₦airaland Forum

4 Play:
You are free to formulate all the hypothesis your mind can fathom,the problem is where you elevate your hypothesis to empirical truths.

I agree to a certain extent. There are all sorts of TRUTHS, some of which admit of empirical verification. The ones we are talking about here are certainly amenable to empirical validation. For instance, we can empirically verify that the water molecule (H2O) is composed of two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom. Just as we can empirically verify that there once were things called dinosaurs, neandarthal, saber-tooth tigers and mamoths.

Science has the wherewithal to perform these verification. We are simply employing the same methodology to investigate the diversity of life on the planet.

imhotep:
@tpaine
Poor analogies. Give me an analogy using an event that might have happened 90 million years ago - not 1 or 5 years ago.

OK, if that is what you want, here we go;

3)  You drive your car to the petrol filling station to top up on fuel and your 10 year old child asks you, "Daddy, where does petroleum fuel come from?"  Can you formulate a hypothesis to investigate the process of the formation of petroleum fuels?

4)  You take you propective wife to a jewery store to put an engagement ring on her finger. Your partner is not very knowledgeable about sciences but she adores diamond. You also adore her; so will not begrudge her ignorance of these esoteric matters of sciences.  Upon arrival home, she is delighted with the diamond, but asks you how these stones are formed. Can you formulate a hypothesis to investigate the formation of diamonds naturally?  Do you think these natural processes could be artificially mimiced in the labs today?


There you are!

luvus:
HI

went through your list but sorry i missed out on issues that are beyound evolution such as karma and evolution. please can't you just lets shorten it to just this space of my question and all the above issues can be discussed as you answer?

thanks

Sorry, I know these are lots of "difficult" question. But I wanted you to do some thinking first before addressing the subject of evolution.

In my experience as an educator, a lot of people reject evolution (and other theories) because of insufficient grounding in the basic sciences.  Am afraid you run the risk of doing the same if your understanding of the basics is not solid.

Give it a try. Ok, why don't you attempt just any 4 questions. Then I shall show you my hand.

Good Luck.

imhotep:
@tpaine
I'm glad you used the word hypothesis.
Yes, MANY hypothesis can be formulated. If you arrive the scene a few moments after the event, your hypothesis just might be close to the truth.

If you arrive 90 million years later, you need an act of faith to hold on to the hypothesis.

Yes, I used the word hypothesis deliberately because that is how science works. First you construct a hypothesis to investigate and explain the set of facts/evidence you have observed. And then you test out you hypothesis. If it consistently explain the facts (observed data) then it is termed a theory. Even after it is called a theory it should continue to consistently explain the data. Where it fails to explain the data, then it may need modification or total rejection and maybe replace by a better theory.

Just like the germ theory of disease replace the miasma theory of disease.

Now, what if you have a situation that leaves behind evidence (facts ) that last millions (or billions) of years rather than just a few tens of years.

For instance, can you formulate a hypothesis (theory) as to the origin of petroleum fuels from natural processes? If you own a car, you MUST be interested in how that fuel you use all got formed, as a modern day enlightened man. How do you think it got formed.

Another example, can you formulate a hypothesis as to how diamond gets formed naturally. Have you ever given a diamond ring to a loved one? Do you know how it is formed naturally? Do you think it would be possible to artificially mimic the process to produce diamond in the lab?

Thankz. First I MUST commend your desire to learn and learning should be viewed as an all-life process. I too had very rudimentary education in evolution in secondary school, but have since been reading up on the subject a great deal recently.

Here is what I shall do. Rather than go straight into the core of evolution, I would like you to consider a few questions and do some research to prepare your mind for the mainstay of the subject matter.  Can you seek out answers to the following questions, please?  Once you have got the answers, then we can begin talking about evolution.

1-)  What is the speed of light?  How long does it take the light from the sun to reach the earth?
2-)  What is the difference between a theory and a hypothesis in the scientific sense?
3-)  Have you ever heard about the germ theory of disease, the theory of gravity?
4-)  What are stromatolites?
5-)  How old is the earth?
6-)  What is the end-permian extinction and what proportion of life went extinct?
7-)  How long ago were dinosaurs wiped out?
8-)  Do you know what asteroid impact of the earth are?
9-)  Can you give a rough estimate of the number of stars on our galaxy, the Milky Way?
10-) Do you know what chromosomes and DNA are.  Can you name any "genetic disease"?
11-)  On the whole, do you think science and technology provides solutions to human problems?
12-)  Have you ever visted a museum?
13-)  What are fossils?
14-)  What is the geological column?
15-)  What is the theory of plate tectonic?
16-)  How is petroleum fuel formed and how long is the process?


You can get all this information from good science books AND from the internet.   For each answer, can you give an idea of the level of confidence you have for the reliability of the answer. For instance, I could say that I am 100% confident that 2+1=3.

Once you have considered these questions, then we can talk about evolution.

Regards, and looking forward to your response.

Another great video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlS5PRa4E48

Enjoy!

I know next to nothing about this vile phenomenon in Nigeria. I have just watch this video on Youtube. It is pretty grim and horrible. Can someone enlightenment me?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9jaiJJbKd8&feature=related

See also: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118745.0.html

[quote author=Lord_Reed link=topic=118745.msg2040402#msg2040402 date=1205139412]I will agree wit u that these sort of abuses are less in enlightened societies but don't forget that these same enlightened societies throw up their own kinds of abuses.

So for me the solution is not just increased thought and an abandoning of religion but a means by which man's creative drives can be sufficiently harnessed.[/quote]Absolutely. No society is perfect. But education and enlightenment helps eradicate some of the ills of society. Only 300 - 400 years ago they were burning witches in Europe and America (following, Suffer not a witch to live, Exodus 22:18). Today we do not see such act down our streets in Europe, but in other parts of the world.

This is not the sort of issues evolutionist address.  However, if you want to learn about evolution, why don't you get a good biology book. There are many out there.  Or you could watch the videos of Kenneth Miller, Francis Collins on Youtube.

Your question suggest you are ignorant about evolution. Ignorance by itself is not a bad thing and noone can be knowledgeable in everything there is to know. But WILLFUL IGNORANCE is the bane of many of the critics of evolution, as they deliberately seek to ignore or falsify the facts of evolution.

Given the opportunity and your mental capabilities, if you refuse to learn about evolution then I would classify you as wilfully ignorance. And that is a great insult.

[quote author=Lord_Reed link=topic=118745.msg2040330#msg2040330 date=1205136488]Should we ban science n scientific investigations because some scientists abuse their positions?[/quote]Who was calling for a ban? Why do you see less of these in more "educated" and "enlightened" societies?  We should implement systems that ensure that such people are NOT so vulnerable to this sort of exploitation.  Education in rationalism and skepticism is one way.

danity:
Therationa - i thought you were all convinced about Christianity last week, what happened. The video clips on youtube were no longer inspiring?

What gave you that idea? I would rather have hot iron rods inserted thru all my orifices than convert to the falsehood and intellectual barbarism that is Christianity

Christian evangelism is having devastating effects on some parts of Africa. The evangelist have left no stone unmoved. They are now targeting the most vulnerable members of society - children.  Read and look at the following picture gallery and lament.  Something ought to be done fast.

Could these people be reading Exodus 22:18 -  Suffer not a witch to live.

I suggest we need education in scientific and rationalistic naturalism. Or some simple dose of common sense skepticism. As you can all see, supernaturalism is the root source of the problem.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/dec/09/video

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

http://fivepublicopinions./2008/01/21/religion-as-child-abuse-evangelical-pastors-target-child-witches-in-nigeria/

http://www.royalafricansociety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=263&Itemid=262

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4677969.stm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_exor5.htm

http://exchristian.net/2/2007/12/christians-declare-war-on-african-child.html

http://thegoodatheist.net/podcast/01/18/good-atheist-podcast-episode-15/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4727745.stm

http://tinyfrog./2007/12/17/modern-day-witch-hunt-in-africa/

Judges 21, virgin girls are abducted by God's people and given to Benjamin's tribe. Very shocking!

Take a look


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4v_NtLP2lg

Enjoy!

bawomolo:
great thread

I thought I was getting somewhere with Imhotep, when he realised I had cornered him he never came back. My analogy about a fallen tree and car accident remains unanswered by him. Hope he comes back some time. But I will not hold my breath.

This post is begging out for a response!

This post is begging out for a response!

olabowale:
@Tpaine: As I have said there is a causer. The Original Causer is God. Hence it is no surprising that God, the Causer, caused the bringing of Adam and Eve, into form/shape first, and to living breathing thing, which is known as human. Afterall, Adam and Eve are the first male and female from what is known as human.

If you accept evolution, this necessarily contradicts the Adam&Eve story. At what point in the evolutionary process did Adam&Eve first appear. Where they housed in a garden ? Did they commit original sin?

KAG:
I think they call them hospitals, science labs. and and workshops. They produce usually life-changing results that help humanity.

Great response. I wish I had thought of that.

As a scientific theory, evolution has withstood the test of every attempt to falsify it, but each time it passed with flying colours.  The evidence in support of evolution is staggering, ranging from paleontology, geology, genetic etc. Each of these branches of science independently could be capable of falsifying evolution, but interestingly, only find facts that confirm common descent by natural selection.

I have seen all kind of attempts at refuting evolutions - from the bizarre to the ridiculous.  One of the most ridiculous trumpetted by some of the members of Nairaland (particularly Imhotep) is the No-Witness Argument. Basically, he asserts that we must accept evolution on faith because no one was around to witness it.  Below is a typical comment from Imhotep;

imhotep:
That's right. The religion of evolution has many dogmas describing things that happened 100 million years ago.

Since we were not around as at then, we are supposed to accept these dogmas by faith.

This sounds very much like the sola fide (by faith alone) of Martin Luther.

This is wrong in so many counts, it is amazing that someone has reached adulthood (I presume)  and hold such naive understanding of the world and science. This is palpable evidence that the science curriculum in most schools have failed to impart the most basics of scientific understanding.

Science is routinely used to study the past and make predictions about the future; For instance, when we peer into a telescope to look at distance star, we may be looking at events that took place billions of years ago.  The compositions of stars such as our sun is well understood although no-one has physically travelled to these stars.

And many many such studies are carried out daily by scientist all over the world. If this  was a discredited approach to science, then the majority of scientific research would grind to a halt.

Now consider the following analogies;

1) A clearing in the woods

You walk 10 miles into a dense forest and find a clearing in the woods where once there might have been a tree. But the tree is nowhere to be found by simple naked-eye inspection. There were no eye witnesses of witness the falling and rotting away (or carting off) of the tree. Say, you arrive at the scene 1 - 5 years after the clearing appeared.  Is it possible to formulate a hypothesis to determine what happened at this location?

2) The site of a car crash.

You are a forensic car accident investigator. You arrive at the scene of a hit-and-run accident, with the car having hit a road-traffic installations and there are no eye-witnesses. The culprit car has been driven away from the scene of the crash. Is it possible to formulate a hypothesis to explain the plausible set of explanations as to the damage to the road installation?

3)  You drive your car to the petrol filling station to top up on fuel and your 10 year old child asks you, "Daddy, where does petroleum fuel come from?"  Can you formulate a hypothesis to investigate the process of the formation of petroleum fuels?

4)  You take you prospective wife to a jewery store to put an engagement ring on her finger. Your partner is not very knowledgeable about sciences but she adores diamond. You also adore her; so will not begrudge her ignorance of these esoteric matters of sciences.  Upon arrival home, she is delighted with the diamond, but asks you how these stones are formed. Can you formulate a hypothesis to investigate the formation of diamonds naturally?  Do you think these natural processes could be artificially mimicked in the labs today?

Consider the above when next you are tempted to use the No-Witness Argument.


BTW, evolution is happen all the time as I write.  The Nylon-eating bacteria is a new bacteria that evolve only after nylon was invented in the 50s. There are many more examples.

=====================================================================================================

Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115458.0.html

What Are Jesus's Core Moral Teachings And Which Are Unique To Him
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118622.0.html

Which Christianity? Pauline Or Jamesian
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-117735.0.html

Jesus, The Law And The Death Penalty
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118541.0.html

With God On Our Side: God-inspired Violence - The Christians
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118563.0.html

Speaking In Tongues: Is It Real Language Or Garrulous Babble?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118036.0.html

Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118613.0.html

Don't Know Much About Evolution?: Watch Dr Kenneth Miller Make It Simple
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116650.0.html

The Theory Of Evolution Refuted? The No-witness Argument
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118701.0.html

Can One Embrace Evolution And Maintain Christian (or Other Religious) Belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118684.0.html

Which Ten Commandments?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115811.0.html#msg1998588

Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115745.0.html

Does Anyone Not Know What The Permian–triassic Extinction Event Is ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115553.0.html

What Are Spiritual Truths?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115666.0.html#msg1996318

Road To Damascus Incident: Paul's Account
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115689.0.html#msg1996608

Noah, Kangaroos, Sloth, Polar Bear And Panda In A Wooden Boat
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115589.0.html#msg1994984

Resurrection Accounts In The Gospel: Reconciliation Wanted
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115582.0.html

Does Jesus Know What Causes Sin? Thank Goodness He Doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115292.0.html

The Dreadful Plight Of Apostasy In The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115114.0.html

Is The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115053.0.html

Jesus And The Old Laws
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115190.0.html

What Can Be Said To Be Definitely Known About Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114935.0.html

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

The Sexual Act And Christian Teaching
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114332.0.html

Scientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114253.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

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https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

What lasting Benefits Did Jesus Bring Into The World?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115382.0.html#msg1992157

The Catholic Doctrine, Original Sin And Evolution
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115525.0.html#msg1994039

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

olabowale:
Sure. The One who puts the evolution to occur, in stages is God Almighty Himself. Afterall, there is always a causer to bring effectiveness. This is what you may call cause and effect. Take human for example: before there is a fetus, there was just a sperm (the organism) and egg, both fusing together. The outcome, after all the stages, is completely different from these two beginning elements, sperm and egg!

What then do you make of the Adam & Eve story of Abrahamic tradition?

Imhotep,

Are you still there?

imhotep:
It depends on WHEN you, the observer, arrive at the scene.

If you arrive 60 million years after the tree disappears, YOU WILL NOT have anything to hold on to in order to make an informed decision about the existence of the tree.

My goodness, you are surprising me today. Absolutely correct. That is why I said "within reason" in my last post.

But let us say you arrive on the scene 1 - 4 years after the event.

In fact, a good analogy would be a forensic car accident investigator who arrives at the scene of a hit and run accident where the vehicle crashed into a wall or road intersection, but the vehicle has been drive away from the scene. And there wer no eye-witness at the scene.

Anyway, you arrive at the scene. Can you formulate a hypothesis to investigate what might have happened at the scene (of the fallen tree or the car crash) given that you were not there, nor was anyone there to witness the event?

imhotep:
A fallen tree can be ->
- decayed and re-fertilize the soil
- carted away by elephants
- carted away by men
- eaten by ants
- eaten by termites
- eaten by a combination of goats, antelope, ants and termites
- etc etc etc

The end result is the same - the tree disappers.

Really weeeeeeeell done. weeeel done. We are getting somewhere. You are beginning to use those little gray cells

End result is that the tree is no longer there when you arrive on the spot however long after the tree fell.

Within reason, do you think it is possible to tell that a tree once stood on that spot and had fallen and been eaten up (or carted away, etc, etc, etc)?

imhotep:
There are many ways to make a fallen tree disapper.

It smacks of religious dogmatism to insist on ONLY ONE way for the tree to disappear.

Far be it from me to be dogmatic. I was simply suggesting a proposition that happens to millions of trees daily out there in the forest of the world. Which is more like? That a fallen tree in the middle of a jungle would be eaten by ants and bugs or that it would be carted away by something else?

Please, don't thrash about. Answer the question.

imhotep:
At least I SAW a fallen tree.

In the case of evolution, they see no tree, but an empty patch of land. They then conjecture that a tree must have been growing on that patch of land, and that this tree somehow disappeared from sight.

Good, we are making progress.

Now, let's say by the time you arrive, the tree had been eaten up by some really hungry termites and bugs, leaving no visible trunk and branches and leaves. Do you think it is still possible to determine that a tree once stood there but fell and was eaten or rotted away?

Some of the world's leading evolutionary biologist are Christians or theistic. (I know this is an argument from authority, but just bear with me) Here is a sample;

Francis Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief [BARGAIN PRICE] (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-Scientist-Presents-Evidence/dp/B0012F7VFE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205083746&sr=1-1

Kenneth Miller, Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution (P.S.) (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwins-God-Scientists-Evolution/dp/0061233501/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205083695&sr=1-1

Watch  Ken Miller explain the theory and successes of evolution;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5qZ9g4VHL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlqkcZJtCjQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtOgeIyNREQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vw2t1dHQtA&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vw2t1dHQtA&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_i0QibHI8&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwX-yUh5qo8&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbjHjLncH0&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG5CHaUh_sk&feature=related


Daniel Fairbank,  Relics of Eden: The Powerful Evidence of Evolution in Human DNA (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/Relics-Eden-Powerful-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1591025648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205083583&sr=1-1

Even the ID proponent Michael Behe does not refute evolution.

And there are many more.  I would especially recommend Kenneth Millers book. It is simple one of the best books I have ever read, simply amzing and very engaging. His videos and lectures too are brilliant.


Would critics of evolution think that these scientist are misguided in their sciences or their theology? Anyone who objectively looks at the fact and evidence for evolution cannot but be marvelled at the human ingenuity that went into unravelling and unveiling this aspect of nature.

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Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115458.0.html

What Are Jesus's Core Moral Teachings And Which Are Unique To Him
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118622.0.html

Which Christianity? Pauline Or Jamesian
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-117735.0.html

Jesus, The Law And The Death Penalty
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118541.0.html

With God On Our Side: God-inspired Violence - The Christians
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118563.0.html

Speaking In Tongues: Is It Real Language Or Garrulous Babble?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118036.0.html

Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118613.0.html

Don't Know Much About Evolution?: Watch Dr Kenneth Miller Make It Simple
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116650.0.html

The Theory Of Evolution Refuted? The No-witness Argument
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118701.0.html

Can One Embrace Evolution And Maintain Christian (or Other Religious) Belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118684.0.html

Which Ten Commandments?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115811.0.html#msg1998588

Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115745.0.html

Does Anyone Not Know What The Permian–triassic Extinction Event Is ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115553.0.html

What Are Spiritual Truths?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115666.0.html#msg1996318

Road To Damascus Incident: Paul's Account
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115689.0.html#msg1996608

Noah, Kangaroos, Sloth, Polar Bear And Panda In A Wooden Boat
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115589.0.html#msg1994984

Resurrection Accounts In The Gospel: Reconciliation Wanted
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115582.0.html

Does Jesus Know What Causes Sin? Thank Goodness He Doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115292.0.html

The Dreadful Plight Of Apostasy In The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115114.0.html

Is The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115053.0.html

Jesus And The Old Laws
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115190.0.html

What Can Be Said To Be Definitely Known About Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114935.0.html

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

The Sexual Act And Christian Teaching
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114332.0.html

Scientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114253.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

What lasting Benefits Did Jesus Bring Into The World?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115382.0.html#msg1992157

The Catholic Doctrine, Original Sin And Evolution
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115525.0.html#msg1994039

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

imhotep:
That's right. The religion of evolution has many dogmas describing things that happened 100 million years ago.

Since we were not around as at then, we are supposed to accept these dogmas by faith.

This sounds very much like the sola fide (by faith alone) of Martin Luther.

Goodness me!

Let's say you walk 20 miles into the forest and find a 90 metres Mahogany tree down on its side having smashed a great deal of the shrubs and vegetation around it as it fell.

Now, how would you know this tree fell? You were not there when it fell and hit the ground. But can tell from the evidence it left behind that it fell?

Anyone knows their bibles?

any takers?

Exodus 22:18 -  Suffer not a witch to live.  This verse has many modern day rendering, but non calls for compasionate treatment of anyone suspected of witchcraft.  The witch hunt and burning in Europe and Americas were all inspired directly by this verse. This is still happening is some parts of the world.

BTW, what is the acid-test for detecting the "genuine witch" from the "charlatan witch"?

Moral - Beware of the dangers of fundamentalism.

See also: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118745.0.html