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obadiah777: WE GOT TOO MANY ARCHAEOLOGISTS UP IN HERE YALL DIGGING UP POSTS MADE IN 70 BC

and in what spirit were you then?

frosbel: The demons unlike you knew that Jesus Christ is not GOD.


"What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?"—Matthew 8:29

"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God."—Mark 1:24, Luke 4:34

"You are the Son of God."—Mark 3:11

"You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.—Luke 4:41

"What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me."—Luke 8:28, Mark 5:7


Based on the evidence above , it is apparent that the demons never considered Jesus to be GOD , otherwise they would have called him so.


About trembling , let us hear what James had to say ?

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." - James 2:19


What can't you Trinitarians understand ?

I tell you what , you guys are so glued to false tradition it is scary.

hisblud: @ijawkid oops sorry i have not come across such spurious rendering of that verse, kindly render it accordingly ko! Waiting to see the correct rendering thanks. Just 1tim3:16

ijawkid: You act like you're a new comer..........have you replied frosbel??.....

frosbel: He dare not

hisblud: let me see the correct rendering first which will correct the "spurious" rendering of 1 tim3.16. Thank you

you went to see one verse of the bible and close your eyes to the truth abi?

Even the Demons that were former angels in heaven that knows the truth and even said it to Jesus will be wrong and Jesus will be wrong as to his identity abi?

But men that lived about 300yrs(3ce) that adopted the trinity from greek philosophers will know more than the former angels and Jesus himself?

I pity for you guys indeed.

Satan has used trinity to destroy christiandom and you cannot still see it.

Peoples life, are at stake and you still cant see it.

Men and women will go to church from infancy to old age and will still not know the bible and even know who God is and you cant still see it?

You know why? Satan has blinded them and you all with the Trinity = mystery.

If your God is a mystery, how will you all not be in "mystery land"?

Come out and leave trinity so that your eyes will open.
Peace

hisblud: let me see the correct rendering first which will correct the "spurious" rendering of 1 tim3.16. Thank you

frosbel: The demons unlike you knew that Jesus Christ is not GOD.


"What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?"—Matthew 8:29

"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God."—Mark 1:24, Luke 4:34

"You are the Son of God."—Mark 3:11

"You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.—Luke 4:41

"What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me."—Luke 8:28, Mark 5:7


Based on the evidence above , it is apparent that the demons never considered Jesus to be GOD , otherwise they would have called him so.


About trembling , let us hear what James had to say ?

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." - James 2:19


What can't you Trinitarians understand ?

I tell you what , you guys are so glued to false tradition it is scary.

thank you my brother.

hisblud: this is deep!

what is deep?

Anony has a personal problem since he prays to Jesus and not to Yahweh through Jesus christ in disobedince to the instruction that prayers should be directed to the father through the son:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:9-10)..

That ^^^ is the model prayer. A model on how to pray.

If you dont follow it you are on your own.
Peace

hisblud: @Anon and others
i have been reading on the sideline all the posting and i must commend you all for trying to lay this matter as clearly as possible. The more boomark and co try to show the All "Oneness" of God, yet you see more scriptures showing God as a "multipersonal Entity" mysteriously unknown yet being known -what a contradiction, eh? Ok lets all take this out for starts which mrAnony has requested and then we build from there: ok lets start with the bolded...

those your bolded, though we know what it means and we also know that they are not bible "based word" but are said to be conceptual, are you saying that the bible cannot be understood without considering those words?

Is it possible that God forgot to include those specifics and definition in his word the bible?

If God did not make use of those exact word as define, did he said it will then be impossible to understand the bible?

Without the use of those human choice of word(omnipotent, Omni this and Omni that)
and the human choice of the word trinity there will be no salvation abi?

If not, i prefer to stick to the bible and what it says.

This added definition has ended up creating confussion where there was no confussion.

God does not need help from any human to add to his word the bible.
Peace.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Oh good! I love this response because it gives us an opportunity to study scripture. Now let us look at who Christ is

Omnipotent: Jesus is Omnipotent. John 1:1-3

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Note that this was before Christ came to earth. . . . .Without Christ there could not have been any creation. This verse clearly shows us an uncreated being at the beginning who is with God and is God. The only way this verse can make sense is if God is a multi-personal being.
If God is not a multi-personal being then you would have 2 Gods at the beginning and one of the Gods couldn't create except with the help of the other God. This is blasphemy.

Now I know some versions use the words "all things were made through Him" instead of "by Him" and I know that my barrister friend will probably jump on the word that is why I have taken time to point out that you would still have the same problem because you would be saying that one God could not create without working through another God. Blasphemy again.

Also for those who say that the Word is a god. and was created first then used as a tool to create everything else. I will call you to pay attention to the verse.
The verse says "in the beginning was the Word" (in the same way Gen 1:1 says in the beginning God).
It goes on to say that the Word was existing with God (notice that the verse clearly points that the same way God existed from the beginning, the Word was with Him not having a beginning).
Next it goes on to say "the Word was God" (I know you guys say the Word was "a god" it continues restating again in verse 2 that this Word was in the beginning with God (not the first created thing)
It continues - All things were made by(or if you prefer "through" Him and without Him (the Word) there was nothing made that was made (notice how it phrases it. Without the Word, there was NOTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE). So if you insist on arguing that the Word was made, you must provide that through which it was made from because I don't know how you can make something through itself.

As we read on, we see that this same Word that is uncreated and who without Him nothing would exist came to the earth as the man Jesus Christ. I don't need to tell you all the miracles He did because I'm sure you know them.

The above exegesis of John 1:1 now makes sense of Phil 2:6-7

......Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. KJV

.....Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. NIV

....Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, NLT

It shows us clearly that Jesus(the Word) is God. The exact same attributes, the exact same nature as God but He chose to humble Himself and not employ His God priviledges by taking the form of feeble man. (I know Barrister has contested the word 'chose' but the verse is clear that He made himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant).

I think the amplified version translates it beautifully.

Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. AMP


(I can't tell you how excited I am at this point, I am holding myself back from typing a long sermon like my brother Ihedinobi likes to do but I'll continue. I hope that you actually do read it and not simply ignore it)

Continuing.....

Now we know who Christ is before He humbled Himself and came to earth, let us now look at the kind of person He was. Notice at this point that Christ as a man did not have His God privileges but was living in humility. In this state, it makes perfect sense to pray to the Father and to give glory to Him.
The fact that the two of them are jointly and equally God does not mean that they are competing over seniority. The Word here which is God was simply playing the role of the humble Son. In fact before the coming of Christ, God was simply known as God. The whole Father and Son business started when one Person of God came and started referring to the other person of God as Father and Himself as Son because He was the 'sent' one and was giving glory to the 'sender'.

Consider Isaiah's prophecy:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Notice the titles of this one child that will be born to us. They are all the titles we use to describe both God the Father (Everlasting Father, Mighty God), the Son (Prince of Peace) and the Holy Ghost (Wonderful Counselor). Essentially what Isaiah is saying is that God will be born in the flesh.

Also consider another of Isaiah's prophecies

All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’). Isaiah 7:14

It is very clear that whenever Isaiah talks about the birth of Christ he is essentially saying that God will come. He doesn't talk about it as a father sending his son because in the old testament, they did not have such a concept.

Now read Matthew 1:22-23 and we see that Christ was a fulfillment of that prophecy. Essentially Christ is God in the flesh. This is why when Jesus says that He is the Son of God, the pharisees immediately knew what He was implying (i.e. God born in the flesh)

So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God. [/i]John 5:18


Another thing again I would draw your attention to are the kind of statements Jesus was making while on earth and the authority with which He was making them. He was making statements that no prophet or angel could ever dare to make. I want you to pay attention to what Jesus is saying and how He is saying it.

[i]“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. John 14:12-14

Notice He is essentially saying have faith in me, pray to me, and I will answer your prayer. This will bring glory to the Father.

If after this, you still insist that the Father and the Son are not both jointly and equally God, then you will have to explain why God will be glorified when you pray to someone else and that someone else answers your prayer.

In fact when you read John 14 altogether, you see Christ telling the apostles things like "if you see me you have seen God, if you know me, you have known the Father".

Let us move even further and I'll show you some more places where Christ does something that no prophet or angel can dare to do.

Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
Luke 7:48-49
I want you to think about this for a second. Remember that this was in a time when to receive forgiveness of sin you had to kill a goat as sacrifice to God while wearing sackcloth and ashes fasting and repenting in tears.

.........and yet this "son of a carpenter" just casually forgives it. That is why the Jews marveled. Jesus had just done something that only God had the right to do.

Let us look at some more:
Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the Lord of the Sabbath. (Matthew 12:. In fact let me quote it so you see how He said it.

".......For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” I have highlighted the word 'even' to show that it signifies that He is not merely Lord of the Sabbath but that the Sabbath is one of the many things that are subject to Him.

Once again I would like you to look at it in context. Imagine that you were a Jew living at that time. This is one of the strict commandments of God which is punishable by death if broken. You probably know someone who was stoned to death for being foolish enough to break the Sabbath. All of a sudden, this Rabbi shows up and says that God's law is subject to him. What is he implying?

One more evidence of Christ's authority....

We see Christ talking about the Holy Spirit and He says

".....However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you." John 16:13-15

Essentially what Jesus has said here is that He shares all the Father's attributes. If you read that chapter, we come across a very interesting relationship.

verse 7: Jesus sends the Spirit of God.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

verse 13: The Spirit of God will only speak based on Jesus' authority.
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Does this sound familiar to when Jesus says he does not speak from His own authority but only what He learnt from the Father? I think it does.

Does it now mean that therefore Jesus is greater than the Holy Spirit because Jesus is the sender and the Holy Spirit is teaching Jesus' message? No it does not.

Another passage (John 14:16-17) shows that Jesus will pray to the Father to send the Spirit. Do the two verses contradict? No.

So who exactly is sending the Spirit and who exactly is the Spirit "learning from" and revealing to us? The Father or The Son? Answer: Both. They are the same Being!



To be continued.......

(mind you we are still talking about the omnipotence of Jesus Christ)[/quote]what was all that about?
There was no capital and lower case alphabet in hebrew alphabet. QED.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]This here is a very poor and cowardly answer. It is either God is all-powerful and all-knowing or there is someone more powerful and more knowledgeable than God. If you shirk away from admitting that God is all powerful, then essentially you are leaving room for the possibility of one more powerful than God. So which is it? Is God all-powerful and all-knowing or is He not?



Lol, so Wisdom is now the same as the Son of God? Even funnier, the Son of God is now a 'she'?
I hope you do realize that Proverbs is poetry and wisdom used there is merely an act of personification. Please don't cherry-pick beat scripture into shape.
Let's look at the next verse


Is David now the same as the Son of God? Please read the whole chapter don't just lift verses out of context.




Notice the implication of what you are saying here: You are insinuating that God who will not share His glory with anyone and permit anyone to worship anything else apart from Him is suddenly granting someone else the authority to receive worship and share His glory. The funny part is that when we read John 17, we find that this glory was actually always been shared from before the world began.What makes Christ so special? It is either Christ is God or there are two Gods receiving worship in Heaven one greater than the other.[/quote]dont lie and say that that prophesy at the book of Psalm was for david because david was not even a first born son but a last born.



[quote author=Mr_Anony]Notice the implication of what you are saying here: You are insinuating that God who will not share His glory with anyone and permit anyone to worship anything else apart from Him is suddenly granting someone else the authority to receive worship and share His glory. The funny part is that when we read John 17, we find that this glory was actually always been shared from before the world began.What makes Christ so special? It is either Christ is God or there are two Gods receiving worship in Heaven one greater than the other.[/quote]you are the one the one that is not content with the scriptures that is why you bring in video and logic.

After Jesus left the earth he was rewarded and exalted to a high level and that is why we have this:

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (Exodus 6:3).

And then this:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6).
............

It will then be your word against that of Yahweh.

Want you see that Yahweh is almighty while Jesus is mighty?

The word God can be attained by all that receives worshipful honor, it is a title.

Even satan is also called go2.

But we are talking about who is the universal sovereign.

Who is the almighty God.

Is Jesus = Yahweh?

Stop running around with the title "God"

BARRISTERS: @Mr Anony

deny this one by one, i will still supply more;

If Jesus were the “true” God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― why would he need to request from himself legions of angels,

“Do you think I cannot call on my Father and he will at once put at my disposal more than 12 legions of angels?” (Matthew 26:53 King James Version)

Apparently Matthew did not consider that Jesus was God because Matthew clearly said it was the Father not Jesus who granted the sons of Zebedee to sit at the right and left of Jesus in heaven as he wrote:

“It is not mine to grant but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” (Matthew 20:20-23 KJV)

THINK! If Jesus was God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― he could have anyone he wanted to sit beside him in heaven.

If Jesus was God, why did he cry out:

“My Father, if it is possible may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will but as you will”,

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 26:39 & 27:46 KJV)

Jesus, knowing he was going to die, showed who was his superior. He prayed in the garden (not to himself):

“Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me, not by my will, but yours.” (Luke 22:42 KJV)

Luke continues:

“Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” (Luke 23:46 KJV)

Would God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― need to beg and cry to himself to save himself from death? Jesus offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the one who was supposedly able to save him from death! Apparently Jesus was not crying to himself! I wonder how Christians, who maintain Jesus was God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― and even God incarnate, explain him crying to himself. Maybe it was just for dramatic effect in future “Passion” plays and movies. THINK Christians, THINK!

When Jesus was near death on the cross, Mark wrote that Jesus cried out:

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me.” (Mark 15:34 KJV)

Was Jesus co-equal to God then? Was Jesus God then? Was Jesus God incarnate then?

Even John had trouble associating Jesus to being the one and only God. John showed a Jesus that insist that the Father is the “only true God” ― the Invisible Man in the Sky. The gospel of John claims Jesus spoke:

“Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son - as you have given him power over all flesh”

John continues:

“…know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (John 17:1-3 KJV)

Time and time again, Jesus showed that he was separate from God; having a God above him, a God whom he worshiped and a God whom he called “Father.” Ergo, Jesus is subordinate to God and was neither God, nor God incarnate!

Jesus supposedly made statements such as:

“The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19 KJV)

Jesus states that he and God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― are two separate beings as he said:

“I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me.” (John 8:18 KJV).

As the Son of God he could not be God himself, for John says:

“No one has ever seen God at anytime.” (John 1:18)

The New Testament is very clear about the relationship of God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― to Jesus and Jesus could never be co-equal with God in power or strength. Why would John say Jesus told Mary that he considered her Father as his Father and her God as his God?

“Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father…I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17 KJV)

John sums it up when he wrote,

“I (Jesus) go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 KJV)

Mark did not believe that Jesus was the “true God” either. Mark's Jesus said to the women,

“Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.” (Mark 10:17-18 KJV)

^^^

such ^^^ is the trinity, the central doctrine of the religion of christiandom.

Well done barrister.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, no it isn't.

The verse does not say that unless we physically see God that we won't know Him rather it says that our knowledge of God to day is like blurry vision but the time will come when our vision will be made clear and we will know God fully. Notice that vision/seeing is being used as a simile for knowing.

Let us not play the translation vs translation game. I have shown you multiple translations that show that the verse is talking about knowledge of God. Even the KJV is referring to the knowledge of God though it does not mention God explicitly.[/quote]that place was talking about "when that which is complete arrives"

so God is that which is complete?

It is funny that some people will want to accept that God can either forget or make mistake that we will be completing his work for him.

Now, which "knowledge" are you using to complete that verse to mean "seeing God" since the old manuscript did not do that? is it still the incomplete knowledge that you have befor "seeing" God?

Since according to you we need to see God befor coming to "knowledge" dont you think that should make you and your co translators to exercise a little restrained?

But no. You will rather use your incomplete knowledge to add and deduce scriptures all over the place.

Since we "cannot know God" now according to you.

Why then should any body be bordered about God at the first place?

Why should God even say he will kill those that are not interested in knowing him since it is an impossible act?

Why even border to preach to people that are not Jews or preach to atheist here on NL?

On what basis will people be Judge on since knowing him is impossible until we see him?

Dont you think we are the most confused people?

Men, you are on your own.

plaetton: [/b]



And how do you that they are not equal in power? Because you are cheering for Yahweh?
Satan seems to be way ahead in scores.
What do you think?

how can the created be in the same might with the one that created him, his creator?

Did you not read that he will be turned to ashes?

Na wao!

Boomark: thanks.

Luke 21:29 did the work. Just want to be sure they are not two different persons who are mighty in heaven.

Jesus is archangel Michael.

it will only clear up the scriptures for you.

And that result in more faith since no more "perceived" contradictions.
Peace

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR BRAH

AMOS 3 VS 6 shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? <<<<< THE LORD IS THE ONE WHO DIRECTS EVIL TO APPROPRIATE PEOPLE

PROVERBS 16 VS 4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

LAMENTATIONS 3 VS 38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good ? <<<< LORD DIERCTS EVIL TO WHOMEVER DESERVES IT. YOU DO ERR

ISAIAH 45 VS 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things <<< CREATES EVIL TOTAL CONTRADICTION TO YOUR POINT 'GOD DOES NOT CAUSE EVIL' <<< I GUESS YOU ARE READING A DIFFERENT VERSION OF THE BIBLE CALLED 'HEATHEN BIBLE' WHO YOU THINK CREATED KATRINA AND HURRICANE SANDY AND THE JAPAN EARTHQUAKE ? MAN ? THE LORD DID THAT. ITS JUDGEMENT

"Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity." (Job 34:10).
...................

You sure need to put those scriptures into context.

obadiah777: THOSE QUOTES ARE FROM JOB, AN ELECT OF ISRAEL, NOT HIS ADVISERS. THATS THE LORD SPEAKING THROUGH JOB. AND YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES TRUTHISLIGHT. THE ONLY TIME EVIL WILL HAPPEN TO THE RIGHTEOUS IS IF THE RIGHTEOUS DABBLE IN EVIL

PSALMS 125 VS 3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. << ONLY IF THE RIGHTEOUS PUT THEIR HAND INTO INIQUITY IS WHEN EVIL WILL COMPASS THEM. YOU DO ERR *SMDH*

even job was initially wrongly saying/thinking that he is being punished by God befor he was corrected.

That was the reasons why God asked him all those questions, where he was when God created things?

You can belief whatever you wish.

Just dont let your belief in God be shattered when you see righteouse children and men like Jesus and his apostles being punish and killed.
Peace

Boomark: @truthislight and troguun


Hebrew 1v5 has proven that Michael and Christ are different persons. One is an angel while that other is not.

there is what is call a mind set and that is your case.

You have no case nor do you have an issue here.

Rather, you are acting more like the trinitarian that close there heart to the truth.

(well, you were a trinitarian not too long ago, may take some time to throw away some of the illusion)

Goshen360: ^^^ My brother, you are not bothering me. I have stated my stance here on the "Trinity of God" in the past. The Apostles NEVER used the word "Trinity" but they believe the Father is God; the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God - all with scriptures. Hence, in a nutshell, the Apostles never used the word trinity but the concept they preached and believed.

yes, the father is almighty God Yahweh.
Exodus 6:3

The son is mighty God and a servant of Yahweh:

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified His servant, Jesus, whom you, for your part, delivered up....
.....................

Well, about the third entity the holy spirit.

It is no where identify as a god in the bible like the bible did for Yahweh and Jesus christ.

The holy spirit is not identify as a person as the bible does Yahweh and Jesus christ.

This is the apostles idea of who Jesus was.

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified His servant, Jesus, whom you, for your part, delivered up....
......................


The word "God" by the way is a title that even human and satan bears.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:4).
...........

So,
TRINITY is one of those none apostolic teachings that is now in the end day Church.
Peace

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If you say that God is love, then who was He loving before creation? Himself? Or did He only start loving after He had created?[/quote]those are your vain opinion.

This is what the bible says :

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " (John 3:16).

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, you guys read the bible with an "anti-trinity" bias so even where there are clear scripture showing us that Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is God, you heartily ignore them so I will tell you the same thing I have told Barrister. Please define God. Lay out His attributes. Point out out those things that only God can possess and if Christ does not possess them, we can conveniently drop the whole "trinity" issue.[/quote]i thing you are getting confuse with the word/title "God".

Please, we have the "almighty" God = Yahweh
Exodus 6:3

and we have Jesus christ as reference as "mighty" God.
Isaiah 9:6.

Even satan also carry the title god in the bible.
2cor 4:4.

So, you are saying that Jesus is Yahweh, abi?

(pls, lets stick with the name of the almighty(Yahweh) and work with that so that the word "God" does not confuse Anony.)

mkmyers45: I think you should just shut up, Because humans cant at the moment replicate it makes it impossible?...DeepSight has refused to categorically pin-point evidence for the cause of Virtual Particles and is saying Perfect Vaccum could not have existed despite the evidence but he believes in Ancient Aliens with his evidences?

my atheist friend.

You know what? Emotions has a way of bring out the real person inside.

When next you denied that you are not an atheist be ready to get some home truth from me.

mkmyers45: Its amazing that you speak of it so when scientist are close to replicating it in a lab..0kelvin is impossible? No its just not practical now..Perfect Vaccum's are possible just like Ancient Aliens are abi na lie?

when you are called an atheist you denied.

Keep living in denial.

You post here speaks volume.

If you lie this much i dont know why some one should be taking you seriously.

Reyginus: No. It is not. Only that the whole thing seem pre-planed.

i dont play dirty.

You only saw me here because the bible was quoted.

Logicboy03: @truthislight



Sharaap.

do you really have a functional brain upstairs?

Have you ever been into drugs?

What actually went wrong with you?

How can your type mixed up in a decent society of people?

What and where did this all happened to you.

Logicboy03: You have nothing to say. You claim that false christianity leads many to atheism but is there any true christianity?

What is true christianity?


Trinity or human Jesus?

Tithe or not to tithe?

Catholic or protestant?

silent is the best answer for a.........

plaetton: So demons are different from satan?

yes.

Demon are disobedient angels that rebel against Yahweh's rulership.

Satan is the gang leader of the rebel and more powerful.

Angels have hyrachy.

The cherubs

the saraphs

etc etc.

Satan was a saraph, a very powerful class of angel.

plaetton: You seem to imply that yahweh and satan are two competing foes,

yes.

plaetton: equal in power. Am I right?

no.

See below:

Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and
perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every
precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz,
and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the
jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the
carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy
tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I
have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy
mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down
in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that
thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled
the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast
sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of
the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O
covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of
fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty,
thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy
brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay
thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude
of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic;
therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of
thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to
ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that
behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be
astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never
shalt thou be any more.



...................
The are not equal in power

Boomark: Jn 3:16

"for God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,...."

How did he become the only begotten son before his resurrection?

@truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

@ijawkid

One of the Chief princes is not referring to joint princes of God and those of Satan. They are not of the same kingdom. There are other princes who are not cheifs.

this is actually a straight forward statement.

Yahweh sent his only beggoton son.

When was the son sent?

Boomark: @truthislight

Is Michael an ordinary angel?

is this the answer to the question of how many persons receives worshipful honor in Yahweh's organisation?

Meanwhile, how can an archangel be an ordinary angel?

How can the first born of all creation be an ordinary angel?

How can the leader of the whole of Yahweh's angels be an ordinary angel?

How can the captain of Yahweh organization be an ordinary angel?

How can Yahweh's only beggoton son be an ordinary angel?

How can the one through whom all things were created be an ordinary angel?

You are on your own if you say he is.

Besides, there is nothing "ordinary" about being an angel.

There is nothing ordinary about being a messenger of Yahweh.

Not when people are proud of being the messengers of human presidents.

How much more being the messenger of Yahweh? The creator of the univers.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, it simply means that now we know God in part but in the future we will know Him fully. I don't see the big problem there.[/quote]it is presumptiouse to put "God" at that place altogether.

See:

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things,
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Corinthians 13:9-12)
..............

That is kingjames version.

There is nothing like we need to see God befor we will come to know what is God's knowledge.

The word God there is wrong. QED.

Reyginus: I sense ad hominem. Your arguement will have been better in another thread. What do you think?

i dont understand you my friend.

Is it true that we cannot have knowledge unless we can see God?


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
............
Since we have not see God to arrived at knowledge how then do we get to be saved?

Is my pointing this out a crime to you?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Actually it isn't the only translation that says we will know God clearly as He knows us. Your allegation is untrue

We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us! (MSG)

Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me. (GW)

At present, we are looking at a confused reflection in a mirror; then, we shall see face to face; now, I have only glimpses of knowledge; then, I shall recognize God as he has recognized me. (KNOX)

What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete—as complete as God's knowledge of me.(GNT)

Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely. (NLT)

For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. (NET)



I am also not arguing that God has not revealed himself to us because He has through the person of Jesus Christ and furthermore teaches us of Himself through the Holy Spirit. All I am pointing at is that the verse talks about the last day when perfection will come and we will know Him face to face and clearly as He knows us. Until then, we know only in part.

I believe that all translations are there to make scripture clearer and easier for us to read and understand.[/quote]my brother Annony,

this below was the translation in question.

please compare the traslation you quoted up there with the one here below and see if they say the same thing:

[quote author=Mr_Anony]"......But when perfection comes, the things that are not complete will end.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, and I made plans like a child. When I became a man, I stopped those childish ways.
It is the same with us.

"Now we see God as if we are looking at a reflection in a mirror.
But then, in the future, we will see him right before our eyes",

Now I know only a part, but at that time I will know fully, as God has known me." 1Corinthians 13:10-12[/quote][/quote]this was the translation in question.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]"Now we see God as if we are looking at a reflection in a mirror.
But then, in the future, we will see him right before our eyes",[/quote]this ^^^ is the part that got me wandering and i cant accept that getting the knowledge of God depend on that ^^^ as it was presented.

will not.

Reyginus: Truthislight, is this a conspiracy?

Conspiracy to what end?

Clarify please.
Thanks.

Boomark: So the decree "You are my son..." was made after his stay on earth?

what kind of child play debate is taking place here that people avoid answering a conclusive question only to reappear and start post what has already been resolved?

@boomark

how many person are authorised to receives worshipful honor among Yahweh's loyal organisation?
.............

How can you claim to stand for the truth when you are not honest?

Well, Yahweh wants us to be honest and defend the truth.

It is obvious that you are either not being honest here or you are being slow or it is a mind set thing.

Why not answer the question and see what you will get? That is if you are ready to learn or you have been infected with some antics of the trinitarians.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, I don't know what you are worked up about. I didn't put God there, I read from my bible telling me that when we meet God it will all be made clear. You asked for the translation and I provided it. Why now are you making it seem as if it was my invention? I did not write the bible, I only quoted it. If you have a problem, take it up with the translators and not me.[/quote]of all the translion in this world that is the only one that serves your aims/purpose.

The old manuscript did not put god there but you liked a translation that put God their.

Yes, the translation put god there and most others dont but you did loved the one that does.

Well, you and your translation are on your own.

What you are saying is not what i read from my own bible.

God has reveal himself to man through the bible.

God has reveal himself to man through his son Jesus christ.
Peace.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, remember that "incomprehensible" was not a word I used but one you chose. I pointed out that a more accurate description of knowing God is that we have partial knowledge of Him as human beings. I have also shown you from the bible that God will make everything clear to us in the end.

So I really don't see your contention here. You have defined God inaccurately and you are insisting that God must fit your definition even after I have shown you that your definition does not accurately depict God.[/quote]that statement of having partial knowledge was a reference to an individual apostle as they were given just a part of what is to be and that is why it took not just one apostle to write the NT but many and this many were given a part of the knowledge to write.

But when you combine all their knowledge together you then have a complete package of what God has sent.

With that apostle peter can make this statement below:

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you,
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:15,16)
..................

Yes, peter agrees that the knowledge that was "given" to apostle paul was difficult to understand.

And the one that was given to him peter was different from the one that was given to paul.

But we today in the bible have this knowledge that was given to the individual apostles in parts as the complete NT and the OT all in one package of God's dealing and aspects.

The bible says that the :
"things that were written afore times were written for our own understanding, that by reading them we might have hope"

yes, the "partial" is a reference to what was given to the individual apostles, but today we have the bible that contain all that was given to all the apostles in one place. = that which is complete.

And that is what people will use to :
"come to an accurate knowledge of truth as to be saved"
1timothy2:3,4
peac

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Of course it is in reference to knowledge. The question is knowledge of who?

On that perfect day, we shall see God and everything will be revealed.

I can give you a few more verses if you like

Consider: Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.

Compare with 1John3:2-3
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Also see Revelations 22:3-5
And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.[/quote]i am not saying that the bible did not say that people shall see God.

But that passage in corinthians says that knowledge will cease when that which is complete arrives.

That you feel the seeing face to face that is mention there means seeing God that is why you completed it to mean that when we see God that we will come to accurate knowledge.

I say it is not necessary for you to put God there.

It is wrong to hastily complete/fixe God there.

1. Now, if it is seeing God that we will come to know knowledge of God how then will people be save by the gospel that is being preached since the knowledge is not yet till we see God?

Note this:

From your putting God into that place you mean that this will not be possible:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
...............

Because there will be no knowledge until we see see God.

Meaning that the preaching today is useless since we have not see God yet and no knowledge yet.

2. Of what use was the gift of the holy spirit if the complete knowledge cannot come from it?

Was the holy spirit not meant to lead christians into all knowledge?

3. Note:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, completely furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
................

Has the purpose ^^^ of the scriptures not been defeated with you putting God into that place?

4. How can this statement work since we have not seen God yet as to come to accurate knowledge?:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. " (John 17:3).
..................
This statement ^^ of Jesus is also a lie by what you said.

5. How can this be:

"My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding,
"If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God." (Proverbs 2:1-5)
............
My friend, am afraid, i dont agree with you.
Peace

Boomark: Are you sure you brought it home to me? Can this happen in real life? Who is equal to the president?

You analogy can't happen in Nigeria. Goodluck is the number one and has no equal.

You should have said that i should emulate tunde who is from the presidency but is sweeping the church.

Tunde did not use his presidency nature to his advantage but was serving in the church.

boomark is now teaching Anony!
*Smh*

Anony leave trinity alone please!

Abeg, make every body help me beg Anony o!

"Lets be our brothers keeper"

We have tried for you o!

Leave trinity alone! Leave trinity alone!! Leave trinity!!!
Hmmm!