₦airaland Forum

Zikkyy: The man or girl is one of those brainwashed tithers. Am sure he/she does not know why he/she is a Christian.

lol.

"if are fortunate this an online forum, if not that guy will have sued you to pastor chris oyaks. And other tithing pastors.

Boomark: Christ will not borrow any voice. Unless you are thinking that we don't know that a loud command/shout can be done by voice.

1. With "a" loud command/shout: this is obviously done with his voice. Who do you think he will command? Those that will hear the shout from his voice. The dead will hear his voice and come out.

THE BELOW DENOTES THOSE/EVENTS THAT HIS DECENT WILL COME WITH.

2. With the voice of "the" arch angel: this shows that the arch angel will at that time stand and do his work of which at that time is to protect those that will be gathered from the earth. He will protect them from satan's. Satan would not want the elect to be gathered.

3. With "the" trumpet of God: this will go a long way to prove the things Christ will be coming "with"

Mt 24:31
King James Bible

And he shall send his
angels with a great sound
of a trumpet, and they
shall gather together his
elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven
to the other.

There are angels that bear the trumpet of God and they are what is denoted by "with the trumpet of God."

I hope it is clear now. If you want to prove something make it wholelistic. And not cherry picking of arch angels voice while dumping the loud command/shout and the trumpet of God.

STEP BY STEP

what really is your argument and what point are you making or refuting?

Please explain.

Boomark: Have you seen that you can't refute what i said. Your cut and join interpretation was refuted by my explanations step by step. That is how it should be...step by step. I will reproduce it again so that you dump what you believe 1Th 4:16 means.

what?

Na waoh!
I dont understand you o!

@all can any one help me to understand bookmark here?

Boomark: As spirits and ministers of flaming fire(how God made his angels, Ps 104:4)

all the flaming fires are Yahweh's messengers/angels

Yahweh also chose human to be his messengers.

Any body between spirit creatures and human can be a messenger of Yahweh.

It is really a very great thing to be a messenger of the creator of the univers

And that is why the bible says that of all that is born of woman none is greater than John the baptist.
^^^
he was very great.

@ my friend frosbel

was John the baptist greater than Jesus christ?

If no, why?

Freksy: 1. Jesus was called a mighty God, according to Isaiah in his prophecy at Isaiah 9:6

2. The fact that Jesus is a mighty God does not negate the truth that he is also the messiah, the mediator, the only begotten son of God, the messenger or angel of God etc.
Recall that Moses was called "God", that did not take away his position as the mediator of the old covenant, the messenger of God, the leader of the people etc.

3. None of your scriptural quotations says Jesus should be worshiped, rather, Psalm 45:7 adds more weight to Malachi 3:1. it refers to Jesus as a "fellow" angel.

"Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king’s enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows". Psalm 45:5-7 - KJV

If I say: your fellow student or your fellow worker, it implies you are a student or worker respectively.

lol
@freksy

good one.


therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows". Psalm 45:5-7 - KJV

who are his fellows? = other angels

any contrary views?

don123: my question: are all messengers angels?

All spirit creatures are messengers of Yahweh.

All spirit messengers of Yahweh are angels.

The word used in malachi3:1 in reference to John the baptist (meaning messenger/angel) is the same word use for the massaiah (messenger/angel)

^^^
no insult meant at all, just the truth.

As long the angels remain loyal to Yahweh as messenger of Yahweh it is a big credit to them and a honourable thing.

When they refuse to remain as Yahweh messengers their name changes to Demons.

Like it was with the ones that came and marry the daughters of men out of their own volition. Genesis 6.

With that in mind, our lord Jesus christ was the number one messenger of Yahweh always doing the things that was pleasing to the father and will not say/doing anything out of his own initiative like the Demons did.

That is why christ was and is exalted above every other name for having been a good and exemplary messenger of Yahweh.

You and me are to learn from him on How to please Yahweh and have everlasting life

pastormustwacc: This one don pass my power. The thread is getting longer, and filled with so much questions. This thread na can of worms o!

are you a trinitarian yes or no?

@chris Oyakhelomi-Joagbaje

debosky: The 'men' described here, as shown in other translations, are PRIESTS - i.e. those serving in the Levitical Priesthood, those who still conform to the law and NOT individuals in the church. To those men/Priests, there is no 'after the law' as they don't believe in Jesus as Jehovah's Salvation, just like many present-day Jews. They are effectively living under the dispensation of the law. And it is these people you refer to as justification? Heck you might as well refer to Pharisees as justification - oh wait, you've done that already in Matthew.

I am sure those priests also were receiving and administering burnt sacrifices (as practiced under the law) - where did the disciples 'condemn' that, since that is what you are emphasising? Please show me where burnt offerings were condemned by Apostles.

good question.

@chris Oyakhelomi-Joagbaje

christ apostles did not condemn animal sacrifice why are you not doing it again?

Abi, do you still do animal sacrifice behind close doors?

Please, tell us why you are not doing it again.

Joagbaje: Weakness as regards to what ?




Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The law reveal God principles. We learn from it .but it lack power to justify a man before God. In the old testament . god says by doing so and so ,you shall be holy nation. It became weak because no man could keep it. Righteousness can only be attained by faith . We became holy nation by faith in christ without condition.

That doesn't take away the good deeds the law contain. We do the, but we don't seek to be justified by them. That's why we wont commit murder . Not because the law demand it but because it's ,it's against Gods principle to do evil to your Neighbour

i hope this @chris Oyakhelome-Joagbaje is still doing animal sacrifice o!

If you do not then there is a curse for doing part of the law and leaving some.

Money sweet o!

But the flies that refuses to hear will enter grave with the corpse.

Goshen360: Then what EXACTLY was SET ASIDE and ANNULLED Or better still, what exactly is the "former commandment" that was set aside. We need answers please.



How many times are do we have to repeat it that praying in the NT is not based on OT; so are giving, worship etc. Are you so deluded you can't comprehend simple point made here

lol.

Goshen, the ears of @chris Oyakhelomi-Joagbaje has been blocked and there brain train for exploitation.

Stop bothering yourself with him.

Zikkyy: Thank you my brother. With peeps like Jagbaje

lol.
Maybe i should rather be calling him:

@chris Oyakhelomi - Jagbaje

Joagbaje: Neither did it mention end to tithing



These were old testament practices. If you say the the law been done away with, all theses practices should be done away with as well.

@Chris Oyakhelome (Joagbaje)

christians are not under the Jewish law but under the law of the christ.

Christians operate under the Golden rule also.

Stop deceiving the steeple under you.
Thanks

Joagbaje: Neither did it mention end to tithing



These were old testament practices. If you say the the law been done away with, all theses practices should be done away with as well.

Jo,

i know that the problem here is with chris Oyakhelome, the one that taught you and you are his mouth piece.

so, hence, i will be addressing you with him at the same time.
Thank you.

mumumugu: JESUS WAS BORN IN A MANGER NT hospital

he waz visitd by shepherd not celebrity

his father was capenter nt governor

his desciple were fishermen nt politician

he orded d disciple to walk witout slipers.he didnt provide jet 4 them

jesus fed hungry people. He didnt ask to be fed

he walkd on foot and rode a donkey. No jet , no chariot

he neva ask nor recivd money 4 miracle.

He sufferd

he forgav his enemy. No holyghost fire

most of the pastor today are doing this work because of the hope of making money/tithing.

Stop tithing and most of them will run and go look for job.

Most of them are doing this work because of unemployment and not out of love for God.

Boomark: Hmm...

If its a gal, 1like

If its a boy, -1like

why not check out her profile?

Dont go beyond that o!
Lol.

doubleDx: I'm just knowing this now.

yes o!

Its true.

Look at her confirmation comment in her post up there.

advocate666: I know Hussein Obama is in charge.

why not tell him the truth?

Must you be like your master in every thing?

Maryjanee: i have been following this thread, and i find it interesting. I am not a JW, but until today, i didnt know there was a scripture where Jesus is referred to as an angel..but Malachi quoted above makes it clear. Jesus is referred to as the "son of man" in d bible at least i have seen that before, dnt knw where. Is it ok to worship the "son of man"?

ask him oh!

Trinitarians want to die.

Know the truth and the truth will set you free.

true2god: The four i mentioned above are the basic defense response u guys giv anytime u r accused for changin ur belief system and u knw they r not in the bible. I need to ask u a question, had there been anytime that Jw were asked to worship the son, together with the father? Let start frm there.

JW give worship to the father and honor the son. QED.

If you dont like that then you have your problem.

You have your trinity and you cannot defend the issue at stake here and you are trying to derail the thread.

What kind of question is that?

Do you think they are trinitarians?

Pastor must wacc?

true2god: Nobody is shocked anywhere but only JW, dnt be myopic my guy. Nobody, cos nowhere in the Bible remotely or directly Jesus was called an angel. I heard this fallacy first in 2004 and i trashed it squrelly with the pedllers. Try ansa my questions i asked u earlier before spewing ur kingdom hall tailored 'shocked' cos that is one of the key words u r taught to use anytime u seem to bambooz ur ignorant prospect.

you trashed what in 2004?

Is this the way you trash it then?

You are an apology my friend.

An empty can that makes the loudest noise.

Stop being boastfull.

Stop being proud.

Stop lying.

You are guilty of all those count.

Can any body reading this thread remotely imagine you trashing any thing? No.

Am sick and tired of you.

.

true2god: Barrister 'the genius', the bible is not confused about the person of christ but Jw do. Can u pls compare the person of christ in Isaiah 9:6?

Ok lemme help u in ur personally induced confusion as taught u by watchtower organization:
1) Jesus was 'prophetically' called mighty God, which means he might not truly be a mighty God in real sense (isaiah 9:6)
2)Jesus was also called an messanger, the bible cant and did not give a conflictin account on a person of christ( malachi 3:1). Remember the accounts or activities of angel gabriel heralding christ coming
3) Heb 1: 8, ALL angels ar ask to worship the son compare this to isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, psalm 45: 6-7).

My question to u in the above verse is dis, as a genius u r and i, olodo, accordin to u, was the son directly called God or not? Did the father ask ALL angels to worship the son or not? Are angels made to be worshipped? If God forbade the worship of angels either by man or angels, will God ask the angels to worship the Son? Is there anywhere in the bible an angel refused worship, cos an angel, no matter hw highly placed, is not meant to be worshipped?

My guy if u cant ansa this questions dat shows u r a clown, followin the watchtower's bi-monthly hand-outs without doing ur independent assessment? If u can ansa those question i can take u a bit serios.

the question you are asking shows the level of your reasoning and understanding.

The word "god" is a title that can be attain by any entity that receives worshipful honor just like Jesus christ.

Yes Jesus is called mighty God and refered to as God and so what? Does that mean he is the almighty God? No.

Is satan not also called god? 2cor 4:4

does that mean he cannot be the archangel? No.
you need upgrade.

Boomark: Christ will not borrow any voice. Unless you are thinking that we don't know that a loud command/shout can be done by voice.

With "a" loud command/shout: this is obviously done with his voice. Who do you think he will command? Those that will hear the shout from his voice. The dead will hear his voice and come out.


With the voice of "the" arch angel: this shows that the arch angel will at that time stand and do his work of which at that time is to protect those that will be gathered from the earth. He will protect them from satan's. Satan would not want the elect to be gathered.

i dont understand what you are actually saying.

Are you saying that the archangel will stand by the side while Jesus will make use of his voice?

Na wao!

Boomark: With the voice of "the" arch angel: this shows that the arch angel will at that time stand and do his work of which at that time is to protect those that will be gathered from the earth. He will protect them from satan's. Satan would not want the elect to be gathered.

confussion gallow.

Which bible/bible portion did you get that ^^^ from guy?
Hmmm!

frosbel: Jesus was never referred to as an angel, this is your personal interpretation.

what is this ^^^

are you really so dishonest?

Barrister, Freksy, Ijawkid, Trugunn. And others have shown were Jesus is refered to as the "angel of the covanant" and you still come out to say such?

frosbel: Jesus was never referred to as an angel, this is your personal interpretation.

how can you say this ^^^?

Then it is your word against the bible, i wander who we should trust, you or the words of the bible.
See them here again, i have copied and pest for you to see and come to the truth:
MALACHI 3:1

"Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts". - DARBY

"Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts". - BBE - Bible in Basic English (modern english)

"BEHOLD, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord the Messiah, Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts". - Amplified Bible.
-------------------------

if you frosbel have been deceiving the "frosbelite" better go and apologise to them and set them free by telling them the truth.
Lol.

Guy, own up, stand for the truth.
Peace.

BARRISTERS: @Boomark



just tell me that you are shocked to the brim when you saw jesus beign reffered to as an angel,

remember that when i fisrt qupted malachi 3;1 you denied seing angel there and could boast that no bible translation could use angel, but when you saw the last two translations, that rendered jesus as angel,havent i answerd your question? you switch to me to explain why a particular bible was written? anyway jesus was reffered to as an angel,mal 3:1. pls belly the shock, i can understand,ehn!

lol.

Bros, i de hail o!

Freksy: Wrong!!!!!!!!!!


MALACHI 3:1

"Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts". - DARBY

"Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts". - BBE - Bible in Basic English (modern english)

"BEHOLD, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord the Messiah, Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts". - Amplified Bible.

None of the above quotations is taken from the NWT. They are not quotations from the Watchtowe r.

The italic word, "messenger" refers to John the Baptizer, the forerunner of Jesus Christ.

The bolded word, "angel" refers to Jesus Christ, he is the angel of the covenant or testament.

If you accept the fact that the italic word refers to John the Baptizer, what scriptural reason would you give for not accepting the fact that the bolded refers to Jesus Christ?

No messenger or angel is greater - in terms of age, power and authority than Jesus Christ, hence the title: "an Archangel" - the chief or foremost among the angels, the chief among the message carriers and deliverers.

All angels, including Jesus, are sons of God. All humans are also sons of God, but Jesus alone is the only begotten son - was created directly by his father, then God used him to create others.

Prophetically, Isaiah called Jesus, "mighty God". This title does not take away Jesus' role as God's chief messenger. Moses was called "God", but that never took away or contravened his role as a messenger of God.

the truth cannot be hidden.

Tell them o.

All this bible portion that refers to jesus christ as the angel are not JW bible but translation that simply stated it the way it is.

Messenger = Angel and as such Jesus was also Yahweh's angel or messenger and that does not take away any thing from Jesus person neither is it an insult.

Was it an insult when he ways made lower than the angels? No.

Was it an insult when he was made a man? No.

In whichever case he was, angel, man, he still remained the first born of all creatures.

That is why during his preexistance he had control over Yahweh's powerful angels.

That is also why he was a man he still has control over the angels.(did he not even command the Demons? Yes he did)

jesus christ is who he is no matter the form he finds himself.

true2god: So i must swallow all the hand-outs from watchtower magazines before i will be honest with the scriptures. Ok lemme ask u a sincere question. Had there been any doctrine taught by watchtower before as true that they currently discard as false? Pls dnt mention xmas, birthday, new yr, easther celebrations to me. I mean bible-based doctrines.

True or false. That will guide me in answerin ur question or accusations here.

what kind of question is that?

You the accuser should tender your evidence and not ask another person to tender your evidence for you.

Besides, this thread is about angel michael and not about the JW.

Have you ran out of ideas? Well, it was your head ideas all along and never had it been a bible thing from you guys.

So you dont have further evidence to this thread that is why you are changing the topic?

Why not go open a topic and see what happens?

true2god: @plappville
I hope u been readin my responses so far. Which scriptures? Malachi 3:1? This verse had been trashed (read my post). I cant repeat myself.

plappville question was "as what did Jesus preexisted as"?

Did you answer her question with that your statement up there? No.

You avoided it since you are a dishonest person.

Why not go back and answer her by saying that Jesus preexisted as the almighty Yahweh?

Are you now ashamed of you trinity doctrine?
Lol.

You are shame of your trinity.

Did you not read Jesus say:
"if you are ashamed of me in this world i will be ashamed of you in my kingdom"?

You are finished.

You denied christ because of your false hood by avoiding to answer a simple question that "if Jesus preexisted, he preexisted as what"?

Now, go ahead and answer let us see.

ijawkid: Let him keÉp dribbling himself......

Translations that are not the NWT has called Jesus the angel of the covenant or the angel of the testamÉnt,but he's there still shouting NWT as if na NWT I quote from.........
___________________________

His afraid to acknowledge truths that will destroy the trinity dogma he holds so dear.....

beautifully stated, And that ^^^ is the truth.

plappville: You are not been honest with scriptures, especially malachi 3:1!!

my brothers and sisters, this debate is over and the points have been made to stand out.

This that they are shouting is like a snake whose tail has been cut and the head is restless and went on a rampage.

true2god: if the bible is ur final authority den wat do u make of Isaiah 9:6 where the son is called the mighty God. If the bible does not conflict on dis issue and made it clear that the son is greater dan the angels and all angles (includin michael) is expected to worship him den ur argument does not hold water. Read the account of the involvement of angel gabriel on the new covenant dat broght the news to the house of zecharaiah.

Dnt pull wool over my eyes in a watchtowerly way.

lol.

Did you read this thread from the start?

The word god is a title and can go to any entity that receives worship.

plappville: @tru2god.

With all the scriptures presented to you, you were not able to cooment on any, all you say here is....Jesus is not archangel. Ok now tell me, do you believe Jesus Pre-existed? if yes, as what? if no, then give us scriptures as prove. Thank you.

he believes that Jesus preexisted alright, but as "almighty God" = trinity.

Though he believes that Jesus preexisted he has refused to see Frosbel that said his "almighty" God did not preexisted but rather the both of them ganged up together to be shouting WATCHTOWER! And attack the JW irrespective of the ireconcilleble differences. They have both come to have a common enemy in the JW. Lol.

Well, now you see who the both of them represent.

true2god: So ur argument has turn to voice. This is a straw man's argument dat holds no water biblically. All in a desperate attemp at propagatin ur 'new light' frm watchtower org, not frm the bible.

My quextion now to u is this, does watchtower ,or u, believe dat christ will come with 'the voice' of the arch angel and the dead in christ shall rise first, den the believers alive will meet the Lord in the air accordin to dat verse u've just quoted. I mean both of us only should exchange messages base on dis verse u listed up the 'voice of an arch angel' as ur meaning the voice of the son.

watchtower watchtower watchtower!!!

What kind of debate is this?

Did the JW ever said that christ will not come back or that they said that flash and blood will not inherit the kingdom of heaven and as such those going to heaven must put on spirit body?

You said that people will be carried like that(physical body to heaven) JW say not so, but that the bible says that people will go to heaven but not the way your rapture puts it.

Please stay on point.

I will not address this issue again on this thread.

And please use the bible and stop calling watchtower/JW cus no one here has said "JW said"

your argument is attacking the wrong thing, please attack the topic.
Peace.