₦airaland Forum

Stimulus,


Enlighten us then

Imhotep,

OK, go ahead. Give it all to us so we may know what the OT/NT laws business is all about.

Imhotep,

This kind of stuff is very patronising. Do you need to be told to LOVE people?

Stimulus,


Please, pls, pls. I think you are bullshitting (pardon me, I don't mean to be insulting. I am using the BS word in a "philosophical sense" around. Watch this video and hope you get it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSdkyjszSt4

Stimulus,

The purpose of any law is to regulate society. I presume this would also apply to the OT laws, wouldn't it. I stand corrected, of course.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (to quote Carl Sagan). The christains are making extraordinary claims about the bible, as to its inspiration by god.

What would you expect from a book that is inspired by an omniscient being. I would expect ABSOLUTE perfection, and nothing less will do. Otherwise the claim for inspiration or omniscience have been wrongly attributed.

For the non-believers out there, check out this guys on Youtube. He never fails to impress me with he analysis of the bible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSdkyjszSt4

Enjoy

================================================================================


Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===============================================================================

It is usually claimed by christains that the bible is their source of moral guidance and that without the teachings of the bible (or the other holy books) that society would disintegrate into a jungle of animalistic (this is no slur on some animals, sorry Gengis. Gengis is my cat's name. Well it would be if I had one ) immorality. But is this really true? Does the society gets its moral from holy books?

So my question to all christians out there is the following;

If you were not a christian or believer in God, would you lead lead a life characterised by gross immorality, wanton debauchery, crimes, offenses?

If yes, why?

If not, why?

==============================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===============================================================================

Stimulus,

Pardon me, but I do not want to respond to your posting above. This is not to evade the issues you raised, but I want to take a slightly different tact on this thread. (So please do not accuse me of evasion )

Now, the reason I raised this thread was to raised the plight of people with non-belief all over the world who are feeling crowded out by a world where everybody believes in some form of diety(ies). This has resulted is a state where people are now feeling discriminated against at work, in their communities etc, for their lack of belief.

I think the reason for this is the high level of mis-understanding in the general public as to what atheism/atheist is all about. In some quarters, people think that atheists are criminal, child modester, killers etc, etc. In fact, figures show atheist are some of the most highly respected members of society. For instance, In the USA, atheist represent less than 1% of the prison population, whilst christians make about 75% (I don't make this as a jibe at Christians. I am simply stating facts. In fact, I believe that the truly committed christians are some of the best, kind people in the world. I am married to one and I will trust a truly committed christian with my life. I generally don't judge people first by whether they are christians or otherwise. I judge them simple by the content of their character, until the give a reason to think otherwise).

Now, why are atheists so maligned and calumnised in society? Is it because the general public knows little about who an atheist is?


I posted this thread so that people may know exactly what atheism is all about. We as a group have to work to reverse this outlook. Don't you agree? I know I have attacked your beliefs. But believe me, I am not attacking you as a person. I consider any form of beliefs as ideological stances that have to compete in the open market place for acceptability.

Imhotep,

Thanks for complying now and I accept you apologies. We may disagree on ideological issues but I respect you with ALL my being. If you were in Manchester, I would invite you to dinner today.

Many thankx

Very few bible believing christians read the bible. Even fewer still have ever bothered to research the origins of the OT and NT and how it was that the various separate and disparate books were collected together into one single book, called the christian bible today.

In fact, there is NO one recognised bible. The "Catholic bible" has about 6 more books than the Protestant bible (my terminology here may not be correct. So excuse me). So which bible did god exactly inspire?

Was it the bible with 66 books or the bible with fewer books or the bible with more books?



In fact, in the word of some academic biblical scholars (Bart Erhman, Misquoting Jesus), there are more variations in the existing textual manuscripts of the NT than there are words in the entire NT. That is, there are more than 20000 variations in the texts of the NT. Admittedly, the vast majority of these variations do not seem to have doctrinal implications. However, there are a few that clearly stand out and do seem have doctrinal consequences. Here there are:


1) John 7:53 - John 8:11. The story of the woman caught in adultery.

This story does not appear in the earliest existing Greek manuscript but seems to have been added in much later by some later scribes. In fact the bible right in front of me right now has the following words about this story;


SOME EARLY GREEK MANUSCRIPTS DO NOT CONTAIN 7:53 - 8:11


2) The doctrine of the Trinity (Can't remember the exact verse).

This too was not present in the earliest manuscript, but was added into the gospel as a doctrinal tool to fight the development of gnosticism. ( I shall get the exact details on this later, when I check all my sources. So I stand corrected on this one when better evidence comes in)


So if the NT is such a hotchpotch of text that has undergone many scribal mistranslations, errors, additions etc, which parts of it can be relied upon for doctrinal support? Can it still be said to be inspired? If so, which bits?


In fact I would let Bart Erhman pick up the story.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfSuninCn0&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6m07nmLe60&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZnIJoY3ZY&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDjZK8SMBxE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogG38VaSG3I&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKMsJvBLag&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QSmdtgehQE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJdq7MysUk&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TffAToyojg&feature=related



==============================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===============================================================================

I would totally agree were it not for the fact that I am an advocate of free-speech in all its forms. There is nothing more irksome as intellectual dishonesty, cowardice and slavish attachment to superstitions of yore. So how better to deal with than to encourage the intellectual dwarfs out so that they may be crushed in public.

Any takers on this one yet?

4HIM,

How long do you think it takes to convert organic matter in fossil fuels, like the petrol you use in your car? Try and correlate that with how long you think the earth has been around.

I am still waiting on OT law lessons on this one.

What are atheistic principles? As far as I know, there are NONE.

Atheism simply make ONE claim - that all beliefs in gods lack enough supporting verifiable evidence. I recognise there are subtle variations to this definition, ranging from weak atheism to strong atheism.

A weak atheist simply has no god-belief, although there might indeed exist such an entity. So, for instance, a child who has not learnt about the gods of their culture can be described as a weak atheist.

A very strong atheist may be defined as one who categorically denies the existence of a god(s). This is philosophy a very hard position to defend as it is logically impractical to prove a negative.

The nominal atheist claims that from the existence evidence, the likelihood of a god(s) is extremely small.


Now, as diverse as these definitions may be, they make ABSOLUTELY NO CLAIMS about morals, metaphysics, principles, ethics, origin of life, carbon-dating, football, sexuality, etc, etc, etc. Anything else imputed on atheism is no longer called atheism.

I hope this is clear for those of you finding it hard to understand this simply idea.

===============================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
================================================================================

jagunlabi,

You have to understand that science is a very conservative enterprise. Present-day scientific paradigm are moved only slowly, and rightly so. When all the evidence comes in, to the extend where the current situation is no longer tenable, I guarantee you that this will become ordinary scientific fact.

BTW, I do not think that that has now been replaced by a better theistic explanation.

4HIM,

They used the science and technologies of the day, as simple as that. Did they do it using theistic engineering?

Francis Collins was the director of the Genome Project (have you ever heard of such a thing). GO READ his work, for goodness sake. You may learn a thing or two.

Thankx jagunlabi for your responses.

I don't agree with your premise on question 4. Think of the time when we only had stone. Human intelligence is improving all the time, although the metric for intelligence remain a very problematic imprecise one. If we only measure this as a functions of the technologies we have developed, then humans over the last ~10000 years have clear achieved more that earlier humans.

4HIM,

Let's assume you or any of your family fell ill (say with some genetic condition) and they went to hospital, would you prefer that the doctors be experts in biology (DNA, genetics etc) or would you rather they were experts in the bible?

PS. I dont't know where I get the patience to come down so low. This smacks of debating with a 10 year old.

4HIM,

If you were really interested you would go read these books. Do I NEED to tell you that? Apparently looks like I need to.

Still seeking answers to these questions;

1) Should we interpret the creation story as given in Genesis literally or metaphorically in the light of the scientific evidence?

2) Should we interpret the story of the Jewish sojourn in Egypt literally given that there is little archeological evidence in its favour (I know this is an argument from silence, but this should cast doubt on its plausibility)

3) Should we interpret the Noah Flood literally?

4) Should we take the Exodus 21:17 literally?

5) Should we believe that jesus was born of a virgin?

6) Should we believe that state rulers are selected by god as given in Romans 13?

4HIM,

Does the other thread have my beautifully-crafted essay, and my five incisive questions ?

Imhotep,

Please, can you refrain from debating on this thread?

Thanks for your cooperation

4HIM,

I get the sense that you have learnt to read and write without being EDUCATED or SCHOLARLY. When I make reference to my source (viz, Francis Collins & Ken Miller) you seem to brush these aside as though these sources are bogus. What sort of attitude is that? It smack of the eclesiatically book-burning of yore.

Shall I deal with the cosmological arguments for an old earth? Can you find sources on the internet dealing with such materials? That is an exercise for you, boy.

Any comments on this?

Stimulus


[b]Perhaps you could have had a valid point if you'd looked carefully again that the 100 year-gap misses the point!

Look again: Matthew traces the genealogy from Abraham; while Luke traces it past Abraham backwards to Adam! At least no less than 15 names were mentioned from Abraham backwards to Adam in Luke's genealogy account; while Matthew skips those 15 names and starts from Abraham!

Did you ever sit down and try to ask yourself why Matthew traces the genealogy forwards from Abraham; while Luke traces it backwards from Joseph past Abraham and unto Adam?

This alone should make you understand that they were not trying to be stereotypical in their accounts; and by this is not stating that there was a descripancy between them! Rather, we are looking at the reasons behind why they adopted thes distinct approaches!

Among the various reasons that might be adduced, I'd give you that Matthew traces it the genealogy with Jewish interest to the promised "Kingdom" according to the Davidic lineage!

In Luke's case (being himself a physician - Col. 4:14), he traces the genealogy back to the first man, Adam; so as to convince his audience (primarily Theophilus) that Jesus Christ was actually truly Man! This is why Luke takes on the conception in more detail than you find in the synoptic Gospels (compare Luke 1:26 - 31 with the mention of His birth in Matthew 1).

Clearly, Matthew and Luke had clear objectives in theor accounts of the genealogy. You're looking at issues you have not been able to defend as a means to making allegations that miss the gist! Do you care to point out that the above could not be so in the distinct approaches in Matthew and Luke on the Genealogy? Cheesy
[/b]



With due respect you commit several logical flaws in your posts, given above.

First a genealogical list is simply that; whether it is given front-2-back or back-2-front, it should matter not a bit, as long as all the relevant parties are included in the correct order. By itself, it carries not order information but that.

Now the genealogy of Matthew runs thus;

Abraham - David - - - - - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph - Jesus.

The genealogy of Luke runs thus;

Adam - - - Abraham - David - Matthat - Heli - Joseph - Jesus.


What I would have expected in both genealogies from David to Jesus was the same number of generations, or there abouts. Let's allow for a margin of error of 2 or 3 generations, amounting to about 39-45 years, on the calculation the first children were born to 13-15year old mothers.

Now, but the generational gap is 15, a staggering 195 - 225 years.

Why don't you go and perform a small experiment. Take a sample of say 10 people of similar age to yourself and your partner. For each of these people, go back 10 generation in their family tree. You will notice that the 10th generation grand-parents will have been born within the same decade or two from one-another.

To have a generational gap of hundreds of years is simply unheard-of.


Now, Luke's genealogy is even more problematic given that he extends it to the apparent start of humanity in the garden of Eden. On his calculation, humans have been on earth no more than 10000years. This is simply BOGUS.

Humans (Homo sapients) have walked the earth circa 120K - 200K years. Why don't you read Dr. Francis Collins "The Language of God" or Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God".

Pardon me please, any arguments contravening the genetic/DNA analysis is simply argument from ignorance. Unless you come up with well attested scientifically verified alternatives. Science is always ready for a paradigm shift, until such a time the genetic/DNA analysis remains the most plausible explanation.

Eclair,

I wonder why? BTW, what did you just do?

Stimulus,

"what was the purpose of the OT Laws?"

I do not know. Please enlighten me.