₦airaland Forum

Maynmaynmayn:
If all three axes in a three-dimensional space are constrained to zero, it effectively means that the object is restricted to a single point. When all three dimensions collapse to zero, the object loses any extent or spatial size. It becomes an infinitesimally small point in space.

In this scenario, the object no longer possesses any dimensions or the ability to move or exist in any spatial direction. It is static and confined to a single location in the zero-dimensional space.

This hypothetical object, reduced to a point with zero extent, loses the concepts of length, width, and height. It becomes indistinguishable from other points in the space, effectively merging with them.

Exactly!
This is what I've been saying!

Now, can we agree then that
1. 0 D space is a subset of a 1 D space which is a subset of of a 2D space and the 2D space is a subset of the 3D space
2. There are infinite number of 0D space within a 1D space and an infinite number of 1D space within a 2D space and there exist an infinite 2D space within a 3D space!

Negroid001:
Same with Christianity. Incomplete Books. Dark ages. Brainwashed idiots like you.

When they have NOTHING to say again, their nature starts manifesting
Have a nice day!

Maynmaynmayn:
Dimension exists SOLELY for physical objects.
First look up the definition of “dimensions” and why it is needed.

In a one-dimensional space, objects are represented as lines or curves along a single direction. This dimension is often used to describe objects that have length but no width or height. Examples of one-dimensional objects include a piece of string, a wire, or a straight road.

In a two-dimensional space, objects are represented on a plane, defined by two perpendicular axes (such as x and y). This dimension allows for the description of objects with length and width, but no height.

If a supernatural being and angels are not physical object why do they need to have dimensions talkless of having more and more dimensions?

You are not getting the point

In 3D space, the three axis x, y and z are unconstrained: therefore objects can move in any direction

In 2D space, one of the axis is constrained to zero: therefore objects can only move in a plane

In 1D space, two of the axis is constrained to zero: therefore objects can only move in a line

What then happens to this hypothetical object when the three axis are constrained to zero?

Leave the supernatural for now

Maynmaynmayn:
You don’t understand what you are saying.

Yes 1D and 2D are used to explain PHYSICAL OBJECTS, if a thing is not a physical object why do they need to have dimensions?

The question is do they exist or not?

Do you know anything that exist in 1D or 2D space?

Maynmaynmayn:
There is nothing like 0D. If there are no dimensions why do you need volume?
I asked you earlier what is dimension and why is it needed.
dimensions necessary for describing and understanding physical objects. Dimensions provide the framework for measuring and quantifying various aspects of objects and their properties. In the context of physics, dimensions play a crucial role in defining the size, shape, position, and motion of objects.

If the supernatural powers and angels are not physical why do they need to have dimensions talkless of more dimensions?

It seems you just want to argue for argument sake. Is there anything as 1D or 2D in the Universe?

LordReed:
I already said my view, you are ignorant of what you are trying to discuss. You think science fiction indicates reality and of course I get it, you are really invested in stories. You are just looking for validation but I won't give it to you, when you actually have even a modicum of an idea of what you are trying to discuss then maybe we can but for now you are just stewing in ignorance.

No one has read your views!

You are not confident of yourself!?

Maynmann:
a zero-dimensional space does not correspond to an infinitesimally small point within a 3D space. Instead, a zero-dimensional space refers to a space that has no dimensions at all.

In a zero-dimensional space, there are no coordinates or directions to describe positions or movements. It is a point-like entity with no extent or size. In this context, a person within a zero-dimensional space would not have any physical attributes or experiences. It is not accurate to say that the person would believe they are alone in the whole universe because concepts like belief and perception are not applicable in a zero-dimensional space.

What is the hypothetical size of anything in 0 D?

LordReed:
I already told you how to correct your misunderstanding but you continue to wallow in ignorance. LoLz.

Are you afraid of saying your own view in case you look stupid?

The ball is in your court!

Maynmann:
Your explanations are wrong. Dimensions can occur independently of each other. That’s why i ask what does “dimension” mean.

Here below is where I specified what I mean by SPATIAL DIMENSIONS



Spatial dimensions are axes of space that we can move through like the x, y, and z axis that we can move through.

Let's go on a journey of dimensions by imagining a 3D space (as we are familiar with it).

Existence in Zero Dimension:
Zero Dimension is just an infinitesimally small point within a 3D space. A person within a zero Dimensional space is static and he would believe he's alone in the whole universe. Words like velocity, distance, Area, Volume or Space would be nonsensical to him.

Existence in One Dimension:
One Dimension is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of zero dimensions in a straight line. A person within a one dimensional space within a 3D space is unaware of the fact that he's in a 3D space. It is impossible for him to know if he's in the X or y or z directions as these are meaningless to him. Measurements of distance, speed make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of area or volume or space. You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 1D.
A paradox:
even when he is seen from the 3D space as alined in x or y or xz directions, it is oblivious to him.

Existence in Two Dimensions:
A Two Dimensional space is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of one dimensions in a straight line stacked on upon the other. A person within a Two dimensional space within a 3D space is unaware of the fact that he's in a 3D space. It is impossible for him to know if he's in the xy or yz or xz planes as these are meaningless to him.
Measurements of area, displacement, velocity, volume, area density make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of area or volume or height. You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 2D.
Paradox:
When an object is placed in a closed loop, he believes that it is scientifically impossible to bring out the object from within the loop without breaking the loop.
Of course, those of us who live within the 3D space will laugh at his folly. When such a feat is done before him by someone in the 3rd dimension, he concludes that it must be a miracle

Existence in Three Dimensions:
A Three Dimensional space is an assembly of infinitely large numbers of Two dimensions stacked on upon the other. A person within a Three dimensional space within a 4D space is unaware of the fact that he's in a 4D space. It is impossible for him to know if he's in the xyza or xyzb or xyzd volumes as these are meaningless to him.
Measurements of area or volume or height, displacement, velocity, volume, area density make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of anything outside the 3D.

Just as the person in the 1D or 2D space, You will find it difficult to convince him that it is possible to have a higher dimension than 3D.

Paradox:
When an object is placed in a closed volume, he believes that it is scientifically impossible to bring out the object from within the volume without breaking the volume.
Of course, those who live within the 4D space will laugh at his folly. When such a feat is done before him by someone in the 4th dimension, he concludes that it must be a miracle

Christians have always spoken about God, Angels, Demons and the Spiritual Realm which in this case is at dimensions higher than 3 dimensions. We cannot tell if their dimensions is the 4th or 5th or 6th....1000th.
Atheists understandably think that any dimension higher than 3D is a figment of imagination.

Note:
Time is NOT a dimension: time is a measure of intervals between events in 1D, 2D, 3D , 4D space


Question:
1. Is it reasonable to conclude unequivocally that higher dimensions than 3D do NOT exist in the Universe?
2. What kind of experiments would you advise scientists in the 2D world conduct to prove the existence of the 3D space?
3. Let's assume that by some Stroke of massive intelligence, scientists in the 2D space have perfect scientific knowledge of their space, would this knowledge be adequate in the 3D space?
4. We know that a person in a higher dimension can interact with those in the lower dimensions: is the converse possible?

HellVictorinho6:
WHAT IS OUR 3D SPACE?

This is the Spatial coordinates through which energy and forces can interact with matter in our universe!
In Cartesian coordinates, we speak of the x, y and z directions and these three constitute our allowed vector that projects our 3D space.

Maynmann:
What about no dimensions like a dot?
it is important to clarify what is meant by "lower" and "higher" dimensions. In mathematics and physics, dimensions refer to the number of independent coordinates required to specify a point in a space. In this sense, a lower dimension refers to a space with fewer coordinates needed to describe it, while a higher dimension corresponds to a space with more coordinates.

Check first page of this discuss: I explained each of the dimensions from 0 D to 1D , 2D and 3D. Then I asked a few questions one of which is it ask if higher dimensions like 4D, 5D or 6D is impossible and another is that if extra Dimensions exist over our 3D, would we be able to perceive them!

LordReed:
Abstract issues based on misunderstanding are NIL. LoLz.

I expect you to at least understand what you are trying to discuss first before plunging in senselessly.

Even though You've said nothing of value let me oblige you.
Now that you are least understand what I was trying to discuss, why don't you make your correction and lead the conversation!

Sorry, I forgot!
You've got nothing to say but you just need to be seen to be talking!

Maynmann:
Heard of “Monad”?
I don’t think any “supernatural being” will be any more complex because more dimensions mean more complexity, rather they will be the simplest thing ever like a dot where dimensions originate from.

No sir.
A lower dimension is technically infinite levels below the next higher dimensions.

KnownUnknown:
Your attempts at placing your god and other supernatural nonsense into “higher dimensions” blinds you to the fact that anyone can place anything they can’t prove in “higher dimensions”. For instance, leprechauns are 5D beings.

All you need to do is understand the difference in complexity between 2D and 3D then use your imagination to work out the difference between 3D and the elusive 4D or higher. A lower dimension is just a tiny "slice" of the higher dimension

Maynmann:
There can’t be a person in any just particular dimension.
For there to be a person it requires height, width and length.
You made example of 2D and 1D, is a paper and a Dot “persons”?

Okay!

Maynmann:
Spatial Dimension can only affect us, we if there are higher dimensions that can’t be of the same material like us “matter”.
We need 3D for basic directions in which we can move are up/down, left/right, and forward/backward.
Now if there are higher dimensions and they are not us why do they need to move up/down, left/right, and forward/backward?

Please, first read "Flatland"!
Then my introduction (first page)

It seems we are speaking different things

A person in any particular dimension cannot comprehend anything above his dimension

Maynmann:
You don’t know what “formless matter” mean then.
Before talking about higher dimensions, you should first check what dimension means.
And also we call it 3D because that’s what we can observe, length, height and distance.
How are you sure that higher dimensions also have this same exact length, height and distance?
It could be another thing, so what’s dimension?

I have been talking only about SPATIAL DIMENSIONS since the beginning of this!

Are you saying unequivocally that we cannot have a higher spatial dimension that 3D? How do you know?

Formless matter speaks of
Primordial Chaos
Quantum Field
Energy
Or even Consciousness

I am not discussing formless matter

HellVictorinho6:
what is everything?

Everything as unique items within our 3D space that is capable of been Quantified. Example Energy, Matter, Space.

Maynmann:
Look up “formless matter”.

The discussion about Formless matter is higher than what I speak about. It is a thought philosophical question about the possibility of higher spatial dimensions existing other than the 3D space we are conversant with. Except in 3D space, objects Dimensions is zero except in the direction allowed by their constraining spatial dimension

A good starting point may be to read the
Novel "Flatland" by Edwin A. Abbott.

You can use ChatGPT to read a summary

The universe is EVERYTHING within the 3D space including Space, Matter and Energy.

The location can only be described relative to our position on the earth: meaning, everything around us.

It seems like our universe is a subset of a higher dimension other than the 3D spatial dimension to which our universe is constrained.

Maynmann:
I never made mention of 3D
“ Using your argument, matter can only exist in 3D, therefore even the hypothetical person in 1D or 2D cannot even exist!”

Matter needs a dimension to exist whether one or 100, it doesn’t matter.

I am agreeing with you can't you see?

LordReed:
You obviously since you don't even know what dimension means.

Thank you.

I've been enjoying my discussion with intelligent guys on this thread!

It's not my fault your ability to comprehend abstract issues is next to Nil!

Since it seem you are incapable of doing some "thought experiments" , what do you expect me to do?

Wilgrea7:
While I do think your explanation of the body, spirit and soul are quite interesting, I feel like they seem to fail in taking several things into account.

But before I continue on this point, I want to make sure I'm not mischaracterizing or misrepresenting your position. So please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that the spirit and soul, in addition to the body, make us somewhat more than just 3-dimensional beings?

That by the alleged existence of these things, we are perhaps 4th dimensional beings, experiencing multiple 3-dimensions at once, just as a cube can be seen as a collection of multiple slices of a square?

At the risk of overstretching my apologies and illustration using the Body, Soul and Spirit.
I believe that humans were created to be able to function in both the physical space AND the spiritual space. The fact that we all inherited a defective Spirit (which would have helped us to function in the higher dimensions) has made us locked more or less into the 3D spatial dimension.

One of the hypothetical questions I asked was:
Is it possible to have a non-integer dimension like 3.1D or 3.6D or 3.9D?

My argument is that it would be technically impossible for a person in 2D space to comprehend anything from the 3D space because, ANYTHING he sees from the 3D space will have the form of 2D and this doesn't improve his knowledge of the higher dimensions one bit.

Wilgrea7:
I think NDEs are also interesting. And if someone chooses to follow a certain religion after an NDE, then good for them. However, from my knowledge of NDEs, they seem incredibly skewed in favor of information the recipient already knows. For example, I'm yet to see an atheist or another theist who had never heard about Jesus or Christianity, have an NDE and come back to talk about him.

NDEs seem heavily reliant on the information the individual already knows (not necessarily believes) at the point of death.

As far as evidence goes, there's no other credible form of evidence we can really turn to. So it becomes a tricky situation. Very similar to elements A and B in the flatland example I gave earlier. So basically, it becomes a case of "we don't know", and "there's no way for us to know right now".

I've never made the claim that reality or our existence happened by "accident"

I think experiences of NDE isn't supposed to show us Religion or the way of Salvation BUT the fact that life CONTINUES after death.

Moreover, I think NDEs is like travelling to a strange planet and experiencing a small subset of the environment.
Eg. If an Alien is transported temporarily to planet Earth for a few hours, his experience will depend on where he landed.
Is it somewhere in
- the Amazon Forest
- New York city
- Ojuelegba in Lagos
- Kalahari Desert
- Alaska etc
Of course, there could be variations in experiences even if there are some overlap of similarities.

NDE just tell us that life continues after death, QED!

Wilgrea7:
I agree with you that complexity exists, and this is something that does plague my mind. I will try to rephrase it this way.

1. Something exists (matter, laws of physics, dimensions, everything that is not nothing)
2. This something is incredibly complex

The question isn't resolved by pointing to a higher dimension. Because then we need to ask why a more complex and higher dimension would exist.

Even if you point to a God, a god is technically the highest level of complexity. Something we are not supposed to be able to fathom, but something nonetheless. So why is there something rather than nothing? And why is this something the way it is?

That's the real question. Higher dimensions, gods, and so on don't solve the question. they just push them a step further. But the fundamental question still remains.

If we cannot fully comprehend our existence within our spatial dimension, what hope do we have to comprehend a higher spatial dimension?

I think it is like a computer asking humans how many gigabytes of storage is installed in them or how fast our CPU is.

At a point, we must be humble enough to know that some frontiers of knowledge is beyond us. Such is at the Level of the Uncaused First-Cause of Everything aka God!

The best of our questions in unraveling God would be very silly!

Wilgrea7:
Yes, you are correct. However, what I'm trying to avoid, is making the same mistake you mentioned earlier. that even if a 2d being had complete understanding of the 2d plane, it wouldn't equate to an understanding of higher dimensions.

These things you've listed are things we understand about OUR dimension. If reality includes higher dimensions, then it is entirely possible that these constraints may simply not exist there.

I think we just have to get to a point where we conclude that it is impossible to comprehend with our existing facilities our present reality because it seems we are just a tiny subset of something infinitely higher than us.

I guess as Christians, we have resolved this totality of higher dimensions to be from God the Creator and Source of Everything.
Atheists on the other hand seem to believe that everything can be resolved within our present realities with more knowledge.

Who's stance is wrong and who's stance is right? Except if it can be proved that it is impossible to have a higher dimension AND it can be shown that we can attain a complete knowledge of our 3D space, I think the stance of the Christians is reasonable!

Wilgrea7:
Depends on what you mean by creator. Let me explain.

Bill gates is known as the creator of microsoft. However, bill gates is not eternal. He was also created, i.e, given birth to. I don't think anyone would logically refer to Bill gates' parents as the conscious creators of microsoft. Sure you can credit them indirectly, but the ideas, innovation and effort that went into making microsoft was the conscious effort by Bill gates, not his parents.

Similarly, I think it is fully possible for a creator to also have a beginning. If higher dimensions exist, and beings in the higher dimensions possess something similar to what we call consciousness, then they can, on their own volition, if they have the ability, create other beings.

Infinite regress isn't necessarily violated, but the conscious effort of the specific creation isn't also attributed to the "first creator"

This is another way i see it

At least in our 3D spatial dimension, we know that infinite regress of Cause and Effect is impossible. It would be nativity to try to comprehend a higher dimension by what exist in our own dimension. Why?
1. Our existence is strictly a minor subset of the higher dimensions
2. Things that exist in a higher dimension may be completely absent in our own dimension.
Eg
In our dimension, Nothing can come into existence from nothing
However,
It is possible that Nothing come out into existence in our dimension from nothing if such thing is brought into our existence from a higher dimension.

Maynmann:
Read slowly; if there’s no dimension there can’t be matter hence there can’t be a person.

You don't get it!?
I am agreeing with you

LOL!

LordReed:
And it's not my fault you want to wallow in ignorance.

3D to 4D, who is the one in ignorance?
Sorry, step up!

LordReed:
LoLz. What is the point of a thought experiment built on misunderstanding?

Sorry bro: it's not my fault you cannot cope!

Scarcity234:
A question for you...

Did I create the bacteria knowing fully well that it will harm me?
Did I create the bacteria and gave it its instinct, then turn around to kill it??

Why created what you will torment for doing what you created it for??

If you had created the bacteria, you would have had more right to terminate their existence but you didn't hence, justify why you are not a genocidal mass murderer?

Simeonjoe1:
Death is death. Any other talk na controversy

Have it your way please!

LordReed:
What is the issue on ground? The fact that you can't produce any scientific or philosophical backing or the fact that you are using a satirical work of science fiction as your textbook. LoLz.

Since it seem you are incapable of doing some "thought experiments" , what do you expect us to do?
Please, go Work on your capabilities dude!
It's just a function of your IQ!

Sorry!

Maynmann:
“Zero Dimension is just an infinitesimally small point within a 3D space. A person within a zero Dimensional space is static and he would believe he's alone in the whole universe. Words like velocity, distance, Area, Volume or Space would be nonsensical to him.”

If there’s no dimension there can’t be matter hence there can’t be a person.

Using your argument, matter can only exist in 3D, therefore even the hypothetical person in 1D or 2D cannot even exist!

Negroid001:
I'm not a Muslim. The Bible also has many inaccuracies.

The Qur'an was DICTATED as a VERBATIM words of Allah through Jubril to Mohammed. The Bible is written by Human beings like you and me because they were commissioned by God to write for posterity!

There are mistakes that God can never make

1. Allah dictated the Qur'an isn't it: then he must be perfect without errors. However, when Allah says women have sperms coming from their chest one and men have sperms from their backbone, we wonder if the author of the Qur'an was God.

2. If Allah can claim that the Sun sets in murky waters, we wonder if he can be God!
A proof that the Quran is the work of an unlearned Arabian man

3. If Allah can tell the story of Solomon Dieing for almost a year while standing with his walking stick, we think this is silly!

4. Have you heard of the legend of the Seven Sleepers? How come Allah copied a known fable and put it in the Qur'an without acknowledging the monk who wrote the original story?