₦airaland Forum

emiye: You also have failed to answer my question? Is it socialism you want? Lagos state with 18 million nigerians and 500 billion naira budget. What is the Pa/ capita annually? Do the Maths. N28,000 for each lagosian annually. N2,400 montly per lagosian.

If it is simplistic as you are putting it, many low income earners with 5 /6 kids will not send them to primary school at all. What i am advocating it is that when you are in a hole, you dont dig further. cut your family size and plan. Government will not solve majority of the problems, if things stay the way they are at the moment, i am a big advocate of true federalism, a change in the current structure of the country

More often than not. People dont also make right choices of leaders, they sell their conscience and vote for a paltry N200.

where was the question please ? I don't advocate for Socialism and i am not against it either.
You know i spent years learning to analyse speeches and cognitive behaviours, if all the 18 million lagosians as you stated were civil servants then i rather drown in the thames maybe. Don't try to defend something you know is wrong. I have heard that kind of logic and mathematics being used over and over whenever a new austerity measure is to be forced down the throats of the masses(new tax,fuel price hike,tuition hike,electricity tariff hike etc) because due to their ignorance whenever things like GDP , per capita income etc are used in statements they usually give up analysing it.
It is that simple AS I HAVE PUT IT and let me tell you why you find it very hard to understand. IT IS BECAUSE YOU LIKE MOST OTHERS ARE BLIND!! You fail to look around you before you comment, you fail to think through what you observe before you choose sides. You fail to see that those chicken sellers, hawkers, okada riders , akara sellers etc ARE THE PEOPLES WAY OF FILLING IN WHAT THE GOVERMENT FAILED TO DO. It will always be hard for you to understand until you open your eyes and use your brain and work tirelessly to get yourself enlightened on how the world works. Then you will find out that without hawking,riding okada, selling chicken and a list of survival means our HARD WORKING masses had resorted to their children would not go to school or have three square meals a day.
I saw a newspaper article where the Governor of Edo State was asked why he would not ban Okada and carry out same policies like Fashola , he gave his reasons and his reasons were like a true leader who really understands Class Struggles and how the system he lives in works. Go do a google search and read for yourself.

emiye: You people always come up with "earning minimum wage " examples all the time,
Why should you be earning minimum wage and have 17 years + children due for university ? Did you start working when the child was due for uni. education? Cut me some slack over all this simplistic bulllshitt.

While expecting the Government to do its own bit, it is important you do yours. You have limited control on the Government as an individual(elections every 4 years), but a greater control in shaping your family outlook.

With the current GDP per capita of the country, a budget of 5 trillion Naira for 170 million Nigerians, 500 billion naira for 18million Lagosians you will need to prove that socialism is the way out.

Our Politicians are greedy and selfish, but make no mistake the poor man on the street is likewise greedy and selfish. He only complains ,because he is not tall enough for his hand to reach the national cake.

Family planning for me is not limited to child spacing or bearing, it is an all encompassing tool that includes (number of children, savings/investment, housing, wards education) for the family.

I have seen many supposedly low income earners who has realised that times are hard and learnt to cut their coat according to their cloth,focused on priorities and in a matter of years turn around their fortunes.

Yes University education is not a guarantee of success, but it gives you a greater chance of competing and succeeding.

I don't see the point in your post, i asked a question in the post you quoted and you could have answered that.
Will minimum wage be enough for one child ? Even if the child is in high school and the mom is a single parent. And please don't include medicals,transport and clothing in your calculation, just rent, feeding and education (for the child) for the two .
There are millions of parents that earn minimum wage and their children is of university age or already in University.
Sometimes we talk as if we all don't live in the same society and you can't look around you and see the way those policies are causing living cost to go up. Everything keeps getting expensive cause of goverment tax, you can't turn your head without paying another VAT, fuel price increased every two years and cost of transport soaring, electricity tariff has jumped to almost 25naira per kilowatt hour and where can you even find clean water ?
I guess your kind is the one that would suggest they should trek to avoid the transport cost, take their bath once a week, and have only one bulb in their house which they would use for just an hour every night. Do you even know how much is a litre of Kerosene in the market or would they not cook anymore all in your bid to cut their coat according to YOUR STYLE(no more their size)
Let's be humans for once and look carefully around us and see what is really going on.

ba7man: @ Thoth. You could forward some of your points in a write-up to a state Government to challenge them if they are truely for the people. Don't know how to go about that effectively without connections but i think you have points they can build on.

Don't worry, they know what to do and how to do it, they just don't want to do it. All it takes is common sense and a little research.

@ Olumide.
Keep in mind that the kind of democracy we are practicing makes the system susceptible to rigging. With the western style of Democracy the person with the richest supporter usually wins the election. Believe me the IMF/World Bank is an extremely Rich and powerful supporter.

Sibrah: Talking about Government providing houses, i don't exactly agree with that idea, what i expect the Lagos state government to do is provide low interest, long term Loans targeted at estate developers. This should reduce the cost burden developers usually try to offload to their clients within short periods and make housing lucrative for developer and affordable to clients as well.

That is exactly Government providing Affordable housing, there are many ways Governments of different nations tackle housing problems, they provide low rent housing built by the government, provide long term low interest loans for people to buy houses, give incentives to house buyers like tax exemption for a long period of time which makes the purchase and overall savings attractive. You just mentioned one alternative and most of the far east asian countries like china and korea are doing exactly what you suggested. Ours had done nothing yet. My friend bought a scanty looking bungalow in Abuja for several million Naira and believe me that is not affordable.

ba7man: Seeing people living under bridges used to be the norm. They used to say Lagos is 4 everybody and if u don't have an accomodation, u pick a spot under a bridge and make it your home. Now, you dare not try that else u'd get arrested. Its not compulsory you stay in Lagos and if you can't stand d heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Homelessness is always in most instances a product of the policies of the government, that would be the result of the direction the government of Lagos and other states are moving. Nations whom has swallowed the bitter Austerity measures and destructive advice of the World Money Lenders( IMF/World Bank).
It is a common phenomenon in those nations that have "MODERN ECONOMY" . Do you know that there are more than eight times more homeless people in the USA than nigeria ? About thrice in England than Nigeria ? And most western european nations as well . Read up on the net to see what caused that number of people to be homeless, information is everywhere online and opensource as well. The tactics might be different from USA to Greece but it is the same Con men. If you can't find articles i can provide you with a few.
When you read articles you hear about goverments providing affordable accomodation etc which one has Fashola(and the goverments before him) provided ? Even if it was for the middle class.
People don't survive on beautiful gardens and sidewalks and i don't support giving handouts rather they can support themselves if the facilities which are meant for their subsistence were provided.

ba7man: Another example, Back then on Lagos Island, shop lined roads had traders display wares in their shops, later they started displaying them in front of their shops, then they moved to the road sides, they later blocked the roads and turned them to markets no car can navigate. So they should be left there to support the poor??

You are confusing issues, if there is a market then the market should have its borders and the borders should be enforced. The purpose of Laws is to hold people back from abusing their Freedoms. What i am against is not setting the limits of peoples rights (like enforcing market borders) but eliminating Peoples Rights (like bulldozing the whole market and replacing it with mega housing estates,ponds,gardens etc that ordinary citizens cannot afford and not providing alternative space for decent people to carry on their businesses). Please don't confuse the two.

ba7man: Quick example. Quite a while ago, whenever i looked outside my office window located along Ikorodu rd, there was a thriving Chicken market right by the service lanes,crowded and smelling of Chicken sh*t. There was an open space across that Hausa muslims used as a prayer ground and thugs defeacated in that area too. People crossed the 10lane xpress randomly and yellow buses caused traffic along that stretch. Fast forward to today....The Chicken market has been cleared and there's a sidewalk that makes walking safer, the dirty open ground has been replaced with a garden, the pedestrian bridge close by has been refurbished so no need to dash across the express. B'cos you're supporting the poor doesn't mean you should tolerate madness. A sane looking environment uplifts the spirit.

I lived in china for several years and one of the town planning doctrines was the goverment always provides a piece of land that serves as a market for each community, each community is a walkable distance from the next. If the goverment has provided goverment owned space for community markets you will not see the chicken sellers there. I would like to enquire further as those traders were chased away were they provided alternative space ? Ofcourse Not,and what do you expect them to do with their chickens ? And where would the residents buy their chickens ? Probably out of town where the chicken traders ran to OR to the big superstores like Shoprite(no bargaining allowed) etc which is probably owned by those elites. Think very well each community always have a small market that services its residents,no one put it there but it starts up naturally cus that is what it should be and town planners(professional ones) put that into their calculation but just like a socialist i use to know once said " Elitist could not be reasonable, it ceases to exist once it does".
The thugs that deficate will always deficate whether it is an open space or a garden and that is a matter civility and discipline and not necessarily as a result of the presence of the traders.

Ghana unlike Nigeria can not be pushed around that easily. They succeeded in Re-denominating their currency, they built power stations that supports their growing economy irrespective of the severe covert pressure on them by Uk, the pushed back the Subsidy Removal Dictate by the IMF/World Bank cartel, they have secured much of their energy resources including oil and gas completly bypassing the west austerity conditions, they are building up there education sector unlike Nigerians which is collapsing.

Ghananian Army is for the protection of the Sovereign Nation of Ghana and not for fighting Imperialistic Wars at the order of their white masters.
Looking at how smart they are they sent engineers instead .

emiye: The last three lines of the last paragraph reveals that the writer is a Labour Party loyalist.

Many Nigerians want transformation from Point A to Point Z, but do not want to go through the sometimes painful process. The change will not come by a miracle, it includes a tortuous long journey to eldorado.

If you know you are poor, start with family planning and good education for the few wards you have, that way their chances of competing with the children of the rich is bright.

You people always start with family planning and all that nonsense where it has no relation whatsoever with topic if observed carefully.
Assuming i have two children which is moderate enough and i am a civil servant earning minimum wage how can pay for the university tuition of my two children to get that elusive education that you preach ? Is it even possible with one child ? What kind of education is it that the rich kids are getting ? Do you know how many graduates that nigeria produce each year and what happened to them with there education ?
The black man always tries to talk as if he is wiser,special and more intelligent , excluding himself from the masses while he dies slowly and having only the good feeling of lieing to himself as consolation. Think before you talk.

ba7man: If you don't adapt to progress or change, you'll get left behind. These so called "Poor" people don't mind expanding their slums and breeding like rats till Jesus comes back. Someone has to put them in situations that will force them to think. Lagos?? Used to be a real Mega Madness but the Governor's still in the process of changing all that. Its no longer "bizness as usual" to the people that throng into Lagos in the back of trailers to live under bridges,slums, ride Okadas, street trade etc. The earlier they get that, the better.

That which you call progress is actually backwardness in an economic viewpoint(since it decreases the value of the state) Backwardness in Social Science viewpoint(since it rolls back on all our struggle to build an egalitarian society where everyone shares responsibility and wealth is equally distributed and a society is a society for ALL) It is backwardness in Political viewpoint (since it destroys and goes contrary to all we hoped to achieve as a Democratic nation where the welfare of the Majority is upheld hoping to decrease class inequality,preferentialism and elitism) Backwardness in Moral viewpoint(since it does not prod us to consider the ideal rather wealth is worshipped and without wealth the CITIZEN is nothing so therefore wealth superced morals) Backwardness in every sense since the masses are BETTER OFF and more HAPPY without it therefore it can be said that such policies has decreased the peoples quality of Life and happiness.
The problem with the blackman is that of Modernism whereby anything with "modern" attached to it must be better than the former states, Modern Democracy(weak goverments without power whereby the state is actually ruled by private co-operations) Modern Global Economy( Hegemonic domination of international firms imposed on thirdworld nations) Modern Lifestyle( loose morals,sodomy, sexualization of everything imaginable, promotion of violence as a means of dispute settlement and wealth worshiping) and an endless list of other Modernities attached to any sphere of life which the world elite wants to redefine to suite there needs.
Progress in not when there are five SUVs more in your town and fifty people more stomachs hungry, Progress is fifty more people able to feed than yesterday.

hrmkz: Are u guys saying we should continue living in poverty.. Untarred roads,street hawking,markets on the roads e.t.c
Every nations crave for development, though Nigeria leaders have turned nation building to means of enriching their pockets.
Honest leaders is what we should crave for.

there are alternatives and development is procedural. The revenues of Lagos state is enough to develop Lagos state. Developmental process should be all encompassing meaning it should include all the citizens, any exercise that is just made for a small class of people or less than 50% percent of the populace is flawed and should be looked into.
What my post really tried to elucidate is the devilish intent of the LENDER , the Heartlessness of the small cabal which is the BORROWER and the impending misery of the Masses which makes up the DEBTOR.
Please answer this question: Do you see anything wrong in borrowing 10 billion Naira(@ 26% interest) to build a Mega Cultural center )

What these people never do is to investigate the history of nations that has passed through this evil process we are going through and see how they ended up.
The people should try to look at the people that borrow there governors these money, try to find out the conditions on which these debts were given, and from contemporary events extrapolate the intended results.
For those majority who never wants to bother themselves with research what is going on in lagos and other nigerian states is that the international banks is buying up nigeria or in other words turning nigerian into money making machines for their profit. The lagos governors would BORROW at unreasonable interest rates and finance these contracts which MUST be given to the companies(probably owned by the LENDER) dictated by the LENDERS at an overinflated price and the same LENDERS would dictate AUSTERITY MEASURES that must be put in place as a condition for borrowing(increasing tax,tuition fees,mass layoffs etc) . It should be clear by now that judging from the kind of projects that those money was used for,the cost which was ridiculous and the net income of the state the LENDER never intended for the money to be paid so what comes next is more AUSTERITY MEASURES and CONDITIONS , one of them being that those same infrastructures(take for example eko housing estate) must be privatised which means selling it away at giveaway price to those SAME LENDERS. What happened here ? They BORROWED them money to build, the money goes back to thier purse because the project was awarded to them, the state still OWES them, the bought the infrastructure at less than 10% the real value and now run it and take all the income it brings, the state still OWES them, the state pays huge amounts just to service their loans while it has lost most of the infrastructure that could have generated income . The State still OWES them.
The LENDERS bought those infrastructures for zero dollars and the state STILL OWES THEM. More and More privatisations and the state STILL OWES THEM. More increase in tax and fees and the state STILL OWES THEM. Things would become harder, many people would suffer,die,loose their homes, jobs,loved ones, even their sanity but the State STILL OWES THEM. THE WHOLE STATE IS BOUGHT AND THE STATE STILL OWES THEM.
If Nigerians don't act now they would never have the opportunity again. Who owes somebody owes him and in all courts both international and within you either pay what you owe or subject to the Lender.

They should attack the media instead. All these useless nigerian films are to blame for the increase in gay people.

Where do you guys see all there reduction of poverty ? POVERTY is increasing tenfolds in Nigeria and many people are dying of poverty. I guess many people here are either paid to lie and confuse the readers or they are just deceiving themselves.
What do we expect to hear from the Imperialistic world Bank/IMF ? That the middle class is vanishing and the Quality of Life is decreasing ? That many people can no longer afford basic amenities like water and electricity because the Austerity measures dictated by the same World Bank/IMF made these very expensive ? That the World Bank /IMF policy of privatization,mass layoffs, subsidy removal, weak goverment, health care reduction etc are driving nigerians into poverty in their millions, causing loss of jobs due to the closure of many small business and factories who can no longer keep up with the destructive cost of operations, that death rate of Nigerians have tripled within the last three years and 85% of the deaths are from ailments that are readily diagnosable but can not be afforded by growing numbers of our citizens, can't you see the rate people dieing all around you ? Would IMF who directly gave the directive to increase tuition fees all around the country tell you that as the tuition fees are increasing the quality of education is rapidly decreasing creating hundreds of thousands of dumb graduates whom are destinied to be psychological Slaves ready to be used to further strangle the nation and keep it in servitude and under-developed. Sometimes i just doubt if the posters in many of these threads are really sincere or just doing what they are paid to do. Do you know how many business/factories have closed down since the fuel subsidy removal and fuel price hike ? Both which were the directives of the World bank/ IMF . Ghana removed fuel subsidy while under pressure from the West but Patriotic and Nationalistic citizens maneuvered and brought it back while ignorant nigerian leaders just ignored the agonizing cries of the increasingly poor masses. The World Bank / IMF increasingly and successfuly prodded nigerian leaders to DEVALUE our currency making the masses POORER and imperialistic puppets vehemtly fought the Redenomination of the Naira brought up by Mr Soludo while Ghana successfuly carried on with theirs putting value into their currency and creating incentives and fiscal advantage to Ghananian businesses/imports/exports. If you guys are not poor would you be taking money to sell out your nation online ?
Whenever i look around me in Nigeria all i see is Poverty! POVERTY AND MORE POVERTY!

birdman: I dont believe that these dishes are popular just because of the taste. You cannot ignore the sadism involved in several of these dishes. If it was just about food, even the killing of chicken would be thread worthy. So its much more than just about food. _{My hunter has already ignored your attempt at an insult.}

It is always sad when any living being loses its life whether deliberately killed or through an accident. I remember those days whenever i am about to kill a chicken i use to imagine how the knife feels at its throat and ponder whether the chicken has feelings,if its sad or crying at the moment in its own birdie way. I wonder if it is trying to say something to me,maybe plead for its life or try to convince me of his innocence, you notice the way it blinks and blinks again and gulps for air as you grasp its neck, the glossy look in its eyes as it blinks once more. "Why me? You don't have to do this, am just a harmless bird and i could be your friend" in a resounding monotone i will keep hearing.

But you know what ? I still have to slit that throat and watch it bleed,i will hold the neck and watch it TILL it stops Bleeding then throw the cold lifeless body into the sink, thats how I did it, thats how YOU did yours if you have ever killed a chicken, thats how your mom,brother,sister and aunts has always done it. THEY WATCH IT DIE,BLEED TO DEATH! And thats how it gets done tomorrow. Is see no happiness in that either it is just a Sad Sad Sad scene and there is no difference between that and the monkey.

I promise not to insult your hunter anymore but who doesn't hate it when some people hops online and start playing Little Fake St Stephen ?

Ishilove: Nah, Its gross. The thought alone makes me feel like violently vomitting

Do you know how Sushi is made ? Yet all over europe and the States the babes won't give you a piece unless you take them to a sushi bar. You know in this Democratic world of ours WE the MAJORITY do have all the rights to declare your kind as queer or some sort of extremist. Hehe

birdman: My post is within the context of this thread, not just about monkey brains. But carry on, I'm sure brain tastes delicious

sure it does.

birdman: You are confusing issues here. For example, a hunter killing a deer with a high powered rifle would be the least barbaric according to your definition, since the deer would die instantly. However, if that hunter killed the animal for sport, then the hunter is more barbaric, regardless of the method he has chosen. Why? Because he inflicted needless pain and enjoyed it.

That IS the point. Inflicting pain for the purpose of enjoyment, not for food or any other reason. And I wonder about people who enjoy such things - what will thay do to humans when no one is looking, say in a war situation.

I sincerely believe that you are the one trying to confuse issues. We are talking about FOOD nothing else but FOOD! That is not sport and no body is enjoying scalping monkeys here since the whole purpose is to eat it and not to watch it die.
You hunter analogy is monumentally flawed in that no matter the kind of weapon that is being used the basic measurement of babary is the amount of pain the animal was put through before it lost consciousness. What if the hunter shot it in the loins or the abdomen puncturing the ribcage ? It would still die though after lots of pain and your Stup.i.d hunter has to watch.

Deep Sight: But they still eat the RAW still pulsing and frothing brain. You smash a head open and immediately start eating the brain inside it, WTF? ? ?

what is exactly wrong with that ?

Ishilove: Cutting the throat is more humane.

Humane Slaughter Act.
This is what it says:
(a) in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or ..............

They all promote stunning the animal to inhibit pain.

birdman: The torture of the animal while alive is part of the experience. This is what makes it barbaric. It is one think to kill for food. It is another thing to kill for fun, enjoying the animals suffering while eating eat. Kai! even the wildest of beasts does not do this.

FXKing2012 whom i believe has better knowledge of the basic mammal anatomy and works of the nervous system has put it plain enough for you to understand. If i am to repeat albeit in the form of a question i would like to ask you - knocking the monkey out and cutting its throat(letting it bleed out and spasm for tens of minutes,having it wriggle in your hands in pain as it tries to save himself from the painful agony knife injury,having blood fill its larynx and drowning in its own blood while struggling to gulp for air) which one is more babaric ? The former lasts just a fraction of a second and the beast looses its sense of pain and the later lasts for tens of minutes amids struggle between the killer and the monkey as the brain is still alive and registers fear,PAIN AND ANXIETY. Do you know why their are more blood spurts in more intelligent mammals like monkey than other beasts ? Because the heart rate increases due to fear and anxiety which the animal experiences.
Now who is more babaric ?

^^

Ishilove: It is savage, whether you cracked it or not.

Dang!!!

think it through again and keep in mind that isi ewu and nkwobi is made with goat and cow brains mixed with spice to form a paste. It is not so savage now is it ?

Deep Sight: Are you sick? Don't you get the point? Its not about who breaks the head: the disgusting and barbaric point is that it is broken and the brain eaten live.

there is no difference between cracking the skull when it is alive and cracking it when it is "dead" it all means killing it, whether you killed it by cracking the brain or by cutting its throat you still acomplished the same thing which is taking the life out of it. Unless you are against killing animals i don't see the point of your arguments. Please don't call me sick you pretentious dumb hypocrite.

I was NOT the one that cracked the skull. The waiter did that one then there was a tray of spice you can sprinkle on the brain, after being cracked the brain will be kinda vibrating or some kind of spasmodic movements, the others guys would urge you to eat up cus that is when it tastes better.

I have eaten the monkey brain in Hong kong in the late 90's. I think the poster tried to make it sound horrible. The monkey is usually held with some metal straps and only the head appears on the table and IT IS THE WAITER THAT BREAKS IT NOT THE GUEST. The brains turn foamy and the blood lines turn brown if you sprinkle vinegear on it. It is actually tasty especially when the brain is still warm. Drink it down with a bottle of Maltai white wine and you will experience heaven.

igbo2011: If those guys don't obey they die or get verthrown like Sankara, Lumuba, Gaddaffi or Gbagbo.

Have you ever thought that the people can make those leaders fear them more than they fear the Imperialist ? For us to do that we must be enlightened and be clear minded enough to throw away the western style of Democracy. I was reading a piece about how third world countries are always deceived with the word " Modern" and with that stupidly jump into their destruction, Modern Democracy -involving a very large porous goverments and polls election which is easily manipulated and penetrated by foreign agents, Modern Global Economy- involving mass privatisations ending the public sphere, reduction or total removal of subsidies and price inflation and speculative pricing that stresses to destroy the middle class resulting in a society comprising of just a few extremely rich and a massive extremely poor class. Modern Culture - involving eroding the local culture and morals and promoting greed,selfishness and consumerism resulting in a society that is not cohesive and can never come together to fight for there common interest, a society riddled with crime,rape,homosexuality and total lack of responsibility and purpose(corporate and government embezzelment) people that lacks the moral strength to reject a bribe.
Infact i like to call it Modern Domination Strategy and it works on our people against us.

Abrantie: Because America is the greatest nation of all time, even with all its flaws.

whats actually makes it great ?

red jasper: Majority of the major black enterprises ran in the US are controlled by boule individuals, daghettotymz.com has an exhaustive series going on them, just because something has black american stamped on it doesn't necessarily mean it's good for Africa, there are many of these "successful" blacks in america of the same ilk as their kindred who "govern" Africa.

thanks bro, Many failed to understand that when i said the same thing about Obama.

A very nice piece i must say but mobilising in Nigeria is not actually possible since : every situation is weighed on tribal benefits.
Every regime takes on tribal planes and attacking a regime is quickly analysed as an attack between the tribe of the government leader and the labour/youth/opposition leader or what policy makers call 'The 1966 handout'.
There are too many sellouts.
corruption is ingrained in the society and most especially the younger generation that their idea of goverment is where people make big money and the essence of any opposition is to "chase them away so we can take their seat and CHOP our own money".
Above all the average nigerian does not love his nation and does not care about patriotism,they infact see a selfless leader as a stupid leader.

I think people need to review Obasanjo's policies since he took over day by day, if they do all the ills and curses on nigeria can be traced and eliminated the Bakassi issue inclusive.