₦airaland Forum

Why must all people be subject to the catholic church pope to be save?

Why?

plappville: @ijawkid: That was a good one, i think you are on the track, It is sure a symbol. But take a very close look at Joseph and His dream.

"And he "Joseph" dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?" Genesis 37:9,10

Verse 10 of Genesis plainly explains the symbols were Joseph's family: The sun was his father Jacob, the moon was his mother Rachel, and the 11 stars were his brothers "alias the sons of Jacob, tribes of Israel ".

If you take a look at the revelation symbol, and match it with the Genesis 37:9-10, you will see that you are truelly on the track. the woman has nothing to do with "MARY".

Revelation 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

Now that we know what the sun, moon, and 12 stars mean according to Joseph's dream, we can for sure know who the woman of revelation is.

The woman in Revelation is Israel. She wears the very early symbols given to Jacob and the tribes.

A correction is welcome.

my other question below will not be necessary if you answer the question below correctly.

1. Is Israe you mention the literal nation of Israel on earth?

2. Or, is it not the literal Israel?

You may have to explain the following if it is the literal nation of Israel.

1. and the baby?
2. the wilderness?
3. and who was chasing her?
4. The woman/baby taken away for a period of time.

From your summation, if the 12 stars is already = twelve tribes of Israel, it means Israe is already represented, why is the woman said to be Israel again?

Though the woman is not mary, it is necessary that we know if it is earthly or heavenly things we are talking About.

Peace though.

Reyginus: Are you alright?
The last time we checked, you told us the only difference between us and animals is our brain.
I am laughing....
How can the very thing which makes us disimilar be what makes us similar?
Contradiction upon contradiction. Keep refuting yourself.

where then is the human mind?

Low frequency.

italo: Matt 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus is the rock on which the church is build.

ijawkid: Let's be brief...

The woman mentioned in revelation 12:1 who is in heaven definitly isn't a literal woman...rather she is a sign or symbol..revelation 1:1 tells us that...

What she symbolizes is the main wahala here...

Let's start connecting scriptures To find out and not rashly conclude on pagan stands....

In the inspired prophecies ,women at times represent organizations or nations ""married"" to outstanding personalities..

In the hebrew scriptures isreal was spoken of as a wife of Yahweh.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Come back, you rebellious people," declares
the LORD. "I'm your husband. I will take you,
one from every city and two from every
family, and bring you to Zion.
.(Jeremiah 3:14)...
------
In the greek scriptures,the congregation of the annointed christians is spoken of as Christs bride..
New International Version (©1984)
One of the seven angels who had the seven
bowls full of the seven last plagues came and
said to me, "Come, I will show you the ""bride"",
the ""wife"" of the Lamb."
(Revelation 21:9)
---------
We also know about that symbolic woman ""BABYLON the great"" mentioned in the book of revelation...(Revelation 17:3-5)
Babylon the great isn't a literal woman but she represents a group of persons,nations or organizations...
------
The woman john sees in revelation 12:1 is also married to someone,and she is about to give birth..and when she gave birth her child was caught away to God as verse 5 tells us...definitly that symbolic woman must be Gods wife,just as the physical nation of isreal(earthly Jerusalem) was in the past...

This woman gives birth to a son and also has other seeds as revelation 12:17 tells us..

Infact paul explains who this woman is..to cut it short let's read

Galatians 4:26

English Standard Version (©2001)
But the ""Jerusalem above"" is free, and she is our mother.....while Yahweh is there Father.....

Jerusalem above which is definitly not a literal woman is what gave birth to Gods kingdom with Jesus as its king designate and his co-rulers(the remaining of the womans seed).....


----

For you guys to connect revelation 12:1 to mary is actually perplexing...

You might as well tell us when mary ever ran to a literal wilderness to spend 1260 literal days after giving birth to a Son......

If you read through the whole of that chapter you would see that that woman can never be a literal woman talk less of she being Mary......



And for you guys to term that woman as the ""queen of heaven"" ,a pagan term makes me SMH!!!!!......

If you didn't know, mary is part of and under that "Jerusalem above" and not she herself being the ""Jerusalem above""...

For you to think that that woman is Mary ,then we'll have to agree that mary gave birth to Jesus twice.....both on earth here and in heaven.......

Only your type would read this chapter,link it to the pagan ""queen of the heavens"" as you'll usually do,.....

Mary is no such queen...mary isn't a pagan goddess....

Thank you.......

you seem to love this Italio too much to be helping him.

italo: Mary's womb.

ok, good for you.

Hope you are not deceiving your self.

italo: What in God's name do you mean by "Yahweh's heavenly organization" and where did you find that phrase from, the Bible?

So "Yahweh's heavenly organization "cried out in pain" - (Rev 12:2)?
Yahweh's heavenly organization did not include God and his throne which "snatched up" the child when it was born by "Yahweh's heavenly organization" - (verse 5)?
"Yahweh's heavenly organization" fled into the wilderness.(Verse 6)?
Michael and his angels were not part of "Yahweh's heavenly organization" that fled, because they fought against the dragon in heaven. (Verse 7)?
When the dragon was hurled down to earth, he pursued "Yahweh's heavenly organization" (which by now was on earth) again? (Verse 13)?
"Yahweh's heavenly Kingdom" had to flee from to the wilderness again.(Verse 14)?

Is this what you are telling me?

you dont know what the wilderness is?

Lol.

Start learning the truth.

ijawkid: Lol.....

Please read 1 timothy 6....

It will help you....

if you can't see that a pastor using church money to acquire Jets is wrong then you need serious help.....

Jesus and the early apostles never lived such fraudulent lives....

Good job bro.

preshuzpearl: So? Does he force his church members to give him expensive gifts?
Or Is he supposed to sleep under the bridge and eat garbage just cos he is a preacher and does God's work wholeheartedly?
Honestly how people think sometyms really baffle me

it is not how he thinks that baffled you but it is the scriptures he quoted that baffled you.

You were not expecting such kind scriptures. Lol.

No body said that any body should sleep under the bridge, but christians should follow the foot step of christ.

teeo: Now am hearing something new, tithing not for christians?
Maybe when next you say something it wld be you supporting Homosexuals.

so you dont know that Tithing is not for christians but for Jews alone, please read up and update yourself.

teeo: Why are people so confused, who said anything about not working. I work and i tithe thats y am blessed beyound my Salary.

Keep sweating and overlook Gods blessing

i dont think you do a secular kind of work, it should be a pastoral work that you do. The other things you get aside your salary are gift from your church members.

Besides, Tithing is not for christians.

frosbel: There is nothing wrong with gaining wealth from hard work.

The problem is gaining wealth by stealth of the tithe fraud , acquiring mansions, cars and starting businesses with money meant for the work of GOD , fleeced from the sheeple that attend these 'churches'.

Better to struggle and make two ends meet than to be a 'crook who lives in prosperity , derived from the blood and sweat of the poor.

thank you!

Hard work leading to prosperity and having enough for yourself and to give to others in need and not from tith and exploitation.

teeo: God bless u, people are struggling because they have refused to access the free gifts of God.

lies!

If people dont work where will the food Some from?
*Smh*

Joagbaje: You can continue your life of struggle if that's what you believe

NOTHING IS FREE!

Gods blessing are free for those who believe

Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

taaaaa!

The bible says:

"the bible says that him that does not want to work, neither let him eat"

where did you learn your fraud?

Your church members have suffered greatly with this your lies.

Joagbaje: Psalm 35:27
...Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in theprosperity of his servant

Job 36:11 declares of God’s children: "...They shall live their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures."

God has called you to a life of prosperity. You’re not meant to struggle or labour to live a prosperous life; it’s your birthright. If you’d serve the Lord diligently and delight yourself in Him, you’ll live your days in prosperity and your years in pleasures. This is the heritage of every child of God. Not only is prosperity God’s desire for you, it’s been given to you freely as the seed of Abraham. Abraham, the Bible says, was blessed in all things, and so are you

, Galatians 3:29 ,
"And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

You didn’t have to struggle for this blessing; it was bequeathed to you as an inheritance, being an heir of God, and a joint heir with Christ (Romans 8:17). It’s important to realize that prosperity is more than having money. Being rich, wealthy, or affluent is just an aspect of prosperity. Prosperity is all- encompassing; it means to be safe, well and sound; to fare well in life, and to live happily in health, peace, riches and favour! It also means to have an excellent life, and experience wholeness in every aspect of your life being successful in all you do:

"3 John Vs. 2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth" ().

The words of the psalmist in Psalm 1:1-3 further describes the beautiful life of prosperity the Lord has given you:

"…And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper."

Pastor Anita

fraud stars are at it again o!

Christians are to look for God's kingdom and not a promise land like the Jews did.

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:9-10).

They are using the blessing of the past promise land to preach in a world that is passing away:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17).

This is fraudulent.
Prosperity is not the christian goal according to christ:

"Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. " (Matthew 6:30-32).

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. " (Matthew 6:33).

And 3John below is about prospering in the truth of God's word.

"3 John Vs. 2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth" ().

note the full passage
below :

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth." (3 John 1:2-4).

Hmmm!
Wanders shall never end, even here in this forum they are at it

It will not work, unless it is not the bible you wish to use for this your fraud here.

Joagbaje: Ecclesiastes 10:13
The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

Where is Newmi to attend to his runaway Bomboy

@jo

you know nuclear boy knows your girl friend that he said you did that thing with, now you are looking for his trouble he may exposed you in this 2012 o!

Joagbaje: Ecclesiastes 10:13
The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

Where is Newmi to attend to his runaway Bomboy

@jo

you know nuclear boy knows your girl friend that he said you did that thing with, now you are looking for his trouble he may exposed you in this 2012 o!

Joagbaje: It is the tithe eaters who gives impression that , a pastor lives by tithe and all he preaches is tithe. Most pastor do their jobs and businesses . And money that men give in church doesn't belong to pastor.

but he is a signetary to the account. No?

Lenny5000: As the OP I am learning a lot from this thread quiet alright but trust me nobody alive can impose Tithe on me. Though my Pastor believes in Tithe but he rarely preaches it... I had to ask one day if they actually tithe in my Church. My Pastor is a young man about my age, a very friendly guy that works for his Money... He actually adds his personal money to Church stuff when Church money is not enough...so he is not one of those that are after people's money.
Bless

the church is still growing.

It is investment time so he has to thread softly.

When he is up and running in thousands of attendees, try talking to him and see how well you will fair.

Image123: have you read Matthew 23 recently? Jesus has nothing but encouragement for tithes, i will follow Jesus anywhere.

how old are you?

Do you really read your bible?

Pastor Kun: Quite a while, it's been long since i saw your post on NL. Hope you are doing great. As you can see your pharisee friend Image123 is still spewing his poisonous lies.

Logicboy03: You might think that you are doing a good job for your religion.


You turn off christians and others when you continue this crusade against orthodox churches (from which you got your bible).

Everyone can see your intolerance to other christians. What would you do to non christians?

there is nothing wrong with exposing false hood.

teeo: Paul and peter had different views about evangelism. Would u do well to remember Ananias and Sapphira in the bible when they brought money to the house of God.

i thought it was an issue of fear of men that peter had that paul corrected

Can you please educate me on how paul and peter had different views?

Paul was sent to the nations while peter was sent to Jews.

Is it not the same fishers of men?

Please educate i man naa?

teeo: Clap for yourself Ok. Now how do you know what is from God, how grounded are u about the truth from God. Pick ur Bible and read the epistles of paul and read that of peter. They both had different callings, would you say because Peter and Paul didnt agree on all issues that one of them wasnt actually sent of God?

I guess not, ur understanding about a mandate is based on what u have been taught and groomed in. I have read other theologians and their theories, God gives everyone a particular message for a particular set of people. Oyedepo has a mandate built upon faith, prosperity is a sub of that madate. I advise you look for the book "Pillars of destiny"

stories.

teeo: I advise you look for the book "Pillars of destiny"

pls, what version of bible is this?

booqee: ^^lol. I don forget say u be one sef.
Btw, is it even wrong for a pastor to have a job ni?? Why strip ur members of their hardearned money while u sit doing nothing?? A pastor can av a job..can't they??

exactly!

Apostle paul was a tent maker.

nuclearboy: Agbaje will continue losing innocents to truth and knowledge! Kudos to those who really took time to explain the truth here! Bernimoore and Truthislight, those were great posts and of course, Pastor_Kuns and Enigma and of course Zikky remain ever cleansing!

Joagbaje and co are a blight, a curse but they are approaching their ends in the decision making process of people

honestly, may that end comes quickly!

That people no longer depend on them for instructions(deceit)

Sirniyeh: Update:
This morning saturday, exactly a week after the wedding, the bride's mother was in the sitting room with groom trying to appease to him while the groom's father arrived as well. My friend called me and to my arrival, I met the whole house full of commottion. In the course of arguement, the bride exposed the mystery. Hun-un, truly the lady was very decent and reserved but she opened up that her senior blood brother, the first son of their family is responsible for the pregnancy. Wonderful!
How? According to her, she went to her brother's house few months to the wedding day to collect the cheque of N250,000 promised and that day became the day she was deflowered, and her heaven opened.
How the brother carried out the thing was not explained. Now, as a born again sister, should she abort? What of my friend? Should he continue with the marriage and support abortion?
This is a serious case

what is in front is bigger than what has passed.

At least he still has is life clearly in front of him, if he likes let him muddle it up by buying this "trouble".

If the girl had told him when it happened? That will have been a different ball game.

Sirniyeh: the pregnancy has been confirmed but my friend has become imbalance. The question the lady refused to answer is who is responsible for the pregnancy. Their pastor advised that they should not abort, but should the man keep the marriage on?

is there any marriage to keep here ^^^

After prostitution they run to church to catch the unwarry for a mate.

When will service to God ever be a function of love of God?

If it is not a marriage mate it is prosperity.

*sigh*

teeo: Lol, i wish u didnt but it seems you do. Pastormustchopoyaopenurchurch

now, lets break this down.

teeo: Pastor must chop oya open ur church

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Hmm ok, It seems to me that you are now deliberately trying to misunderstand my question but I'll give you the benefit of doubt one more time. . . . .

The issue we have before us is not the interpretation of the parable but the parable itself.

What is a parable? A parable is an analogous story used to explain a more complex phenomenon. It is usually a realistic story that the listener is conversant with and can easily relate to.

Jesus' parables are usually simple stories such as a sower sowing seed. This is a story that the Jews can easily relate to because they are familiar with it. The same applies for a son who leaves his father and squanders his money, a wedding feast e.t.c. All these are simple stories that the 1st century Jew can easily relate to because they are part of what he knows. Jesus then goes on to give a greater meaning to a very simple story by relating it to a much bigger picture i.e. God's kingdom.

Now this is the dilemma you face. You lot claim that the concept of conscious torment after death is alien to scripture and it doesn't even exist. The question now becomes: Why would Jesus use a story that does not exist i.e. a story that his audience cannot possibly even begin to relate to in order to explain a greater truth?

I still maintain that the Jews were very aware of the concept of conscious torment after death in the same way that they were very aware of the concept of a sower sowing seeds. It was a normal everyday understanding for them that evil people will suffer after death while the righteous will be comforted after death. . . . .and Jesus Christ obviously held the same.

In every argument, you can escape the truth if you pay a high enough price. For this one, the price would be to say that Christ didn't know what He was talking about. That's the steep price I'm afraid you will have to pay for you to properly deny torment of the sinner after physical death.
I truly hope that for your sakes, you are not comfortable paying this price.[/quote]@Anony

if this was not a pareble directing at the rich religiouse leaders of Jesus day that rejected him and the poor ordinary Jews of his day, why did he not say the wicked and lazarus?

This pareble addresses the rejection of the rich religiouse pharisees and their permanent rejection by God of their system (as shown by the fire) while they are still alive they suffer torment as a result of this rejection,

while alive the poor lazarus was now the fevoured ones enjoying the blesing of the promise to Abraham.

This same religious pharisees had earlier been cursed by Jesus with fire:

"And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:30-33).

But this pareble is comparable of two set of people and the shift of God's favour while they are alive.

The issues in this pareble is on the following of CHRIST, Abraham seed and getting the blessing of Abraham.

In no way is Jesus saying that all rich men will be burnt in fire.

Neither is christ saying that all poor men are going to heaven.

Will that mean that the "sin" that determine heaven and fire is money? No.

Reading the book of acts of the apostle we see the anguish that the pharisees went through as a result of the rejection they got by the christian apostle that preach about christ and people accepted christ as the way to God. They became very bitter.

Fire we know is a symbol of everlasting rejection/destruction. The rejection of the religiouse pharisees and form of worship was final.

The way to gaining Abraham blessing is christ that the poor (lazarus) was following.

Reyginus: Pagan!?
This is ridiculous. We still have a long way before we commence.
So animals dont have brains? Chai. Wayo allah na.
For the benefit of doubt, what is in the CNS of man lacking in that of beasts?
Brother you err.
The breath of the living soul into man is not an evidence for the nature of man, it tells little of our component. The aim is to tell what made man tick.
And why the name calling bro?

your brain/mind and that of and animal is the same(no insult meant)

i wander why king nebuchadnezzar ran into the bush when he was given the mind of a beast though still in human form if the human mind is not the differnce

italo: "If it was not a straight forward thing..."

You don't know about it, yet you are making accusations instead of being quiet about it and learning.

What kind of "christians" are you people?

where did the son/baby came from?

Is it not a very simple question?

Lol. Pope Italio indeed.

chukwudi44: To think that this is comming from someone who only a few days ago opened a thread where he advocated christians should not be bashing each other.

This is the height of hypocrisy!!!!

^^^

that will really make you happy, since it will not exposed your wickedness and lies.

"By their fruit ye shall know them"

chukwudi44: For the umpteenth time I have told you that constantine had no hand in the compilation of the bible yet you are so adamant.worse still you have refused to debate the topic.

who gave you the authority to warn Anybody on this forum?

This is an open forum and all are free to air their views all you can do is make your case.

See you acting like your mother RCC.

If you have your way you will kill him like your mother RCC did to people in the dark ages.

Roasting people alive for just having the bible.

Like mother like son.