₦airaland Forum

Enigma: ^^^ I do not believe in treating Mary as mediatrix.

I agree that honour is due to her and the Bible gives her this. See Luke 1:28 etc; also, look up something called The Magnificat.

thanks for the clear answer.

obadiah777: MORE SCOFFERS

do you have cough?

See the way evangelical atheist are falling over a new potential convert. Lol

@ op
the majority of the posters so far are atheist that wish to live their life the way they like without giving a dam about a God that said he will judge them for following their heart desires.

As you continue to ask questions and read and search the bible you will come to learn alot more for yourself.

It is not all you read and hear people say that you should believe.

A blind man cannot lead a blind man safely.

Use your head and think, all that glitters is not Gold.
Peace

musKeeto: I weep for this generation of Nigerians...

lol.

Dude, answer the guy naa!

He ask a question and you said this ^^^?

How does that answer his enquiries and so?

Lol.

.

Enigma: the difficulty other Trinitarian believers have with Roman Catholics on this issue is the question of how far to take and appreciate the honour due to Mary; many do not believe in the idea of Mary as an intermediary, mediatrix etc.

you have stated the difficulty many people have with this mary issue, but i/we are interested in knowing what your own take is.

1. Do you also have that difficulties concerning her being a mediatrix ?

2. Are you home and dry with the act of using her as a mediatrix?

Please answer and choose clearly 1 or 2 of the options as to prevent ambiguity.

Hope you will not ignore this.

free123: how can u see d value when u have been blindfolded by JW sect? did u truncate d book of Hebrews from ur bible as u did to other verses that expose ur falsehood? can u for once think outside what u have been fed in JW? Is there any where in d bible that Jesus is called Angel Michael? Is there anywhere that angels are told to worship Jesus? Is Jesus called God in ur own bible? Did Michael create d universe? do u worship angels? what does d bible say about worshipping angels?

if God Almighty is our Saviour and Jesus also our Saviour - showing their oneness; what made u leave this issue to stick to calling Jesus angel Michael because He will be coming with an arch angels voice? Is Michael d only arch angel?

In fact joining issues with u is an effort in futility.

^^^
did you read this thread from the start?

Hebrews out of context issue again.

But satan is an angel but is called "the God of this world"(system of things) at 2cor. 4:4.

Even men are also refered to as a god in the bible.

The word god is a title that is given to entity that receives worshipful honour.

Even if you worship a stone it will automatically attain the title God.

This are issues that have been addressed already on this thread, go read it up and fault it if you want and come back then we can give a reply.

I cant be going in circles.

Zikkyy: You have refused to answer a simple question. Who received tithe after the law? if you truly believe tithe was received after the law, answer the question na



You don't expect peeps to complain when they are not tithing, do you? The Gentiles complained when they received told they must be circumcised and also required to observe the mosaic law. read Acts 15.

Read Apostle Paul in his letter - Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 (KJV)
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

If Paul became like the Gentiles, how is it possible he instructed them to tithe? BTW who collects such tithe?

^^^

this is one of the best argument you have ever made on this forum that i have ever red.

Good.

Dont mind the fraud stars.

true2god: do u still share the watch-tower belief dat our Lord Jesus christ, the mighty God, the prince of peace, the everlastin father (isaiah 9:6), the alpha and omega, the first and the last is also arch-angel Michael. I knw u will need an official confirmation from watch-tower before u can take ur decision on dis matter irrespectiv of wat the bible says.

what evidence have you presented on this thread other than the emotional shouting that you keep on making?

Lol.

Have you put forward any scriptural evidence to warrant me to change my views? No.

I follow what the bible says strictly and not man or tradition.

You have no evidence to the contrary other than the contradictions and lies you have been dishing out here.

You dont have even a grasp for basic bible knowledge and you keep occupying space.

I am getting fed up of replying you.

If you cant present bible passages hence, i will have to be more judicious with my time and ignore you.

Again, error there, Jesus christ is not the alpha and Omega.

true2god: the alpha and omega,

thats ^^^ not true.

I had said that the only reason that stand on the way of the evidence here is the trinity dogma.

Guy, leave the trinity alone and it will leave you.

You are having a lot of pains right now, not from Yahweh but from "trinity"

wishing you well.
Peace

free123: how can u see d value when u have been blindfolded by JW sect? did u truncate d book of Hebrews from ur bible as u did to other verses that expose ur falsehood? can u for once think outside what u have been fed in JW? Is there any where in d bible that Jesus is called Angel Michael? Is there anywhere that angels are told to worship Jesus? Is Jesus called God in ur own bible? Did Michael create d universe? do u worship angels? what does d bible say about worshipping angels?

if God Almighty is our Saviour and Jesus also our Saviour - showing their oneness; what made u leave this issue to stick to calling Jesus angel Michael because He will be coming with an arch angels voice? Is Michael d only arch angel?

In fact joining issues with u is an effort in futility.

^^^
did you read this thread from the start?

Hebrews out of context issue again.

But satan is an angel but is called "the God of this world"(system of things) at 2cor. 4:4.

Even men are also refered to as a god in the bible.

The word god is a title that is given to entity that receives worshipful honour.

Even if you worship a stone it will automatically attain the title "god"

This are issues that have been addressed already on this thread, go read it up and fault it if you want and come back then we can give a reply.

I cant be going in circles.

Reyginus: What happens then when darkness marries light? What happens in the union?

lol.

Can they?

Well, you make me laugh dude.

true2god: The bible did not specify whether they r fallen angels. Neither did the Bible say man will judge principalities. What the Bible says is that human will judge angels, so dnt start ur twist again, and obviosly arch angel michael is also an angel under this category. Read the verse and quoted earlier on dis again.

Lol, what do we have the bible for!

The bible says that the fallen angels are reserved for judgement.

Go and read your bible again.
Lol.

Must i go get the scriptures for you that is claiming to be a christian for you to know this truth?

That it is the falling angels that will be judge and not Yahweh's holy angels.
*sigh*

free123: how can u see d value when u have been blindfolded by JW sect? did u truncate d book of Hebrews from ur bible as u did to other verses that expose ur falsehood? can u for once think outside what u have been fed in JW? Is there any where in d bible that Jesus is called Angel Michael? Is there anywhere that angels are told to worship Jesus? Is Jesus called God in ur own bible? Did Michael create d universe? do u worship angels? what does d bible say about worshipping angels?

if God Almighty is our Saviour and Jesus also our Saviour - showing their oneness; what made u leave this issue to stick to calling Jesus angel Michael because He will be coming with an arch angels voice? Is Michael d only arch angel?

In fact joining issues with u is an effort in futility.

^^^
did you read this thread from the start?

Hebrews out of context issue again.

But satan is an angel but is called "the God of this world"(system of things) at 2cor. 4:4.

Even men are also refered to as a god in the bible.

The word god is a title that is given to entity that receives worshipful honour.

Even if you worship a stone it will automatically attain the title God.

This are issues that have been addressed already on this thread, go read it up and fault it if you want and come back then we can give a reply.

I cant be going in circles.

pastormustwacc: When things are not going right for christians, they start having doubts as to whether God is still with them or not. Other more pressing issues are:
1. How come a christian girl that has been serving the Lord all her life, and kept herself a virgin, can just get ra*ped like that? People that experience these kind of things are changed like permanently, many even lose their faith.
2. How can a christian sister born again marry, and she is unable to conceive? Upon all the prayers and fasting?
3. Why are some children born with stuffs like downs syndrome, and all those medical jargons?
4. Why did a child of say 3 years have to die because of a hole in the heart, and the parents cannot afford a trip to india to close the hole.
5. How can a toddler die just because he swallowed groundnut which caught in his throat?

Why this, and why that in the life of christians? How come Nigeria is in a state of you-know-what-i-mean with all the mass prayers by all them christians? And so many others too numerous to count.

the bible says that the ruler of this current system of things is satan and it is him and not yahweh that should be blamed
2cor. 4:4 and 1John 5:19.

^^^
why not ask satan, the current ruler about the failures under his watched?

He took the reign from Adam and i thought God abandon Adam, did God went back to be helping Adam outside the Garden?

Then why did he chased Adam away from the garden at the first place if he was helping him outside the Garden?

If the chasing out of Adam meant "abandoning man" we should know and ask satan why is it that he is in charge but all this failures are taking place.

I also red at Rev.21:4 that then God will come back to be with man and all evil will be no more including death.

So, till then, i know who is in charge now and i also know who is failing in his rulership.

Oh! I also know why christ had asked us to pray "let God's kingdom come" matthew 6:9,10.

If this was a kingdom by God why do we have to pray for another to come?

Oh! Again, when God's kingdom comes death shall be no more literally including all unfairness. Rev.21:4
peace

(when you know this truth you will never loose your faith no matter satan's failures)

(unfortunately the entity(church) that should have told people the truth is after prosperit

free123: of course worshipping other creatures is putting them before God. God is pretty much pleased when worship is directed at Christ - showing that He shares d same glory with d Father. But God is jealous when u worship angels including Angel Michael.

do you mean arch angel michael?

Let me help you below so you see how you should have stated it to show you got the sense of the thread.

free123: But God is jealous when u worship "archAngel Michael"

"
^^^

now, put it this ^^^ way so that your statement can fits into the sense in this thread otherwise you were and will be writing into the bushes because we are talking about arch angel michael here and not just angels.

free123: what other scriptures are u talking about? how u arrived at ur conclusion is still allien to most people here knowing that those other scriptures in no where called or even suggested that Jesus our creator is angel Micheal.
what about numerous scriptures that explicitly and exclusively called Jesus Christ God? are u gona throw them away just to reduce Jesus to a mere angel?

what will become of u if ur GB decides to change its stand on who Jesus is tomorrow?

free123: other scriptures in no where called or even suggested that Jesus our creator is angel Micheal.

by simply calling "angel michael" instead of "arch angel michael" goes a long way to show that you are just being emotional here.

The issue is with the context "arch angel"

and there is only one of such in the bible.
Peace

.

free123: how can u see d value when u have been blindfolded by JW sect? did u truncate d book of Hebrews from ur bible as u did to other verses that expose ur falsehood? can u for once think outside what u have been fed in JW? Is there any where in d bible that Jesus is called Angel Michael? Is there anywhere that angels are told to worship Jesus? Is Jesus called God in ur own bible? Did Michael create d universe? do u worship angels? what does d bible say about worshipping angels?

if God Almighty is our Saviour and Jesus also our Saviour - showing their oneness; what made u leave this issue to stick to calling Jesus angel Michael because He will be coming with an arch angels voice? Is Michael d only arch angel?

In fact joining issues with u is an effort in futility.

^^^
did you read this thread from the start?

Hebrews out of context issue again.

But satan is an angel but is called "the God of this world"(system of things) at 2cor. 4:4.

Even men are also refered to as a god in the bible.

The word god is a title that is given to entity that receives worshipful honour.

Even if you worship a stone it will automatically attain the title God.

This are issues that have been addressed already on this thread, go read it up and fault it if you want and come back then we can give a reply.

I cant be going in circles.

Ubenedictus: hahaha, are u angry?? Hahaha, u did d same thing so post ago and u were very happy to do it, d post has abt 3 likes now u are condeming someone 4 doing the same!
Hypocrisy,

if he had even quoted the Hebrews, that singular scripture that all of you take out of context for your theology, at least he would have made a contribution to the thread.

But like you can see, he did not, but started making irrelevant statement.

But then, how can you all take only one scripture out of context and build a theology with it and turn a blind eye to all the other thousands of other scriptures asking for recognition?

Then you still imagined you are doing the right thing.

Ubenedictus: and you are not following d bible that clearly says "hold on to d traditions..." u seem to be d person gambling with ur hope of eternal life by rejecting a part of scripture!

the true tradition does not contradict the bible my friend.

.

frosbel: Does Nairaland have a spambox ?

the post is an indicator, the poster should be sent to an asylum.

For the old man, well, those that take him seriously are bankrupt of bible knowledge.

Reyginus: Do you really want to re-examine the files?

truth is light.

Cannot be hidden.

Darkness is never open.
Peace

manmustwac: Well for your infomation am nota supermod & I do live above board not biased in my decision making. Ok

well, that is if you were the one that made the appointment of the "supper mods" that does not seem to look balance and that is under scrutiny here.

Reyginus: Thank you for acknowlegding in disguise.

why cant you speak out plainly in an open forum?

You now speak in tonques. Lol.

free123: doctrine is one tough thing to deal with. Being known to always change ones belief is one reason i cant join issues with JW. What exactly will become of these fellas when some kind of light gets brighter and the whole belief system is changed?
The lenghth some JW can go to defend manmade doctrine is quite amazing forgeting that their light may get brighter tomorrow and their belief today becomes a sin. What kind of light is this that can never be brightest? Certainly not the light from God.

what value have you added to this thread with this ^^^?

Is this thread about JW?

Is this post above what you can add as a rational comment?

Go resolved your issues with JW, this thread is exclusively a bible based debate.

Peace

.

semid4lyfe: YES, I agree. I'm not okay with the fact that Seun appointed me a super moderator myself




Jesus!

How did you come to the conclusion I'm a Muslim? From my username? Clearly, you don't know me at all

I hardly post on religious matters but I've dropped enough hints on this forum and a little investigative profile browsing will reveal my religious inclination.



I see you're still in the business of innovating great ideas. Nothing do you. . .ride on!

After all said and said, I'm surprised at your rather timid opposition to my appointment. I expected you'll have created a thread in the Nairaland/General section just to express your displeasure. Seems you and I are making progress towards real friendship

Have a blessed day. . . .

you tried.

Bearing in mind that you were at the receiving end.

However, "two muslim and one atheist supermods" does not look balance, not saying that the christian will do better.

However, the judge should "live above board"

Goshen360: 7: And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Here we see beyond all contradiction in continuation to v6, that the lesser is blessed by the better. This is tying up to the blessing being referred to v6 when the writer said,"and blessed him who had the promises". Who is the lesser and who is the better? When we link it to the previous verses 1 and 6 which states the same thing about blessing and the record in Genesis 14:14-24. We come to conclusion that the lesser is Abraham who had the promises while the better is Melchizedek who released/gave the blessings. We can also prove this by consulting other translations below:

8. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

The most twisted verse of Hebrews chapter 7 is verse 8 to justify tithing for Christians. Like I said above, the writer up till this point had established two groups in comparison from verse 4 and 5 where he said:

“NOW CONSIDER how great this man [was], to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. – v4”

“AND INDEED THOSE WHO ARE OF THE SONS OF LEVI, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham – V5”

These are the two groups verse 8 is referring to in context. Many false tithe and scripture twisting teachers read into this verse and grossly apply/abuse it saying, Jesus is the “he” of this verse – nothing is being said of Christ in Hebrew 7 until verse 13-14. Now, we come to TWO groups here and we see both of them receive tithes. The writer brings the two groups together and compare thus, “HERE MORTAL MEN (many or plural) receive tithes, BUT THERE HE (one or singular) [receives them], of WHOM IT IS WITNESSED THAT HE LIVES.

Who is the “he that received or receives” being referred to in this verse? Simply Melchizedek - whom it is testified or witnessed that "he" lives as stated in verse 3 because Melchizedek was considered that he lives continually or forever since v3 already told us he has neither beginning of days nor end of life - so he is considered to live continually as his death record was not written anywhere in scripture. However, let look at other translations to prove this truth:

Hebrews 7:8
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually].

I love this translation because it states clearly that it's two groups we are looking at now. "HERE", IN THE LEVITICAL PREISTHOOD.....while "THERE" IN THE CASE OF MELCHIZEDEK.......Melchizedek is considered as he lives forever or continually as the bible recorded in Heb 7:3,6 and he was the ONE being referred to here that received tithe from Abraham.

Hebrews 7:8
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Those priests get a tenth, but they are only men who live and then die. But Melchizedek, who got a tenth from Abraham, continues to live, as the Scriptures say.

Hebrews 7:8
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Priests receive a tenth of everything, but they die. Melchizedek received a tenth of everything, but we are told that he lives.

This makes the interpretation of the writer using the comparative word, “HERE” and “BUT THERE” here in Heb.7:8 saying, Here MORTAL MEN (plural and many, referring to sons of Levi) receive tithes, BUT THERE HE (singular and one, referring to Melchizedek even as seen from different translations) [receives them], of whom it is witnessed that he lives. It’s like saying in our modern day English, “On this hand…..on the other hand…”

So “The he that lives here” is Melchizedek simply because his death record wasn’t found in scripture and hence he is “considered” (not in reality) that he lives, this was typified of Melchizedek and fulfilled in Christ as the “Fulfilled” Melchizedek. I DON'T KNOW WHERE ON EARTH IMAGE123 AND OTHER TITHE TEACHERS GOT THEIR INTERPRETATION THAT JESUS IS THE "HE" BEING REFERRED TO IN THIS VERSE. THIS IS READING INTO GOD'S WORD YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION AND GROSS MISINTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD TO SUITE YOUR TITHE TEACHINGS. JESUS NEVER RECEIVED TITHE AND WILL NEVER RECEIVED TITHE, AT LEAST NOT IN THIS PRESENT WORLD.

well, this tith people are hanging on to straws.

Whether Jesus or melchizedec that is refered to and melchizedec forshadowed Jesus, whichever.

It means that in the new dispensation "men that are dying" no longer receives tith in the new convanant like it was in the old convanant that it was commanded by law.

Image123: Rather, people like you cannot swallow your pride and accept you made a mistake.

lol.

After i have scanned the whole thread to find where the mistake was?

Can you please show it to me?

I am teachable you know?

So, please show me the mistake.
Thanks in advance, if you dont, i will not let it pass the way i did with him, i will then say you spoke the truth or you are a liar.

Am waiting