₦airaland Forum

imhotep:
Beautiful.

@therationa and co:
God is too powerful to be threatened or limited by the foolish questions emanating from your faulty reasoning.

Imhotep & Stimulus,

Where is my faulty logic? I have just given you guys what I got from my bible. The WARNING that some verses are not found in the earliest Greek manuscript and seem to have been added much later on. I got that WARNING from my bible. Where is the faulty reasoning in that?

BTW, have any of you guys ever done academic research? Are you familiar with the tradition of using other reputable and trusted source as a means of shoring up ones arguments?

I have given you my sources, one of which is Bart Erhman. This guy is in most the immenent committee for the interpretation of NT material (can't remember the name exactly) In fact, the entire scholarly community has a consensus on these verses. That is why most new bibles these days are printed with those warnings. Do you think I am making things up. It behooves you guys to take on the academic bodies and stop misinforming the largely ill-educated audience you target.

And I have not even mentioned God getting people to cannibalise their children (or other people). Yummmmy, Yummmmy, Yummmmy, human flesh.

Evil Evil Evil Evil Bible Evil Evil evil Bible Evil Evil Evil Evil Bilbe



How worse can it get. In fact, is there a monstrous crime that ia NOT sanctioned in the bible?

4Him:
It is becoming clear that you are not taking out time to cross-check your facts before concluding: did Leviticus 27:29 actually advocate human sacrifice?

Lev 27: 29 None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

In what context is this verse speaking and "what" is to be surely put to death? Verse 28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

the inclusion of "man" as part of the devoted things unto the Lord that cannot be sold or redeemed is what is causing confusion (i believe it is a deliberate misrepresentation on the part of those deliberately out to find any fault with the bible). \

I ask a simple question . . . if truly God meant that men devoted unto God shld be put to death why then do we NEVER come across any instance of these "devoted" human sacrifices? there are tons of reports of burnt offerings (animal sacrifices), food offerings e.t.c. but NOT ONE MENTION of a human sacrifice unto the Lord . . . it could mean these things:

1. God did not indicate human sacrifice, the jews understood what was meant there
2. God did mean them to sacrifice humans but the Jews deliberately disobeyed
3. There was not a single man devoted unto God in the entire bible.

Where there men devoted unto God? Yes - Samuel was an example of one dedicated into the temple . . . rather than being sacrificed he took over from Eli as priest in Isreal (read I Samuel).

The Levites were also dedicated to God - not a single one of them had to be sacrificed but their lineage produced all the priests of the jewish temple.

Did God frown at human sacrifice? Yes - Lev 18: 21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Dear, take your time to read the bible yourself . . . by merely buying into the false propaganda of those determined to desecrate the bible, you make a fool of your own intelligence.

My version of the bible (New Century Version) KJV has the following for Lev 27: 29

If anyone is given for the purpose of being destroyed, he cannot be brought back; he must be put to death.


Need I say more.

A case were this is put into practice is narrated in Judges 11 where Jephthah sacrifices his own daughter to god.

Why don't you read it. I am sure you would enjoy the Judges 11 and a paragon of human virtue. Could you do something like that?

4Him:
R.G Price lied when he said and i quote - 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The jews brought forward a blasphemy charge against Christ because He pronounced Himself as God (and rightfully so) in the presence of several witnesses.

What have you got a beef about? Is it the difference between calling HIMSELF or GOD?. Whichever, it still looks like blasphemy to me. I am not an expert on the Sanhedrin, but that is just my humble opinion.

BTW, Price is qouting the Sanhedrin document. So it is unfair to call him a liar. Not least because the you are comparing Price to the bible and the bible is not an authenticated (reliable) historical source.

You are going off course here - deal with the substance of the question; When was Jesus crucified?

4Him:
@ therationa . . . think for a moment . . . if indeed the above were "sanctioned" and "commanded" by the christian God why are jews and christians not engaging in human sacrifice, slavery, rape, pillaging of villages and slashing the bellies of pregnant women?
Isnt that a case of flagrant disobedience?

4HIM,

Well, either these things are in the bible and used to be the practice at the time (circa 2500 - 4000 years ago) OR there are NOT in the bible.

If it is indeed true that the bible narratives of these events are historical facts commanded by god (as it says) then the bible is EVIL. If these are allegories, or metaphors or inventions then the bible CANNOT be described as being evil.

BUT it cannot cut both ways. You cannot have both.

Human civilisation has naturally developed with time. Even without god, if indeed these acts were performed by the Jews at the time, customs might have changed such that they have now become outmoded.

Yet again,

THE BIBLE AND THE KORAN ARE ONE OF THE MOST EVIL BOOKS AROUND. (or rather the bible and the koran contain a LOT of evil acts command by god). From

Human sacrifice - Lev 27:29
Slavery
Rape
Pillaging of village killing defenseless women and children
Tearing the bellies of pregnant women and smashing the babies head against a wall


EVIL
EVIL
EVIL
EVIL
EVIL

Who can say these things are NOT commanded or condoned or sanctioned by the bible or god?

imhotep:
@therationa

You can see that the Jews that lived 2000 years ago were much more discerning that you: with all your logic and rationality, internet and research work.

These Jews understood the implication of being a Son of God ->

Cat can only beget cat.
Man can only beget man.
God can only beget God!!!

Imhotep,

Are you interested in looking at this from a historical basis, OR are you only wanting to preach and do theology?

4Him:
John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

R.G. Price should do more research.

4HIM,

Please, could you explain more. I don't get the point you are making.

anybody now cares to comment on the analysis of R. G. Price? about the crucifixion?

I have added more historical context to the posting.

stimulus:
@therationa,

Lol. I'm rather fascinated that you've become so entranced by Christianity - so much so that you seem to whip up every excuse to not believe its claims when you haven't been able to hold a rational discourse to a logical end in your previous efforts. When your time arrives, we will read you like Anthony Flew.

Flew is NOT, NOT NOT a christian.

When was Jesus crucified? Well, this may look like a trivial question, but it is not. The clue is - well it depends on which gospel you read.

One gospel says Jesus was crucified on the day before passover while another says on the day of after passover.

Now, which gospels gives the most likely version of events? Well, why not toss a coin?

To think that the Jewish courts, Sanhedrin, would have convened on the night before a major religious festival (the passover) to convict a common criminal (Jesus) strains every sense of plausibility imaginable.

This also has implications for how long Jesus is supposed to have been dead. If it is anything other than THREE DAYS long, then that violate his own prediction that he was going to be dead three days.

What do you guys think?

==========================================================================
==========================================================================

A bit of Historical Background from R.G Price, Jesus, A very Jewish Myth, Page 129.

Here is what a recent research (R. G. Price http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm ) of the period has to say about the crucifixion of Jesus.


Jesus' crucifixion on Passover defies historical believability, yet makes perfect sense metaphorically

According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified on either the first day of Passover or the day before Passover, depending on the Gospel. The synoptics have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover, while John puts the crucifixion on the day before. This itself defies reason, as Passover is considered one of the holiest of Jewish holidays, and this holiday not only took considerable preparation, but was a time of forgiveness and celebration. It is also when the Jews made public sacrifices to their god. That the Jewish authorities would have held a public execution of someone at this time is itself pretty well beyond belief.

Not only this, but the arrest and (very short) trial of Jesus supposedly took place at night on Passover eve. That the Sanhedrin (the Jewish body of judges) would have assembled in the middle of the night on Passover eve to pass a quick judgment on anyone defies reason, but when you add to this the fact that in the story the members of the council slap Jesus and spit in his face the implausible borders on the impossible. To say that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on someone in a trial is like saying that the justices of the Supreme Court would slap and spit on defendants. Yes, these were ancient times, but the institutions being talked about here were formal institutions that didn't just convene on a whim and they didn't act like savages, much less on Passover eve.

Here are rules of the Sanhedrin that were in place at the time according to the Jewish Mishnah:

* 1) No criminal session was allowed at night.
* 2) No Sanhedrin trial could be heard at any place other than the Temple precincts.
* 3) No capital crime could be tried in a one-day sitting.
* 4) No criminal trial could be held on the eve of a Sabbath or festival.
* 5) No one could be found guilty on his own confession.
* 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.
* 7) The Sanhedrin were allowed to execute people on their own and did not need the Romans to do so for them.

The trial of Jesus according to the Gospels violated all of these rules.

More information on the laws of the Sanhedrin can be found here: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/sanhedrin.html

So, the story of Jesus' arrest and execution seems quite implausible at the outset, but when one considers the symbolism of the story it becomes apparent that the basis for this story is theological, not historical.

On Passover, at the time that this story is supposedly taking place, the Jews provided many sacrifices, most of them as burnt offerings, meaning animals that were slaughtered and then burned on a fire. In addition to these sacrifices there was a special sacrifice of a lamb which was not burnt, but was instead eaten.

Josephus tells us of this tradition:

The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the ewe lamb which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days.
- Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus

This special lamb is a sacrifice specifically for the forgiveness of sins.

The crucifixion of Jesus on Passover is a metaphor for this sacrificial lamb. This symbolism was, perhaps, one of the earliest and most developed parts of Jesus Christ theology among the early followers of the Christ mythos among the Jews. The idea of Jesus Christ as a sacrificial lamb is first recorded in the letters of Paul from 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul associates immoral people with yeast and urges his correspondents to expel an immoral man from among their group:




==============================================================================


Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===============================================================================

These questions remain unanswered. Any takers today, pls?

Have you recently converted to christianity or i-slam? Are you sure you have done the right thing? Were you satisfied with the answers to the questions to asked when you were considering converting? I don't know about you, but if I was presented with an opportunity to convert to a new religion, here are are some of the questions I would like to ask the proselytiser;

1) What is the epistemic method for determining truth, knowledge or the nature of god?

2) Can these methods be validated?

3) How do we get to know god's attributes and how are we sure it is the REAL god and not some other impersonator?

4) Does person experience constitute an objective method of assessing evidence?




These are the ones that have come to mind right now, but I can certainly think of more.

I would like to know what pre-conversion questions you people have got to assess the validity of the religious claims of the proselytisers.


================================================================================


Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
==============================================================================

imhotep:
Those who hold this view constitute an insignificant minority that do not make any lasting impact on humanity.

JeSoul:
and how comforting that is!

Let me give the names of the three greatest philanthropist ever:

Warren Buffet - 1st/2nd richest person - Given many billions of dollars to charities
Bill Gates - 1st/2nd richest person - Also given billions of dollars to charity
Canargie - Was world's riches man in 19th century. Gave nearly all his wealth to charities

All the above men have done a lot more to help humankind than all the bible thumpers of the world put together. And what do they all have in common. They are all non-believers.


Some more non-believers;

Albert Einstein
Voltaire
Darwin
Thomas Edison
Thomas Paine
David Hume
etc

The ideas of these men have help shape the world that you currently inhabit. If you do not know how, PLEASE, go educate yourself.

Imhotep & Stimulus,


I am still waiting on this one

The bible is one of the most EVILS works on the planet. PERIOD.

Are there any reasons for me to believe the "Woman caught in Adultery" story in the bible as authentic?

These questions were meant for breakfast, NOT dinner time. C'mon guys.

Any takers on these issues, pls?

Any takers here?

Anyone watched these video and care to comment?

imhotep:
@therationa
Jesus knows His true lineage. He did have to rely on Jewish genealogists to inform Him.

My Goodness. This is breathtakingly bizarre. I thought Jesus was also god. How could a god not have known and had to rely of Jewis genealogist. Are you making it up as you go along?

These people are in the business of marketing hope and god. But are they also exploiting vulnerable people? Granted, there are some who are sincerely doing God's work (I refrain from saying, if only they knew better), as illusory as that may be. But recently there has been an explosion of such ministries especially in the USA, but also in other parts of the world now. These people are raking in millions from contribution from their congregations and live luxurious lifestyles at the expense of their ministries (Benny Hinn comes to mind). I cannot help but feel sorry for the congregants. In my less charitable state, I say that should serve them right for being so credulous and gullible.

What happened to the following;

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god.

I have heard of instance where people have given away their life's saving and work to such ministries. Why are such people rarely expose? Why do they have such huge following. Is it not obvious to these followers that they are being fleeced?

Take the case of Peter Popoff who was caught redhanded by James Randi fraudulently feigning receiving messages from god in the 1980. His ministry suffer and he declared bankruptcy following that exposure. But guess what! He is back again on TV fleecing some more gullible people.


Others have had disreputable financial and sexual records - Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggard, Ted Haggard.

There is a Kenya minister by the name of Gilbert Deya, who is also in the business of scamming he poor congregation by claiming to lead childless couples to pregnancy. This has been investigated by the authorities in the UK and Kenya and has been found to a fraud - surprise surprise, surprise. There is current an extradition warrant out on his head from the Kenya authorities to face charges of child-trafficking.

When are people going to stop being so credulous and gullible. Hence my appeal for an education in rationalism and scepticism.

Watch the following videos to see the extend of these frauds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGmLFSPkyhs&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly-LZ6MGnj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKCVyEhIoHg&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcbcabspeOc&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-oKCi2jolA&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg9dWVXyAZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXOEAz46vMk&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLV4zjfwQxY&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4no1-uec3N8&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6I0jcG2pCs&feature=related



=====================================================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

Apparently, sin is said to have originated in GOD'S own kingdom, in his backyard. What are we to make of this account?

That God created sin in his own palace, or was he unable to prevent the generation/creation of the notion of sin? What does this say about his omniscience/omnipotence? Apparently, many other angels have been in the business of sinning ever since the very first one sinned. Who said only this world was sinful then?

If he is unable to deal with sin in his on backyard, can we trust him to deal with it here on earth. By the evidence, I would say NO. He has tried many many times before and failed; Sodom/Gomorah, Noah's Flood etc. are cases in point.

How could he NOT have known that his attempts at eradicating sin would fail miserably?

If he has not been successful in dealing with sin on earth and in heaven, should we believe him when he say that THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH will be free from sin?

What is going to stop the angels from starting the process all over again?


God is the author of evil according to the following verses:

* (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."


* (Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"



===============================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===================================================================================

Stimulus,

Matt 1: 16 says the following;

"Jacob was the father of Joseph. Joseph was the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus. Jesus is called the Christ"

So to summarise;

David ------------ Joseph - Jesus

According to this account Mary is not related to David. Mary is Joseph's wife.


What are you talking about? Lukes account also does not have Mary on the tree.

Some important bible questions;

1) Was Jesus born in the reign of Herod, or in the reign of Quirinius?

2) Was Jesus crucified on the day BEFORE passover or the day OF passover?

3) Why was Jesus never ever called Immanuel (Emmanuel) as apparently prophesised?

4) After his resurrection, did he ascend into heaven immediately or did he stay awhile with him people?

5) After his birth, did his parents escape into Egypt with him or not?

6) How old was Ahaziah when he began his reign?

7) En route to Damascus on the event of Paul's conversion, did he alone see and/or hear the vision?

8-) Did Paul go to Jerusalem to meet with the other apostle immediately following his conversion OR did he wait some years before going?

Imotep,


This is breathtaking ! So should we believe that he was descended from David? And how was he descended? Would you apply such levity to the Koran or any other non-christian religious text?

Any takers on this one?

Imhotep,

Pardon me. Looks like you are clutching at straws. You have completely evaded the centrality of my questions. I shall restated them;

1) Both Luke and Matt give Jesus' father as Joseph but totally different paternal grand-generations. How come?

2) You guys have made the case that Luke's is actually Mary's genealogy, although Mary's name does not appear anywhere in the tree of both accounts. Even if I concede this point, there are still a lot of problems with the account.

3) Luke's account has 15 generations more that Matt's. This simply does not make sense. It would imply Mary's was much older than Joseph when Jesus was born.

4) Luke's account extends to the start of humanity, implying humanity started about 10000 years ago. But this is BOGUS.


These are the central issues about this question. Put you thinking hat, please, before attempting them again. Don't just recite verbiage from the bible.

Bawomolo,

This is my current area of research. It is generally called the Jesus Mythicist Theory.

There are some good books/authors about this.


Earl Doherty
G. A. Wells
Robert M Price
Burton L Mack
Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy
Bishop Spong
etc
etc

My junior brother is an evangelical christian who believes that in our MODERN AGE people have been know to be raised from the dead through prayers. He reads a lot of the evangelical material some of which contain stories of raising from the dead.

I did ask him the following question;

What if we were to go to our grand-fathers grave side, who has been dead 50 years and say prayers, what are the chances that we would see him rising from beneath the soil?

I said to him that I was prepared to accept a probabilistic answer - 0%, 10% 50% or 100%. Guess what, I got none.

What do you guys think about the question above?