₦airaland Forum

HellVictorinho3:
Just as we know Jesus is an illusion...

Says you!
Your feelings doesn't change the truth!

Aparche:
To understand this scripture, you need to understand the 3 types of death, so you'll know the one that particular scripture is referring to.

Let's begin:

First, Death in scripture means separation from the original purpose.

There are 3 types of death in scripture:

1) Physical Death: Separation of your inner man (soul/spirit) from your outer man (body).
Every human being dies physically, whether you're a child of God or not.

If the wages or payment for sin is physical death, it means that anyone who dies physically has automatically paid for his sin, and would have to go to heaven. Irrespective of how he lived his life.

We know that this is not true, based on scripture.


Verdict: The wages of sin is NOT physical death.

2) Spiritual Death: This is the state of a living man in sin... it's the default state of every human being who has reached an age of accountability.

It means the separation of man from God & the life of God while that man is still alive physically .

If the wages of sin is spiritual death, it means that as long as you're living in sin and separated from God, you have paid for your sin...and so God would have no choice but to allow you into heaven after your life end on earth.

It then means that every sinner will go to heaven automatically at physical death while children/babies who didn't have time to sin before dying physically will go to hell.

Absurd right?

We know that this is not true... otherwise the death of Jesus Christ is in vain.

Verdict: The wages of sin is NOT spiritual death.

3) Eternal Death: this is the separation of man from God and the life of God for eternity after physical death.

It simply means that it will take you forever to receive your just payment for all your sins...

In order words, God who is just and doesn't like owing anybody will only become satisfied that He has paid you fully... AFTER eternity.

So you'll be separated from God, His life and His goodness forever...and the only location where we cannot find God or His goodness is Hell...this is why man has to spend his period of eternal separation here.

Verdict: The wages or payment for sin is Eternal death or eternal separation from God in hell.

Nice illustration!

Stay blessed!!

Offpoint1:
Permanent disconnection from God? Lol
To be in hell you have to be alive and God is the source of all life, so oga you CAN'T possibly be disconnected from God and also remember God's omnipresent.

Really!

The gift and calling of God is without REPENTANCE!
Rom 11:29:
"For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."
Your life is a gift from God that is yours to keep forever!

The Lake of Fire is equivalent to God's REFUSE BIN where souls useless to His purpose are dumped.

God is omnipresent in both time and space. Disconnection from God is akin to having no emotional value to God. It just simply means that the sinner in the lake of Fire becomes IRRELEVANT to anything of God.

When as humans we excrete our waste, do will place them in place of record, relevance and importance or we place them in the pit? The excrement is disconnected from us!

HellVictorinho3:
I can see what is certain... I can.

Seeing is not knowing!
We sometimes see illusions as real. Let not sight deceive you!

A mirage cannot be real water!

udatso:
But sir, how do we reconcile this with Ezekiel 18:20?

In context your quotation is correct as in I will not inherit my father's sin of adultery, stealing, hate, murder etc
BUT
I am not free from the CONSEQUENCES of my father's sin.

We all inherited DEATH as a consequence of the sin of Adam and Eve.

Rom 5:12:
"Why, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed on all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom 5:17:
"For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. )"

We by nature grow up to be sinners because we inherited the DISEASE of SIN from Adam and Eve.

sofiscatedmoron:
The bible said death and not condemnation in hellfire ,stop mid quoting the bible

Rev 20:14:
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Rev 21:8:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

HellVictorinho3:
Are you trying to rap?

Why should I?

Anyone who seek for the truth will find it

HellVictorinho3:
Stuff like this never mean anything to me .

It doesn't matter what anybody thinks. The truth is static!

HellVictorinho3:
Repeating something doesn't make it necessary

The truth is constant!

HellVictorinho3:
Only Jesus from your lips..... you don't have anything else to say.........rest.

Only Jesus from your heart of truth.
It's not about anyone else

HellVictorinho3:
It's not a matter of atheism vs theism
.....the issue is I am in a terrible mood.

Only Christ Jesus give the kind of peace that passes all understanding. That is peace that is independent of how rich or poor we are, not how healthy or sick we are or how loved or hated we are etc

HellVictorinho3:
You know this is what I hate.


Vain repetition.

I still wish you the best of 2022 whether you agree with me or not

HellVictorinho3:
I hereby mention the following people for no reason....

.....


There's no purpose behind this...
Ra Ra Ra Ra......till dawn....
Damn it!
Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla forever and ever and ever and ever...
twists and turns........ more than madness.........
On the loose.....on the streets.......

Fireworks even in my head......burn burn burn
No reason why......
Boooooooooommmmmmm!!!¡!!!!!!
Don't try to sound like this or that,.......,
Someone on another level.....

Over what .....

Never changing.......... for ,#$$_&(74$$_$#)_44&&-+
Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's good to remember those we have the opportunity to speak to whether we agree or not and to wish them a prosperous lives especially as we enter a new year.

Happy New Year to You dear!
I pray you meet the Saviour this year. Shalom

HellVictorinho3:
I hereby mention the following people for no reason....



HellVictorinho3


Crystyano


budaatum


triplechoice


KingOroro1


LordReed


Ayo081


MaxInDHouse


Sabr1na



FernandezPablo


Fati001


Jeon



TeddyJammy


Datboredberry


DeepSight


Wirinet


Prot0n


CAPSLOCKED


A001



OtemAtum


Dtruthspeaker


TenQ



Martinez39s


1Sharon



Magnoliaa


hupernikao


Amaratasha

.....


There's no purpose behind this...



Ra Ra Ra Ra......till dawn....


Damn it!


Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla forever and ever and ever and ever...



twists and turns........ more than madness.........




On the loose.....on the streets.......



Fireworks even in my head......burn burn burn





No reason why......






Boooooooooommmmmmm!!!¡!!!!!!



Don't try to sound like this or that,.......,


Someone on another level.....



Over what .....







Never changing.......... for ,#$$_&(74$$_$#)_44&&-+





Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's good to remember those we have the opportunity to speak to whether we agree or not and to wish them a prosperous lives especially as we enter a new year.

Happy New Year to You dear!
I pray you meet the Saviour this year. Shalom

Alao046:
A how does that still leads to the prove of the existence of your heavenly invisible sky daddy.
?
The fact that u don't know something, does not mean that someone else does not know it, or will not know it, even if it is a billions years to come. The thing is that i don't know, and i am honest enough to say that i don't know, but you religious folks don't also know too. But instead of you guys to also say you don't know, you will start bringing up one cartoon story of how one something somewhere said let there a light and how some people somewhere eat one apple and it is affecting me now.
You cannot know the answer the every question in life, the one you know you say u know, and what you don't know is what you don't know.

Common sense tell us that we can't know everything.
Common sense tell us that every knowledge is useful.
Common sense tell us that there are situations when we take reasonable action based on probabilities
Common sense tell us that we sometimes base serious decisions on logic even though evidence is scarce.

A brute mule will decide a position while pretending that there is not an iota of bases to take a reasonable action.

dyingheart:
we dated for five months. i showed him so much love and care. all he did was complain it wasn't enough, he wanted to date someone else. we're not talking anymore. i miss him like mad. i can't sleep, i can't eat, i can't do anything. it's like my heart has been broken into a thousand pieces. i can't breathe anymore. someone talk to me


****abeg, the man in question is not a Nairalander. cheating was from his part. i was very faithful to him.

Please move on and avoid future SORROWS and TEARS.

Is he the only good and working man around?

Alao046:
If i can't, how does that prove the existence of a vacuum god.
Even if i don't know how i came to exist, it still will never prove the existence of any supreme nonsense diety.

If you can't explain anything but you could make important decisions based on not knowing, what does it make you?
What do we call people who act without thinking?

LordReed:
Continuing with our analogy, the captain has already assumed the possibility of an attack which is why he sent the scouts in the first place. Now that he still hasn't gotten concrete information is he supposed to just believe an attack is eminent or send another sent of scouts?

Relating this to NDEs would be the equivalent of saying where is the corroborating evidence that an afterlife exists even if we say there is a possibility of an afterlife. There are widely divergent NDEs which do not give credence to any objective afterlife experience. Do we simply say we believe in afterlife or do we say we need more information. In my case I have chosen the latter, I need more information. The information at my disposal does not lead me to conclude that an afterlife exists just like the captain cannot conclude that an attack is eminent.

The question we should ask about NDEs is where the stories are coming from.
1. Are they pure figments of imagination
2. Lies
3. Why do some NDE cases seem to have an out of body experience where they can see things in the hospital they shouldn't see

LordReed:
A more sensible captain will look for more information since he has widely divergent reports.

In any case give your prepare a defense response, what would be the equivalent with regards to NDEs?

I think the premise was set right?

TenQ:
Let's assume your divergent scenarios are the only report available. The most STUPID assumption the captain can believe is that there is NOBODY!

If you want to put the motion that one can still get more information, what would be the position of a sensible Captain?

He would prepare for a defence while seeking for more evidence: Isn't it?

As per your question with respect to the equivalence with respect to NDE, a truthseeker will assume the possibility of the afterlife while still seeking for more evidence.

It is irrational to assume otherwise!

LordReed:
So a captain sends out 3 scouts in a particular direction and distance. They all reach the same spot and come back. 1st one says there are enemy combatants advancing on our position. 2nd says I didn't see anybody. 3rd says I only saw farmers working. Which of the 3 is the captain supposed to believe?

Let's assume your divergent scenarios are the only report available. The most STUPID assumption the captain can believe is that there is NOBODY!

The first and second scout show that people exist in the location. The only problem is that one is not sure whether they are civilians or advancing combatants.

It could even be that the two are correct where enemy soldiers are perfectly executing a deceptive manoever. (The combatants could be dressed as farmers).

A sensible Captain will prepared a DEFENSIVE position with his troops based on these information as he loses precious lives of his men if the enemy end up attacking. If at the end, the enemy refused to attack, he has still lost NOTHING in preparing for a defence!

LordReed:
Spies come back with evidence, they don't come back with word of mouth.

Evidence needs to be corroborative, you can't call contradictory evidence to your narrative evidence.

They don't have to come back with anything. A report is sufficient when pictures, hard paper, documents ...are not available.

Many times, they don't even have an exact number of tanks, artillery, infantrymen located in a position but their judgement of estimates are still regarded as credible enough for the captain's to work upon.

LordReed:
What part of "no need to explain away the man's experience" is hard for you to understand? You have a poor habit of strawmanning my statements. It makes for very poor conversations if I have to first address your strawmans before clarifying my point. I would appreciate it if in our further conversations you make an effort to stop strawmanning me.

Yes there is no evidence there isn't an afterlife just as there is no evidence there is therefore I lack belief in an afterlife.

Don't you think that you have narrowed down the definition of EVIDENCE to strictly mean exactly reproducible and repeatable.?

Soldiers send spies to check out a position. The report of the spies form the basis of the army's move because the TESTIMONY of the spies are treated as CREDIBLE. Don't you think your definition of Evidence will disregard the testimony of the spies?

I have never been to Russia and Ukraine, but I treat news coming from there as noteworthy. I don't disregard them because I can't perform a physical experiment on them.

In a case were two opposing views lack your kind of evidence, the one who can give useful information should be treated more seriously. Do you disagree?

LordReed:
There is no need to explain away the man's experience. He had a profound experience is all that can be said with any kind of certainty. It is however simply not evidence for an afterlife, mostly because it is not consistent with any other experience nor can it be independently verified in any way.

Since the man actually died by verifiable medical evidence AND the dead should be totally unconscious, the man's experience is not real.
In other words, the man had just fabricated a story.

Please note that even your position of insisting that there is no afterlife is WITHOUT ANY IOTA of verifiable EVIDENCE.

Why should we believe your position and not his?

Crystyano:
Why didn't you answer me?

Because you act like one is is dependent on...

I'll like to keep a distance!

Alao046:
I left religion as a whole, and not just Islam. Because as you can see, god is vacuum, void, non existing. So everything there are just lies and nonsense.
But still its far better a strong religion than christainity. Christainity is empty, more lies and controversy surrounds it than Islam, Islam came after christainity so it is more matured and stronger than christainity

That's were you get it completely wrong.
Christianity is NOT a religion. It is a RELATIONSHIP that has religious components.

Islam however is a RELIGION!

That is why you can't use religion to judge Christians, you can however use their relationship with God as a yardstick to evaluate them.

There is a world of a difference!


On your choice of Atheism, good for you. And what is/will be your gain?

If you exist, don't you know that others that you know not of also exists.
Can you explain the source of LIFE and CONSCIOUSNESS from inorganic materials?

Crystyano:
Why didn't you answer me?

What was the question?

Alao046:
1. Evidence all around what? Do you know how many christains i know who has now became muslims? I take Benin city for example in Nigeria, every Friday in the central mosque they do announce new muslim converts and they all come from christainity. From my findings, those who leave Islam for christainity actually don't find anything convincing about christainity, they just find islam difficult to practice. Christainity is just too easy to practice, as i told u all people do there is just play and dance and go to church on sunday, nothing to do there. Do you know how difficult practicing islam is?
Others i know left islam for christainity bcus they met one or two friends who promised them that if you follow me to my church, your so so and so problems will be solved. Muslims doesn't promise anything solving of problems, they will only tell you to pray to God and just have faith.

It is far more easy to be a child than to be a slave!
Don't you think so?

Alao046:
2. You still saying i leave in a secular country. So it's free for muslims to convert to Atheism here bcus no Apostasy. But still check stats of atheists in this country, i swear that for every 10 you meet, 8 where christains b4. Rarely will you see a muslim among them.

Freedom!
You don't get the point.
Being a Christian is not by force, neither is it by compulsion.

Alao046:
3. You almost recited the shahada does not make u know anything about islam, islam is very very deep beyond just ordinary shahada. From the little we have discussed so far, you know almost nothing about Islam.
Take for example Apostasy as u have been mentioning, Apostasy in islam cannot be carried out on someone who has already converted to another religion. If you have already left islam, there is no need for Apostasy, bcus u are no more a muslim, so will they go around killing every christain they see or jews they see ?
Apostasy is to be carried out when the muslim is already having doubt, double fellings about Islam or the person wants to leave the religion. Then Apostasy will be carried out so that the person still die as a muslim and he/she might still have the chance of making paradise.
Now you know what Apostasy means, just like other who don't know about Islam out there, u also thought it is leave islam and die, which is not correct.

The reason why I told you about my almost saying the shahada was because NO EVIL would have befallen be if I became a Moslem.

WHY did you leave your Glorious ISLAM for Atheism?

Alao046:
1. People who fall into atheism from christainity do not fall into Islam because of the same reason why people who fall into atheism from islam also do not fall into christainity.

Most of those who leave Islam become Christians. Evidence abound all over

Alao046:
2. Apostasy Apostacsy Apostacy!!
Why have i not been beheaded, or why has nobody threatened me yet with Apostasy.
I notice how you limit your replies to only islam and try as much as possible to avoid Judaism and Hinduism which i also made mention of.

Because you live in a secular and not Islamic country. Try that in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan!

Alao046:
3. Every religion as well is a chicken foot, but not withstanding christainity is and will still be the weakest. Check the stats in the US, with the rate of people abandoning christainity, i doubt it will still be significant in a 1000yrs to come. Check ratio of atheism in the Uk, which religion has the highest convertion ratio, or are Muslims also threatened with Apostasy in the UK? Why don't islam have high rate of convert to Atheism in the UK? The same with jews and Hindus, you will rarely see them becoming Atheist.

Only the original need be fought tooth and nail. What is the benefit of counterfeiting a weak currency

Alao046:
4. Taking about brainwashing, the average Muslim knows very much about christainity, the Bible is also an Islamic holy book u know. So Muslims read the bible very well, and know very much about christainity.
It is christains who have generally been brainwashed about Islam from the Onset, the only thing the know about islam is something they heard from someone who heard from someone who also heard from someone.
I don't know you personally, but i am very sure that you cannot recite one Quranic chapter or even the least verse yourself, or have you ever in your life brought out a English quran to read, or even an Hadith, the answer is capital NO.
So 99.9% of Christians knows nothing, when i mean nothing, i mean to say absolutely nothing about Islam, unless what they have heard from their fellow christains who also know nothing about the Quran or Haith.

Really! !
I told you I nearly recited the sahada in my 200 levels. I had a copy of the "Glorious Qur'an" then. It was my study of the Qur'an and Hadiths that led me back to Christ. Moslems hide under Arabic for their self deceptions. Christians don't waste time discussing Islam in their churches.

Atheism is actually a belief based on near insanity. Atheism is a belief that the universe created itself. Only atheists do not see the scientific illogicality of their position and DAILY, they whip up theories to support their position.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the WAY the TRUTH and LIFE, no one comes to the true God if such a person have nothing to do with Jesus. John 14:6
So let's consider those three symbolic terms then we can both meditate thoroughly to see if there is any other group practicing what Jesus taught apart from Jehovah's Witnesses.

The WAY: Jesus is the one and only person who know how we can worship his father acceptably {Matthew 11:27} therefore there's no ideology or opinion anyone raise so far Jesus didn't say it such idea will not yield any positive results in the gathering of those putting it into practice. John 15:5

The TRUTH: There are many deeds of God's servants we read in the Old Testament but when Jesus say it's wrong then we must drop whatever those people prior to his time practiced. We must remember that God never introduced any of them to us as His son to whom we must listen! Matthew 17:5

The LIFE: Everlasting life wasn't promised to anyone through anybody except the name of Jesus Christ {John 3:16} so whoever wants to have everlasting life must exert himself vigorously to stick to Jesus' teachings!

Now let's see if there is any other group doing these!

The only thing Jesus made a priority in his life after his baptism is the PREACHING and TEACHING work. Everyone back then knew Jesus as the guy who always go from house to house and door to door preaching and teaching people anywhere he could find them.
Now ask yourself which religion do you know that throughout the world people know their group as preachers from house to house and door to door? Matthew 5:13-16
Well i'm above 50 years of age today and the only group i know doing this incessantly are Jehovah's Witnesses!

When talking about the pursuit of riches many people can go for any career like music, sports, modeling and film industry where they will become celebrities in the society.
The problem here is their faces will be known everywhere so with the prominence they can't serve under Jesus whose followers must go out knocking on people's doors (uninvited) to preach and teach {Luke 18:18-23} so Jehovah's Witnesses don't encourage their youths to go into such careers because the prestige and fame will hinder them from accomplishing their ministry as disciples of Christ!

When it comes to LIFE Jesus cherishes the life of humans so much that he's ready to destroy thousands of animals just to save one human soul {Luke 8:26-34 compare to Luke 12:7} now ask yourself which of all the religions claiming Christians are ready to forgo anything instead of carrying weapons to kill their fellowman just to procure material possessions?
Well i know just one group whose will is to help even those seeking their lives gain the accurate knowledge of God instead of supporting racial disputes or military services to kill {Matthew 5:43-48} they are Jehovah's Witnesses!

So when people say they're not materialistic it's easy to say and preach to woo gullible followers but it's by WORKS that everyone can SEE not just a mouthing issue! Matthew 7:21-23

I remember a time when a prophet was too sure he was the only one who hasn't bowed down to Baal!
The answer of God shocked him

1Kin 19:18:
"Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth which has not kissed him."

Alao046:
Never said there are no Muslim Atheist, but the ratio compared to that of christainity is very very large. I am a member of some Atheist groups on Facebook, 95% of people there were christain converts, u only see very few muslim converts, a Hindu i have not seen before. All these come from the fact that Christianity is the weakest religion on Earth. Christianity has so many reasons for its believers to tackle it teachings and stories. Lets no talk about the Bible been the most controversial book on earth. Its easy to detect the lies in christainity than in Islam or Judaism, reading the Bible alone makes one have thousands of questions about the christain God.

You will note that it had been difficult for you to answer any of my questions because it is glaring that any religion without the threath of a Fatwa being pronounced on them for apostasy will exhibit FREEDOM of choice, Faith or Religion.

Secondly, why is it that people who fall into Atheistsm from Christianity don't fall into Islam?

Islam is a much bigger chicken foot!

Alao046:
First of which is why will God create a holy book that has more than a hundred contradictions.
There are also contradictions in the Qur'an, but its nothing compared to that of the Bible.
90% of christains who became Atheist, left christainity because of the lies and inauthenticity of the Bible according to survey.

Unfortunately, the average Moslem is brainwashed against Christianity even from the earliest age with lies.
1. The bible is written by men, in the language of men about the chronicles of men in relation to how God deals with them. What makes it special is that it is INSPIRED: meaning that God instructs men and prophets to put down the chronicles.
2. The Qur'an is the VERBATIM dictation of Allah. Unfortunately, it is an over-summarised bible and Jewish midrash.

Please compare Suraj Yusuf with the story of Joseph in the bible and answer the question of which version is believable! Are you aware that Mohammed split the moon? Are you aware that Allah said that the sun sets within the murky dark waters?

Moslems are so ignorance of the bible that they believe that Jesus was a Moslem!

Errors in the bible may be excusable but not errors from the Qur'an.


I ask you again,
You were a former Moslem, if Islam isn't a chicken foot religion, why did you leave it for Atheism?

MaxInDHouse:
The rich man has lost it but his brothers who are also putting riches as first thing needed to be warned. God will not perform a single sign to do that. Jehovah's Witnesses are ready do whatever our God say as long as we are convinced that it's benefitial, we aren't expecting any sign before we believe in our God.
False religionists are looking for riches and material possessions before they can be convinced that they're blessed.
Well the riches we are talking here is not real but what they made the priority in their lives so even when their members don't have it like their religious leaders riches is what makes them feel accomplished not the doing of God's will!

Do you think all non JW are about money and wealth?
Do you think all non JW are about miracles before faith and duty in righteousness?

The JW organisation is just one of the hundreds of sects within the Christian denomination.
Are other "Unitarians" other than JW also wrong?

MaxInDHouse:
They are showing it but their followers are blind!
How do you think they're doing buying houses in different places in their personal names, private jets and all the things the world can offer yet their followers are thinking heaven is the goal!

They are showing it through their actions but their followers are blind because they also love deceit! 2Timothy 3:13

The rich man was sincere about his brothers hearing the TRUE message not their warped kind. He wouldn't even mind if Lazarus went down to preach. This is at variance with those flouting their wealth. It would even make a slight sense if they give out ALL their wealth. Flouting of wealth has nothing to do with the kingdom of God