₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Nice goal shift. The argument is not whether your relation's kidnapping or the op headline is true. What's in contention is your general sweep from what you yourself described as a "few tiny instances", to a general condemnation of whole ethnic group!

Its similar to claiming all Nigerians are thieves because some or even a lot of Nigerians might be thieves. We all know all Nigerians are not thieves, just as all Fulanis do not herd cattle or are bandits, nor are they solely responsible for the atrocities you insist on believing they have committed.

Read up on Genocide in Rwanda. It might show you where such unreasoning leads.

Even though I have clarified a million times that it is NOT about demonizing the Fulani people but everytime, that's what you hear me say.

The question is, Who are these people called bandits?
What every evidence tell us is that
1. They are Fulanis
2. They are herdsmen (with or without cattles)

They are a special class of the criminals disturbing us in this nation.
But like I said:
To these points earlier said, no argument, fact, truth or evidence will suffice as human minds are stronger than steel.

budaatum:
Its the truth for you, TenQ, and you believe it. I have not found it to be true, and I do not believe things just because someone wrote it. You are however very welcome to your opinion about buda. I'm sure you believe its the truth too even though you obviously made it up in your own head.

I hear you. The information is made up in my head!?
Including the headline of the OP?
Including my relations kidnapping?


Like I said:
To these points above, no argument, fact, truth or evidence will suffice as human minds are stronger than steel.

When you don't understand something, it is good to ask relevant question

JAMO84:
"You have heard me say to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you; if you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said I am going to the father, for my father is GREATER THAN I.
John 14:28



Why do you elevate Jesus to God level, when Jesus himself said that God is greater than him?

The answer you seek if truely you want an answer is in the scriptures and it's not about what Christians think!.

John 10:30:
"I and my Father are one."

John 14:8-9:
"Philip said to him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffises us. Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?"

The purpose of Christ is not to prove that He is God else His purpose of sacrifice for man will be defeated.

Phil 2:5-6:
"You should think about things the way Christ Jesus did. He existed in the form of God, but did not consider equal with God something to hold onto."

Even Mohammad didn't know what trinity is: do you think he does?

NoSentiment:
Imagine the amount of hate that would have been spewed by some bigots on this platform if it were Dangote or Abdussamad that went on the streets preaching the message of islam. Those Muslims would have been called "terrorist", "extremist", "fundamenralists", "bigots etc by supposed followers of the "religion of love". Nigerian xtians are the most selfish and intolerant lot I have ever come across.

Is it part of your Deen to evangelize for Islam by preaching?

Let your wisdom guide you sir.

Have you seen a Moslem preaching in the bus or market place or in public before when he is not an imam?

budaatum:
I do not have sufficient information to determine their validity or not. Such things have been presented in the past and found to be false or did not happen where they claim.

What I do know is it would be very difficult for cattle herders to be kidnapping anyone in the South of Nigeria. If they were cattle herders they would have cattle, which no one has shown any bandit or kidnapper has.

Nigeria does have criminals, and even from across our porous borders. If I were staying in say Congo, Nigeria would be the place to go and rob people. And if you have ever seen the swarm of uneducated almanjeris in parts of the North you wouldn't claim Fulani Cattle herders are the culprits. Unless you see their cattle of course, which the document you posted missed out.

It certainly means that you are
1. Overly biased against the truth and NOTHING will convince you unless such event befall you DIRECTLY
2. The truth doesn't matter as your mind is made up.

It won't matter for me to ask you to check the mode of dressing. It won't matter if I ask you to check the style of building and vegetation around. It wouldn't matter if names were presented.

To these points above, no argument, fact, truth or evidence will suffice as human minds are stronger than steel.

budaatum:
Not only overzealous, but devious too. And I am delighted you noticed. If you've been here long you'd have seen posts from Congo presented as Nigeria, and posts of atrocities that had nothing to do with Fulanis blamed on Fulanis and so on. Most people quickly believe but more evidence often reveals the lies.

Please know that buda has an error in design that makes buda not believe. If buda believed, so called Fulani Monday would not be successfully managing buda's farm in the Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun.

You've not told me your impressions about the embedded videos, picture and information about the attrocities committed in the south-west as detailed by the document.

Do you think they are fabrications?
If they are fabrications, let's know your REASONS!

Akaegwu:
Tinubu is the best man for the job. He succeeded in removing criminal gangs from the street to motor parks and garages in South western Nigeria. He can do same with bandits, terrorists and kidnappers across the country.
Vote for him, he will stop medical tourism because all the government hospitals in Lagos is world class and he's a very young healthy man in his early 50's.
He will not blip Nigerian resources because the one stolen from Lagos is enough for him.
He will be better than buhari. He is Buhari's pro max,ie same product with little improvement in the erea of gathering political criminals across the country country as against only northern political criminals.
He will turn Nigeria to world powers. Same has been achieved in Lagos where agberos are the real powerful tools ready to conquer the world. I stand with Tinubu.

How much were you paid to say this?

budaatum:
I read part of it despite being put off by the beginning. My opinion of such is expressed in this thread. Hopefully, you know how public sentiment led to genocide in Rwanda

Fact is, quite a lot of what Fulani are being blamed for is done by our very own people, as we found with the gunmen in the East. Fulani may be kidnapping in Kaduna, but dem never yet born the Fulani to come kidnap anyone in the South. Local kidnappers wouldn't put up with the competition for starts, and we know where their cattle is if they dare.

You may be put off by the beginning of the document but please don't throw out the baby with the dirty water. Let's assume that the document was written by an overzealous scribe. It is the evidence presented of the attrocities that I want you to look at. You will arrive at the conclusion of
1. The evidences are doctored and thus mere fabrications
2. The evidences are true but excessively exaggerated
3. The evidences are true but the events did not take place in the SW of Nigeria
4. The evidences look like as presented.

The purpose of me sharing the document is certainly NOT about the IDEOLOGY of the document writers but of the EVIDENCES provided.

Waiting for your comments!

budaatum:
Sorry for your plight, TenQ, but as I said, a "tiny fraction" is no reason to condemn them all.

If I were to become a kidnapper I will learn some Fulfude so that when I kidnap someone in Osun State, they'll be looking for cattle in the North instead of Yoruba me in the South.

Please have a look at this document. It was part of what was submitted by a coalition of Yoruba organisations at tthe international criminal court.. It contains some graphic videos detailing attrocities committed by those you defend so much. They say
"Eni t'o mo lo kan!"
Once bitten twice shy!



https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kjzpx62w970ob1/21.7.13%20-%20confirmation%20-%20submission%20-%20international%20criminal%20court%20-%20yoruba%20strategy%20alliance.pdf?dl=0

Let me have your views about the document.

budaatum:
Where was your relative kidnapped, TenQ?

And what makes you claim they were Fulani bandits?

Since its experience close to you I'd value your responses more than a pdf, but see advice above if you insist.

She was in Kaduna working for a farm. She was kidnapped on the road while coming from the market to sell her companies products. She and her workmate were abducted and taken far into the bush. She said they walked none-stop for about 8hours.

She told us that her abductors were Fulani. They spoke Hausa language to them (they were up to 16 in number when she got there) but spoke Fulfude to themselves.

The police asked us to cooperate with them for the Ransome payment. Intact they collected money TWICE! After that first negotiation and payment, the upped their demand. It was terrible. They beat them everyday to force them to cry while they spoke with us. Her hair was scraped to show us they meant business. She was in their camp for about 10 full days.

It's a terrible experience for anyone to face my dear!

I will send you a Dropbox link as soon as ai can upload the documents.

budaatum:
I guess this is why some call we Nigerians yahoo since some "tiny fraction" of yahoos are Nigerian. Its also why some say we Nigerians are thieves even though most of the Nigerians we know like our mama and papa might never have stolen anything and brought us up to not steal. I, unfortunately can't reason the way of condemning the majority because of a "tiny fraction", especially based on "stories we hear". I know what happens when the Chinese whisper.

Below is the recent "stories we hear" about Fulani's on my own farm. Make sure you read the follow up too.

I've read your post. How can I send you the PDF document. It is highly informative.

Like I told you last year, these Fulani bandits kidnapped a relation of mine. They held her until a randsom in millions were paid. Our experiences are different.

But if you can read up on the document, I will appreciate.

budaatum:
I know this TenQ. I have had them on my farm in Osun State with their cattle, as I mentioned here. They did not have ak47s and perhaps that's why I was not afraid of them despite being all by myself, and perhaps I am special or something and known in their trade. The herders of cattle in my own part of Osun State are herding cattle for the big people in my home town. You buy a cattle and they care for it and you share its calfs between you, so if anyone's cattle eats my plantings I know who to go get my restitution from. Besides, who would dare encroach on the farm of the Child of the Basorun not to talk of kill her?

TenQ, please, where is your village (if you have one and are not just as city person)? Even in your local neighbourhood where you live, can Fulani come there and terrorise you without your area people fighting back? Dem never born the Fulani or any outsider who would come terrorise my own home town. The local terrorisers will not put up with the competition and our strong community cohesion must be a repellant, but if they dare, we will instigate a new local festival with a God that needs the sacrifice of cattles!

No one has said that ALL Fulani herdsmen are the so called bandits. It only takes a tiny fraction of them hiding unfortunately behind the ordinary herdsmen. Stories we hear is that these were imported into Nigeria for political purposes with no cattle of their own. After the elections, they resorted into the sophisticated kind of criminality we now know as kidnapping and murders. This is not to say that even some of the ordinary herdsmen have not being into criminal activities like robberies and destruction of people's farms.

There is a pdf document I'll like you to read. It is about 2.5MB and can't be attached on NL. It contains some evidence gathered from the western part of Nigeria alone.

I can send it by email if you don't mind

budaatum:
Are they in the deep forest in Enugu and Ibadan too or is it the locals terrorising and kidnapping in those places?

They are in every state of the federation herding their cattles. They migrate down to the south especially during the dry seasons to find pasture for their cattle.

Conflicts with farmers occur when they encroach into the farms!

Workch:
how does entropy show that matter is not eternal?
You better study carefully before answering this question because you have started talking like illiterate again.

Usable energy will be zero, so that makes energy not eternal. Do you have a working brain?
Do you understand how entropy works in a closed system?

This is a new year bro!
Cramming knowledge and understanding knowledge are two different things.

What will happen to matter at maximum entropy?
Will matter still exist at maximum entropy?

As long as matter still exist, its entropy is yet to be maximum!

Do you even know what usable energy is?
Is "zero -usable" energy the same as zero energy?
Have you not broken the first law of thermodynamics if energy can be destroyed to zero?

Steep:
Well it would only mean that usable energy is not eternal, and since non usable energy is useless in terms of doing work, does it not mean that there must necessarily be a cause to the existence of the universe?
Again, what do you say about Noether's theory, that suggest that the Law of conservation of energy is only a product of symmetry?

I dont know about Noether's theory however, I certainly believe that
1. Matter and the current laws of Physics came into existence after the big bang
2. Since the big bang, entropy has been increasing
3. This increasing entropy show that the universe has an end...and if the universe has an end, it cannot be eternal. It takes a constant universe for it to have been eternal
4. The laws of physics break down before the big band and after entropy is maximum.

I dont think the laws of physics could have arisen out of nothing. There must be a prime mover who is infinitely powerful, timeless, immaterial and eternal who set the universe in motion. Christians will call such a Prime mover God.

Steep:
According to the law of conservation of energy
Energy and matter cannot be destroy but transformed from one form to another, right?

That's not the definition of the law of Conservation of mass.

First of all, that is only for ideal closed systems, so it's not something you can apply to the real world very well anyway.
Secondly, it is talking about mass, not matter. Energy has/is mass.
Third, in general relativity, mass and energy conservation in expanding volumes is not necessarily conserved.

Entropy show that Matter is NOT eternal
Energy of course should be eternal only that USABLE energy will be zero

DropsMic:
To answer the question above i will refer you to this short quote by Shakespeare "Love is blind"

Their behavior doesn't deserve a strong disdain. Disdain leads to hate, hate leads to Violence and violence is a no no for me.
Those who are unfortunate to be born that way deserve to be protected and cared for if not by anyone, they deserve it from their family because they are human beings too..

And i will say this again. Until it hits close to home, you will never understand.

You make the same general mistake.
The disdain, unapproval, rejection of a behaviour is NOT the same thing as the disdain, unapproved or rejection of a PERSON.

Even God LOVES us without loving our sinful nature.

BTW, Love is NOT blind: the eyes of love is open very wide.
Why!?
Love is NOT an emotion, Love is a CHOICE.
The emotion of love occurs only when LOVE succeeds!

I hope you can decode this!

Let me ask you this question:
A baby excretes on her BODY: Is Love helping the baby to retain the excrement of her body or is love helping the baby to get rid of her mess?

DropsMic:
This was what i was trying to explain in my initial post.. We tend to treat them lgbtqs with disgust and disdain until it hits close to home. . Thats when we realize that they too are human beings who deserve our love, care and protection.

Whether or not you try to make the said person "whole again" is out of the question.

But
Love is certainly NOT justifying the wrong behaviour
Love is certainly NOT accepting the wrong behaviour
Love is certainly NOT supporting the wrong behaviour

Love acknowledges that there is a PROBLEM and the problems need a SOLUTION!

The LBGT's wrong behaviour certainly demands a strong DISGUST
The LBGT's wrong behaviour certainly demands a strong DISDAIN
The LBGT's wrong behaviour certainly does not deserve PROTECTION
The LBGT's wrong behaviour certainly does not deserve any CARE

Do you thing the last four statements are HATE words?

Feggie3:
You have no basics of classifying and grouping these together because no semblance. Ogbeni getat!! You are just an empty vessel with a loosened tongue!!

I wish in your grand wisdom you can educate me if you think you have a better argument OR are you just making a mindless rhetoric?

DropsMic:
Sure it wouldn't change your stance that it's a mental problem, but you'd love the same person regardless.

Of course, I'm compelled to love irrespective of whether such a relation is mentally sick or not.

However,
Love desires that the sick become whole and well again.
Love will do everything within his power that the sick become whole and well again.
Love will never accept that the sick remain perpetually sick
Love will never accept a narrative by ANYONE who tries to encourage the sick to remain in his sick state (in fact, love will be be harsh on such people)

Do you think LOVE should allow a mentally sick child son to dance naked in public (even if that is exactly what he wants to do to make himself happy)?

DropsMic:
Wait until it hits close to home

I pray it doesn't.
But if it does, it wouldn't change my stance that it is a mental problem like kleptomania, pedophilia, necrophilia, etc.
Note that except for kleptomania, they are all sexual preferences: isn't it?

booblacain:
(I had to bring this here first to get clarity from others before we go take it up with them at the Local Government Office).

A friend of mine just got his NIN slip from his local government office. To my surprise, the slip he was given looks like something that was photocopied, but he was told that it was printed directly from the computer. There are obvious discoloration marks on it that can only come from photocopy machines and not from printers.

My own sister has done her NIN and her own slip obviously looks like the original copy, the NIN logo on the back is in color and there are no photocopy discoloration marks on the paper.

off course, things can be printed in white and black, but not with photocopy marks.

The question that worries me is, if he was given the photocopy, where and who has the original. Obviously, the original copy exists because you can only make a photocopy from an original hard copy.

My suspicion is that the original copy was printed out and then photocopied, then only the photocopy was given to him, but why would they do this and lie to him that it was the printed copy. Why was the original copy not given to him and What do they plan to do with it?

Please people, Is this something my friend should worry about or am I being unnecessarily concerned about it?

The first two pictures  bellow shows my sister's NIN slip (original) and the other two shows the NIN slip that was given to my friend.

The original was printed with black and white printer.
QED!

DropsMic:
We humans (especially blacks) tend to hate them lgbtqs until it hits close to home.. Na them we go con realize say them too na human beings.

I don't think it's about hating them. It's about NOT celebrating INSANITY and MADNESS! What in the world will make me celebrate a very close relation with mental problem. I will certainly seek for their restoration and criticize ANYONE justifying the insanity!

NwaNimo1:
https://www.voanews.com/a/afghan-shops-remove-heads-of-mannequins-in-line-with-taliban-order/6379748.html

This is Islam. They will scream Islamophobia but when they have power, they will not respect other people's belief

illicit:
I laugh at religious people

We don't need religions

We need just common sense

No wonder the new common sense allows same sex marriage with surrogacy as an option.
Very soon, that same common sense will make humans to marry reptiles

HardMirror:
don't mind them. So what created everything jare

Whatever created everything must be conscious, immaterial, spaceless, timeless and infinitely powerful!

HardMirror:
Happy Sunday, please why is there so much debate on God's existence?
This is a debate that has lasted thousands of years... why is it that millions of people are still unable to see something as irrefutable as God?

Too easy!
Mental sickness make some people feel suddenly so wise that they claim that nothing created everything!

Offpoint1:
Lol" We are not all God children"
Last I remember no Bible page made reference to the Devil having the ability to create/give life.
Last I remember Genesis stated God created EVERYTHING...
Saying some aren't God's kid is same thing as saying they aren't God creation.

I'm not surprised you didn't read my last post. Isn't there a difference between God's Creation and God's Children?

Some people desire a soft fluffy Teddy Bear kind of God, unfortunately He isn't.

Rev 20:11:
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

Offpoint1:
Define what you understand by "Spirit"
And define what you understand by "Dead"

Spirit can't die, hence you don't see nowhere in the Bible were is stated the devil will be killed or is dead... No human has committed more atrocities than the devil and yet he's not "spiritual dead"

The problem is most you guys don't understand what you read

You first said spiritual death doesn't exist. I've shown you with scriptures if you cared to read.

Spirits don't ever CEASE to exist. They are CUT OFF (second Death).
You are the one misunderstanding the nature of death. If you had read to understand, you would have known.

Exactly why Satan and his hosts (who are also spirits) are thrown into the Lake of Fire: which is the second Death. The lake of fire is NOT a place of annihilation, it is a prison for those who are disconnected eternally from God.


A Spirit is a non material personality!

Dead: something disconnected from its source of power.
Eg. Dead engine
Dead person
Dead animal

The context of the source of power determines the nature of the kind of death!

HellVictorinho3:
Till you get tired of yourself

At the end, everyone gets to know the TRUTH: timely or not.

Offpoint1:
Then you know nothing about who God is...
And please don't use inanimate object to site samples... No matter how terrible your kids are, no matter how disconnected you are from them... There's a part of you that will constantly remind you they're your kids.
You're not some trash...

Because of people like you, the Lord Jesus never spoke without using parables to illustrate the kingdom of God and exposition of the Father.

You make a big misconception about God. We are NOT all God's children. Here are the sons/children of God
John 1:12-13:
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Can you see that we are NOT all children of God!?

Offpoint1:
About things you mentioned like "spiritual death"
There's no such thing as spiritual death, a spirit can't die...

There is not such thing as spiritual death!?
Eph 2:5:
"that even though we were spiritually dead and doomed by our sins, he gave us back our lives again when he raised Christ from the dead--only by his undeserved favor have we ever been saved--"

Col 2:13:
" You were dead in sins, and your sinful desires were not yet cut away. Then he gave you a share in the very life of Christ, for he forgave all your sins,"

Col 3:1:
" Since you became alive again, so to speak, when Christ arose from the dead, now set your sights on the rich treasures and joys of heaven where he sits beside God in the place of honor and power."

Is there still nothing like spiritual death as found in your bible?

Offpoint1:
You're communication with God may be cutoff, that's not spiritual death.

Being cut off is the true definition of death.
When the Soul/Spirit is cut off from the Body, we have Physical Death

When a person's Spirit is cut off from God from God. This is spiritual death and we were all born spiritually alienated from God.

When a Person's Body, Soul and Spirit is eternally cut off from God, this is called the second Death.

It is a delusion and self deception to assume that all men are children of God!

I hope you understand the scripture below?
Rom 8:5-9:
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

HellVictorinho3:
Truth my arss


Continue with your vomit

Anyone who refuses the truth embraces deception!