₦airaland Forum

ReubenSandwich:
I thought that the copying and pasting was something that people would want to know about, but it looks like no one else really cares.

It's possibly because most people here, whether theist or atheist, are involved in the same copying and pasting from elsewhere but not caught yet ,or the shame and embarrassment it has caused in certain quarters.

When someone does what brings shame and disgrace to their friends and close family members, they are usually left alone to deal with the situation . Nobody would want to draw attention to the matter due to embarrassment.


So far, all of the persons involved are atheists and the major culprit, Tamaratonye1, is a prominent and very popular atheist rated as one of the most intelligent ,with a delightful stlye of writing that has constantly earned her lots of praises and admiration from nearly everyone on this board. She has been a role model for lots of her followers. You wouldn't know this since from your profile, you recently joined the forum.

But the party is finally over and the deception exposed; it has been copying and pasting of the ideas and turns of phrase of other people from elsewhere. She has never for once written anything of her own. A scammer, that's what she's


This didn't start yesterday. The nonentity has been doing this for years now, and I am sure she is not even female but a male.Most fraudsters here on this forum, in case you don't know, are hiding behind a female moniker to interact with you.

However, all of this should not be interpreted to mean that every atheist here or elsewhere is dishonest. Atheist, not new age atheist , are usually honest and well behaved.

New age atheist, also called evangelical atheist, are not really different from the religious people they take delight in attacking all the time.

They are usually very hateful, very abusive, lie a lot and use all manner of deception and propaganda, just like some theist, to promote and defend their atheistic position.


And it's why it is said that, a theist and an atheist
( new age atheist) are two sides of the same coin. Both are behaving the same way, without being aware of it.

9jahotblog:
The Northern Elders Forum spokesperson Hakeem Baba-Ahmed who coincidentally is the elder brother of the Labour Party Vice Presidential candidate asked Atiku Abubakar the question below verbatim.

"Your Excellency, Northerners are watc

hing you now, in the next few days they will hear or they will see you. Please tell the Northerners why out of all the Presidential candidates they should trust you not anybody else with their votes and their trust and why you are the best candidate that can lead Nigeria and the North through changes. Please speak to the Northerners directly."

That was the question from the Northern elders Forum spokesperson. Remember they organised the event and as such asked the question to know Atiku's plan for the North.

Atiku Abubakar in his smartness answered the above question below, verbatim:

"Well, Mallam Northerner, ohh Madam Northerner(he smiled), I have been in politics now for three decades, (Prof. Ango was whispering something and Atiku picked his statement) for 35 years and I have traversed the whole of this country, I know the whole of this country, I have built bridges across this country. I think what the average Northerner needs is somebody who is from the North and also understands other parts of Nigeria and who has been able to build bridges across the rest of the country. This is what the Northerner needs. He doesn't need a yoruba candidate or an Igbo candidate, this what the Northerner needs. So I believe, I stand before you as a Pan Nigerian of Northern origin. Thank you very much."

Atiku Abubakar in the above clearly reminded the Northern elders that he is although a Northerner but not a candidate of the North because he has built bridges in every part of Nigeria.

Atiku Abubakar reminded the North that his candidature is not just for the North but for Nigeria as a whole!

�������

Children of hate has failed in totality, they shall perish in their hate.... Atiku is coming, no lies, propagandas, stones can stop him.... #AtikuOkowaPDP ✅✅✅

If Atiku was pan Nigerian he should have avoided mentioning any other tribe ( Yoruba and Ibos) and just say the North needs someone no matter where he is from to lead the country.

He knows the average northerner craves power and dominance of the other parts of the country; we own the country mentality.

So telling his northern brothers what they want to hear is a strategy to secure their votes and support.

You have failed in this damage control

Atiku is not pan Nigerian but a chameleon.

ReubenSandwich:
It might be one person doing all the copying and pasting under different names, in both forums.

(later) All the midnight378 posts that I checked from this year are copied and pasted from atheistdiscussion.org, but I can't find out if the ones from last year are copied from somewhere else or not.

I doubt it's a single person.

ReubenSandwich:
I think that it happened more than once. Here's one:

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=7845&pid=376301#pid376301

Thank you for this.

It's that nonentity midnight378.

I can now understand why his replies were wayward. The people whose comments he copied to answer me didn't know that what they were replying has been taken out of the context it was made.

The person replying my comments, the fool copied here, mistook me for a theist

Just imagine the nonsense. I wonder why other atheist on this board have maintained a deafening silence since yesterday when you started exposing this.They can't pretend not to have seen what you have been doing.

Myndd44 and Seun please look into this .Some of the atheists here are turning Nairaland into a circus show.
I know not everyone of them is involved in this. But it seems most are

Dtruthspeaker:
One would say it is obviously him but we know atheist and Truth is like Satan and doing good.

Who is the 'him"



The suspect for now is Tamaratonye1

Visit this thread below and see for yourself
https://www.nairaland.com/7376212/bigotry-christians-bug-feature-neither

ReubenSandwich:
Yes, some of your posts were copied and pasted into that forum, along with some posts from sinequanon, TenQ, Dtruthspeaker, Endtimer, triplechoice, Epositive, and Wilgrea7, but not with your names.

Please could you show me my post that was posted in that forum.

I would like to used it to find out the person here that did that

Templee333:
@ triplechoice
i'm not telling anybody not to be a JW. If u realy want to knw the truth & u feel that they (JW) have it, u can join them. They'll welcome u. As our people say: "experience is the best teacher".

I never told you I want to join JW.. So why you're bothered, if as you say, your intention is not to discourage people from joining.



Not everyone who is following your story is doing so because they want become a JW.

The things you have shared as made it possible to understand the group better and this is good.

When you saw me arguing with Janosky concerning the 70 hours minimum preaching time, why didn't you come in then to make me understand it wasn't for everybody.

You were silemt all through, and not for once coming to clear the air that I misunderstood you In thinking that pioneeringi was for everyone.

Now that another JW has corrected that wrong impression for me ,you have jumped out to tell me what now?

Continue your story and stop imagining what others are making of it.

You shouldn't expect people to swallow everything you are narrating without veryimg if it's true or not.

ReubenSandwich:
I don't know if anyone else really cares, but I feel cheated when I think I'm having a conversation with someone, and then I find out that all they've been doing is copying my posts into another forum, and copying answers from different people in that forum back into this one.

No need to feel bad about it, but to praise yourself for being smart enough to detect the deception.


Kudos for what you have done in exposing the imposters here.

ReubenSandwich:
1000WaysToLive is another one. Four of them now, copying and pasting back and forth between the forums. It’s creating a lot of confusion in both forums because posts from different people in one forum are being copied and pasted under one name in the other. People think they’re debating with one person in their own forum when they’re actually debating with two or more different people in the other.

I think it's the same person fooling himself behind those four monikers.

Ken4Christ:
I did answer your question. Jesus did not take Mary to hell to reveal details that has nothing to do with us. He focused on our present generation and the need for our salvation.

Jesus has the right to keep secrets that does not concern us.

Haven't you read the experience of Apostle Paul where he said that he saw things he was not permitted to say - 2nd Corinthians 12:4.

Are you speaking on behalf of Jesus?

He told you personally he took Mary Baxter to hell because he wanted to focus on the present generation?

Your reply is the usual talk for sheepies in your church who don't ask questions .

Sorry, You don't have the answer to the fate of people who never heard of Jesus.
Don't make excuse for your Jesus. You're not his spokesman.

Anyone who can think straight knows Mary Baxter story is the fabrication of a pathological liar. This has been proven

One wonders how possible is it for spirits or souls to now have flesh, made of matter, that burns in hell ,a place that is supposed to be an immaterial location, and that is ,if such a place even exist at all.

And yes, Satan that's supposed to be receiving punishment is enjoying himself in a part of hell , called , fun centre, torturing souls that God gave him permission to misled.

Mary Baxter middle name, Kathryn, which has been proven to be a fake name she adopted later in life, is what Jesus called her in the story.

So Jesus didn't not know that Kathryn is not her really name and called her that?

Make una dey use una head to think abeg.

Ken4Christ:
Romans 2:12-16
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Read the above passage very well.

Jesus is focused on those who have the opportunity to hear the gospel.

Besides, there was no way he could have revealed to Mary Baxter the reason why every one in hell is there. There are billions of lost souls in hell.

He just used a few examples to warn us to repent.

As expected ,quoting Bible verses that failed to answer the question asked.

Jesus could show Mary Baxter those in hell who rejected him, but not a single person in hell who was judged by the law.

You really want to believe what you want to believe even if it means lying to yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
There is no scripture that says a Christian must make up to certain hours monthly but all JWs must preach and make reports of their ministry, {Luke 10:17} this is the norms that helps us to know those who needs help since Lord Jesus commanded us all to go out and preach! Matthew 28:18-29

The report is what the elders gather to know those becoming INACTIVE in their assigned divine duty and as our brother's keepers each of us has a duty to continue assisting one another to keep up with the Lord's work! Hebrews 12:12

However some may choose to do more in the work so the organization is helping them to set good goals for themselves as we ought to continue considering things that are praiseworthy {Philippians 4:8} that's what brought the issue of 70 hours monthly. Those meeting up with this are known among us as "REGULAR PIONEERS" they are the most respected in our midst, that's what the OP is pretending to be so as to gain attention but Jesus never said being a regular pioneer is the criteria to enter God's Kingdom he only encouraged us to do our utmost which the organization is encouraging us to do with the regular pioneer arrangement.
The parable of the talents is what Jesus used to illustrate this:
Our hearts condition determines how many talents Jesus will give each person, don't forget that time is money so if you choose to spend more time in doing the work of the Lord it means you're capable to let go of worldly things {Matthew 6:19-21} so Jesus will give you more understanding than those who can't let go but what happens to those who stopped the work completely trying to use all their hours to make materials things? well let's leave that in the hands of Jesus Christ the judge! Matthew 25:28-31
Today such ones are gnashing their teeth at those zealously doing the work Jesus will send them to where they belong and that's where their gnashing will end!

Thanks!

Oh. This response has cleared the air

I used to think that the 70 hours is for everyone not knowing it's only for Regular pioneers.
There was a time in the past I wanted to be a JW, but this matter of meeting the target of preaching minimum 70hours monthly was what put me off. Nobody explained this very well to me. But of course, I didn't asked maybe because I relied on what outsiders were saying to conclude.

I assumed at that time it was for all JW, and believe me, most people are not even aware of the true situation of things. They just imagined that you all are expected to meet the same target.

Thanks for the clarification.

ReubenSandwich:
copied and pasted from another forum: https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=7883&pid=378589#pid378589

Hehehehe. Fake people everywhere. Just imagine the nonsense.

Ken4Christ:
They will be judged by the law of God placed in their conscience.

Where in the Christian Bible is it mentioned that people who did not have the opportunity to hear of Jesus would be sent to hell based on the law of God placed in their conscience.

And I hope you know that what you just explained contradicts what is contained in the Mary Baxter's hell fire experience you have been serialising in another thread.

All the people in hell according to that story were people who rejected Jesus. There was not one single account of anybody sent to hell due to their conscience. They all rejected Jesus. That's all.

Our forefathers never knew of Jesus. So why do you think they deserve to be hell.

If you say it's through their conscience, then understand that there has never been anyone who has lived or is still living right now that is hundred percent morally upright.

Your Bible says there's no man without sin and a single sin is enough to make you miss heaven.

So what this means, according to you, is that our forefathers who never heard of Jesus are in burning in hell right now, since it would never have been possible for them to meet the condition of living without sin.

Is this correct?

ReubenSandwich:
Some people might want to know, some posts in this forum are being copied and pasted into another one, and answers to them are being copied and pasted from there to here by Tamaratonye1, Chryssanthe, and Silverseed.

I have always suspected the monikers Tamaratonye1 and Chryssanthe to be the same person.
The writing style is almost, if not, exactly the same

Now this copy and paste matter...... well let me keep my thoughts to myself until later.

Janosky:
Oga, your Bible is not simply about DO's and DON'Ts specified in black and white.


2 chronicles 15:7 & John 6:27 are Bible principles every believer must work with.
That is what it means to handle the word of truth aright.

Shalom.

You're deflecting.

I am not asking you what it means to handle the word of truth or whether the Bible is about Do's or Don't s ,but to show where in the Bible it is mentioned that Christians must achieve a minimum of 70 hours monthly preaching time.

You already admitted it is your own target which you or your organization have set.

So ,what is now the reason for your latest rhetorics?

I already agreed nothing wrong to set a target for what you want to do,but let your members know the truth about the 70 hours, and not using humbug to make it look like something a God has fixed in order to make them obey it That's deception
.

All the Bible verses you listed never talked of any specific preaching hours. Oga just rest. You misinterpreted the op's

Janosky:
2 chronicles 15:7 & John 6:27.
Is your Bible against setting goals and targets?
70 hours minimum monthly is our goal & targets.

The OP is not worshipper of Jehovah our God.
Make him,OP, set him own goal and target to please his own deity.

Shikena!

Better now.

By admitting that 70 hours minimum monthly is your goal and target, it means that it's your organization, not the Bible that has fixed the time.

This is exactly what he wanted to know while he was still a JW.

Why not explain this before now instead of misconstruing his statement and accusing him of not knowing the Bible as if the 70hours is mentioned in it.

There's nothing wrong if your organization has fixed the time, but to find biblical support for it , I mean the 70hours minimum monthly, in the same Bible everyone has access to is certainly disingenuous to say the least.

Janosky:
1.. the scriptures stated ( Acts 14:27 etc) addressed that.

2 & 3, 1 Corinthians 15:58, Matthew 24:14 & John 4:34 are the guiding principles.
Time, personal inconvenience and even resources require working long hours to accomplish the ministry.

The question again ,

Is it mentioned in the Bible that Christians must put in 70hours of preaching or fieldwork monthly ? Yes or no

Long hours is indefinite time . It doesn't answer the question at all.

Janosky:
Based on Bible principles and practice of Jehovah's servants.
Presentation of Reports is a common practice of Jehovah's servants in Templee333's copy of holy Bible.

Go and verify...

Acts 14:27
When they had arrived, and had gathered the assembly together, they reported all the things that God had done with them, and that he had opened a door of faith to the nations.

Acts 15:4
When they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the assembly and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all things that God had done with them.


Acts 21:19
When he had greeted them, he reported one by one the things which God had worked among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Did Moses report to Jehovah his God?

John 17:1-14,Did Jesus Christ report to his God and Father?

The issue with the OP,Templee333 be say na follow follow him be,with shallow knowledge of Bible truth and principles.
He lacks in-depth knowledge or understanding of God's word, John 17:3, coupled with loss of faith which led him to atheism and making pretences in Christendom by teaching kids and adults about the holy bible he doesn't believe in.

I think you have misinterpreted Temple 333

It is not just the reporting alone he complained of, but the hours of reporting which is fixed at minimum of 70hours monthly.

Is there anywhere in the Bible that Christians must preach 70 hours monthly?

That's the question he has asked.

GraceAndPeace:
My dear, no one is trying to condemn you or anyone, in short its because we love all men that we present the truth to them.

Its unfortunate that your Father died an atheist. But who knows, he may have changed his mind before passing on. You can't say how far he went with his beliefs.

Truly I agree with the author of this book that there are indeed Atheists for moral reasons and for other reasons. Its possible that all the atheists you know belong in the later category but the fact that there are immoral atheists cannot be overlooked also.

Many people including atheists are hateful, vengeful, malicious, dubious, perverts, etc And judging by appearance may not look so at all.
But one thing that would always bring their sins to the surface is their conscience. No matter how hidden ours sins are, the conscience would always speak them out.

Some people appease the voice of their conscience by performing religious dead works that have no spiritual foundation.

Others(mostly atheists) handle it by questioning the authority of the conscience, which is God.

Someone may appear good and still not be good. You can only see their outward behaviours/modifications. And you think you know them enough?

Why are you deflecting? You asked a question and I responded by letting you know that it's not true that 99% of atheists are what you think. Instead of taking it from there, you want to run away.This is not good enough and it shows you want to engage in deceptive arguments.


The person who died foolishly believing that your religious God exist is the one who has died unfortunately. My father never died unfortunately. You say you are young and lack experience. So I will forgive for showing lack of respect for the dead.

Maybe when you grow up you would know better and dump your religion after knowing the lies in it.

At the moment, you're speaking from the position of indoctrination.You have been indoctrinated to believe that your rellgion is the only true one and unfortunately an indoctrinated religious person lacks the awareness to know that they have been brainwashed. So whatever I say would not make sense to you. That's how your brain works under indoctrination.

Muslims believe Christians don't know the truth and it's also due to their own indoctrination.

Think about this and start to question your beliefs to be sure that what you believe is actually the correct thing before trying to give it to others.

You said someone may appear good but may not be really good . Why don't you also consider it the other way round. Someone may appear bad to you ,but may not be really bad; The atheist you consider bad may not really bad ,but your religious beliefs has caused you to regard them as bad people.

GraceAndPeace:
[u]People may disbelieve God, but they cannot deny there is morality. Let me tell you frankly, that though I am still young, at least ninety-nine out of a hundred atheists are questionable in respect of
their personal morality. I have yet to meet an atheist who lives somewhat morally. There are some in the audience who are older
than I. May I ask you if you have ever met an atheist whose morality is even slightly dependable? Whether asking fellow students,
business associates, or friends, the atheists whom I have met are all morally corrupt; s

You have used your personal experience to generalise that 99,,% of atheists are immoral. You're forgiving since you admit you're still young .Your experience is not enough.

My late father was an atheist. He never lived his life recklessly and was known to be a very honest person.


His friends who were atheist too that I know, also displayed the same character traits; they were honest people who also never lived life recklessly.

Most of the atheist I have met offline try to live an honest life

They don't look for trouble or brother you with their non belief. It is only here on Nairaland you see such things and it's because they want you to consider what you believe since they were once like you.

Christians are usually shocked to find out that the good and honest man they have known and doing business with doesn't believe in God. The next thing they say after the shocked has died down, usually goes like this,, "ah you're too good not to believe in God. You're supposed to be a Christian." " No no no. God will arrest you very soon" and blah blah blah


The idea that people are atheists because they want to live anyhow is simply not true.
Most atheists are people who detest lies. They don't want you to lie to them and they try not to lie to you .

And it's exactly for this reason they reject your religion that is based on lies and not because they want to live an immoral life or the ridiculous idea that they don't have God in them.


Don't get me wrong. There are atheists whose behaviour leaves much to be desired. Those ones have fallen for the pitfall of thinking that atheism gives one the licence to live life anyhow ..It has nothing to do with their non belief but how they have personally chosen to live their lifes.

Instead of focusing on atheist,you should be more worried for your follow Christians who don't follow strictly the moral code of your religion. They're lots of Christians who can't be regarded as Christians.

Those ones, don't they accept God exist? Or maybe they know your God doesn't exist and since they lack the courage to break away from the religion, they remain and pretend.

FYI, I am not an atheist. You can describe me as irreligious or agnostic.I don't attach any label to my self.

Who was Mary Kathryn?
She was proven to be a lunatic and fraud when she was alive.
Her book has been "fingered" as one of the causes of RST, Religious stress Trauma, experienced by some Christians who have read it and believed her fiction.

Here below would help you to know about the person whose reality distorting book the Op is serialising.
Later, I would come back to explain in more detail how the book has destroyed minds and still doing so.
Expect more.https://medium.com/belover/the-hell-hustler-654de600fff5

tctrills:
The other time, you spoke about Adam and Eve's "disobedience" I agree with you, they disobeyed God. But remember, they did not have the knowledge of Good and evil.
But it was not a sin because they did not have knowledge. Below is the bible's definition of sin; James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.
Without the knowledge of Good and bad, there can be no sin.

Disobey which God? In a story that's an allegory?

It's clear you don't even understand anything I have said and just replying nonsense.
Take a break. It would do you some good

tctrills:
I understand how you feel but it doesn't change anything.
Humanity had 2 options.
1. Remain in the garden forever, never to die and be forever innocent.
2. Leave the garden, overcome sin and become like God.
I would choose option 2 what about you?

The above is not the reason for my interactions with you, and you know it



We don't need Jesus for anything since the story is an allegory. That has been my argument with you and not because I don't understand the real meaning encoded in the story.

So far you have failed to convince anyone why your Jesus should sacrifice himself for what happened in a fictional story.

I am going to repeat this again, all the characters in the story are symbolic, meaning no real God, Adam and Eve or talking snake Even the garden was not a real place. It's just the product of the imagination of those who wrote the story.

So, talking of the story as if it's something that actually happened is exposing your level of understanding.


Enjoy yourself.

tctrills:
The knowledge of sin and also good came from the garden. It would be foolish to stick to the garden. The Garden was only a part of the plan. God's entire plan was to make man like him. The Garden played a major role in the plan but it would have been a curse and a failure without other aspects of the plan.

God's plan began with Jesus Christ, not Adam. Jesus Christ is the center of the plan. Adam played a vital role. Through him, the knowledge of good and evil came into the world. Also through him, man became mortal and we could go through the trials of mortality. These would not have been possible in the garden. I hope you understand it now.

Before you ask me if I understand, read again the gibberish you wrote up there ,and ask yourself if it really make any sense to you.

You just typed anything that came to your head with the hope it would make sense.It has not. It just a series of disjointed and unrelated statements.

If you don't want to answer one by one to each of the points I raised in my last reply, then , don't bother anymore.

You have failed woefully to prove your claim of how God planned what happened in the garden to pave way for Jesus coming later.

tctrills:
You are now making my point. You said,
"In the world that we live in, nothing can be known or understood without its opposite. Without evil, we wouldn't appreciate good or know what is good, and without good, we can't make sense of what is evil."
Do you now see why eating the fruit was not a curse? Man could understand good and evil and from then we could resist evil. The only way we can become like God is if we overcome evil. In the Garden, Adam and Eve could not overcome evil.

Who is making your point? You just demonstrated that you have not been reading very well any of my replies. I have maintained that what happened in the garden was not a curse but a blessing. Christianity which you subscribe to doesn't regard it as blessing, but the downfall of man. You see why I said you're not able to comprehend simple things and you say I was rude. If you insist that Christian theology says it is blessing, then, please mention the name of your Christian group so one can confirm you're telling it as it is. You're misconstruing my statements everytime to create confusion.

Yes, Jesus was needed to remove sin. Let me quote a verse to help you with your confusion.

Just imagine. Clear you own confusion first. You're certainly confused as you want to deceive yourself by jumping from Jesus coming to remove evil of the forbidden fruit to now removing sin of the world. Where did the sin came from according to Christianity? Stick to what happened in the garden of Eden to prove why Christ has to die for any sin.You're running away from that to start quoting unrelated scripture. You claimed that everything that happened in the garden was for Jesus to die later. Focus on that

John 1:29. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

How does this verse relate with what happened in the garden of Eden or do you now accept Adam and Eve committed the original sin by disobeying God. Hope you can now understand why I say you're confused .If a Muslim quotes something from the Quran would you accept it as truth? Certainly not. The Bible verse is church theology it is not truth but to you. And what is the sin of the world?

The role of Christ was to take away the sins of all those who surrender to him.

So. nothing to do with the garden of Eden then? And what is sin?

Again I would never mention my group to you. I reserve the right to that and if you are not satisfied sorry. I don't need to know what you worship to discuss with you. If you feel you have a duty to know where I worship before discussing with me, I can't help you, sir.

I have mentioned the reason I want to know. You dare not mention it as you know you would be exposed for saying things that are contrary to what is preached in your church. That's the truth. You're mixing to opposing viewpoints to rationalise Christianity's wrong interpretation of the Genesis account . Instead of admitting that it is your own personal interpretation, which is commendable, you're trying desperately to tie it to church theology. The interpretation that Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit is blessing is not Church theology. Others know that but not you. I think I have wasted too much time with you. You're have been running from pillar to post trying to cover up for what you started.

tctrills:
Christian doctrine is a very broad concept. At no time have Christians of all denominations agreed on a particular doctrine. You would have known if you were a Christian.

Now let's go to the few things you pointed out. You said;
If what happened in the garden was planned by God so that they eat the fruit and become wise, then the later sacrifice of Jesus is meaningless and not needed.

How do you mean? God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they eat the fruit, they obviously needed someone to save them from death.
Secondly, the fruit was called the fruit of knowledge of good and bad for a reason. True it gave man the Knowledge of good, but it also gave him the knowledge of evil. Christ came to take away the sins of the world. Do you get it now?

Oga, I say let me know the denomination or Christian group you belong to.

You're mixing to opposing viewpoints to interpret the Genesis account. I told you this is deception as a Christian..

.Your answer to the op which I responded to, says that God planned everything so that he could later send his son to die as sacrifice. This is contrary to Christian theology that everyone is familiar with.

In Christianity, the interpretation is that the first two couples disobeyed God and this led to their alienation. To reconcile the descendant of Adam and Eve back to God ,a Jesus sacrifice must happen, if not the burden of original sin remains.

But your Gnostic interpretation is that God wanted them to eat the fruit so their eyes can be opened so they know evil from good and become wise.

Now that they did what God wanted, why do we still need Jesus to die for anything.

You said to remove evil. But this is where you have failed because you don't understand what it means to have the knowledge of good and evil.

In the world that we live in, nothing can be known or understood without its opposite. Without evil we wouldn't appreciate good or know what is good, and without good we can't make sense of what is evil.

Adam and Eve did not know they were naked because they had no knowledge of what is good and evil, but after eating the forbidden fruit their eyes became open to know they were naked.
Hope you get it now? So stop saying Jesus was needed to remove evil. If that were to happen, then it means we would all go back to the pre-Adamic era, ignorance. Naked not Knowing we are naked.
Do you want that to happen? I don't think so.

Evil can't be removed from the world. It is as simple as that. Jesus didn't come to remove evil. That idea is Christian theology and not truth.

Please don't fail in your reply to mention the Christian group you belong to ,so one can be sure you're telling the truth as it is preached there, if not ,it is better the conversation is discontinued.

Tamaratonye1:
Concerning the "Something from Nothing" canard, this is a much better article to refer to: 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from nothing

Now, I should have clarified this earlier when I posted the initial article. Please make no mistake, the claim that something emerged from "nothing" isn't simply misleading, it's as wrong as it's possible to get. What's going on here is called the Schwinger Effect, and it involves the production of electron-positron pairs in absurdly powerful electrical fields. Those are electrical fields so intense that we simply can't produce them. You'd need something like a neutron star for those types of energies. The particles being produced are NOT being produced from nothing. The energy needed to create them is drawn from the electrical field in accordance with Einstein's famous equation. So cool beans, energy is being converted into matter, but something is not coming from nothing.

In this case the researchers didn't even do that. They didn't produce particle-antiparticle pairs because, as mentioned, that takes Earth-shattering amounts of energy. Literally. What they observed was the spontaneous production of electrons and electron holes in doped graphene sheets under electrical fields that, while intense, can be generated relatively simply in most physics labs. They didn't actually produce any particles, they just induced quantum tunnelling of electrons between adjacent graphene sheets. That isn't to belittle their work. It's an elegant analogue of the Schwinger effect using practical energies that must have taken some serious skull sweat to figure out. Impressive, given that it was predicted that we'd never observe this effect at all.

By contrast, the pop sci writers who have misinterpreted and misrepresented their work should have their teeth filed off on concrete for their crimes against rational thought, basic decency, and scientific literacy in general.

Good you came yourself to correct the wrong impression created by the article.
I took my time to read it over and over again to be sure I wasn't missing something.

And each time I finished reading, I kept asking myself how did matter came from nothing in the experiment?. Nothing like that.

From what I understand, the experiment was to demonstrate that matter is coalesced energy. That's is surely not something from nothing

The idea that matter is coalesced energy is nothing new. Those who hold on to the tenets of higher consciousness, true spirituality, not rellgion, have always insisted that matter is coalesced spirit, energy.

So nothing new here. But good scientist are now attempting to demonstrate this so we can have a better understanding of how the solid universe was "created" from "nothing" , energy.

Arrowss:
Even though I did not quote the bible or mentioned church? Or even denomination, or talk about anyone one as man of God or woman of God, yet you are attacking, relax, stop attacking, sheath your sword, can't you explain without attacking? Who mentioned Sunday school here, or who has said no one should give opinion, may be you need to read my comment open mindedly. Well, I did not run away from not explaining what evil or Good is or wrong or right, I left the vacuum to be filled, anyway, I'll fill it. THERE IS NOTHING AS EVIL OR GOOD, OR BAD OR GOOD, THATS WHY WHEN THERE IS NO LAW, THERE CANT BE OFFENCE OR CRIME OR ANYTHING AS SIN, BUT AS SOON AS THERE IS LAW, THEN WE CAN START TO TALK OF WHAT AND WHAT SHOULD WE AGREE TO BE OFFENCE OR CRIME, WHAT WE WANT TO AGREE TO BE GOOD OR BAD, AND AS SUCH, THEY HAVE THEIR EXPIRY DATES, SINCE WHAT WE AGREED TO BE GOOD TODAY MAY BECOME WHAT WE LATER AGREE TO BECOME BAD TOMORROW, WHAT WE NAME BAD HERE MAY BE THE SAME THING OTHERS NAMED GOOD ELSWHERE, thats the reason I said there is nothing as good or bad or right or wrong. Now to God, its same with God, what he calls bad is bad, what he calls good is good, at any point in time, at that moment, thats why he said we should leave judgement for him. Infact we all operate on God's feelings, emotions, thoughts, That's why God is not bound by any rule or law, whatever God wishes is what God does. What ever God says is good is good, is bad is bad. Both have life spans and are subjected to change at any given time.

SO LIKE I SAID, ONE MAY SAY GOD KNWS BAD IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AND GOD ALLOWED IT. MY PREVIOUS EXPLAINATION AND THIS ONE HAS CLEARED THE AIR FROM MY SIDE HERE. MY SUBMISSION.

Sorry. All you said is round about talk. Nobody can make sense of it.

If you think I am attacking you, then just ignore me.

tctrills:
Yes, I have been called names by the JW. The last guy to do so, I reminded him that it was in his right to call me anything.
Now to the more serious matters. The death of Jesus was many centuries after Adam but it was ordained ever before Adam ate the fruit. It was not an after thought of God. It was always the plan

Oga mention the name of your church or Christian group. That's what I am interesting in for now .

If you don't want to do that, then stop calling yourself a Christian. Don't hide . I am not asking for your name.

I want to know the real Identity of the person I am arguing with to determine if you're actually presenting what your church preaches and not your own personal interpretation which I already accepted is the proper way to view things.

Christian doctrine says what happened in the garden is disobedience; the original sin that resulted in curses and condemnation.. For this a sacrifice is needed to put things right.

As a Christian,y ou're mixing two opposing viewpoint by saying it is a blessing as against what church doctrine says. You want to eat your cake and have it too? Not possible. Choose one

Concerning Jesus, you still don't get it and here is your confusion. If what happened in the garden was planned by God so that they eat the fruit and become wise, then the later sacrifice of Jesus is meaningless and not needed.

You don't punish somebody for doing the right thing you actually wanted and then later insisting a blood sacrifice must be made before you let go of the punishment. It doesn't make sense.

Your church indoctrination is why you still talk of compulsory sacrifice of Jesus after admitting that what happened in the garden is for the good of humanity. Fear is why you're not bold enough to admit church doctrine concerning the allegory doesn't make sense.

tctrills:
I am not mixing any view. I am just telling you the truth.

Don't agree you're telling the truth

Again, there are over 10000 churches. Which church interpretation are you talking about?
The Catholic interpretation is different from the Jehovah witness, which is different from the Adventist, which is also different for the Mormons, this is again different from the church of Christ.

After mentioning other denominations or Christian groups, you failed to identify with any so as to make it easy to verify if you're telling the truth of what your church preaches. If you're not hiding something, I dare you to mention your own church so any of your fellow members who might be following can verify that all you say here is the same as what they tell them in church about the story.
You have been called a fake Christian by a Jehovah witness , Maximus, who is not ashamed to identify with his organization. Prove you're not hiding something by announcing your own denomination. I dare you to do that in your next reply if not this would be the last time reply you.

The death of Jesus is what makes it a blessing. Let me ask you, what has man lost due to the fall?

You're certainly confused. If one were to accept the story is not an allegory, the death of Jesus centuries later can't turn it into a blessing. You don't require the spilling of blood of anyone to understand what a blessing is. You're not thinking this at all, but just preaching church doctrine disguised as truth.

tctrills:
You have a lot to understand
Adam and Eve's fall brought far more blessings than your so-called curse. Their fall brought about Jesus Christ, resurrection, and Immortality for all mankind. We are blessed with the knowledge of Good and evil just like God. We also have the ability to become perfect like God thanks to the fall.
So while both of us can keep making fun of each others logic, ask yourself, wether all these blessings I have outlined do not outweigh your perceived curse.

You're mixing two opposing view points ,gnosticism and Christianity to interpret the Genesis account in order to answer the op. Nothing wrong with that.

But the problem is that you want to make it seem as if the church interprets it the same way. This is deceptionon your part.

Can you preach that Adam and Eve disobedience( that's what church doctrine says) is a blessing in any Sunday school or from any pulpit? You have refused to answer that each time I ask.



I already said the story is an allegory and it has nothing to do with the so called "original sin" that would need a sacrifice to erase.

If you interpret the story as a blessing for humanity, I agree also, then I ask you where is the sense in Jesus coming to die again for what is already a blessing for humanity so that God can forgive what?

Why not just own up to what you're trying to do? You can deceive others but not somebody like me.

If you feel the church well known interpretation of the Genesis account doesn't make sense, why don't you do the needful by accepting you have outgrown the religion instead of looking for a way to rationalise things so you continue to believe.

This is exactly where you are right now.