Therationa's Posts
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stimulus:No GOOD god would prescribe such awful acts onto his children, however sinful they may be. This is simply preprostrous that you admit that a due punishment for being sinful. BTW, STOP accusing me of plagiarism. Anyone who READS the bible should know this stuff , and I spent a lot of time reading the bible as a kid. To show you that I know them does not make it plagiarism, does it. There are many millions of people out there who are also aware of the MONSTROSITY of the bible but would rather stay quiet. I just don't stay mouth shut. |
4Him:How do you know there were not meant to be taken literally? The context does not say so. Granted, most of the text does not say it happened, as it is reported in the future. But that is ducking the point. This is GOD saying HE will make people eat other people. Is this acceptable behaviour? If you had found such a text in the koran of the Aztec holy book what would have been your opinion? But Lamentations 4:10, actually reports it as having happened. Check it out. |
Anyone on this one? |
stimulus:Goodness. Why are you guys in the habit of making insults like - "cheapen your intellect". I worked for many years (10 years) as a Civil Engineer and learnt in the course of my career how to detect signs of ancients earthquakes. Of course, if it not found, this does not mean the earthquake did NOT happen. Only that if the signs are found, it strengthens the case as reported in the bible. Got it. |
I am going by your bible. But when was he crucified? That is the question. Stay on topic. |
4Him:How long does it take to eat ice-cream and mashmellows? |
Ohh no Oh no, Oh no! A crusade against me? My goodness. I have been being naughty ![]() |
Apparently, it is God who is responsible for selecting the rulers of countries be they democratic or otherwise, dictators, tyrants or benign rulers. If this is the case, and given God's omniscience, you would expect God's selection procedure would ensure only the righteous and just are made rulers of their countries. However, this is not what really happens. From time immemorial, we have seen rulers pillage and destroy their countries, to the detriment of their own citizens; think of most of Africa. Nigeria is a case in point. One of the most religious nations on earth, with the level of privations not untypical of the 15 century. What is happening with God's ministration? This is what the Apostle Paul had to say about the rulers of countries, Romans 13; 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. In the light of the above, should an oppressed people seek to overthrow a corrupt and unjust ruler? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
Gamine:I would like to know why you think this wicked book is the word of god. |
Few Christians and non-christians are aware of the monstrous nature of some parts of the bible, a book unwisely sometimes called the Good Book. A more apt name would be more like the Monstrous Book. Yet this book is claimed in some quarters to have been inspired by God. Can a good and loving god command acts of cannibalism? Here is the evidence; Deuteronomy 28:53-57 Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. The most gentle and sensitive woman among you - so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot - will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For she intends to eat them secretly during the siege and in the distress that your enemy will inflict on you in your cities. Lev 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. Jeremiah 19: 9 I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives. Lamentation 4:10 With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed. Ezekiel 5:10 Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. 2 Kings 6:26-29 As the king of Israel was passing by on the wall, a woman cried to him, "Help me, my lord the king!" The king replied, "If the Lord does not help you, where can I get help for you? From the threshing floor? From the winepress?" Then he asked her, "What's the matter?" She answered, "This woman said to me, 'Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we'll eat my son.' So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him." There may indeed be more instance of cannibalism, but these are the ones I have been able to find. I have already started a discussion about human sacrifice in the bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112584.0.html. ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
CANNIBALISM IN THE BIBLE; Deuteronomy 28:53-57 Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. The most gentle and sensitive woman among you - so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot - will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For she intends to eat them secretly during the siege and in the distress that your enemy will inflict on you in your cities. Lev 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. Jeremiah 19: 9 I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives. Lamentation 4:10 With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed. Ezekiel 5:10 Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. Also see; 2 Kings 6:26-29 Can I rest my case now? |
Any updates on THE DOCUMENTARY HYPOTHESIS? Or is this too much to ask? |
Anyone knows when Jesus was nailed and stabbed? |
Any christians brave enough to defend human sacrifice and cannibalism in their bible? |
4Him:What a waste, what a waste !! |
Goodness, what a waste, what a waste. |
4Him:So are the 10 commandments individual commandments OR are they communal (national) commandments? If the Nation as a whole did not adopt other Gods, was it OK for individuals to adopt their own personal gods, since you suggest that that law was given as a National commandment? |
4Him:Back to you old tactic again. Changing the question. And you would accuse me of not staying about to defend my views. How do you expect me to stay about when that is NOT the questions I asked? I would have liked something like: It is the world of God because; It contained the truth the origin of humankind, the origin of the world, it correctly predicted the development of supercomputers, it correctly foreshadowed the event of the world wars etc. But you are playing evasive games. This shows you are not prepared to stick your neck out for what you believe. You are only comfortable amongst the credulous and ignorant, so you can bamboozle them by quoting and jumping from verse to verse showing off your skills of memory, but nothing else. What a way you underuse/abuse those little gray cells. |
4Him:I wrote my last piece from memory but my drift was well on target. Now I have looked it up and I quote from my bible; Exodus 20: 5: You must not worship or serve any idol because I am the Lord thy God, am a jealous God. If you hate me, I will punish your children, and even you grandchildren, and great grandchildren. How did I get it wrong? In my previous post I was quoting from the Old English version I learnt as a child. BTW, the examples you gave are just bizarre. Nowhere in civil society are people deliberately punished for the crimes/offense of their parents. And I meant DELIBERATE. Everyone suffers in wars, innocent and the culpable, not least the children. But that does not make it a deliberate act to inflict cruelty on the non-combatants. In fact there are specific Geneva conventions that serve to limit and prohibit such acts. But the bible is replete with instances where women, children and animals are ordered to be killed by GOD for the acts of their fighting parents. What kind of GOD is this? Would you not expect compassion from such a GOD?. And you call yourself a Christian. If you are a Christian, I would hate to be friends with such a person with such twisted morals. What a MONSTROUS god you defend. |
4Him:This is breathtaking inanity. If there really was a time when children paid for the sins of their fathers, this makes you god all the more MONSTROUS. In fact, in the 10 commandments, it say something like "visiting the iniquities of the father on the children on the fourth generation". This is simple monstrous. Why do you labour to defend/support such a monster? |
It is claim by Christians that the bible is the inspired word of God, and we have only their word on this. But how could a skeptic go about verifying the Christian's claim? Is there any evidence within and/or without the bible that proves that it is the word of God? If a skeptic is presented with a copy of the Qu'ran, the Bible, and other religious text from other tradition, what attributes or criteria could she use to select the most likely to have been inspired, given that they all claim to possess the word/truth of God? OR Should we just accept the claim because it says it is? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617 Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html How Is Salvation Achieved? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
This is very interesting subject. Before the programs is aired, I would like to get viewers to think about what would constitute good evidence to verifying that this probably Jesus's tomb. Firstly, where would they go for such evidence? Roman records, Jewish records or Christian records. If any of these records are consulted for corroborating the physical evidence on the tomb, how would you validate that record? For instance, in the Christian record, it is said that on the event of Jesus resurrection, there was a Great Earthquake which helped rolled the stone from the tomb entrance. Are there any corroborating evidence of such a massive earthquake in Jerusalem around 33 CE? |
Is anyone aware of any prophesies that have been fulfilled, not fulfilled [/b]or [b]still to be fulfilled. Please, can you share such informations with us. If the prophesies have been fulfilled, can you state what the prophesy was(is), how and when it was fulfilled. For the un-fulfilled prophesies, can you state why they remain un-fulfilled and when they are expected to be fulfilled? |
4Him:This is just an evasion tactic. If you were debating with a m-uslim the existence of God would not be the issue. It would be whether the bible/qu'ran are his inspired words (or whether Jesus is his son or God; or Mu-hammed is prophet) So before I believe in you God, I need to verify that what you claim to be his word is indeed his word. If it does not stand the test of my scrutiny, I reserve the option to not believe. BTW, having a strong believe or conviction about something does not make it a fact. The ancients strongly believed that the Sun revolved about the earth, or that the earth was flat. Both of which turned out to be false, however strongly these believed were held. |
Anyone knows what the Arians and athanasians thought the nature of Jesus was? |
Anyone knows what Christianity is all about? |
Anyone to stay on topic here? |
Anyone to stay on topic here? |
OLAADEGBU Please, can you answer the questions about SALVATION? That is the topic of this thread. |
OLAADEGBU:Are you suggesting that one must FIRST believe in God to understand these things. What kind of circular logic is this? |
olabowale:Many, many many thanks Olabowale. This is how I expect to see responses to these questions. Unlike the evasion I am seeing from my Christian friends. Looks like they have something to hide. Or maybe them do not know. Let this be a lesson for those Christians out there. I shall need to time to digest your response though. Many thankx again |
imhotep:C'mon man, How can you really say questions about SALVATION are not a good question. I asked a simply questions. Is salvation achieved by works or faith. You are just being evasive. |

Perhaps the reason why no one initially even bothered saying anything here is because they do not wish to be entertained by recycled and already stale arguments!

Many thankx again