₦airaland Forum

huxley2:
BTW, how does one really know one is born-again? Could one live under the delusion that one is born-again, whereas God has not really received the individual?

huxley2:
Can you tell us the difference?

Pastor AIO:
The point is that Noetic and Huxley are cousins. Their great ancestor was a man named 2. Hence we have huxley 2 and Noetic 2.

This original Mr 2 committed a great and grievous sin which is what Noetic and Huxley are paying for today in their Nairaland confrontations.

That's the point.

i respect that creativity bro  

@Topic:

Huxley you know what i see you doing here, serpentry act (subtility), no hard feeling pls   , someone reading this will just accept your quotes plainly, with my experience of commenting your posts i havce learned to go back to the scriptures and read better

-Exodus preceded Ezekiel and as such, the verse of the former comes b4 the later, i will post the biblical ref. so everyone will know and read for themselves better

Exodus:

Exodus 20:1-6
And God spoke all these words:

2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

6 but showing love to a thousand [ generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
NIV

Ezekiel 18:1-3
18:1 The word of the LORD came to me:

2 "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: "'The fathers eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son — both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die. NIV

Huxley do you know see that God refered back to his sentence in Exodus and later in Ezekiel he gave reason for abolishing the old one?

pls do not contradict yourself and others here

May my God bless you, in Jesus name. Amen!  

Duroe:
It's very interesting. The fact is that if earring is not wrong for women then it is not wrong for men. If it is wrong for men then it is also wrong for women.
In the old testament, both males and females wore earrings, so most christian congregations that believe it's not wrong for their female members have no Biblical ground to condemn any male members that use earrings. Men using earrings is not an absolute biblical definition of effeminacy since both sexes used earrings among the children of Israel.
If it offends you as a believer for T D Jakes wearing earrings, then know that it is hypocrisy if you feel females can use earring.
The New testament stand is that earrings or Jewelry does not serve any Godly purpose in covering of unclothedness like clothes, so it's a mark of satisfyng the desires of the flesh. Earring is not a differentiating mark between the sexes but jsut a sign of worldliness. As it was in the time of Moses, Jacob and the Apostles, earrings and jewelry are used for external beautification, evidence of pride and show off among men and women and no purposes of earrings or jewelry have any relevance in the quest for a holy life. Before it becomes an idol in your life DROP IT.

Here is the thinkng - logical as it may sound - that has seen the "church" become the "Institutionalised church" two totally seperate, distinct and unrelated creations. The one born of God in Christ, and the other man-made.

The body of Christ does not need money to "run", or to "exist". Money is only for one thing to care for members of the body. Running and administration speaks of salaries, programs, expenses etc. Thats "IC" not "OC" - original church. Note your emphasis on things - admin and bills - as opposed to people

There is no seperate and distinct clergy and hence no need for salaries. Eldership is voluntary and plural to share the burden. Elders recieve assistance in the same way as any other - Share and share alike and none will have any need. Elders are supposed to have a professional life like all others, as is prescribed scripturally. Envy? MOGS??

- But no one has said there is any seperate clergy, but rather seperate calling. and even if i say there is a seperate clergy i dont think am wring in any way, because PETER was the head of the eraly church (jews) as PAUL was the head of the early church (gentiles) and TIMOTHY the first bishop (which means senior xtian cleric). and again no one has said any thing like salaries i dont know where you coiled that from, but in essense a sort of welfare can be given to them, read Pauls admonishion to Timothy in 1tim, you'll understand that a church system should contain just about the same structure as the levitical order of the OT but this time it should be of Christ Jesus as the HIGH PRIEST.

- MOGs and envy wasnt at you brother, pls read it again, at least you and I know that a lot of the attacks on our MOGs are simply born out of this reason. 

All Christians should be cared for by the mutually shared resources of all

But they are or aint they? i dont know where you are coming from 

In the body of Christ, are some ordained and some not? What is the spiritual implication of this ordination? What is the difference between the ordained and non-ordained? Does it limit or restrict Gods ability to work in someone? Does it in any way impact one's relationship or walk with God?

Where in the scripture is the word clergy/clergies?

where in the bible is your name and surname mentioned,but yet dont you look in there and find everything about yourself? na wa o    , i thought i gave you the definition of the word "CLERGY" pls brother read the definition better.pls this aint a question beloved brother. 

They work to survive like everyone else. With the possible exception of missionary work, there is no requirement for full-time ministry. It's a calling, not a vocation or career. That's what the "institutional template gets you.

- partially true partially not true, Paul noted that he worked because he wanted to, else said he ,that he would have survived from their willful contributions. read 1corinthinas again.

- Brother, my too i even marvel at where the later got that idea of full-time and part-time ministry, i dont know, well what can one say, the name itself even pops a laughter to me here    . i agree with you on that!

The church and it's structure/administration, is a part of christian life, an aspect of the experience, but not as some would presume the fullness of it. It's only meant to articulate how believers come together - when they do. Many mistakenly feel that all aspects of the Christian experience are articulated, regulated and lived out through "church". Hence much of what obtains today.

Chrisgbenobor:

Look around you, what is there not to be bothered about? Look how some peeps here turned out  
As for the koran, its just plain stupid    no beef

oyb:
do you ever wonder why Christians are so obssessed with Islam

no friend, the opposite is the case, occurences in NL religious section will tell you not to talk about the world 

At first we merely differed in opinion, now we are parting ways to a degree. Your trajectory of Pillar hence body, hence institution is not how I see things, or I see as supported by scripture.

1. You rightly call the church a body and thern - IMHO - designate it an institution. No sir!The Church of Christ is a "body" a "family" and can be likened or compared to such. To institutionalise it is to make it in the image of men and to fill it with human constructs. I won't even belabour the point.

What is an Institution?
-  in•sti•tu•tion [ìnsti tsh'n]
(plural in•sti•tu•tions)
noun
1. important organization: a large organization that is influential in the community, e.g. a college, hospital, or bank
2. established practice: an established law, custom, or practice
3. starting of something: the act of initiating or establishing something
4. long-established person or thing: somebody or something that has been well known and established in a place for a long time (informal)
Microsoft® Encarta® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

The church as a gathering of believers should have structure, as any uncoorinated gathering will be chaotic and potentially pointless

- Am glad you know that, now You can never remove the church from being an institute because a church simply requires people to run it, recall i have never said that the church is a building but an institute, now if funds and levies are not asked, how on earth do you want this people(institution) to run the administration and even pay bills?

-  Where should they raise moneys for outreaches especially for those one's who would want to do it right, and buy some of the hi-tech equipments you and I dance songs and worship from, and even these clergies where do you expect them to meet up with some family responsibilties lts be sincere and unbiased in this one (if it were you and i), the problem is that most xtians start becoming envious and greedy when you see this MOGs living clean.

- If they were on rags and old dresses, it is the same xtians and critics that will abuse them of looking too wretched, take deeper life ministries for example.  no ill feelings pls (apologies!)

Yes the church is a body of Christ, but then the word “body” is broader than want you might be thinking

Mans relationship with man (or God) does not demand a clergy/laity spilt or an intermediary priestly role

Who is a clergy?cler·gy [klúrjee]
(plural cler·gies)
noun
those ordained in church: the body of people ordained for religious service, especially in the Christian church (takes a singular or plural verb) 

Microsoft® Encarta® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some (to be) apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers ;
ASV

I never alluded to a do everything. God is sovereign. He can do whatever, using whoever, whenever. Forced man-made structures force the Spirit out of body life.

The Apostles.

Is Christian experience or a walk with God dependent on or diminished in the absence of a deaconate?

i asked the question so that you will know that the church has it as a responsibility to appoint a new office in the institution of the church so as to foster the work of Christ, remember Christ said occupy till i come, what will you say about that, hope you aint going to give me shallow answers like evangelism and individual living 

-And also to your last comment, i have this to say:

- In christianity, there are level of grace, hence levels of fxns, and this levels are what one can call spirituality, not everyone fxns on the same level, even bible says something like "let they that are strong, strengthen the weak"

- you can walk up and ask someone what the benefits of some certain spiritual practices are, and they will just laugh at you in their stupidity, if fasting for instance doesnt connote spiritual strength, then how come even christ said "some certain problems required fasting", how come one who is born again can castout demons and yet another fret at just a threat of the name? SPIRITUAL LEVEL MY BROTHER, and so is FIRE BAPTISM, TITHEING and other XTIAN PRACTISES

God bless you

JeromeK:
Hi Tonye-T,

Such a placid, self assured manner. It I didn't know better I'd swallow it hook, line and stinker ! Are you a Pastor? If only for your non-aggressive demeanour when posting, I'll proffer a different point of view.

Thanks Bro, but i aint a pastor but a student of the gospel

JeromeK:
- Abraham/Abram; Is not recoreded as ever paying tithes as a matter of course, only as a one-off tithe of the spoils of war.

TITHE

(tith) (ma`aser; dekate): The custom of giving a 10 th part of the products of the land and of the spoils of war to priests and kings
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Hebrews 7:2-5

2 and Abraham gave him a tenth[tithe] of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace."

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth[tithe] of the plunder!

5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth[tithe] from the people — that is, their brothers — even though their brothers are descended from Abraham.
NIV

JeromeK:
- There is no distinct and seperate Levitical order in Christianity. We are now all priests - with the Lord as High Priest.

Ephesians 4:11-12

11 And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.

12 His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ's body (the church),
AMP

JeromeK:
- The Clergy as it exists today is mostly a man-made construct - sadly echoing the OT Levitical priesthood. I put it to you sir that you guess wrong, even if you suppose correctly.

JeromeK:
- Care for the body is needs based. Simple. No special dispensation for elders per se, although they should be prefered for the labour of love they minister to the body.

JeromeK:
- Even if we accede your point that the Lord "never condemned tithing", can we therefore assume he established it as an ordinance?

JeromeK:
- Nobody has claimed "tithing" is wrong - or not acceptable in context. A freewill, self-determined choice to tithe by any Christian or group of believers is fine. You could say many are "against it being wrongly practised". The manipulative, guilt-inducing, scripture twisting exercise that obtains in many places today and is the driver for many tithers is to be decried, wouldn't you agree?

JeromeK:
Stay cool

tkb417:
are u implying he got broke for paying his taxes?

which of them?
10%, 30% or both?
lol

im sure hes not the only one paying tithe and taxes in America
The man is broke cos of his wayward/extravagant lifestyle!!!
simple

KunleOshob:
The truth is that God/christ requires NO tithes from us and it was smuggled into christianity as a result of twisted scripture. and that is why God would NEVER ascribe any special blessings to tithers becos God did not send them message. If you are doing well in life it is not beocs you are tithing there are billions of us all over the world who don't tithe and we are still being blessed.