₦airaland Forum

ichuka: Beautiful Thread!!

DrummaBoy: Thank you

MarkMiwerds
Alwaystrue
Ihedinobi2
Yooguyz
MrAnony1
PastorOluT

for accepting your nominations.

We await

BabaGnoni
trustman

to accept or decline their nominations as presenters at the convention.

Deadline for accepting/declining nominations is 8:00pm tomorrow, Nigerian time.

Image123: If i start with you now, people would start pitying you. ehn? Who determines what is valid and what isn't. Is it just to say/declare something valid by 'word of faith'? We both know you guys never thought Ihe's points were valid. Only Candor is thinking so now which is news to me. Anyways, keep in line with the thread na abi you find this more interesting to discuss than your F points?

All you've been doing since the start of the thread is throw snide remarks here and there without saying anything worthwhile all in a bid to push the discussants off course.

Image123: license obtained, i warned you. The scriptures quoted are not child's play. Get revelation.

PastorKun: Absolutely brilliant desertation from babagnoni on the tithing subject.
... ...

trustman: In all honesty, how did the Bible say tithing should be done?

OLAADEGBU: If you are a child of Abraham then follow his example. Simples.

shdemidemi: How are you the child of Abraham- by flesh or by the Spirit
It can't be by flesh since you are not part of his physical offspring, right?

OLAADEGBU: The answer is obvious.

shdemidemi: Give the obvious answer pls.
Plus, I asked you if Paul taught the gentile converts to Christianity how to tithe, whom to give it to, and what percentage of their wages to give. If he did, please show me.

OLAADEGBU: Who taught Abraham how to tithe? If you are a child of Abraham you will know the why, who, when, how and what to tithe. Simples.

Image123: Olaa said we should be faithful in tithes, offerings etc. You brought up Deuteronomy asking him if we should practice is faithfully as written there. He then posted a devotional(which you say you agree with) that explains how that passage applies today. Simple.

That was the basic thing i said. Your reply should logically border on whether he truly did or he did not. But you responded by asking me about four or five questions on like three passages. i'm not interested.

shdemidemi: Why does the 'like' bother you... Don't get distracted by that bro.

Whether DB understands you or not isn't the issue.. I have raised some questions that are yet to be answered, please do answer them.

Before going to the previous questions, please respond to this: What then happens if I don't follow the principle of tithing?

OLAADEGBU: If you are a child of Abraham then follow his example. Simples.

OLAADEGBU: If you want to know how our giving honours the LORD then peruse weighty matters in the article below:

Gombs: And yet, no scripture in the Bible can be brought out by a select few, a scripture condemning tithing or those who do. But some folks make it a point of duty to fight it day and night, come rain come shine.... and freely insults tithers, pastors, churches and yet claim sainthood!

Gombs: d bible expressly called non tither robbers,hence criminals. pls show me where d bible called tithers "gullible" or pastor who teach tithing "scammers", "thieves on the pulpit" "fraudsters" etc. or you wan deny the use of one all more of the enquoted adjectives?

ayam waitin for an answer

Image123: Convince you? Sorry, i do not even know you, neither was the post referred to initially directed to you but to demisquare. i told him that Tithing CAN BE a freewill form of giving. He asked and you asked HOW. In your words, "Kindly explain how that is possible." So, very sorry i wasn't thinking of convincing Starboard beyond shadow of a doubt when i made that statement.
If you understood my statement, then why did you say to kindly explain how? Your question is what made me say that you did not understand, and i proceeded to oblige you with an answer/explanation. On what i 'really think', i'll keep that between me and God. It is not for you to be guessing or fantasizing on what i really think.



i said tithing CAN BE done free will. Just like i can voluntarily decide to circumcise my children or no. There for instance is the command to pray without ceasing. Many christians pray of their freewill. Some other religions must pray at certain fixed times and frequencies. To them, they feel condemned if they miss that prescription. It is not really so with the christian despite the command. That is free will, that is voluntary. Meanwhile some fellows, families and fellowships might practice a specific time to observe prayers maybe family devotion or during church service. This illustration is meant to show/ explain that PRAYER can be voluntary and can be coerced etc. Same thing with circumcision, same thing with tithes. i never said that some people are not coerced to tithe. For those that read me, i've consistently maintained that wrong use or abuse of a thing does not automatically call for disuse. i'm not oblivious that there are wrong practices and teachings on prayer, or on tithe, or baptism, or on virtually every christian subject. What i'm particular about is what does the Bible say, not what sentiments say. Does the Bible say not to tithe etc. Again, i'm tired already of all these tithe talk, especially as it is the usual circles, and often involving the usual suspects and threads. Most of what you may say or ask has already being said and answered on this very thread and its sister threads.
You'll have to forgive me, i might ignore further discussions expect where i see necessary. i do not have such unenviable ministry of tithetalks, and it removes nothing from me if the whole world don't tithe.



Maybe its just this post, but i think your mind reading skills are v.poor. Stop trying to look into my thoughts.

Exo 35:4 And Moses spoke unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
Exo 35:5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
Exo 35:10 And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded

It is as clear as clear, the Lord COMMANDED(verse 4 and 10). Verse 5 shows the WILLING heart. This is a COMMAND for a WILLING offering. You don't want us writing this in Hausa or Ibibio for clearer understanding, do you?


Sorry, i'm not here to speak for or against your church. The truth remains that Tithing can be given willingly irrespective of what your church thinks or practices.



This is the one they call "laugh and go". that's what i should just do, really. i gave you two Bible passages where a specified command was done freewill.
-Those passages(Exodus 35 and Leviticus 1) are Old Testament Bible commands, the command to tithe is also found in the Bible.
-The commands were specific, bring gold, and silver, and brass, blue, purple, scarlet, fine linen, goats' hair, cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock without blemish. He shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted. Tithing is specific, bring a tenth.
-Despite those two passages being commands and specific, the people still gave voluntarily of their free will even in the OT. How much more in the New Testament period of grace. Yet in all their willing voluntary cheerfulness, they couldn't go bring elephant or snake head, or limestone, or fish scales. They even had to put the hand on the head of the burnt offering for it to be accepted. And on and on. Permit me to stop here. If you do not understand what i've said in many words, good luck with whatever you do. i understand you are not a child, however do remember that that is an essential quality required in the Kingdom.

Image123: Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

The obsession with F7, a thing very rarely seen shows again that nothing much is to be gained from here. Next.

Goshen360: That scripture that talks about "giving to those ministers of the gospel" is grossly abused and taken out of context. Please, investigate that scripture and see if that temple system still applies today for the SAME principles to also apply. Paul, also mentioned a giving that is from the cheerful heart, is tithe an example of such or of a commandment, convenient or not?

So, what happened was, Paul, drew example to parallel a grace based giving under the new agreement of grace. You can't live in the USA and operate by the rules, regualations and laws of Nigeria. Also, there're examples in the old but we can't make our balance with them of old. Scripture says, without us whom Christ died, they of old are imperfect\not complete....we're complete in Christ.

Image123: Can we safely conclude that those preachers i named are not WOF? To think you fellows have being itching to name names. Don' t disappoint ohhh. Also, kindly be clear on who these wannabes are. Is it Adeboye, or Oyedepo, or Kumuyi, or Oyakhilome, or who? Try to be as specific as you've been fighting to be.

joezakdeen: if u r afraid to go to church and giv, u r a miser and u r against God. The tithe is to take care of the men of God as the bible says and all moni given to the church has acounts, unless ofcourse a fake church. Wen u go to church, giv. Is there problem wid dat. Bsides those giving do not hv problem wid it abi? U knw wat? because God continues to bless dem wid wat they giv. Those who calim they know neva knw! If u dnt pay tithe, u r a thief to God nd perhaps u might not knw hw blind u r. God is merciful.

Image123: i was hoping to take you fellows serious this once. It's either we take what you're saying at face value or not. Tman said THESE phenomenons(i guess he meant phenomena). Then he clearly (or so i thought) said "They have become a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers". It's either i have comprehension issues or he doesn't know what he is writing. You're talking to a Nigerian audience on a Nigerian forum.

Image123: *distinguishing features you say? i've NEVER seen this(LAUGHTER) in Nigeria, not even in recent times or as a distinguishing feature in foreign supposedly WOF meetings. Is there no WOF movement in Nigeria? Is Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc WOF? Name callers anybody?

DrummaBoy: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY LAUGHTER[/size]

Question: "What is holy laughter?"

Answer: The term "holy laughter" was coined to describe a phenomenon during which a person laughs uncontrollably, presumably as a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit's joy. It is characterized by peals of uncontrollable laughter, sometimes accompanied by swooning or falling down to the floor. Firsthand accounts from those who have had this experience vary somewhat, but all seem to believe it to be a sign of a "blessing" or "anointing" of the Holy Spirit.

The experience of holy laughter is, by nature, a subjective one. Therefore, in an effort to find the truth of the matter, we must try to be objective. When our definition of truth depends upon our experience of the world, we are a very short way from becoming entirely relative in our thinking. In short, feelings do not tell us what is true. Feelings are not bad, and sometimes our feelings are aligned with scriptural truth. However, they are more often aligned with our sin nature. The fickle nature of the heart makes it a very unreliable compass. "The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). This deceitful-heart principle is specifically applicable to the phenomenon known as "holy laughter." There is no doubt that people have indeed begun to laugh uncontrollably at revival meetings. That is a fact. But what does it really mean?

Laughter is addressed a number of times in the Bible. Often it is used to describe a mocking or scornful response, as was the case with Abraham and Sarah who laughed when God told them they would bear a child in their old age. Some verses use it as a sign of derision (Psalm 59:8; Psalm 80:6; Proverbs 1:26), and still others make pointed statements about the nature of laughter itself. Solomon, for example, made the following observation in Ecclesiastes 2:2: "I said of laughter, ‘It is madness,’ and of pleasure, ‘What does it accomplish?’" He then goes on to say, in 7:3, "Sorrow is better than laughter, for when a face is sad a heart may be happy." Proverbs 14:13 says the reverse: "Even in laughter the heart may be in pain, and the end of joy may be grief." Both of these verses are true: a sad person may laugh to cover his sadness, and a person may cry although he is inwardly happy. So, not only does emotion fail to give us truth, but we also see that laughter is not always indicative of joy. It can mean anger, sadness, or derision. Likewise, the lack of laughter does not automatically mean sadness. Laughter is clearly subjective.

The most convincing scriptural argument against what is called "holy laughter" is found in Galatians 5:22-23. It says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." If self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God, how can uncontrollable laughter also be a fruit of His Spirit? Revival leaders claim that being filled with the Spirit means that we are sort of "tossed about" by His whims. But the idea that God would make people act drunk or laugh uncontrollably or make animal noises as a result of the Spirit's anointing is directly opposed to the way the Spirit acts, according to Galatians 5:22-23. The Spirit described in Galatians 5 is one who promotes self-control within us, not the opposite. Finally, there was no one in the Bible more filled with the Holy Spirit than Jesus, and not once does the Bible ever record Him laughing.

In light of these things, it is profitable to take a look at the following passage from 1 Corinthians 14, where Paul talks about speaking in tongues: "But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?" (v.6).

"For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air” (vv. 8-9).

"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God" (vv. 26-28).

"...for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints" (v. 33).

In those days, many people in the churches were speaking in languages that were unrecognizable to others, and, therefore, Paul says they were useless in the church because the speaker could not edify others with his speech. The same could be applied to holy laughter. What does it profit (Paul asks) unless we speak to one another with revelation, teaching, knowledge and truth? Again, he says, "Let all things be done for edification." He caps off his argument by saying, "God is not a God of confusion, but of peace," which makes it clear that he does not want the atmosphere within the church to be one of confusion and meaninglessness, but one of knowledge and edification.

It seems, from what Paul is saying, that which is called "holy laughter" would fall under the category of what is "not edifying" to the body of Christ, and should therefore be avoided. We have recognized that a) laughter is an unreliable emotional response; b) it can be a sign of several different emotions; and c) it does not accomplish anything useful. Furthermore, uncontrollable spasms of emotion are contrary to the nature of the Holy Spirit. It is advisable, therefore, not to look to "holy laughter" as a means of growing nearer to God or as a means of experiencing His Spirit.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/holy-laughter.html#ixzz37vWH8Y88

Bidam: And what has this scripture got to do with Ananias and Saphira If you have a problem with the severity of God back then you can take it up with the Holy Spirit!

Robbers.

alexleo: Are you afraid of what Bidam said? Is your teaching a lie? Search yourself. I don't understand the panic.

Bidam: ...Wish the bible days of ananias and sapphira is here.

Gombs: Still counting down to the next 4month...when I'd dig up this thread, and I'd savour its stench of failure