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 Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 5:26pm On Sep 01, 2009 |
@ Ttalks, Chukwudi44, dwonder Let me explain somethings to you guys that i think you dont really understand because as it appears to me you guys do not seem to have any concrete explanation to prove that the practise was abolished, if you do then show me where it was stated in the scripturesof the NT that "titheing is no longer to be practised"and i mean "titheing" as a word or term as being abolished, you seem to be bringing your judgement of tithe based on a silly fact that tithe emanated from the LAW, i have taken my time to show you guys that this thing existed b4 the origin of the law,"JUST BECOS AN ANCIENT PRACTISE WHOSE ORIGIN DATED BEFORE THE LAW WAS LATER INTRODUCED INTO THE LAW DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD BE ABOLISHED WITH THE LAW", i have always said it "it never started with the law so why should it be abolished?" this is the simple reason why i say titheing is not a law. Each time we bring points here you guys call it "scripture twisting", isnt that funny? @KunleOshod, I use to take you as respectful, but I guess i was wrong with the way I have really followed your replies althru’ and surprised how you almost started worshipping yourself from your intro-post recently, hmmm not surprised anyway, afterall “a man’s word is just a reflection of his person”. I read someone still asking what I meant by standards after much explanation, now let me try my best as the spirit of God gives utterance. 1. If you take the time to read thru’ the bible you’ll see that God’s relationship with man followed a pattern and this pattern has standards that both parties must follow for a true relationship What were this patterns?: 1. There must be a Priest who mediates btw God and Man (read.Heb.7:17-20)Mechisedek was the first to assume this office of which Job did the same (Job.1:5), thereafter Abraham (Gen.18:20-33),Abraham’s lineage and then to Jacob’s and later to Moses and the trail followed until Jesus’s time 2. Now carefully take the time to study what each of this priest/princes did, One was that they gave offerings as a means of worship/relationship and they offered sacrifices which were meant to make atonement for sins, two they taught the people how to relate with God and Man, which if you agree with me a little account of their acts was given of some of these few men who assumed the office of the priest. 3. Now One practice the bible noted that some of these princes/priests did was the act of paying tithe, take for example Melchisedek received tithe, Abraham gave tithe, Jacob promised tithe, Nehemiah ordered tithe, Moses instituted Tithe, Jesus rebuked hypocrites of wrong titheing but approved it in his comment “the later you are suppose to keep not despising the former(tithe)- Matt.23:23” 4. Now the question is this? What is the relevance of titheing since I said it remains a practice that should still be relevant in the scriptures one may ask, Titheing is as significant as Offering is but the chasm is that the later was given freely while the former has followed an standard (a specific amount), now that’s what I meant by standard. Now Melshicedek received tithe, and Bible said Jesus was made a priest after the order of melchisedek, have you really ask yourself this, that if Jesus Christ was a priest after Melchisedek and melchisedek received tithe, then what was expected of Jesus Christ Malkiy-TsedeqThis order could be compared as Aaron (as melchisedek) and the levites (as Christ)-Heb.7:16, Aaron received it under the law; likewise the levites took it from the people and gave it to the High priest whom Aaron fell into. Today when we give tithe, the Men of God (levites after the order of Christ) receives it with prayers and presents it to Jesus Christ (Priest after the order of melchisedek who received tithe) Read Hebrews.6, 7,8 again Now the problem here with folks is that you are simply looking for an express passage in the NT that says Chuwkudi44, ttalks, KunleOshod please pay tithe, isn’t that funny. Even of the Life of Jesus, the bible made it clear that no one can put His(christ’s) life all in paper as not even the whole world can contain the books. So which tells you and me that the bible is only a guideline of God’s pattern for living and not the totally of His instruction. God bless ya’ll and pls lets try not to act as if we know too much as bible says we were given knowledge by the grace of God and we all only know in fragments of the knowledge that is in Christ Jesus (1COR.13:9) |
| Crime › Re: How Winners Chapel Pastor Raped Me —housewife by Tonyet1(m): 3:12pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
On a second thought,i really think the woman was not raped,because she was then she would have screamed or even do a serious harm to the pastor like hitting his skull as is the case of most near-raped victims i have heard them share testimonies.or atleast even report to her husband But in her case she hid it and prefered talking to a friend to help her get cured. hmmm May God help us all, i also believe MOGs should be called and not appointed 1 Like |
| European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Torres Is A Girl! by Tonyet1(m): 2:03pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
na wa o, wats is really happening na, all this news are enough to make one start watching soccer with ills, pls God this is not true, its someone just tell me its a rumour |
| Crime › Re: How Winners Chapel Pastor Raped Me —housewife by Tonyet1(m): 12:34pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Even though the pastor is/maybe guilty of this act, but then lets all pause and ask the question Jesus told the accusers of the woman caught in the act of adultery : WHOM AMONG YOU IS NOT GUILTY, LET HIM THROW THE FIRST STONE What we always fail to realise is that this Men of God are not perfect, most often they are even weaker and vulnerable to spiritual attacks, and as such commit these acts. Afterall thereaint no one here that is not guilty of a fault, why didnt we come here and expose our faults. Becos they are the men in the elms of affairs each time they messup we blow it up while we ourselves are worse. I often ask myself this question that if Peter who was among the living witness to God's son in the flesh-Jesus could deny Jesus not once but three conscious times then what befalls of us who only came and heard of Jesus and believed. NO ONE IS PERFECT! we are still humans |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Divorce In D Bible by Tonyet1(m): 4:59pm On Aug 25, 2009 |
@Jesoul, you'were right on that.true talk Woow Jesoul i was about asking you how you do that underline stuff, but pooooh i tried some html tricks and got it, how u see am [marquee]Jesoul[/marquee]   |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 1:36pm On Aug 25, 2009 |
@Chukwudi44, The problem here is that you dont read the other's post because if you do then all the questions u are asking u'd have seen dem even right from the inception of the thread, i have taken my time to explain standards for you, i have taken my time to explain why they are made money,i have taken the time to explain why it could be weekly, daily, monthly, yearly or centurily(for all we care), i have taken the time to explain what laws are from standards and principles, and also dont tell me u did not read the post i sent on saturday, it explained it all, and you're still coming up here and asking the same questions, aint that strange? maybe u r still finding it hard to digest the truth, hmm i could give you water u know !refer back to the post dated saturday and read b4 u post. thank u |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Right To Criticise Men Of God by Tonyet1(m): 12:09pm On Aug 25, 2009 |
Lopezdee1:hmm, maybe our moderators are beginning to disguise themselves, else who could give u the right to delete another's |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Did Micheal Jackson Die A Muslim by Tonyet1(m): 9:56am On Aug 25, 2009 |
read he died a xtian hmm , which it was true sha |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:38am On Aug 25, 2009 |
This is what i have been sounding repeatedly all thru' this thread: Matt.23:23 - what is the "other" that should not be left undone? Answer: TITHE dont you guys see it for yourselves? Titheing remains much relevant today in our christian faith, It is used to edify the body of Christ @Jesoul, I really took my time to explain certain things to you on saturday , but my mail was attacked with a spam that seun removed, it appears to me that you really dont understand or rather mistake LIBERALITY for LIBERTY, as your post from Rom.14 appears my affirmative, Jesoul go back and read that passage better , you are getting yourself and everyother person who cares to, confused! Becos you give money to your little neighbor, or whomsoever you willeth, doesnt mean you have obeyed what was instructed you, titheing is an instruction not a suggestion. "OBEDIENCE IS BETTER THAN SACRIFICE". How i wish i could get that post i tried posting because i really used all passion in me to explain it, well i wish you go back to that scriptures and see that what it was saying was plainly about food and season (which are doctrines, and we know that doctrines was accepted in 2tim.3:16) while titheing remains a spiritual standard(titheing is not a doctrine and thus it not an option for some to give while others refrain, we are to give our tithes, Jesus said practice faithfulness, justice and righteousness and also dont leave titheing undone). The problem is that alot of us use words and terms without knowing their original significance: - Doctrines are not to be mistaken for standards, How? Faithfulness is a standard, Love is a standard, Holiness is a standard, Food is a doctrine, dressing is a doctrine, This the reason why some members of deeper life church for example will go to heaven and hell also, because clothing does not affect your relationship with God, it only does with man, A vegetarian who believes in Jesus christ can go to heaven while he can still go to hell if he lives in sin. One who celebrates xmas or easter can still go to heaven or hell. But if you dont practice faithfulness, love, holiness and other standards you will go to hell, believe it or not! do you understand we should understand the significance of all passages in the bible and not mistake one for the other. God bless you! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 3:45pm On Aug 24, 2009 |
@Chukwudi44, i answered questions you asked on saturday but my post was attacked with a spam which seun sorted out for me this morning, so you could read my post. thanks |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 2:58pm On Aug 22, 2009 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 1:18pm On Aug 22, 2009 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 12:58pm On Aug 22, 2009 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 12:44pm On Aug 22, 2009 |
@OLAADEGBU, My brother you made a point there, but beleive me humans are refusing to pay just a tenth how much then can wwe get them to give a whole aas the widow did, hmmmm na die dem go die finish b dat o! Thanks for the contributions i learnt too! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 12:39pm On Aug 22, 2009 |
@ Chukwudi44, for the little time i have had to read ur comments on religion section, believe me am turned-off at the level of your knowledge, what you actually do is argue rather than oppose cleverly or discuss as it should be. I say it here time and time again that we should approach the scriptures with unbaised mindset and then can we both see the truth for ourselves. But it appears to me you just pick logics and intellect (sensual wisdom) and you pour it out maybe to win some battles i dont know like your mentor KunleOshod praised you for. However i'll commend you for how you replied |Gentle me| for his harsh post at you.though you had the opportunity to insult him back but then you introduced a calm attribute for the 1st time and i hail you for that.God bless you my friend and brother! Back to the topic: I read your writing to Oladegbu that the issue of tenthing in titheing was borrowed from the Mosaic law.do you mean to tell me Abraham who tenthed (Gen.14:20)and Jacob who tenthed (Gen.28:22) all did so because Moses told them to?, didnt they exist b4 the Mosaic law was given?. The question nobody has been able to answer me here is this: "If Titheing began with the Law, why then did Abraham and Jacob both practised it even b4 the Mosaic law was given?" Do you mean to tell me that Moses appeared to them and told them to? na wa o! we both know that this men both existed b4 the Law, so why then did they tithe. What we guys do here is to read passages in the bible and pick it anonymously without having an indepth knowledge of how the term or phrase or word or vocabulary originated. I have sincerely explained it here that Titheing(tenthing) was never a law, it was a practise that began b4 the law and was only borrowed by the mosaic dispensation to explain a point. The Law is a different thing altogether from standards(tenthing for example). Standards are trails that have always existed, while Law is a document that binds how this standards should be practised.Do you understand?Make research for yourself.ok! You also said there wasnt any place that introduced money as a model for titheing, Yes you're right, but then you are very wrong because if you understand the full significance of tenthing beleive me you'd rather stick to just giving money. How i mean:, In Gen.14:20 - it said "and abram gave him a [size=13pt]tenth of ALL[/size]after he(abram) had returned with spoils from a great battle, now i ask , doesnt something ring a bell in your brain that amongst the spoils were GOLD, SILVER,DIAMONDS, GARMENTS, FINEWOODS and lots more, Chukwudi44 do you mean to tell me that you dont know that those things were the money or currency Men used back then? And again, Jacob in Gen.28:22 - Jacob said, if God would give him all that he asked for, then he would give back a [size=13pt]TENTH OF ALL[/size], hello? so becos Moses commanded the israelites in his era to give produce as tenths, do you mean to tell me that others never gave beyond that? Now again let me explain a little about why it was all about crops and farm produces in The mosaic era as it appears you know little or nothing about what you're arguing about, When the Children of Israel came out of Egypt, God instructed Moses that the Israelites should not mingle themselves with any other nation as they belonged to Him(God) and Him alone lest they be defiled. Now the consequence of that instruction meant that no trading should be done by them with other nations (heathens) and as such, no essence for money, because he was to give them a portion each for every tribe of israel from the land of canaan. He knew there was no means of getting money as no trade-by-barter would exist, hence the flocks and produce would be the only means to still get them to maintain the ancestral but divine standard of tithing. this issue could create another topic if i go on and on.I wish you'll understand. Now to the other question you asked of why titheing should be daily, weekly, monthly?, my answer to you is this, i cant find any portion of the scriptures that said i should give daily, weekly, monthly, what i find is that i should give mine from my INCREASE, now i ask my self, how often do i get increase of my seed(income) the answer is MONTHLY of course, so then i tithe monthly, now another person could decide to gather up all their increase and offer at a stipulated date.Why should it be anyone's bizness if they do so, afterall "whatever we do, we do unto God and not unto man" (scriptures says) I'll stop here for you now |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 1:35pm On Aug 19, 2009 |
Mr. Chukwudi44, from the beginning i have never said titheing should be in monetary terms, i am ONLY and FIRMLY on the stands that titheing remains a practice of the new testament, as the topic of the thread suggest.because since it existed before the advent of the law it meant that titheing was a standard for covenant and not a LAW as you and other folks go about misinforming peeps here. If you wish to pay your tithe in clothes why not, if you wish to give your tithe in agricultural produce why not, but as for me,Titheing was never a LAW but a STANDARD included in the LAW. period! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Ok To Pay My Tithes To Different Churches? by Tonyet1(m): 1:28pm On Aug 19, 2009 |
@chukwudi44, who says tithe is part of the jewish law, it was a standard/concept/priniciple/custom that existed b4 the advent of the law(jewish law) and was only included into the mosaic law showing how it ought to be administered if they must be blessed |
| Christianity Etc › Jesoul, Titheing Is Not A Choice But A Command by Tonyet1(op): 10:29am On Aug 19, 2009 |
Your quote: from the Topic: "is it ok to pay my tithe to different churches @Poster,i simply put it to you, that you were wrong in saying that titheing was a choice. i wont quote any scriptures here until you visit this thread, because i even know the portion of the bible you are trying to quote in making that heretic comment. Titheing is a standard, titheing is covenant, titheing is a priniciple, titheing was not part of the law, but was also practised in the law |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Ok To Pay My Tithes To Different Churches? by Tonyet1(m): 10:19am On Aug 19, 2009 |
Oh my God, so Chukwudi your knowledge of God(titheing to be more precised) is simply based on what KunleOshod and co. says about it,Oh! what a pity. Now i know why you dont even have proof to any biblical issues, but rather tend to mudsling each time a truth is told to you, and you idea of exhuming saints of the catholic church even makes your posts all the more pathetic Sorry o! its a pity |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is That Sin That You Just Cannot Overcome?share It And B Counselled by Tonyet1(m): 10:14am On Aug 19, 2009 |
mInE iS dAt I cAn'T sEeM tO hOLd My MoUtH fRoM sAyInG tHe tRuTh EaCh TiMe I c FoLkS tRyInG tO tELL a LiE : pls i need counselling too |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 10:05am On Aug 19, 2009 |
[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=307798.msg4374703#msg4374703 date=1250608114]I mean this as nicely as it is possible to mean such a thing, but you really are terribly ignorant. Jewish laws and customs have nothing to do with gentiles and is not part of our inheritance. The very verses you flourish has been used to show you tithing is irrelevant to us, is part of Jewish law and has been cancelled by christ. Romans, I think, has much to say about that.[/quote]There aint nothing as nice as saying someone is terribl~, well that said, i wish to see you as the more ignorant, because what you guys have been doing all the while is to throw abuses and insults when you're supposed to simply show or give proof from the same bible you and I read all the time From my judgement, you guys are too sensitive and tend to judge from logical point of view and not the spiritual point of view, I SHOWED AND EXPLAINED HERE TO YOU WHAT LAWS ARE AND WHAT CUSTOMS ARE AND YET YOU ARGUE ALL THE MORE, if you feel my definition of Law was wrong, i simply say, why dont you show me a better definition. Period ! and not sling muds on the other. "truth dey bitter" maybe i guess dis saying is very correct and much applicable here, i show the truth and you guys in turn bring the insults.   You made mention of Titheing as Jewish laws, what more ignorance can someone show if not this, DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT ABRAHAM WAS A JEW WHEN HE TITHED, DO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME JACOB WAS A JEW WHEN THEY BOTH TITHED? since we both know know they werent then how come they tithed before the Mosaic Law, In Hebrew, the passage you quoted, you guys dont seem to understand the portion even better, what that side explained had to do with the significance of Titheing as a COVENANT, which i have been trying to proof here though i did somewhere in another thread. As for you my friend Jagoon, you seem to be making me laff all the more each time i read thru all your posts on NL (religion to be more precised), *hmmm, milk sucking Xtians and Bone eating xtians , well i aint talking |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Scientific Proof For Existence Of God by Tonyet1(m): 11:45am On Aug 18, 2009 |
CHUKWUDI44, hmm you never seize to amaze, how could a dead body exhumed for year undefiled prove of the existence of God, God remains a Spirit and approach to his proof remains spiritual as they that must worship him must do so in spirit and in truth. bro na wa for you o! chuwkudi44 my friend |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 11:38am On Aug 18, 2009 |
@ Chukwudi, Jagoon and Mad_max, Good day Friends, i saw your comments and felt i should explain what you guys claim you know but prolly dont, this is prolly what i keep saying here that the scriptures will only present itself to you the way you approach it, if biased , it will mean nothing, if prudent it will profit all things. I promise not to argue here as its not of me to do so, but will rather give a clear breakdown of this thing called TITHE and its significance as the spirit of God gives me utterance. What is Tithe? TITHE Tenths of produce, property, or spoils, dedicated to sacred use. (from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1998, 2003 by Biblesoft) Titheing before the advent/origin of the children of Israel was a CUSTOM, it was needful that for every spoil or profit anyone made, he should set apart some quota for the king, or their deity and this they did as a form of WORSHIP and this things were both practised and ritually kept by heathens. well that alone is a topic of its own. The Origin of Tithe: Alot of people today clearly believed that the titheing began with the exodus of the israelites from the land of egypt, the answer remains no as the concept and practise began way back Abraham and even Jacob. I will spare nothing to say that titheing was and has always remained a CUSTOM. When Abram was blessed by the High Priest Melchizedek, He gave him one tenth of everything he gained from defeating Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him. "And Abraham gave him one tenth of everything." [Gen. 14:20], now it was no mistake that it was only Abraham's and Jacob's adherence that got documented and later seen from the scriptures before the introduction of the law, that still never meant that it was never practised by other heathens. Later we saw Jacob in Gen.28:22 saying "And this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God's house; and of all that you give me I will surely give one tenth to you." [Gen. 28:22] Titheing in The Law: This is where we all get it wrong today, folks think that titheing is/was a Law, but if it was , then how come Abraham (the patriach) paid, how come the real Israel himself (Jacob) paid. If one read thru' leviticus and more, you'll clearly find that Titheing was a task, it was an obligation, it was a requirement, it was a standard and never a Law. Now i heard someone ask what is a LAW? A Law is a set of decree/ruling/or any piece of legistlation binding how concepts/principles/standards should be followed/administered/kept to a people.(you can prefarably post a better definition should you find one). Now if you look carefully at this definition you'll find that for a law to be called a law, some things must be in place which are the concepts and standards or traditions as others may call it. Laws in otherswords validate principles. Make no mistakes LAWS ARE NOT PRINCIPLES OR CONCEPTS OR TRADITIONS BUT THEY RATHER VALIDATE AND INERT THE LATER.do you get it? Now my standings are this: - If titheing was a LAW or Law of Moses as some say it is, then how come the Patriachs practised it, do you mean to say that moses gave the law before Abraham was born or was Jacob in the days when Moses gave the Law. - To buttress more further this truth, they was never a place in the mosaic law that stated Titheing as a law, rather we saw clearly statements like "NOW THIS IS THE LAW OF BURNT OFFERING ( Lev.6:9) , NOW THIS IS THE LAW OF THE CEREAL OFFERING, LAW OF THE SIN OFFERING, LAW OF THE GUILT, LAW OF PEACE OFFERING, LAW OF THE BEAST AND BIRD, LAW OF LEPROUS DISEASE, LAW OF FLUID DISCHARGE AND so on, there was never such a thing as THE LAW OF TITHEING. so why do many still say that titheing/tithe was a LAW. the first appearance of the word "tithe" in the mosaic administration was in lev.27:30 and it said "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord." Now it will not require you any bachelor's degree to understand that "the lord taught them how to administer the tithe and who owned it" and further reading of tithe gave thus also. Titheing here simply shows that it belongs to God and no body else. - Thirdly if we still claim that it was abolished, then offerings should as well be abolished, because they were all included in the Mosaic law, why would "one law" be abolished while they other valid.answer yourself this. This alone goes to show that neither of them was a law but precepts that were included in the law of moses and thus was not abolished. WAS THE LAW ABOLISHED? How many of us have really taken the time to ask ourselves if any portion of the scriptures gave that the Law was abolished, to my understanding it rather said in Matt.5:17 - "Think not that i came to DESTROY the LAW . . .,i am not come to destroy but to fulfil" So where does this heretic phrase of "abolished" or "destroy" came about. To my understanding, Christ fulfilled the law in that he became all the requirements that the law for its perfection, e.g. were things like the blood, the lamp, the sacrifice, the stigma, the judgements. Ask yourself this, if christ fulfilled all concepts (not law) then why do we still give offerings, wouldnt it have been hypocritical or rather conflicting, i ask you? It is required of xtians that we clearly have the true knowledge of things as against the public views and approaches. DID JESUS TALK ABOUT TITHEING? The answer is yes, but then many folks say that it was spoken to rebuke hypocrites as such it does not affect us, with this i say then, who is more hypocritical, the rebuked or the self-righteous, and i ask them questions like, ok what happened to instances when Jesus rebuked Peter, James and John, are we also to say that since it was not to us, then we dont fall-a-fault there. whether it was said to the pharisees or to the disciples, it made no difference,as neither is justified without the holy spirit. In Jesus' comment and rebuke to them, he plainly and clearly stated in Matt 23:23-24 23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. [size=14pt]You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former[/size]NIV. Did Christ say anything like "you should have practiced the latter without practising the former? i ask you. or do you mean to say that becos he never said it to his disciples so it doesnt fall on us? ridiculous i say! if thats the argument, then read down that passage and you'll find in vs.25-26 25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean NIV so because he never mentioned disciples there, means that warning doesnt wasnt to us,hmmm i see. so what applies to me are the ones he said to the disciples directly, what a twist of scriptures.! To me, if Christ 'abolished' it like you guys think, then he would have clearly told everyone to saty out of it and prolly put a hypocritical tag on it. but then the opposite was the case. WHY IS TITHE GIVEN AS MONEY? I personally do not tell believers to give in monetary grounds, its simply said, if you can give crops produce why not afterall in some orthodox gatherings they still give their increase of food produce and they all celebrate, but lets be sincere and unbiased here, whom among us do receive wages in these supposed agricultural produce. give your tithe in money as much as you do in offerings,simple!God cannot be deceived! WHY DO WE GIVE MONTHLY? Folks when do the large populace of beleivers receive the wages for their labour, is it not monthly, but then i dont find any church that says we should give monthly, if you receive yours quarterly or daily or weekly or yearly then its up to you. Finally for sake of time, i'll answer the question you guys asked in Heb.7:5, (5) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of AbrahamThis passage has clearly vindicated my point, how? remember i said it is a concept/standard, now the bible said "the levites received tithes according to how the Law commanded them to", simple. it never said " the levites received tithes as it was a law" hello do you understand? if not then i think a good grammarian should come in here and explain better i'll stop here for now while i attend to my official duties. God bless you my friends! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is It Ok To Pay My Tithes To Different Churches? by Tonyet1(m): 9:30am On Aug 18, 2009 |
deor03:That was a nice contribution you made |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 10:28am On Aug 17, 2009 |
@Bobbyaf, Thank you bro for your explanation. i apreciated that! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 10:15am On Aug 17, 2009 |
@ Jagoon, Chukwudi44, Mad_max, amonimi, KunleOshod and co. No one knows how glad i feel to get more audience to this issue, this are what makes christianity and life's issues very interesting and thrilling I will take you guys one for the other Back to the Topic: chukwudi44:Chukwudi, I think you are really deviating from the main topic, no one at any time has said titheing should be made monthly or should be made monetarily, we are stating that TITHEING as a practice remains a standard in the new testament regardless of if its made with agric produce or money, that aint the issue here, besides, is there anyone who receives his/her wages in agricultural produce? if not money, so reaffirm your stands again. KunleOshob:KunleOshod, my friend and brother, no one is putting up a fight talk less of a strong one NL hasnt become a battle ground, its a forum to discuss and not to fight ok?, anyways nice to see you come around, your comment to Chukwudi44 as i understand,is still on the ground that titheing is bad simply not because Jesus never commanded but because some charlatans are abusing it, which draws us back to the fact i have been making here all the while that "just because something is over-exploited and abused hasnt mean it was bad from its original intention. May God bless your business and hope you come back real soon.  [quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=307798.msg4358504#msg4358504 date=1250373147]@chuckwudi44 You make tons of sense. But it's hard for people to let go of deeply-held beliefs, however false. Imagine tithing for years and believing the love and grace of God is conditioned on that,and then learning tithing is irrelevant and at no time required for Christians; in most cases, the best-case scenario is, they acknowledge tithing is unChristian, but continue the practice anyway,because they don't want to 'risk' finacial failure. Never mind that some tithe for years with no discernible difference in their finances, and some tithe and have more because they work hard for it, but still ascribe their financial success to tithing. Some of the richest people on earth aren't Christians and don't tithe, and they get wealthier and wealthier. We are called to give to the poor, and to help orphans and widows and others in need of our help. We are not caled to tithe and our finacial prosperity doesn't rest on it. But everyone's entitled to their beliefs and if they want to tithe even when they realise they don't have to, it's their money and their affair. Non-Jews, Christians or no, were never under the law in the first place. The OT laws are for Jews and is part of their cultural and religious heritage, not to mention one of the foundations of a religion different from Christianity: Judaism. Christ rescued JEWS from the law,because it was to Jews that the laws were given. We're 'gentiles' , partakers of the salvation of Christ. Jewish laws have absolutely nothing to do with us. What Christ preached, and all he stood for, are what is ours. Unless you're a Jew, the OT has very little to do with you, and tithing nothing at all. That's the problem with importing the culture that sprung a religion along with the religion instead of separating the two.[/quote]Hi sister, From your comment here, one could just see that you didnt really take your time to go thru' the topic from the very start, all you said here is what Chuwkudi44 has said too, and i have addressed that, 1. Titheing was never a LAW in the first place, i showed scriptures that clearly stated other offerings and practises as laws and there was never a place that showed TITHE as a LAW, rather an oridinance, refer to previous comments for clerifications. And since it was an ordinance it meant that its place in the LAW of Moses was simply to show how it ought to be administered. GET THIS: "Laws are decrees that show/provide how standards are to be administered" and this is where titheing falls in. Titheing is a standard and that was why Abraham practised it b4 the advent of Moses' Law, because recall that Bible said he paid tithe but did not tell us he gave it to widows and such, the inclusion of widows and so on, where just how tithing should be administered in the nation of Israel. Pls show me where it was stated that titheing was a LAW so tell me why it should be abolished with the Law of Moses, Afterall the introduction of Jesus christ also gave us a LAW but this time, the LAW of Christ. I am still saying you guys should go back to the scriptures (OT) and show me where it was stated as a Law, show me a portion that says anything as close to "and the lord gave them a law of titheing, . ," maybe i am not reading the same scriptures as you guys. we had the LAW OF BURNT OFFERING, THE LAW OF . . .OFFERING, THE LAW OF FLUID DISCHARGE and so on and so forth, to this day i still try to fing where it was stated THE LAW OF TITHEING.pls lets always try to read the scriptures ourselves and not follow what others say about biblical issues. God bless you my Sister. Jagoon:this is one thing i really detest here in NL, i hate it when folks say awful things about the other simply because the later is trying to express his/her views, lets be matured here pls. If you have a view to your opinion why dont you start thus and stop calling names here. God bless you! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 4:26pm On Aug 14, 2009 |
@ Gentle me, isnt it so kind to see a someone who's taken the time to read and understand for himself the basis for titheing in the NT, thanks Bro, am glad someone understands @Chukwudi44, you seem to be repeating what you've already asked here and received answers to, i'll no more explain things but allow you go back and read and search the scriptures i provided you maybe then we could havce a better platform whats more important is a soul who's now come to understand titheing better God bless you |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Problem With Atheists by Tonyet1(m): 4:00pm On Aug 14, 2009 |
@Poster , i've read thru' your post and it seems very impressive, but you tend to trail a path one may simple see as wasteful, how do i mean: 1. If you understand how psychology works you will come to know that there are several stages to reprobacy which to me is where all athiest fall within Stage 1: A man is introduced to a new thing and he accepts it, but may be involved in his new acceptancy or not involved, this is where BELEIVERS Aand UNBELIEVERS fall Stage 2: This man's new views (some call it beliefs) are allowed to hover thru' his mind for sometime and to interfere with his mind origins (called "BACKGROUNDS"  and way of life and perhaps settle fully or partially, this new beliefs may be GOOD or BADStage 3: Now because a man's mind is designed with cells that collide or probably glide, it will reflect on the way he accepts issues, conflictions become the other of the day in this man's mind, one side accepts while the other side rejects, this is the ORIGIN or call it the STAGE of ARGUMENTS or REBELLION for some I'll stop at stage 3, there are stages of OBSESSION, POSSESSION, and even PHYSICAL ATTACK, but looking at this illustration, you'll come to understand that there aint nothing you and i can say to these athiest to convince them of what you and I believe in, the best you should prolly do is to stick to your belief and defend it, lest you find yourself in self-conflict. and not to try expantiating on our existence of the TRUE ONE AND ONLY GOD whose way to HIS PRESENCE remains thru' JESUS CHRIST by so doing you make flaws and compromise just to butress a point. ATHIESTS are best described REPROBATES believe me! no hard feelings pls |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:17am On Aug 14, 2009 |
@Chukwudi and Jagoon, If you are very sincere with yourself and unbiased in issues of the scriptures, kindly show to me where it was stated in the OT of titheing being a LAW plainly. If you can , then believe me i'll succomb Mind you, i aint here to win the case of titheing but to simply show you guys the truth that TITHEING is simply a STANDARD and not a LAW, hence was not abolished but should be transferred from one LAW dispensation unto another, like i showed you palinly from the scriptures Titheing remains a standard and not a LAW OF MOSES, that was why even Abraham practised it even b4 the origin of MOSES' Law Pride and biase-mindset will profit us nothing but humility and simple obedience to the word of God, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS ABUSED AND OVER EXPLOITED SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE IT A BAD THING Thank you and God bless! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 5:35pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
Jagoon:Answer to your no.1 question is, In the Kingdom issues, there are some issues which are of more priority than the others, like Jesus stated clearly in Matt.23:23, now when you go out to win souls to Christ do you preach to them about offerings, fasting and/or about administrative issues of the church? i ask you. But rather you tell them about the salvation Christ came to give man, you tell them about the origin of Sin and what its consequences meant for man until Christ came to redeem us, you tell them of man's eternal existence and so on and so forth. Now that is the weightier part of the Law of Christ (called Grace) without Justice, faithfulness and righteousness and such no one can get his /her soul redeem. But when you give your life to christ, you now belong to a family (called the "Church" and where Christ is the head and God the Head of Christ, in this new family its expected that Standards, ordinaces and precepts must be followed in other for things to be in orderliness and decency like Paul mentioned. you dont just go into the church and start misbehaving and misleading hence things are kept for us to follow. Now that is where things like Offerings, Titheings,Giving, Fellowshipping, Prayers/prophesying, fasting and more comes in. All these things are meant to edifiy the church and bring us into oneness in communion.If you read Paul's account to churches, you'll come to see that Churches were mostly practised in Homes major reasons was the persecution she received back then, later began in halls of houses, cathedrals and towers. well all that are story for anther day. so you see because the Apostles never mentioned it doesnt mean it was abolished, it was simply not a much issue to the soul as the matters of righteouness, godliness and the likes. From the passage you quoted from Heb.7:5-18 i cant seem to find any verse not even a line relating to the abolishment of tithe, but simply the transference of ordinances by reason of the new priesthood change. i explained it here better , just click HERE |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 4:18pm On Aug 13, 2009 |
Jagoon:Thank you so much, this is exactly what i was expecting to hear here, Wolves in sheep clothing have infilterated this forum and marred the minds of innocent xtians. and make them too blind to see just a simple truth that titheing is still relevant and that it remains a STANDARD in Xtianity but under a NEW LAW, called the LAW OF GRACE, as i mentioned somewhere Jagoon my friend, pls kindly read thru' all the comments i made here and pls tell me if i typed any heresy or simple truth as explained by Jesus in the NL, with this i wish to say TITHEING IS STILL RELEVANT in the NL, dont be DECEIVED by folks here who are 100% LOGICAL and professionals in debating who tend to make peeps see a substance out of no substance. God bless you my friend! pls i am stating here to anyone who feels that titheing aint relevant to come here and prove it with scriptures and tell me if TITHEING WAS A LAW and where it was plainly stated as a LAW |
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