₦airaland Forum

tpia1: could have been a nice and informative thread without the unnecessary vulgarity, and also if it were in science section.

everything you people do doesnt have to be coloured by misery, does it?


why not try to do things occasionally in an objective manner, and without your pointless and fruitless attacks on christianity or whatever.

i had wanted to take the thread seriouse when i notice the "low ebb"

[quote author=Area_boy]I have a couple of pictures to give you a little perspective of how tiny and infinitesimal we are when it comes to the grand scale of things in the universe.

So before you go around saying we were "created in his image and likeness", put here to take care of the earth for "him" and then be judged on how we do it before returning back to heaven, I want you to consider the following pictures and ask yourself. WHY bother with so much else?

Mind you, none of these were mentioned in any of the "holy" books.
Take a few seconds.. relax and marvel at our galaxy. Everything you see is contained in our milky way galaxy alone. except of course the last picture


lets start from the smallest shall we? Although it is important to point out that pluto is no longer a planet. However, we can replace that with our moon since they are no much bigger than themselves, prolly 1/2
https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_planets.jpg
At this point, our little planet is still pulling its weight around the "big boys" or should i say the "rocky boys". Or is it?

https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_gas_giants.jpg

welcome to the world of gas. With no solid surface to stand on, these balls of gas find it easier getting so big because well, gas expands and contracts much better than earth (rock) does

As big as they seem, compare them to our sun (the major gas giant we have in our solar system) and they are immediately puny in size
https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_sun.jpg
can u see us there?


Our sun is really big!! 90million kilometers away from us and 1.3million kilometers in diameter, it is BIG!!! But how does she measure up with some other biggies around the block? Not very well i'm afraid
https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_local_stars.jpg
That monster Arcturus is the 4th brightest star you see at night. Right behind Sirius (since Sirius is a lot closer to us it appears brighter)


Compared to my favourite star Betelgeuse (you can actually see Betelgeuse with your naked eye at night) and his monster cousin Antares, Arcturus is a baby
https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_giant_stars.jpg
Tips on how to spot Betelgeuse: On any clear night sky, (if you're near the Equator like Nigeria, it wouldn't matter what time of the year) try to spot three stars in a straight line separated by a fingers length when u stretch your arms upwards (Usually called "the three kings" ). Try to align these three stars on one hand (preferably left) there will be four stars forming a rectangle around these three. The top left one with a reddish twinkle is Betelgeuse. and the bottom right one in the square is Rigel


As big as these stars get, they are really insignificant compared to our medium sized galaxy.

https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/spiral-galaxy.jpg


Finally, how many galaxies out there? seemingly just as many as the number of stars

https://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_galaxies.jpg

everything you see there is a galaxy .






I ask the question one more time.

How significant do you think we are?[/quote]

.

.

chukwudi44: His name could have been nweke or bayo or whatever prior to his incarnation but the fact remains Jesus was far superior to angels and he is certainly not angel micheal who is clearly stated to have been an angel

^^^
your opinion.

All angels are sons of God also.

But Jesus created them all.

chukwudi44: So because he is to lead the battle @ the time of the end make him the captain of angels? Micheal is clearly stated as not been the only arch angel.Where did you read that he is the captain of all angels?

where did you get this from that there are many arch angels?

There is only one arch angel.

Dont let the trinity to blinding you.

chukwudi44: If Jesus is truely angel micheal then it should be wrong to worship him.So your worship angle really holds no water.

Heb 1:4-13 makes it absolutely clear that Jesus is superior to angels.If you want to abide by the biblical definition of angels,you will do well to stick to that.

you dont seem to learn and learn well.

Arch angel means the learder of the angel.

A commander/learder of the "armed forces" does not need to be one of the registered soldiers in rank like our president are.

plappville: My brother in Christ, you are getting the whole thing wrong. I am not a 7th day adventist member nor a JW as some of you think.
I am only concern to believe what is written in the bible without confussing myself. I do not support anyone or whatever.
No one is perfect, we are all learning from each other, anyone here that believe he/she knows the bible too well is only decieving His/herself.
For your information, i have stated before in a thread that i worship with a Baptist church.
You may not have follow up that thread, but its less important. I personally have been asking myself several question on
this two fugures, although i haven't concluded yet, but scriptures made me believe they are similar, This means they can be ONE.

Now back to your comment in defining an angel. How will you now access this scriptures i will display below? It may be long but plz pardon me, and try to get to the end of it. Yes Angels serve God, this means they cannot accept others to serve/worship them abi? also You are aware that :
( Michael is discribed as the Captain of the Angels, Rev 12:7. He is one who stands in times of conflict for the children of Israel" Daniel 12:1). We know also that(Jesus was sent only to Israel: Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Now lets go and Look at the OT, in the book of Joshua, we can see that Joshua also saw Michael the Archangel:

Joshua 5:13-15,Joshua 6:2,Joshua 6:1

13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Joshua 6:1-2 1 Now Jericho was securely shut up because of the children of Israel; none went out, and none came in.
2 And the LORD said to Joshua: "See! I have given Jericho into your hand, its king, and the mighty men of valor.

What do you "nail down" wit this account? who did Joshua saw? "The captain of the Lord's host" , and we find that it is the Lord!
Joshua worshiped him, and He did not stop Joshua in his worship. In fact, th lord actually encouraged Joshua to worship Him! isn't this very significant ?

In Reve, when John tried to worship an angel, the angel tld him not to do that: "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Rev 19:10) We are only to worship God!

Are we just reading that Joshua saw the Lord? Joshua is told tht this ground is holy and to take off his shoes.
He is in the presence of the Lord. We als see, that this Divine Being accepted the worship and the reverence that Joshua gave him.
He actually invited Joshua to worship and reverence him! You and i know that Angels will nt accept worship at all.
When John tried to give honor to an angel, the angel stoped him.

We also see that Jesus accepted worship whe He was on earth! He accepted the worship of the people around Him (Matthew 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; Hebrews 1:6).

This Divine being is of no doubt is Jesus because Jesus himself said tht no one has ever seen God and that He is the one who has comunicated with man.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Joshua had talked to this Divine Being face to face.

And what is the down look on Michael all about? God's plans and ways of doing things is not same as ours. Do we have to say the bible isn't plain enough with this account? Who is the Captain of the Lord's host that Joshua worshiped here? Left for you to tell me.

Peace.

beautiful girl(lady) and your beauty is skin deep.

frosbel: sorry I have been a little busy recently, however you can find a useful article [url=http://www.christianmonotheism.com/media/text/1-11.%20AGENT%20OF%20NEW%20CREATION.pdf]HERE[/url]

I am not disagreeing for disagreement sake, all the evidence in scripture does not support this theory that Jesus is an angel. It's almost blasphemy !!

^^^
lies!

It is actually your stand that is not scriptural.

Show were the bible said that Jesus never preexisted?

Stop lying if you can not show were the bible said that Jesus never prexisted.

frosbel: ^^^^


The first ADAM was a man

Adam is the first created person on earth while Jesus is the first person created in heaven and that is why he Jesus correspond to give the ransome for the first created person on earth.

1st man os earth Adam = first person in heaven Jesus christ chrsit.

Apart from that ^^^ jesus have nothing being the perfect person to ransome Adam.

If not that any and any other person that yahweh choses will have payed the ransome.

Afteral, all loyal angel are also perfect, and it will not have to have been only Jesus that will be capable of doing that.

true2god: The bible made it clear, Jesus christ is NOT angel Michael. Its unfortunate that some pple are comin up erroneous and unbiblical research like dis.

Let take two scenerios from the scriptures. First is the event that was recorded in Daniel 10:13. An angel was bringin an answer to a prayer but was delayed for 21days by 'the prince of persia' before angel michael came to the rescue.

The second scenario was recoreded in Jude verse 9 whereby the arch-angel michael was disputing/struglin with the devil for the body of moses. And finally the arch-angel michael told the devil, 'the lord rebuke u' b4 he was able to go with the body of moses.

The two analysis stated above highlited 5 things:
1) that angel michael was stronger than the 'prince of persia'
2) that angel michael struggles/disputed with the devil and had to invite the presence of the lord to have his way
3) that the prince of persia is different from the devil himself but both are evil spiritual forces workin against the work and pple of God.
4) that angel Michael cant be Jesus christ cos he cant be strong with 'the prince of persia' and disputed/struggled with the devil
5) that angel michael had to invite the presence of the lord (by sayin the lord rebuke u) before he could hav his way against the devil.

The book of Hebrews 1:6 said: let all the angels of God (arch-michael inclusive) worship him. The bible is clear on dis matter, even arch-angel michael worshopped him(Jesus, the son).

I think this is clear enof for any1 who is not ready to twist the scriptures in order to make a point.

who is doing the twisting hear?

Can you show from the bible were arrangel michael worship Jesus?

You misunderstand Jude completely and the message of respect and not to speak abusively of authority.

We should quote the bible for our stand.

My point is that archangel is a title for the leader of the angel and the leader of the angel is an only beggoten son of yahweh.

All amgels are also sons of yahweh = job 38:7

but Jesus is unique being the the "only" entity that yahweh personall created by himself while Jesus did the creation of all other things including the angels = col. 1:16,17

frosbel: 3 things are clear in the bible :

1. Jesus did not pre-exist as a being , but as a purpose and plan in the mind of GOD and for the redemption of the human race.

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." - Genesis 3:15

2. Jesus was begotten of the Father at a fixed time in history as a fully fledged MAN

3. Angel Michael is exactly what the bible says he is , an archangel

No amount of scripture twisting and manipulation of the bible can come to any other conclusion.

This is what happens when you base your teaching on an organisation instead of the Holy Spirit.

you are off from this discussion as well since you have not use the bible to show that jesus did not preexist.

Your views on this issue are irrelevant to me.

Boomark: Barristers

what is the meaning of "Son of man"?

Shout is not the same blowing a trumpet.

Sound of voice is not the same as sound of trumpet.

so, it is the trumpet that will do the resurrection?
*sigh*

chukwudi44: Micheal is not the only arch angel.He is only the arch angel in charge of battle.other arch angels mentioned in the canonised scriptures include gabriel and raphael.as clearly stated by the books of tobit and revelation,there are seven arch angels in all.Others mentioned in some on the non-canonical books include uriel,zarapael e.t.c.

Daniel 10:13–14

13 But for twenty-one days the spirit prince* of the kingdom of Persia blocked my way. Then Michael, one of the archangels,* came to help me, and I left him there with the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia.*

14 Now I am here to explain what will happen to your people in the future, for this vision concerns a time yet to come.”

Verse 13 makes it clear he is not the only arch angel.so when ever the term arch angel is mentioned it dosen't just refer to micheal.

it is obviouse that your evidence are not the bible but outside eviddences that cotradict the bible on all other doctrine like immortality of the soul and the condition of the dead.

When did your rcc start following what the bible says?

You are a no contest and have no stand on this issue since you dont make use of the bible to arrive at the truth.

chukwudi44: Stop fooling yourself.we already know the seventh day adventist stand on this issue.Stop pretending you are neutral here.

If you want to hear what the bible says.I have already posted them in my last two posts on this thread.Better pay heed.

how can someone pay heed to lies and misunderstanding?

You want her to close her eyes to the overwhelming evidence and accept your misconceptions abi?

chukwudi44: Heb 1:14

What are the angels then? There are spirits who serve God and are sent by him to help those who are to receive salvation.

Shee una don see the biblical description of angels.To call Jesus an angel is amongst the biggest insult yet to him.Not even the 4th century arians brought him so low.

if you ahve been following the thread you will not be making an emotional rant.

The word arch angel means the leader of the angels, learn and stop shouting snd confusing yourself.

Your main interest in not Jesus, cus to you, Jesus is a piece of bread, but your fear is the trinity dogma, because you fear that if it is seen that Jesus is an anrc ahgel your lies of the trinity is destroyed to the person that have come to know this truth.

chukwudi44: Hebrews 1:4-8

New International Version (NIV)

4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The Son Superior to Angels

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”[a]?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”[b]?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”[d]

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

The above verses makes it explicitly clear Jesus is superior to angels.Heretics please repent before it is too late

did you read this thread from the begining?

If you have read it you will have notice what makes Jesus an only begotten son.

well, you should first come to understand that all the angel are call "sons" to the almighty God.

Job 38:7

"and all the sons of God shout in applause"
^^^
is not the question that angels are call sons of God but who is the only beggoten son.

Col. 1:16 shows that it is christ that created all things, but christ was the only person that God personally created and that makes him an only beggoten son of the father.

This made Jesus the first creature in heaven as "the first born of all creation"

^^^
this is one of the reason why Jesus was the right person to ransom the first man on earth Adam. Jesus = the last Adam.

So, Jesus is unique being the "only" entity that Yahweh personally created while Jesus created all other things, an only beggoten son.

Though the trinity will not allow you to see this truth, it nonetheless, the truth of what the bible says.

Boomark: New International Version
(©1984)
but first I will tell you
what is written in the
Book of Truth. (No one
supports me against them
except Michael, your
prince.

New Living Translation
(©2007)
Meanwhile, I will tell you
what is written in the
Book of Truth. (No one
helps me against these
spirit princes except
Michael, your spirit prince.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
But I will tell you what is
inscribed in the book of
truth: there is none who
contends by my side
against these except
Michael, your prince.

New American Standard
Bible (©1995)
"However, I will tell you
what is inscribed in the
writing of truth. Yet there
is no one who stands
firmly with me against
these forces except
Michael your prince.

King James Bible
(Cambridge Ed.)
But I will shew thee that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that holdeth
with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
(©1995)
However, I will tell you
what is inscribed in the
true writings. No one will
support me when I fight
these commanders except
your commander, Michael.

King James 2000 Bible
(©2003)
But I will show you that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that upholds
me in these things, but
Michael your prince.

American King James
Version
But I will show you that
which is noted in the
scripture of truth: and
there is none that holds
with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.

American Standard
Version
But I will tell thee that
which is inscribed in the
writing of truth: and there
is none that holdeth with
me against these, but
Michael your prince.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I will tell thee what is
set down in the scripture
of truth: and none is my
helper in all these things,
but Michael your prince.

my friend, from the scriptures above what did the angel called michael?


"but Michael your prince"
^^^
this is a reference to the prince of the people of daniel, and Daniel was a Jew.

Who is the prince of the people of Daniel(Israel)?

isaiah 9:6
"he shall be called "prince" of peace"

so, the prince of the people of Daniel(is michael = Jesus christ)

and it is he that stands for "his" people.

Joagbaje: @ moderators ,
I will kindly like logicboy to be cautioned from following me about with abuses and insults for no just cause . I believe I have right to post my contributions like everyone else wihout Harassment .pls kindly look into this menace.



https://www.nairaland.com/1104859/beware-pastors

but you ask for it by preaching what the bible does not support on an open forum and some people may fine that offensive.

Obi1kenobi: And I can see the great fruit your church has yielded by your insolence. Brainwashed, enslaved clown. So you needed Jesus to tell what kind of fruit rotten trees produce?

that is the product that came to tutor reginus.
*sigh*

musKeeto: If you think the Catholic church isn't far off better than the pentecostal churches, you must be living in lala land.
If present day pentecostal churches had brought Christianity to our shores, only the king's children would have had an 'english' education.
If present day pentecostal churches had brought Christianity to our shores, we'd still be colonized thanks to the 'touch not my annointed' mantra.. Present day pentecostalism is the worst insult to Christianity and Jesus' sacrifice..

i dont have any issues with your observations.

It just a " like mother like daughter" thing.

advocate666: There is no such thing as everlasting life. It is another of those lies told by your religion to keep you people in check.

Satan teaches us that we have one life only and we should enjoy it to the fullest.

in that case you are not a very good advocate for satan cus you have contradicted him:

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" (Genesis 3:4).

That is satan's stance.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]note that you teaching on Jesus christ is not biblical and such is not my personal resposibilty to tell you what to believe.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

Note:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).
^^^

he Jesus is befor all things. Can you explain that?

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]note that your teaching on Jesus christ is not biblical and such is not my personal resposibilty to tell you what to believe.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

Note:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).
^^^

he Jesus is befor all things. Can you explain that?

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]my bros. Lol.

Can you explain how it is similar to the trinity?

The bible says that michael/Jesus will come with his holy angels.

Note: "his" holy angels"

well, that his what the bible says, ours is not to bend it but say it the way it is.

I cannot reward myself with everlasting life so, if the bible says that Jesus or michael will come with "his" holy angels why and how can i change it and say that Jesus does not command/lead angelic host.

Yahweh we know delegate alot even asking an angel to bear his name.

Ours is to ensure that we say what the bible says and drop "our" personal sentiments.

frosbel: I will not be drawn into a prolonged debate.

I have this to my advantage, my interpretation of scripture is not based on any church or institution, therefore it is easy for me to make a clean break from the doctrines of MEN.

To suggest that Jesus is angel Michael is an insult to GOD and suggests that God could not use his SON who was a MAN to redeem the human race.

No angel , not even Michael was qualified to redeem the WORLD.

Only the Son of GOD , begotten of a WOMAN and imbued with the Power from GOD could have achieved this feat.

you will not accept that there are two equal Gods in heaven as the trinity says, but you are preaching two captain in heaven that leads the angels.

1. Jesus christ.
2. Arch angel michael.

This ^^^ have exactly the same responsibilities. (concussion)

Is that not confusion in God's arrangement that you are suggesting?

If it is your view that christ never existed, that is your personal view(Frosbel) and have nothing to do with the bible and as a matter of fact is a doctrine of man.

Christ is the first born of all creation.

Yahweh is a God of organization and not of disorder

1. There is no two captain leading the angels in heaven.

2. No two equal Gods in heaven.

3. No divide and rule in heaven.

The only divide and rule was satan and he is no more in heaven.

Am surprise you guys can support a theory that is satanic and creat contradiction and confusion and you dont know it.

Yahweh is a God of unity and not of disorder.
Peace

Boomark: Hebrews 1:7-8

7 Of the angels he says, "Who
makes his angels winds, and his
servants flames of fire." 8 But of
the Son he says, "Thy throne, O
God, is for ever and ever, the
righteous scepter is the scepter of
thy kingdom.

v7 refers to angels while v8 refers to the Son.

Also refer to v5 where it says "to which of the angels did he say: "You are my Son..?"" to this question someone can say "to angel Michael." Is it so?

What am seeing here is that since Jesus is greater than the angels, He can do everything Michael can do but Michael cannot do everything Jesus can do.

arch angel means leader of the angels. No?

Unless you are of the opinion that we have two angelic commander in heaven, do we?

Jesus christ is the personage that created all other things both in heaven and on earth.

Jesus christ is the only personage that Yahweh personally created by himself and that made him an only beggoten son of God.

As the only beggoten son and te one Yahweh used to creat all the angelic host, that makes Jesus far above all the angels he created.

Boomark: Also refer to v5 where it says "to which of the angels did he say: "You are my Son..?""

so, this ^^^ argument is self refuting since Jesus christ and his role is of an only beggoten son. Read this:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things exist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

By nature he is greater than all the angels.

Why is calling him "leader of the angel" a problem to you all?

You thing there is a "divide and rule" in heaven?

Does the theory of two captains in heaven makes sense to you?

frosbel: Jesus is not an angel .

Jesus is the Son of the living GOD.

Michael is the chief of God's angels, to suggest that Jesus is angel Micheal is pure speculation and wrongly so.

No angel would have EVER qualified to die for the sins of Mankind, only a man will suffice and that MAN is Jesus the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

In summary :

1) JESUS came as a MAN
2) He was not yet born at the time of the OT

^^^

this are your words, why not start by answering this questions below.

truthislight: maybe we have a divid and rule arrangement in heaven, where Jesus have his own angels and arch-angel michael have his own angels and satan also have his own angels while in heaven.

If Yahweh's angels are united serving Yahweh then we know that there is NO divide and rule and they will all have a common leader.

Unless the bible is contradictory and says that Jesus will do things that had already been assign to arch-angel michael then we dont really know who to look to to stand up for God's people at the end of days.

Again, We dont really know if it is arch-angel michael or the lord Jesus that will call for the resurrection of faithful servant of Yahweh, since that task has already been given to arch-angel michael long long time ago and we know that Yahweh cannot lie.

This and others beg for answers since Yahweh Always inform his servant of his intention.

There are too many duplication of responsibility and we are to believe that Yahweh is confuse because of someone personal sentiment? No, that is impossible.

It is those that dont yield to scriptural evidence that has to explain how come they know more than Yahweh, the owner of the bible that repeated the resposibilty of Archangel michael to Jesus after Jesus has been reveal as the masaiah.

Ndipe: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Michael-Archangel.html

you should have come forward to explain the begging question.

Being the leader of the angel is a crime to you if Jesus is such.

Why not come forward and answer some questions?

Dr young: Good for you but not everybody believes it. I pick the good ones only. Why not keep our opinions to ourselves!? Many churches are springing up everywhere because of their own varied interpretations of the bible. Stick to your version and leave this people be.( why would the people that compiled it sometimes be practising another thing, Pls don't say they didn't cos they did compiled the bible maybe there is something they are not telling us) my opinion though.

the RCC did not write the bible.

The NT are writings of the apostles of christ.

italo: The fact that the word "Catholic" was not in the Bible does not mean that The early Church was not Catholic. Otherwise, you would also say that the Bible is not scripture because the word "Bible" is not in the Bible. Do you see the uselessness of that kind of reasoning. It was the same Church that named itself "Catholic" that selected the Scripture they wanted and called it "Bible."



The apostles were the first leaders of the Church which was later called Catholic to distinguish it from heretical groups.



This is just a blind accusation without proof.



How do you know that Mark wrote "Mark" and Luke wrote "Luke" and they were inspired by the Holy Spirit? This is the second time I'm asking you this simple question.

those that have eyes can see that the bible writers mention their names in the books.

Mark and acts are history, hebrews is written by paul but did not mention it because of it content, putting an end mosaic law and the jews would have killed whoever did that.

But the person that he sent it to will sure know who sent it to him and would passed it along.

How can you say that RCC wrote the bible when the names of the writers are contained in majority of the books and all completed in the 1st century "ce"?

The apostles all died of in the 1ce.

The OT was written by prophet, judges, kings and livites. But the teaching of the NT is an exclusive of christ apostles,
this is the brainwash that you received that that RCC wrote the bible that will soon lead you to say that there is no God.

The "word" bible means little books and that is because the books of the bible are little "66" books in number,
but the issue here is not the name the bible is called but the writers of the NT bible.

Even if you change the name to "holy book" it does note change who the writers are.

The name that the followers of CHRIST are called is christians and it means followers of christ, what has a coined word "catholic" has to do with followers of christ?

If you are deceived, we are not deceived.

Obi1kenobi: Your bible quotes are irrelevant cos you obviously don't understand what I was saying. Firstly, you don't become atheist or agnostic by questioning the doctrine of your church but by questioning the very foundation of religious belief. Believe me, as an agnostic, I'm a lot more irritated by Pentecostal churches than by the Catholic church and other orthodox churches. I almost see many of you as being enslaved. I never told you the Catholic church wrote the New Testament, so I don't even understand your rant. Why must everything you practise be in the Bible? Do you even know how your Bible was compiled and its history? Did God's revelations to man stop in Bible times? If a man like Paul can write half the New Testament and claim to be divinely inspired, why not anyone who claims the same divine inspiration in post-Bible times like those Popes? We choose what we believe and I've found those who claim to have the only truth are delusional clowns who are often very selective in their claims.

i can see how well you have come along as a servant of God via the RCC.
infact, you are a shining example of what a cathlic servant if God is and should be, you are the kind that they can build with what they feed the sheep.

Do you think i had expected something better from you?

Jesus said: every good tree produces good fruit but every rotten tree produces rotten fruit.

What kind of fruit are you for God?

= agnostic (rotten fruit)

so, what kind of tree produced you ?