₦airaland Forum

Lord Babs: off topic. The resident theists drove Logicboy to science realm, after they couldn't bear the brunt of the grand morals of atheists. Off topic.

which Logicboy? The one that know nothing what so ever about a science lab?

He cannot define basic science terminology and have wiki for a brain that cannot think properly for itself.

You are the more a disgrace for saying that this illogical brat is or knows anything about science talk less of knowing what morals are.

Am Westing my time discussing with tits like you both.

Lord Babs: One more shot of vodka and off I go...

why have you not gone since instead of feeding us with animal gnome, animal pooo, animal diseases.

You have nothing to offer humanity since you are not better than animal yourself.

Common run!!!

Lord Babs: hehehehehehe...'I'm not very intelligent to understand

this is the first truth and factual statement you have said on this thread.

Now i know why you have animal brain and behave like animal and having se.x with beast.

Animal in human skin.

Lord Babs: what university did u attend? And what was your cgpa? So u expect me to reply u in your own way of thinking? An ordinary erudite will not say I haven't defined Morality by that quote u put up there. U're just pathetic!

stick your university up your foul smelling arsssss.

Where you in the university with dog and learning at the same time?

Useless degree that you have in animal kingdom and sleeping with animal.

Your kind of degree brain is useless in a decent society with dog sickness.

If i see you in person i will pack off from where you stay a 1000 kilometer away.

But you will be too ashame to speak out that you do sleep with animal showing how hypocritical you are. Dirty beast.

Lord Babs: you're only jealous of my atheistic prowess...keep jeering...

empty container talk..

You dont know the essence of moral and cant understand the purpose for it.

How can you know what morality is talkless of having what you dont even understahow it works.

Rut.

Lord Babs: what is this man saying? Why are you this vapid? Or you just seeking mischief? You asked of the meaning of 'morality' in my own view, I gave them to you, you couldn't say 'thanks', and yet continue spiting my intelligence! Is it that you don't understand my grammar or you are one of those phony learners? Did you go to school at all? Nonsense!

you dont know what morality even is.

What is the essence and purpose for you morality going by the moral and brain you have in your head?

Lord Babs: morality is couched by the rightness of an action, anchored on the singular fulcrum of COMMON SENSE. Atheists exhibit more of this (un)common sense. Theists frown against this (un)common sense as a yardstick to knowing the acceptable patterns of behaviour in a given situation. They rather ignorantly and sheepishly clutch on faith, based on the dictates of a somewhat irrational deity, and the morass of confusion of a mentally deranged pedagogue called the deity's heir.

hahaha.

How can you talk about a common sense that you dont have as can be seen by your fucki.ng your dog.

How is it that animal Bleep.ing beast sleeping with beast are mixing with human while they are carrying all sort of deadly sickness ?

This is a curse to humanity.

Lord Babs: lol! Atheists are largely renowned for their easy-going life. Theists are the WAR-MONGERS...Always wanting to war...'And there was a WAR in heaven...'(Rev 12:7)

how can they be easy going if they transfer disease from animal and pooo to the human population?

With the ability to decide what is bad and behave like animal as you said you do with your dog, how can that be call "easy going" when the disease plaquing human by your animal kind is killing human?
Rut

Lord Babs: keep quiet there! Your god is the architect of immorality. Atheists are better off your blood-sûcking god!

look at this animal arsssss fucki.ng atheist, a disease spreading medium like you.

Puting your di.ck in human and animal pooo.

Logicboy03: Why are you suggesting nonsense?


There are even christians who support gay rights even thought they are not gay. Use your brain. Or is Obama gay?

what is the "nonsense" here?

You are saying that homosexuality is nonsense, but you are supporting nonsense.

Why defend it if it is nonsense?

You should infact be proud of it and even agree that you are one since it is normal.

@lord babs
he agrees that sleeping with animal is normal and he does it, what is the difference between you and him?

Lord Babs: shataap! If I buy a dog with my money, and feel sèxually attracted to her, and consequently enter her, how does that restore your lost brain? Can't u just be logical for a second in your life?!

excuse me, is this what being an atheist involves Or, you are a worst case disgrace for the lowest case of no morals?

Cant common sense tell you that the human gnome is different from that of beast? Or is it that it means that being an atheist guarantees that one most lose all fabric of common sense or it is a type thing among atheist?

When your wife does the normal thing for you as an atheist and sleeps with that lovely dog of yours and she gives you a half dog half man baby dont hide your brainlessness by being ashame, but call us all to come drink to your animalistic instincts.

That is what lost of common sense can do to a man, it turns you to an animal that dont know there is a God.

Why am i discussing with you by the way?

Lord Babs: sharaap there! Are u telling me John's morals is the same as Peter's morals and Matthew's morals is the same measure with Judas' morals...afterall they are all christ-dôgs! Did Gay Jesus give equal regard to all his dôgs? Or u want me to start citing examples to open your cavernous and vacuous brain?

see who is talking!

You that dont have the brain to know that your an.us is meant for pooo!

You will soon show more of your ignorance.

Logicboy03: Ijawkid.....you havent given me a logical reason why homosexualism is immoral....I gave you my list of pros and cons but all you could do was to falsely accuse me and my future children of being gay.

What is your arsssss ment for?

Answer = pooo!

Is pooooo hygenic? No.

Pooo is a west that can make you sick when recycled. That you dont know this show why you are in no position to set standards that has eternal value.

When you put your pen.is into an arsssss instead of a virgin it picks up things that are meant to be wested by the human system, then you circle it and some of you are bi-sexual meaning that you later introduce it into the virgin and onward for circulation by you and your immoral compatriot to the general population.

Dont let your limitation blind you to reality.
*sigh*

Lord Babs: now, you'll make me go angry...we asked why is homosexûal bad, and you kept repeating that it is bad! Can you just tell me one singular, rational fault/bad in that wonderful act of nature.

how old are you?

Are you so empty?

What is your arsssss ment for?

Answer = pooo!

Is pooooo hygenic? No.

Pooo is a west that can make you sick when recycled. That you dont know this shows why you are in no position to set standards that has eternal value.

When you put your pen.is into an arsssss instead of a virgina it picks up things that are meant to be wested by the human system, then you recircle it and some of you are bi-sexual meaning that you later introduce it into the virgina and onward for circulation by you and your immoral compatriot to the general population you create problems that you dont have the capacity to imagined.

Dont let your limitation blind you to reality.
*sigh*

mollie12: plaetton, your level of confusion has passed me oh, I have to leave you to God, seriously!

Academic dons formed part of the people that wrote the Bible. Luke was a historian, Paul was a former Pharisee, one of the OT writers was a scribe - THESE WERE THE INTELLECTUAL PROFESSIONS OF THEIR DAY! I don't know where you got the idea that God hates academics.

WHAT DID YOU SAY CHRIST IS?!? My brother, I beg you, please run FAR AWAY from that deceptive doctrine of the New Age Christ. The Christ you make reference to is an imposter. The REAL Christ is the son of God revealed in the Holy Bible.

The end of intellectualism without God is a deep dark terrible tunnel, though the path trail may look very tempting, whispering its empty promises of superiority and possession of the deepest level of wisdom. Please run away from deception. 'There is no knowledge, or wisdom, or counsel, against the Lord'. Anything that is masquerading as such is simply foolishness. That's all I can say.

so rational you are.

Keep it up,

Kay 17: The true god and his true son with that desire and that want. Why isn't he questionable? Why is he a mystery? Why is he beyond reason?

look at this one that cannot add a second to his life span claiming and aski circular question?

Kay 17: Also one can choose to bash a religion or not

why not open your own thread and do bashing instead of suggesting this on some ones else thread that he had expressly said "no bashing" ?

*sigh*

plaetton: Yes.
Which parts are you in disagreement with ?

i am not here to find fault with what made you become an atheist.

Cus i know that there are too many false hood flying around that can make some one to become an atheist.

My point is that if you let this false hood to push you to the extreme you may not have done justice to yourself for going extreme based on a wrong premise you had used as a reference point.

If this false hood was not going to be around then their will had been no need for the admonition for you to be persistent
.
"My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God." (Proverbs 2:1-5).

We owe ourself the best short at what ever.

Reyginus: lol. It's been treated.
Let's sow on a new ground.
Tell us how our brain, which as you wrote, is what makes us different from animals, be the 'same' with that of the animals?
How can a disunifying factor be the binding factor?

the same spirit, life force, breath keep we and them alive.

But our mind/brain capacity is far superior to that of other creatures.

With ability to display high qualities like:

1. Justice
2. Love
3. Free will
4. Forsight
Etc, Etc, etc.

ijawkid: Musicians work to make money,pastors are to do Gods work for free.......


Please kindly read 1 timothy 6:5-7

5 and constant friction between
people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed
of the truth and who think that godliness is a
means to"" financial gain"".
6 But godliness with contentment is great
gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world,
and we can take nothing out of it.

The difference between that should exist between tuface and a pastor is that 2face makes good music for financial gain,while a true pastor who wants to follow Jesus should preach the gospel for free and not expecting financial gains.........

The apo§tles ¶erformed all kÍnds of miracles,still they had nothing nor amassed material things.....

Why is .the case of toÐays MOG's different??

Its simple:::::because they are peddlers of Gods word...

guy, this your post up there has made/ gotten 25likes, that is the highest i have ever seen on NL

keep the bible truth coming and set people free.

teeo: So its a gang thing, Good vs Evil and Good always win. Tithe is great better start paying urs, ooo i forgot you actually pay it to hospitals and other cankerworm and caterpillars eating up ur money unknowingly.

are you begging him money to feed?

Then go straight to the point and stop lying with the bible cus tith is not for Gentile/christians.

You will hate me cus am against your fraudulent means of making a living.

You can make a decent living you know?

teeo: who sabi u?

but i know you!

It is You that cannot earn a living for yourself but resorted to extorting others parasitically and fraudulent to be able to feed in that church.

Now, you have to learn a craft/profession so that you can be employable.

What you do now to have food is a fraud.

Those that love God work with there hands and still serve God.

teeo: Mister, whether i my brained has been washed with Hypo is it ur business. I know what d scriptures say about Tithing and giving. I dont believe all doctrines cos i have a free will to accept what i feel is right.

^^^
this is what lack of creativity does to individual.

If you have developed you brain to be able to create a decent living for your self you will not resort to extorting from people in the name of God.

Though i am religiouse, i make/design circuits and do work and cannot be a liability/con others talk less of extorting from them, rather, i give to others.

And that is what the bible says and apostle paul worked(tent making)

You lot today are a disgrace to christianity and a reproach to the way.

Tith is not for christians and you are not aware, what do you have to do with being a pastor?

Why not become a con artist?

Medics07: Atheists.. This is for you, you can take this as your devotion, but my intention is not to condemn u people, but to cause you see the light, you destiny, if you dont repent..

''For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness of men, who suppree the truth in unrighteousness. Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without EXCUSE. Because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor where thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened, professing to be wise, they became fools,..''Rom 1:18-22''

The Word of the Living God had said it all. But why would someone decide to bite the hand the feds such a one?, why would you turn around to insult and trample the grace of God underfoot?, no wonder the bible says 'a Fool says in his heart there' s no God'. A loving Father sent His son to come and die inorder to reconcile you to Him, you didn't deserved it, but He did it because He loves you, this is the greatest truth in the universe, better believe it before you shall say 'had I known when it must had been too late.' I weap for you, pls give Christ a chance.

^^^
one reasons i dont pick argument with certain people on certain issues.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Still missing the point are we?[/quote]it is not missing any point.

It is about rejection/destruction of a religiouse system.

This used of fire to symbolised what God has rejected permanently is very consistent in the bible.

1. Rejection of the pharisees = fire
2. The harlot of revelation = fire
3. the false prophet = fire.

Now to show that the fire is symbolically representing permanent destruction see how the "kings" of the earth is used in this two passages:

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
That ye may eat the flesh of "kings," and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." (Revelation 19:17,18).

^^^ here the kings of the earth is killed with the sword by christ and the birds of heaven are to feed on them, but since this destruction is permanent/eternal/everlasting, Vers 19&20 below still mention the kings again in relation with fire to drive home the point that the destruction is permanent. :

"And I saw the beast, and the "kings" of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." (Revelation 19:19-20).

^^^ this is showing that those entities mention there are permanently remove befor the next phase of God's plan, the 1000yrs reign of christ.

The sense that the fire is used here for removal/rejection of the false prophet and "kings" is the same way that the pharisees and their form of worship was permanently rejected in Jesus day as shown by the fire in the pareble of the rich man and lazarus.

All thing that God uses fire to reference faces ETERNAL rejection and removal.

That pherisaic form of worship was permanently rejected by Jesus with that pareble.

plaetton: My journey to atheism.

I was never a dedicated christian(whatever that means).

Like everyone else, I was forced-fed on christianity before I was able to think. When I was able to think, I tried very much to make sense of it, but somehow,it never made any sense. So I became obsessed with trying to understand it. They more I looked, The more I prayed to the holy spirit to come into me and make me understand, the less sense it all made.

God was a contradiction,Jesus was a contradiction, the Pope was a contradiction, prayer was a contradiction,blessing was a contradiction,sin was contradiction,forgiveness was a contradiction, judgement, heaven and hell were all contradictions.

At a time when being born again was in vogue, I was the odd person out. I tried so much to see the light, I read the bible day and night, I prayed for the holy spirit to infuse my mind with its mystery and new way of understanding,but all to no avail.
The more I tried , the more silly the whole thing seemed.

In my tender age, the very important tangents occurred when,in my search, I discovered ,

A. That Jesus was neither from my Village, the neighboring village, nor even my townsman.lol
B. That Israel was not even In Africa, but in a very far place that most people cannot even find on a map.
C. That Jesus lived 2000yrs ago(that was a real shocker)
D.Finally, when in class two secondary school, I read Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart and finally realized how Christianity came to our shores as perfect tool for the pacification,division and control of African people. That made a lot of sense to me.

It also struck me as not being a mere coincidence that modern Europeans themselves were not teaching religion to their children because they themselves had long jettisoned religion.

By mid secondary school, I had confirmed that organised religion was the perfect fraud.
However, I remained puzzled about the nature of god, and was still intrigued by ,and even revered the character of Jesus, based solely on the teachings attributed to him. By this time, I had become an Agnostic.
So my hunger and thirst for understanding religion only increased. So over the years ,I went on a reading frenzy to discover all I could about the various religions and their histories, especially the Judeo-Christian religions.

Another turning point in my road to atheism occurred some years ago when , one after another as if by design , I cam across in a bookstore, 3 books that really laid rest to my mind, the mystery of god.

The first one was the Pulitzer-Award winning book by former Jesuit priest Jack Miles, aptly titled, "God, A Biography". This is recommended reading for everyone.
The other book,again a best seller,by British Journalist Karen Armstrong titled " The History of God" even had a greater influence on my thinking.
http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

The third book, The one that threw the knock-out punch was titled "God: A Brief History" by John Bowker, former dean of Trinity College in Cambridge.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Brief-History-John-Bowker/dp/0789480506

After reading this last one, I had a sort of an epiphany, a great realization.
Yes.
OMG.
That was it .
God is a mystery because god is an evolving idea, or a set of evolving notions and ideals.

That is why god had different, even contradicting characteristics.
That is why god was different from individual to individual, from culture to culture, from era to era: Because god was in the mind. Each mind or cultural mindset, creates its own god.
That is why wicked people or wicked prophets create a wicked god, kind and loving people or prophets create a kind and loving god.
That is why greedy people and prophets create a greedy money-grabbing god.

Wow!
So the quality of the god created depends on the quality of the mind that creates it.
Bingo!!
SO I had finally found god, right in the sacred ,but fragmented precincts of the human mind.

So religion was just a set of contrived notions and ideals patched together, often by the stronger, in order to control the weaker.




As for understanding the origin and dynamics of the universe, I have turned to my scientific education in physics as my guide.

all this from your mind also i supposed?

Williamfors: 1. Where was Jesus before God sent him to earth?

Jesus lived as a spirit person in heaven before he was born in Bethlehem. He was God’s first creation and the only one created directly by God. Therefore, he is fittingly referred to as God’s only-begotten Son. In heaven, he often spoke as God’s representative. That is why he is called the Word. He also acted as God’s helper and took part in the creation of all other things. (John 1:2, 3, 14) Jesus lived with God in heaven for aeons before humankind was created. —Read Micah 5:2; John 17:5.
2. How did God send his Son to earth?


Jehovah transferred the life of Jesus from heaven to the womb of Mary by means of holy spirit. So Jesus was born without the aid of a human father. Angels announced his birth to some local shepherds, who were living outdoors at night as they kept watch over their flocks. (Luke 2:8-12) Thus, Jesus was born, not in the depths of winter, but likely in early October, when the weather was still warm. Some time later, Mary and her husband, Joseph, took Jesus to their home in Nazareth and raised him there. Joseph cared for Jesus as his adopted son. —Read Matthew 1:18-23.

When Jesus was about 30 years old, he was baptized, and God publicly announced that Jesus was his Son. Then Jesus began the work that God had sent him to do. —Read Matthew 3:16, 17.
3. Why did God send Jesus to earth?


God sent Jesus to teach people the truth. Jesus taught about God’s Kingdom, a government in heaven that will bring peace to all the earth. He provided the hope of everlasting life. (John 4:14; 18:36, 37) Jesus also taught people many things about finding real happiness. (Matthew 5:3; 6:19-21) He taught by example. For instance, he showed how to do God’s will even in difficult circumstances. When he was mistreated, he did not retaliate. —Read 1 Peter 2:21-24.

Jesus taught his followers self-sacrificing love. He had enjoyed many privileges living in heaven with his Father, yet he humbly obeyed his Father and came to earth to live among mankind. No one could give us a finer example of love than Jesus. —Read John 15:12, 13; Philippians 2:5-8.
4. What did Jesus accomplish by dying?


God also sent Jesus to die for our sins. (John 3:16) We are all sinners, meaning that we are imperfect and sinful. That is why we get sick and die. In contrast, the first man, Adam, was perfect. He had no sin and would never have died or become sick. But he lost his perfection when he disobeyed God. From Adam, we inherited sin and its wages, death. —Read Romans 5:12; 6:23.

Jesus, who was a perfect man, did not die for his own sins. He died for our sins. Jesus’ death makes it possible for us to enjoy everlasting life and be blessed by God. —Read 1 Peter 3:18.

Truth from the bible.

But unfortunately, not all accept the bible to be the word of God.

Image123: the girl was scared, abi na the woman was scared. she's 36 you said! he can forgive her, i don't think its her fault or that she's promiscuous. he may also leave her unfortunately.

guy, what have you succeeded in saying?

Please, break this two statement for us to understand:

Image123: the girl was scared, abi na the woman was scared. she's 36 you said! he can forgive her, i don't think its her fault or that she's promiscuous.

and this one cus you have confused us on your stand.

Image123: he may also leave her unfortunately.

who is really confused here?

ogoamaka99: .
Members will agree with me that the level of attack Bishop Oyedepo and Pastor Chris by pastor kun shows that something is behind it.

but i dont agree. Am i not a member

ogoamaka99: .
Members will agree with me that the level of attack Bishop Oyedepo and Pastor Chris by pastor kun shows that something is behind it.

but i dont agree. Am i not a member

ijawkid: Let's be brief...

The woman mentioned in revelation 12:1 who is in heaven definitly isn't a literal woman...rather she is a sign or symbol..revelation 1:1 tells us that...

What she symbolizes is the main wahala here...

Let's start connecting scriptures To find out and not rashly conclude on pagan stands....

In the inspired prophecies ,women at times represent organizations or nations ""married"" to outstanding personalities..

In the hebrew scriptures isreal was spoken of as a wife of Yahweh.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Come back, you rebellious people," declares
the LORD. "I'm your husband. I will take you,
one from every city and two from every
family, and bring you to Zion.
.(Jeremiah 3:14)...
------
In the greek scriptures,the congregation of the annointed christians is spoken of as Christs bride..
New International Version (©1984)
One of the seven angels who had the seven
bowls full of the seven last plagues came and
said to me, "Come, I will show you the ""bride"",
the ""wife"" of the Lamb."
(Revelation 21:9)
---------
We also know about that symbolic woman ""BABYLON the great"" mentioned in the book of revelation...(Revelation 17:3-5)
Babylon the great isn't a literal woman but she represents a group of persons,nations or organizations...
------
The woman john sees in revelation 12:1 is also married to someone,and she is about to give birth..and when she gave birth her child was caught away to God as verse 5 tells us...definitly that symbolic woman must be Gods wife,just as the physical nation of isreal(earthly Jerusalem) was in the past...

This woman gives birth to a son and also has other seeds as revelation 12:17 tells us..

Infact paul explains who this woman is..to cut it short let's read

Galatians 4:26

English Standard Version (©2001)
But the ""Jerusalem above"" is free, and she is our mother.....while Yahweh is there Father.....

Jerusalem above which is definitly not a literal woman is what gave birth to Gods kingdom with Jesus as its king designate and his co-rulers(the remaining of the womans seed).....


----

For you guys to connect revelation 12:1 to mary is actually perplexing...

You might as well tell us when mary ever ran to a literal wilderness to spend 1260 literal days after giving birth to a Son......

If you read through the whole of that chapter you would see that that woman can never be a literal woman talk less of she being Mary......




And for you guys to term that woman as the ""queen of heaven"" ,a pagan term makes me SMH!!!!!......

If you didn't know, mary is part of and under that "Jerusalem above" and not she herself being the ""Jerusalem above""...

For you to think that that woman is Mary ,then we'll have to agree that mary gave birth to Jesus twice.....both on earth here and in heaven.......

Only your type would read this chapter,link it to the pagan ""queen of the heavens"" as you'll usually do,.....

Mary is no such queen...mary isn't a pagan goddess....

Thank you.......

this made a lot of sense:

ijawkid: Infact paul explains who this woman is..to cut it short let's read

Galatians 4:26

English Standard Version (©2001)
But the ""Jerusalem above"" is free, and she is our mother.....while Yahweh is there Father.....

Jerusalem above which is definitly not a literal woman is what gave birth to Gods kingdom with Jesus as its king designate and his co-rulers(the remaining of the womans seed).....

plappville: My bros, i no be prophet ooo, Like bros Ijewkid sated, we must use scripture to match scripture to arrive at not perfect but almost perfect conclusion.
Scripture speaks for scriptures. So let me try to break down my previews comments that brought up all these questions .

If you check in few OT chapters you will see tht "Israel or Jeruselem or Zion mostly represent as a "woman"
See Isaiah 54:1-6, jere 3:20, Eze 16:8-14 also Hosea 2:19-20

In Joseph's vision it was eleven stars, because Joseph was not among them he was the dreamer.
But in the sign with the Revelation woman with twelve stars, Joseph is now included in the other tribes of Israel.

So the woman is Israel while the twelve stars represent the twelve tribes. God uses this symbols to communicate something to us.

We must not forget that John clearly says this is a sign/wonder, so we shouldn't expect this to be literally on earth.
That is why i agreed with @Ijewkid when He said:

The woman cannot also be the church as i used to believe it was, because in regard to the birth of the church.
Christ is the one that gave birth to the church not the other way around. As long as the woman does not point at Mary, she must be Israel.

There are only two who could gave birth to Jesus, Mary or Israel. When you take a deep look at the rest of Reve.. 12,
you will find out that This woman is truelly Israel. Revelation 12 has a great similarity with Joseph's dream.

I know you know quit sure who the Dragon represents. And also the male child, The Angel Michael,
The woman's offspring, and the beast out of the earth, the Beast out of the sea etc..

If u ve something to improve do it please, i welcome a sincere correction comment in this aspect of my life.

i have never head of the word the "Israel above befor" but the word "Jeruselam above" or "heavenly Jeruselam" are what i have have heard befor.

As a bride, am familiar with this :

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2).

Well, you said it is not literal any way.

And this ;

plappville: If you check in few OT chapters you will see tht "Israel or Jeruselem or Zion mostly represent as a "woman"

well, as long as mary is not giving birth twice And in heaven at that. Lol.

Peace.

[quote author= yah]It is what the catholic church want us to believe, and there is no biblical quotation for it.[/quote]if it is not what the bible says why do they command people to follow such?

Will that be the way to life or the way to death?