₦airaland Forum

A001:
Trash. I see you've personal issues with Otem. Lols

Better get your brain checked. Your imaginative power is working abnormally hence you won't be spewing tripe like "your lord".

I shouldn't waste my time discussing with someone that can't understand simple expressions in English, but is busy making different fictional things up in his small mind.

Asking me silly questions when anyone with an average IQ can find the answers to the questions in the posts he quoted.

Talk about being mischievous and silly.

Hope you settle whatever issues you have with the OP. That's your problem to deal with.

Between the two of us who should have their brains checked.

You that is so gullible to believe and follow sheepishly someone who claim to know of a spiritual cage where the imaginary gods of Allah and Jehovah locked up is saying what?

I am sure you literarily believed that.

I don't blame you . You can freely insult me hiding under a faceless forum .Something you dare not do face to face.
I never insulted any during the course of our argument and not even you before now. So why the insults and name calling?

You seem a troubled soul.

It's just a matter of time. when the nonsense Otem has placed in your head starts to aberrate you, then I hope you have someone who would advise you to have your head checked at that time. This not a treat. It is what I have seen happen to other people before .

You're crying more than the bereaved because it is obvious he has had your head done in.

Just a matter of time. Fill your head with nonsense and you get nonsense in return.

I don't have any personal Issues with Otem. But he should realize he can make mistakes and misled gullible people like you.

A001:
You don't read to comprehend but to argue.

Tell me where I told you that the I believe the power of coincidence exists in nature. The problem is you've a poor understanding of English.

Read the statement you quoted again. I stated my stance clearly. No need to rehash it.

After taking my arguments out of its context, how are you expected to understand me.

Go back and read from where we started.

Your lord says there's something called the power of coincidence which is responsible for miraculous occurrence. I disagree with him because there is no evidence of such power.

I have been holding on to that position from day one.

If you have not seen that ,then thats your problem.

I have been asking him what is the difference between saying the power of god is responsible and not the power of coincidence , he has refused to answer but to twist and turn to confuse himself.

If he had said those occurrence are by accident or coincidental, then I would not be arguing with him.

I dont know English according to you but a simple word you can't fully comprehend its meaning
Big shame

Modified. I even asked him if he is using the expression in the figurative sense, he refuse to answer. So what do you even understand

OtemAtum:
So practising religion is now a concrete now abi

Coming from someone who claims to understand English language.
Big shame.

is it any surprise you don't understand what the word coincidence means.

"Practising" is not a verb but a concrete noun according to you?

Big shame

A001:
Yes, he said there's a certain kind of power in nature called the power of coincidence, according to his own philosophy, which makes wishes, prayers become granted.

Now, where did he tell you that people need to chant a so-called expression containing "power of coincidence" to make their wish become a reality?

You're merely wasting your time on a simple issue.

Any observant person knows coincidences happen a number of times in life. But there's no concrete scientific evidence why that occurs.

While Otem's model or explanation looks interesting, whether it's valid or not remains to be proven scientifically to be called a statement of fact.

Why are you getting worked up over a trivial issue to the extent of making different things up that only exist in your imagination just to show you're right?

And you believe such a power exist?

Where is the prove and how did you and himself demonstrate this power?

After talking about the power of coincidence which you both claim exist in nature, you then depart from that to talk of coincidence in the ordinary sense which everyone understands and want to make it appear you're saying the same time.

Both of you don't understand how the word coincidence is used. Hence your confusion

Is that not evidence of confused thinking?

Modified . The reason I asked if the power should be chanted is when he said words can be used like an hypnotist to create effect. Please go back and read and don't be lazy

A001:
You're very confused and merely saying nonsense.

Read your post below again. You'll find your answer in it.

See what I mean?

Instead to take time to follow our conversation from the beginning to understand what lead to that you just jumped in at the middle.

Besides ,those where questions he was expected to answer since he stupidity agreed that the expression contains power.

It was why asked those questions . So keep your insults

Go back and read what lead to that reply

A001:
You don't even understand your own argument.

I don't look up to anyone but myself. You're very confused, merely making different things up that only exist in your imagination, not in reality.

Mention where the OP told anyone to chant an expression containing "power of coincidence" to make their wish become a reality.

Lols. You don't even understand many things you're posting on.

And show me where I said the op said anyone should repeat anything

A001:
Lols. Otem even get time dey waste for this kind of argument.

Where did the OP told anyone to be repeating any expression containing "coincidence" to manifest any wish?

Lols. You just read some silly remarks on Nl and laugh...

Comprehending simple statements can really be hard for some.

All these petty arguments are better avoided.

If you know anything at all show me in my arguments where I said the op contains anyone repeating any expression to create effect.

A001:
Lols. Otem even get time dey waste for this kind of argument.

Where did the OP told anyone to be repeating any expression containing "coincidence" to manifest any wish?

Lols. You just read some silly remarks on Nl and laugh...

Comprehending simple statements can really be hard for some.

All these petty arguments are better avoided.

Did you follow the conversation at all to know what lead to that?

Next time make sure understand what you're commenting on.
Your friend is confused about what he thinks he knows.

You look up to him and so don't expect you to know any better

OtemAtum:
Is practice a concrete now?
Practice- abstract noun
Religiob- abstract now

So how will you call PRACTICE OF RELIGION concrete

Just look at what you did up there

Why separating the words in the phrase "practice of religion"

So you dont know that the meaning of a word is determined by the context in which it is used?

OtemAtum:
So now you've agreed with me that the Power of 'God' supposedly used by the pastors is actually the 'Power of Coincidence'. Now we are saying the same thing.

I never agree with you.
I am afraid you're confused.

You don't understand anything about what I just explained. Nothing in your reply shows you understand a single thing.

Provide evidence that people use the energy which comes from repeating the expression " power of coincidence" to create miracles or take the nonsense elsewhere.

Was this your initial position? I believe you just learnt something from me along the way and want to use it to deceive yourself not me

How do you know or determine that the energy which can be released from that expression when repeated has the power to create miracles.

Do you know of anyone that's actually doing that?

Have you tried it yourself?

If anyone tries it right now would it work?

You're talking nonsense and it is a shame

I never wanted the discussion to degenerate into this but just can't help it now

You really are a huge disappointment. Never expected this sort of deception from you.

Good day and have a swell time in convincing your gullible followers that there is something like the power of coincidence which people use like any other valid source of power out there to create effect deliberately.

Modified. So you mean the football results of Chelsea and Liverpool you posted was as a result of someone in the English FA pronouncing the expression " power of coincidence" over and over again?

Or maybe you did. Please tell us

OtemAtum:
Is practice a concrete now?
Practice- abstract noun
Religiob- abstract now

So how will you call PRACTICE OF RELIGION concrete

When people practice religion we can see the physical activity they engage in . praying, singing of worship songs, attending churches or mosque and so on.

So what are you talking about?

OtemAtum:
If mere words don't have power, what happen to hypnotism, religious texts used to make people submissive, placebo, etc? There's nothing that doesn't have potential power, no matter how little they could be.

You're deflecting now by bringing something that's not related to our discussion.

Words have power but only when pronounced as sounds. The vibratory rate of the sound produced is what gives power.

The expression "power of coincidence" contains a combination of words which when pronounced repeatedly will certainly results in a particular vibratory rate that will give off energy.

But are you now saying that pastors and witch doctors who produced what is refer to as miracles pronounce the expression "power of coincidence" over and over again just like an hypnotist, to create effect?

You can only make me agree with you if you can provide evidence that's what they are doing by repeating that expression

OtemAtum:
@Triplechoice, you said that abstract words don't have power, but here is what justme have to day about religion(abstract word)



So do you agree that religion is a POWERFUL TOOL OF ENSLAVEMENT, even though it is something abstract?

How is the practice of religion abstract?

OtemAtum:
@TripleChoice, below is the definition of POWER. Now can you tell me if this power is not what pastors, alfas and herbalists ride on? I mean sometimes, pastors, alfas and herbalists say some things and it happened by coincidence. Because of this coincidences, they influence their followers and make then believe that they did it by their own powers(check the second definition of power in the dictionary below). Now tell me if there is no power of coincidence. Concerning the results below, assuming somebody had said perchance that Liverpool and Chelsea will have similar results and it happened so, if the person is a pastor, Alfa, imam or herbalists, don't you think he would have influenced the minds of his followers by the power of coincidence? That's what I am talking about.

Any kind of power comes from something.

Unless you're using the word in a figurative sense, coincidence is not an object that can produce any power.

There's a plausible explanation for the phenomenon displayed by pastors and witch doctors. The power of coincidence doesn't explain it all as there is no such power.

If a pastor says the power of God is behind what he does and you say ,no, that it is the power of coincidence, what is the difference?

Are both of you not thinking the same way and saying the same thing?

Yes, I think you're

OtemAtum:
There is nothing on Earth that doesn't have power. Even a leaf hanging up on a tree has potential energy. If the leaf start to fall, then you can measure its power with physics. It also contains Chemical power in chemistry. When coincidence makes you think that you have achieved things by your own power, then that's the power of coincidence. Upon what luck do you think herbalists and pastors ride? Upon the power of coincidence of course. Now back to Luwabi and myself using his quote, the op was assuming Luwabi as the authority, probably because I used his quote somewhere, but I was letting him know that using his quote doesn't mean that he is an authority. I may decide to use the quote of Abraham Lincoln, it doesn't mean that I buy 100% into his philosophy. It may just be that I only agree to 1% of his philosophy and I can actually quote that 1% as many times as I like.

It is true that everything on earth has energy but it is not true that mere words which are not tangible materials have energy.

The word coincidence merely represent an abstract idea. It is not the same with the word , leaf , which is used to name a visible object in nature.
While we can measure for the power of falling leaf which we can see we can't do so for coincidence because it merely represents an abstract idea which has no one to one correspondence with any physical object in nature.

You don't seem to have a full understanding of the word coincidence and it is a problem.

Coincidence does not cause anything. The word is only use when we can't find any apparent cause for any strange happenings or pattern in nature.

HellVictorinho:
It involves money I can't afford


Well

I am yet to receive my wages for this month

The school where I work doesn't pay early

Perhaps next week Monday -Friday


Can you help me with anything that I can manage for now?

The link I shared was just to enlightened you on what it's required .

You don't need to pay anything to anyone before getting started There are free resources on the net and other people who can help for free.

You just need to search. Don't allow the thoughts of no money limit you.

Money is an illusion. Aoart from physical cash,there are other means by which you get what you want.

What you require right now is the will to start.

Help will surely come

HellVictorinho:
Well,

If you can determine how I can join Amazon,

I will be grateful.

I honestly cannot tell you how exactly to go about it for now. But there are some people on this forum who can guide you better.

Try the literature section of this forum. I believe you can find help from those who are already into it . You can also do a google research.

It is something I want to venture into myself later but not started due to other engagements.

This can help
https://www.nairaland.com/5272773/how-invest-amazon-kindle-publishing

HellVictorinho:
Please

Forget that guy who claims knowledge and understanding in vain

I have been trying to reach you since you promised to reach out to me

It is not something I want to annouce publicly but I believe you know why. I already helped once but later realise that it won't be for your greater good if I continue.


You are in a position to help yourself far better than I anyone can but you don't know it. This is true and I truly mean it.

Look for anything to do within your current location . It doesn't matter the kind of Job. It will help to increase your self esteem and stand you in better stead to achieve your dreams or make your life a success

I know this is a faceless forum, but it is embarrassing seeing you constantly begging for handouts from people you can do better than. I think a lot of people here, from what I have observed, don't regard you much ,hence they refuse to help

You can help yourself.

You have what it takes. Without a university education ,you write very well. You writings are logical, incisive and calculative. I mean your writing style and not the content.
If you can add some creativity or learn creative writing,, it possible to write books you can sell on Amazon or elsewhere that would profit you and help uplift yourself from your current level.
Please think about this.

I may contact you later but not a guarantee I would.

You can help yourself. I do mean sincerely mean it

A001:
Personally, I don't know.

But Otem gave a plausible explanation or model that's based on the concept of interference in Physics. He says Urim (defined above) is an aspect or part of nature, responsible for causality as explained in the excerpt above.

(He explained how it works in the book. I don't have the time to go into the details here.)

Just like each of the higher beings or gods and goddesses of religions is an aspect of nature responsible for different physical manifestations on earth.

Gaia is a goddess or an aspect of nature that's the consciousness of planet Earth and she's also called Mother Earth, according to Otem.

Otem claims he's an aspect of nature responsible for compiling unlimited histories of the universe from billions of years back.

He gave further details how the power of coincidence via Urim works physically and scientifically in the book.

While I see the model as a great one and workable, I honestly don't understand the whole concept unless I see or discover this Urim he talked about.

Seeing is believing.

When you assume someone is of superior intelligence or is infallible you're bound to defend anything they say even when it doesn't make any sense.

Nobody knows it all. Anyone at some point can make a mistake or come up with something that he or she thinks is true.. I am no exception. I make mistakes too.

If you regard anyone as infallible or inspired by god ,you stand the risk of being misled.

You have to question everything you're told or read.

This is not to disparage Otem in anyway . His book has stories which teaches some salient truth about life. And that is a fact

I am amazed by what he has put up.

But hey, one just cannot swallow everything

I insist there's nothing like the power of coincidence.
Otem has simply made that up ..

Coincidence simply means an occurrence with no apparent cause.

But he is telling us that coincidence has power to cause something

A001:
I gave you a simple and clear definition from the dictionary. Didn't you see it?

So how does corresponding in nature means causative

A001:
From a standard dictionary, coincidence is "the fact of corresponding in nature or in time of occurrence."

A common example of coincidences is when you wish to get two specific figures on two dice in a game of Ludo to defeat your opponent, say your wish (or just think about it), and the wish (the figures) manifests.

Another common example is when there's a power outage, and you say a wish or pray for power supply to be restored and your room lights up immediately.

Those are coincidental, random or stochastic events.

Nothing spiritual or supernatural. It's just natural or physical.

I asked for a Simple definition of the word coincidence.

Please define it for me so I know we have the same understanding of it.

I don't need your explanation at this stage

A001:
I don't know the power personally. But I observe coincidence in my daily activities.

According to Otem, Urim or the Universal Consciousness of Wishes, mentioned in the excerpt, is responsible for the power of coincidence.

Urim is an aspect of God Almighty, which according to him is the Total of Existence or a great source of energy, just like all gods and goddesses worshipped in religions, humans, animals, microbes, etc. are all aspects of God as defined in the Otemic or Atomic philosophy.

My own view about God is agnostic.

Please define the word coincidence

A001:
I don't think Otem said the power of coincidence is causal. It appears you've not read his book because he gave a detailed explanation there.

Coincidences happen a lot in our daily activities. It's just a natural phenomenon, which is random, not the cause of the occurrences themselves.

Here's an excerpt from the book explaining how coincidences work as narrated by Atum, the chief source of the content of the book:

"I began to think of studying the wishes of the homos. I made a device to detect waves of wishes.

Then I saw the waves of my wishes as they travelled away from me. They had different colours.

The waves had two strange colours which are not among the five hundred different types of basic colours we used to know.

I named the colours Duito and Jibret. The colours diffused into space at a very fast rate.

Wishes waves travel to locate
the waves which Urim, the universal consciousness of wishes radiates.

Most of the time, the waves sent by an individual die off before making contact with the waves raditated by Urim.

When the wishes sent out by an individual meets the the waves of Urim, the wishes become granted. This is called coincidence. I studied the power of coincidence for twelve years.

I also saw that only very strong wishes have a chance of coinciding with the waves of Urim. I made a device to study the intensities of wishes.

I discovered also that wishes which had coincided with the waves of urims may take long to become a reality.

They may even take as long as a millennium or even a billion years to come to pass even after coinciding with the waves of Urim.

I also discovered that almost all the wish-waves of the universe did not stay long enough to coincide with the waves of Urim.

I sent two wish-waves to the universe and tracked the waves with my devices.

The first wish was to make Aferk become free from mind slavery. The second was to turn all my siblings who have bad intentions for the homos into good gods.

I monitored the two wave￾wishes. The first one coincided with the wave of Urim after five years, but the other wave faded off after seven years without
coinciding with the wave of Urim.

I also discovered how wish￾waves cancelled out themselves. I saw that almost ninety-nine out of a hundred waves sent into the universe cancelled out each other. " — Book of Universal History, pg. 1041

You may get the book from the author to learn more. " Homos" means humans as the narrator (Atum) is a creator of early humans and animals on this planet, according to the literature.

This is one of the many parts of the book that are so profound and great that I can't just regard the literature as a work of fiction.

The entities (higher beings or gods according to religious people) sending these revelations to Otem look so advanced and have discovered and measured thousands of different types of waves that today's scientists are yet to discover, including consciousness (soul), which is also a kind of waves.

Otem talked about the power of coincidence.

What is the meaning of power?

Do you know?

OtemAtum:
You didn't see read the BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY. If you did, you won't submerge yourself in the philosophy of anyone on earth to the extent of saying that the story of Someone explained the reason for something. The story of Luwabi is written by Luwabi and it is not supposed to explain 100% life occurrences. Also the belief of Luwabi and the belief of Nemonis in the same book of Universal History are not supposed to go along with each other because the BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY is not a book that is fighting towards humanity holding on to a particular belief, but it is a book which only gives life occurrences as they happened.

Several times in the past you have used that same story as explanation .

What ever you say, there is nothing like the power of coincidence.

Coincidence has no power. It is non causal.

OtemAtum:
If you don't understand, then go and research on google for the meaning of Coincidence. I am not an English teacher.

Then you don't know the meaning of the word coincidence.

Coincidence is non causal

It is not something that caused something neither does it have any power.

When people used the word , coincidence, they used it to mean something that happens by chance or accident

Honestly , the reason I am engaging you on this is simply because you're contradicting what you wrote in your book.

The story of lawumi and the covered pot in
UFOS explains the power inherent in belief as the reason for certain miraculous occurrence.

So why this?

Hope you have not forgotten what you compiled?

OtemAtum:
The power of Coincidence is a natural power. It is not a power you and I possess. It is like asking me how the power of nature works.

You're still coming up with the same thing which doesn't explain anything. Let me paraphrase your reply below so you understand what I mean.

"The power of abracadabra is a natural power.It is not a power you and I possess. It is like asking me how the power of nature works".

Hope you can see what you're doing?

If you can't understand how exactly a power works or know anything about it, why use it to explain an occurrence that defies logic and be so sure of it?

Don't you think you're doing the god of the gaps by imagining something as a cause of an occurrence you don't understand or know why it happens?

Maybe you don't know the meaning of the word coincidence or you have a different meaning of your own.

Please define the word coincidence in your next reply so I know we are on the same page

OtemAtum:
Power of Coincidence is already intertwined into nature at the beginning of existence. It's a kind of 'whatever will be will be.' But the religionists think that things that be are because of their prayers, not knowing that they must just be, with or without their prayers. If someone is to survive cancer, with or without prayers, he will survive it, but the religionists will pray over all cancer cases and then maybe one out of 40 patients will survive it and they think that it is their prayers that worked. They are not aware that some irreligious people have survived it too.

You have not answered the questions I asked.

What is the power of coincidence or define it.
How exactly does it work to cause miracles or the pattern of results you listed?

Your reply does not make any sense to me.


I can as well say that the power of abracadabra is the reason miracles happens.

And just as you have written above, I could also say the power of abracadabra is intertwined in nature and then go on to write the same meaningless sentences which doesn't explain anything.

How does the power of coincidence work since you say it is responsible for those patterns observed?

OtemAtum:
Here is the POWER OF COINCIDENCE at play in football. If something like this happen in religion for just two consecutive times, they will establish it as the miracle, signs and wonders of their god.

Same scoreline in five consecutive games.

Game week 1
Chelsea 3-0 Palace
Liverpool 3-0 Norwich

Game week 2
Liverpool 2-0 Burnley
Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal

Game week 3
Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea

Game week 4
Chelsea 3-0 A.villa
Liverpool 3-0 Leeds

Game week 5
Liverpool 3-0 Palace
Chelsea 3-0 Tottenham

Take for example, rain was about to fall yesterday, a pastor or babalawo says, "this rain will not fall." Next day he said same and it happened so. Some gullible people will worship that pastor or babalawo forever, not remembering that same man later or earlier predicted 20 more and failed woefully. T.B Joshua rode on the luck of COINCIDENCE in his days.

Coincidences are natural, but the religionists will submit themselves to the agents involved forever.

What is the power of coincidence?

How exactly does it work to cause Chelsea and Liverpool to have the same pattern of results in the first few weeks of the English football season?

Omooba77:
Why are we not seeing Miracles as of Old?

It is because the " Miracles as of old" never happened or were not real stories

Nobody has parted the red sea or any sea. Manna has never fallen from the sky and no one has ever turned water into wine in a wedding ceremony in the past.


The miraculous accounts recorded in the Bible or any other religious text, were written by highly evolved individuals in the past who wanted to use those stories to achieve a particular end.

They say, "the end justify the means". That is it

Once you know what they were seeking to achieve with those stories ,you will immediately see the point of it all.

You shouldn't take the miraculous accounts in the Bible or any religious text literarily. Anyone who does so, is being stupid.

Unfortunately, Christians and believers elsewhere don't have the proper guidance to know the truth of what they read in those text. They just follow what they are told or what they assume.

nencounter10:
By the way, what you wanted to say was Psychiatric problem. There is nothing Psycological about it.

Those are symptoms of Schrizophenia.

It is Schrizophenia patients that hear voices . But then, what do doctors know? Doctors are ignorant people.

Doctors are ignorant people?

You're not in a position to evaluate yourself mentally .That's the mistake your making.

You need some help and please don't live in denial so you don't get undone in the end

@op,

Your story contain evidences of disturbing psychological patterns which I am afraid is a precursor to mental illness.

My advice is that you're better of seeking professional help from a competent practitioner before it becomes to late.

I hope the admins of this forum do something to ensure this young man don't waste is time here so he can seek the necessary help

What the op has experienced is not uncommon amongs "true believers" within any religious groups.

True believers, from what I know, are religious fundamentalist who take their religious text literally and also regard it as the true word of God. Within this group, due to the power inherent in belief, anything is possible. "Miracles can be experienced.

In the past ,when I was credulous enough to believe anything, I also had my own share of miracles too.

What I am talking about here, is personal prayer and not intercessory prayer; the one said on behalf of others. The later is not as effective as the former. There's a reason why this is so.

Scientist who have devoted their time to study prayers made by believers from different religious groups within close controlled settings ,have been able to demonstrate that personal prayers can results in certain physiological changes in the body which can result in healing.The results can either be temporal or permanent.

So anyone saying that prayers cannot result in healing either has limited information or is living in denial.


However, the scientist says there is no evidence that a god was responsible for any of the healings observed.

The main argument they used in rejecting the god factor in prayer, is that since each religion claim to have the only true god that answers to prayer and others can't, how come believers from each of the different religion are experiencing the same thing ?

So the conclusion is that if a God is responsible at all, it has nothing to do with the god each believer thinks he or she is petitioning.

Prayers is likened to the placebo effect which scientist themselves are yet to completely understand what makes it work.

Whether prayer involves a god or not is not my concern. That is left for the believers and the sceptics to debate on.



For prayers to work , you must have enough credulity .That is it . It doesn't matter whether the object of belief is real or not as long as you believe strongly enough without any iota of doubt, then what is termed miracles are possible.

Then ,as for the issue of whether bedwetting is genetic or not. The truth is that, it is not all cases. Those who argue otherwise don't know their science or are being economical with the truth. But bedwetting is not spiritual.