, what's your take
TLB Lev 18:22:
"Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin."

NLT'15 Lev 20:13:
""If a man practices homosexuality , having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

Kobojunkie:
○ I took the liberty of deleting much of the references that matter nothing to this here conversation since we are on the subject of Jesus Christ --- the Fountain of Life from which all born-agains are meant to drink from so as to help you overcome your constantly confusing the New with the Old. Now on to the issue at hand.

1. My mention of Love was in reference to that which Jesus Christ called us to but since you insist on using Paul as your reference you should at least try to understand him from the perspective that is Jesus Christ.

According to Jesus Christ, righteousness is as defined by Him --- His teachings and commandments--- which He urged His followers to live and judge everything by. Jesus Christ never in fact condemned nor did He suggest it a sin in the Kingdom of God. What this means is in fact that Homosexuality IS NOT UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in the Kingdom of God. Rather what would constitute unrighteousness in the Kingdom of God is that clearly explained by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5 vs 27 - 28 which most of you conveniently gloss over.

So when Paul urged you not to rejoice over unrighteousness and unrighteousness is as defined by Jesus Christ surely you know that isn't license for you to go around attacking those you do not like pretending they are unrighteousness. Jesus Christ never gave His Law to you to add whatever definition of unrighteousness you please. Jesus Christ gave you His Law for you to live by and not for you to go around tweaking and imposing on others as you feel like it.

2. As for those whom Jesus Christ kicked out of the Temple --- the one and only HOUSE of God that ever existed on earth, by the way----, right in that passage you are told exactly why He did so and the reason had to do with the Old Covenant which He lived by, a Covenant He did not call His followers to live according to.

What else can one say?
Isa 5:20:
"Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Like I said:

But modern day sons of Belial will say leave sin and sinners alone, love the sinners by accommodating their sin.

Lev 18:22:
"You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act."

A detestable act some people want us to accept as normal. The Balaam in our midst who corrupted Israel with Immortality.

Num 31:16:
"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit sin against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and the plague was on the congregation of the LORD."

Kobojunkie:
Stop using the mention of Jesus Christ to cover up for what is your prejudice. If you cannot even love your neighbor as you love your own self, how can you then pretend to know Jesus Christ?

This is NOT Love
At best it is LUST!

1Cor 13:4-7:
"Love is patient, love is kind; love does not envy; love does not boast, is not arrogant; does not behave disgracefully, does not seek its own, is not provoked to anger, thinks no evil; does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

Here is an example from our Master showing LOVE

Mar 11:15-17:
"And they came to Jerusalem. And when Jesus entered into the temple, He began to throw out those selling and buying in the temple, and He overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those that sold doves. And He would not permit anyone to carry a vessel through the temple. And He was teaching, saying to them, „Is it not written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS'? But you have made it a 'DEN OF THIEVES!' ”"


But modern day sons of Belial will say leave sin and sinners alone, love the sinners by accommodating their sin.

Lev 18:22:
"You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act."

A detestable act some people want us to accept as normal. The Balaam in our midst who corrupted Israel with Immortality.

Num 31:16:
"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit sin against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and the plague was on the congregation of the LORD."

Bossly:
You Neva even start, you go cry Taya

You crane remains ruined.

And Finland is Free from fear

Smartguyboy:
Russia only started annexing Ukraine when they made they intentions know about joining NATO USA will do the same thing Russians are doing to protect they neighbor I am not supporting anyone just looking at if from the different side if USA is in position of Russian will could have happen.

And Finland!?

Bossly:
Donate more tears 😭
Ukraine remains ruined, western hegemony is next!

You crane 🇺🇦
You crying 😭

We'll see!

StudyBarn:
Ask the Kalibr class missiles.
Lol the UK colonized Nigeria
Ukraine was the playground and farm for the Russian empire for centuries.

When Nigeria joins an Anti-UK defense pact and the cruise missiles start falling we can discuss the ownership of Nigeria.

And yeah the African colonies are still totally owned by the colonial masters and their corrupt, drug addled minions ruling the countries kinda like Ukraine.

I'm sure you never heard of Kyivan-Rus in your life. Learn your history!


If you can claim that Great Britain, France and Portugal own Africa, what else is there to say than to walk away before one get bitten