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 Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 6:23am On Aug 25, 2014 |
mbaemeka: BabaGnoni, your weighty tomes on rank Heresies are needed now. Finally some attention.Not attention but DISTRACTION by Mbaemeka. Let's stick more to what this thread is on instead of using underhand tactics to come at opponent. If you've truly gone through from our F1 to the current F12 truly read the information provided then you must admit your line of reasoning is very faulty and you need to repent rather than seek to make more disciples of evil for WoF movement. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 7:57pm On Aug 24, 2014 |
mbaemeka: I am getting bored. If I see anything worth responding to I might.Are you sure it's really that you are getting bored or you can no longer handle superior teachings from the Scripture. You blaspheme God by your arrogance in claiming things God has not clearly stated in His Word. Watch it! 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 4:08pm On Aug 24, 2014 |
mbaemeka This is just another futile drivel at nothingness.I know you are looking for a Theology 101 class before you can understand simple issues which somebody in the world may readily grasp. What does 1 Corinthians 15: 35 – 58 tell you about the human body? What does Philippians 3: 21 tell you about the same body? Did Paul suggest that he didn't try to from the Epaphroditus' encounter? What is this nonsense?  I mentioned many instances in Elijahs life as documented in the scriptures. I don't understand how you can't see that many instances although not documented show that his life was an uneding stream of the miraculous. John made the same reference for Jesus I am sure you would have asked him.to stop exaggerating too.Wait a minute! You mean you have details about Elijah that were not documented in the Bible? From where did you get them – from ‘revelation’ knowledge? What a “spiritual” man you must be getting ‘fresh revelations’ on Elijah’s life! Very soon apart all scripture that we have we shall be having additional ones from mbaemeka and his likes that they want us to add to the existing canon. My friend, when John wrote what he wrote he knew what he was saying and no one today can come up to fill in the gaps for him. The Acts of the apostles is called the ACTS of the APOSTLES for a reason. It was written majorly about their exploits. Now Jesus didn't give any special mandate concerning these acts to them he gave it to everyone who BELIEVES in him. Why won't you forsake your flesh for once and take him for his word?If everyone was supposed to be doing these acts, mbaemeka, how come Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12: 12 – “The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works"? Declaring a healing for yourself or for someone doesn't require any special gift. Jesus said we are to use his name and see results. We know about the different gifts but that's not what Jesus referred to in the book of John. If you have the Holy Spirit in you- you have POWER from on high. Now go out and use the power! That's what the bible says. Stop dodging the word: face it and act on it.You are the one who should be laughed at. What did Lazarus in Luke 16: 19-31 do regarding ‘KINGDOM FINANCE’, mbaemeka style, to qualify him for what he had in the hereafter? You and Candour put together didn't understand what Paul did and I explained it again to Candour above. You should read my post to understand it. Then juxtapose it with some of the rubbish you have posted or clicked 'like' to.So a ‘dignitary’ to you is your “MoG”? And you do seriously think that was what Jude was referring to? This truly shows the level of your understanding of scripture. The money that you hate seeing is my slave. There I said it again. Deal with it.As a man thinks in his heart so is he. If we are to suffer on earth then it must only be what Christ mandated us to suffer- and that is persecution. If you are referring to poverty, sickness, death etc Then I am over and above all that because Christ died for me and then placed me to sit with him far above ALL principalities, powers and name that is named in heaven, on earth and underneath the earth.If your definition of suffering is restricted to only ‘persecution’ then I can see how shallow your definition is and why you people cannot cope with the issue of Job. You can place anything into that box. I am above it. If it offends you it is expected. You are lacking the Spirit.Offend me? Only an immature person will be ‘offended’ by a baby’s tantrum. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 10:40pm On Aug 23, 2014 |
mbaemeka: 1. Jesus should have Prayed for diseases to leave the world instead of healing people who came to him in faith. He is the Miracle-patent; why not ask him that?Since you WoF advocates have reduced Jesus to your level and elevated yourselves to the level of God this kind of statement so easily comes out of you. You dare equate yourself with the Christ? You don't even seem to know him or his ministry here on earth at his first advent; do you? Again this shows your lack of understanding of what PRAYER is. Remember we were on this sometime back? You are insinuating that the Lord of the Universe be like a mere man? Haba! 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 10:24pm On Aug 23, 2014 |
mbaemekaYou still have a lot to learn. You need to learn something from BabaGnoni’s posted statement: "Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture;Now to your issues I remember telling you once too, to take your own advice and read posts with the spirit of the writer and not in a way to argue for the sake of arguing.A writer in a forum such as this must write to be clearly understood and not assume that the reader read posts "with the spirit of the writer". Write what you mean, mean what you write. 1. You mentioned Epaphroditus as an indication that Christians could fall sick but If I ask you if Jesus asked 'us' to heal the sick I am twisting your words. A tail does not wag the dog; if Epaphroditus is a standard for sicknesses then I can raise other scriptural standards for divine health- including Jesus who ought to be the template.Again this is where you lack balance. The example is to show that a Christian can be sick. It is also to show that if Paul and the early held the same view as you do they should have 'healed' him, not even to pray for healing since you claim the authority is there. But they did not do that. Why do you think they did not? 2. Just the same way I said "miracles were abounding daily" (a clear hyperbole for emphasis) you cannot ask me to show you Elijah performed miracles daily. The daily lives of almost all the men in scriptures was not chronicled daily but we can sense that when miracles were "needed" they happened. You are as guilty, period.We are dealing with issues of TRUTH here; why resort to unnecessary exaggeration? How can you "sense that when miracles were "needed" they happened" ? For goodness sake this again is how you go beyond the scripture in the bid to get it to agree with your point of view. Just stick to the word as presented. 3. The "majorly", "authenticate" is just a ploy at verbal escapism. Jesus gave the instructions to all believers and that was the import of my response. Deal with it.This was to point out where you missed it. I was referring to the Acts of the Apostles. Who in the book was performing miracles most - the apostles or every other believer? Don't loose sight of this. What does this tell you? 4. If you performed personal miracles it will be easy for you to believe those of others. I asked you that question to prove to you that you have no such personal testimonies regardless of how you are trying to sentimentalize it.Should the fact that i don't have a spiritual gift make it easier for me to disbelieve someone who has? We are talking here about WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS and not personal testimonies. BTW the Pharisee that reeled out his scorecard wasn't reeling out a miracle scorecard. You should ask Jesus why when John the Baptist sent his disciples to ask him if he was really the expected Messiah, he went on to express his miracle-scorecard. Then advice Jesus.I will choose not to join you in your careless remark regarding Jesus. LOL @ laying up treasures in heaven, how do you suppose I can do that? Throw up my treasures into heaven hoping archangel Micheal catches it?If you don't know how to store up for yourself treasures in heaven then it really shows you have a lot of learning to do. And you laugh at an issue that has to do with your ETERNITY. You don't understand that THIS LIFE is like a drop in the bucket compared to ETERNITY. You LOL? And then bring in Archangel Michael into this? Have you forgotten respect for "higher authority"? 5. Those who are trained in the things of God know how to receive the word of God without being contumacious. The scripture I gave you was clear- Esteem those who labour over you and teach you the word VERY HIGHLY in LOVE because of their work. . .and be at peace with yourself. If calling them charlatans, fakes, thieves is your idea of esteeming someone in love then you have a lot to learn. And please leave Paul out of it- he was wrongly treated by the High Priest yet he did not rile him with insults.I believe Candour has answered you well on this, particularly on the issue of response to the high priest. I hope you see that Paul always acted on what was written. 6. If your words are not words of God then they are evil words- the middle is excluded. Besides the Thessalonians translation that says: warn those that are unruly in other translations says those that break ranks we can cross-reference it with the dogs and evil workers in the book of Phillipians.The issue for you is what do the portions of scripture that you quote mean? You are not at liberty to interpret words the way you feel or think. Always start from what the scripture means not what you what it to mean. See the quote above again. 7. To those whose hearts are pure all things are pure. If you could see only "money, money, money" in my posts it is because that is probably an area that your spirit is convicting you about. It has nothing to do with me.It is not what i "see". It is what you WROTE i referred to. When you write or refer to money constantly whose spirit is being revealed there - mine or yours? You can have a bad life here and still continue the suffering in hell same way I can have a good life here and continue it in Heaven. There is a rest for God's people in this life as we are the sons of God now not just when we get to heaven.This is irrelevant here. Maybe you are going this way here to muddle up things. 8. Candour said "if he misread you saying we should focus on the sicknesses he would correct you" and not that you NEVER did say what not. Besides, the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. I hope this does not pass you by.This is another set of crap... |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 7:55pm On Aug 23, 2014 |
therealMcCain: no he hasn't answered thisGIVING IS PART OF OUR WORSHIP Of GOD. Worship is not something forced upon you; it is a response of thankfulness for your relationship with God. Giving then, as part of our worship, should be a response to God’s grace that the Christian has received in Christ Jesus. Second Corinthians 8—9 is a detailed section in Scripture on giving under the Church age. In it we see the greatest expression of giving being giving IN RESPONSE to God’s grace rather than just to get a physical blessing. Grace giving is the exact opposite of legalistic giving. Under legalistic giving, people give to gain something in return—to receive attention, to impress others, to compete with others, to ease a guilt feeling, to satisfy a lust pattern. Grace giving is not an attempt to bribe God for divine blessing. Of course when rightly done giving can bring out God’s blessing in whatever way he chooses. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 6:41pm On Aug 23, 2014 |
mbaemeka: 1. Elijah declared rainlessness to Israel. Moved away to a Brook in Cherith and was fed everyday by Ravens (the greediest birds known to man). God sends him to Zarephath and he feeds a broke widow for many days before he prays for rain to come back. He outruns kings chariots; he calls fire from heaven; he teleports; he is flown in a chariot of fire to heaven; he doesn't taste death; he appears to Jesus; he is destined to return.Mbaemeka Your thinking is lacking balance. You need to take time to read posts before hastily responding. I think I’ve told you that before. You take people’s statements make your own meaning out of them or twist them round and then seek to use your new ‘meaning’ to attack them. That is being fraudulent. For example, no one is saying that Elijah did not perform miracles or that God was not with him. But looking at his life you, if you are to be honest with yourself, cannot say that he was performing miracles everyday. What can you take away from that fact? In the New Testament coming to book of Acts, Miracles were performed majorly by the apostles to authenticate their calling. NOTE was I said here- majorly i.e. MOSTLY; to a large extent. That is different from if I had said ONLY. Do you get it now? So what does this also tell you? When you get personal or seek private details so as to use them as weapon against your perceived ‘opponents’ I wonder what you are up to. Hoping perhaps that such ‘attacks’ will silence them? If I have performed a million miracles I do not need to broadcast it. The Bible gives me more to boast about than that. Remember the Pharisee who reeled out his scorecard before God – ‘I do this, I do that …’ What was Jesus’ response to him. if you get the praise of men here, you may end up loosing God’s approval. Go and read Matthew Chapter 6 and see how or how not broadcast your ‘good deeds’ and also where to lay up your treasures – whether on earth or in heaven. Esteeming anyone highly DOES NOT mean turning them into mini-gods. Esteeming highly DOES NOT mean when a man is wrong you keep quite. Did Paul esteem the other apostles highly? Did he consider himself the least of the apostles? Did that make him keep quiet when Peter was wrong? Do you REFUSE to tell your man of God (or at least recognize it ) that he is wrong because it is ‘his own church’? - his own church, really? A clear command in 1 Cor. 3: 21 is ‘Let no one boast in men’. Interestingly you don’t seem to understand what it is to break ranks and speak evil. I tried to define EVIL for you maybe you should go back and look at it. Again one can see in your posts money, money, money; the here and now – having the good life now. Is this Christian? Candour in refering to you said: If trustman asks anybody to pray to be sick like the apostles, I must have missed it and I'll tell him here that he's wrong if indeed he advocated that.[size=14pt]Trustman never did[/size], its all part of mbaemeka's twisting of other people's posts to justify his line of attack. Instead of seeking to understand people's point of view you seek to use your own worldview of Christianity to 'read' their words. 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 10:19am On Aug 23, 2014 |
therealMcCain:I want to trust that candour has sufficiently addressed your concerns. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 4:20am On Aug 23, 2014 |
mbaemeka: [size=5pt]Should a Godly Christian heal the sick? If yes, where are your healings? If No, did Jesus lie?1. Miracles were not everyday occurrences in the time of Elijah. What does this tell you? 2. Read the book of Acts. Miracles were performed majorly by the apostles to authenticate their calling. What does this tell you? 3. Is Philippians 2: 25-26 true? "But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill." Here is: a brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. And he was sick. With the apostle's knowledge. What does that tell you? 4. No one here is saying that we should not pray for the sick. The Bible has examples and instructions on praying for needs including healing from sickness. 5. The promise of rewards for Christian service is not necessarily tied to the here and now - Matthew 5: 11-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way". Luke 6: 35 "But love your enemies, and [size=13pt]do good, and lend, expecting nothing back[/size]. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to ungrateful and evil people." 6. When the Bible is rightly put in context and you still scorn it then you pitch yourself against it and not man. 7. The Scripture gives this command - "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them".(Ephesians 5:11) Exposing that which is not of light or the truth is enjoined by the Word of God. Paul exposed Peter's error openly. error does more harm to the body of Christ than anything else. So i hope by your 'higher authority' and 'due process' you do not mean that if a "MoG" propagates a wrong teaching every other 'ordinary' Christian should just keep quiet so as to respect 'higher authority' and by so doing is following 'due process'. Higher authority and due process should be as the Bible declares them. In the Jude passage it is reference to angelic order. Many of you today still go against this. Due process as far the Bible is concerned is what the Word of God says, not what man says. Man is fallible, only God's word is infallible. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 8:58pm On Aug 22, 2014 |
[quote author=mbaemeka][/quote] God doesn't take care of just our spirits: he is interested in our Souls and Bodies as well. Many of the smooth-talkers above "may" have received a new Spirit from God but they sure haven't made him the God of their Soul and Bodies. This is the simple explanation for their incessant bickering on Seeds and Miracles.Can godly Christians fall sick? – Philippians 2: 25-26 “But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill.” Does God have the sole prerogative to heal? – Philippians 2: 27 “In fact he became so ill that he nearly died. But God showed mercy to him—and not to him only, but also to me—so that I would not have grief on top of grief.” Is the motivation to give to God to be tied to reaping financial rewards? Is seed-faith in the Bible? – Acts 20: 29-30 “I know that after I am gone fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Even from among your own group men will arise, teaching perversions of the truth to draw the disciples away after them.” 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.” 2 Corinthians 8:8 “I am not saying this as a command, but I am testing the genuineness of your love by comparison with the eagerness of others.” Can miracles be fake or be from the devil? – 2 Thessalonians 2:9 “The arrival of the lawless one will be by Satan’s working with all kinds of miracles and signs and false wonders” They have no God over their mouths, hands or money- God is only there to ensure they make heaven. Yet these same lot will have you believe that you are serving God as though he is a money-doubler, yet the same scriptures that tell us contentment tell us about God's ability and willingness to do 'exceedingly abundantly above all we can ASK or THINK'.Is “making heaven” less important than physical wellbeing? – Mark 9:45-47 “If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out! It is better to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell” If God is the 'God of my life' he ought to (in the same vein) be the God of my money too- which means I should put him first. This is indeed what Jesus meant by seeking God's righteousness (Jesus) and his kingdom first and then having our 'hearts desires' added to us as a bonus.On God and abundance – 1 Timothy 6: 6-10 “ Now godliness combined with contentment brings great profit. For we have brought nothing into this world and so we cannot take a single thing out either. But if we have food and shelter, we will be satisfied with that. Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.” Beware of those who advice you to 'speak any how' and 'hold your money back' when it pertains to God's work. They speak evil against authorities and break ranks. Many of them are rebels in the house of God.They may have the flesh of Esau but it's really the voice of Jacob.On speaking evil against authorities and breaking ranks - What is evil? - Should ‘works of darkness’ be exposed? Evil is first and foremost the policy (the overall plan and definite course of action) of Satan. Legalism, (excessive conformity to law or rules – dos and don’ts), socialism, communism, etc fall into this. It is the thinking of Satan as opposed to the mind of Christ – the Bible truths about God’s own policy. Colossians 2: 8 – “Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.” On the other hand God’s policy toward man is always GRACE. The Bible enjoins Christians to take hard stance on occasions – 2 John 1: 10-11 “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting, because the person who gives him a greeting shares in his evil deeds.” Jude 3b – “that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” Beware of Dogs! For they are not outside the church but inside.What are the characteristics of dogs? Who best exemplify such today? Do the WoF proponents best fit into these? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 10:06pm On Aug 21, 2014 |
Image123: Are you against fake healing schools or against healing school? They are two different things i think. Or it's simply the name it is called that bugs you?Only the Bible gives the final word on any matter or issue, therefore the Christian must ‘test every spirit’ with the Word of God. Only then can he hope to escape error or outright deception. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 9:07pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F12: Fake healing schools[/size] Galatians 5:7-9 shows how false teaching can affect everyone: "You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough." Elixir for all ailments? Because many Christians are looking for panacea to their problems anything offered as a ‘cure-it-all’ (cure-all) is readily grabbed by them without any effort to see how much such a ‘solution’ is in line with the Word of God. Unless the Christian settles it in his heart once and for all that every doctrine or practice offered to him as coming from God must be measured against the Word of God and that if such a practice or doctrine is not in line with the Word it must be disregarded or considered secondary to the Word, then anything goes. Unfortunately the word of 2 Timothy 4: 3-4 seem to ring through today throughout the church: "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." It’s homegrown; it’s exiting? I believe the truth about healing schools of the WoF movement is clearly exemplified in the Christ Embassy Church a.k.a. Believers Love World. I could have given a couple of personal examples known to me but I think that in order not to reinvent the wheel an article that gives this picture which incidentally was put on NL is presented again below. The title is: The Truth About Christ Embassy Healing School by SirJohn(m): Nov, 2008. " Many have wondered and would like to know the truth about healing and miracle claims from the healing school of Christ Embassy. I’d like say a few things about the genuineness of these miracles which have sparked endless questions. What I’m about to say may sound shocking to you but it is the truth. it is a first hand account of my experience at the healing school. What you see on loveworld videos/TV, especially miracle testimonies no matter how believable they appear, are simply what Pastor Chris and his TV crew wants you to see. The truth is that a larger number of people including his pastors, partners and even you hardly ever know what goes on behind the camera scenes. I was at healing school May 2008 session and the discoveries I made blew my mind and shook the very foundation of my faith. I spent a total of 4 weeks at the healing (it had two sessions and each ran for two weeks) this period of time at the healing school afforded me the opportunity to observe certain unusual happenings which I must reveal. I have been a member and a consistent financial partner of the ministry since 2004. Pastor Chris Oyakhilome had been my role model, mentor, prophet and father. I have followed his teachings and doctrines to the letter so much that you couldn't talk with me for 10 Min's without knowing I was his follower. I had taken someone who was wheelchair bound as a result of spinal cord injury to the Healing school with hope that Pastor Chris would minister to him at the end of the session (at least this is what I was made to believe from several healing school publications) but this was not to be, and the events that followed were shocking and beyond my imagination. After the first session, there was to be a healing service where the students having received faith to be healed, were put on the healing line to be ministered to by Pastor Chris. This was where my questions started. The reason is that not only did we not make it to the healing line but several other folks with obvious physical disabilities were also not put on the healing line. I made efforts to find out the criteria for the selection that was made; this was what I found out: I discovered that all wheelchair cases taken to the healing line for ministration were people whose conditions were not such that they couldn't stand or walk. in other words, the people you see popping out of wheelchairs in those videos can both previously stand and walk. They are carefully selected through a process I will discuss later. Secondly, to my utter amazement, I also discovered that several other people whom I had seen on different occasions walking around the hall unaided and without any sign of pain or disability during the two weeks session were put on wheelchairs or made to lie on stretchers during this healing service. After much waiting, the “Man of God” walks in touching every one on the healing line and then proceeds to the wheelchair section; with one touch here and there he instructs them to get up “and they do” wild shouts of excitement reverberated across the auditorium as partners and pastors who have been specially invited to witness the miracles jumped for joy. I felt like sinking through the solid ground, I couldn’t believe my eyes. Once in a while I would utter a word of prayer, I’d say: “Lord please don’t let this be what I think” I remember a particular man who came for that session; he had been involved in a motor accident which left him with a spinal injury. He had difficulty walking normally because he couldn’t bend both knees while walking (I had seen him walking) he came with a neck guard and two crutches to support himself properly while walking. I observed that two days after coming to the healing school, he started exercising his faith by moving around without the neck guard and crutches, that was how he moved around for two weeks. During the healing service, I was shocked to see the same man with his neck guard and crutches which he hadn't used for two weeks. Pastor Chris prayed for him and took the neck guard off as though it was a big deal, the congregation applauded and stood to their feet as he went on to take the crutches from the man; he then asked the man to walk. The man obviously walked but not any better than he had walked for two weeks without Pastor Chris praying for him. After the service, as the partners left the hall, the students and the “healed” were asked to wait behind. I observed that one of the two ladies who got out of the wheelchair half an hour ago quietly sat back in her wheelchair with a pale look on her face, the people who brought her all the way from Benin didn't seem like they had seen a miracle; this puzzled me more. The borrowed wheelchairs were returned to the real owners as I looked with great surprise. Please see the link below: http://www.christembassyhealingschool.org/new/images/pdf/August2008.pdf the lady in page 14 (in blue jacket) is the one I'm refering to in the last paragraph. She could both stand and walk before the ministration by Pastor Chris. The young man in page 15 is reported to have been "unable to walk without a walking frame" yet I had seen him on many ocassions before the healing service walk around without that frame. The woman in page 16 did not even come to the healing school with a wheelchair; the wheelchair you see does not belong to her To be continued… " For the complete link go to: https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school What is our safeguard? Many more of such experiences abound. The pertinent questions include the following: How come there is the need to have a ‘school’ for divine healing? Where in the Bible can we find even an example of this not to talk of a command to institute a thing like this? How did the apostles heal; is this new trend in line with how they did theirs? Did the apostles not demonstrate the power to heal with of without the recipients being ‘schooled’ in anything before being healed? How come whereas several healings in Scripture were not predicated on the recipients’ ‘faith’ today’s ‘healers’ claim that where healing does not take place it is because of ‘lack of faith’? Unfortunately, like in the media world, the cases of failure which far exceed the successes are never made public to warn others. Only the few “success stories” are publicized. Because the written Word of God is NOT regarded by the WoF movement as the basis for objective truth, subjectivism reigns supreme as a result anything goes. The Christian must not be afraid to look at any trend carefully in the light of the Word of God. Only the Bible gives the final word on any matter or issue, therefore the Christian must ‘test every spirit’ with the Word of God. Only then can he hope to escape error or outright deception. I REST MY CASE ON F12, FOR NOW. 5 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 5:35pm On Aug 17, 2014*. Modified: 9:59pm On Aug 18, 2014 |
[size=18pt]Are Nigerian Churches enmeshed in all these?[/size] I want to believe that only a few will deny the fact that most of what we have been talking about have taken over many WoF churches in Nigeria. The little leaven has affected the whole lump of dough. The emphasis on the individual and focus on materialism has led to a decline in spiritual commitment on the part of many believers. It is not an exaggeration to say that the spiritual life of Nigerian Christians does not match the numerical growth in the number of churches in recent times. As a result, the impact the church should have had on the society as compared to years gone by is very insignificant. The declining emphasis on what true spirituality is all about and the simultaneous crave for materialism in churches has added to this lack of impact. Thus, many may be in church today who are there not for the ‘bread of life’ but for their personal bread and butter. The Church where donations from any source, including known dupes and criminals, and where clergy with obvious involvement in sexual immorality are applauded by resounding ovation and praise is definitely far from that which the apostles instituted – recall the story of Ananias and sapphira. The turning to faith by works, the emphasis the clergy on the material, the lowering of the standard of holiness, the deliberate withholding of the truth from people by ministers, the utter disregard of the poor in many of our church congregations, and so on and so forth are things that should call for concern among discerning believers. The WoF doctrines taken in hook line and sinker by many of our churches are the main driving force responsible for this. If true spiritual resource is eroded where lies the strength of Christian faith? The Nigerian believers should meet head-on this onslaught against it if the church is to continue to remain relevant. There is a fundamental challenge to deal with these issues if the Nigerian church, which is already radically deviating from true Christianity or reinterpreting Christianity, will not end up losing its effectiveness and place in God’s scheme of things. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by trustman: 9:08pm On Aug 15, 2014 |
BabaGnoni, I had a busy day else I would have commented earlier. That was a fantastic presentation given the topic and number of words constraint. Well done! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 7:12am On Aug 15, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F11: Staged leg lengthening healing[/size][/color] LEG LENGTHENING ‘MIRACLES” "For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.” Titus 1:10-11 Does God heal? The answer is an obvious ‘Yes’. But, do other religions also claim healing? There have been accounts of healing in Christian Science, New Thought Unity and other religions. Therefore when a pastor or preacher claims to be able to heal in the name of God he needs to be absolutely sure that he is depending on God alone and is not using any underhand methods or systems. For the Christian it is crucial that he test those who claim to heal in the name of God (1 John 4:1). However, in an age where many actually crave for ‘miracles’, testing any claim is the last thing in the mind of believers today. There are several instances where the claims of healing have turned out to be nothing more than hoaxes. Included in this is the case of healing regarding legs that were supposedly either too long or too short compared to the other. This is the Staged Leg lengthening Healing. The issue is that many WoF miracle services are all about showmanship and appearance. It is shockingly easy to fake healings, even to hold entire crowd under a kind of spell in which people appear to be ‘healed’ and yet no one is really cured. How is this accomplished? This is usually accomplished by making the audience see the problems as been solved in one way or the other through the statements been made by the ‘faith healers’. The set-up for the trick: The subject is made to sit on a chair and then stretches their legs forward toward the “healer” … lo and behold, one leg is shorter! The “healer” then does his/her ‘prayer’, grabs the legs and pulls.. and astonishingly, the “short” leg “grows out” to match the “normal” one! Proof of miracle! Drop something in the offering plate! These “healers” may simply command the leg to grow, usually followed by some other exclamation, like “SEE, IT’S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW! IT’S GROWING!” And suddenly everybody sees the “miracle” happen. In one account by a ‘faith healer’ the leg of the ‘patient’ that he commanded to grow ended up growing past the length of the other leg. At this stage he initially got confused then after regaining himself had to do another ‘prayer’ to get leg to shrink to match the other leg. What can one make of this? First, the leg gets longer than the normal one, and then it had to be readjusted to make it align with the normal one. Is it God at work here or something else? What one finds in all these is that compared to healings by Jesus Christ and the Apostles where healings were spontaneous and complete what we find in many cases are a far cry from what obtained then. A question to ask is: If these faith healers have real power from God, why does it take so much effort to get their “miracles” done? As pointed out earlier it can be as simple as being a trick. On the other hand it may be that some ‘other powers’ may be at work in these so called healings. Concerns As Christians, we believe that anyone who claims to be doing a thing in the name of Christ would be anything less than honest and ethical. Moreover, many Christians want to believe in what these healers do as evidence that God is still at work. And indeed, God is still a God of miracles. But where they turn out to be tricks or fake they bring the name of God into disrepute. Biblical faith is not blind or ridiculous. It is time for Christians to do as the Scripture says: “Test every spirit”. I REST MY CASE ON F11 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by trustman: 7:54pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: @yooguyz goodwork, though i wish you had spread your tentacles. I expected a little of many things.Remember my focus is on The Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian. However let me attempt some answers. What we have under the New Covenant far exceeds anything before it. Yes there was a foreshadow in the Old. But in the New we have a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD. Royalty is added to priesthood. The fullness has come in the New. The book of Ephesians chapters 1 -3 brings this out vividly. Jesus guaranteed a better covenant under the New – Hebrews 7: 22, Hebrews 8. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by trustman: 7:08pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: @trustman, https://s27.postimg.org/wlv2woi33/thumb_Up.gif Well done on your postThanks |
| Christianity Etc › Re: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by trustman: 7:02pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
[striktlymi] 1) You said the Holy Spirit bestows at least one Spiritual gift. Is it possible then for that gift to be something else other than the gift of tongues?1. Yes 2) If the above is "yes", how then can the Christian manage this inability to speak in tongues considering that we live in a society where an inability to speak in tongues may be mistaken for something else?2. Societal perception should be a secondary issue for the Christian compared to God’s view of him. Being on God’s side should be paramount for him. The Christian’s position ought to be like the apostles’ in Acts 5: 29 – “…We must obey God rather than me.” 3) Is it possible for one to lose any of the gifts of the spirit? If yes, what are the circumstances that can lead to this? If no, why do you believe so?3. The gifts of God are given by grace. Carnality may prevent the expression of a Christian’s gift. 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by trustman: 6:09pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
[size=18pt]The Power of the Holy Spirit in Christian Living[/size] Part 2 – THE HOLY SPIRIT’S MINISTRY TO BELIEVERS Acts 1:8 “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” The Holy Spirit has been provided for the Christian, as a royal priest to grow up spiritually and as an ambassador for Christ to give witness to Christ and spiritual service. The Holy Spirit is therefore involved in helping the Christian grow up spiritually and also for empowerment to live a life of productive service for God. The Holy Spirit’s ministry at the point of salvation First, let’s see what the Holy Spirit does for the Christian at salvation before then looking at how he enables him fulfill his dual functions as a priest and an ambassador. 1. Baptism of the Holy Spirit At salvation the Holy Spirit enters every Christian into Christ to make him a member of Christ’s body. • 1 Corinthians 12:13 – “For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” • Galatians 3: 26-28 –“So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” As a result of this work of the Holy Spirit we are in union with Christ. Several “in Christ” passages in the New Testament emphasize this union. This baptism, amongst other things, imputes the righteousness of Christ to the Christian (2 Cor. 5:21), eternal life, and so on. 2. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit resides in the body of the believer to enable him confront the old sin nature or “flesh”. • 1 Corinthians 6: 19, 20 – “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.” The “flesh” always seeks to control the Christian. But God the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer provides the power needed to cancel out the constant activity of the sin nature. The two are in constant opposition. • Galatians 5: 17 – “For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.” 3. The sealing ministry of the Spirit This ministry of the Holy Spirit highlights our security. • 2 Corinthians 1: 21, 22 – “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” See also Ephesians 1:13, Eph. 4: 30. The sealing is a mark of God’s ownership of the Christian, setting him apart as belonging to God. 4. Distribution of Spiritual gifts The Holy Spirit bestows on every believer at least one spiritual gift. • 1 Corinthians 12:11 – “All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.” Whichever gift is given to the Christian is a matter of divine prerogative. No one earns or deserves any gift but the Holy Spirit graciously bestows them. The Holy Spirit’s ministry in Christian living As previously mentioned the Christian is both God’s royal priest and ambassador. As royal priest he has been provided resources to function in that office: • Revelation 1: 6 – “and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.” • 1 Peter 2: 9 – “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” • 2 Corinthians 5: 20 – “Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ …” The Jewish age had a specialized priesthood: only members of the tribe of Levi could be priests and every other Israelite had to go through them to reach God. Unlike this, every church age believer is a priest. As a priest he represents himself to God. The Christian then does not need to go through anyone to reach God for worship, prayer, confession or any other priestly duty he needs to perform. He can “come boldly before the throne of grace” (Hebrews 4:16) because of this priesthood. As priests Christians must know what God demands of them and how to perform their priestly duties. It is in taking in the Word of God and growing up spiritually that this is accomplished. As ambassadors Christians represent God to man. Again the ‘terms of reference’ for this function is found in the Word of God. By speech and by life the Christian witnesses to the world about the kingdom he belongs to and of which he is a citizen and an ambassador – heaven. In enabling him fulfill these two-pronged functions the Holy Spirit works in the Christian in the following ways: 1. The Holy Spirit enables the Christian to understand the Word of God. As the “spirit of truth’ who Jesus said “will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13) the Holy Spirit makes clear to the Christian the Word of God. He makes the receptive Christian’s heart open to both receive the Word of God and also let it be formed in his heart for life application. He opens “the eyes” of our understanding to God’s revealed truth. • Ephesians 1: 18: - “I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people” • Ephesians 3: 16-19 – “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.” 2. The Holy Spirit brings out Christ’s character in the Christian • Galatians 5: 22, 23 – “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” The passage above shows the fruit the Holy Spirit will bear in the life of the Christian who allows him to control his life. Notice that it is said to be “the fruit of the Spirit”. It is what the Spirit produces. This one fruit with various expressions is brought out in the life of each one of God’s child. 3. The Holy Spirit strengthens the Christian The Christian is not immune to testing, pressures and adversities of life. The enabling power of the Holy Spirit helps him face and cope with these situations. • Ephesians 3:16 – “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being” 4. The Holy Spirit gives power to the Christian to pray aright • Romans 8:26 – “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.” 5. The Holy Spirit enables the Christian to remember and apply the Word to his daily living • John 14:26 – “the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” You may be going through some pressure of one type or the other and a passage such as “If God be for us who can be against us …” (Romans 8: 31) comes to mind. At such instances the Holy Spirit is bringing the Christian to recall the Word of God for him to apply to that particular situation he is facing. His attributes are ever at Work Being all-knowing, all-powerful and ever-present the Christian can rely on the Holy Spirit for wisdom (spiritual insight), power and presence to live his spiritual life. As the spirit of truth the Christian can rely on the Holy Spirit to give him the truths that will both make him grow up spiritually and also glorify God continually. As love, the Christian can be assured of the Holy Spirit’s constant and continuing love because He is eternal and changeless. The Christian can depend on the other attributes of the Holy Spirit to help him live his spiritual life the way God wants him to. He can always be sure that HELP is ever available from the HELPER. Jesus Christ promised that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. Maintaining the Power of the Spirit "Be filled with the Spirit" (Eph.5:18). The verse actually means - keep being filled. It's not a one time experience, but a daily refill, a recharge of our spiritual battery by perpetually coming to the Source of strength. (See Mat. 5:6). "Walk in the Spirit" (Gal.5:16). This calls for constant fellowship with the Holy Spirit, and being aware of His presence with us at all times. He is a Person. He will talk to you. Allow yourself to "Be led of the Spirit" (Gal.5:18). This calls for submission to His directions, to His will. We must permit Him to direct our lives. "Live in the Spirit" (Gal.5:25). By ensuring that he fulfils these two mandates the Christian ensures that the power of the Holy Spirit is always available to him. Closing Words The place of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian must not be underrated. He enters us into union with Christ, makes the Word of God understandable to us, provides and empowers us with spiritual gifts for our Christian walk and service, enables us to develop Christ-like characters, guides us and gives us the stability we need for life. A productive and successful Christian living can only be possible when the Christian allows the Holy Spirit to work in him and through him. As the ‘Helper’ he comes along side the Christian to encourage, strengthen, give help and resources needed to live the Christian life. The Christian must allow the Holy Spirit, our companion and guide, to constantly empower him if he is to live a fruitful and impactful life as a witness to the world and as he represents himself before God. PRESENTATION CONCLUDED 6 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by trustman: 5:59pm On Aug 14, 2014*. Modified: 6:32pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
[size=18pt]The Power of the Holy Spirit in Christian Living[/size] Part 1 – GOD’S POWER PROVISION FOR THE CHRISTIAN LIFE This paper seeks to look at the place or work of the Holy Spirit in enabling the believer live his Christian life as God intends for him. The first part will look at who and what the Holy Spirit is while the second part will deal more on his place in empowering the Christian to live as God would have him do. Acts 1:8 “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” The Christian life can be said to be a beyond-the ordinary kind of life. To be able to live this life God provided for the believer two main divine operating assets – the Word of God and the enabling power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of the supernatural power which along with the Word of God enables the Christian to live this beyond-the-ordinary kind of life. The Person of the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit is a person. The Holy Spirit is not some ‘influence’ or a ‘force’. He is as much a personality as God the Father and the Son. Unfortunately the use of the term “ghost” in some translations of the Bible makes it seem that He is not quite the personality that the Father and Son are. But this is not so. The word “ghost” is really a misleading translation of the Greek word pneuma, which means spirit. There is no word in the Greek for ghost. So the Holy Spirit is a true person in the sense that the father and Son are persons. “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” - 2 Corinthians 13: 14 “According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood” - 1 Peter 1:2 Since God is spirit the Father and Son are also spirit so the term spirit in relation to the Holy Spirit has to do with the distinct role of His person. The Holy Spirit as the unseen power of God is the one through whom the power of God is conveyed. He is therefore the one that reveals God to mankind and is the one who enables the Christian to execute his spiritual life to glorify God. The Holy Spirit is variously called “Spirit of holiness” (Romans 1:4), “Spirit of life” (Romans 8:20), “Spirit of truth” (John 14: 17), “Spirit of your father” (Matthew 10:20), “Spirit of Christ” and “Spirit of Jesus Christ (Romans 8: 9, Philippians 1:19) and many others. The Attributes of the Holy Spirit As God, the Holy Spirit possesses the same qualities and perfections which belong to the Godhead. The Holy Spirits attributes include sovereignty, love, eternal life, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, veracity, righteousness and justice. The function of any one of these attributes never compromises any other. In other words, God cannot for example, in the expression of His love ignore or disregard his justice. God’s love is always compatible with His justice. He loved the world so much but in his justice he still ensured that the penalty for sin was taken care of. Sovereignty means God is the Supreme Being of the universe. • Psalm 83: 18 – “That they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth” • Isaiah 45: 5-6 – “I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. • Acts 17: 24 – “The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man” See also Isaiah 11:2, Acts 28: 25. Love is the expression of the kindness of God. God is said to be love – 1 John 4:8 “God is love”. This means it is an integral part of who he is. For example, even though the Bible states that God so loved the world, before he created this world he loves he loved. So His love is not really a response to things or people. His love is something that is innate in Him. God’s love never diminishes or increases because He is changeless. God’s love exists with or without a created object because in eternity past he had always had this attribute. Eternal life is God’s self-existence. God exists eternally. His existence is unalterable. God has neither beginning, nor end. • Exodus 3: 14 – “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you’” • Deuteronomy 33: 27 – “The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms” • Job 36:26 – “Behold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable” • 1 Timothy 1:17 – “To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever. Amen.” • Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” Omniscience means God knows all the knowable. His knowledge is infinite. He is infinite in wisdom and understanding. He knows the end from the beginning. For example, God knows what would have happened if you were born at different times and places in history, yet he knows the exact one that will actually happen. God is not ‘surprised’ by any happenings. • Job 37: 16 – “Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge” • Psalm 139: 1-6, 12 – “O LORD, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high; I cannot attain it” … … “even the darkness is not dark to you; the night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you.” • Romans 11: 33 – “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! See also Psalm 147: 4, Hebrews 4: 13, 1 John 3:20 Omnipotence means God is all-powerful, limitless in ability, authority and power. God’s power is without measure. God’s exercise of his power is always consistent with every other attribute of his essence: Therefore even though God can do all He wills he may choose to limit the use of his omnipotence to conform to His plan and purpose at any point in time. • Genesis 17:1 – “When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless” • Luke 1:37 – “For nothing will be impossible with God” See also Genesis 18: 14, Job 42: 2, Matthew 19:26, Revelation 19: 6. Omnipresence means God is present everywhere. He is not limited by time or space. He is personally a witness to every activity of every creature everywhere. • Jeremiah 23: 23,24 – “Am I a God at hand, declares the LORD, and not a God far away? Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the LORD. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the LORD. • Proverbs 15: 3 – “The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.” See also Job 34: 21-22, Psalm 139: 8, Acts 17: 24b, 27. Immutability means God is neither capable of nor susceptible to change. He is unchangeable. He cannot change. His word and works are unchanging. • Malachi 3: 6 – “For I the LORD do not change; …” • Hebrews 1: 12 – “Like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” See also Psalm 102: 26-27, Ecclesiastes 3: 14, 1 Peter 1: 25. Veracity means God is absolute truth. He honors truth. He honors the truth of his Word in the soul of any Christian. • Psalm 25: 10 – “All the paths of the LORD are steadfast love and faithfulness, for those who keep his covenant and his testimonies.” • John 17: 3 – “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” See also Psalm 33: 4, John 14: 6, 17, 2 Corinthians 6: 7. Righteousness refers to the absolute integrity of God or holiness of God. He is absolute good. He is free from sin. He is perfect in character and person. He is perfect in his standards, attitudes and actions. • 1 Samuel 2:2 – “There is none holy like the LORD; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. • 1 John 1: 5 – “This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all” See also Psalm 25: 8, 1 John 2: 29. Justice is the function of God’s integrity. It is impossible for God to do anything that is unfair. He deals with all of his creation in fairness. • Deuteronomy 32: 4 – “The rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.” • Romans 3: 26 – “It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” See also 2 Chronicles 19; 7, Job 37: 23, Psalm 89: 14. It is important to understand who and what the Holy Spirit is (which we have briefly attempted to do here through His attributes) in order that his workings in the life of the Christian will be easier for the believer to grasp. After the point of salvation the Christian belongs to God; therefore he must seek to understand the thoughts and function of the God to whom he is now to relate in a more personal way. For example, because God’s Justice took care of the sin problem at the cross, he is free or faithful (veracity) when the Christian confesses his sins, to forgive and cleanse him from his sins – 1 John 1: 9. In so doing, God does not compromise any of his attributes in any way. Christian living is under two portfolios (offices) After salvation (the new birth) the Christian essentially functions in two ways – as a royal priest and as a royal ambassador (1 Peter 2:9). In these two areas the Holy Spirit has been provided to enable the Christian perform in such a way as to ultimately glorify God. When Jesus said in John 16: 7: “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you” he was pointing out that the Holy Spirit was crucial to his followers living the kind of life expected of them. They will come to see that He (the Holy Spirit) will be the one to enable them handle everything that will come at them and empower them for the Christian life. He (the Holy Spirit) is the only possible explanation how any of us can live the Christian life in a way that is acceptable to God. END OF PART 1, CONTINUED IN PART 2 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by trustman: 12:08am On Aug 14, 2014 |
Looking forward to a wonderful convention! 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 2:37pm On Aug 08, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F10: Name-a-Seed or Seed Faith doctrine[/size] Introduction I know of at least one Anglican Church here in Nigeria where the Vicar asks members to ‘sow seeds’ of faith and then ‘water’ the ‘seeds’ monthly to ensure that it grows well and produces the desired results. I do not know if this applies to the entire denomination or whether individual churches are fairly independent in some regards, but the bottom line is that it is now been practiced here. So for those who are still looking out for “when it finally enters Nigeria” what they need to do is simply open their eyes to see that all that we have been saying are already here. The simple truth is that WoF teachings have infiltrated virtually every church group and denomination in Nigeria, some to a lesser and others to a higher degree. Seed-Faith Theology What is “seed-faith” teaching? Seed-faith teaching is part of the WoF movement’s teaching that is tied to their claim that God wants to make every Christian healthy and wealthy in this life, and the means said to bring this prosperity about is “sowing seeds in faith”, and the ‘seed’ sown is money. Sowers are encouraged to “sow seeds” in order to have their needs met. “Planting a seed of faith” in WoF terms is in effect giving their ministries or a ‘man of God’ money with the hope that there will be some 60, 80 or 100-fold return on the money given. But it doesn’t stop there; salvation is also included as part of the harvest you will reap if only you would sow your money. It may come in different names such as ‘covenant seed’ and other variants, but the system is still the same. Modern Day “Indulgences” Many may be aware of times when the church literarily drifted off course in history. One of such time was when Johann Tetzel ‘operated’. The church needed lots of money to finance its bloated set ups. To raise this money it resorted to many gimmicks. The spiritual life of the people was secondary to what the clergy wanted. In order to support the lavish lifestyles of the clergy (like today’s?) the Pope Leo X sent out couriers who could sell “remission of sins” to the people. The more you can give the better your chances of having your sins done away with. Among these hawkers, and one of the most successful, was a man named Johann Tetzel. He engaged in selling "indulgences" in Germany in 1517. Tetzel stated that anyone who bought an indulgence could not only choose a soul to be freed from purgatory, but could shorten his own term in purgatory. His slogan to buyers was: "When the coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs." It was the selling of indulgences that eventually led Martin Luther not only to hold public debate but to later on nail his ‘objections’ to the church door which eventually led to the reformation. The indulgences of Luther’s time targeted what would appear to be a spiritual issue – obtaining pardon from sin. The ‘indulgences’ of today – seed faith and its variants – promises monetary or physical returns for money given; it’s for the here and now. At that time Luther stood on the ground that God’s favour was not for sale. Can we learn from history? Even though this kind of scheme has been carried out before in history (ref. Johann Tetzel -), Oral Roberts is reputed to be the originator of the modern trend [/b]we see today. [b]Joyce Meyer, one of his protégée said this, “When I talked with Dr. Roberts today and we talked about this seed-faith thing, he said…when you give you get a receipt in heaven that when you have a need you can then go with your receipt and say ‘You see, God, I have got my receipt from my sowing and now I have a need and I’m cashing in my receipt’” (Joyce Meyer, Praise the Lord, TBN, November 3, 2003). Roberts has used the seed-faith scheme to raise several millions of dollars; its that ‘profitable’. Rod Parsley said that for only $50 sent to Parsley’s ministry: “Salvation for your family….Is that what you really want, to know that all of your children are saved, to pillow your head at night knowing if Jesus split the eastern sky, that your children are all within the ark of safety? Is that what you want? Then sow for it.” “I believe God will give you a harvest of protection from deception and an uncommon ability to discern between truth and error in your life….First, God is going to release to you the ability to hear and recognize His voice as never before. Second, protection over your decisions. I’m believing with you for one year of no bad choices in your life. Finally, thirdly, protection from the deception of the adversary” (Rod Parsley, Breakthrough, TBN, May 24, 2006). Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute, lists the following as those who teach this theology, in addition to Roberts, Meyer, and Parsley: Essek William Kenyon, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, John Hagee, Creflo Dollar, T. D. Jakes, Frederick K. C. Price, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Marilyn Hickey, Charles Capps, Jerry Savelle, Morris Cerullo, Paul Crouch, Juanita Bynum, Paula White, and Todd Bentley (Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century, Thomas Nelson: Nashville, 2009, p15-82) Imagine being in a service and the "man of God" claims to have received a special word from God that goes something like this: "As I waited on the Lord in the place of prayer in preparation for today’s meeting the Holy Ghost came on me strongly and told me that there are many people here tonight that are believing God for something special. Some of you have been trusting God for a long time for that special thing. God has told me to tell you that if you obey him this night and plant a seed faith of N1,000 or more God is going to intervene in that your situation and that your special need will be miraculously met! In the name of Jesus!" Words like these sure have a way of getting anyone to give! Giving to get back in return all that you desire is something that is too good for many to let pass by them. In our world of WIIFM (What’s In It For Me?) the upfront offer of the benefit becomes very alluring to anyone particularly those who trust that their leaders are always right. This is what seed-faith preachers do. The teaching is in opposition to GRACE, pressuring Christians into works as a way to earning either God’s approval or getting things from Him. All that we receive from God is on the basis of what Christ did on the cross. Tying it to man’s work disregards grace. The teaching of seed-faith is a well crafted scheme by these WoF teachers to fleece the sheep of God, making them live in opulent lifestyles while impoverishing the flock just as it happened before in church history. Modern day WoF preachers present these catchphrases not for the good of the followers but to enable them build bigger structures, promote the kind of image of their ministries that they want, acquire camp grounds to belong to an elite class of ‘men of God’ and of course live lives of luxury beyond the rest of the flock in contrast to what Jesus did with his disciples. A look a Bible Passage used to prove their claim A number of bible passages are used by these WoF teachers to support their claim on this teaching. One of them is Luke 6:38: “Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”. WoF preachers claim that this means when one gives to their ministries and by extension God, that such a one will receive things back in return. But does that passage teach that? The direct context of this verse (6:37-42) is judging others and forgiveness. Thus the giving in mind here is that of extending mercy rather than any reference giving of money or any other material thing. In addition, the reward referred to here is not explicitly stated to be in physical or material things, therefore tying it to monetary reward or physical blessings as the WoF teachers do is a wrong application of this portion of scripture. WoF teachers’ way of interpreting scripture is suspect. Instead of using line upon line, precept upon precept they just simply choose what they want verse or portion of scripture to say and run by it. The use of such a system to present a ‘doctrine’ that ends up conning people out of their money is not only unbiblical but evil. The NT model for giving As has been stated previously in these our discourses, the pattern for giving for the Christian is quite clear in the NT. The Christian is to give as he decides in his heart, not reluctantly or UNDER COMPULSION – 2 Corinthians 9: 6-8. The seed-faith teaching violates the scripture given above. Its teachers in most instances coerce believers to give. They stress that the seed faith giving facilitates God’s response; it acts as a catalyst to move God to act. That is getting people to give UNDER COMPULSION. See Paul’s example 2 Corinthians 12: 14-15a – “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls.” I wonder how many of the WoF preachers can truly say this today. Some Dangers - Like indulgences, contemporary seed-faith teachers are offering not just spiritual blessings but also material blessings for sale as well. For God to intervene in your situation you must pay for it. God’s blessing has essentially been reduced to a business transaction. The bigger your seed is the bigger your expected harvest will be. - It plays down the dangers of wealth. Wealth can be a barrier to salvation. The gospel account of Jesus meeting the rich young ruler in Matthew 19:16-26 clearly shows this. The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil – 1 Timothy 6:8-10: “If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” People will do awful things to gratify their monetary lust. So the Scripture gives us this warning. - It undermines God’s purposes of suffering in the life of the believer. Whereas the WoF and seed-faith teaching says that God desires only for us to be healthy, happy, and wealthy the reality is that not only is that not so but God actually uses suffering to advance the believer. Acts 14:22 says: “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.” Conclusion Christian giving should be out of a pure motivation not from a desire to get more and more. Christian giving is not only monetary. In Matthew 25: 31-40 the acts of visiting those in prison, giving food and drink, welcoming strangers, clothing the naked, etc were commended by Jesus. The WoF preachers on the other hand majorly emphasize the giving of money. These wrong teachings about how the Christian is to give need to be done away with. Martin Luther’s protest against the wrong things the church was doing during his time is still very relevant today as many have gone back to the same paths as the church did then. Giving money to get something in return from God is like the selling of indulgences, whether the name has changed to seed-faith or whatever. It is wrong. I REST MY CASE ON F10, FOR NOW. 7 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: My Pentecostal Experience by trustman: 12:10pm On Aug 08, 2014 |
Gombs: your case is worse than i thought... you love stories eh!You sure like fights!! 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 12:24am On Aug 08, 2014 |
Candour: When I mentioned positive confessions, I was just looking at the opposite of the negative confessions that our brother therealmccain talked about. He gave the following examples of negative wordsThe bolded again shows how very critical it is to get the CONTEXT of any Bible passage right. Right interpretation, right application. Wrong interpretation, wrong application. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 9:48pm On Aug 07, 2014 |
Candour: Thank you for this beautiful work done here! 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 9:27pm On Aug 06, 2014 |
nannymcphee: 2corinthian5:212 Corinthians 5:21 Contemporary English Version puts it this way: "Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so that Christ could make us acceptable to God". My complete post is as follows: WoF teachers' theory about the cross is that when Jesus died on the cross he became "sin" and was imputed with Satan's nature, abandoned by the Father, and went to hell for three days and three nights where he was tortured by the devil. According to most of the well known WoF teachers, Jesus did not complete his work of redemption upon the cross. Nowhere in the Bible is that taught nor the story that Jesus was tormented by Satan in hell.First, let’s look at an Old Testament prototype – the Day of Atonement (Leviticus16) and indeed all the other animal sacrifices. The animals involved did not become the sinners. They were only ‘imputed’ with the sins of the people. The animals died the death the people deserved even though they committed no sin directly. On the cross, Jesus died for our sins. In other words he died the death we all deserve because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). He paid the penalty for every sin ever committed. He was treated as if he was guilty of mankind's sins. The sins of mankind were judged in him on the cross. That is the sins of mankind were charged to the impeccable humanity of Christ. That DID NOT MAKE him a sinner. He remained holy all through. That is why i said again: Therefore Jesus did not take on a satanic nature at the cross. As the sin offering under the New Covenant he remained pure, righteous and holy on the cross.In addition, the One mankind sinned against is God not the devil. God did not and still does not owe the devil any payment. Therefore to claim that the devil was in anyway involved in the resolution of mankind's sin problem is completely unfounded. As for the rest of your post i hope my complete initial posting above should have put it in proper perspective. 5 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 8:06am On Aug 06, 2014 |
nuwell: I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.Quite right. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 3:10pm On Aug 05, 2014 |
Image123: Are you saying she/he is not a christian? Because she/he is not all glory alleluia about your thread?  1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 2:08pm On Aug 05, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: ... ... ...Absolutely. Why something that the Bible clearly presents in bad light will now be used by many to justify their position beats the imagination. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 7:51pm On Aug 04, 2014*. Modified: 8:46pm On Aug 04, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F9: Name it.. Claim it... doctrine[/size] What it’s all about Name it & claim it is a major practice of the word of faith movement. In fact in many instances the movement is actually known or called by that name – Name it and Claim it theology. We have previously noted that the WoF redefined many issues creating in the process a gospel that focuses on human potential for creating its own reality. This current consideration is still intertwined with much of what we have noted earlier about the movement. The WoF adherents falsely claim that man’s spoken words will magically bring about whatever the speaker desires. Basically the idea is that if you say you’re going to be or have something, you’ll have. It is "You can have what you say" theology. The WoF slogans include “What you profess, you possess” and “Confession brings possession”. No matter how well-sounding those catchphrases are, you will not find them in the Bible. Word of Faith teachers allege that what you say determines everything that happens to you. The WoF movement may claim they ask God for what they desire, but it is ACTUALLY the pronouncements they make that they believe decides the outcome of things. So rather than trust God and leave things to him to decide what is needful and what to give to His children they allege that the ‘spoken word’ does the magic. Their logic for this is derived from their belief that man possesses the same intrinsic creative power as God. Therefore man can ‘speak’ things into being much the same way as God used spoken words to create as is recorded in the Bible. However, they fail to truly acknowledge that God completely transcends all creation, including man; therefore any comparison between God and man is only analogical and can never be on an equal basis. See again what some of the proponents say: Paul Yonggi (David) Cho: “By the spoken word we create our universe of circumstances...." (Solving Life's Problems, p. 51) Kenneth Copeland states: “By getting the Word deep into your spirit and speaking it boldly out your mouth, you release spiritual power to change things in the natural circumstances” (The Power of the Tongue, 15). “You have the same creative faith and ability on the inside of you that God used when he created the heavens and the earth” (Copeland, Inner Image of the Covenant, side 2.) Joyce Meyer states: “The Lord recently showed me that we can bless or curse the financial seed we sow. We can speak positively about our financial future, or we can say things like, ‘I can’t afford it’ . .. ‘Every time I turn around something happens to take my money’. . . . We should water our giving with the water of His word and expect an abundant harvest. Sow your seed and speak prosperity scriptures over your finances” (Joyce Meyer, “Your Mouth is a Weapon,” Life in the Word March 1997, p. 4.) If ‘the spoken word’ does the creation of our circumstances then there is really no need to pray. But is that really what the Bible teaches or is that a spiritual practice found in some other religion. Link with New Age Movement and others The WoF movement misinterprets and misrepresents portions of Scripture, as a result they come up with teachings and positions that resemble those of cults and the New Age Movement. Many researchers into the WoF movement have come up with this conclusion. These same concepts - controlling the ‘spiritual realm’ through visualization or words to bring about material results have been used by shamans, witch doctors and occultists for thousands of years. So we see how what is called in the occult by different names but is simply that thoughts, spoken words, or visualization properly done will “manifest' in the physical world is carried into the Word of Faith teaching of speaking and confessing. Motivational preaching which emphasizes the power of the mind and will over circumstances rather than looking to God has become more prevalent in WoF churches and others that have ‘imported’ their ideas. They may talk about ‘prayer’, ‘faith’ and other biblical issues but it is the daily rituals of ‘positive confessions’, etc which focus more on the spoken word that is the greater center of attention than anything else. These same concepts/teachings are what we find in the mind sciences and New Age Movement. Link between WoF Proponents and New Thought It is significant to note that the founder of the New Thought philosophy, Phineas Quimby, is the man E.W. Kenyon studied under and adopted his ideas. These same beliefs were later picked up and copied by Kenneth Hagin. Both Hagin and his devotee Kenneth Copeland made these teachings fashionable in the church. Their successive disciples have further spread this ‘gospel’ of name it, claim it. A look at Romans 4:17 – a scripture on which Name it, claim it hinges Let’s look at how WoF preachers take Scripture out of context to mean something that was never intended. Joyce Meyer: “Romans 4:17 says God gives life to the dead and speaks of the nonexistent things as if they already existed. He created the world with faith-filled words (see Genesis 1). We are created in His image, and we can also call things that are not as though they are. We can speak positive thoughts about ourselves into the atmosphere and thereby ‘prophesy our future” (Joyce Meyer, “Your Mouth is a Weapon,”(Life in the Word March 1997, p. 4) The WoF preachers, like we see above, quote part of Romans 4:17 for support of their assertion or twist the verse in its entirety. What is usually quoted is ““who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;” However, a good look at the portion shows that the person who does these things is – God. The portion is talking about God as the one who “calls those things which do not exist as though they did. But WoF devotees assign to themselves what has been attributed to God. Because they have deified man, and reduced God to the level of man, it is easy for WoF adherents to misapply scriptures like this one without ‘seeing’ their error. This portion of the Bible is a statement about God: It is neither a promise nor an instruction by God to believers. Final Words The name-it-and-claim-it theology has so much to do with occult and pagan practice and beliefs, including metaphysical and Mind sciences. Even though there is certainly some connection between our mental state and what we experience (e.g. the issue of psychosomatic illnesses, etc), and while a positive mental attitude definitely has its part to play in a person’s life, the Name it and claim it pack has gone way too far with this, turning it into some form of voodooism. The idea that we can just name-it-and-claim-it to create our own reality is not biblical Christianity. Christians need to be quite concerned about this. Christians are to be dependent on the one who alone is omnipotent – God, and not think that man is self-sufficient and can bring about things on his own. I REST MY CASE ON F9, FOR NOW. 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by trustman: 3:25pm On Aug 04, 2014 |
I assure you that OLAADEGBU will soon 'disappear' again, even if for a while. I doubt if he has any more arsenal for responding to these posts. 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 14 Lies About Tithes That You Should Know About. by trustman: 8:48am On Aug 04, 2014 |
Gombs: Was he lying? Can't prayer cure all diseases that has a name? Are u sure u are Christian?He does not need to put up a propaganda. Let him just go to where Ebola patients are and heal them - if he can. 4 Likes |
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