₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
My argument is instead saying that no death can happen without God sanctioning it. It is His Law that rules over everything. So no man can cause anything without or outside of God sanctioning it. For instance, when Stephen was stoned to death by the Jewish horde, it was God that allowed it and His Law that decided Stephen's end.

Again. God is the one to fear, not men because the buck starts and ends with Him and Him alone. This is what Jesus Christ taught His followers.

If you chose to believe otherwise, you are free to do just that.

DappaD:
I wanted to comment on Revelation 14:11 but seeing that you’ve shifted to Matthew 25:46, fine then.
Like I said, it’s obvious you’re reading these scriptures with a mind already tainted by the Trinity belief. And that’s the reason why you think punishment is synonymous to torment.

When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, he used fire and brimstone (Genesis 19:24) and it was also recorded that they underwent everlasting punishment by fire (Jude 7) so my question to you is, where are the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah now? Were they destroyed instantly then or are they still lingering somewhere after fire and brimstone rained on their cities ?

Dtruthspeaker:
That's what judgement day is for! If you look closely you would see that.Satan has not yet been punished for all his crimes upon the earth, same as Eve, Cain, Lamech and co.

That is what we see in "the first shall be the last and the last shall be the first" as shown in revelation.

We shall be judged first, then Satan shall be judged last.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus used that parable to tell how badly things will turn out for the first century self-righteous Jewish leaders, Abraham and Moses never lived the same time, meanwhile Abraham is part of the dead that will be resurrected, when Jesus said they are all living to Him (God) this simply means God keeps their names in His memory book for resurrection not that the dead are conscious somewhere! Revelations 20:15

If you're still interested in knowing the meaning of those symbolic terms i'm still very much around!

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ in His teachings explained severally that death is not in any way caused by men. None of the birds can drop dead without the Father first knowing of it. A man can kill another man but only because God permits it. And as far as Cessation of the victim is concerned, God is the one who also decides that too.

So, again, what Jesus Christ is telling you in Matthew 10 vs 28 - 30 is this... do not fear men but instead fear only God for it is He who rules over men, Death and eternity.

MaxInDHouse:
Satan is one of God's spirit sons, Adam and Eve connived with him to rebel against God so the three rebels will die but then God wants Adam's descendants to learn from Adam's evil deed that's why God didn't destroy Satan instantly. Moreover Satan asserted that humans will not worship God willingly unless God bribe them, he also said humans can rule over themselves successfully without God's intervention that's why God decided to give Satan the chance to prove all what he said!
But today nobody can deny the fact that all what Satan said is FALSE.

God is not interested in tormenting his children (including Satan) but since they don't want Him to guide them they will continue to hurt themselves and others so the best thing is to send them back to non-existence and that's exactly what God had in mind! Romans 6:23

Acehart:
Let's take a look at the most favorable Jehovah's witness' doctrine of the inexistence of the Lake of Fire (as you prefer it to be referred to to avert misinterpretation)- Jeremiah 7

Jehovah sets the tone or context for this chapter in the first three verses:

Hear the Lord's message, all you people in Judah. You come through this gate to worship the Lord.” ’ The great, powerful God of Israel says, "Change the things that you do. Do the right things''.

The introduction of this chapter reveals the profane worship Israel had descended into. Of the cluster of cultic sins Jehovah had against them, what seems to be the most detestable is the sacrifice (by fire) of their firstborn children; it brings to mind the Deuteronomistic prohibition laid out to the children of Israel.

Leviticus 18:3,21 says: "Do not follow their practices...And thou shalt not give any of thy seed to make them pass through the fire to Molech; neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am Jehovah"

Here is what Jeremiah 7:31 says, "They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."

The catch word for them and those who agree to that doctrine is this: nor did it enter my mind. What were the people doing in the Valley? Worship! Did it ever enter the mind of Jehovah to command that they offer their seed even His own seed in their sacrifice to Him? Never! Throughout all scripture, we know when God refers to His seed, He refers to His offspring (Though seed means several things including His word).

Then we hear God say to the wicked (who are not His seed): "then bodies will lie scattered on the ground. Birds and wild animals will come and eat, and no one will be around to scare them off"- Still in the same Jeremiah 7. How did these people die? By fire and much worse. Let's look at seven chapters later: "And they shall bear their punishment...“Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its people and their animals if I send wild beasts through that country and they leave it childless and it becomes desolate so that no one can pass through it because of the beasts; suppose I were to bring war against the land, and I sent enemy armies to destroy both people and animals. Suppose I were to pour out my fury by sending an epidemic into the land, and the disease killed people and animals alike. For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals!"

I see that God sends Brimstone against the wicked because of their sin. If Jehovah were to annihilate those people using warfare, those who propagate this "mindless" (regarding Jere. 7:31) should know that those who invaded Jerusalem employed Brimstone in their siege-warfare. (FYI: Brimstone meaning 'sulfur' was first recorded in English in the early 14th century. It probably comes from words meaning 'burning and fire')

If the Lake of fire is never something God had in mind, Jesus should be accused of sensationalism; didn't He say: "whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”

DappaD:
TenQ I believe you’re reading these scriptures with a mindset that has been tainted with the hellfire dogma.

So please permit to chip in my 2cents !
You’ve been quoting Revelation 14:11 and using it as a basis for a hellfire but there’s something you’re missing if we’re to be honest. Do you need my input on the matter ?

AntiChristian:
Where was Judaism and Christianity mentioned in your Bible as a religion? There was never any religion name Judaism by Moses or Chriatianity by Jesus. Keep up your delusion! If Islam is a forgery from Christianity & Judaism, then Christianity is a forgery from Judaism too!

AntiChristian:
Alhamdulillah, you are changing the discussion entirely!
Na you dey lie all in the name of holy Spirit. Quote from your Book as i have asked you several times but you won't. Na just to tell lies!

AntiChristian:
Yeah, we limit God as much as we believe God is able to do all things there are things far above His majesty to do.

You God can die! He can sleep, eat, weep, be tempted by Satan, be beaten by men, enter the womb, pass through the birth canal. You God can even regret and repent! You God can sure do so many things!

AntiChristian:
Paradise is about reward and reward. If you believe the sons of God came from heaven in Gen 6 to impregnate daughters of men on earth then you should know sex is needed in heaven! (We need to ask if your Jesus was among these giant birthing sons of God)
Allah says: And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.
Qur'an 3:85

AntiChristian:
Yeah we pass through it but you'll enter it if you die Christian!

AntiChristian:
This na your preaching point! Na your sermon make you na dey preach am! Jesus sef no shout Hallelujah! Na you sabi shout nonsense!

MaxInDHouse:
Your questions stems from the teachings of the churches of Christendom so if you truly want the answers it's you that needs to calm down.

MaxInDHouse:
The torment means something else because Jesus the same person revealing this sacred secrets have used this same symbolic term when he was with his disciples.
Remember the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? That parable need to be understood but most Bible readers just dismiss it and took it literally. Judgment hasn't come when Jesus was on earth neither has it come now the dead has not been resurrection so where did Jesus got that story?
Well he was giving the parable to show how tormented the Pharisees will be when he's gone and everyone began noticing that the God of Israel has approved Jesus' group.
So if you're taking the words literally then what about the sea out of which a beast having seven heads suffice? What about the harlot sitting on the beast? What about the angels pouring out the things in their vessels?

MaxInDHouse:
The dead knows nothing neither do they feel anything that's what God's word says about the dead {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} so what you're reading shouldn't be taken literally.

MaxInDHouse:
This simply means whoever remembers their acts will fear not to be like them

MaxInDHouse:
They are facing eternal punishment because they will not be resurrected. All of us are under the same punishment {Romans 3:23} but due to our faith in Christ Jesus we will be pardoned and return life during the resurrection {John 11:25} but as for these people their own punishment is forever, they will not be remembered! Revelations 20:15

MaxInDHouse:
Punishment is what God's word called death {Genesis 2:17; 3:19 compare to Romans 6:23} because it's not in God's good plan that humans should die {Ezekiel 33:11} it's Adam's rebellion that brought this punishment upon mankind! Romans 5:12
If you truly want to know what others believe i will advise you not to seek short answers because you can't give short answers and think you've helped someone who doesn't understand God's word, you'll either keep yours and leave them to keep theirs. True Christians are patient when it's time to help others grasp what is written in God's word! 1Peter 3:15

May you have PEACE!

Kobojunkie:
1. Where do you keep coming up with these assumptions from? I didn't say anything about death being progressive, nor did I mention such thing as a "progressive death". Instead, cessation(dust to dust) is what I suggested could be progressive and I used the physical decay of a dead body for an example to explain why I think so. .

DEATH, as a curse, is of God. Whatever humans do, God's Law still decides the outcome.

Dtruthspeaker:
O How much more, the wicked!

Dtruthspeaker:
They did not see what Job knew
Job 3:10 (b)
" What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, AND SHALL WE NOT RECEIVE EVIL?"

The Bible keeps saying The Right Hand of The Lord, and people have not pondered what is in The Left Hand!

Dtruthspeaker:
They did not see what Job knew
Job 3:10 (b)
" What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, AND SHALL WE NOT RECEIVE EVIL?"

The Bible keeps saying The Right Hand of The Lord, and people have not pondered what is in The Left Hand!

Sophiebabe85:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7uYj5iM_A4

Bbnaija Tacha party hard and competes in twerking with her guy friend in Paris

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CWMHJ2rNoz4/?utm_medium=share_sheet

Kobojunkie:
1. I never stated that that the mind/soul cannot exist without the body. That assumption is wholly yours. Rather, what I have stated even till now is that God condemned those who do not believe in Him unbelievers (mind, body and soul) - they cease to exist when they die, this in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. That cessation is as decreed by God and is by His power, not man's.

2. As decreed by God, the being (mind, body and soul) of those who do not believe in Him - unbelievers - ceases when they die - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. Now, we don't know at what point in time that process of cessation commences and is completed. What we know is know is a body takes time to decay back into its elements aka dust. We have no indication when it is the soul and mind of man begins or ends.

---

Kobojunkie:
3. When a man kills a fellow man, he kills the body, just as Jesus Christ said. What happens afterwards to the one who has been killed is wholly determined by God's Law.

■God is able to reverse the death of that body in case of a miracle
■ In the absence of a miracle, and if the victim happened to be a unbeliever , his body, mind and soul, subject to God's curse, would cease to exist
■ if the dead man had been a believer(wicked or righteous), his mind, body and soul would remain to be reconstituted in the resurrection when Jesus Christ returns
Here again, notice that the assumption that a man is able to kill the body, mind and soul is wholly yours.

Kobojunkie:
4. There is a huge difference, only you don't seem to care to see it.

5. Jesus Christ's urgings was to those who believe in Him. He called on them to fear God, the one whose Word determines the fate of a man, whether dead or alive - Matthew 10 vs 28 - 30. God is the judge as far as the end of a man - see (3) above.

Kobojunkie:
1. When a man kills a fellow man, all he does is kill the physical body of the man, a body which God, if He chooses, can raise back up.

When a man dies, God is the one who decides the fate of the man - mind, body and soul.

2. It may look like that to the physical man, but God is the one who ultimately decides the fate of men.

3. God has power over all men. The wicked and the righteous both exist in God's Kingdom and He, Jesus Christ, is Law in His Kingdom , is He not?
They are ruled over by Him even while they are here on earth. Only He has chosen to delay judgment until after they are done in this world.... harvest time.

Kobojunkie:
1. I don't understand your question? For this, can we define a human as consisting of a
■ mind(thoughts and memories),
■ body(physical vessel on earth),
■ and soul(consciousness).

When God condemned men to die in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 for instance, He decreed the destruction of all aspects of man - mind, body and soul ceased to exist upon death, as it was before its conception - dust to dust.

The mind is a part of the living being. So please help me understand your questions here, or at least the reasons behind them.

2. I also don't understand where the idea that a mind/soul cannot exist without the body comes from.

Truvelisback:
The soul can exist without body. It is the body that cannot exist without the soul.

Kobojunkie:
1. I don't understand your question? For this, can we define a human as consisting of a
■ mind(thoughts and memories),
■ body(physical vessel on earth),
■ and soul(consciousness).

When God condemned men to die in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 for instance, He decreed the destruction of all aspects of man - mind, body and soul ceased to exist upon death, as it was before its conception - dust to dust.

The mind is a part of the living being. So please help me understand your questions here, or at least the reasons behind them.

2. I also don't understand where the idea that a mind/soul cannot exist without the body comes from.

Kobojunkie:
1. We were all of us gentiles born under that judgement - unbelievers- , however,when we chose to believe in Jesus Christ, we are redeemed from the condemnation of Sin which is Death and bestowed with eternal life instead. So those who believe in Jesus Christ (both the wicked and the righteous in Jesus Christ) have eternal life.

Now as for the difference between the wicked and righteous- both believe in Jesus Christ- here on earth, apart from their fruits, there is not much difference. Jesus Christ elaborated this through several parables particularly the parable of wheat and tares - Matthew 13 vs 24 - 30. In the parable,
He explained that the righteous(wheat) and wicked(weed or tares) are both allowed to grow together until harvest, after which they are then judged and either rewarded or punished.

2. I believe you have Jesus's in Matthew 10 vs 27 - 29 figured upside-down. Those who can kill your body alone are men. God is able to destroy both the body and the soul. His Judgement, as given from the time of Adam condemns the mind, body and soul of men who reject Him - unbelievers. And His judgment to come through Jesus Christ condemns the body, mind and soul of the wicked to eternal damnation in Hell.

Kobojunkie:
1. According to God, there is only one Death and He decreed it in Genesis 2 vs 17 and condemned man to it in Genesis 3 vs 19- 22
[/quote}
Revelation mentions explicitly a second kind of death which isn't annihilation but a torment in the lake of fire
[quote author=Kobojunkie post=107562266]2. Unbelievers have no reason to worry about the punishment of a God - it's our fate from the moment we are born to cease to exist right from the point of conception. The only way to escape that fate is to believe in God.

Kobojunkie:
3. Physical death, for the unbelievers, is a ceasing of an existence.

* There are mentions of of second death, this in the writings of some of the apostles, but this seems in reference to the punishment of Hell.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the one revealing these things to John through signs or symbolic terms {Revelations 1:1} so just as Jesus always use symbolic terms to reveal sacred secrets {Matthew 13:13} he is still doing the same! Hebrews 13:8

Therefore when you read the Bible book of Revelation and try to see it in the literal sense then you can't understand the sacred secrets! Daniel 12:10

From the beginning the punishment God pronounced against sinners is death and nothing more! Genesis 2:17; 3:19; Romans 6:7

God said "tormenting living persons in fire has not come into His heart" {Jeremiah 7:31} so if you now find something contrary to these then you should know that Jesus is speaking in Parables, remember his usage of symbolic terms led most of his first century Jewish followers abandon him! John 6:61-66
So calm down and learn, God never promised the evildoers eternal life, it's a gift for only the righteous not the wicked! Romans 6:23

May you have PEACE!

Dtruthspeaker:
They know but as God is getting Closer, knowing their Judgement, they are trying to see if there is a way to cope.

They forget that The Law of "No eye has seen and no ear has heard NOR HAS IT ENTERED INTO THE HEART OF ANY MAN, WHAT THE LORD HAS IN STORE FOR THOSE WHO HATE HIM" is there waiting to be implemented.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am not the one with the closed eyes here. There is no need for me to to myself why hell is annihilation and this simply because Jesus Christ Himself stated that it is a place of eternal damnation - Matthew 25 vs 41 - 44 - case finis!

2. He didn't insert any fact because again it was a story He told, much like the tales you listen to by moonlight... meant as a way of teaching a particular lesson. You would know this from the fact that many of the elements used in the story are not based on truth found elsewhere in the Bible - assuming you are versed in the details of God's Law.

And there is absolutely no logic to assuming that a just God would not purnish wickedness.. the entire Bible is littered from beginning to end with stories of a Just God punishing wickedness, so I don't understand the foolishness behind the idea that a just God does not punish wickedness.

Kobojunkie:
3. The same Jesus Christ reiterated that physical death is indeed the end for unbelievers, those who reject Him. God declared this judgment from the beginning - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 - and Jesus Christ restated this several times in His teaching, referring to unbelievers as the 'dead'.

MaxInDHouse:
Death is the punishment for sin {Romans 6:23} all humans have sinned and fall short of the glory of God {Romans 3:23} due to what we all inherited from Adam! Romans 5:12
But for descendants of Adam who have proved to be righteous ones their punishment will be temporary since they proved to be obedient despite under the bondage of sin and death {Romans 5:17} they will be resurrected! Job 14:13-15
As for rebellious humans who followed after Adam their own punishment is eternal {2Peter 2:6; Jude 7} that's what eternal punishment means in the Bible not a place where they will continue breathing naaaaaaaa! Jeremiah 7:31


This means that survivors of the destruction of this system of things will never forget how God ended all evidoers, we will continue to tell the generations coming after Armageddon. Revelations 16:16


Of course death is the end of all evidoers because the wages of sin right from the beginning is not beyond death {Genesis 2:17; 3:19} so at death the evildoer has paid for all his evil, he has been discharged no more punishment! Romans 6:7
But we who survived all their evils will continue to remember them just as we keep remembering the acts of people like Cain, Pharaoh Ramses, Balam, Goliath, Jezebel, inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. All these people are gone forever but when we talk about them any listener will feel their pain as if it's still happening to them whereas they've paid fully for their evil at death! Romans 6:7

May you have PEACE!

LordReed:
For a body to withstand eternal torment must mean the body is tough be[i][/i]ast of a body wouldn't it? I mean it's not going to burn into ash I suppose and has to remain intact for the pain to be felt, that has to be an awesome body, even Superman would be jealous. LoL!

Dtruthspeaker:
You have rather established and proven my case in saying "The Creator can do and undo" which is what I implied .

There is no limit to what God can do to and over his creation, spirits.

Thus,
1) if lake of fire is "a place of torment" only but no death, it is based on the exclusive preserve and direction of The Creator (And I really do not care because I intend not to be there).

2) if the lake of Fire shall eventually kill and terminate the spirits there, it is still going to be based on the Exclusive Will of The Creator Who hath created it for that purpose, and so shall it be done. (And also, I still do not care for intend not to be there)

Therefore, all in all, the death or endless torment of the souls therein shall be according to The Will and Command of God, AT ALL TIMES.

So in either of these options or such further options as there might be, I still do not care for I intend not to be there.

And I believe now that you can appreciate that your statement "You can't kill them" is erroneous, for I am not the one who created lake of fire, neither am I the duly appointed to cast the convincts therein.

AntiChristian:
Na so so lies you dey bring here. Holy Spirit dey teach you lies?

The texts of Islam says Allah rose above the heavens in a manner befitting Him. He is not physically with us but His knowledge encompasses all things!

How many demons did Jesus treat while alive? Where is the statistics that 50% demons are Muslims?

Your lies are incurable!

1 Kings 8;29
May your eyes be open toward this temple night and day, this place of which you said, ‘My Name shall be there,’ so that you will hear the prayer your servant prays toward this place.

Daniel 6:10
Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before.





Mention a Bible verse that says the dead sees the Angels?

The dead are invisible living beings? So why are they dead if they are living?





Na for only Bible sons of God get John Thomas to impregnate women.

God Himself get sons so we wonder where the wife was! Maybe Mary from Earth!

Logically sons of God---------- Daughters of Men= Giants! Gen 6
God------------------------Mary = Jesus!

Acehart:
Thank you, you have done well. May we live in holiness and be at peace with everyone.

Kobojunkie:
1. None, it was a story, a means to an end.
2. None, again, this was a story told to teach a lesson. The main reason is in the lesson, not the story, same as is the case with some of the many other parables Jesus Christ told .e.g. the Parable of the 10 talents.
3. A warning was necessary because as you can see false prophets and Teachers did arise teaching falsehoods of the dead coming back to life to warn people in the name of God.

Acehart:
The writeup was about the final destination of the wicked; does it exist? The writeup suggests that at this present time, such a place doesn’t exist, but will exist (it will be created in the future). However, The Hell that exists now is Sheol or Hades, words for ‘the grave’ in Jewish or Greek translations respectively.

The first time Yeshua or Jesus mentions Hell fire (which you call Lake of fire) was in the beatitudes. He said, “whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.” (KJV translates fiery hell as Hell fire).

Acehart:
You said the lake of fire or Hell fire exists but it is empty; I’d like to ask you a question: In the resurrection of the dead, would the risen body tangible?

Acehart:
You get the point now