₦airaland Forum

kola oloye:
@Javalove
It is a spiritual thing so it will always be difficult for you to believe it with your Canal mind.
Flower is a major ingredient in making bread, how would you define a bread without
mentionning flower? So it is when you are talking about the word of God,Bible should still
be your reference book. PLS GET UNDERSTANDING.

By this standard, aren't the ko-ran, or the Egyptian Book of the Dead also words of God if one can muster the requisite spirituality for the various beliefs.

Much as I detest religious-based thinking, in a free society it is important to preserve the values of free of speech and free of worship.

On the other hand, I favour a programme of education in the sciences, philosophies, skepticism and naturalistic rationalism. If you check it out, you will see that most "enlightened" countries ( viz, Sweden, Norway, UK) have a low religiosity index, thankx mainly to education. The most superstitious contries in the world are usually the least educated. As education spreads, superstitions generally retreats.

Very interesting articles about the bible by J. Farrell Till. A must read.


http://www.theskepticalreview.com/AuthorFarrellTill.html

Enjoy!

babaearly:
How would an answer help your miserable life? You have abused this thread and people's faith enough. Do you have an heart, think about what you are doing, Nairalanders are not BOTS.

Faith is a very bad and unreliable epistemic device and the sooner it is no longer part of modern existence, the better. So it gives me great pleasure to attack this "great evil at the centre of the modern era"

SysUser:
Here is sample of the STUPIDITY AND LIES PROPAGATED BY IS.L.A.M, are part of the reason why i don't believe that is.l.a.m is from the same GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that i serve and hence why i reject the replacement of the word A.L.L.AH with GOD:





http://www.carm.org/the great religion/hadith_interesting2.htm

Interesting Quotes from the Hadith
Part two.

God made Adam 60 cubits high (generally a cubit was 18 inches. Therefore, Adam was 90 feet tall)
The Prophet said, "God created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and God's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation." Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Water flowed out from under the fingernails of The Great Prophet
We used to consider miracles as God's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with God's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from God." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of God's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying God, when it was being eaten (by him). Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779, Narrated 'Abdullah:

A man was blown by a wind to a distant mountain
We took part in the holy battle of Tabuk in the company of the Prophet and when we arrived at the Wadi-al-Qura, there was a woman in her garden. The Prophet asked his companions to estimate the amount of the fruits in the garden, and God's Apostle estimated it at ten Awsuq (One Wasaq = 60 Sa's) and 1 Sa'= 3 kg. approximately). The Prophet said to that lady, "Check what your garden will yield." When we reached Tabuk, the Prophet said, "There will be a strong wind to-night and so no one should stand and whoever has a camel, should fasten it." So we fastened our camels. A strong wind blew at night and a man stood up and he was blown away to a mountain called Taiy, The King of Aila sent a white mule and a sheet for wearing to the Prophet as a present, and wrote to the Prophet that his people would stay in their place (and will pay Jizya taxation.) Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559, Narrated Abu Humaid As-Sa'idi

The Great Prophet is ordered by God to fight all people until they worship God
God's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by God) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but God and that The Great Prophet is God's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Great Religious laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by God." Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24, Narrated Ibn 'Umar.

The Qur'an was revealed in the dialect of the Quraish [/b]
"(The Caliph 'Uthman ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Said bin Al-As, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham to write the The Great Book in the form of a book (Mushafs) and said to them. "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit (Al-Ansari) regarding any dialectic Arabic utterance of the The Great Book, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the The Great Book was revealed in this dialect." So they did it." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 507, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

The Qur'an was not collected together by The Great Prophet
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the The Great Book by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which God's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By God, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till God opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for God's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)." By God If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which God's Apostle did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By God, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until God opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and 'Umar. So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palmed stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat At-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: 'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (The Great Prophet) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty, (till the end of Surat-Baraa' (At-Tauba) (9.128-129) Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with 'Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of 'Umar." Volume 6, Book 61, Number 509, Narrated Zaid bin Thabit.

The Qur'an was compiled because of differences among various manuscripts
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (The Great Book) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Great One province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear God's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with God.' (33.23) Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510, Narrated Anas bin Malik.

A Qur'anic verse is cancelled
The Prophet sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of God's Apostle (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "God is Greater! By the Lord of the Kaba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased " Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet invoked God for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed God and his Apostle." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57, Narrated Anas. See also Volume 4, Book 52, See also, 69, and 299.

Various Qur'an manuscripts had missing verses
Zaid bin Thabit said, "When the The Great Book was compiled from various written manuscripts, one of the Verses of Surat Al-Ahzab was missing which I used to hear God's Apostle reciting. I could not find it except with Khuzaima bin Thabjt Al-Ansari, whose witness God's Apostle regarded as equal to the witness of two men. And the Verse was:-- "Among the believers are men who have been true to what they covenanted with God." (33.23) Volume 4, Book 52, Number 62, Narrated Kharija bin Zaid.

The Great Prophet was once bewitched
"Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400, Narrated Aisha.

The Great Prophet said that one wing of a house fly has a disease and the other wing has the cure
The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537, Narrated Abu Huraira.

God forgave a prostitute of her sins because she gave water to a dying dog
God's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by God, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, God forgave her because of that." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 538, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Angels don't enter houses with dogs in them
The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house witch has either a dog or a picture in it." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 539, Narrated Abu Talha.

Jinn eat dung and animal bones
That once he was in the, company of the Prophet carrying a water pot for his ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While he was following him carrying it(i.e. the pot), the Prophet said, "Who is this?" He said, "I am Abu Huraira." The Prophet said, "Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, and do not bring any bones or animal dung." Abu Huraira went on narrating: So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side and went away. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, "What about the bone and the animal dung?" He said, "They are of the food of Jinns. The delegate of Jinns of (the city of) Nasibin came to me--and how nice those Jinns were--and asked me for the remains of the human food. I invoked God for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on them." Volume 5, Book 58, Number 200, Narrated Abu Huraira.

Women and sons can be mortgaged
". . . Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." The Great Prophet bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah.

The Angel Gabriel had 600 wings.
I asked Sir about the Statement of God: 'And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer. So did God convey the Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he (Gabriel) conveyed that to The Great Prophet.' (53.10) He said, "Abdullah (bin Mas'ud) informed us that The Great Prophet had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 380, Narrated assailant.

The moon was cut into two pieces
During the lifetime of God's Apostle the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, God's Apostle said, "Witness this miracle." 388The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 387-388, Narrated Ibn Masud and Abdullah. See also 389-391.

A fever is from the heat of hell fire
I used to sit with Ibn 'Abbas in Mecca. Once I had a fever and he said (to me), "Cool your fever with Zam-zam water, for God's Apostle said: 'It, (the Fever) is from the heat of the (Hell) Fire; so, cool it with water (or Zam-zam water)." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 483, Narrated Abu Jamra Ad-Dabi.

What does you bible say about picking out the dirt in someone else's eye?

Are you sure similar stupidity, lies and absurdities could not be found in your bible?

You are mistaken, my man. Don't for any TRUTHS in the bible.

Have you met any Christians who approach their religion and belief from an intellectual perspective? Then you are a lucky person indeed, for such types of Christians are few and far between. These are usually the types who are considered most of the regular narratives from the bible and have re-interpreted them to fit the prevailing societal norms. The treat large portions of the Old Testament as mainly non-literal, allegorical or metaphoric. Their criteria for deciding which elements are metaphor is generally the scientific method. Basically, where a story violently contradicts the facts, these stories are given a re-interpretation. Thus theistic evolutions, and Old Earth Creationists (OEC) do not accepts the Genesis accounts, nor the Noah Flood accounts. On the whole, the non-literal Christians are sophisticated people who are embarassed by their literal cousins. The non-literal are less likely to quote chapter and verse from the bible to support any criticism of the bible. They are more likely to resort to independent complex philosophical arguments.

On the other hand, there are the filter-feeders of reason, the literalist, who do not see the illogic of quoting chapter and verse and preaching when put under intellectual pressure to provide evidence for their beliefs. They general enjoy the perverse luxury of not having to be philosophical consistent nevermind factually correct.

This forum is replete with this lower breed of Christians. They would sooner preach to you than think, as if thinking hurts thier minds. Well, I have this to say to you if you are so inclined; refrain from preaching and from using the bible to defend the bible. That is called circular logic.

My encounters and conversations with most Christians about the tenets, origins and history of their religion usually leaves me puzzled as to the abject ignorance within the Christian community of the bearest and basic information about their belief system. For instance, the majority of Christian know little or nothing about the following;


1-) The bible - its writers, composition, compilation
2-) The various church councils, eg Nicea
3-) The conversion of Emperor Constantine
4-) The Arian controversy
5-) The difference between the immaculate conception and the virgin birth
6-) The crusades
7-) The witchhunts
8-) For Catholics, the various papal sexual, financial and murderous scandals

That people could commit so much of their time and effort on a belief system and institution they have very little knowledge of is an indictment to the faculty of reason.

Why are the majority of Christians so bone-dry pig ignorant about their own religion?

Some god-believers claim they are in direct communication with their god(s). This is nothing new, in fact. The page of the bible are full of instance where god speaks to his favourites, either commanding them to commit gross barbarism or else just dishing out inane commandments and injunctions. The modern era is no different; we have a plethera of prophets today who claim to be in a hotline with god. But should we believe these claim? How does one know god is speaking to one. Is it via audible dialogue, vision, dreams, written text, hallucinations? How would you distincguish god's words from those of non-gods?

If in speaking to you, god were to command you to commit a crime/offense (or anything that contravenes common discency or morality), would you carry out the act?

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Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115458.0.html

What Are Jesus's Core Moral Teachings And Which Are Unique To Him
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118622.0.html

The Theory Of Evolution Refuted? The No-witness Argument
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118701.0.html

Which Christianity? Pauline Or Jamesian
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-117735.0.html

Jesus, The Law And The Death Penalty
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118541.0.html

With God On Our Side: God-inspired Violence - The Christians
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118563.0.html

Speaking In Tongues: Is It Real Language Or Garrulous Babble?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118036.0.html

Capital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118613.0.html

Don't Know Much About Evolution?: Watch Dr Kenneth Miller Make It Simple
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116650.0.html

The Theory Of Evolution Refuted? The No-witness Argument
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118701.0.html

Can One Embrace Evolution And Maintain Christian (or Other Religious) Belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118684.0.html

Which Ten Commandments?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115811.0.html#msg1998588

Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115745.0.html

Does Anyone Not Know What The Permian–triassic Extinction Event Is ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115553.0.html

What Are Spiritual Truths?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115666.0.html#msg1996318

Road To Damascus Incident: Paul's Account
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115689.0.html#msg1996608

Noah, Kangaroos, Sloth, Polar Bear And Panda In A Wooden Boat
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115589.0.html#msg1994984

Resurrection Accounts In The Gospel: Reconciliation Wanted
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115582.0.html

Does Jesus Know What Causes Sin? Thank Goodness He Doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115292.0.html

The Dreadful Plight Of Apostasy In The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115114.0.html

Is The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115053.0.html

Jesus And The Old Laws
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115190.0.html

What Can Be Said To Be Definitely Known About Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114935.0.html

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669

The Sexual Act And Christian Teaching
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114332.0.html

Scientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114253.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

What lasting Benefits Did Jesus Bring Into The World?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115382.0.html#msg1992157

The Catholic Doctrine, Original Sin And Evolution
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115525.0.html#msg1994039

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

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Who is Ronald Weinland? Prophet of god, or what?

server them right

Do anyone know of any biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled? Please share them with us.

May kelly:
@ Topic: Re: The Vatican: Could More Lives Have Been Saved From Aids In Africa With Condoms?

More Lives would have been perished in Africa with Condoms, but more could be saved with the Word of GOD

Not surprising there are more sufferers of AIDs in Africa than most of the "enlightened" world. Religiosity is killing reason in that place and you are clearly a victim. What a shame!

KAG:
Hopefully, with continued repetition of the post, the import of the contents of my post will hit you.



First, that no tangible evidence exists foe the existence of gods, that they are always hidden behind the recesses in knowledge, and that for things with so many allocated properties they cannot be potentially tested or falsified in any way, indicates that gods, including the Christian one, are imaginary. To quote Anthony Flew, "Just how does what you call an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive [god] differ from an imaginary [god] or even from no [god] at all?" [1]. Furthermore, since we can deduce the reasons for why humans may have needed to create gods, and strongly infer how the gods could have come into being as a result of human agents, we can further still see why the gods are imaginary

Secondly, god by its very definition is of a mythological nature. To ask that I prove that a god is mythological is to misunderstand what the terms imply. so, unless you have positive evidence you've been keeping secret, god belongs to mythology [2].

Finally, like I said on numerous occasions, science doesn't do proofs. Alcoholics who practise science may, but science doesn't. What can be shown though is the likelihood of something or the other. by the way, were you seriously asking me to use science to prove an unevidenced god is mythological?


____________________________________________________________ __________________________________

[1] Flew, Anthony, "Theology and Falsification", from: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/flew_falsification.html

[2] Meaning of mythology and its implications: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

What's not good enough? Edit: Not good enough for what?

My goodness, you have got the patience of "Job" (pun intended). These guys are impervious to reason, yet you graciously stick it there and go over the same point with them. Admirable!

Frank Zindler, editor of American Atheist Magazine, has asserted that Nazareth did not exist in the first century.[52] His arguments include the following:

* No "ancient historians or geographers mention [Nazareth] before the beginning of the fourth century [AD]."[53]
* Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud, nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
* Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulun (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages
* Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD).
* Nazareth is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.

Zindler's view is historically possible if Nazareth came into existence at the same time that the New Testament gospels were being written and redacted. Most scholars place the writing of the gospels that do mention Nazareth between the two Jewish-Roman wars (70 AD-132 AD).

don't waste your breath. the whole thing (jesus and mary business) is made up.

Anyone to aacount for this failed prophecies?

It has been known for many years in [Biblical] archeological community that the town of Nazareth pre 0 CE was pretty much non-existent.  The historian Josephus gives very detail account of the major towns and citys in the area in the early 1st century but has no mention of Nazareth. Other historian studying the period verge on the notion that the town did not exist until later in the 1st or early 2nd century.

Frank Zindler, editor of American Atheist Magazine, has asserted that Nazareth did not exist in the first century.[52] His arguments include the following:

* No "ancient historians or geographers mention [Nazareth] before the beginning of the fourth century [AD]."[53]
* Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud, nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
* Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulun (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages
* Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD).
* Nazareth is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.

Zindler's view is historically possible if Nazareth came into existence at the same time that the New Testament gospels were being written and redacted. Most scholars place the writing of the gospels that do mention Nazareth between the two Jewish-Roman wars (70 AD-132 AD).


This new book by Rene Salm (The Myth of Nazareth) investigate the Nazareth issue is in more detail.  I have copied the editors review from Amazon and it's given below:

http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Nazareth-Invented-Town-Jesus/dp/1578840031/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205532303&sr=8-2

Review
I am amazed by your work and can't wait to see the pathetic attempts to reply! -- Robert M. Price, PhD, ThD, Author, The Pre-Nicene New Testament, Deconstructing Jesus, Jesus Is Dead, etc. Christianity cannot survive unless this book can be refuted. By proving scientifically that Nazareth was uninhabited at the time Jesus of Nazareth and his family were supposed to be living there, Salm strikes the Achilles' heel of a very popular god. We KNOW the Wizard of Oz is not real, since we know there never was a Land of Oz. Because of this exhaustive archaeological investigation, we now know that Jesus of Nazareth also is a literary fiction. Apologists and all other professional Christians are going to be out of work unless they can disprove this book -- or find a way to suppress it. -- Frank R. Zindler, Author, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew --Back cover


Product Description
The Myth Of Nazareth presents convincing archaeological evidence that the town of Nazareth was not settled until after the First Jewish War, around 70 CE. Exhaustive reconsideration of ALL artifacts from present-day Nazareth shows that the site was not inhabited at the time Jesus of Nazareth and his family are supposed to have been living there. In this book researcher René Salm proves that a core element of the Jesus story was an invention of the evangelists who wrote their gospels towards the end of the first century CE -- as it turns out, at the same time the village of Nazareth was coming into being. Requiring eight years of painstaking research, The Myth Of Nazareth surveys the archaeological record of the Nazareth basin from the Stone Age until modern times. It guides the reader through a stunning odyssey of discovery -- one which exposes not only the true history of the site but also a scandalous history of evidentiary suppression reaching back into Early Christian Times. The here-established fact that Nazareth is a literary invention puts Jesus of Nazareth in the same class as the Wizard of Oz and implies that Jesus too is a literary invention. Coming shortly after the claim of Israeli archaeologist Aviram Oshri that Bethlehem in Judea also was uninhabited at the time Jesus is supposed to have been born there, Salm's research seems to be delivering a one-two knockout punch to the character known as The Historical Jesus.

Also check out an interview Rene Salm gave The Infidel Guy at http://www.infidelguy.com/  or get the podcast at http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ig-the-myth-of-nazareth/7147984/



There is certainly more to be said on this subject. I shall get a copy of the book and post my review in due course.

More Info
http://www.nazarethmyth.info/
http://cdn4.libsyn.com/dogmafreeamerica/four.mp3

What is the doctrine of predestination and is it legitimate Christian doctrine?

Why didn't you use some punctuation?

Try as you might, you will never really know the authors. When you think you "know" the authors you are simply deluding yourself

anybody knows why god could not remember the order in which he created his creatures?

Did these prophecies come to pass? Source: http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/




Ezekiel predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt and was wrong.

Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt utterly destroying it, slaying and scattering it’s people, and that it will stay uninhabited for 40 years.

In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage.

Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed.

(Ezek 29:10 NRSV) therefore, I am against you, and against your channels, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia.

(Ezek 29:11 NRSV) No human foot shall pass through it, and no animal foot shall pass through it; it shall be uninhabited forty years.

(Ezek 29:12 NRSV) I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries.

(Ezek 30:10 NRSV) Thus says the Lord GOD: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt, by the hand of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon.

(Ezek 30:11 NRSV) He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations, shall be brought in to destroy the land; and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the
land with the slain.

————————————————————————-

Ezekiel predicts the destruction of Tyre (Tyrus) by Nebuchadrezzar and is wrong again.

Ezekiel incorrectly predicts that the island of Tyre (Tyrus) will be utterly destroyed and "made a bare rock" which will "never be rebuilt".

At the time of the prediction, it seemed like to be a sure thing, but 13 years of seige later Nebuchadrezzar gives up. The Island of Tyre is not destroyed or even conquered. It is not made
"a bare rock" that will "never be rebuilt".

Ezekiel admits his error in Ezek 29:17

(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)

(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great
and powerful army.

(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?

(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later…)

(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Here Ezekiel admits he was wrong)

(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it.

(So he then predicts that God decides to give Egypt to him instead, another Ezekiel prophecy that completely failed)

————————————————————————-

Micah predicts the destruction of Jerusalem (which at the time was about to be invaded by Sennacherib and seemed inevitable) blaming the destruction on the corruption of the priesthood of Judah.

Jerusalem was sieged, but the destruction didn’t happen.

A century later Jeremiah quotes Micah and tries to excuse the failed prophecy by saying that "the Lord changed his mind" about that destruction.

(Micah 3:12 NRSV) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.

(~100 years and no destruction later…)

(Jer 26:18 NRSV) "Micah of Moresheth, who prophesied during the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.’

(Jer 26:19 NRSV) Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? …

————————————————————————-

The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim, Nebuchadnezzar will conquer Judah.

The third year of Jehoiakim’s reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.

(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods.

————————————————————————-

Jeremiah incorrectly predicts 70 years for the Babylonian exiles but they only lasted 59 years.

The 1rst exile started in 597 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar first takes Jerusalem and appoints Zedekiah king (Judah’s last king). Nebuchadnezzar has temple equipment taken away.

The start of the 2nd exile was in 586 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem a second time putting down a rebellion and destroys the temple.

The end comes in 538 BCE when Cyrus takes Babylon and ends the Babylonian kingdom. Jews are then allowed to return to Judah.

(Jer 29:10 NRSV) For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon’s seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

====================================================================================

lami4life:
@Poster

Aside from several fulfilled prophecies over the centuries, I'll tell u why i'm convinced the bible is of divine origin

- Archaelogy and history support it. in fact, many historical facts raised in the bible which were hitherto doubted and criticized by scientist are now being established by new archaelogical findings. will be back with specific instances.

- Tell me of any other compliation of 66 small books, written by 40 different individuals with diverse backgrounds over several centuries, with such coherence and consistency and i will accept it as THE BOOK. for it have achieved this, it must have been divinely inspired. Think about, even in the field of advanced science, they never agree.

-I am yet to see any other book that has undergone such intense extinction attempts by governments and other authorities over several centuries and yet survived it. Right now it's even waxed stronger as it is the most widely distributed book in the world. It's phenomenal! IT HAS TO HAVE DIVINE BACKING. Will be back with specific cases.

-This book has positively changed lives in unimaginable proportions.

IT IS DIVINE.

lami4life:
Aside from several fulfilled prophecies over the centuries, I'll tell u why i'm convinced the bible is of divine origin

Would be interesting to know which prophecies have been fulfilled? How about the prophecies about Egypt? Check some of these out. Source: http://www.goatstar.org/failed-prophecies/

Ezekiel predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt and was wrong.

Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt utterly destroying it, slaying and scattering it’s people, and that it will stay uninhabited for 40 years.

In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage.

Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed.

(Ezek 29:10 NRSV) therefore, I am against you, and against your channels, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia.

(Ezek 29:11 NRSV) No human foot shall pass through it, and no animal foot shall pass through it; it shall be uninhabited forty years.

(Ezek 29:12 NRSV) I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries.

(Ezek 30:10 NRSV) Thus says the Lord GOD: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt, by the hand of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon.

(Ezek 30:11 NRSV) He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations, shall be brought in to destroy the land; and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the
land with the slain.

Ezekiel predicts the destruction of Tyre (Tyrus) by Nebuchadrezzar and is wrong again.

Ezekiel incorrectly predicts that the island of Tyre (Tyrus) will be utterly destroyed and "made a bare rock" which will "never be rebuilt".

At the time of the prediction, it seemed like to be a sure thing, but 13 years of seige later Nebuchadrezzar gives up. The Island of Tyre is not destroyed or even conquered. It is not made
"a bare rock" that will "never be rebuilt".

Ezekiel admits his error in Ezek 29:17

(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)

(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great
and powerful army.

(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?

(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later…)

(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Here Ezekiel admits he was wrong)

(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it.

(So he then predicts that God decides to give Egypt to him instead, another Ezekiel prophecy that completely failed)

————————————————————————-

Micah predicts the destruction of Jerusalem (which at the time was about to be invaded by Sennacherib and seemed inevitable) blaming the destruction on the corruption of the priesthood of Judah.

Jerusalem was sieged, but the destruction didn’t happen.

A century later Jeremiah quotes Micah and tries to excuse the failed prophecy by saying that "the Lord changed his mind" about that destruction.

(Micah 3:12 NRSV) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.

(~100 years and no destruction later…)

(Jer 26:18 NRSV) "Micah of Moresheth, who prophesied during the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.’

(Jer 26:19 NRSV) Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? …

————————————————————————-

The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim, Nebuchadnezzar will conquer Judah.

The third year of Jehoiakim’s reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.

(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods.

————————————————————————-

Jeremiah incorrectly predicts 70 years for the Babylonian exiles but they only lasted 59 years.

The 1rst exile started in 597 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar first takes Jerusalem and appoints Zedekiah king (Judah’s last king). Nebuchadnezzar has temple equipment taken away.

The start of the 2nd exile was in 586 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem a second time putting down a rebellion and destroys the temple.

The end comes in 538 BCE when Cyrus takes Babylon and ends the Babylonian kingdom. Jews are then allowed to return to Judah.

(Jer 29:10 NRSV) For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon’s seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

lami4life:
- Archaelogy and history support it. in fact, many historical facts raised in the bible which were hitherto doubted and criticized by scientist are now being established by new archaelogical findings. will be back with specific instances.

The fact is, there is very little factual evidence of many of the events and narrative described in the bible : no exodus, no garden of eden, no large scale Israeli sojourn in Egypt, no wandering in the desert, no wall of Jericho as described.
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/B00009NDAK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205498865&sr=8-3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Finkelstein

lami4life:
- Tell me of any other compliation of 66 small books, written by 40 different individuals with diverse backgrounds over several centuries, with such coherence and consistency and i will accept it as THE BOOK. for it have achieved this, it must have been divinely inspired. Think about, even in the field of advanced science, they never agree.

I depends which bible you read; some have 66 books, some more other less. Which is the real bible then? Has god spoken more to the followers of bibles with more than 66 books?

Would you consider the Torah (on which the bible is based) as the word of god?

lami4life:
-I am yet to see any other book that has undergone such intense extinction attempts by governments and other authorities over several centuries and yet survived it. Right now it's even waxed stronger as it is the most widely distributed book in the world. It's phenomenal! IT HAS TO HAVE DIVINE BACKING. Will be back with specific cases.

It survive thankx to the predomonance of the credulous and gullible. Are you aware of the massive christians campaigns against non-christian literature that culminated in the possible burning of the library in Alexandria by a christian mob. This book has survived mainly due to the persecution of it's opponents.

Decree of Theophilus in 391

In 391, Christian Emperor Theodosius I ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and the Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

lami4life:
-This book has positively changed lives in unimaginable proportions.

Any material/book can change lives. The qur-an, the book of mormon, the Egyptian book of the dead have all changed many million (if not billions) of lives.

fotodaddy:
A fool says in his heart "There is no God"

People be wise.

Matthew 5:

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.    23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

You have been warned!

Be careful how you use the word "fool" or you may roast in hell as Jesus himself warn in Matthew 5: 22.

Psalm 14: 1

1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.


Matthew 5: 17 -23

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.   23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.



Now, don't say I did not warn you if you end up being grilled in the fireworks of hell. Also remember that to avoid hell you also have to be a stickler for the law, even more so than the Pharasees.  So, you have been warned.!

The biblical events of the creation are described in Genesis 1 & 2. But these narratives do no agree as to the order in which god created the world.

For instance, Genesis 1 gives the following order of events;

plants
animals
man & woman

Genesis 2 gives the following order of creation;

man
plants
animals
woman

Why do these events not agree? In fact, the whole world creation narrative is in a terrible mess. God did not create the sun until the fourth day in one of the narrative. Now, if the sun was not created until the "4th day", was were the days/night determined before the sun was created. How was the earth held around its orbit in the first three days before the sun was created given that the sun's gravitation is responsible for keeping the planets in their orbit?

This whole story is a big big mess!

samba123:
Is their a book name FACT ABOUT EVOLUTION? can anyone of you give me the name of the book.

No there isn't, because evolution is a theory that explains the observed FACTS of the diversity of life. There are many books about the theory of evolution, if you are interested. But I guess from the tone of your question, you are not really interested.

olabowale:
@Tpaine: How is then possible that crude oil are found in desert areas, and not exclusively off shore? You do know that there is a process being developed right here in the USA, where human sewage is being accelerated within a period of 2 days to get a usable product of biofuel? In other words, if Oil is gotten from places like saudi arabia and other desert land mass, then it proved that these lands used to be under water and or had received a good deposit of organic materials, buried under its surface and the same process of its convertion to crude has taken place. Afterall, no proof is provided that human body can not go through the same process. And no proof that water is needed for convertion any plant/animal material to crude.

Why do you keep associating fossil fuels with the human body. Humans were not around when most of the fossil fuels were laid down. Did you read my earlier post? Here it is again. Please read!

Most geologists view crude oil and natural gas as the product of compression and heating of ancient organic materials over geological time. Oil is formed from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae which have been settled to the sea (or lake) bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions. Terrestrial plants, on the other hand, tend to form coal. Over geological time this organic matter, mixed with mud, is buried under heavy layers of sediment. The resulting high levels of heat and pressure cause the organic matter to chemically change during diagenesis, first into a waxy material known as kerogen which is found in various oil shales around the world, and then with more heat into liquid and gaseous hydrocarbons in a process known as catagenesis.

Geologists often refer to an "oil window" which is the temperature range that oil forms in—below the minimum temperature oil remains trapped in the form of kerogen, and above the maximum temperature the oil is converted to natural gas through the process of thermal cracking. Though this happens at different depths in different locations around the world, a 'typical' depth for the oil window might be 4–6 km. Note that even if oil is formed at extreme depths, it may be trapped at much shallower depths where it was not formed (the Athabasca Oil Sands is one example). Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

Are these the probalities for life on earth OR the probabilities for the formation of the earth I thought Ibime said there was a Zero probability for the formation of the earth. How did he work that one out?

@Olabowalo,

You have not responded to my other mail about petroleum. Would like to?

Ibime:
yada yada yada - You cannot use probability to try to explain away the reason for the existence of life on earth. I know the usual argument - yes out of all these billions of planets and yada yada yada, by basic probability, it just so happens that earth is condusive for human and animal life - RUBBISH!

ALL OF IT was created. Have you been to any of those 100 billion planets to check if there is life or not before you bring your stupid argument? I believe there is. Our Holy books only tell us about earth. Abi you want a religious text to be a million pages detailing every step in the creation of life before you believe?

Simple logic tells you that everything is made. You cannot see something which is carefully constructed such as a table or chair and question whether somebody made it or not. How much more the planets in their perfect alignment, with all their moons perfectly made to reflect light from the sun and to order the tides of their seas. With all their seasons. Everything is PERFECTLY made - by a superior and intelligent being - infinitely more intelligent than your Hawkins and Dawkins who you follow so closely - having eyes, yet not being able to see - being intelligent, yet a fool in the most basic of things.

As for the earth, the Bible says "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth - The earth was without form and void and the Spirit of the Lord hovered over the Earth"

The bible does not give a chronological order of things. Nor does it tell you the length of time between the 'beginning' and the creation of man. Nor does it tell you if there if there was a previous project here on earth. Yes, I believe God carries out projects - not only on earth but in other galaxies and solar systems. The Bible does not say that man was created immediately after the earth was. Nor does it specifically state that we were the first life forms on earth. God had other projects here before this current one. And yes - that included Dinosaurs.

I am not here to defend the Bible. Even I notice that there are irregularities in the Bible - just as I know that there are many assumptions in the work of Darwin, Hawkins and Dawkins. Infact, there are so many 'assumptions' in the work of Darwin, Hawkins and Dawkins that they would be thrown out of any science class - except in the area of evolution. And that is what you choose to believe?

Let us deal with lemma's, not assumptions - and the only lemma I know is this - Something is not created from nothing. Creation is proof of a creator.

If you choose to argue about any of the major religions, that is a different matter. But do not be so stupid as to argue that there is no God.

My goodness. This amount inanity is beyond belief.

Ibime:
yada yada yada - You cannot use probability to try to explain away the reason for the existence of life on earth. I know the usual argument - yes out of all these billions of planets and yada yada yada, by basic probability, it just so happens that earth is condusive for human and animal life - RUBBISH!

You ureally need to educate yourself. Probability is a rigorous tool in science to determine the likelihood of events. You may not know this but almost every activity has a probabilistic component, where absolute certainty does not exist.

Ibime:
Simple logic tells you that everything is made. You cannot see something which is carefully constructed such as a table or chair and question whether somebody made it or not. How much more the planets in their perfect alignment, with all their moons perfectly made to reflect light from the sun and to order the tides of their seas. With all their seasons. Everything is PERFECTLY made - by a superior and intelligent being - infinitely more intelligent than your Hawkins and Dawkins who you follow so closely - having eyes, yet not being able to see - being intelligent, yet a fool in the most basic of things.

Who said there was no "creation". There certainly was a creation event - the question is was this event natural or supernatural. It has been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BIG BANG created the universe. Our current understanding does not go beyond the Big Bang. The BB created events that later created the matter you see around you today. The total sum energy of the universe is zero. Given that matter and energy are interchangeable (from E=mc2), the matter in the universe was created out of energy. All the matter we have is equally matched by a net negative matter(energy), thus restoring the zero-equilibrium state of the universe. (Victor Stenger)

You fail to appreciate that science is NOT "gospel". The likes of Hawkins, Einstein, etc may discover theories about the universe which fit the observed fact. But that does not make their theories invulnerable to challenge. If a new theory comes along that fits the fact better, the old theory is replaced by the better one. Rarely do you see such corrective measures in the religious dogmas which you favour.

If everything was created perfect as you claim, how do you account for all the evil and disasters that claim millions of lives yearly. Is that perfection to you. An asteroid strikes the earth and kills millions - was that a perfect creation? There are millions of people today who suffer from AIDS, malaria, cancers etc - was that a perfect creation.

Who said we have to be on location of the subject to do science. Obviously it helps if your subject is contained is sitting next to you, but failing that science has developed methods of remote detecting and performing experiments. For instance, it is known that the sun is made primarily of helium and hydrogen, but noone ever venture as far as the sun. We also know that the sun could not sustain life. How do we know that. How do we know that Jupiter could not sustain live? ; that a blackhole would be lethal to life? that a planet made up entirely of nitrogen would not sustain life; that the space above our own planet is lethal to life?

Ibime:
As for the earth, the Bible says "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth - The earth was without form and void and the Spirit of the Lord hovered over the Earth"

The bible does not give a chronological order of things. Nor does it tell you the length of time between the 'beginning' and the creation of man. Nor does it tell you if there if there was a previous project here on earth. Yes, I believe God carries out projects - not only on earth but in other galaxies and solar systems. The Bible does not say that man was created immediately after the earth was. Nor does it specifically state that we were the first life forms on earth. God had other projects here before this current one. And yes - that included Dinosaurs.

You don't even know your bible. What a shame. In fact, I am not surprise. Most christian don't even read the damn book. Just as well, for it might get them thinking, that is if they have any brain cells left unaddled by religious pillaging.

I will have you know - the bible gives a chronological order of the creation in Gen 1 & 2; The on the first day, on the second day, on the third day etc. With god doing different things on different days.

According to Gen 1, your inept god did not make the sun until the fourth day. How would one have days and night if there was no sun until the 4th day. The earth is held in its orbit by the gravitational attraction of the sun. What was holding the earth in place before god created the sun. Plants were created before the sun was created, and we know that plants need the sun to photosynthesise. How did the plant survive before the sun was created. This all sounds by mythology to me and any thinking person.

Even worse, the creation chronology in Gen 1 and 2 and contradiction. Could god not even get the order in which he created the world right in a simple 1000 word document?

Your stuff about God'd other project - where did you get that information from? Is that in the bible? I want chapter and verse.

Ibime:
I am not here to defend the Bible. Even I notice that there are irregularities in the Bible - just as I know that there are many assumptions in the work of Darwin, Hawkins and Dawkins. Infact, there are so many 'assumptions' in the work of Darwin, Hawkins and Dawkins that they would be thrown out of any science class - except in the area of evolution. And that is what you choose to believe?

I would like to see you refutations of their work. Or better still the assumptions you state are in their work. In fact, do you know the meaning of the word assumption? Does an assumption mean a false proposition?

Have you heard of Chromosome no 2. ?
Do you know what the end-permian extinction even is?

Go educate yourself before you expose your ignorance again out in public.