₦airaland Forum

true2god: My guy you are not presentin your opinion but wat JW made u to believe and accept as bible 'truth'. This same believe was not held by earlier JW members of Rutherford or Russel's era,

this same teaching by Jw can still change tomoorow on the person of Jesus. Do u knw dat JW once called Jesus the great appolyon? Ask your elders if this teachin was held before or not.

Is arch angel michael not an angel again? Or is he a special angel differnet from others? Yes he is still an angel. God said: 'let all the angels worship the son' (includin angel Michael), 'he is made better than the angels (includin arch angel michael)

At times i wonder if Hebrews chapters 1 is omited from NWT. Na waoooo!

frosbel: I am afraid to say that you have been misled by your organisations.

Jesus is nowhere called an angel, he is the Son of GOD and Messiah.

None of the apostles who knew Jesus personally ever suggested that he might have been an angel in past times.

Also , if Jesus was Michael , which we know he was not, who was performing the tasks of Michael to fight for and defend Israel.

debosky: Justice, mercy and faithfulness were weighty matter of the law no doubt, but they did not originate in the law and continue to apply both before and after the law. As a result they cannot be abolished/discarded with the law.

The tithing (of agricultural produce) being practiced by the Pharisees and endorsed by Jesus was done according to the law. Is your own tithing according to the law (i.e. comprised of agricultural produce)?

Saying Jesus never spoke against tithes isn't in debate here - Jesus didn't 'speak against' wave offerings, heave offerings and so on. Are we to observe them because they were not 'spoken against'? Jesus didn't 'speak against' going to the temple to celebrate Passover as a child and actually did so. Are we to also observe this act as well because it wasn't 'spoken against'?

debosky: Justice, mercy and faithfulness were weighty matter of the law no doubt, but they did not originate in the law and continue to apply both before and after the law. As a result they cannot be abolished/discarded with the law.

The tithing (of agricultural produce) being practiced by the Pharisees and endorsed by Jesus was done according to the law. Is your own tithing according to the law (i.e. comprised of agricultural produce)?

Saying Jesus never spoke against tithes isn't in debate here - Jesus didn't 'speak against' wave offerings, heave offerings and so on. Are we to observe them because they were not 'spoken against'? Jesus didn't 'speak against' going to the temple to celebrate Passover as a child and actually did so. Are we to also observe this act as well because it wasn't 'spoken against'?

debosky: Justice, mercy and faithfulness were weighty matter of the law no doubt, but they did not originate in the law and continue to apply both before and after the law. As a result they cannot be abolished/discarded with the law.

The tithing (of agricultural produce) being practiced by the Pharisees and endorsed by Jesus was done according to the law. Is your own tithing according to the law (i.e. comprised of agricultural produce)?

Saying Jesus never spoke against tithes isn't in debate here - Jesus didn't 'speak against' wave offerings, heave offerings and so on. Are we to observe them because they were not 'spoken against'? Jesus didn't 'speak against' going to the temple to celebrate Passover as a child and actually did so. Are we to also observe this act as well because it wasn't 'spoken against'?

frosbel: 2 things :


1. He had the name of GOD in him , but no names mentioned, though this could have been Michael. Also having the name of GOD in him desigantes the level of authority granted to him by GOD for the purpose or representation.

2. There are other archangels and chief princes, Michael was one of them, not the leader of them.

plappville: Yes "one of the chief princes shows there are other princes but they are never refarred to as Michael. His role is unique, He leads other Angels.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

I repeat, Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince. why is He the great prince?

frosbel: So simple and yet you miss the point .


"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16


1. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command
2. with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God
3. dead in Christ will rise first


Obviously Jesus commands the dead to rise up while the archangel blows the last trumpet.

"in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." - 1 Corinthians 15:52

" And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other" - Matthew 24:31

plappville: So who did Paul say He is?

1 Corinthians 10:1-4) Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, "and that Rock was Christ". Did Paul made mistake here?

plappville: Daniel 10:13) 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is also our prince!

Daniel 10:21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

If Michael is our prince, then maybe, the other prince or princes are nt our prince!

And Scripture says Michael is the great prince tht protects God's people.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

Michael is not just a prince, He is the great prince, the Prince of Peace, the Prince and Savior, and also the prince of the kings of the earth!

Ubenedictus: and becos d minister of defense is a commander does that make him d president?

frosbel: No, that is the standpoint of JW not the bible.

Hear the bible out :

Hebrews 1 :

V4 - "...having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

v5 - "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You.'? And again, 'I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me.'?

v6 - "And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'

v7 - "And of the angels He says, 'Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.'

v8 - "But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.


NO ANGEL Would have qualified to die for the sins of MAN.


Jesus Christ, our beloved Lord and Saviour came in flesh and blood, he was MAN like you and me , only that his Father is GOD and he is now glorified and exalted above all power and authority in heaven and earth.


"For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." - Hebrews 2:17

frosbel: "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." - Hebrews 2:17

Ubenedictus: one of the foremost princes, that implies that there are other foremost prince!
Beside chukwudi claims to be using d original language which is aramic, if u wish to be honest u shuld check out his claims and if u can find proof that the aramic didnt say so pls paste it. Name calling and church bashing isn't a way to debate, show us that chukwudi claim as regards d aramic are wrong. Chukwudi didnt say d latin translation he said d aramic, i really dont see d reason y u are talking abt d rcc here!

Ubenedictus: really? Has it come to dis? Church insults? I thought u could rise above that. Maybe i was mistaken!

Ubenedictus: u claim to be a xtian yet u cant talk like one, a disgrace, let ur word b season with salt, try and present whatever u tink d truth is with kindness.

Ubenedictus: hahaha, those who compiled the xtian bible say tobit is part of it, if it isnt in ur bible dat means ur bible is not complete, or maybe u are nt a xtian dat is y u dont have some of d books of d xtian bible

Ubenedictus: what does "one of the foremost princes mean"? If michael is "one of the foremost princes" that means there are others like him.
I see no decit!

frosbel: My sister you are going into error here, what do you mean by the underlined ?

Jesus was born the Son of GOD as a MAN , how difficult is this for you to grasp ?

frosbel: My sister you are going into error here, what do you mean by the underlined ?

Jesus was born the Son of GOD as a MAN , how difficult is this for you to grasp ?

frosbel: You are following the teachings of JW, I am not. I am free from the interpretations of churches or organisations.

Jesus is not an angel. For one to come to this most erroneous conclusion , the evidence must be based , not on facts but inferences and assumptions.

frosbel: Wrong !!

The phrase 'To which of his angels' implies ALL angels not some angels.

This simple verse destroys any attempt to falsely suggest that Jesus was an angel.

Ndipe: http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.htm

chukwudi44: You are yet to show me where micheal was described as commander of all angels.Rev 12:7 did not name micheal commander of all angels but rather said "micheal and his angels"what about the other chief princes or arch angels you think they don't also have their own angels ?you guys should stop speculating.Micheal was never named commanderof all angelic host.

true2god: From ur post God created only arch angel Michael, then angel Michael created angel Gabriel and other angels. Angel Michael now created evry other things.

From your 'reasoning of the scriptures' God did not create anything but only angel Michael. Then angel Michael created the heaven and the earth, angel Michael created the other angels, created animals, created human beings. Just tell me if im makin sense here or not because within u, u should knw that the elders that made this 'research' are pure liars and u dare not question dem or else u wil be disfellowship. Just accept evrythin hook, line and sinker. It doesnt matter if they change the doctrine tomorrow and say Jesus is no more angel Michael. The light just got brighter.

Look my dear read the first chapter of hebrews and dat should be clear enough and stop being incessantly confused. Is the angel mchael in the book of daniel differnt frm the one in Jude. Even arcg angel Michael was among the angels dat worship the son. Read hebrew again my guy and stop depending on some lies from watchtower magazines.

Mckybarf: note well 'judge all Things' not others. They may seem the same but they are not. Judging whether something or an action is right or wrong is not the same as passing judgement on other people.

joe4christ: Please this question has been in my mind for like forever now,
the question is, does satan and his demonic spirits capable of reading one's mind, i mean one's deepest thoughts?

Please share your knowledge on the topi, i needed some enlighten pls,
so let's hear your take on this...

Bret77: To answer the original question you have to look at it from a historical stand point and from a historical point of view the catholic church came before any other protestant denomination which were developed over 1500 years after the life of christ while the catholic church is much much older and i will give credit where its due the first five books are the Jewish Torah written by them

julietjuks: MEN AND BRETHREN LISTEN TO ME.DO NOT BE CAUGHT IN THIS DECEPTION. LISTEN TO UR MAN OF GOD.BELIEVE UR PROPHET AND U WILL PROSPER. DO AWAY WITH SUCH FOOLISH ARGUEMENT THAT OVERTHROW MENS FAITH AND POISON THEIR SPIRIT. PAY UR TITHE PERIOD.DO THE WORD AND LEAVE ARGUEMENT FOR OTHERS SOON THEY WILL ARGUE ABT UR PROSPERITY.hear and be wise.....

Joagbaje: There must be something special about the tithes. Its makes the devil have a bad day



Thats the right word. These are kingdom principles. They go beyond conandments

julietjuks: u seem to feel that u can prove something. the truth does not change whether u believe it or not. u seem not to be afraid to become the lecturer of the body of christ. remember esau! fear the anointing and speak not on things u know not of and keep ur skepticism of the truth to urself. thank u sir.